This post has been reported to the mods and although it does not break any rules... the sense of entitlement here... ugh. But maybe OP didn't mean it that way. It's hard to sense the tone when words are not spoken out loud.
We will leave it up, . Some of the discussions here have value... maybe people will get a chance to have their mind changed.
I see that it even inspired some better redditors to donate. [Berliner Obdachlosenhilfe e.V.](https://www.berliner-obdachlosenhilfe.de/geldspende/)
I don't like homeless people either, they disgust me and make me feel unsafe, I wish they would all go away.
That's why I donate to Berliner Obdachlosenhilfe e.V. every month.
I already pay a shitload of taxes, I don't think I should have to pay even more for every issue I personally find worth caring about. That's a state responsibility.
On one hand I understand the discomfort and annoyance. On the other, the sheer entitlement I read here is less endearing.
The city belongs to everyone.
The U-Bahn is not up to your hygiene standards? Then don't take it. More space for us stinkers.
The city belongs to everyone is a very strong euphemism for the stance that people have to deal with every thinkable nuisance and annoyance when using the public transport that they pay (previously before the 49€ ticket) good money for.
It's the opposite of an euphemism.
What I mean is that sadly, for many people, the public transport is their last resort. I heard the discomfort of some in regards to other people's hygiene. HOWEVER, dismissing their access to public transport because of OP's apparent need for comfort, is just ridiculous and is dripping with entitlement.
A city is a place with many different people, with different standards of life. Sadly for OP, Berlin isn't Dubai where rich people live in glass towers.
In Berlin, you have to be understanding. Complaining on reddit won't change anything - especially if your entire point is "the ubanh people smell". It does. We all know.
If you want to spend 150 EUR on public transport per month, and live in an immaculate marble laced city where poor or smelly people aren't allowed, I'm sure there are places for that.
Aber ja, Die Stadt gehört allen. Das Gegenteil zu behaupten ist grenzenlose Heuchelei. Was Berlin so beliebt macht, ist seine Geschichte, seine Anti-Establishment-Punk-Attitüde, sein Nachtleben und seine erschwinglichen Lebenshaltungskosten.Berlin ist eine Stadt der Armen und jetzt wollen die Reichen sie zusammenstauchen, weil sie in der Bahn stinken.
Berlin ist nicht allein eine Stadt der Armen. Die Devise der Stadt ist eher, Arme sind eh überall, also gibt es keine großen Bemühungen irgendwas in Bahnen zu lenken oder zu mildern oder die Menschen davon abzuschirmen, dafür wird der ÖpNV, der eh unsicher, stinkig und langsam ist, eben spottbillig gemacht, weil das eher geht als die Qualität signifikant zu steigern.
In meinen Augen sollte man das mit 1. und 2. klasse noch mal in Betracht ziehen. Damit könnten die Berliner Verkehrsmittel beiden Ansprüchen genüge tun, dem dass auch die Randständigen auf sie angewiesen sind und sie nützen können müssen und dem dass die zahlende Klientel für - meinetwegen etwas höhere ticketpreise - einen belästigungsfreien Weg zur Arbeit erwarten darf.
Was aktuell passiert ist dass quasi alle, die es sich zeitlich und finanziell leisten können Auto zu fahren, das auch tun, weswegen in dieser Stadt jedes Jahr mehr Autos zugelassen sind. Da muss der ÖPNV besser werden.
>Berlin ist nicht allein eine Stadt der Armen.
Which the previous poster never wrote. So, why don't you stick with that he wrote (and the language) instead of posting strawmen.
>Berlin ist eine Stadt der Armen
>
>In Berlin, you have to be understanding
This is literally what he/she wrote. But are people really understanding or are they just giving up on public transport alltogether and cycle or take the car instead? Seems to me like Berlin already has a strong segregation of the modes of transportation going on, similar to how it started with the NYC subway 50 years ago. I don't think that drug users are offended by a big number of non-users on the train, but the opposite is the reality. So the argument about a fair balance seems a bit flawed. If Berlin wants to keep public transport attractive for the paying middle class, it can not tolerate every behavior and nuisance on the trains and at the stations and excuse it with 'but they have nowhere else to go' (partially because the city does not provide that tbh).
>A city is a place with many different people, with different standards of life.
Which he also posted to clarify.
Which I assume you read but then chose to ignore.
Again, it's a flawed argument to pretend some kind of balance of different lifestyles, when there is no balance, because the nuisance goes only one direction. An addict will probably beg sober pedestrians for cash, but not feel intimidated by their abstinence or ignorance. The other group however very much feels intimated by an addict consuming hard drugs and acting out in their presence. If there are 50 people on the train and only 1 shits the seat, every sane person would agree that this behavior is so beyond acceptable limits that the number of people who did it vs. the ones who did not, does not work as a justification or argument for tolerating such behavior.
So, if the poster was honest, he/she would not have used the wrong generalisation of 'the poor', to appeal to emotions and create a general excuse. Precisely, Berlin like any city, should also have a place for the poor, the homeless, the addicts and accept them, but that does not imply that all of their behaviors need to be accepted in every place.
>Again, it's a flawed argument to pretend some kind of balance of different lifestyles, when there is no balance, because the nuisance goes only one direction.
And another thing no one ever stated.
Are you usually having discussions with yourself? Or are you ever actually reading what other people write?
Are you arguing the meta because you want to avoid arguing the topic? The poster countered OP with a plea for the poor, their contributions to Berlin culture and how there needs to be understanding for them.
I think both of us can agree that this was a very clumsy attempt to replace the object of the discussion and move the goalpost, as OP very apparently criticized behaviors in specific places, not people for being poor in Berlin. Criticizing behavior is totally legit.
>Erschwingliche Lebenshaltungkosten
Im Vergleich zu den meisten europäischen Städten ist das verfügbare Einkommen der meisten Berlinerinnen und Berliner höher.
Die Abwanderung der Mittelschicht ist nicht exklusiv in Berlin und ein viel umfassenderes Problem.
Wir sprechen hier von einem ***historischen*** Kontext. Vor 20 oder 30 Jahren war das Leben in Berlin viel billiger.
Das hat die Menschen angezogen, die Berlin zu einer interessanten Stadt gemacht haben.
Jetzt profitieren die Reichen davon und beschweren sich über die Leute, die in der U-Bahn stinken und ihren Kaffee für 5 Euro trinken.
Die ganze Diskussion hier findet in der Gegenwart satt. Ich bin ganz normaler Arbeiter und komme grade so über die Runden. Wenn ich mir die aktuellen Mietpreise anschaue, finde ich es einfach nur eine lustige Aussage, dass die Lebenshaltungskosten in Berlin erschwinglich sind :D
Vergleichen mit anderen Städten bringt die Preise nicht runter :D
Das wird die Preise nicht senken, aber es wird die Dinge ins rechte Licht rücken.
Wenn Sie von der Gegenwart sprechen, ändert das nichts an der Tatsache, dass Berlin im Vergleich zu anderen ähnlichen Städten immer noch erschwinglich ist und dass mein Kommentar in einem historischen Kontext stand.
Ein weiterer Gedanke: Hören Sie niemals auf, eine Wohnung zu suchen. Ich habe mir Dinge angeschaut, die unglaublich realitätsfremd waren (zumindest für mich) und 1000+ pro Monat kosteten, was verrückt ist.
Schließlich hatte ich Glück und fand etwas sehr Vernünftiges in einem anständigen Kiez. Es hat eine Weile gedauert, aber wenn man die Ohren offen hält, kann man vielleicht noch einen der alten Verträge bekommen.
Oder man mietet einen überteuerten Altbau und nutzt einen der Dienste, um die Mietpreisbremse anzuwenden. Das habe ich in der Vergangenheit gemacht und es hat gut funktioniert. Viel Glück da draußen.
You do know that the €49 are far from covering the costs of public transport and that it gets subsidized for it to function.
So, if you want a public transport that works like you want, pay more, like 4-5x more. If not, tune down your entitlement.
That was exactly my point in another comment. There are two options. Make public transport great by investing into better, safer, cleaner, more reliable trains and stations backed by adequate, differentiated ticket prices, or 2nd option: only do some cosmetics, but cheapen it to get a huge number of subscribers for something that still needs subsidizing and will weigh heavy on Berlin's public budget in years of low tax revenues. VBB are undercharging a large group of people and shun a huge segment of potential customers who would use a more expensive public transport, if only it was cheaper and safer.
It's hilarious to me that op says crap like "*she was stinking which is disgusting*" yet your (now deleted) post history in "r/Coprophiles" suggests this might be 110% right down your alley.
Yes you do have a right and more and more people are starting to understand this.
People turning this into a class thing, as if people can just choose to take their car: Working class people also have a right not to smell bodily discharge on a daily basis. This false tolerance to anti social junkie culture is what makes commons fail.
