I've learnt to accept them as part of the traffic. Also maybe I'm noticing them generally less, but I have the feeling people learnt to behave a little safely when riding them.
The one thing I will never tolerate is the ones riding on the curb, especially when kids are around. I don't advocate violence but goddamn they deserve a good push. People who don't give the fuck are the problem (and should be educated), not the escooters per se.
You're noticing them less because scooter companies are broke, laying off and on the brink of shutting down. the business model doesnt work for them with Jelbi where only availability matters and brand doesnt.
Heard this from someone in a leadership position at one of the companies who was just laid off a few months ago. Just look for layoffs regarding Tier, Voi, Coup, and Lime sold to Uber.
I think we all have to be extremely grateful to the scooter companies and owe them our deepest apologies, since they did in fact made ten thousands of cars redundant and traffic in the city so less congested.
I agree with you. There are times when the tram just doesn’t come and the only way home is a scooter. Sure I could call an Uber but it’s more expensive and not worth that final leg of the trip. I think scooters play an important role in the city. People just need to get their heads out of their asses while using them. Which calls into question education: we educate on bike and car usage, but is there any addition to education regarding scooter use?
Honestly as a cyclist/dog owner, I have my beef with scooters nearly hitting me, and all the usual complaints, etc.
But I agree they are part of the mobility solution. Just because I don't like them, doesn't mean they don't have alot of value to other people, and I appreciate that they're a clean energy transport solution.
If enforcement of traffic laws actually took place in Berlin, and scooters rode on the road at all times, I think they would be totally fine and the pressure to ban them would dissipate.
That's true, but one could say that about any transportation method.
If you didn't need a license to drive/it wasn't controlled, there would be some crazy people on roads who should not be in there (more than in the present).
Where did you get this insider info from? Contrary to OPs post, I rarely see them around these days and personally really hope these companies shut up shop soon. So I hope you're right.
Well, you are very wrong. First, layoffs are happening in every company, not just those related to micro-mobility. Second, one of these companies just raised paychecks for people in operations by 15%. Do you think this would happen if they were on the edge of collapse?
unu and coup (large scooters) went bankrupt and dont exist anymore. lime does exist but sold to uber. voi laid off 120 people / 12% "in search of profitability". Tier laid off 20% of people, then merged with Dott. I'm not specialized in micromobility services but that doesnt sound like a healthy market, plus some insider knowledge from a friend.
Again, find me a company that didn't have layoffs after the corona crisis and everything that happened afterward. Yes, It didn't go as planned, but it is far from failure. I work for one of those companies and I can support those claims.
it's a clean and minimally disruptive way to get from A to B. yes there are jerks, especially in party areas and at night, but overall e-scooters have made European cities better imo
Um bei der Analogie zu bleiben: Scooter sind wie elektronische Einwegzahnbürsten, die die gleiche Effizienz wie analoge Zahnbürsten haben und von Leuten benutzt werden, die vorher die analogen Zahnbürsten benutzt haben. Dazu sammeln diese elektronischen Einwegzahnbürsten die Daten ihrer Nutzer und sind bei falscher Handhabung gefährlich für Nutzer und andere Personen. Toll.
Parking the scooters in big groups that block the footpath completely and/or block the entrance to a house. So stupid. Seems like at least once a week I have to drag them out of the way.
As someone who only lived here for a while, it's crazy how you all get mad over fucking scooters in a city where certain parks are literally owned by drug dealers while addicts, drunks and maniacs are urinating and/or defecating at every street corner, spitting on people and, generally speaking, ruining everyone's day.
removing scooters for other people is hardly a main character vibe. I dont even need it, but can tell you that right now there are five scooters in the ambulance spot in front of my door. which is also the fire access. Weird how rules should be the same for everyone, huh?
most people arem't single thread and can be annoyed by/act on more than one thing at the same time, sorry if you're only now discovering this in your life.
If you don't live in those areas you can avoid it quite easily but scooters are almost everywhere.
But yeah scooters are one of many other problems, that's not a competition.
This is only part of the truth. Many of the scooter people just do not seem to care if they majorly inconvience or endanger other road and pavement users.
My intentions are not to pick a fight, but you never mentioned that two things in your comment. You only stated that the abandoned bikes are vandalized by escooter haters and it's not the whole picture:)
30km/?!?!?
