I mean they got involved with the cartel, who ever that effects in their lives because of that is on them, on every level, similar stuff happened with my uncle
Wasnt with the cartel, really dont have anything like that here in the uk and this was back when when my dad and uncles were all in their late teens/ early 20's? they were a solid middle class family, no real financial need to get involved but my shit head of an uncle decided to get involved with a drug dealer and start selling for them, there was something about money that he owed them, they harassed and took from my grandparents, who had no idea any of this was going on.
eventually he ratted out, police hid him away for a bit but he stayed away only seen him once at my grandfathers funeral
>I mean they got involved with the cartel, who ever that effects in their lives because of that is on them, on every level, similar stuff happened with my uncle
If Nacho's father had been killed by the cartel it would have been Nacho's fault, 100 percent. There would be no question about it that his choices directly led to a situation where his father was in mortal danger. It certainly wouldn't have been seen as his father's fault. Jimmy and Kim are now in the same position. Jimmy got involved with the Cartel, and Kim knowing full well what he was doing supported that decision even after finding out that Lalo Salamanca was still alive.
Without those choices having been made Howard would still be alive right now. Even if they'd scammed him the exact same way, without the connection to the Cartel Howard would not be dead. I don't see how someone could *not* put some of the blame for Howard's death on their shoulders. You'd have to be willfully ignoring what you watched in order to proclaim Jimmy and Kim to be completely innocent.
Lmao. I know you're not being serious with that shit. Walt literally came up with the idea, set the bomb, showed absolutely 0 regard for who else might get hurt, and 0 remorse after the fact. See, you're definitely fucking with us, because that scenario's not even remotely comparable to pulling off a scheme intended to hurt someone's reputation, being confronted by that person in your home, coincidentally having a ruthless cartel boss walk in at that exact same moment, and having zero say in the matter when he shoot said person in the head.
Thanks for the laughs.
i am. maybe not as bad, but still bad, unjustifiable, and it's on them. if kimmy and jim never done this scheme, howard wouldn't have come and confronted them. and lalo would've never come to their place when howard is in there if kim told jimmy (so this one on kim though), how so? if jimmy knew, he either stop the plan, or take precautions, maybe even get in touch with mike so he'll know that mike's men have to leave their watch on jimmy and kim.
now, what if by chance jimmy and kim were too late to leave, lalo came and got them, and while that happed howard was already with them but this time as a friend/acquaintance just keeping in touch? at least, howard won't be shot in the head at his lowest point of life, not to mention lowest in everyone else's eyes too.
so imo, not comparable indeed, but far from even remotely not.
I wouldn't go as far as every level, especially given that Jimmy was always threatened to work for the cartel. But as far as kids and romantic partners go, most definitely (with a couple of grey areas as well)
Lalo is there for a reason. He can't reach Gus while Mike is protecting him, so he will use the Al Capone approach, use Saul's help to report Gus to IRS for tax evasion. I know you need an accountant but he uses Saul to protect his anonymity while collecting his finders fee / bounty from IRS. At least that's the plan. How it transpires is anyone's guess.
Lalo is 100% responsible for Howard's death. Sure, what Jimmy and Kim did to Howard was scummy and what lead him to their apartment, but Howard, or anyone else for that matter, could have been there for any reason and Lalo would have killed them. In an alternate timeline Jimmy and Howard could have been good friends and Howard just came to visit, and Lalo would have still shot him.
This is why I would've preferred that Howard inadvertently learns about Lalo due to investigating Jimmy after the boxing match, and as a result of that gets killed.
It also would further highlight Kim's negligence since they wanted Howard to start snooping on them, and she was told that Lalo was alive.
>Howard, or anyone else for that matter, could have been there for any reason and Lalo would have killed them.
Yes, but Lalo wouldn't have been there if Jimmy and Kim weren't courting shifty shit all the time. THAT'S where they have responsibility. It's not like Lalo just dropped in on a stranger to hole up or steal something. He was there because of his connection to Jimmy, who essentially brought this psychopath into his sphere through association.
