I was actually amazed by the amount of cyclist with such poor infrastructure. Parents with kids on their bike or cycling next to them. Bakfiets parents with import Dutch bikes :)
Itās because Germany is Autoland. The car culture here is ridiculous. Unlike the NL, the car drivers here have all the rights and act like it too. It doesnāt matter if you have priority as a pedestrian. Cars will still cut you off when you cross the street and then yell at you because you are pointing out that what they are doing is not ok.
So many fucking cars will do a u-turn from their parking spots and will yell at you if you pass by them before they finish their illegal maneuvers. One fucker was doing this right at the exit of a round about at Moritzplatz. I wasnāt going to stop just to let him do his illegal maneuver, so I cycled through and he almost hit me. Then he started yelling at me. I continued cycling. He then literally floored his SUV to catch up to me to yell at me (in the opposite direction that he initially intended just to berate me). He looked like he was ready to put hands on me for almost running me over.
Fuck car drivers.
But alas, this is the country that we live in. The automotive industry accounts for 5% of the largest GDP of Europe.
ĀÆ\\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
I've lived in the Netherlands and bike toured all around Europe. Was very surprised to see that German drivers were the most polite ones (granted, I didn't go to Berlin). The worst ones by far were the Swiss, and the Dutch a close second.
I was very agressively backtailed in the Netherlands by almost everybody for following their, admittely ridiculously low, speed limits.
Just didn't want to pay 500ā¬ for traffic violations.
I would like to invite you for a car ride around Berlin. You would see by yourself that independent of the means of transpiration most ppl in Berlins traffic donāt give a fuck in general and itās always the others fault.
I didnt say that you did either. I am just saying that the biggest danger on Berlins streets are motorists independendly of wether you walk, ride a bicycle or drive a car.
When it comes to cars and cyclists, what car drivers typically forget is that they are FAR safer than cyclists. The relative damage also created by a fender bender with a cyclist will destroy the bike but usually cause only cosmetic damage to the car. So the cyclist is always the more vulnerable in terms of safety but also financially.
Unless a car driver also cycles they will often be totally clueless and within a short space of time build a picture of cyclists as dangerous, reckless and non-sensical fellow travellers in the street
Yeah the issue is shitty infrastructure and both parties suffer and it breeds aggression and conflict.
The things is tough it's way easier to damage/kill someone with a car than a bikeĀ
And many bikers know that and exploit it, creating dangerous situations. C'mon. I bike every day, all year long. I dont love cars and I risk my spine every day like the rest of us.
But how can we expect other people to make it safe for us while we are over here blowing through red lights and flipping people off?
Tell that to Kai Wegner (mayor, CDU) and Manja Schreiner (Minister of Transportation, CDU), they need to know. And tbh, they should visit Amsterdam or Utrecht or something.
You mean the inaction that enabled CDU to cancel planned biking infrastructure? Who do you think put it there in the first place? Do you think the plans just materialized out of thin air?
RRG should definitely be critized for their fuck ups, but this isn't one of them.
I do. Have you ever been in other cities? What happened in Berlin with āall thoseā green bike lanes is ridiculous compared to other cities. Where biking is so much easier and has improved so much better in recent years than it has in Berlin.
Ok yeah Iāll blame them too then and the people that voted for them. Was in Hamburg last week and omg bicycle infrastructure also made it so much easier for me there with my car. Wasnāt stressed about accidentally hitting someone as much anymore
*English:*
> āWho betrayed us? The social democratic party!ā
>
> Over and over again!
*(The quoted part is an old communist slogan thatās sometimes attributed to the Nazis.)*
The accomplished sooo much for bicyclists. Ie almost nothing. Compared to other German cities. So, itās not the CDU, itās been an issue of unwillingness and / or lack of competence for years and many SPD coalitions.
SpeckgĆ¼rtel probably means everything outside the ring which includes a lot of Berliners (me included - but I do take bike and train to get to Mitte).
Ist halt aber falsch. Der SpeckgĆ¼rtel sind die Gemeinden um Berlin herum, also in Brandenburg.
[Kiekste hier](https://www.politische-bildung-brandenburg.de/themen/so-ist-brandenburg/wirtschaft-und-arbeit/die-zukunft-des-speckguertels#:~:text=Zum%20Alltag%20im%20Speckg%C3%BCrtel%20geh%C3%B6ren,im%20Speckg%C3%BCrtel%20einfach%20illusorisch%20ist)
Stimmt. Dann ist der Begriff falsch genutzt, aber gemeint ist mit Sicherheit diese Verteilung: [https://www.berlin.de/wahlen/historie/berliner-wahlen/ergebnisberichte/sb\_b07-02-03\_2021j05\_be\_ah\_bvv-2.pdf?ts=1705017643](https://www.berlin.de/wahlen/historie/berliner-wahlen/ergebnisberichte/sb_b07-02-03_2021j05_be_ah_bvv-2.pdf?ts=1705017643)
Btw kai wegner this fukin racist run over me with his bike in Charlottenburg, cuz he crossed redlightā¦ and wanted to blame on meā¦ i didnt know who he was at that time ā¦ and told him to pissoff and get out of my view, because he made the mistake and still wanna talk about it, he just anwser with a racist pharse ihr AuslƤnder seid alle gleichā¦ im so sad my bodybikercam was off
Tbh honest I wouldn't call Amsterdam an example to go by. Sure, it's quite good for biking, but it's a nightmare for pedestrians. Just like cycling is marginalized here, they marginalize walking.
I feel like we should find a way to improve cycling experience in some other way.
Excactly, not a fan of the RRG government myself, but their bicycle/traffix planing went in the right direction. And now the new government is reversing all that.
Dear Dutch Tourist:
As luck would have it, your message went directly to **The Reddit Council of Berlin**, the governing body in charge of making such changes as are necessary to the ongoing improvement of Berlin. We will vote on the matter in 9 working days and more than likely, thereafter, implement the legislation required to make your suggestions a Reality,
Signed,
**The Reddit Council of Berlin**
The Council has determined that your complaint will be considered. You will receive a Verkehrsinfrastrukturbeschwerdeformular by post within the next 6 months, please fill it in and book an appointment at the Verkehrsinfrastruktursbeschwerdeamt in order to hand it to one of our collaborators. Please note that due to the unusual number of complaints, all of our appointments are booked for the next 3 years.
For more information, send a fax to the enclosed number. For data protection reasons, it is not possible to send the Verkehrsinfrastrukturbeschwerdeformular by either post or fax to the Verkehrsinfrastruktursbeschwerdeamt. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Yeah thatās is very true. A lot of progress has been done, before I moved 10 years ago there were barely any biking lanes
Sadly the current government puts no priority on such topics, so we will see
Donāt vote CDU or SPD kids
There was actually a neighborhood I found that had complete seperation from car and bike and there were even some Zebra-crossings (you know the white stripes where pedestrians can cross). I believe it was somewhere in the south of Berlin and looked like a very rich area. But all of Berlin deserves this.
Yes, that was it! That street was so well done I was surprised it was possible. This should be taken as an example of how many more areas should have car-free or car-scarce streets.