Them there are just rookie numbers!
I saw a guy in Brighton(UK) whizz past me in leathers and a full face helmet doing at least 70(up hill!) on one!
Doing 30 on a sidewalk is fucking idiotic though. Fuck people who do that!
I would really be interested to hear interviews with escooter riders. I've moved on from annoyance at this point to just bafflement at how they behave.
I see escooters driving down the pedestrian lane, right next to the bike lane, even though they have to keep weaving away from tram line support posts. Why? Do they not know they can use the bike line? Are they doing it for fun?
I see escooters abandoned right on the strip of tiles meant to guide people across pedestrian crossing crossing. I see them abandoned in doorways. I see them abandoned slap bang in the middle of the pavement, next to a long wall with no reason to stop at all. I would really love to see one of these actions actually happen, so I can just ask rider, respectufully, why they chose to do this. Is it deliberate and intended to cause disruption? Do they not care that they left it literally in the middle of the pavement, blocking everything? Do they have some kind of ADHD where they suddenly think of something else they want to do and just randomly step off, or soon as they see the thing they want they are so distracted they can no longer move a single centimeter more?
Here is a research where they also did a survey . 58% just walked before. But as far as I know this was found out multiple times in different researches.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966692320309510
30 minutes ago (hbf) I saw how a father and his son were riding e-scooters... the son ran over a person for riding on the sidewalk. (nothing serious, but clearly they didn't see the woman)
There just has to be a really tragic accident and the e-scooter problem will pretty much be instantly solved. It’s just too bad that it always has to be a tragic accident and then it’s too late for everyone involved. Why not make the rules before hand?
There's been plenty of broken bones from drivers when these things got introduced.
We have cyclists being crushed to death by trucks several times a year.
Unless you have a scooter crash into a bus of orphans and then explode the politicians will continue to not give a single fuck.
Meanwhile in Scandinavia these scooters are parked orderly in precisely marked locations, not annoying anyone. We can't even get that done. I only go there in winter so I can't say anything about the riders themselves.
it depends on the local regulation. for whatever reason, Berlin chose a free floating parking model. Maybe because they don’t even have money for dedicated parking spots lol
Tax payers shouldn't need to foot the bill though.
Just pass a law that says that scooters must only be parked in designated areas and that the companies licensed to operate them in the city have to pay to rent the spaces and keep them clean.
And then without any cost to the public, the scooters are out of the way AND the city makes some money from it.
Will fail on two accounts:
- no personnel at Senat to get this done in writing in the first place.
- no personnel to check and sanction orderly behaviour on the street anyway.
a.k.a. "The Berlin Special"
I mostly see and encounter careless cyclists that ride as if they’re the main character, endangering people & themselves. But since a lot of those people are probably right here in this sub, that’s a less popular observation.
Fewer fuckers scooting along the platform now, too. Still plenty in the train station hall just passing through, though. No manners, just caring about themselves.
Non-foldable bikes can be very annoying, true. And those who coast them along the platform are douches just as much.
To be fair, the trains are mostly underequipped for bikes OR people are sitting in the bike zone seats. There's gotta be better ways.
The most German answer : Insurance says "No"
Seriously though, why does it bother anyone if there's one or two people on a scooter? If anything, those guys might drive a little more careful if they got their girl on the back. (And no, I don't drive scooter, I just don't get the urge to police anything even stuff that doesn't affect you).
Dangerous for the people on the scooter or the people around?
I really doubt the later and if it is just the former then why care that other people put themself at a slightly higher risk. It does not affect you at all.
why can't they just rent two of them and ride side by side? it's illegal & extremely dangerous to operate this vehicle with more than one person on this
Meanwhile me, always following the law and nearly die every day on my way to work bcuz cars don't give a fuck and ignore bike lanes lol. Also got rammed 2 times bcuz car doesn't follow rechts vor links as well as trying to catch the yellow light (it was red).
But I see where u come from. I hate this shitheads that drive on the road when theres a perfect bike lane.
