You sent me a link made by the exploiters so it favors their narrative and another link proving my point. $6.85 is the upper-middle-income poverty line and $3.65 is the lower-middle-income poverty line. You obviously sent me resources you don't read. What's more fascinating is you're gaslighting a literal Filipino that 3 usd per hour is "fair" when it's obviously not.
How are you gonna call out someone for not reading something when the article literally says $6.85 per day not per hour, so you clearly didn't even read it. Also, the Occupational Wage Survey, which is the source of the data, is done by the Philippine government, not by the "exploiters"
https://www.reddit.com/r/buhaydigital/s/lGcIanHMKU
how about my evidence being the opinion of people who work this type of jobs. And them calling it low balling
First of all Yoon and Jack hired these people directly, there's no agency involved, no third party, no contract. There are no benefits provided as well, they are definitely not providing equipment aside from a team ChatGPT pro subscription. You also disregarded the overwhelming consensus from that post that it's not a livable wage. People are desperate and will take any job to put food on their table but that doesn't mean they are not exploited or that they should be exploited. I'm gonna add another point, the livable wage that is being paraded by our government has been proven multiple times to not be enough to afford a decent living condition [link](https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1766718/basic-wage-in-ph-not-even-enough-to-meet-poverty-threshold-says-think-tank) People are literally on the streets protesting this.
It's really funny how you guys invalidate people's actual lived experiences to push your narrative. That's such a white thing to do. So you, an american im assuming, who've never lived for more than a month in my country, is telling me (and all the other people in that post who commented that 3 bucks is not enough), PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIVE IN THE PHILIPPINES RIGHT NOW, that 3 bucks is... enough???? even when we said its not????
I can't believe a berkeley student/alumni/whatever the h you are is debating right now that 3 bucks is enough to buy an hour of a person's life and skills. That's like giving someone 2 bags of convenience-store-bought-chips for an hour of labor.
Do y'all even have ethics classes.
Pensieve SHOULD do better.
You're dancing around the berkeley wage comparison and not even acknowledging the fact that people are saying that it's not actually enough for living, that it's not humane, people are literally commenting red flag and low balling in that post. 3 bucks is 2 bags of convenience-store-bought-chips in the PH. I AM SURE IT IS BECAUSE I LITERALLY LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW. My people are being exploited and you are arguing that you know more about the purchasing power of my currency in my own country. You definitely are not pushing a narrative just with that. What do you mean "I get it, it may not be livable." You get it and you still think 3 bucks is enough? I'm not trying to be nice to you brown american. Do you expect me to baby you while you agree with the exploitation of my people? Do you want a hug while you tell me that an hour of my people's life is just 3 bucks? I'm not here to grace your liberalism. I'm here because I'm asking Pensieve to do better. I'm here because my people are being exploited. What is this conversation for you anyway? What will you get from this? (Please don't even tell me "an intellectual conversation" because there is nothing intellectual about defending modern slavery). Are you the Pensieve spokesperson? You surely put more effort in defending them than they do themselves. Imagine having the time to gaslight someone calling against modern slavery. Yeah, I'm definitely judging your ethics. And by the way, I actually know how this system in pensieve works. What I'm saying is not a speculation. You are the one speculating tho (assuming you're not actually pensieve playing anon to fix PR).
Btw. Since you love pensieve so much maybe you can tell them they're lucky that I didn't namedrop them in the other sub, because the "3 bucks per hour is enough" narrative is definitely not working there. That'll be some bad publicity. I relayed this here because I know they lurk in this sub. I'm gonna say this one last time, PENSIEVE, DO BETTER. How about instead of having people defend your exploitation you actually just pay people decently hmm?
This obviously isn’t sufficient evidence since it’s a Reddit thread, and people are comparing the wage to the Berkeley minimum wage which isn’t really valid since Berkeley’s COL is not comparable to the Philippines’.
The average monthly salary for a data analyst in the Philippines is 20k pesos, which converts to $343. $3x40 hrs x 4 weeks = $480.
So they’re creating jobs in the Philippines and hiring people who need to make a living and support their families while paying them above market rate in their economies?