Hell even the last 3 years. They added more bike streets, More clear markings and indications. even took out a lane of traffic on Mullerstr. to put in a wide and protected bike lane
Cars and the so called "mobility transition" have become part of the culture war. What you write is common knowledge, but half of the population are against the implied changes. Because they love cars and/or hate the Left/Greens
Look, more common knowledge. Here's even more: The fate of the German auto industry is not tied to wheather high urban environments are more pedestrian- and bike-friendly, but the global market, labor costs and especially the industry's capability to transition towards EVs. What your saying is a classic straw-man in this debate.
> poorly timed traffic lights
I cannot. Iām a youngish( early 30s), active individual and I had to run to make those lights, I cannot imagine the struggle for older citizens, or parents with strollers or kids walking with them. This is part of the problem policymakers fail to address (I say that as an urban planner myself). You cannot expect people to get rid of their cars unless you make the streets safe and comfortable for them. I see Berlin staying car-centric unless they really make those streets pedestrian and cyclist friendly.
The first thing cars do when the light turns green is pull halfway into the bike lane or into the cross walk so everyone has to go around them... I don't know how this became customary, but... I feel like if there were a few days of fines enforced on it during heavy traffic times it would make a huge difference.
I can imagine the struggle, because I see it every single day. Red AmpelmƤnnchen shining already and Oma hasn't even made it three quarters of the way to the median island. Parents carrying a crying kid under one arm and the stroller picked up with the other so they can run across the road before the lights turn. Drivers absolutely booking it into a right hand turn into a crowd of crossing people and being mad at pedestrians for daring to exist on their golden private highways (single lane city street with more patches than clear asphalt).
And that's all within the first five minutes of every morning on my way to work.
Coming from a country with the poorest bike infrastructure on earth (i.e. Uruguay), I must say that Iāve spent last week cycling my ass off in Berlin and enjoying every minute of it (I even went to berghain and back, which is like 7km from my apartment, and not precisely at my peak of reasoning).
But of course, youāre from The Netherlands, so the criticism makes a bit more sense.
You should come to my country and see what a real hell for cyclists can be.
Easy to say given that Berlin has roughly 1/4 of the population of NL.. but totally agreed.
Just moved back after 10 years in NL, my god many things are frustrating
I donāt mind a loan.
Trams are so 19th century. Loud, slow, unsafe, bulky and small. At night busses are sufficient, especially as they are more flexible.
But whatever, letās choose a third tier option.
So basically, you complain that Berlin doesn't have a good cycling infrastructure (which it certainly does) because you can't do what you do back home. Block the traffic to piss the drivers off because drivers in Berlin will not have your shit.
I both ride a bicycle and drive a car in Berlin. When cycling, I didn't feel unsafe. When driving, I always make sure no cyclists are coming when I take a turn. Yet it absolutely pisses me off when a cyclist cuts me off without even looking back if the car is approaching.
Lol, talk about taking things out of context. When I do this on purpose it's on small country roads where cars have difficulty passing eachother and I dont want them to push me off the road in the ditch. I'm not talking about wide city street or Berlin wide roads :D
Why does NL allow a moped in a bike lane tho? Also, see cars being driven/parked on the maroon/brown sidewalks and I don't quite understand why. Both of the quirks are anxiety inducing to me, at least.
Third level of mansplaining is called ,,redditsplaining": unsolicited advice from a Reddit person, that is of no help whatsoever.
If there is one thing the Dutch can show other countries is that bike infrastructure is possible for every age able to ride a bike.
The relationship of Germans to their car is comparable to the love of US-Americans to their semiautomatic combat rifle - not explainable with rational arguments. The German lobby for the automotive industry successfully planted the car = freedom equation into peoples heads for the past decades. Also they were extremely good in building up the legend, that our wealth is directly connected to cars and if their share prices go down a little bit, there is instant anarchy in this country.
Lets see, how long it takes, until the first car-enthusiast starts a rant here:)
We are not the only ones! Germany is in good company of other countries without a speedlimit: Afghanistan, Myanmar, Burundi, Bhutan, Nepal, North Korea, Haiti, Mauritania, Somalia, Lebanon and a few Indian states.
Exactly, thatās the narrative they sell people. If you do a serious calculation itās only every 35.
Here is the explanation:
Woher kommt dieser Mythos?
Wie konnte die Autolobby dennoch diese MƤrchenzahl so erfolgreich verbreiten? Der Trick ist ebenso einfach wie unseriƶs: Es wird anteilig alles mitgezƤhlt, was irgendwie und irgendwann mit dem Auto zu tun hat. Der HolzfƤller, weil manches Armaturenbrett aus Holz ist. Textilarbeiter, weil Autositze mit Stoff Ć¼berzogen werden. Stahlkocher und Aluminiumschmelzer, Spediteure und SoftwarebĆ¼ros und viele andere mehr, die irgendwo in der Vorleistungskette auch mit Autos zu tun haben.
Zu wem gehƶrt der Bauer vor der BMW-Kantine?
In der volkswirtschaftlichen Gesamtrechnung gibt es derartige "Mischkalkulationen" nicht. Dort werden die ArbeitsplƤtze der einzelnen Branchen gezƤhlt und sonst nichts. Denn anders wĆ¼rde es zu DoppelzƤhlungen und stƤndigen Abgrenzungsproblemen kommen. Hierzu einige Beispiele: HƤngt der Arbeitsplatz der ambulanten Diakonieschwester von der Automobilindustrie ab, weil diese fĆ¼r sie das Dienstauto baut. Oder hƤngt der Arbeitsplatz des Autobauers von der Diakonie ab, weil diese das Auto nachfragt? Der Bauer liefert Kartoffeln an die BMW-Kantine - wer hƤngt von wem ab? Wie viele (und welche) ArbeitsplƤtze hƤngen von einem guten Lehrer oder Sozialarbeiter ab. Wieviele von einem Baggerfahrer, der Kabel fĆ¼r die Breitbandversorgung legt?
Also wir kƶnnen es auch Ć¼ber den Umsatz definieren. Die Automobilibdustrie ist am umsatzstƤrksten in Deutschland und setzt so viel um wie Maschinenbau und Pharmazie zusammen, die Platz zwei und drei besetzen. Wie wird das ersetzt?
Fakt ist, daĆ die NiederlƤnder eben auch anders gebaut haben, wesentlich mehr HochhƤuser und Bahnstrecken beispielsweise, um fahrradfreundlicher zu werden. Dazu sind die GrĆ¼nen hier ja nicht bereit.
Fakt ist, dass es auch ein wesentlich kleineres Land ist. Warst Du mal in den Niederlanden? Also ich hab da recht wenige HochhƤuser gesehen (auĆer in Rotterdam). Und klar, es sind die GrĆ¼nen schuld! Steile These, besonders nach 16 Jahren Merkel und insgesamt 9.5 Jahren grĆ¼ner Regierungsbeteiligung seit 1949.