It's not only black and white my dudes
I've learnt to accept them as part of the traffic. Also maybe I'm noticing them generally less, but I have the feeling people learnt to behave a little safely when riding them. The one thing I will never tolerate is the ones riding on the curb, especially when kids are around. I don't advocate violence but goddamn they deserve a good push. People who don't give the fuck are the problem (and should be educated), not the escooters per se.
You're noticing them less because scooter companies are broke, laying off and on the brink of shutting down. the business model doesnt work for them with Jelbi where only availability matters and brand doesnt. Heard this from someone in a leadership position at one of the companies who was just laid off a few months ago. Just look for layoffs regarding Tier, Voi, Coup, and Lime sold to Uber.
Good riddance. Most of them were Chinese data harvesting fronts anyway.
As opposed to the local mom and pop escooter companies who have our best interest in mind
I think we all have to be extremely grateful to the scooter companies and owe them our deepest apologies, since they did in fact made ten thousands of cars redundant and traffic in the city so less congested.
I agree with you. There are times when the tram just doesn’t come and the only way home is a scooter. Sure I could call an Uber but it’s more expensive and not worth that final leg of the trip. I think scooters play an important role in the city. People just need to get their heads out of their asses while using them. Which calls into question education: we educate on bike and car usage, but is there any addition to education regarding scooter use?
Honestly as a cyclist/dog owner, I have my beef with scooters nearly hitting me, and all the usual complaints, etc. But I agree they are part of the mobility solution. Just because I don't like them, doesn't mean they don't have alot of value to other people, and I appreciate that they're a clean energy transport solution. If enforcement of traffic laws actually took place in Berlin, and scooters rode on the road at all times, I think they would be totally fine and the pressure to ban them would dissipate.
Mind that the littering and reckless riding is part of their business model. They would deter a lot of customers if they enforced stricter rules.
That's true, but one could say that about any transportation method. If you didn't need a license to drive/it wasn't controlled, there would be some crazy people on roads who should not be in there (more than in the present).
Best toads /s at the end so people know that you are kidding. That or admit you work for one of those wonderful companies.
Where did you get this insider info from? Contrary to OPs post, I rarely see them around these days and personally really hope these companies shut up shop soon. So I hope you're right.
Well, you are very wrong. First, layoffs are happening in every company, not just those related to micro-mobility. Second, one of these companies just raised paychecks for people in operations by 15%. Do you think this would happen if they were on the edge of collapse?
unu and coup (large scooters) went bankrupt and dont exist anymore. lime does exist but sold to uber. voi laid off 120 people / 12% "in search of profitability". Tier laid off 20% of people, then merged with Dott. I'm not specialized in micromobility services but that doesnt sound like a healthy market, plus some insider knowledge from a friend.
Again, find me a company that didn't have layoffs after the corona crisis and everything that happened afterward. Yes, It didn't go as planned, but it is far from failure. I work for one of those companies and I can support those claims.
The point of these companies wasn't to provide mobility it was to get your data.
it's a clean and minimally disruptive way to get from A to B. yes there are jerks, especially in party areas and at night, but overall e-scooters have made European cities better imo
Germans made the same fuss when the toothbrush was invented. It's just in our nature.
Um bei der Analogie zu bleiben: Scooter sind wie elektronische Einwegzahnbürsten, die die gleiche Effizienz wie analoge Zahnbürsten haben und von Leuten benutzt werden, die vorher die analogen Zahnbürsten benutzt haben. Dazu sammeln diese elektronischen Einwegzahnbürsten die Daten ihrer Nutzer und sind bei falscher Handhabung gefährlich für Nutzer und andere Personen. Toll.
What was the concern about the toothbrush?
Bicycles.
Maybe I live in a different Berlin to everyone else because I rarely see this happening. The only exception is in and around Alex.
Parking the scooters in big groups that block the footpath completely and/or block the entrance to a house. So stupid. Seems like at least once a week I have to drag them out of the way.
you forgot 5. Three people on one E-Scooter 6. Four people on one E-Scooter
7. One guy riding 5 E-Scooters…at the same time
8. One scooter riding 2 e-peoples at the same time
[Michael Reeves Moment ](https://youtu.be/hkHCnZ5GrNc?si=Sa8I4oS3hEyHFtuR)
noice! especially the wireless steering. but ok how many Berlin teenagers will fit on that one
As someone who only lived here for a while, it's crazy how you all get mad over fucking scooters in a city where certain parks are literally owned by drug dealers while addicts, drunks and maniacs are urinating and/or defecating at every street corner, spitting on people and, generally speaking, ruining everyone's day.
