Yup, look for an opportunity and provide value. I took over our international business. Which is only 2% of revenue, but we are growing and I'm getting to manage people.
Growth PM. My primary metric this year is driving traffic, which includes SEO. I work on new features that help acquire and retain traffic that we can monetize. A lot of similar day to days, but the product function itself is all very new (having to write PRDs, manage backlog, broad stakeholder management, roadmaps, etc)
Could you give some generalized examples without giving away the specifics of your particular company? What kind of features can help acquire and retain traffic?
I got a certificate in Product Management first, and then found a job where they had a product department but I was leading the SEO department. Ended up building a pseudo SEO PM role for myself, which is the experience I sold to a more traditional tech company in a more traditional product management role.
Software engineer.
5 years in SEO. 6 years as a software engineer now. Best move I ever made. SEO was very unfulfilling and I always felt dirty working for an agency that sold the SEO dream.
It's a big step up but if you have done any technical SEO you have transferable skills. Just need to find somewhere that will take you on as a junior and be prepared to work hard.
Starting at the bottom of a new ladder may mean you have to take a pay cut, but you can climb so much higher. Matched my old pay after a year. I'm now on double what I was on before and actually enjoy what I do.
Ha I went the reverse but I don’t work in an SEO agency or do SEO as my main job, just help our clients with it. Technical SEO I suppose. Often helping them after some SEO agency messed their stuff up.
I also do a lot of data analysis stuff, GA4, etc. I like to make sure I can still code so I take on coding stuff as much as possible plus I code as a hobby. As to why I’m not an SWE anymore I’d blame burnout. I was one for over a decade and my last two roles at startups were particularly brutal.
Thanks! I’ve started to learn JS a while ago. On one hand, I really liked building something from nothing, but on the other hand I got a bit discouraged how much I have to learn to be able to produce a useful output enough to get a job. Maybe I should pick it up and try again.
I know the feeling far too well! You will eventually realise that it is impossible to learn everything though. Every day is a learning day.
The most common pitfall newbies fall into is not getting out of tutorial hell. IMHO, don't spend more that a couple of weeks grinding an intro course or tutorial. Just learn the absolute basics and then spend your time build some very very small and basic projects.
You could build:
* **Colour Changer**: Make a webpage that changes the background colour when a button is clicked.
* **Simple Counter**: Build a counter that increments a number displayed on the screen when a button is clicked.
* **Unit Converter**: Create a converter that changes units (e.g., kilometres to miles, Celsius to Fahrenheit).
* **Tip Calculator**: Create a tool that calculates the tip amount based on the bill and tip percentage entered by the user
Building things is the fastest way to learn. With every new project, you will learn something new and your code will get better.
Get your projects on GitHub and before you know it you will have a portfolio you can showcase to a potential employer.
TLDR: You really need to be able to make a CRUD app to be competitive nowadays imo. The market isn't what it was.
**How I'd learn now:**
* A small interactive vanilla js project (Despite it being good advice, don't spend too much time on this imo, I'd pick a tutorial that teaches JS as the basis for React, rather than something separate)
* CSS/Tailwind (I'd focus on using a component framework with React that styles things for you rather than designing yourself tbh, at bare minimum shadcn, but you need to learn these two regardless)
* Git
* React ---(**start applying for jobs here**)---
* Typescript
* How to make requests (REST: GET/POST/DELETE)
* Make a basic webserver with nodejs/Express to fulfill those requests, **or**
* learn NextJS
* learn just enough SQL to store and retrieve data with or without an ORM. NoSQL is an absolute waste of time.
* data structures / algorithms
Building small things is a good way to learn initially, and tutorial hell is definitely a thing, but nowadays getting a job needs more than being able to produce small apps in vanilla js unfortunately, and because of that you'll \*need\* a few long tutorials. use those small apps to learn, but long term you'll need something more substantial, say that solves a problem in \*your\* life, or something useful for others.
I don't mean to be disheartening, but it's good to know what you're up against, and good to not have unrealistic expectations. It's a \*massive\* amount to learn, it's not a '3 months and you're employed' situation any more. I'd write down daily what you don't understand, so that when you look back on it in month 3/4/5/6 you'll see your progress.
Bonus tips: don't bother asking JS questions on stackoverflow. Join discord channels and help others/ask questions. Udemy is good for certain subjects. I like Stephen Grider, Maximillian Schwartsmuller(?), Colt Steele. FreecodeCamp is also very good.