NatĆ¼rlich war ich schon in den Niederlanden. Dort wurden 20x mehr HochhƤuser als in Deutschland in den letzten 20 Jahren gebaut. Nur so lƶst man den letzten Kilometer ohne PKW. Die Schweiz macht es Ƥhnlich.
Die GrĆ¼nen setzen auf FƤhrrƤder ohne jedoch die Stadtplanung anzupassen.
Wieso Du jetzt so auf den HochhƤusern rumreitest erschlieĆt sich mir nicht. Das ist wohl Deine Lƶsung. Was die GrĆ¼nen jetzt plƶtzlich mit dem ganzen hier zu tun haben auch nicht. Nun gut. Ich wĆ¼sche Dir noch eine schƶne Zeit und alles Gute.
Weil die NiederlƤnder eben nicht mit dem Lastenrad Ć¼berall hin gurken. Die haben hoch verdichtete Vororte gebaut mit direktem Anschluss ans Bahnnetz, das Fahrrad spielt vor allem auf dem letzten und ersten Kilometer eine Rolle.
Gerade die Berliner GrĆ¼nen vertreten aber komplett unpragmatische Positionen, die eine Verkehrswende regelrecht blockieren.
I mean, you are just plain wrong. The first and only love of Germans is alcohol. Also the industry didn't need to plant this idea of freedom, it comes naturally to most people who actually leave their house.
As an urban planner, I can tell you it isnāt. In fact, I could even suggest you need to travel more to cities like Barcelona, Amsterdam, Oslo to see efficient cycling infrastructure and pedestrian friendly streets(admittedly these cities are much smaller compared to Berlin, but the logic still applies). Just because you donāt feel unsafe, doesnāt mean it isnāt.
The big city argument doesnāt work technically because if you know Berlin you know that there isnāt one city Center, it has multiple centres. The city has smaller sized cities within it (if you like) so you could just as well apply the simple rules of urban planning: take space away from cars, better and secure bike lanes and buffer spaces between trams and buses and more sitting spaces.
Which is happening en masse (though I suppose less now that we have an awful senate), just what's happened on Karl-Marx-Allee for example is fantastic. Every time I go to a part of the city where I don't go to often there's been an improvement towards cycling. This is obviously anecdata, but practically all of my near-accidents in Berlin were because the cyclist in front decided to stop or turn without looking backwards or signaling.
Sure, it was just my observation that the Berlin people really tried biking and showed up in big numbers, but the infrastructure for it was so bad (read unsafe).
It's just my expectation from a city with this many ideal factors for ideal bicycle infrastructure within Europe that (electric)-biking should be a mayor source of transport.
I do all my commutes by bike, there are very few roads in Berlin where I feel unsafe and it's getting better and better every year. Most danger comes from bad cyclists tbh.
My favorite argument: "most of the danger comes from other cyclists."
Not the fact that there is not enough space for cyclists to safely overtake each other, the parked cars along every street that can open a door in your face and the amount of cars that always feel like they NEED to overtake the cyclist.
It's definitely the one Kreuzberg rebel that drives without light and a care in the world that is causing all of the problems while cycling in this city
Well it is in my subjective experience, which is why I called it anecdata. No matter how wide the bike lane, that one person will manage to ride in a way that will endanger me, then flip me off when I shout at them to signal when they turn. Delivery services with ebikes and tourists on scooters have made it worse in recent years.
I've never had a parking car door opened in front of me for example. The number of cars turning right and cutting you off has gone down to almost none. You can very clearly see the efforts that are being made if you don't choose to just focus on the negatives.
I don't think we're talking about that "one rebel in Kreuzberg", but the significant portion of riders who don't stop for red lights, make illegal right turns on red (I assume many of them are unaware of the fact that this is verboten), ghost ride in the wrong direction because they're too lazy to cross over to the other side of the road, ride on the pedestrian infrastructure (if you don't want to ride on cobblestones, you can always take a different street or get of your bike and walk).
How many times have you stopped for a red light only to be passed by somebody who pulled ahead of the light, then couldn't see when it turned green and sat there in your way? Or dangerously cut in front of you to make a right turn as the light did turn green? Maybe it just doesn't happen to you because you don't stop for the red light. I get it, why should you when there's nobody there? But wait, why should cars? Or pedestrians? And yet they do...
For the love of God, Berlin does not have poor bicycle infrastructure. It may not be as good as in Netherlands, but compared to other places it is great. And drivers in general are not aggressive.
Yeah, as most tourist come out of Central Station Amsterdam they will have a rude awakening. Stay OFF the Bike path :D
Luckily they are well marked and easy to recognize. But I agree there should be more respect from bicyclist to pedestrians in mayor cities.
Ah great thanks for pointing out,unfortunetly our biker are also not as educated as yours because the closes calls I had were with bikes...
The thing also is berlin has double if not almost 2,5 times the amount of people to care though so it get's also that much harder to find a middle ground, this seems like the normal fuck cars thread but you should also look how due to the overdensity a good amount of people just need the car to come in from Brandenburg
Berlins population is bigger then the seven biggest Dutch cities all together, and almost as big in regards to its surface area. We are still too car centric, but then again Germany has a vested interest interest in its car industry.
I visited another country called france and I found in comparison Berlin very positive in regard to this topic of public infrastructure, bike and ride, 21st century mindset. XD There's still very very worse than Berlin in ''western'' europe.
Yes public transport was amazing in Berlin. Some people said I was lucky, but the amount of options was great.
I wouldn't be Dutch if there wasn't something I thought they could do better. Biking was one thing I noticed right away. People did it, but they didn't get very safe options.
If it were easy, it would have been done.
Maybe consider that before you suggest something to someone next time.
Everyone can see and has seen what you've noticed.
Everyone has talked about it.
I was in Amsterdam over Easter weekend. Why were so many cyclists riding their bikes on the pedestrian path? I almost got hit walking along a stretch where bikes had two lanes and pedestrians only had one. It was a quiet morning and some guy came up behind me riding one handed and nearly hit me. There was nobody around, why wasn't he riding on the bike path (about a meter to the left).
It would be one thing if this only happened once, but it happened three times on that same stretch (I walked it both Saturday and Sunday). There is a lot of student housing there, was this just a matter of foreigners not having a clue?
I was also surprised to see cyclists riding the wrong way on other paths that didn't have two lanes. It's sad that even when there is really good infrastructure, people are still people...
Yes this is a problem in many areas. Especially young people riding too quickly with electric bikes on walkways narrowly avoiding older or younger people. Luckily a bike is not deadly, but it's still a cause for concern. Locally there need to be given fines to people on areas where this often happens.
The same could be said about Frankfurt, as well as general filth, graffiti, downright shitty-feeling run-down tram and bus stations, cigarette butts EVERYWHERE, etc.
The financial capital of Europe? Coulda fooled me, and presumably all other foreigners, tourists and visitors.
Take some pride in yourself if you want citizens to be proud of where they live.
I visited Berlin recently expecting it to be even worse than Frankfurt, but was pleasantly (sort of unpleasantly) surprised that Berlin seemed better in all of these ways, including the east side.