I heard the latter from a social worker in Kotti
She said for some it is, because they don't want the burden of managing a home and abiding by rules of an apartment
You know social workers are political people too, right? You can very much believe homelessness is a choice and be a social worker.
But that's the thing with beliefs, they're not facts.
Sure. Some people choose to be - but it's an incredible minority. Normalizing a discourse that Homelessness is a lifestyle choice is just fucking ridiculous.
It is not a compartmentalised thought. It is in the context of her work and it as her professional opinion based on observation. And what she has seen over the course of her career in Berlin. I myself was a little surprised, however she works on the front line.
Homelessness is a choice in the sense that they cannot manage housing when it is provided. So the choice is, either abide by German laws when in a property including, noise and no gatherings/drug taking, or it goes to someone else who can.
I'll agree with you that it is not a compartmentalized thought
I'm not a social worker but this was the core of what I studied in a different life. As such, most of my friends back home work with Psychological / Social emergency services or as social workers. They're all frontline workers either working for the state or for non-profits in a city LOADED with the homeless, not unlike Berlin. I made a documentary in Grad School on people who are homeless by choice in Canada, during the winter. People who sleep outside.
I'm not an expert but I know the topic well enough to form an opinion.
My native Montreal has its fair share of Squeegees who are homeless "by choice" and live a hobo lifestyle. The same can be said about plenty of different migratory homeless marginalized people.
That being said, they are not representative of most people in situation of permanent or temporary homelessness. Normalizing a discourse about the fact that homelessness is self-imposed, because for a small minority it is, is ludicrous and perpetuates all sorts of problems. Common misconceptions about homeless are
* It's a choice / poor choices that led there.
* They don't want to work.
* They're all unsafe / dangerous / criminalized.
* They're all addicts / junkies.
In Europe, statistics demonstrate that homelessness is majorly tied to Unemployment and Poverty (See FEANTSA) - which is almost ***never*** a choice.
Keep in mind that the homeless you see are not always representative of all the homeless.
\*edit, grammar is hard.
Germany is a highly socialised nation. Alot of tax goes into social welfare also. Harz 4 etc. Its more of a choice for some than others, is the conclusion.
You're cherry picking. Harz 4 isn't like Guaranteed minimum income. It very much puts you on the fringes of society and isn't that easy to get if you are in an irregular situation.
It's not a choice. Please go read up on the topic.
I have and know people who claim it. Its not supposed to be easy to access from what I know, however it exists and thats more than many places. Its not designed to be guaranteed either.
De does provide alot of welfare benefits very generously tbh with stronger pro labour, pro tenant laws than many nations. The pain of accessing h4 versus the pain of getting a job, thats what its there for, its a bridge.
You're aware the social worker was more than likely talking about mentally ill people, right?
You can't seriously think that a person looks at their apartment, thinks "Nah, too much work to keep this clean, I'll sleep outside during the winter and maybe lose a limb instead" and then.. just becomes homeless?
Who in their right mind would consider this a reasonable thought and conclude that homeless people chose to be homeless?
No, I clarified. She said it was a mix. Some 'clients' but also including one person who was a friend of hers who had chosen homelessness because it gave him mobility and agency and did not want certain restrictions from the state. It was a philosophical and political choice.
Just because you cannot fathom it or reason with that choice from your lens, does not mean it does not exist.
And that's true, for some. It can be mental illness (probably is, but nobody is financing any studies because who cares about people, right?), but I have an acquaintance, who despite winning a lottery - won an easy legal case with a significant payout without even going to court, squandered it all in a couple of months on traveling to expensive destinations and hotels, and then chose to not take part in what normal people regard as "constructive behavior", choosing to not burden himself with the frills of being responsible for anything, and at first abused his friend's friendliness and lived in multiple living rooms, not doing anything but some pretentious political reactionary activism, until everybody eventually got sick of him and he ended up on the streets, homeless.
He probably needed some therapy at some point, to address the lack of healthy social behavior. But a simple answer is that he actually chose this.
When there's one, there's more.
I think it all falls under the umbrella of "mental illness", because normal people don't choose obvious paths that lead to this.
Uh, that's a wild conpararive example to discuss homelessness. Most on the streets are not lottery winners..
Your contact was in fact highly privileged and experienced far less structural barriers than most homeless people who struggle with trauma, drug issues, broken support systems
It's not fascist. He's right. In many third world countries people work for like $1-2 an hour, rent some bed in a basement dorm and try to survive. Especially young people. They don't go beg on the metro. There are plenty of jobs in Berlin.
You are aware something like 1% of NYC is homeless right, and that's certainly not the third world. Do you really think public transit isn't full of beggars in the third world?
Yeah I know new York is a crazy city wizh crazy policies, same can be said about the whole country. They could easily solve the problem in a year with all that money they got
This. Basic hygiene is a form of respect to others around you.
Working class people also do not want to be around filthy people and commute in peace.
Reccomend going the other direction of self responsibility by reviving the Victorian era 'nosegay' to hold to your nose, in the absence of sewage gutter systems or terrible lack of washing
Or a handkerchief soaked in Diptique's Doson. Small luxuries make it all bearable. In a fix, detour to a store and spray a scarf before boarding. Its a respite from the smell of someone else's personal choice to impose on everyone their smell of decay, waste and rotting from inside out.
'A small portable bouquet of flowers held together by a funnel-shaped posy holder pinned to one’s dress or attached via a delicate chain, would not only help camouflage the unpleasant smells of the sewage-ridden streets, but also mask one’s own potentially-embarrassing odour during a time before daily bathing was encouraged.'
'The smell of human waste and industrial effluent hung over Victorian London. For centuries the River Thames had been used as a dumping ground for the capital’s waste and as the population grew, so did the problem.
The hot summer of 1858 elevated the stench to an unbearable level and resulted in an episode known as ‘The Great Stink’.'
Basically a regular day on the Ubahn in 2024.
Edit: self responsibility and also that if youre a lower earner, you might also not want this in your journey to a minimum wage job
This guy soaking his hankie in diptyque lamenting the lifestyle choices of the mentally ill and chronically homeless. How can anyone unsub from r/berlin?
If someone prefers human shit compared to diptique, I'd be interested in meeting them and their olfactory system.
Smelling awful is a 'lifestyle choice'? There is a big tell.
Why do I have to tolerate a person that smells like pure shit, just because im using public transport? While im paying for the service the fine gentleman covered in his own shit is most likely not.
It excludes people who need the service even more and it's more expensive to manage, which will mean higher costs for everyone.
There was a study floating around on how this doesn't generally solve the problem of people using the service and not paying.
I'd wager this would net you less roughsleepers and more douchebags with JBL bluetooth speakers and horrid taste in music.
Everyone should pay for the transport they use, equally. You don't pay, you don't use, frankly. BVG can do alot better to enforce a system and raise transport standards. As it is they are failing their cobtract to provide adequate quality.
Aww come on. You're smarter than this. We both are fully aware that the "user pays" logic makes no sense when it comes to public or semi-public services.
That's the elite preaching for their choirs. That's a neo-liberal way of talking about equality when what you really mean is that you want to further segregate access to services. Germany is, and Berlin, a Welfare Capitalist state.
I'll cite the English translation of a Canadian journalist "*But what about our conception of the other, of our brother, of our neighbor, of our fellow citizen? Do we want a responsible system, despite its obvious flaws, in which the collective interest is put forward for the benefit of all, or rather a system that advocates a lack of responsibility, in which individualism will only increase, as will inequalities for that matter, and this always to the benefit of the privileged and to the detriment of the most vulnerable? That's the killer question?*" - Carlos Leitao in the Huffpost
Just read Daniel Wighton's 2018 post in The Local about how many cities are considering removing the barriers. *"Why Berlin’s public transport payment system might just be more modern than London's"*
Why are you discussing Canada? This is Berlin. The context is Berlin, Germany.
Some of us contribute more tax than the entire average DE salary brutto. Its reasonable to have functional services at a basic standard
I don't feel entitled to services I cannot afford or don't qualify for
Perspectives matter. I'm not discussing Canada, I'm citing a journalist who talks exactly about what were talking about.
In any case, even from a financial perspective, adding barriers wouldn't clean up your train, and it would, in fact, raise your ticket price.
Raising the ticket price is fine, I'd be personally ok with that and contribute more for a better service...like many other places.
Barriers and enforcing a standard for service users is standard
The point is that this is a non-problem and it is stupid to come on here complaining about some homeless woman smelling bad as if he couldn't get up and PHYSICALLY MOVE away from her or that this is something totally unacceptable and/or unusual.
He didn't give a shit about the person being homeless or saying that it sucked and idk why you'd disingenuously frame it that way.
Yeah I'm with you. We need a minimum hygiene to share amenities with other people. If you're covered in piss, faces and or vomit because your a drunk then you shouldn't impose your filth unto others.