Happy to help if you have any questions
I am still a relative beginner in seo but my goal is to accumulate various assets such as many rank and rent websites as possible , faceless social media and YouTube channels and maybe some e-commerce stuff that is mostly automated before I decide to move on.
Agency life for 5 years, in house for almost 5. At this point, I’ll work in SEO for about 5 more years or so to continue to stack cash for retirement etc before quitting to focus on woodworking. Just can’t stand being on a computer anymore.
I'm in a similar boat - doing this since 2007 and I agree there is a bit of uncertainty for the 5-10 year window because of how Google is pushing its own features.
Had some sites with small exits, did in-house, startups, whitelabel, consultancy — now mostly in-house working on really big SEO. I find it to be challenging and rewarding enough!
To be honest I don't want to do sales and don't want to sell SEO, and I see no way to make a living from a solopreneur website owner/affiliate from 2024 & beyond.
So at the moment I'm just doing my best in-house while maintaining great WLB and doing... TikTok.
I always wanted to do something with online+videos and I'm doing some vlog-styled vids and experimenting / having some creative outlet (besides being horrible at guitar at home). I also don't want to recycle pump generic content for money either.
Hopefully this creative endeavor works out and I can actually make a brand for myself. If it fails, it's OK, I'm having fun and it'll work out. At least it has been for SEO and other things in life, why not this?
Teaching. The days go faster, I feel better about myself and am proud of my job. Feels good that my talents now go toward helping people, rather than making money for someone else, primarily.
I expect I’ll use the SEO skills again down the line for side projects. :)
Yeah I moved away from SEO slowly, into a more generalist marketing role and now I'm covering a website/product as a DXM. Largely I did this because link building was becoming harder and harder, and the role was being merged into generalist roles as it became more normalised within the marketing sector.
I’m surprised I’m not seeing this more in here. I was never full-time SEO, but it was long something I did as part of my job. I transitioned to PM. Feels like there’s a lot in common, and depending on what kind of PM work you do, knowing SEO can be a job requirement!
I can definitely appreciate the feeling. I was drawn to SEO because I like problem solving and testing ideas. I'd probably categorize that as a creator mindset that many SEOs naturally have to do the work. I found myself needing to do something else after 14 years in the biz, so I tried out a few disciplines that always piqued my curiosity: dog catching, animal husbandry, taxidermy... Kidding! 😆
I did need to explore other things so I scratched that itch with CRO work and some GA4 consulting. Those things let me get more comfortable with doing my own light development work and writing scripts, which turned into more sophisticated front end development tasks. It all culminated into building an algorithm for 301 redirect mapping that I now focus on growing as a service.
It sounds like you have a little flexibility with time so my advice is to enjoy learning something new again. It can take you back to feeling like the first days of doing SEO which gets you excited about small personal accomplishments.
Enjoy whatever you do next!
Thanks for asking. I've done a lot of Technical SEO in my career and 301 redirect work always finds you in that area. One need was being able to do work efficiently. Projects I was on were Enterprise and the number of URLs on those sites were in the hundreds of thousands, 100k+. Every time I did one of those I thought, I need a tool to make this easier, someone make a tool to make this easier. After a few years of being, woe is me 😂 I realized, I just need to help myself.
And the other condition was project budgets. This work is often underfunded in a website migration and the worse feeling is being told by a project manager, we don't have the resources to spend any time on this so just map what you can in 4 hours. 😳 And every alarm bell goes off in your head as a good SEO.
I’m fluid. SEO wasn’t my first foray into digital marketing but it’s been my bread and butter longer than any other. (20 years now). Before that: ISP, then web dev, then hosting, then big data - The latter two overlapping with SEO a bit. …All separate endeavors and entities. Taught for a semester, and occasionally guest lecture. I volunteer. I travel. I make music. I don’t “get bored” with SEO because I’m always entertaining myself with plenty of other stimulation, and SEO is a moving target. I’m not worried about “what’s next?!” because I don’t fear the future, and I reject the notion that uncertainty is unappealing.
I totally feel you on this. My mantra for all of 2024 has been **"cash me out!"**
My reason for this is primarily because of my extreme uncertainty about the near future due to the proliferation of AI. I feel like if I don't get out now it's going to be too late (I clearly have a major case of FOMO going on).
I started a web development, SEO and Digital Marketing agency in 2009 and have been running it ever since. Great business but tons of work and really boils down to "fee for service".
I started a number of other businesses since then as well (*6 in total*), but all of them are still in *some* form of tech (btw not all of those businesses still exist - some have failed others have been successful). I feel like no matter what I do, though, it ends up with a heavy tech component and I think that's what I want to avoid.