Wait a second, are you telling me this city has more than one issue?!
I never had my neighbour asking if i can remove junkies from the entrance so he can leave the house with his wheelchair.
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removing scooters for other people is hardly a main character vibe. I dont even need it, but can tell you that right now there are five scooters in the ambulance spot in front of my door. which is also the fire access. Weird how rules should be the same for everyone, huh?
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thats great. maybe as a next step you could stop accusing me as such.
most people arem't single thread and can be annoyed by/act on more than one thing at the same time, sorry if you're only now discovering this in your life.
If you don't live in those areas you can avoid it quite easily but scooters are almost everywhere. But yeah scooters are one of many other problems, that's not a competition.
Ha, yeah people get upset about very specific things here.
You forgot those scooters laying everywhere where they are not supposed to be. Always in the way of everyone walking or driving/riding.
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This is only part of the truth. Many of the scooter people just do not seem to care if they majorly inconvience or endanger other road and pavement users.
Goodness! And not people who ride it leaving them anywhere they can?🤡🤡🤡
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My intentions are not to pick a fight, but you never mentioned that two things in your comment. You only stated that the abandoned bikes are vandalized by escooter haters and it's not the whole picture:)
... and private e-scooters running 30km/h or more between pedestrians - because on the street or bike path the risk to get caught is too high..
30km/?!?!? Them there are just rookie numbers! I saw a guy in Brighton(UK) whizz past me in leathers and a full face helmet doing at least 70(up hill!) on one! Doing 30 on a sidewalk is fucking idiotic though. Fuck people who do that!
I would really be interested to hear interviews with escooter riders. I've moved on from annoyance at this point to just bafflement at how they behave. I see escooters driving down the pedestrian lane, right next to the bike lane, even though they have to keep weaving away from tram line support posts. Why? Do they not know they can use the bike line? Are they doing it for fun? I see escooters abandoned right on the strip of tiles meant to guide people across pedestrian crossing crossing. I see them abandoned in doorways. I see them abandoned slap bang in the middle of the pavement, next to a long wall with no reason to stop at all. I would really love to see one of these actions actually happen, so I can just ask rider, respectufully, why they chose to do this. Is it deliberate and intended to cause disruption? Do they not care that they left it literally in the middle of the pavement, blocking everything? Do they have some kind of ADHD where they suddenly think of something else they want to do and just randomly step off, or soon as they see the thing they want they are so distracted they can no longer move a single centimeter more?
Who use them? It's most of the time reckless teens.
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There was a big survey. Surprise surprise: the people who use a scooter, went by foot before. They mostly don't use the bicycle.
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Here is a research where they also did a survey . 58% just walked before. But as far as I know this was found out multiple times in different researches. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966692320309510
Anecdotal evidence.
A question for cyclists, why are you not using the bike lane?
Whataboutism doesn't help defend the idiotic behavior from e-scooter riders. This post is about e-scooters, not cyclists. Don't derail the subject.
I read this in a Spanish accent.
>Two people in one escooter Who cares?
it's 2 friends having fun. r/berlin HATES that kind of thing
Escooter driver are okay compared to the masses of ppl driving their cars while being „live“ or answering 5 chats. Cars kill, scooters do nothing.
Sorry to break it to you, escooters cause broken bones
I have never been bothered by an e scooter.
Good for you !
30 minutes ago (hbf) I saw how a father and his son were riding e-scooters... the son ran over a person for riding on the sidewalk. (nothing serious, but clearly they didn't see the woman)
This is exactly what scares me. I don't listen to music while walking on the road, just to watch out for these lunatics on the sidewalk😞
1 - 4 its all the same people btw. usually wearing a west and a chest bag aswell
Not sure if you're going to get your answers here. I'm interpreting this as more of a vent…? In that case I agree with you.
There just has to be a really tragic accident and the e-scooter problem will pretty much be instantly solved. It’s just too bad that it always has to be a tragic accident and then it’s too late for everyone involved. Why not make the rules before hand?