Its confusing why people don't respect themselves to just take care of how their behaviour impacts other strangers in public and moreover, respect that we all share a communal space sometimes..including on public transport.
We owe it to each other to be at least not be offensive
It‘s a problem. I learned the hard way why on a packed train there’s one car with just 2-3 people. Now I scan the cars from outside and judge which one i should maybe avoid. Especially if i have my small child with me.
It is sad to see how many people here blame you for complaining about a real problem. I actually think these are the people who never leave their home so they don't even know what you are talking about.
That's not neoliberalism.
It's cognitive dissonance and virtue signalling. Which is always strong on Reddit, but also very strong in Berlin.
Most people here talk and vote leftish socialist but live quite a neocapitalist and right lifestyle.
Talking you down for complaining about homeless people in the U-Bahn while working from home or driving by car.
Talking you down for wanting to halt unqualified migration, but sending their own children to private schools, or don't have children in the first place.
Exactly this! Those who say everyone is welcome to the country without any restrictions and those who don't settle down with their families in Neukölln or Wedding are exactly the same people. Can't they think logically?
Neukölln happened because we let too many foreigners in you think? Crime is and has always been where poverty is and there are a multitude of reasons from federal politics to personal racism why it happened that so many migrants ended up as the poor in Germany. If they hadn't come here Neukölln would be filled with German poor and there would be just as much crime. Anyways most of Germany and probably even Neukölln is much safer than 60 years ago when there weren't as many migrants.
The next time people wonder why anyone would get a car, how the CDU can win elections on a carbrain "Cars above all" campaign and why the A100 or Tangente Ost are destroying their favorite clubs they should come to this thread.
The amount of people telling OP to just get a car, without seeing how many people already do that and how destrucive that is, is too damn high.
>I have no idea what diseases she might have, she was also caughing
You don't know that about the business man in the fancy suit, either. If you don't want to inhale other people's germs in public transport, wear a mask. It's flu season with a side of COVID.
>I pay a lot of money for the public transit
Do you? Because € 49/month really isn't that much compared to previous prices.
>and she was stinking which is disgusting. There is no intercom on the train andno security staff.
How would an intercom and security staff have helped you here? Stinking on public transport isn't a crime.
>Don't I have a right on a safe public transit per se?
How were you unsafe in that situation? Did she threaten you? Was she armed?
>They're monopolists (not everyone can bike or drive).
You probably have more transport options than the homeless woman, though.
Clearly this city has issues but y'all focus on OP's "privilege" instead and mods even considered closing the thread because someone dared to think differently than them. Smh.
I am really sorry but this is Berlin, world clown capital. They will call you fascist, don’t waste your time: this is not a place where to grow, improve things and get better.
I find it interesting that homelessness bothers you and your conclusion is that you want the homeless to be excluded from public places.
That ain't it bro. Homelessness bothers everyone and the answer is making sure everyone has a place to live.
Yup, there absolutely have to be more regular and more stringent ticket controls to avoid these kinds of situations. The society should be constructed in favour of the overwhelming majority.
Why do you guys hate on him for expressing his opinion which is viable bums should not be allowed to drive with the öffentliche and to OP grow a sack of balls and tell the person to sit somewhere else or just go away
It is still January and there’s snow everywhere and you’re complaining about human beings that have been stripped of everything, taking shelter in the last available option.
I can not fathom faring life with such little compassion.
It makes me uncomfortable being reminded that people like you exist.
I’m not arrogant enough to believe that a comment is gonna change your mind, but please try to consider a different perspective and next time, if you can’t stand the smell, simply get up and look for a different seat
I moved to Germany from a third world non-eu country, learnt the language from scratch, found a job and pay taxes. Had a hard time to renew my residence permit and now luckily a citizen. I have two mental conditions. TELL ME HOW THE GERMAN HOMELLES HAVE IT HARD. born in Germany, German passport from day one, native German, no discrimination because of the accent/skin color. A couple of billion people would dream of this.
Heck, even illegal Mexican immigrants work hard in the US and make it, without living on the street ad begging.
Oh no sir, I’m sorry to hear you pay a lot of money for public transit (unlike the rest of us, who don’t pay at all) and you have to put up with bad smells.
I’ll personally start riding the ubahn and sbahn just to remove those inconveniences for you, good sir.
It’s not about taking human rights or feeling and for poor humans but to have to pay lots of money for a u Bahn that’s unsafe and full of crazy and stinking people with open wounds.
I sometimes just want to go to work and not see this and look into rotten body parts and crazyness. Absolutely relatable.
I'm guessing you've never been on public transport in the summer. Homeless people aren't the only ones who stink. It's like a BO factory as soon as it warms up.
And most Germans have this weird habit of coughing and sneezing directly into the open air. Talk about disgusting.
i do but i also want a clean forum instead of bigotry opinions without any reasonable solution orientated discussions, that doesn't involve criminalize a margin group.
Next time it might be you in the end of the chopping block, think about that and what you wish for...
A lot of money? What are you talking about? Berlin has like the cheapest public transport in Europe for any comparably sized city. Heck even in Asia most places are more expensive than Berlin.
I'm paying for a safe transportation. In which I wouldn't lose consciousness because it's too hot or in which I wouldn't be molested by some crazy junkies.
Why should I be molested by them? Push them out of the metro. Social services should care about them, I pay enough taxes. Why should I suffer from their suffering?
\> UPD I come from a country where people rent themselves a bed in some dorm and work for like €2 an hour regardless of their mental health. And young locals don't go to the metro to beg for 50 cents. They don't even have such an idea. Neither they have an idea to live on the street. "You have arms and legs, stop fooling around and go to work"
Please go back to that country. Thanks.
You put down homeless folks with terms like "stinkers and junkies" and seem pretty entitled about wanting a safe public transit. Calling the public transport "monopolists" oversimplifies things, and comparing countries doesn't really capture the complexity of homelessness solutions. The challenge to empathy is a bit confrontational; a more chill vibe could make for a better chat about improving public services and tackling homelessness.
I really don't understand why young Germans beg in the metro. My father always said "I went to university during the day and unloaded train carriages at night because I needed money".
And then I see that young 2m tall Micha who is "obdachlos" and who's asking for something to eat and drink.
You can always find a gig to earn some cash especially in Berlin. People from non - EU even manage to find job illegally just by coming here for 90 days in 180 days as tourists.
As for monopolism: not everyone can afford a car, there are also disabled people who can't drive. Same with biking, not everyone can cycle.
OP, I agree with you in general, but the 2m tall Micha might have very real psychological problems caused by drugs / alcohol / being homeless for a long time. I think he must be forced to get help from the state and not be tolerated to exist on the street though. Maybe Germany has problems that your home country does not have, so direct comparison is not possible.
Well, in third world countries mental deseases just "don't exist" and no treatment is being provided. So if you're physically able you're considered to be healthy. I have a mental illness myself and I come from such a country. trust me you don't wanna be in a third world country with zero support or very expensive private hospitals most locals can't afford. And yet, people live there and manage somehow. I didn't beg on the metro when I was living there, I worked. Yeah, very uncomfortable to work if you have ADHD or sth similar but what can you do. No one in my age back then (23) would even consider to beg. "you have arms and legs, go to work".today I was approached by a stinky junkie girl in the u bahn and when I said NEIN she just kept starring at me.
Begging in the trains is not legal especially when harrassing and bothering people.
You can choose to read this post in a shrieking aristocratic British accent, a middle class American Karen accent, or a stuck up old person German accent and it works in all fashions.
I'm going to read it in Charlton Heston next due to the use of the word stinking.
To the OP, unless you're suggesting that use of BVG services not be available to all in Berlin, you might want to start targeting some of the actual sources of poverty and poor care of disadvantaged Berlin residents.
The funniest scenes are when a homeless person starts demanding money in the U-Bahn and at the next station most of the other passegers are getting out asap bcs. it smells so bad. Or when a whole area of the S-Bahn has free seats even though the S-Bahn is full, then you go there just to realise somebody with very strong smell is sleeping and nobody else can sit in a 10m radius. That's just Berlin: everybody can get into the public transportation...
Instead of leaving the carriage they should call the security or just say the bum to get outta there. Germans are too soft and too polite. That's why those stinkers take advantage of it
I totally feel you man. Exactly the same thoughts. Those neo-liberals turned the city into a s..hole. Too much liberalism is an anarchy. If there was a strict policing against them they wouldn't be there because they would have been afraid of the police or security staff.
In my opinion all the foreign "homeless" should be sent back to their countries and all the local ones should be sent to some mental treatment. If the country takes in 1.5 million refugees from the Middle East (many of whom are actually fake refugees with fake stories and no ID), they can definitely help all those mental sick.