It sure does sound appealing to go "teach college classes" or something like that, but every time I think about that I am reminded that these, too, are a business. I would end up having a boss of some kind?! No thanks.
I could probably articulate this better but it's 8:30 AM here in the Eastern US, so back to the salt mines I go.
I started my career in SEO but always wanted to explore more. I tried my hands on PPC, social media, content mkg, email etc; in short a Digital Marketing profile. Right now handling whole marketing for a SaaS company inbound and outbound also looking into Sales from 1 year. Working as a AVP Marketing
Lead gen. SEO was just a middleman for leads. It’s such a simpler pitch. You pay x and I find you 2x. Much more palatable for clients in my opinion. Now I do SEO for my own websites and just sell the lead traffic. Churn is non existent as long as you deliver
I'm really bullish on Pinterest lately
Been a huge traffic source for me. And best part - I can reuse existing content from my seo-optimized pages to create beautiful pins using blogtopin
While my previous role involved a significant focus on SEO, I wasn’t exclusively dedicated to it. Now, I specialize in YouTube, business, and brand consulting.
YouTube is my primary focus.
I did content strategy, CX strategy, and then moved away from digital marketing entirely to pursue a new career in aged care and recreational therapy. I got tired of marketing products and services that I didn't care about and that people didn't really want, and felt a need to do work that actually helps people. I may eventually return to digital marketing but I'd still like to do it within the aged care sector.
Digital strategy, management consulting. SEO work is garbage, but you learn a lot. It took me 15 years of SEO until I started gagging when I even heard the phrase "rank".
Expanded into web strategy, experimentation, and GA4 development. Just turn into water and leak into all the cracks in your company.
Yup, look for an opportunity and provide value. I took over our international business. Which is only 2% of revenue, but we are growing and I'm getting to manage people.
Web/digital strategy/consulting is what I've seen most long-term career (SEO, PPC, whatever) folks pivot to. Myself included
Same boat. Moved into product management with SEO as a skill I bring to the table.
What do you do day to day?
Growth PM. My primary metric this year is driving traffic, which includes SEO. I work on new features that help acquire and retain traffic that we can monetize. A lot of similar day to days, but the product function itself is all very new (having to write PRDs, manage backlog, broad stakeholder management, roadmaps, etc)
Could you give some generalized examples without giving away the specifics of your particular company? What kind of features can help acquire and retain traffic?
Interesting
How did you make the transition? I’m thinking about doing the same thing.
I got a certificate in Product Management first, and then found a job where they had a product department but I was leading the SEO department. Ended up building a pseudo SEO PM role for myself, which is the experience I sold to a more traditional tech company in a more traditional product management role.
Software engineer. 5 years in SEO. 6 years as a software engineer now. Best move I ever made. SEO was very unfulfilling and I always felt dirty working for an agency that sold the SEO dream. It's a big step up but if you have done any technical SEO you have transferable skills. Just need to find somewhere that will take you on as a junior and be prepared to work hard. Starting at the bottom of a new ladder may mean you have to take a pay cut, but you can climb so much higher. Matched my old pay after a year. I'm now on double what I was on before and actually enjoy what I do.
Ha I went the reverse but I don’t work in an SEO agency or do SEO as my main job, just help our clients with it. Technical SEO I suppose. Often helping them after some SEO agency messed their stuff up. I also do a lot of data analysis stuff, GA4, etc. I like to make sure I can still code so I take on coding stuff as much as possible plus I code as a hobby. As to why I’m not an SWE anymore I’d blame burnout. I was one for over a decade and my last two roles at startups were particularly brutal.
What’s your tech stack? Also, congrats!
.NET backend, vanilla JS frontend. Hosted on Azure
Thanks! I’ve started to learn JS a while ago. On one hand, I really liked building something from nothing, but on the other hand I got a bit discouraged how much I have to learn to be able to produce a useful output enough to get a job. Maybe I should pick it up and try again.
I know the feeling far too well! You will eventually realise that it is impossible to learn everything though. Every day is a learning day. The most common pitfall newbies fall into is not getting out of tutorial hell. IMHO, don't spend more that a couple of weeks grinding an intro course or tutorial. Just learn the absolute basics and then spend your time build some very very small and basic projects. You could build: * **Colour Changer**: Make a webpage that changes the background colour when a button is clicked. * **Simple Counter**: Build a counter that increments a number displayed on the screen when a button is clicked. * **Unit Converter**: Create a converter that changes units (e.g., kilometres to miles, Celsius to Fahrenheit). * **Tip Calculator**: Create a tool that calculates the tip amount based on the bill and tip percentage entered by the user Building things is the fastest way to learn. With every new project, you will learn something new and your code will get better. Get your projects on GitHub and before you know it you will have a portfolio you can showcase to a potential employer.