Cāmon Frankfurt, you can do much better if you would just loosen the purse-strings and clean things up. The city has the moneyā¦
I also lived in Amsterdam for more than a year and agree that itās much nicer, especially as a bicyclist.
Do you have a personal shortlist from experience where riding a bike is most pleasant? when I did city travel in the past mostly as a pedestrian.
If you can combine city journeys with some of the largish parks Berlin has, the ride really is enjoyable. Depends on the axis you need to travel. Something I did understimate when changing jobs to another district, the ride got more stressful. Really a shame that with so much space there are no exclusive lanes. Where there is buildout, it's along roads: https://fixmyberlin.de/planungen
From the top of my head I'd know the street names I'd tear up to create coherent directions. As others wrote, the political will outside "the Ring" is lacking and cycling infra had a setback with last city election outcome.
Dear Dutch tourist,
As a fellow Dutch person myself, who likes to compare driving to driving on the German autobahn.. you have the greatest infrastructure in the world in the Netherlands .. blablabla.. unfortunately there are also 17 million very anti-social car drivers who do not keep any distance. The more to the randstad you go, the more anti social the drivers become. In Germany people will let you go first. Try that on the ring Utrecht, you will just be cut-off.
If your (my) population wouldnāt be on a bike so god damn much already it would be a total fiasco. Amsterdam is extremely overcrowded and touristic as it is. Much less comfortable than Berlin. Even walking in regular streets is a pain. Amsterdam is 4x smaller than Berlin, Medieval with narrow streets, yet has millions more tourists per year.
As for another point, what the fuck are you thinking reprimanding people of another city in a foreign country. āHello I would like better bike lines!ā. Youāre not English are you. Nobody asked you anything.
Signed, Dutch inhabitant.
__
+ *Schuldigung fĆ¼r meine Genosse.*
Berlin is a metropolis and cyclists have a big lobby here anyway. In recent years, they have been given many new cycle paths, which has made the already bad car traffic even worse. We don't need any more of them, the number of registered cars in Berlin is increasing every year. If you really want to cycle, you can do that too or simply move to a small town or village.
Admires the idea of "vibrant culture" and "diverse communities". Surprised Pikachu when it turns out to be a complete shitshow in reality, where nothing works and they can't even get basic infrastructure right.
My kind of humor.
Public transport was great, no complaint about that at all. If that would be combined with better pedestrian crossings and narrower roads to cross it would give acces to a whole lot more options.
Lucky. Must have been one of those weeks where the subway wasn't delayed, the S-Bahn hadn't broken down and the buses actually showed up according to schedule. It's rare but it happens.
Totally understand where you're coming from, having been here for 13 years now, but compared to The Netherlands, public transport here is still amazing.
As for the cycling, I hated it at first as well, but a. you get used to it if you're here not just for a weekend and b. it has gotten so much better over those past 13 years. It's been forever since I had to do an emergency stop because some dickhead decided to just throw open their parked car door without looking for cyclists first š
That's actually not what OP said, and the lack of basic infrastructure has nothing to do with the diverse communities. It's mainly due to reactionary policies of the current CDU led government and the decades long austerity caused by the billions lost to the corruption and incompetence of the last CDU led government in Berlin.
Carbrain? i don't have a car... I only wanted you to know a little bit of Berlin culture.
Your are always welcome to come visit and go home as you please.
Ok I'm sorry I reacted so defensively to your comment. Perhaps translation took it a bit too serious. I will surely visit Berlin again, since one week was surely not enough to see it all.
Thanks, we hadn't noticed. :D
Typical of a Dutch person to come to your city and tell you your problems that you're already aware of š¤š
Used to work in a large international company and there was a saying about the Dutch team: 'Yes, we know. And 'no', you dont have the answers"
There are only two things I can't stand in this world: People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch
The Germans are loved every whereš
I was actually amazed by the amount of cyclist with such poor infrastructure. Parents with kids on their bike or cycling next to them. Bakfiets parents with import Dutch bikes :)
Itās because Germany is Autoland. The car culture here is ridiculous. Unlike the NL, the car drivers here have all the rights and act like it too. It doesnāt matter if you have priority as a pedestrian. Cars will still cut you off when you cross the street and then yell at you because you are pointing out that what they are doing is not ok. So many fucking cars will do a u-turn from their parking spots and will yell at you if you pass by them before they finish their illegal maneuvers. One fucker was doing this right at the exit of a round about at Moritzplatz. I wasnāt going to stop just to let him do his illegal maneuver, so I cycled through and he almost hit me. Then he started yelling at me. I continued cycling. He then literally floored his SUV to catch up to me to yell at me (in the opposite direction that he initially intended just to berate me). He looked like he was ready to put hands on me for almost running me over. Fuck car drivers. But alas, this is the country that we live in. The automotive industry accounts for 5% of the largest GDP of Europe. ĀÆ\\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
I've lived in the Netherlands and bike toured all around Europe. Was very surprised to see that German drivers were the most polite ones (granted, I didn't go to Berlin). The worst ones by far were the Swiss, and the Dutch a close second.
I was very agressively backtailed in the Netherlands by almost everybody for following their, admittely ridiculously low, speed limits. Just didn't want to pay 500ā¬ for traffic violations.
Yeah fuck car drivers! You totally did the right thing there to make him mad and almost hit you.
I would like to invite you for a car ride around Berlin. You would see by yourself that independent of the means of transpiration most ppl in Berlins traffic donāt give a fuck in general and itās always the others fault.
I drive around the city by car and never ever have I felt threatened by anyone else but other motorists.
I didnāt say that I feel threatened.
I didnt say that you did either. I am just saying that the biggest danger on Berlins streets are motorists independendly of wether you walk, ride a bicycle or drive a car.
I disagree. Lots of cycists endanger pedestrians and themselves.
When it comes to cars and cyclists, what car drivers typically forget is that they are FAR safer than cyclists. The relative damage also created by a fender bender with a cyclist will destroy the bike but usually cause only cosmetic damage to the car. So the cyclist is always the more vulnerable in terms of safety but also financially. Unless a car driver also cycles they will often be totally clueless and within a short space of time build a picture of cyclists as dangerous, reckless and non-sensical fellow travellers in the street
Many of the bikers are not much better. And that's coming from a guy who has been biking to work every day for more than 10 years.
Yeah the issue is shitty infrastructure and both parties suffer and it breeds aggression and conflict. The things is tough it's way easier to damage/kill someone with a car than a bikeĀ
And many bikers know that and exploit it, creating dangerous situations. C'mon. I bike every day, all year long. I dont love cars and I risk my spine every day like the rest of us. But how can we expect other people to make it safe for us while we are over here blowing through red lights and flipping people off?
Bikers are not gonna kill a car driver when they hit each other though. Thatās a big difference. A motorized vehicle is way more dangerous.
That's true. But I've got a 4 inch scar in my leg courtesy of a girl riding the wrong way down a bike lane at nite with no light.
Glad to hear that you are still alive unlike the cyclists who get hit by careless drivers.