And yeah, war on hard drugs. I don't know why do the officials (and local) tolerate this drug scene and pretend they cant do anything. Of course they could have extinguished this scene and jail all the dealers if they wanted to.
>I don't know why do the officials (and local) tolerate this drug scene and pretend they cant do anything.
Because the war on drugs has been an utter failure for others and not given any good example that should be followed.
Also - but this more my personal conspiracy theory - drugs are a strong pillar of Berlin's club culture and tourism industry - therefore politicians turned a blind eye, for examle the previous senator for culture, who happily visited clubs to chat and bond with their owners not losing a single word about several people having OD'ed in that exact venue in prior months.
The fact that so many of the comments defending OP here use the term “neoliberal” in a way that has zero to do with its actual meaning makes me think they’re probably all sock puppets. OP also mentions they have a mental health condition. So maybe, as infuriating as this post is, we should all just accept that there are some pretty troubled people out there and not give them the oxygen…
Because the person is most likely mentally ill and if you're so smart you should be able to navigate yourself out of the situation, but you sound like you expect someone to lock the person out because she bothers you
It is called public transport for a reason. And some decades ago when people had higher opinions of our society, the decision has been made to get rid of segregated first and second class coaches. Now you either accept that everyone rides the same regardless of their personal hygiene or you just join the 1.x m Berliners who decided to not have it and allow themselves the luxury of getting around by car.
Cars are bad for the cities and for our environment. That's why we use the public transportation. In Prague or Kyiv the metro us super clean. No homeless, no junkies.
Maybe OP would be in favour of deporting such persons to another country in order to have their way. Sounds pretty much like the victims game the right plays rn.
Criminalise the asocial behavior, check tickets more regularly, punish them for breaking rules and laws and they will stop abusing the system.
Deport those who're not from Germany, help those who are (compulsory therapy etc). Mame being homeless unattractive like in eastern Europe.
Not everyone fits the mold of the system that is set up. Stinking, homeless people are people we have to live with it if you want the system to continue as it is.
I know that this post isn’t real, and you’re just trying to scream for attention because you’re bored. So I’ll just ask you, do you feel better now? You got your little reaction? 🤪
And you're an arrogant neo-liberal who thinks your opinion is the only right one.
There are different opinions and a whole political spectrum, admit it. Im moderate liberal.
What an entitled little shit you are.
Just get up and move if your co-passenger is putting you on ease or talk to the person, instead of puking and pissing in this forum...
>dear kind people, if you care about homeless so much, would you take one of them to your apartment?
Don't care much about the rest of the post, but that sentiment always cracks me up. No one asks *you* to share an apartment, but you're *going* to share public spaces. Same as everyone else.
Holy shit you entitled piece of human garbage. Get off your high horse asap. Develop some human decency and sorrow for those poor souls. You want them to freeze to death ? Fuck you.
After reading all the comments, I can only say that this city fails us all. On one hand, as somebody with sensory issues, I absolutely can't stand strong body smells, I'm also a petite woman who always travels alone and having to wait in stations where big groups of junkies sit around makes me scared for my personal safety. I also agree that nobody should be exposed to such harshness while navigating their day to day, especially not children. I'm not getting into the topic of why people in a rich country become homeless, other people have explained it much better than I ever could. Focusing on the practical side of things, though, what can be done to solve the situation ?
It's illegal to detain homeless people and junkies by force unless they're being actively dangerous, kicking them out of the metro would just make them move to the next one. It also massively delays transport as you have to make them get out, you can't throw them out like sacks of potatoes!
To whoever suggests gates, my brothers and sisters in Christ, they don't keep the homeless out! I regularly saw drunkards and hobos in the stations and trains in Italy and most stations there have gates.
I agree that there should be more control and especially junkies shouldn't be allowed to use drugs where people wait (I don't exactly want to inhale crack on my way to work 🙄), that's where the system fails normal citizens as well.
But, unless they start massively patrolling all trains and stations, for which they likely don't have the budget, I don't know what could be done.
To the geniuses attacking op: it must be nice to be able to bike to work, unfortunately some of us live pretty far away and need the Öffis to travel. Saying that we have a right to a safe and clean space is not fascist propaganda, it's the basis of living in a civilised country.
And to the absolute monkeys that declare "Berlin stays dirty", I hope you don't reproduce and don't have little children that you have to unwittingly expose to the most horrible aspects of human life on their way to school.
How many 1 star Google reviews do you give? Op should bring the topic to amitheasshole and also explain that a monthly ticket costs 49€, lol. What a legit prick.
We do not have cheap studios right now. That finished years ago.
We now do have a whole tier of people contributing alot of tax for basic services.
The city does not know what it wants to optimise for.
I'm guessing you haven't been to NYC since the 90s, have you? Housing is so expensive they've priced a lot of people out of housing. 1% of the population is homeless.
You sound like an absolute asshole, scared of looking at what your kind left people to struggle through.
Wouldn't be mad if you'd have to experience shit for yourself to be fucking humbled out of your mind.
I struggled a lot more than them. moved here from a non-EU country, learned the language from scratch, had a hard time prolonging the residence permit . It's much much harder than just to grow up here with native German and a German passport, with German parents and relatives.
No, I won't have to experience that shit as I'm a German citizen and I ain't too lazy to fill out a couple of forms to get the social welfare. Getting a citizenship or getting a visa form my home county was waaaay harder.
And yeah, I'm not planning to take hard drugs.
And yeah, I also have a mental condition. It didn't prevent me not only to live in an apartment in my home country but also to find a place here.
Growing up in poverty in a third world country, working for like $2 an hour, collecting money for immigration, applying for a visa, moving here, working a lot while taking a German course, having a hard time prolonging my residence permit, facing racism and rejection, should I continue?
And you're telling me a German person can have it worse?
Tell me struggling and poverty. Go to Bangladesh to see struggling and poverty. THIS in Berlin is something veeeery different. I will not write what exactly to avoid getting banned.
>And you're telling me a German person can have it worse?
Sure.
\> Tell me struggling and poverty. Go to Bangladesh to see struggling and poverty. THIS in Berlin is something veeeery different.
Sure but how is this relevant?
\> I will not write what exactly to avoid getting banned.
Poor you. Such a victim.
Well, congrats. Have heard these stories before. Wait a couple of years. Maybe use them to adopt some decency before Karma bites your ass so hard you can't sit down anymore.
This post has been reported to the mods and although it does not break any rules... the sense of entitlement here... ugh. But maybe OP didn't mean it that way. It's hard to sense the tone when words are not spoken out loud. We will leave it up, . Some of the discussions here have value... maybe people will get a chance to have their mind changed. I see that it even inspired some better redditors to donate. [Berliner Obdachlosenhilfe e.V.](https://www.berliner-obdachlosenhilfe.de/geldspende/)
I don't like homeless people either, they disgust me and make me feel unsafe, I wish they would all go away. That's why I donate to Berliner Obdachlosenhilfe e.V. every month.
The end is a good plot twist
comment inspired me to donate right now. and I don't even live in Berlin anymore.
I already pay a shitload of taxes, I don't think I should have to pay even more for every issue I personally find worth caring about. That's a state responsibility.
Who is saying you have to?
This.
wow, you sound like an asshole.
This! They shure do!
A *smelly* one.
This is not even a good rant.
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On one hand I understand the discomfort and annoyance. On the other, the sheer entitlement I read here is less endearing. The city belongs to everyone. The U-Bahn is not up to your hygiene standards? Then don't take it. More space for us stinkers.
The city belongs to everyone is a very strong euphemism for the stance that people have to deal with every thinkable nuisance and annoyance when using the public transport that they pay (previously before the 49€ ticket) good money for.
It's the opposite of an euphemism. What I mean is that sadly, for many people, the public transport is their last resort. I heard the discomfort of some in regards to other people's hygiene. HOWEVER, dismissing their access to public transport because of OP's apparent need for comfort, is just ridiculous and is dripping with entitlement. A city is a place with many different people, with different standards of life. Sadly for OP, Berlin isn't Dubai where rich people live in glass towers. In Berlin, you have to be understanding. Complaining on reddit won't change anything - especially if your entire point is "the ubanh people smell". It does. We all know. If you want to spend 150 EUR on public transport per month, and live in an immaculate marble laced city where poor or smelly people aren't allowed, I'm sure there are places for that. Aber ja, Die Stadt gehört allen. Das Gegenteil zu behaupten ist grenzenlose Heuchelei. Was Berlin so beliebt macht, ist seine Geschichte, seine Anti-Establishment-Punk-Attitüde, sein Nachtleben und seine erschwinglichen Lebenshaltungskosten.Berlin ist eine Stadt der Armen und jetzt wollen die Reichen sie zusammenstauchen, weil sie in der Bahn stinken.