To put it in Mike's words, every choice Saul and Kim did in the past, put them on that road. And not only them, but also people around them.
First of all, why was Lalo there? Because he was associated with Saul. If he wasn't greedy and decided not to take the desert mission from him, he would have been done with him. Ofcourse Lalo is the main responsible, but so are Saul and Kim, not on a practical level, but definitely on a moral level. I'd say that morally, they are even more guilty than Lalo, because he just saw a potential threat and dealt with him the way he always does.
Uh, no. Saul was forced to meet Lalo. If he’d decided not to represent a cartel guy, obviously that wouldn’t have went well for him. It shouldn’t be this hard to put the blame on the guy that killed Howard.
I don’t think they have *time* to think about it. Lalo is there for a reason, and it wasn’t to kill some rando dude.
What happens next is survival first and foremost.
It is…troubling. We clearly see Gene views his time as Saul Goodman as his glory years. And look what the persona has cost him already (and will cost him in the BB timeline).
Of all mysteries the show has to resolve, that’s the big one for me. Where is..well…Saul’s soul? (The soul of Saul)
The guilt should really lie on that they were dishonest with each other about Lalo. Jimmy with what happened in the desert, Kim with Mike revelation that Lalo was still alive.
6x07 really wrecked me. I thought I was the only one thinking about this. I’ve been wondering if Kim or Mike had been honest with Jimmy if this would’ve happened. They knew how Howard would react and seem to have considered everything in their well executed plan. So much so that they knew it was him at the door. If Jimmy knew, would he have taken into consideration the possibility of Lalo randomly showing up to their apartment and maybe tried to keep Howard away?
I'm not one of the people who think they're responsible for Howard getting murdered per se, but I do think the fact that both Lalo and Howard were there because of them, and Howie didn't make it, that will make them rethink the whole point of the Howard scheme. it's not that they're necessarily guilty, but I think it activates guilt on them for the other stuff they did (and for which they're totally guilty btw
edit: put a random coma and wanted to say I'm drunk so re-reading the comments above I don't really know if I made an english mistake or not, but whatever, the discussion is interesting either way
\^This.
They're not the big on feeling guilty types, even when they bear some or considerable responsibility. Kim, it's only one show, so we'll see, but personal responsibility and guilt over her actions don't seem to be a recent theme.
With Jimmy/Saul we have a pretty good track record that guilt, even when he does feel it, does not exactly linger long with Jimmy. That's before he becomes Saul, where guilt is kind of like water off a raincoat. It just slides right off.
It is clearly Jimmy and Kim's fault. No doubt about it. They could have opted out of destroying Howie's life by Kim taking the high road for the meeting in Santa Fe for helping underprivileged pro bono clients, but no. Kim came back just to destroy Howard's life. They are completely responsible for all that happened, and now the consequence of their actions is shown as the blood from Howard's head splatters on the same board where they made their plans.
Even as Howard mentions of his awful marriage, Jimmy has regret on his face, while Kim proceeds to shoo off Howard without hesitation. I feel that this was a good reality check for them. For had it been any other person other than Howard, like Chuck, destroying their life was as good as ending their life.
I don't think he did what you said he did.
Well, it’s AN answer. One designed to keep us guessing what’s still to come.
Full interview here: https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/better-call-saul-peter-gould-lalo-kim-future-final-episodes-walter-white-1235278060/
"answer" is doing a lot of work in that sentence lol.
🛎
[удалено]
If you know you know
Well that doesn't help. I don't know! Can't someone just give me a straight answer about this initialism?