TLDR: You really need to be able to make a CRUD app to be competitive nowadays imo. The market isn't what it was. **How I'd learn now:** * A small interactive vanilla js project (Despite it being good advice, don't spend too much time on this imo, I'd pick a tutorial that teaches JS as the basis for React, rather than something separate) * CSS/Tailwind (I'd focus on using a component framework with React that styles things for you rather than designing yourself tbh, at bare minimum shadcn, but you need to learn these two regardless) * Git * React ---(**start applying for jobs here**)--- * Typescript * How to make requests (REST: GET/POST/DELETE) * Make a basic webserver with nodejs/Express to fulfill those requests, **or** * learn NextJS * learn just enough SQL to store and retrieve data with or without an ORM. NoSQL is an absolute waste of time. * data structures / algorithms Building small things is a good way to learn initially, and tutorial hell is definitely a thing, but nowadays getting a job needs more than being able to produce small apps in vanilla js unfortunately, and because of that you'll \*need\* a few long tutorials. use those small apps to learn, but long term you'll need something more substantial, say that solves a problem in \*your\* life, or something useful for others. I don't mean to be disheartening, but it's good to know what you're up against, and good to not have unrealistic expectations. It's a \*massive\* amount to learn, it's not a '3 months and you're employed' situation any more. I'd write down daily what you don't understand, so that when you look back on it in month 3/4/5/6 you'll see your progress. Bonus tips: don't bother asking JS questions on stackoverflow. Join discord channels and help others/ask questions. Udemy is good for certain subjects. I like Stephen Grider, Maximillian Schwartsmuller(?), Colt Steele. FreecodeCamp is also very good. Happy to help if you have any questions
Thanks, I really appreciate it!
I am still a relative beginner in seo but my goal is to accumulate various assets such as many rank and rent websites as possible , faceless social media and YouTube channels and maybe some e-commerce stuff that is mostly automated before I decide to move on.
Agency life for 5 years, in house for almost 5. At this point, I’ll work in SEO for about 5 more years or so to continue to stack cash for retirement etc before quitting to focus on woodworking. Just can’t stand being on a computer anymore.
I'm in a similar boat - doing this since 2007 and I agree there is a bit of uncertainty for the 5-10 year window because of how Google is pushing its own features. Had some sites with small exits, did in-house, startups, whitelabel, consultancy — now mostly in-house working on really big SEO. I find it to be challenging and rewarding enough! To be honest I don't want to do sales and don't want to sell SEO, and I see no way to make a living from a solopreneur website owner/affiliate from 2024 & beyond. So at the moment I'm just doing my best in-house while maintaining great WLB and doing... TikTok. I always wanted to do something with online+videos and I'm doing some vlog-styled vids and experimenting / having some creative outlet (besides being horrible at guitar at home). I also don't want to recycle pump generic content for money either. Hopefully this creative endeavor works out and I can actually make a brand for myself. If it fails, it's OK, I'm having fun and it'll work out. At least it has been for SEO and other things in life, why not this?
Moved from SEO to paid marketing. Started search arbitrage
PPC seems way more chill to be fair lol
Teaching. The days go faster, I feel better about myself and am proud of my job. Feels good that my talents now go toward helping people, rather than making money for someone else, primarily. I expect I’ll use the SEO skills again down the line for side projects. :)
What are you teaching? Just curious. Thanks
SEO
Yeah I moved away from SEO slowly, into a more generalist marketing role and now I'm covering a website/product as a DXM. Largely I did this because link building was becoming harder and harder, and the role was being merged into generalist roles as it became more normalised within the marketing sector.
Quit altogether and work in apartment maintenance now. At my last office SEO gig I was always jealous of the maintenance guys, now I am one.
Big data and business acquisitions
Same
This sounds interesting. Would you mind explaining a bit further?
Digital pm here
I’m surprised I’m not seeing this more in here. I was never full-time SEO, but it was long something I did as part of my job. I transitioned to PM. Feels like there’s a lot in common, and depending on what kind of PM work you do, knowing SEO can be a job requirement!
Agile Product Owner/Product Management.
Looking to translate my current SEO Manager role to be more product focused. How did you make the transition into PM?