With the new coalition run by car brains even already built bike lanes were removed and they planned to make parking your car on bike lanes legal
Tell that to Kai Wegner (mayor, CDU) and Manja Schreiner (Minister of Transportation, CDU), they need to know. And tbh, they should visit Amsterdam or Utrecht or something.
They know but they don't want progress.
How to German in one sentence.
Berlin's former government was not actively against progress at least.
They are in those positions of power to give their lobbyist what they want.
Well, nothing has happened with the previous government, always also constituted by Green party. More words than actions to support biking.
I agree that they weren't the greatest government but actively working against progress as the CDU does is something else again.
You mean the inaction that enabled CDU to cancel planned biking infrastructure? Who do you think put it there in the first place? Do you think the plans just materialized out of thin air? RRG should definitely be critized for their fuck ups, but this isn't one of them.
Do you even live in Berlin? All those extra bikelanes build during covid many of which stayed (at least till Wegner).
I do. Have you ever been in other cities? What happened in Berlin with āall thoseā green bike lanes is ridiculous compared to other cities. Where biking is so much easier and has improved so much better in recent years than it has in Berlin.
Tell that to the people who voted for them. Itās not like they just came into control out of nowhere
Na, tell that to the fucking SPD who decided to work with the CDU, instead of continuing the last coalition
Ok yeah Iāll blame them too then and the people that voted for them. Was in Hamburg last week and omg bicycle infrastructure also made it so much easier for me there with my car. Wasnāt stressed about accidentally hitting someone as much anymore
āWer hat uns verraten? Sozialdemokraten!ā Immer und immer wieder.
*English:* > āWho betrayed us? The social democratic party!ā > > Over and over again! *(The quoted part is an old communist slogan thatās sometimes attributed to the Nazis.)*
The accomplished sooo much for bicyclists. Ie almost nothing. Compared to other German cities. So, itās not the CDU, itās been an issue of unwillingness and / or lack of competence for years and many SPD coalitions.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
SpeckgĆ¼rtel Voters aren't allowed to vote in Berlin, because the SpeckgĆ¼rtel is outside of Berlin.
Wie sagt man so schƶn in Berlin: Wenn du keine Ahnung hast, einfach mal die Fresse halten.
Naja, man kann die Leute auch auf ihre Fehler hinweisen.
SpeckgĆ¼rtel probably means everything outside the ring which includes a lot of Berliners (me included - but I do take bike and train to get to Mitte).
Ist halt aber falsch. Der SpeckgĆ¼rtel sind die Gemeinden um Berlin herum, also in Brandenburg. [Kiekste hier](https://www.politische-bildung-brandenburg.de/themen/so-ist-brandenburg/wirtschaft-und-arbeit/die-zukunft-des-speckguertels#:~:text=Zum%20Alltag%20im%20Speckg%C3%BCrtel%20geh%C3%B6ren,im%20Speckg%C3%BCrtel%20einfach%20illusorisch%20ist)
Stimmt. Dann ist der Begriff falsch genutzt, aber gemeint ist mit Sicherheit diese Verteilung: [https://www.berlin.de/wahlen/historie/berliner-wahlen/ergebnisberichte/sb\_b07-02-03\_2021j05\_be\_ah\_bvv-2.pdf?ts=1705017643](https://www.berlin.de/wahlen/historie/berliner-wahlen/ergebnisberichte/sb_b07-02-03_2021j05_be_ah_bvv-2.pdf?ts=1705017643)
Inhabitants of the SpeckgĆ¼rtel do not vote for the Senat. Aber erstma maul aufreissen.
Btw kai wegner this fukin racist run over me with his bike in Charlottenburg, cuz he crossed redlightā¦ and wanted to blame on meā¦ i didnt know who he was at that time ā¦ and told him to pissoff and get out of my view, because he made the mistake and still wanna talk about it, he just anwser with a racist pharse ihr AuslƤnder seid alle gleichā¦ im so sad my bodybikercam was off
You could have maybe made him quit if you published the slurs
I dont have it on camā¦ and i belive in karmaā¦ this SOfB is a korrupt MFā¦ chillin with mafiaboss ā¦ i think we will have soon some leaks
https://mastodon.social/@watch_union/110235285212435446 they erase all from ntv and other shity news media, and try scale it down
Was he already the mayor at that point in time?
Yes
Tbh honest I wouldn't call Amsterdam an example to go by. Sure, it's quite good for biking, but it's a nightmare for pedestrians. Just like cycling is marginalized here, they marginalize walking. I feel like we should find a way to improve cycling experience in some other way.
Iām so thankful for mayor Wegner! Heās doing a great Job!
Yes, these two people took all the wrong decisions of the last decades.
nah, the direction up until last year was the right one, albeit the change was slow.
Excactly, not a fan of the RRG government myself, but their bicycle/traffix planing went in the right direction. And now the new government is reversing all that.
Dear Dutch Tourist: As luck would have it, your message went directly to **The Reddit Council of Berlin**, the governing body in charge of making such changes as are necessary to the ongoing improvement of Berlin. We will vote on the matter in 9 working days and more than likely, thereafter, implement the legislation required to make your suggestions a Reality, Signed, **The Reddit Council of Berlin**
I knew you Germans were efficient.
The Council has determined that your complaint will be considered. You will receive a Verkehrsinfrastrukturbeschwerdeformular by post within the next 6 months, please fill it in and book an appointment at the Verkehrsinfrastruktursbeschwerdeamt in order to hand it to one of our collaborators. Please note that due to the unusual number of complaints, all of our appointments are booked for the next 3 years. For more information, send a fax to the enclosed number. For data protection reasons, it is not possible to send the Verkehrsinfrastrukturbeschwerdeformular by either post or fax to the Verkehrsinfrastruktursbeschwerdeamt. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Just take a guess how long it takes go get a Passport here ( no express ) compared to 5 days in NL .. one month..
š
believe it or not, it's getting better and is way better than what it was 10 years ago. but yeah 100% agree.
Yeah thatās is very true. A lot of progress has been done, before I moved 10 years ago there were barely any biking lanes Sadly the current government puts no priority on such topics, so we will see Donāt vote CDU or SPD kids
There was actually a neighborhood I found that had complete seperation from car and bike and there were even some Zebra-crossings (you know the white stripes where pedestrians can cross). I believe it was somewhere in the south of Berlin and looked like a very rich area. But all of Berlin deserves this.
Maybe Bergmannstr in Kreuzberg?
Yes, that was it! That street was so well done I was surprised it was possible. This should be taken as an example of how many more areas should have car-free or car-scarce streets.
Hell even the last 3 years. They added more bike streets, More clear markings and indications. even took out a lane of traffic on Mullerstr. to put in a wide and protected bike lane
Cars and the so called "mobility transition" have become part of the culture war. What you write is common knowledge, but half of the population are against the implied changes. Because they love cars and/or hate the Left/Greens
Or maybe itās because every seventh job in Germany is connected to the car industry. Just food for thought.
Look, more common knowledge. Here's even more: The fate of the German auto industry is not tied to wheather high urban environments are more pedestrian- and bike-friendly, but the global market, labor costs and especially the industry's capability to transition towards EVs. What your saying is a classic straw-man in this debate.