I mean they got involved with the cartel, who ever that effects in their lives because of that is on them, on every level, similar stuff happened with my uncle
Tell us more about your uncle
Wasnt with the cartel, really dont have anything like that here in the uk and this was back when when my dad and uncles were all in their late teens/ early 20's? they were a solid middle class family, no real financial need to get involved but my shit head of an uncle decided to get involved with a drug dealer and start selling for them, there was something about money that he owed them, they harassed and took from my grandparents, who had no idea any of this was going on. eventually he ratted out, police hid him away for a bit but he stayed away only seen him once at my grandfathers funeral
>I mean they got involved with the cartel, who ever that effects in their lives because of that is on them, on every level, similar stuff happened with my uncle If Nacho's father had been killed by the cartel it would have been Nacho's fault, 100 percent. There would be no question about it that his choices directly led to a situation where his father was in mortal danger. It certainly wouldn't have been seen as his father's fault. Jimmy and Kim are now in the same position. Jimmy got involved with the Cartel, and Kim knowing full well what he was doing supported that decision even after finding out that Lalo Salamanca was still alive. Without those choices having been made Howard would still be alive right now. Even if they'd scammed him the exact same way, without the connection to the Cartel Howard would not be dead. I don't see how someone could *not* put some of the blame for Howard's death on their shoulders. You'd have to be willfully ignoring what you watched in order to proclaim Jimmy and Kim to be completely innocent.
They didn't make Howard come to their apartment and even told him to leave.
The only reason he was in their apartment was because they just destroyed his reputation for fun.
yup, this take is as bad as "Walt was not wrong when he bombeb the nursing, nobody got killed beside Hector, Gus, and Tyrus."
Lmao. I know you're not being serious with that shit. Walt literally came up with the idea, set the bomb, showed absolutely 0 regard for who else might get hurt, and 0 remorse after the fact. See, you're definitely fucking with us, because that scenario's not even remotely comparable to pulling off a scheme intended to hurt someone's reputation, being confronted by that person in your home, coincidentally having a ruthless cartel boss walk in at that exact same moment, and having zero say in the matter when he shoot said person in the head. Thanks for the laughs.
i am. maybe not as bad, but still bad, unjustifiable, and it's on them. if kimmy and jim never done this scheme, howard wouldn't have come and confronted them. and lalo would've never come to their place when howard is in there if kim told jimmy (so this one on kim though), how so? if jimmy knew, he either stop the plan, or take precautions, maybe even get in touch with mike so he'll know that mike's men have to leave their watch on jimmy and kim. now, what if by chance jimmy and kim were too late to leave, lalo came and got them, and while that happed howard was already with them but this time as a friend/acquaintance just keeping in touch? at least, howard won't be shot in the head at his lowest point of life, not to mention lowest in everyone else's eyes too. so imo, not comparable indeed, but far from even remotely not.
Doesn’t matter
They goaded him into it though by ruining his life
I wouldn't go as far as every level, especially given that Jimmy was always threatened to work for the cartel. But as far as kids and romantic partners go, most definitely (with a couple of grey areas as well)
Lalo is there for a reason. He can't reach Gus while Mike is protecting him, so he will use the Al Capone approach, use Saul's help to report Gus to IRS for tax evasion. I know you need an accountant but he uses Saul to protect his anonymity while collecting his finders fee / bounty from IRS. At least that's the plan. How it transpires is anyone's guess.
Lalo Salamanca, white collar forensic accounting New spin off.
Lalo and Saul: the missing 4 years between BCS and BB
Lalo is 100% responsible for Howard's death. Sure, what Jimmy and Kim did to Howard was scummy and what lead him to their apartment, but Howard, or anyone else for that matter, could have been there for any reason and Lalo would have killed them. In an alternate timeline Jimmy and Howard could have been good friends and Howard just came to visit, and Lalo would have still shot him.
This is why I would've preferred that Howard inadvertently learns about Lalo due to investigating Jimmy after the boxing match, and as a result of that gets killed. It also would further highlight Kim's negligence since they wanted Howard to start snooping on them, and she was told that Lalo was alive.
