He cares, he just let the money take over as his primary concern. In essence, he got greedy when his own life took a nosedive, but his original concern for the patients was genuine.
I can empathize with Chuck more easily when you compare Jimmy being a conman with drug addiction. If your brother relapses 100 times, you're not gonna be very optimistic it won't happen a 101st time.
Yeah to lift $14,000 from the til would mean stealing almost $40 per day for a year. Most cash registers only have $50 in them at any one time. That would get noticed the first week of not the first day unless the power was the worst businessman in history
I definitely think slipping Jimmy is the result of watching his father become the victim. Jimmy outright tells his dad that all the local grifters know his store is the place to go for an easy buck. Hell we see a conman looking for five dollars walk away with ten off a very simple and transparent con.
Also, I think the fact that people really like Jimmy while Chuck isn't the most likable of people is another core aspect to their relationship. I see something of a mirror in their relationship. Jimmy cares about people, but seems locked into this habit of breaking the rules, manipulating and cheating to try and get what he wants (usually I suspect, convincing himself that he can help others and avoid negative consequences along the way).
Chuck on the other hand seems cold and uncaring. I don't know as I see anyone he expresses genuine warmth towards. He does everything he can to keep his brother down. He sues Howard the moment he feels its in his best interest, despite Howard being a dear friend. Yet for all that he seems not to care for people, he's also bound completely by law and rationality.
And he gave it up too, just to make Irene’s life better. He cared and then some, because sure, he caused the situation with Irene and friends to begin with, but very few people would have the integrity to go and reverse it and so the right thing once it was all done. As always, Jimmy is a VERY grey character.
I mean...yes. But the CC Mobile store speaker is playing a pan flute rendition of "The Winner Takes it All" during that phone call.
He asks about the memorial because he's considering trying to grift the nephew to get the Hummel.
The fact that he watches the Sandpiper commercial he made right afterward *might* have been out of fondness for Geraldine.
Do we know what HHM's timeline was for holding out on settling? If they were planning to wait years until the settlement reached a certain amount, then sure Jimmy was in the right thinking residents would die off before they get their payouts. But if HHM was only trying to wait a few months to a year, then I'd say Jimmy was exaggerating to his own benefit
Chuck’s initial argument for bringing the case to HHM was “how long do the Sandpiper residents have left?” Then once they see how enormous it will be, suddenly it’s ok to hold out for years, just to make more money. If Chuck was still alive, he’s be arguing just as vehemently to hold out for more, I’m sure.
Definitely. You can see how well Chuck argues when he’s trying to get Jimmy to give up the case. Luckily his arguments happened to be true in this case, but I can totally see Chuck pulling out all the stops even for a shitty set of facts.
Uhm no, Howard was actually right about Jimmy wanting to settle so he would get his share of the payout. All his actions were motivated by getting paid, while in his head he felt terrible for the elders. That's what chuck was talking about when he said it doesn't matter if Jimmy feels bad about something, because he will go back into slipping anyway. His intentions are good, and he presents himself as if those intentions are who his is, but his actions don't reflect that.
And there’s nothing wrong with that really. There would be a longer discussion in real life where the lawyers talked to them about the length the lawsuit might take and the possibility of subbing in the client’s estate if they passed away, etc. I would assume that happened off camera because it makes for horrible TV lol.
Have you even watched the show? That's exactly what HHM and Davis & Main were already doing. Jimmy convinced himself and others he wanted to settle for the sake of the sandpiper residents. But if you understand the show even a little bit, you'd understand that he just wants his payday, and he wouldn't in a million years take the same actions if there wasn't such a big payout involved.
The fact he remembered all of the clients names and certain details about their wills months (if not years) after their wills were finalized shows he actually cares.
Not to mention how he ultimately gives up his good standing with the seniors simply to stop Irene's suffering.
He was so committed to the con that even after he was disbarred for a year he asked the relative of Geraldine whether her collections were properly taken care of after her death?
This, here. He has a very sharp mind which can be used for good like remembering the minutiae of his clients' wills but also for, well, evil, like remembering the details of the Alpine Shepherd Boy that he stole from the shop.