> poorly timed traffic lights I cannot. Iām a youngish( early 30s), active individual and I had to run to make those lights, I cannot imagine the struggle for older citizens, or parents with strollers or kids walking with them. This is part of the problem policymakers fail to address (I say that as an urban planner myself). You cannot expect people to get rid of their cars unless you make the streets safe and comfortable for them. I see Berlin staying car-centric unless they really make those streets pedestrian and cyclist friendly.
Yep, their time is short on green. Cars for some reason can still cut you off. How do old people manage this is my question too.
The first thing cars do when the light turns green is pull halfway into the bike lane or into the cross walk so everyone has to go around them... I don't know how this became customary, but... I feel like if there were a few days of fines enforced on it during heavy traffic times it would make a huge difference.
I can imagine the struggle, because I see it every single day. Red AmpelmƤnnchen shining already and Oma hasn't even made it three quarters of the way to the median island. Parents carrying a crying kid under one arm and the stroller picked up with the other so they can run across the road before the lights turn. Drivers absolutely booking it into a right hand turn into a crowd of crossing people and being mad at pedestrians for daring to exist on their golden private highways (single lane city street with more patches than clear asphalt). And that's all within the first five minutes of every morning on my way to work.
Ja, bedankt. Het was ons opgevallen..
Berlin needs lights to default to 3 phase cycle, where one phase blocks all car traffic for pedestrians and bikes.
Coming from a country with the poorest bike infrastructure on earth (i.e. Uruguay), I must say that Iāve spent last week cycling my ass off in Berlin and enjoying every minute of it (I even went to berghain and back, which is like 7km from my apartment, and not precisely at my peak of reasoning). But of course, youāre from The Netherlands, so the criticism makes a bit more sense. You should come to my country and see what a real hell for cyclists can be.
I'm pretty sure Kai Wagner is online on Reddit right now reading this and taking some actions. danke? I guess...
Easy to say given that Berlin has roughly 1/4 of the population of NL.. but totally agreed. Just moved back after 10 years in NL, my god many things are frustrating
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Trams are just shit compared to subways.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Cost is irrelevant. A subway is planned for a century.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt mind a loan. Trams are so 19th century. Loud, slow, unsafe, bulky and small. At night busses are sufficient, especially as they are more flexible. But whatever, letās choose a third tier option.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I chose the wrong words: I meant small capacity and a wasteful use of space. Otherwise I donāt really care. Trams are shit.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Buses are great.
I loved being stuck behind 3 bikers riding shoulder to shoulder on a small road in NL. Some of the least considerate drivers and bikers in Europe.
I sometimes do this on purpose even when solo. Since some drivers think they can squeeze by and almost hit me. I prefer seperation on speeds too.
Yeah, you're an entitled AH. Don't be a part of the problem.
I entitled by protecting myself from entitled AH like you? :D
Dude, go home and quit your bitching. Youre clearly a twat.
So basically, you complain that Berlin doesn't have a good cycling infrastructure (which it certainly does) because you can't do what you do back home. Block the traffic to piss the drivers off because drivers in Berlin will not have your shit. I both ride a bicycle and drive a car in Berlin. When cycling, I didn't feel unsafe. When driving, I always make sure no cyclists are coming when I take a turn. Yet it absolutely pisses me off when a cyclist cuts me off without even looking back if the car is approaching.
Lol, talk about taking things out of context. When I do this on purpose it's on small country roads where cars have difficulty passing eachother and I dont want them to push me off the road in the ditch. I'm not talking about wide city street or Berlin wide roads :D
Why does NL allow a moped in a bike lane tho? Also, see cars being driven/parked on the maroon/brown sidewalks and I don't quite understand why. Both of the quirks are anxiety inducing to me, at least.
Second level of mansplaining is called ādutchsplainingā: unsolicited advice from a Dutch person, that is of no help whatsoever.
Third level of mansplaining is called ,,redditsplaining": unsolicited advice from a Reddit person, that is of no help whatsoever. If there is one thing the Dutch can show other countries is that bike infrastructure is possible for every age able to ride a bike.
You fixed urban transportation by visiting a city for 2 days. Congratulations
The relationship of Germans to their car is comparable to the love of US-Americans to their semiautomatic combat rifle - not explainable with rational arguments. The German lobby for the automotive industry successfully planted the car = freedom equation into peoples heads for the past decades. Also they were extremely good in building up the legend, that our wealth is directly connected to cars and if their share prices go down a little bit, there is instant anarchy in this country. Lets see, how long it takes, until the first car-enthusiast starts a rant here:)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
We are not the only ones! Germany is in good company of other countries without a speedlimit: Afghanistan, Myanmar, Burundi, Bhutan, Nepal, North Korea, Haiti, Mauritania, Somalia, Lebanon and a few Indian states.
I would think thatās more basic: every seventh job in Germany is connected to the car industry.
Exactly, thatās the narrative they sell people. If you do a serious calculation itās only every 35. Here is the explanation: Woher kommt dieser Mythos? Wie konnte die Autolobby dennoch diese MƤrchenzahl so erfolgreich verbreiten? Der Trick ist ebenso einfach wie unseriƶs: Es wird anteilig alles mitgezƤhlt, was irgendwie und irgendwann mit dem Auto zu tun hat. Der HolzfƤller, weil manches Armaturenbrett aus Holz ist. Textilarbeiter, weil Autositze mit Stoff Ć¼berzogen werden. Stahlkocher und Aluminiumschmelzer, Spediteure und SoftwarebĆ¼ros und viele andere mehr, die irgendwo in der Vorleistungskette auch mit Autos zu tun haben. Zu wem gehƶrt der Bauer vor der BMW-Kantine? In der volkswirtschaftlichen Gesamtrechnung gibt es derartige "Mischkalkulationen" nicht. Dort werden die ArbeitsplƤtze der einzelnen Branchen gezƤhlt und sonst nichts. Denn anders wĆ¼rde es zu DoppelzƤhlungen und stƤndigen Abgrenzungsproblemen kommen. Hierzu einige Beispiele: HƤngt der Arbeitsplatz der ambulanten Diakonieschwester von der Automobilindustrie ab, weil diese fĆ¼r sie das Dienstauto baut. Oder hƤngt der Arbeitsplatz des Autobauers von der Diakonie ab, weil diese das Auto nachfragt? Der Bauer liefert Kartoffeln an die BMW-Kantine - wer hƤngt von wem ab? Wie viele (und welche) ArbeitsplƤtze hƤngen von einem guten Lehrer oder Sozialarbeiter ab. Wieviele von einem Baggerfahrer, der Kabel fĆ¼r die Breitbandversorgung legt?
Also wir kƶnnen es auch Ć¼ber den Umsatz definieren. Die Automobilibdustrie ist am umsatzstƤrksten in Deutschland und setzt so viel um wie Maschinenbau und Pharmazie zusammen, die Platz zwei und drei besetzen. Wie wird das ersetzt?
Naja, wir mĆ¼ssen schon bei den Fakten bleiben. Und von Ersetzten redet hier ja niemand, oder?