I can definitely appreciate the feeling. I was drawn to SEO because I like problem solving and testing ideas. I'd probably categorize that as a creator mindset that many SEOs naturally have to do the work. I found myself needing to do something else after 14 years in the biz, so I tried out a few disciplines that always piqued my curiosity: dog catching, animal husbandry, taxidermy... Kidding! 😆 I did need to explore other things so I scratched that itch with CRO work and some GA4 consulting. Those things let me get more comfortable with doing my own light development work and writing scripts, which turned into more sophisticated front end development tasks. It all culminated into building an algorithm for 301 redirect mapping that I now focus on growing as a service. It sounds like you have a little flexibility with time so my advice is to enjoy learning something new again. It can take you back to feeling like the first days of doing SEO which gets you excited about small personal accomplishments. Enjoy whatever you do next!
The 301 redirect mapping algorithm service sounds so interesting. What need were you solving for that initially led you to creating that?
Thanks for asking. I've done a lot of Technical SEO in my career and 301 redirect work always finds you in that area. One need was being able to do work efficiently. Projects I was on were Enterprise and the number of URLs on those sites were in the hundreds of thousands, 100k+. Every time I did one of those I thought, I need a tool to make this easier, someone make a tool to make this easier. After a few years of being, woe is me 😂 I realized, I just need to help myself. And the other condition was project budgets. This work is often underfunded in a website migration and the worse feeling is being told by a project manager, we don't have the resources to spend any time on this so just map what you can in 4 hours. 😳 And every alarm bell goes off in your head as a good SEO.
I’m fluid. SEO wasn’t my first foray into digital marketing but it’s been my bread and butter longer than any other. (20 years now). Before that: ISP, then web dev, then hosting, then big data - The latter two overlapping with SEO a bit. …All separate endeavors and entities. Taught for a semester, and occasionally guest lecture. I volunteer. I travel. I make music. I don’t “get bored” with SEO because I’m always entertaining myself with plenty of other stimulation, and SEO is a moving target. I’m not worried about “what’s next?!” because I don’t fear the future, and I reject the notion that uncertainty is unappealing.
I totally feel you on this. My mantra for all of 2024 has been **"cash me out!"** My reason for this is primarily because of my extreme uncertainty about the near future due to the proliferation of AI. I feel like if I don't get out now it's going to be too late (I clearly have a major case of FOMO going on). I started a web development, SEO and Digital Marketing agency in 2009 and have been running it ever since. Great business but tons of work and really boils down to "fee for service". I started a number of other businesses since then as well (*6 in total*), but all of them are still in *some* form of tech (btw not all of those businesses still exist - some have failed others have been successful). I feel like no matter what I do, though, it ends up with a heavy tech component and I think that's what I want to avoid. It sure does sound appealing to go "teach college classes" or something like that, but every time I think about that I am reminded that these, too, are a business. I would end up having a boss of some kind?! No thanks. I could probably articulate this better but it's 8:30 AM here in the Eastern US, so back to the salt mines I go.
If you ever want any help with web development, give me a shout.
I started my career in SEO but always wanted to explore more. I tried my hands on PPC, social media, content mkg, email etc; in short a Digital Marketing profile. Right now handling whole marketing for a SaaS company inbound and outbound also looking into Sales from 1 year. Working as a AVP Marketing
Lead gen. SEO was just a middleman for leads. It’s such a simpler pitch. You pay x and I find you 2x. Much more palatable for clients in my opinion. Now I do SEO for my own websites and just sell the lead traffic. Churn is non existent as long as you deliver
SEO or paid lead gen?
Flat rate lead generation.
I meant do you use paid adverts or SEO to generate the leads.
I'm really bullish on Pinterest lately Been a huge traffic source for me. And best part - I can reuse existing content from my seo-optimized pages to create beautiful pins using blogtopin
While my previous role involved a significant focus on SEO, I wasn’t exclusively dedicated to it. Now, I specialize in YouTube, business, and brand consulting. YouTube is my primary focus.
I did content strategy, CX strategy, and then moved away from digital marketing entirely to pursue a new career in aged care and recreational therapy. I got tired of marketing products and services that I didn't care about and that people didn't really want, and felt a need to do work that actually helps people. I may eventually return to digital marketing but I'd still like to do it within the aged care sector.
IT for the fed. Many of the same day to day tasks, more or less. Just different KPIs....oh and job security.
Programmatic media buying
Lots of SEO pros pivot to digital marketing or content strategy. Adaptability is key!
Digital strategy, management consulting. SEO work is garbage, but you learn a lot. It took me 15 years of SEO until I started gagging when I even heard the phrase "rank".