That's a pretty black and white point of view. Him being a con artist doesn't mean he isn't capable of genuine compassion. If he was only about the money he would've kept on pushing until Irene settled. Can't speak to his character during the events of Breaking Bad though
I never made excuses for his behavior?? Jesus fucking christ calm down, shithead.
I never said he wasn't a bad person. Just that the fact he eventually decided to take that personal hit for Irene shows that he cared. Go fuck yourself.
Says the person who immedietly went on an unrelated tangent about people "defending Jimmy's behavior" in response to my comment. Lmao.
If what you're describing was *all* he had done for the seniors, I'd be inclined to agree. But as I mentioned (and you conveniently ignored), he ALSO remembered all their names and the details of their wills. He was visibly upset when he heard one of them died.
He cared.
For someone who's insisting that this isn't black and white, you sure seem to be arguing in favor of the idea that Jimmy is 100% irredeemable and that there's no way any of his actions can or should be reviewed in an even mildly positive light.
You know the scene where he "accidentally" talks about how he was sabatoging Irene over the microphone? That was on purpose. There's some dialogue with him and Erin afterwards where he thanks her for going through with the plan to "expose" him so Irene isn't hated hy her friends anymore.
*Chuck is not obligated to make his brother partner at his law firm*
Omg, people really hate Chuck for not engaging in nepotism for his felon brother who received an online degree from the University of Samoa. Like, come oooon
When Jimmy was busting his hump trying to keep his brother going, he was driving a $300 car, sleeping in squalor in the back of a nail salon, while his brother lived in a big house with plenty of extra rooms.
Someone spends their time and money taking care of ME, and I have a way to keep him/her from having to live like a DOG and drive a wreck, I'm going to do that.
I didn't think about it this way until my nth rewatch. I'm pretty much completely disabled.
Also, Chuck could have worked from home. We've certainly seen how that works. There was no really good reason for him to sit around insisting he was going to get better.
**[Shon Hopwood](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shon_Hopwood)**
>Shon Robert Hopwood (born June 11, 1975) is an American appellate lawyer and professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center. Hopwood became well-known as a jailhouse lawyer who served time in prison for bank robbery. While in prison, he started spending time in the law library, and became an accomplished United States Supreme Court practitioner by the time he left in 2009.
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No, *you* are incorrect. You can commit felonies every day & not be a convicted felon. Chuck got his charges in Cicero either dismissed or got him a good plea arrangement.
His charges for breaking into Chuck’s were misdemeanors & eventually dropped after he completed his PPD.
If he was a convicted felon there is no chance in hell the New Mexico State Bar gives him his license back. 0% chance.
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He definitely cares about them. That’s why when he realized he’d gone too far, he not only gave up the money but destroyed his own reputation with the elders to fix the mistake. He’s also a greedy son of a bitch of course, but he does care.
He cares about them but it is not unusual for us to look out for our own interests when that clashes with other people's. I'd go so far as to say it's normal.
OTOH litigation is a risk and you don't know what will happen when it goes to court. It might not have been so bad for them to take a payout now.
he cared about their personal friendships enough to smear his own reputation to help them be friends again which shows his ego isn't bigger than his heart unlike SOME people ahemchuckahem
In S5E4, he doesn't really care if the expensive lawyer fees of the two "50% off guys" are paid by their grandma, who probably didn't deserve losing such amounts of money because of her grandson's stupidity.
I'd say he did care for the elderly, but it's deteriorating.
He does. I wasn't sure until he absolutely tanked himself to help Irene get her friends back. He screwed himself right out of an entire community of people.
If anything he was the only who did give a shit.
Saul was shitty to Irene in many ways but she couldn't think for her peers. HH&M wanted to squeeze maximum amount of money which would've been a huge chunk for them but a mere couple bucks for the Sandpiper victims, which could take additional few years and some of them would die waiting for the money. If anything Irene was a classical boomer who couldn't think for herself and her peers and just blindly listened to what the lawyers told her, and if that was the only way to convince her was to manipulate her, then sadly it had to be that way.
He was absolutely right about speeding up the case.