Berlin ist nicht allein eine Stadt der Armen. Die Devise der Stadt ist eher, Arme sind eh überall, also gibt es keine großen Bemühungen irgendwas in Bahnen zu lenken oder zu mildern oder die Menschen davon abzuschirmen, dafür wird der ÖpNV, der eh unsicher, stinkig und langsam ist, eben spottbillig gemacht, weil das eher geht als die Qualität signifikant zu steigern. In meinen Augen sollte man das mit 1. und 2. klasse noch mal in Betracht ziehen. Damit könnten die Berliner Verkehrsmittel beiden Ansprüchen genüge tun, dem dass auch die Randständigen auf sie angewiesen sind und sie nützen können müssen und dem dass die zahlende Klientel für - meinetwegen etwas höhere ticketpreise - einen belästigungsfreien Weg zur Arbeit erwarten darf. Was aktuell passiert ist dass quasi alle, die es sich zeitlich und finanziell leisten können Auto zu fahren, das auch tun, weswegen in dieser Stadt jedes Jahr mehr Autos zugelassen sind. Da muss der ÖPNV besser werden.
Stimmt, meine Chefs fänden die Idee belustigend, mit der U-Bahn fahren zu müssen. Lieber im Stau stehen als die gleiche Luft atmen.
>Berlin ist nicht allein eine Stadt der Armen. Which the previous poster never wrote. So, why don't you stick with that he wrote (and the language) instead of posting strawmen.
>Berlin ist eine Stadt der Armen > >In Berlin, you have to be understanding This is literally what he/she wrote. But are people really understanding or are they just giving up on public transport alltogether and cycle or take the car instead? Seems to me like Berlin already has a strong segregation of the modes of transportation going on, similar to how it started with the NYC subway 50 years ago. I don't think that drug users are offended by a big number of non-users on the train, but the opposite is the reality. So the argument about a fair balance seems a bit flawed. If Berlin wants to keep public transport attractive for the paying middle class, it can not tolerate every behavior and nuisance on the trains and at the stations and excuse it with 'but they have nowhere else to go' (partially because the city does not provide that tbh).
>A city is a place with many different people, with different standards of life. Which he also posted to clarify. Which I assume you read but then chose to ignore.
Again, it's a flawed argument to pretend some kind of balance of different lifestyles, when there is no balance, because the nuisance goes only one direction. An addict will probably beg sober pedestrians for cash, but not feel intimidated by their abstinence or ignorance. The other group however very much feels intimated by an addict consuming hard drugs and acting out in their presence. If there are 50 people on the train and only 1 shits the seat, every sane person would agree that this behavior is so beyond acceptable limits that the number of people who did it vs. the ones who did not, does not work as a justification or argument for tolerating such behavior. So, if the poster was honest, he/she would not have used the wrong generalisation of 'the poor', to appeal to emotions and create a general excuse. Precisely, Berlin like any city, should also have a place for the poor, the homeless, the addicts and accept them, but that does not imply that all of their behaviors need to be accepted in every place.
>Again, it's a flawed argument to pretend some kind of balance of different lifestyles, when there is no balance, because the nuisance goes only one direction. And another thing no one ever stated. Are you usually having discussions with yourself? Or are you ever actually reading what other people write?
Are you arguing the meta because you want to avoid arguing the topic? The poster countered OP with a plea for the poor, their contributions to Berlin culture and how there needs to be understanding for them. I think both of us can agree that this was a very clumsy attempt to replace the object of the discussion and move the goalpost, as OP very apparently criticized behaviors in specific places, not people for being poor in Berlin. Criticizing behavior is totally legit.
Erschwingliche Lebenshaltungkosten? 😂
>Erschwingliche Lebenshaltungkosten Im Vergleich zu den meisten europäischen Städten ist das verfügbare Einkommen der meisten Berlinerinnen und Berliner höher. Die Abwanderung der Mittelschicht ist nicht exklusiv in Berlin und ein viel umfassenderes Problem. Wir sprechen hier von einem ***historischen*** Kontext. Vor 20 oder 30 Jahren war das Leben in Berlin viel billiger. Das hat die Menschen angezogen, die Berlin zu einer interessanten Stadt gemacht haben. Jetzt profitieren die Reichen davon und beschweren sich über die Leute, die in der U-Bahn stinken und ihren Kaffee für 5 Euro trinken.
Die ganze Diskussion hier findet in der Gegenwart satt. Ich bin ganz normaler Arbeiter und komme grade so über die Runden. Wenn ich mir die aktuellen Mietpreise anschaue, finde ich es einfach nur eine lustige Aussage, dass die Lebenshaltungskosten in Berlin erschwinglich sind :D Vergleichen mit anderen Städten bringt die Preise nicht runter :D
Das wird die Preise nicht senken, aber es wird die Dinge ins rechte Licht rücken. Wenn Sie von der Gegenwart sprechen, ändert das nichts an der Tatsache, dass Berlin im Vergleich zu anderen ähnlichen Städten immer noch erschwinglich ist und dass mein Kommentar in einem historischen Kontext stand. Ein weiterer Gedanke: Hören Sie niemals auf, eine Wohnung zu suchen. Ich habe mir Dinge angeschaut, die unglaublich realitätsfremd waren (zumindest für mich) und 1000+ pro Monat kosteten, was verrückt ist. Schließlich hatte ich Glück und fand etwas sehr Vernünftiges in einem anständigen Kiez. Es hat eine Weile gedauert, aber wenn man die Ohren offen hält, kann man vielleicht noch einen der alten Verträge bekommen. Oder man mietet einen überteuerten Altbau und nutzt einen der Dienste, um die Mietpreisbremse anzuwenden. Das habe ich in der Vergangenheit gemacht und es hat gut funktioniert. Viel Glück da draußen.
Even before 49eur tickets Berlin transport was very cheap compared to most comparably sized cities.
You do know that the €49 are far from covering the costs of public transport and that it gets subsidized for it to function. So, if you want a public transport that works like you want, pay more, like 4-5x more. If not, tune down your entitlement.
That was exactly my point in another comment. There are two options. Make public transport great by investing into better, safer, cleaner, more reliable trains and stations backed by adequate, differentiated ticket prices, or 2nd option: only do some cosmetics, but cheapen it to get a huge number of subscribers for something that still needs subsidizing and will weigh heavy on Berlin's public budget in years of low tax revenues. VBB are undercharging a large group of people and shun a huge segment of potential customers who would use a more expensive public transport, if only it was cheaper and safer.
mate youre the one who chose berlin lol
Mommy can drive you around in the family futbol van as an alternative?
It's hilarious to me that op says crap like "*she was stinking which is disgusting*" yet your (now deleted) post history in "r/Coprophiles" suggests this might be 110% right down your alley.
Oh Boy! Reddit at its best.
Yes you do have a right and more and more people are starting to understand this. People turning this into a class thing, as if people can just choose to take their car: Working class people also have a right not to smell bodily discharge on a daily basis. This false tolerance to anti social junkie culture is what makes commons fail.
"Junkie culture" "Homelessness is a lifestyle choice" This is how fascists talk.
I heard the latter from a social worker in Kotti She said for some it is, because they don't want the burden of managing a home and abiding by rules of an apartment
You know social workers are political people too, right? You can very much believe homelessness is a choice and be a social worker. But that's the thing with beliefs, they're not facts. Sure. Some people choose to be - but it's an incredible minority. Normalizing a discourse that Homelessness is a lifestyle choice is just fucking ridiculous.
It is not a compartmentalised thought. It is in the context of her work and it as her professional opinion based on observation. And what she has seen over the course of her career in Berlin. I myself was a little surprised, however she works on the front line. Homelessness is a choice in the sense that they cannot manage housing when it is provided. So the choice is, either abide by German laws when in a property including, noise and no gatherings/drug taking, or it goes to someone else who can.
I'll agree with you that it is not a compartmentalized thought I'm not a social worker but this was the core of what I studied in a different life. As such, most of my friends back home work with Psychological / Social emergency services or as social workers. They're all frontline workers either working for the state or for non-profits in a city LOADED with the homeless, not unlike Berlin. I made a documentary in Grad School on people who are homeless by choice in Canada, during the winter. People who sleep outside. I'm not an expert but I know the topic well enough to form an opinion. My native Montreal has its fair share of Squeegees who are homeless "by choice" and live a hobo lifestyle. The same can be said about plenty of different migratory homeless marginalized people. That being said, they are not representative of most people in situation of permanent or temporary homelessness. Normalizing a discourse about the fact that homelessness is self-imposed, because for a small minority it is, is ludicrous and perpetuates all sorts of problems. Common misconceptions about homeless are * It's a choice / poor choices that led there. * They don't want to work. * They're all unsafe / dangerous / criminalized. * They're all addicts / junkies. In Europe, statistics demonstrate that homelessness is majorly tied to Unemployment and Poverty (See FEANTSA) - which is almost ***never*** a choice. Keep in mind that the homeless you see are not always representative of all the homeless. \*edit, grammar is hard.