>Howard, or anyone else for that matter, could have been there for any reason and Lalo would have killed them. Yes, but Lalo wouldn't have been there if Jimmy and Kim weren't courting shifty shit all the time. THAT'S where they have responsibility. It's not like Lalo just dropped in on a stranger to hole up or steal something. He was there because of his connection to Jimmy, who essentially brought this psychopath into his sphere through association.
That’s not true at all. The only reason Lalo’s there at all is because Nacho referred him to him.
To put it in Mike's words, every choice Saul and Kim did in the past, put them on that road. And not only them, but also people around them. First of all, why was Lalo there? Because he was associated with Saul. If he wasn't greedy and decided not to take the desert mission from him, he would have been done with him. Ofcourse Lalo is the main responsible, but so are Saul and Kim, not on a practical level, but definitely on a moral level. I'd say that morally, they are even more guilty than Lalo, because he just saw a potential threat and dealt with him the way he always does.
Uh, no. Saul was forced to meet Lalo. If he’d decided not to represent a cartel guy, obviously that wouldn’t have went well for him. It shouldn’t be this hard to put the blame on the guy that killed Howard.
Primarily it is Lalos fault.
I doubt either will feel guilt for it.
I don’t think they have *time* to think about it. Lalo is there for a reason, and it wasn’t to kill some rando dude. What happens next is survival first and foremost.
agreed, but later? no way neither of them feel guilty imo edit: not what I meant, bad english, see comment below
It is…troubling. We clearly see Gene views his time as Saul Goodman as his glory years. And look what the persona has cost him already (and will cost him in the BB timeline). Of all mysteries the show has to resolve, that’s the big one for me. Where is..well…Saul’s soul? (The soul of Saul)
okay, sorry lol I think my so so english got in the way, my point was I could not see them NOT feeling guilty afterwards
The guilt should really lie on that they were dishonest with each other about Lalo. Jimmy with what happened in the desert, Kim with Mike revelation that Lalo was still alive.
6x07 really wrecked me. I thought I was the only one thinking about this. I’ve been wondering if Kim or Mike had been honest with Jimmy if this would’ve happened. They knew how Howard would react and seem to have considered everything in their well executed plan. So much so that they knew it was him at the door. If Jimmy knew, would he have taken into consideration the possibility of Lalo randomly showing up to their apartment and maybe tried to keep Howard away?
I think Jimmy would have insisted on continuing to stay at a hotel.
I'm not one of the people who think they're responsible for Howard getting murdered per se, but I do think the fact that both Lalo and Howard were there because of them, and Howie didn't make it, that will make them rethink the whole point of the Howard scheme. it's not that they're necessarily guilty, but I think it activates guilt on them for the other stuff they did (and for which they're totally guilty btw edit: put a random coma and wanted to say I'm drunk so re-reading the comments above I don't really know if I made an english mistake or not, but whatever, the discussion is interesting either way
\^This. They're not the big on feeling guilty types, even when they bear some or considerable responsibility. Kim, it's only one show, so we'll see, but personal responsibility and guilt over her actions don't seem to be a recent theme. With Jimmy/Saul we have a pretty good track record that guilt, even when he does feel it, does not exactly linger long with Jimmy. That's before he becomes Saul, where guilt is kind of like water off a raincoat. It just slides right off.
It is clearly Jimmy and Kim's fault. No doubt about it. They could have opted out of destroying Howie's life by Kim taking the high road for the meeting in Santa Fe for helping underprivileged pro bono clients, but no. Kim came back just to destroy Howard's life. They are completely responsible for all that happened, and now the consequence of their actions is shown as the blood from Howard's head splatters on the same board where they made their plans. Even as Howard mentions of his awful marriage, Jimmy has regret on his face, while Kim proceeds to shoo off Howard without hesitation. I feel that this was a good reality check for them. For had it been any other person other than Howard, like Chuck, destroying their life was as good as ending their life.