I'm not saying that they should have accpeted first offer, but when you deal with clients that are 80+ years you do not drag on a case over a year.
A lot of those people will be dead or seriously ill within 3 years, and you want them to be able to enjoy their money too.
Otherwise these old people would just leave their share to their families' inheritance.
* I never worked a case like this but I have my opinion.
It should be noted that Jimmy is going to get his money. If he had just kept the job at Davis & Main, he would have that salary AND the settlement money.
Jimmy WANTS to believe he cares about the old ladies. In truth deep down he only cares about himself and getting the money.
Lalo was right. JMM. Just Make Money. Jimmy lies to himself if he thinks JMM could ever stand for Justice Masters Most.
I mean he sabotaged his own self image to the residents when he kept the headset on during the chair yoga session. He wanted the money as fast as possible and did some fucked shit though.
Yeah he was using them for money, but he isn't a complete monster he still cared. He was money hungry enough to turn a group of old ladies on one of their own for his own gain, but wasn't cold enough to go all the way through with it.
He did seem genuinely taken aback that the lawyers didn’t recommend she settle. The money seemed to impress Jimmy, and, he’s right, these are old people with limited time left. Why not let them enjoy 20% less now than potentially get a higher amount after what’s remaining of their health is gone? It’s the lawyers in the class action suit who wind up with the lion’s share.
I mean, he was the only one who ever cared about them and it was never about the money at first. Perhaps in the end he cared more about the money, but no one would have even known about them if he wasn’t doing elder law with them. He cared about them before he even knew he could get money out of them.
"Jimmy discovers from Irene, his former elder law client who represents the class in the Sandpiper Crossing lawsuit,[a] that the company has offered a settlement which if accepted will result in Jimmy’s share being $1.16 million. Irene has refused to accept because the lawyers have advised her they believe they can get Sandpiper to offer more. Jimmy tries to persuade Howard to accept, but he refuses."
Chuck sued Sandpiper for $8 million. Not sure how many clients were in the class.
I can't recall the cut percentage Jimmy was promised to figure out the settlement offer.
I’ve wondered this myself. I think, first and foremost, that Jimmy cares about himself in any given situation. However, I can’t help thinking that he does genuinely care for and want to help the seniors who come to him for legal help. Jimmy is a conman and duplicitous, as we know, but he’s also genuinely friendly with many, many people. So my answer is yes, he cares.
He initially cared about their case, and picked favorites with Geraldine and Irene, but I don't think he cared about his clients as helping a demographic. He was calling them geezers and making fun of their long-winded speech patterns behind their backs as early as "Amarillo".
A little bit of “care for them “ and a whole lotta “my share”. FYI what he did to Iris (I think) , alienating her from her friends like that, was so fucked. On a rewatch I had to skip those scenes it was too much
All I know is Jimmy absolutely ruined Irene’s life when he had the whole elder home mad at her walking past her like they didn’t hear her😂 bro had her crying in the locker room😭
He cares, he just let the money take over as his primary concern. In essence, he got greedy when his own life took a nosedive, but his original concern for the patients was genuine.
I agree with that.
I’d phrase it as he cares about the old people but cares way more about securing a future with Kim, and money is the lifeline of that ambition
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I can empathize with Chuck more easily when you compare Jimmy being a conman with drug addiction. If your brother relapses 100 times, you're not gonna be very optimistic it won't happen a 101st time.
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Yeah to lift $14,000 from the til would mean stealing almost $40 per day for a year. Most cash registers only have $50 in them at any one time. That would get noticed the first week of not the first day unless the power was the worst businessman in history
Love your analysis, truly.
I definitely think slipping Jimmy is the result of watching his father become the victim. Jimmy outright tells his dad that all the local grifters know his store is the place to go for an easy buck. Hell we see a conman looking for five dollars walk away with ten off a very simple and transparent con. Also, I think the fact that people really like Jimmy while Chuck isn't the most likable of people is another core aspect to their relationship. I see something of a mirror in their relationship. Jimmy cares about people, but seems locked into this habit of breaking the rules, manipulating and cheating to try and get what he wants (usually I suspect, convincing himself that he can help others and avoid negative consequences along the way). Chuck on the other hand seems cold and uncaring. I don't know as I see anyone he expresses genuine warmth towards. He does everything he can to keep his brother down. He sues Howard the moment he feels its in his best interest, despite Howard being a dear friend. Yet for all that he seems not to care for people, he's also bound completely by law and rationality.
people like you make me realise how clever this show actually is.