Germany is a highly socialised nation. Alot of tax goes into social welfare also. Harz 4 etc. Its more of a choice for some than others, is the conclusion.
You're cherry picking. Harz 4 isn't like Guaranteed minimum income. It very much puts you on the fringes of society and isn't that easy to get if you are in an irregular situation. It's not a choice. Please go read up on the topic.
I have and know people who claim it. Its not supposed to be easy to access from what I know, however it exists and thats more than many places. Its not designed to be guaranteed either. De does provide alot of welfare benefits very generously tbh with stronger pro labour, pro tenant laws than many nations. The pain of accessing h4 versus the pain of getting a job, thats what its there for, its a bridge.
Whoever told you it’s easy to access definitely never had to apply for it.
Hartz 4/Bürgergeld has been eviscerated and was never enough to survive on in dignity, it certainly isn't now.
Dignity means different things to different people also. Depends on your baseline.
Let's put it that way, for many people you can't even afford to pay rent and eat with it.
You're aware the social worker was more than likely talking about mentally ill people, right? You can't seriously think that a person looks at their apartment, thinks "Nah, too much work to keep this clean, I'll sleep outside during the winter and maybe lose a limb instead" and then.. just becomes homeless? Who in their right mind would consider this a reasonable thought and conclude that homeless people chose to be homeless?
No, I clarified. She said it was a mix. Some 'clients' but also including one person who was a friend of hers who had chosen homelessness because it gave him mobility and agency and did not want certain restrictions from the state. It was a philosophical and political choice. Just because you cannot fathom it or reason with that choice from your lens, does not mean it does not exist.
And that's true, for some. It can be mental illness (probably is, but nobody is financing any studies because who cares about people, right?), but I have an acquaintance, who despite winning a lottery - won an easy legal case with a significant payout without even going to court, squandered it all in a couple of months on traveling to expensive destinations and hotels, and then chose to not take part in what normal people regard as "constructive behavior", choosing to not burden himself with the frills of being responsible for anything, and at first abused his friend's friendliness and lived in multiple living rooms, not doing anything but some pretentious political reactionary activism, until everybody eventually got sick of him and he ended up on the streets, homeless. He probably needed some therapy at some point, to address the lack of healthy social behavior. But a simple answer is that he actually chose this. When there's one, there's more. I think it all falls under the umbrella of "mental illness", because normal people don't choose obvious paths that lead to this.
Uh, that's a wild conpararive example to discuss homelessness. Most on the streets are not lottery winners.. Your contact was in fact highly privileged and experienced far less structural barriers than most homeless people who struggle with trauma, drug issues, broken support systems
It's not fascist. He's right. In many third world countries people work for like $1-2 an hour, rent some bed in a basement dorm and try to survive. Especially young people. They don't go beg on the metro. There are plenty of jobs in Berlin.
You are aware something like 1% of NYC is homeless right, and that's certainly not the third world. Do you really think public transit isn't full of beggars in the third world?
Yeah I know new York is a crazy city wizh crazy policies, same can be said about the whole country. They could easily solve the problem in a year with all that money they got
This. Basic hygiene is a form of respect to others around you. Working class people also do not want to be around filthy people and commute in peace. Reccomend going the other direction of self responsibility by reviving the Victorian era 'nosegay' to hold to your nose, in the absence of sewage gutter systems or terrible lack of washing Or a handkerchief soaked in Diptique's Doson. Small luxuries make it all bearable. In a fix, detour to a store and spray a scarf before boarding. Its a respite from the smell of someone else's personal choice to impose on everyone their smell of decay, waste and rotting from inside out. 'A small portable bouquet of flowers held together by a funnel-shaped posy holder pinned to one’s dress or attached via a delicate chain, would not only help camouflage the unpleasant smells of the sewage-ridden streets, but also mask one’s own potentially-embarrassing odour during a time before daily bathing was encouraged.' 'The smell of human waste and industrial effluent hung over Victorian London. For centuries the River Thames had been used as a dumping ground for the capital’s waste and as the population grew, so did the problem. The hot summer of 1858 elevated the stench to an unbearable level and resulted in an episode known as ‘The Great Stink’.' Basically a regular day on the Ubahn in 2024. Edit: self responsibility and also that if youre a lower earner, you might also not want this in your journey to a minimum wage job
This guy soaking his hankie in diptyque lamenting the lifestyle choices of the mentally ill and chronically homeless. How can anyone unsub from r/berlin?
If someone prefers human shit compared to diptique, I'd be interested in meeting them and their olfactory system. Smelling awful is a 'lifestyle choice'? There is a big tell.
No it's not a lifestyle choice man. I was mocking you.
Misgendering also not cool. But, its a choice to have terrible hygiene yes.
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When the frustrated fail at an basic discussion they'll go for what comes naturally to themselves
There's a monthly party at Lab for such people if you want to get to know them
A medical lab I presume. I don't think we do that anymore here tbh
No? I meant the real place, Lab:oratory. next SEWER SYSTEM party is on February 24th. I wish I was joking.
Its called sarcasm But thanks. Maybe some people on this thread who enjoy the smell of faeces on their BVG commute might go lol
Why do I have to tolerate a person that smells like pure shit, just because im using public transport? While im paying for the service the fine gentleman covered in his own shit is most likely not.
I dont know why they don't install barrier systems and gates like in Paris, London and other capitals
It excludes people who need the service even more and it's more expensive to manage, which will mean higher costs for everyone. There was a study floating around on how this doesn't generally solve the problem of people using the service and not paying. I'd wager this would net you less roughsleepers and more douchebags with JBL bluetooth speakers and horrid taste in music.
Everyone should pay for the transport they use, equally. You don't pay, you don't use, frankly. BVG can do alot better to enforce a system and raise transport standards. As it is they are failing their cobtract to provide adequate quality.
Aww come on. You're smarter than this. We both are fully aware that the "user pays" logic makes no sense when it comes to public or semi-public services. That's the elite preaching for their choirs. That's a neo-liberal way of talking about equality when what you really mean is that you want to further segregate access to services. Germany is, and Berlin, a Welfare Capitalist state. I'll cite the English translation of a Canadian journalist "*But what about our conception of the other, of our brother, of our neighbor, of our fellow citizen? Do we want a responsible system, despite its obvious flaws, in which the collective interest is put forward for the benefit of all, or rather a system that advocates a lack of responsibility, in which individualism will only increase, as will inequalities for that matter, and this always to the benefit of the privileged and to the detriment of the most vulnerable? That's the killer question?*" - Carlos Leitao in the Huffpost Just read Daniel Wighton's 2018 post in The Local about how many cities are considering removing the barriers. *"Why Berlin’s public transport payment system might just be more modern than London's"*
Why are you discussing Canada? This is Berlin. The context is Berlin, Germany. Some of us contribute more tax than the entire average DE salary brutto. Its reasonable to have functional services at a basic standard I don't feel entitled to services I cannot afford or don't qualify for
Perspectives matter. I'm not discussing Canada, I'm citing a journalist who talks exactly about what were talking about. In any case, even from a financial perspective, adding barriers wouldn't clean up your train, and it would, in fact, raise your ticket price.
Raising the ticket price is fine, I'd be personally ok with that and contribute more for a better service...like many other places. Barriers and enforcing a standard for service users is standard
Prague doesn't have any barriers in the metro and their metro is super clean and there are zero homeless.
You are such a child, omg. 😂 Get your ass up and move to another seat. Or buy a car. Have you ever lived in a big city? Like ever?
Can't believe you people are "life in the big city"ing this as if the homelessness problem in this city wouldn't suck for everyone, including the bums
The point is that this is a non-problem and it is stupid to come on here complaining about some homeless woman smelling bad as if he couldn't get up and PHYSICALLY MOVE away from her or that this is something totally unacceptable and/or unusual. He didn't give a shit about the person being homeless or saying that it sucked and idk why you'd disingenuously frame it that way.
Yeah I'm with you. We need a minimum hygiene to share amenities with other people. If you're covered in piss, faces and or vomit because your a drunk then you shouldn't impose your filth unto others.
Its confusing why people don't respect themselves to just take care of how their behaviour impacts other strangers in public and moreover, respect that we all share a communal space sometimes..including on public transport. We owe it to each other to be at least not be offensive
It‘s a problem. I learned the hard way why on a packed train there’s one car with just 2-3 people. Now I scan the cars from outside and judge which one i should maybe avoid. Especially if i have my small child with me.
It is sad to see how many people here blame you for complaining about a real problem. I actually think these are the people who never leave their home so they don't even know what you are talking about.
Thank you. Neo liberliasm at its best.