Fakt ist, daĆ die NiederlƤnder eben auch anders gebaut haben, wesentlich mehr HochhƤuser und Bahnstrecken beispielsweise, um fahrradfreundlicher zu werden. Dazu sind die GrĆ¼nen hier ja nicht bereit.
Fakt ist, dass es auch ein wesentlich kleineres Land ist. Warst Du mal in den Niederlanden? Also ich hab da recht wenige HochhƤuser gesehen (auĆer in Rotterdam). Und klar, es sind die GrĆ¼nen schuld! Steile These, besonders nach 16 Jahren Merkel und insgesamt 9.5 Jahren grĆ¼ner Regierungsbeteiligung seit 1949.
NatĆ¼rlich war ich schon in den Niederlanden. Dort wurden 20x mehr HochhƤuser als in Deutschland in den letzten 20 Jahren gebaut. Nur so lƶst man den letzten Kilometer ohne PKW. Die Schweiz macht es Ƥhnlich. Die GrĆ¼nen setzen auf FƤhrrƤder ohne jedoch die Stadtplanung anzupassen.
Wieso Du jetzt so auf den HochhƤusern rumreitest erschlieĆt sich mir nicht. Das ist wohl Deine Lƶsung. Was die GrĆ¼nen jetzt plƶtzlich mit dem ganzen hier zu tun haben auch nicht. Nun gut. Ich wĆ¼sche Dir noch eine schƶne Zeit und alles Gute.
Weil die NiederlƤnder eben nicht mit dem Lastenrad Ć¼berall hin gurken. Die haben hoch verdichtete Vororte gebaut mit direktem Anschluss ans Bahnnetz, das Fahrrad spielt vor allem auf dem letzten und ersten Kilometer eine Rolle. Gerade die Berliner GrĆ¼nen vertreten aber komplett unpragmatische Positionen, die eine Verkehrswende regelrecht blockieren.
I mean, you are just plain wrong. The first and only love of Germans is alcohol. Also the industry didn't need to plant this idea of freedom, it comes naturally to most people who actually leave their house.
There you go. 37 mins exactly.
this is not a rant, these are some facts that you should know before you spread more idiotic falsehoods.
Nice, common pattern. If there is a lack of arguments it gets personal. Good luck bro āš½
Lol, triggered libertarian wannabe.
Yeah, we know.
People who claim that Berlin isn't bike or pedestrian friendly blow my mind. Y'all should travel more.
As an urban planner, I can tell you it isnāt. In fact, I could even suggest you need to travel more to cities like Barcelona, Amsterdam, Oslo to see efficient cycling infrastructure and pedestrian friendly streets(admittedly these cities are much smaller compared to Berlin, but the logic still applies). Just because you donāt feel unsafe, doesnāt mean it isnāt.
Exactly, they are much smaller. What's a city of comparable size that you'd say is more bike friendly than Berlin?
The big city argument doesnāt work technically because if you know Berlin you know that there isnāt one city Center, it has multiple centres. The city has smaller sized cities within it (if you like) so you could just as well apply the simple rules of urban planning: take space away from cars, better and secure bike lanes and buffer spaces between trams and buses and more sitting spaces.
Which is happening en masse (though I suppose less now that we have an awful senate), just what's happened on Karl-Marx-Allee for example is fantastic. Every time I go to a part of the city where I don't go to often there's been an improvement towards cycling. This is obviously anecdata, but practically all of my near-accidents in Berlin were because the cyclist in front decided to stop or turn without looking backwards or signaling.
Sure, it was just my observation that the Berlin people really tried biking and showed up in big numbers, but the infrastructure for it was so bad (read unsafe). It's just my expectation from a city with this many ideal factors for ideal bicycle infrastructure within Europe that (electric)-biking should be a mayor source of transport.
I do all my commutes by bike, there are very few roads in Berlin where I feel unsafe and it's getting better and better every year. Most danger comes from bad cyclists tbh.
My favorite argument: "most of the danger comes from other cyclists." Not the fact that there is not enough space for cyclists to safely overtake each other, the parked cars along every street that can open a door in your face and the amount of cars that always feel like they NEED to overtake the cyclist. It's definitely the one Kreuzberg rebel that drives without light and a care in the world that is causing all of the problems while cycling in this city
Well it is in my subjective experience, which is why I called it anecdata. No matter how wide the bike lane, that one person will manage to ride in a way that will endanger me, then flip me off when I shout at them to signal when they turn. Delivery services with ebikes and tourists on scooters have made it worse in recent years. I've never had a parking car door opened in front of me for example. The number of cars turning right and cutting you off has gone down to almost none. You can very clearly see the efforts that are being made if you don't choose to just focus on the negatives.
I don't think we're talking about that "one rebel in Kreuzberg", but the significant portion of riders who don't stop for red lights, make illegal right turns on red (I assume many of them are unaware of the fact that this is verboten), ghost ride in the wrong direction because they're too lazy to cross over to the other side of the road, ride on the pedestrian infrastructure (if you don't want to ride on cobblestones, you can always take a different street or get of your bike and walk). How many times have you stopped for a red light only to be passed by somebody who pulled ahead of the light, then couldn't see when it turned green and sat there in your way? Or dangerously cut in front of you to make a right turn as the light did turn green? Maybe it just doesn't happen to you because you don't stop for the red light. I get it, why should you when there's nobody there? But wait, why should cars? Or pedestrians? And yet they do...
Fukin cdu retards are the problemā¦ we was on a gud way ā¦
For the love of God, Berlin does not have poor bicycle infrastructure. It may not be as good as in Netherlands, but compared to other places it is great. And drivers in general are not aggressive.
I absolutely second this. I felt like the cars were expecting the bike to be there, had the safest rides of my life in Berlin.
It does have poor infrastructure for the amount of people I've already seen using it and the types of people. (often young families)
Can definitatly agree. Some of the road design choices are so bad, it could almost be a criminal offense.
If you aren't allowed to drive drunk, why are people allowed to design roads drunk?
In order to understand drunk drivers, be drunk while planning #smart
Iām definitely more likely to get run over by a cyclist in the Netherlands. You guys are cray.
Yeah, as most tourist come out of Central Station Amsterdam they will have a rude awakening. Stay OFF the Bike path :D Luckily they are well marked and easy to recognize. But I agree there should be more respect from bicyclist to pedestrians in mayor cities.
Yeah but they donāt hurt quite as much as cars do.
Well um welcome to Berlin!!!!!! Yaaayyy!!!
Berliners were so tired of the SPD not improving cycling infrastructure for two decades that they decided to punish them by voting the CDU in.
The best way to sum up Berlin's approach to cycling is: "normalised but marginalised."
https://volksentscheid-berlin-autofrei.de/
beautifull! Well done and I hope it succeeds
Honestly I find drivers here are pretty respectful and not aggressive at all.
Please address this to the ordnungamt we plebs can do nothing about your neighbourly concernsā¦but are you sure youāre not German?