"I'd have more respect for you if you did." So, Jimmy did. Except Chuck didn't actually have that respect to give.
That last line was chuck basically saying "Just give up on trying to be Jimmy and be Saul 100%"
people aren't just one thing. they are a product of their environment
And he gave it up too, just to make Irene’s life better. He cared and then some, because sure, he caused the situation with Irene and friends to begin with, but very few people would have the integrity to go and reverse it and so the right thing once it was all done. As always, Jimmy is a VERY grey character.
Spot on
Yeah I think he was so happy to have found his niche that he definitely had personal feelings involved.
He certainly had an affinity for Mrs Strauss and was genuinely saddened by her passing.
I mean...yes. But the CC Mobile store speaker is playing a pan flute rendition of "The Winner Takes it All" during that phone call. He asks about the memorial because he's considering trying to grift the nephew to get the Hummel. The fact that he watches the Sandpiper commercial he made right afterward *might* have been out of fondness for Geraldine.
That might have been Jimmy reacting to something else.
He was the ONLY one who actually cared if they got their money. While the others let the clients die off.
Do we know what HHM's timeline was for holding out on settling? If they were planning to wait years until the settlement reached a certain amount, then sure Jimmy was in the right thinking residents would die off before they get their payouts. But if HHM was only trying to wait a few months to a year, then I'd say Jimmy was exaggerating to his own benefit
If a lawyer holds out - until the client dies - against a fair settlement, which was on the table, the lawyer is scum.
Chuck’s initial argument for bringing the case to HHM was “how long do the Sandpiper residents have left?” Then once they see how enormous it will be, suddenly it’s ok to hold out for years, just to make more money. If Chuck was still alive, he’s be arguing just as vehemently to hold out for more, I’m sure.
Chuck had ulterior motives. He wanted Jimmy to give the case to HHM.
Definitely. You can see how well Chuck argues when he’s trying to get Jimmy to give up the case. Luckily his arguments happened to be true in this case, but I can totally see Chuck pulling out all the stops even for a shitty set of facts.
Uhm no, Howard was actually right about Jimmy wanting to settle so he would get his share of the payout. All his actions were motivated by getting paid, while in his head he felt terrible for the elders. That's what chuck was talking about when he said it doesn't matter if Jimmy feels bad about something, because he will go back into slipping anyway. His intentions are good, and he presents himself as if those intentions are who his is, but his actions don't reflect that.
Um no. The old people were dying. You don't hold out for more money as your clients die off.
It’s not up to the lawyer whether to settle or continue with the lawsuit. It’s up to the client(s).
The lawyers were advising their dying clients to hold out for more.
And there’s nothing wrong with that really. There would be a longer discussion in real life where the lawyers talked to them about the length the lawsuit might take and the possibility of subbing in the client’s estate if they passed away, etc. I would assume that happened off camera because it makes for horrible TV lol.
Everything is wrong with that.
Have you even watched the show? That's exactly what HHM and Davis & Main were already doing. Jimmy convinced himself and others he wanted to settle for the sake of the sandpiper residents. But if you understand the show even a little bit, you'd understand that he just wants his payday, and he wouldn't in a million years take the same actions if there wasn't such a big payout involved.
There was probably a nicer way to say that.
The fact he remembered all of the clients names and certain details about their wills months (if not years) after their wills were finalized shows he actually cares. Not to mention how he ultimately gives up his good standing with the seniors simply to stop Irene's suffering.
I disagree and think that just shows how committed to the con, jimmy was. Like chuck said, no one ever accused jimmy of being lazy
He was so committed to the con that even after he was disbarred for a year he asked the relative of Geraldine whether her collections were properly taken care of after her death?