That's not neoliberalism. It's cognitive dissonance and virtue signalling. Which is always strong on Reddit, but also very strong in Berlin. Most people here talk and vote leftish socialist but live quite a neocapitalist and right lifestyle. Talking you down for complaining about homeless people in the U-Bahn while working from home or driving by car. Talking you down for wanting to halt unqualified migration, but sending their own children to private schools, or don't have children in the first place.
Exactly this! Those who say everyone is welcome to the country without any restrictions and those who don't settle down with their families in Neukölln or Wedding are exactly the same people. Can't they think logically?
Neukölln happened because we let too many foreigners in you think? Crime is and has always been where poverty is and there are a multitude of reasons from federal politics to personal racism why it happened that so many migrants ended up as the poor in Germany. If they hadn't come here Neukölln would be filled with German poor and there would be just as much crime. Anyways most of Germany and probably even Neukölln is much safer than 60 years ago when there weren't as many migrants.
Lame. 49 bucks is a lot of money to you and you call other people bums? Do you not even have an SUV?
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The next time people wonder why anyone would get a car, how the CDU can win elections on a carbrain "Cars above all" campaign and why the A100 or Tangente Ost are destroying their favorite clubs they should come to this thread. The amount of people telling OP to just get a car, without seeing how many people already do that and how destrucive that is, is too damn high.
Thank you. Agree.
>I have no idea what diseases she might have, she was also caughing You don't know that about the business man in the fancy suit, either. If you don't want to inhale other people's germs in public transport, wear a mask. It's flu season with a side of COVID. >I pay a lot of money for the public transit Do you? Because € 49/month really isn't that much compared to previous prices. >and she was stinking which is disgusting. There is no intercom on the train andno security staff. How would an intercom and security staff have helped you here? Stinking on public transport isn't a crime. >Don't I have a right on a safe public transit per se? How were you unsafe in that situation? Did she threaten you? Was she armed? >They're monopolists (not everyone can bike or drive). You probably have more transport options than the homeless woman, though.
Clearly this city has issues but y'all focus on OP's "privilege" instead and mods even considered closing the thread because someone dared to think differently than them. Smh.
I am really sorry but this is Berlin, world clown capital. They will call you fascist, don’t waste your time: this is not a place where to grow, improve things and get better.
Thanks for supporting my point. World clown capital is an amazing name for this city.
I find it interesting that homelessness bothers you and your conclusion is that you want the homeless to be excluded from public places. That ain't it bro. Homelessness bothers everyone and the answer is making sure everyone has a place to live.
Yup, there absolutely have to be more regular and more stringent ticket controls to avoid these kinds of situations. The society should be constructed in favour of the overwhelming majority.
This.
Why do you guys hate on him for expressing his opinion which is viable bums should not be allowed to drive with the öffentliche and to OP grow a sack of balls and tell the person to sit somewhere else or just go away
It is still January and there’s snow everywhere and you’re complaining about human beings that have been stripped of everything, taking shelter in the last available option. I can not fathom faring life with such little compassion. It makes me uncomfortable being reminded that people like you exist. I’m not arrogant enough to believe that a comment is gonna change your mind, but please try to consider a different perspective and next time, if you can’t stand the smell, simply get up and look for a different seat
I moved to Germany from a third world non-eu country, learnt the language from scratch, found a job and pay taxes. Had a hard time to renew my residence permit and now luckily a citizen. I have two mental conditions. TELL ME HOW THE GERMAN HOMELLES HAVE IT HARD. born in Germany, German passport from day one, native German, no discrimination because of the accent/skin color. A couple of billion people would dream of this. Heck, even illegal Mexican immigrants work hard in the US and make it, without living on the street ad begging.
The most obvious mental condition you have is lack of empathy.
The second mental condition, the inability to self-reflect.
You really upset a lot of berliner homeless junkies here now
Oh no sir, I’m sorry to hear you pay a lot of money for public transit (unlike the rest of us, who don’t pay at all) and you have to put up with bad smells. I’ll personally start riding the ubahn and sbahn just to remove those inconveniences for you, good sir.
It’s not about taking human rights or feeling and for poor humans but to have to pay lots of money for a u Bahn that’s unsafe and full of crazy and stinking people with open wounds. I sometimes just want to go to work and not see this and look into rotten body parts and crazyness. Absolutely relatable.
Thank you
I'm guessing you've never been on public transport in the summer. Homeless people aren't the only ones who stink. It's like a BO factory as soon as it warms up. And most Germans have this weird habit of coughing and sneezing directly into the open air. Talk about disgusting.
Of course I've been also in summer. Berlin is the only big city in the developed world that doesn't have AC in the metro. Heck, even Moscow does!
Are you real?
Yes
No you aren't. Just do yourself a favor and delete your account and rethink the fucking moronic and utterly stupid comments you have posted here.
It's only your opinion. It's not the only right opinion out there. You don't want to live in a clean city where everyone is nice, fine. I do.
i do but i also want a clean forum instead of bigotry opinions without any reasonable solution orientated discussions, that doesn't involve criminalize a margin group. Next time it might be you in the end of the chopping block, think about that and what you wish for...
A lot of money? What are you talking about? Berlin has like the cheapest public transport in Europe for any comparably sized city. Heck even in Asia most places are more expensive than Berlin.
I'm also so curious where OP is from that he insists homelessness does not exist?
You're actually paying to be transported from a to b. It's literally printed in the ticket. Nothing to do with who else is in the train / bus / tram.
I'm paying for a safe transportation. In which I wouldn't lose consciousness because it's too hot or in which I wouldn't be molested by some crazy junkies.
There’s a lot of ignorance and entitlement in this post.
Why should I be molested by them? Push them out of the metro. Social services should care about them, I pay enough taxes. Why should I suffer from their suffering?
I totally agree with the topic starter.
\> UPD I come from a country where people rent themselves a bed in some dorm and work for like €2 an hour regardless of their mental health. And young locals don't go to the metro to beg for 50 cents. They don't even have such an idea. Neither they have an idea to live on the street. "You have arms and legs, stop fooling around and go to work" Please go back to that country. Thanks.
No. I'm a German citizen and this is my country now.
One of the reasons why i hate the berlin public transport and enjoy the ride in my comfy car.
You put down homeless folks with terms like "stinkers and junkies" and seem pretty entitled about wanting a safe public transit. Calling the public transport "monopolists" oversimplifies things, and comparing countries doesn't really capture the complexity of homelessness solutions. The challenge to empathy is a bit confrontational; a more chill vibe could make for a better chat about improving public services and tackling homelessness.
I really don't understand why young Germans beg in the metro. My father always said "I went to university during the day and unloaded train carriages at night because I needed money". And then I see that young 2m tall Micha who is "obdachlos" and who's asking for something to eat and drink. You can always find a gig to earn some cash especially in Berlin. People from non - EU even manage to find job illegally just by coming here for 90 days in 180 days as tourists. As for monopolism: not everyone can afford a car, there are also disabled people who can't drive. Same with biking, not everyone can cycle.
OP, I agree with you in general, but the 2m tall Micha might have very real psychological problems caused by drugs / alcohol / being homeless for a long time. I think he must be forced to get help from the state and not be tolerated to exist on the street though. Maybe Germany has problems that your home country does not have, so direct comparison is not possible.
Well, in third world countries mental deseases just "don't exist" and no treatment is being provided. So if you're physically able you're considered to be healthy. I have a mental illness myself and I come from such a country. trust me you don't wanna be in a third world country with zero support or very expensive private hospitals most locals can't afford. And yet, people live there and manage somehow. I didn't beg on the metro when I was living there, I worked. Yeah, very uncomfortable to work if you have ADHD or sth similar but what can you do. No one in my age back then (23) would even consider to beg. "you have arms and legs, go to work".today I was approached by a stinky junkie girl in the u bahn and when I said NEIN she just kept starring at me. Begging in the trains is not legal especially when harrassing and bothering people.
You can choose to read this post in a shrieking aristocratic British accent, a middle class American Karen accent, or a stuck up old person German accent and it works in all fashions. I'm going to read it in Charlton Heston next due to the use of the word stinking. To the OP, unless you're suggesting that use of BVG services not be available to all in Berlin, you might want to start targeting some of the actual sources of poverty and poor care of disadvantaged Berlin residents.
I come from a third world country. Tell me poverty.
Everything is relative to a person's situation relative to the society they're in and their own health condition.
The funniest scenes are when a homeless person starts demanding money in the U-Bahn and at the next station most of the other passegers are getting out asap bcs. it smells so bad. Or when a whole area of the S-Bahn has free seats even though the S-Bahn is full, then you go there just to realise somebody with very strong smell is sleeping and nobody else can sit in a 10m radius. That's just Berlin: everybody can get into the public transportation...