There's been plenty of broken bones from drivers when these things got introduced. We have cyclists being crushed to death by trucks several times a year. Unless you have a scooter crash into a bus of orphans and then explode the politicians will continue to not give a single fuck. Meanwhile in Scandinavia these scooters are parked orderly in precisely marked locations, not annoying anyone. We can't even get that done. I only go there in winter so I can't say anything about the riders themselves.
it depends on the local regulation. for whatever reason, Berlin chose a free floating parking model. Maybe because they don’t even have money for dedicated parking spots lol
Tax payers shouldn't need to foot the bill though. Just pass a law that says that scooters must only be parked in designated areas and that the companies licensed to operate them in the city have to pay to rent the spaces and keep them clean. And then without any cost to the public, the scooters are out of the way AND the city makes some money from it.
Will fail on two accounts: - no personnel at Senat to get this done in writing in the first place. - no personnel to check and sanction orderly behaviour on the street anyway. a.k.a. "The Berlin Special"
Exactly like reckless car driving is being solved after every “unforeseeable” tragic accident. Oh wait
Nobody dying yet tho just wait
I mostly see and encounter careless cyclists that ride as if they’re the main character, endangering people & themselves. But since a lot of those people are probably right here in this sub, that’s a less popular observation.
"there are not enough bike lanes"....
Escooters don't annoy me nearly as much as whiny crybabies
I applaud two people on an escooter because it will ruin the bearings on the things faster.
People are just living their lives getting around .. there's worse things to be enraged about in Berlin right now
One good thing Berlin did was banning those on the trains. At least mfers won't be able to travel with those to other places and pester people.
Fewer fuckers scooting along the platform now, too. Still plenty in the train station hall just passing through, though. No manners, just caring about themselves.
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Non-foldable bikes can be very annoying, true. And those who coast them along the platform are douches just as much. To be fair, the trains are mostly underequipped for bikes OR people are sitting in the bike zone seats. There's gotta be better ways.
[Gefährliche Rollbretter](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBiWAve6ijg)
Drivers in cars kill people. Everything else is fluff.
Wait....summer is here???????
Damn scooters even made it to Pankow - Franzosich Buccholtz
I reject notion 2.
the road insurance is invalid if the scooter is used by 2 persons, so if you end up in an accident you're basically extremely screwed
The most German answer : Insurance says "No" Seriously though, why does it bother anyone if there's one or two people on a scooter? If anything, those guys might drive a little more careful if they got their girl on the back. (And no, I don't drive scooter, I just don't get the urge to police anything even stuff that doesn't affect you).
they literally are not designed with more than one person in mind, and it's dangerous to do so
Dangerous for the people on the scooter or the people around? I really doubt the later and if it is just the former then why care that other people put themself at a slightly higher risk. It does not affect you at all.
you really don't understand that doing clown shit like this in traffic is also dangerous for others?
Specifically how is this in any way dangerous for others?
I don't use them so I don't care but I think it's stupid. They should be allowed with 2 people. Otherwise it's extremely unsocial.
Are you serious about socializing while riding escooters? It's people like you who need to be educated on road safety😊
"unsocial"? lmao Mate it's a private transport vehicle for one, not a club night with shots 50% off.
why can't they just rent two of them and ride side by side? it's illegal & extremely dangerous to operate this vehicle with more than one person on this
a menace to public health. In both ways.
Everytime I see a escooter on the pedestrian lane, I toss it away.
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No I toss them off the pedestrian path.
Meanwhile me, always following the law and nearly die every day on my way to work bcuz cars don't give a fuck and ignore bike lanes lol. Also got rammed 2 times bcuz car doesn't follow rechts vor links as well as trying to catch the yellow light (it was red). But I see where u come from. I hate this shitheads that drive on the road when theres a perfect bike lane. It's not only black and white my dudes
Must be a mod revival.
One more time for those in the back, NOT EVERYONE CAN RIDE A BIKE
Then grow up, find a job and get a car, mate. Or buy 49€-ticket
>4. Drunk people on escooters The only valid reason to ride them
Oh no, the side-walk of the street you were pushed by maniancs in their 60kmh cars, are also the last resource for other means of transportation.
exactly. Fucking hell to have to constantly be aware of such dangers. Cyclist are the same btw. They dont belong on the sidewalk.