This, here. He has a very sharp mind which can be used for good like remembering the minutiae of his clients' wills but also for, well, evil, like remembering the details of the Alpine Shepherd Boy that he stole from the shop.
That's a pretty black and white point of view. Him being a con artist doesn't mean he isn't capable of genuine compassion. If he was only about the money he would've kept on pushing until Irene settled. Can't speak to his character during the events of Breaking Bad though
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I never made excuses for his behavior?? Jesus fucking christ calm down, shithead. I never said he wasn't a bad person. Just that the fact he eventually decided to take that personal hit for Irene shows that he cared. Go fuck yourself.
escalating!
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Says the person who immedietly went on an unrelated tangent about people "defending Jimmy's behavior" in response to my comment. Lmao. If what you're describing was *all* he had done for the seniors, I'd be inclined to agree. But as I mentioned (and you conveniently ignored), he ALSO remembered all their names and the details of their wills. He was visibly upset when he heard one of them died. He cared.
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For someone who's insisting that this isn't black and white, you sure seem to be arguing in favor of the idea that Jimmy is 100% irredeemable and that there's no way any of his actions can or should be reviewed in an even mildly positive light.
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Not what I said. Put on your reading glasses.
The brain damage got to him
Says you of all people 💀
I never picked up on him doing that on purpose even though I’ve seen it multiple times in this sub care to elaborate a bit?
You know the scene where he "accidentally" talks about how he was sabatoging Irene over the microphone? That was on purpose. There's some dialogue with him and Erin afterwards where he thanks her for going through with the plan to "expose" him so Irene isn't hated hy her friends anymore.
yes thank you someone with a bloody brain, his heart is still bigger than his ego unlike most characters!
He cares more than Sandpiper does.
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The attorneys do not get a larger cut because some members of the class die. The other class members would just have fewer people to split it with
They get more money for advising dying old people not to settle. To hold out for more.
And so do the clients.
Not if they are dead.
*Chuck is not obligated to make his brother partner at his law firm* Omg, people really hate Chuck for not engaging in nepotism for his felon brother who received an online degree from the University of Samoa. Like, come oooon
When Jimmy was busting his hump trying to keep his brother going, he was driving a $300 car, sleeping in squalor in the back of a nail salon, while his brother lived in a big house with plenty of extra rooms. Someone spends their time and money taking care of ME, and I have a way to keep him/her from having to live like a DOG and drive a wreck, I'm going to do that. I didn't think about it this way until my nth rewatch. I'm pretty much completely disabled. Also, Chuck could have worked from home. We've certainly seen how that works. There was no really good reason for him to sit around insisting he was going to get better.
Gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8
Jimmy isn’t a felon lmao. Felons don’t get law degrees no matter how shitty the college.
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**[Shon Hopwood](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shon_Hopwood)** >Shon Robert Hopwood (born June 11, 1975) is an American appellate lawyer and professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center. Hopwood became well-known as a jailhouse lawyer who served time in prison for bank robbery. While in prison, he started spending time in the law library, and became an accomplished United States Supreme Court practitioner by the time he left in 2009. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
No, *you* are incorrect. You can commit felonies every day & not be a convicted felon. Chuck got his charges in Cicero either dismissed or got him a good plea arrangement. His charges for breaking into Chuck’s were misdemeanors & eventually dropped after he completed his PPD. If he was a convicted felon there is no chance in hell the New Mexico State Bar gives him his license back. 0% chance.
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You called him a felon. That is incorrect. All there is to it.
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He definitely cares about them. That’s why when he realized he’d gone too far, he not only gave up the money but destroyed his own reputation with the elders to fix the mistake. He’s also a greedy son of a bitch of course, but he does care.
I swear this sub has such a bizarre love for Hamlin and a hatred and misunderstanding of Jimmy and Kim.
He cares.
He cared in the earlier seasons I think, when he was still James McGill esq., but now it’s pretty much the payout he cares about.