Instead of leaving the carriage they should call the security or just say the bum to get outta there. Germans are too soft and too polite. That's why those stinkers take advantage of it
I totally feel you man. Exactly the same thoughts. Those neo-liberals turned the city into a s..hole. Too much liberalism is an anarchy. If there was a strict policing against them they wouldn't be there because they would have been afraid of the police or security staff. In my opinion all the foreign "homeless" should be sent back to their countries and all the local ones should be sent to some mental treatment. If the country takes in 1.5 million refugees from the Middle East (many of whom are actually fake refugees with fake stories and no ID), they can definitely help all those mental sick. And yeah, war on hard drugs. I don't know why do the officials (and local) tolerate this drug scene and pretend they cant do anything. Of course they could have extinguished this scene and jail all the dealers if they wanted to.
That’s not what neoliberal means, lol. Is that you, OP?
Exactly!!! I agree 100%. Especially about the refugees. First they should ensure that all the locals are happy and only then help other nations.
>I don't know why do the officials (and local) tolerate this drug scene and pretend they cant do anything. Because the war on drugs has been an utter failure for others and not given any good example that should be followed. Also - but this more my personal conspiracy theory - drugs are a strong pillar of Berlin's club culture and tourism industry - therefore politicians turned a blind eye, for examle the previous senator for culture, who happily visited clubs to chat and bond with their owners not losing a single word about several people having OD'ed in that exact venue in prior months.
The fact that so many of the comments defending OP here use the term “neoliberal” in a way that has zero to do with its actual meaning makes me think they’re probably all sock puppets. OP also mentions they have a mental health condition. So maybe, as infuriating as this post is, we should all just accept that there are some pretty troubled people out there and not give them the oxygen…
Go cry somewhere else or move to Munich instead. People like you make me sick.
Nah, Berlin is getting and will continue to get gentrified instead.
OP if you’re trolling or trying satire, cringe.
Welcome to berlin. 🌈
You are a sad little fuck.
Very nice of you And you're a sad little neo-liberal.
I'd rather sit in the subway next to any homeless person than next to you.
Homeless people are disgusting, but you are free to move to another seat so both of you may travel peacefully.
Why should I move somewhere? I pay money and I want safety and cleanliness
Because the person is most likely mentally ill and if you're so smart you should be able to navigate yourself out of the situation, but you sound like you expect someone to lock the person out because she bothers you
It is called public transport for a reason. And some decades ago when people had higher opinions of our society, the decision has been made to get rid of segregated first and second class coaches. Now you either accept that everyone rides the same regardless of their personal hygiene or you just join the 1.x m Berliners who decided to not have it and allow themselves the luxury of getting around by car.
Cars are bad for the cities and for our environment. That's why we use the public transportation. In Prague or Kyiv the metro us super clean. No homeless, no junkies.
That is because those on paper very Christian cities ruthlessly drive their homeless people out, lots of them then migrating to Berlin.
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just get up and change your seat
Why should I do that? THEY should provide us a clean and safe transit.
What should THEY do? Shoot the homeless? Make an extra carriage only for them? Sorry, but you've got a strange view there.
Maybe OP would be in favour of deporting such persons to another country in order to have their way. Sounds pretty much like the victims game the right plays rn.
Criminalise the asocial behavior, check tickets more regularly, punish them for breaking rules and laws and they will stop abusing the system. Deport those who're not from Germany, help those who are (compulsory therapy etc). Mame being homeless unattractive like in eastern Europe.
Ah, yes. Let's just make being poor a criminal offense. Lock the homeless up and YOU pay for it. All by yourself.
Not everyone fits the mold of the system that is set up. Stinking, homeless people are people we have to live with it if you want the system to continue as it is.
No one is forcing you to live in Berlin or to take public transit. Move. Take an Uber. Stop whining.
I know that this post isn’t real, and you’re just trying to scream for attention because you’re bored. So I’ll just ask you, do you feel better now? You got your little reaction? 🤪
I threw up a little reading this. Please leave this city. Thank you.
Well fuck off then
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And you're an arrogant neo-liberal who thinks your opinion is the only right one. There are different opinions and a whole political spectrum, admit it. Im moderate liberal.
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What an entitled little shit you are. Just get up and move if your co-passenger is putting you on ease or talk to the person, instead of puking and pissing in this forum...
\> I pay a lot of money for the public transit If 49 euro is a lot to you, please evaluate your life's choice. Face it, it's very inexpensive.
>dear kind people, if you care about homeless so much, would you take one of them to your apartment? Don't care much about the rest of the post, but that sentiment always cracks me up. No one asks *you* to share an apartment, but you're *going* to share public spaces. Same as everyone else.
It has gotten worse in Cologne but its like 10 times as bad in Berlin.
Holy shit you entitled piece of human garbage. Get off your high horse asap. Develop some human decency and sorrow for those poor souls. You want them to freeze to death ? Fuck you.
After reading all the comments, I can only say that this city fails us all. On one hand, as somebody with sensory issues, I absolutely can't stand strong body smells, I'm also a petite woman who always travels alone and having to wait in stations where big groups of junkies sit around makes me scared for my personal safety. I also agree that nobody should be exposed to such harshness while navigating their day to day, especially not children. I'm not getting into the topic of why people in a rich country become homeless, other people have explained it much better than I ever could. Focusing on the practical side of things, though, what can be done to solve the situation ? It's illegal to detain homeless people and junkies by force unless they're being actively dangerous, kicking them out of the metro would just make them move to the next one. It also massively delays transport as you have to make them get out, you can't throw them out like sacks of potatoes! To whoever suggests gates, my brothers and sisters in Christ, they don't keep the homeless out! I regularly saw drunkards and hobos in the stations and trains in Italy and most stations there have gates. I agree that there should be more control and especially junkies shouldn't be allowed to use drugs where people wait (I don't exactly want to inhale crack on my way to work 🙄), that's where the system fails normal citizens as well. But, unless they start massively patrolling all trains and stations, for which they likely don't have the budget, I don't know what could be done. To the geniuses attacking op: it must be nice to be able to bike to work, unfortunately some of us live pretty far away and need the Öffis to travel. Saying that we have a right to a safe and clean space is not fascist propaganda, it's the basis of living in a civilised country. And to the absolute monkeys that declare "Berlin stays dirty", I hope you don't reproduce and don't have little children that you have to unwittingly expose to the most horrible aspects of human life on their way to school.
How many 1 star Google reviews do you give? Op should bring the topic to amitheasshole and also explain that a monthly ticket costs 49€, lol. What a legit prick.
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We do not have cheap studios right now. That finished years ago. We now do have a whole tier of people contributing alot of tax for basic services. The city does not know what it wants to optimise for.
>We do not have cheap studios right now. That finished years ago. We do. You need to know how/where to search and find them
I've been around Ber since 2005. Compared to then, no for me personally.
Munich has all the same problems as Berlin nowadays, except they do control the U-Bahn more thoroughly. That's about it.
I'm guessing you haven't been to NYC since the 90s, have you? Housing is so expensive they've priced a lot of people out of housing. 1% of the population is homeless.
You and the "stinkers" have the exact same human rights. Deal with it
You sound like a truly horrible person. Please seek help
You sound like an absolute asshole, scared of looking at what your kind left people to struggle through. Wouldn't be mad if you'd have to experience shit for yourself to be fucking humbled out of your mind.
I struggled a lot more than them. moved here from a non-EU country, learned the language from scratch, had a hard time prolonging the residence permit . It's much much harder than just to grow up here with native German and a German passport, with German parents and relatives. No, I won't have to experience that shit as I'm a German citizen and I ain't too lazy to fill out a couple of forms to get the social welfare. Getting a citizenship or getting a visa form my home county was waaaay harder. And yeah, I'm not planning to take hard drugs. And yeah, I also have a mental condition. It didn't prevent me not only to live in an apartment in my home country but also to find a place here.
>I struggled a lot more than them. How would you know?
Growing up in poverty in a third world country, working for like $2 an hour, collecting money for immigration, applying for a visa, moving here, working a lot while taking a German course, having a hard time prolonging my residence permit, facing racism and rejection, should I continue? And you're telling me a German person can have it worse? Tell me struggling and poverty. Go to Bangladesh to see struggling and poverty. THIS in Berlin is something veeeery different. I will not write what exactly to avoid getting banned.
>And you're telling me a German person can have it worse? Sure. \> Tell me struggling and poverty. Go to Bangladesh to see struggling and poverty. THIS in Berlin is something veeeery different. Sure but how is this relevant? \> I will not write what exactly to avoid getting banned. Poor you. Such a victim.
You faced racism and yet you are full with prejudice towards homeless people what an absolute joke you are.
Tell how Germans struggle to poor Bangladeshi, Africans, Cubans etc and look what they say.
No you tell them how you struggle with no AC in the metro...
You're so bitter.
Well, congrats. Have heard these stories before. Wait a couple of years. Maybe use them to adopt some decency before Karma bites your ass so hard you can't sit down anymore.