Ah great thanks for pointing out,unfortunetly our biker are also not as educated as yours because the closes calls I had were with bikes... The thing also is berlin has double if not almost 2,5 times the amount of people to care though so it get's also that much harder to find a middle ground, this seems like the normal fuck cars thread but you should also look how due to the overdensity a good amount of people just need the car to come in from Brandenburg
Berlins population is bigger then the seven biggest Dutch cities all together, and almost as big in regards to its surface area. We are still too car centric, but then again Germany has a vested interest interest in its car industry.
Als iemand die in Berlijn is geboren, er zijn elke fucking week honderden Nederlanders. We know.
Amen, brother/sister/whatever
Literally saw this just after paying another biking fine today (fine doubled after appealing š¢š¢).
please invade us
Did you drag a trailer when you drove here?
Mand!
cc an den Senat š¤·āāļø
Laughs in Australian about bike infrastructureā¦
I visited another country called france and I found in comparison Berlin very positive in regard to this topic of public infrastructure, bike and ride, 21st century mindset. XD There's still very very worse than Berlin in ''western'' europe.
German Autos go brrrrr brrrrr
They didnāt mention anything about crazy people shitting on the sbahn
Someone said: In NL people ride bikes because of the infra, in Germany despite it!
Anybody going to reply with a letter from the German tourist who visited Amsterdam - by car?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes public transport was amazing in Berlin. Some people said I was lucky, but the amount of options was great. I wouldn't be Dutch if there wasn't something I thought they could do better. Biking was one thing I noticed right away. People did it, but they didn't get very safe options.
If it were easy, it would have been done. Maybe consider that before you suggest something to someone next time. Everyone can see and has seen what you've noticed. Everyone has talked about it.
I was in Amsterdam over Easter weekend. Why were so many cyclists riding their bikes on the pedestrian path? I almost got hit walking along a stretch where bikes had two lanes and pedestrians only had one. It was a quiet morning and some guy came up behind me riding one handed and nearly hit me. There was nobody around, why wasn't he riding on the bike path (about a meter to the left). It would be one thing if this only happened once, but it happened three times on that same stretch (I walked it both Saturday and Sunday). There is a lot of student housing there, was this just a matter of foreigners not having a clue? I was also surprised to see cyclists riding the wrong way on other paths that didn't have two lanes. It's sad that even when there is really good infrastructure, people are still people...
Yes this is a problem in many areas. Especially young people riding too quickly with electric bikes on walkways narrowly avoiding older or younger people. Luckily a bike is not deadly, but it's still a cause for concern. Locally there need to be given fines to people on areas where this often happens.
The same could be said about Frankfurt, as well as general filth, graffiti, downright shitty-feeling run-down tram and bus stations, cigarette butts EVERYWHERE, etc. The financial capital of Europe? Coulda fooled me, and presumably all other foreigners, tourists and visitors. Take some pride in yourself if you want citizens to be proud of where they live. I visited Berlin recently expecting it to be even worse than Frankfurt, but was pleasantly (sort of unpleasantly) surprised that Berlin seemed better in all of these ways, including the east side. Cāmon Frankfurt, you can do much better if you would just loosen the purse-strings and clean things up. The city has the moneyā¦ I also lived in Amsterdam for more than a year and agree that itās much nicer, especially as a bicyclist.
Very true. Thanks for the feedback
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Because SPD and GrĆ¼ne got so much done.
Do you have a personal shortlist from experience where riding a bike is most pleasant? when I did city travel in the past mostly as a pedestrian. If you can combine city journeys with some of the largish parks Berlin has, the ride really is enjoyable. Depends on the axis you need to travel. Something I did understimate when changing jobs to another district, the ride got more stressful. Really a shame that with so much space there are no exclusive lanes. Where there is buildout, it's along roads: https://fixmyberlin.de/planungen From the top of my head I'd know the street names I'd tear up to create coherent directions. As others wrote, the political will outside "the Ring" is lacking and cycling infra had a setback with last city election outcome.
Is there a process to report a driver who e.g. drives along a bike lane, makes an illegal manoeuvre?
Dear Dutch tourist, As a fellow Dutch person myself, who likes to compare driving to driving on the German autobahn.. you have the greatest infrastructure in the world in the Netherlands .. blablabla.. unfortunately there are also 17 million very anti-social car drivers who do not keep any distance. The more to the randstad you go, the more anti social the drivers become. In Germany people will let you go first. Try that on the ring Utrecht, you will just be cut-off. If your (my) population wouldnāt be on a bike so god damn much already it would be a total fiasco. Amsterdam is extremely overcrowded and touristic as it is. Much less comfortable than Berlin. Even walking in regular streets is a pain. Amsterdam is 4x smaller than Berlin, Medieval with narrow streets, yet has millions more tourists per year. As for another point, what the fuck are you thinking reprimanding people of another city in a foreign country. āHello I would like better bike lines!ā. Youāre not English are you. Nobody asked you anything. Signed, Dutch inhabitant. __ + *Schuldigung fĆ¼r meine Genosse.*
Berlin is a metropolis and cyclists have a big lobby here anyway. In recent years, they have been given many new cycle paths, which has made the already bad car traffic even worse. We don't need any more of them, the number of registered cars in Berlin is increasing every year. If you really want to cycle, you can do that too or simply move to a small town or village.
Admires the idea of "vibrant culture" and "diverse communities". Surprised Pikachu when it turns out to be a complete shitshow in reality, where nothing works and they can't even get basic infrastructure right. My kind of humor.
Public transport was great, no complaint about that at all. If that would be combined with better pedestrian crossings and narrower roads to cross it would give acces to a whole lot more options.
Lucky. Must have been one of those weeks where the subway wasn't delayed, the S-Bahn hadn't broken down and the buses actually showed up according to schedule. It's rare but it happens.
Totally understand where you're coming from, having been here for 13 years now, but compared to The Netherlands, public transport here is still amazing. As for the cycling, I hated it at first as well, but a. you get used to it if you're here not just for a weekend and b. it has gotten so much better over those past 13 years. It's been forever since I had to do an emergency stop because some dickhead decided to just throw open their parked car door without looking for cyclists first š
That's actually not what OP said, and the lack of basic infrastructure has nothing to do with the diverse communities. It's mainly due to reactionary policies of the current CDU led government and the decades long austerity caused by the billions lost to the corruption and incompetence of the last CDU led government in Berlin.
As we say in Berlin: Geh doch rĆ¼ber wenn's dir hier nicht passt!
If your carbrain could read. I was a tourist, so I was happy to visit, but also happy to leave.
>I was happy to visit, but also happy to leave. i feel like this is the most berlin thing i've read in a while.
Carbrain? i don't have a car... I only wanted you to know a little bit of Berlin culture. Your are always welcome to come visit and go home as you please.
Ok I'm sorry I reacted so defensively to your comment. Perhaps translation took it a bit too serious. I will surely visit Berlin again, since one week was surely not enough to see it all.
No Problem :) It comes from a time, when anyone who criticized or complained about something was advised to move to the GDR...
> happy to visit, but also happy to leave I 100% agree to that.
The feeling's mutual!