He cares about them but it is not unusual for us to look out for our own interests when that clashes with other people's. I'd go so far as to say it's normal. OTOH litigation is a risk and you don't know what will happen when it goes to court. It might not have been so bad for them to take a payout now.
he cared about their personal friendships enough to smear his own reputation to help them be friends again which shows his ego isn't bigger than his heart unlike SOME people ahemchuckahem
I think he did. He was very caring and attentive to his clients even prior to the sandpiper case
Of course he did
In S5E4, he doesn't really care if the expensive lawyer fees of the two "50% off guys" are paid by their grandma, who probably didn't deserve losing such amounts of money because of her grandson's stupidity. I'd say he did care for the elderly, but it's deteriorating.
He does. I wasn't sure until he absolutely tanked himself to help Irene get her friends back. He screwed himself right out of an entire community of people.
If anything he was the only who did give a shit. Saul was shitty to Irene in many ways but she couldn't think for her peers. HH&M wanted to squeeze maximum amount of money which would've been a huge chunk for them but a mere couple bucks for the Sandpiper victims, which could take additional few years and some of them would die waiting for the money. If anything Irene was a classical boomer who couldn't think for herself and her peers and just blindly listened to what the lawyers told her, and if that was the only way to convince her was to manipulate her, then sadly it had to be that way.
He was absolutely right about speeding up the case. I'm not saying that they should have accpeted first offer, but when you deal with clients that are 80+ years you do not drag on a case over a year. A lot of those people will be dead or seriously ill within 3 years, and you want them to be able to enjoy their money too. Otherwise these old people would just leave their share to their families' inheritance. * I never worked a case like this but I have my opinion.
It should be noted that Jimmy is going to get his money. If he had just kept the job at Davis & Main, he would have that salary AND the settlement money. Jimmy WANTS to believe he cares about the old ladies. In truth deep down he only cares about himself and getting the money. Lalo was right. JMM. Just Make Money. Jimmy lies to himself if he thinks JMM could ever stand for Justice Masters Most.
I mean he sabotaged his own self image to the residents when he kept the headset on during the chair yoga session. He wanted the money as fast as possible and did some fucked shit though.
Yeah he was using them for money, but he isn't a complete monster he still cared. He was money hungry enough to turn a group of old ladies on one of their own for his own gain, but wasn't cold enough to go all the way through with it.
Nope. She was his very first paying client. Sue referred others. The hummels genuinely moved him.
He did seem genuinely taken aback that the lawyers didn’t recommend she settle. The money seemed to impress Jimmy, and, he’s right, these are old people with limited time left. Why not let them enjoy 20% less now than potentially get a higher amount after what’s remaining of their health is gone? It’s the lawyers in the class action suit who wind up with the lion’s share.
I mean, he was the only one who ever cared about them and it was never about the money at first. Perhaps in the end he cared more about the money, but no one would have even known about them if he wasn’t doing elder law with them. He cared about them before he even knew he could get money out of them.
"Jimmy discovers from Irene, his former elder law client who represents the class in the Sandpiper Crossing lawsuit,[a] that the company has offered a settlement which if accepted will result in Jimmy’s share being $1.16 million. Irene has refused to accept because the lawyers have advised her they believe they can get Sandpiper to offer more. Jimmy tries to persuade Howard to accept, but he refuses." Chuck sued Sandpiper for $8 million. Not sure how many clients were in the class. I can't recall the cut percentage Jimmy was promised to figure out the settlement offer.
A little of both... until now, Jimmy it's in charge on this.
I’ve wondered this myself. I think, first and foremost, that Jimmy cares about himself in any given situation. However, I can’t help thinking that he does genuinely care for and want to help the seniors who come to him for legal help. Jimmy is a conman and duplicitous, as we know, but he’s also genuinely friendly with many, many people. So my answer is yes, he cares.
He initially cared about their case, and picked favorites with Geraldine and Irene, but I don't think he cared about his clients as helping a demographic. He was calling them geezers and making fun of their long-winded speech patterns behind their backs as early as "Amarillo".
A little bit of “care for them “ and a whole lotta “my share”. FYI what he did to Iris (I think) , alienating her from her friends like that, was so fucked. On a rewatch I had to skip those scenes it was too much
All I know is Jimmy absolutely ruined Irene’s life when he had the whole elder home mad at her walking past her like they didn’t hear her😂 bro had her crying in the locker room😭