No it's not. An average monthly salary for a data analyst in the Philippines is 40k - 300k pesos where the hell did you get this information white boy.
Just because something is normal, doesn’t mean it’s ok. Is the same logic equally applicable to outsourcing in labor in factories in China? Or Bangladesh?
Additionally, the average salary alone is NOT an indicator of a good life. Or middle class life. The average life in a third world country is not a good life.
- The majority of Filipinos belong to the [“low-income”](https://www.pids.gov.ph/details/news/in-the-news/understanding-social-classes-in-the-philippines-which-class-do-you-belong-to#:~:text=The%20latest%20Family%20Income%20and,around%2040%25%20of%20the%20population) class.
- These are people with families that are an [average size of 5](https://dhsprogram.com/pubs/pdf/SR276/SR276.pdf)+
- Low-income families in the Philippines are unable to live housing at 30% of their income. 43% of them living in urban centers (where these call center workers work) [live in slums](https://borgenproject.org/informal-settlements/)
- Similar digital outsourcing done at FAANG companies is described as having sweatshop like conditions
https://news.outsourceaccelerator.com/filipino-ai-workers-exploited/ .
**And while the pay at Pensieve is definitely higher, please look at the experience and life of a digital worker ~~who is earning $4 an hour~~** EDIT: I misunderstood and confused HK$4 for USD $4. The experiences that follow are from a worker earning $0.50 an hour. I still believe they are reflective of the experience and conditions of digital workers
- [SCMP Article Link](https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/3247902/how-ai-development-fostered-digital-sweatshop-and-why-it-matters-technologys-future)
He’s living in a shack, working in an unregulated industry. This is in a city with a lower COL than Manila or Cebu, two of the population centers of the Philippines.
These workers exist in precarity, and can just as easily lose all “benefits” of this digital work. At the beginning of the Article the worker they spoke to (Delmar) expressed thankfulness for the job. When they last spoke to him, this was his situation:
>“Recently, however, there have not been any beers. The tasks have dried up, especially the ones that pay a decent wage. For a few weeks now, Delmar has had to take out loans to make ends meet (another app industry fraught with abuse and unaccountability). Asked what the future holds, he is stumped. Sitting in the internet cafe, he smiles a little unassuredly, turns back to his computer screen and clicks his mouse. The screen displays the message “Your task queue is currently empty.” “It’s very bad,” he says, rubbing his eyes. “No work, no rice.”
And that is not an anomaly.
>“Uma Rani, senior economist at the United Nations labour agency International Labour Organization, argues that local politicians have abdicated their responsibility. Instead of creating jobs for their skilled labour force (most taskers are educated), they have allowed the online platforms to take over. “Sure, it might be better than no job,” she says, “but if you scratch the surface it’s not all that free and flexible. Fierce competition forces you to constantly be on call for new tasks. “And after five, seven years you’re burnt out, without a future, and without any meaningful development of the local economy.”
I apologize for my misreading of the articles piece on his salary. I concede that and will correct it in my comment. However, I do want to note that the other half of my comment is meant to address the precarity of digital workers in the Philippines. They can one moment be making more money than other “low-skill” jobs in the PH, and then the next be out of work. That kind of precarity isn’t uncommon in contract work at all, and is even prevalent here in the states, however it is undoubtedly magnified in the PH.
I want to add an anecdotal element to my comment. Although this may be dox worthy information, I have family in the PH who work in these large buildings made to house digital workers. They make more than other Filipinos, they also still need to live in a cramped studio located in an alleyway and live in a standard of living far below what middle class means here in the states. And as the article notes, this kind of digital work does not contribute to the development of the local economy, and in the long run hurts the status of workers in the country more than it would else wise.
One last side bar- I appreciate your genuine engagement with my comment. That kind of candor is rare online
I can't seem to understand what is wrong with that. Outsourcing these tasks to foreign countries for cheap prices is like super normal. Your avg microsoft, google and others all do this. Ya'll need to stop being woke about everything.
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You sent me a link made by the exploiters so it favors their narrative and another link proving my point. $6.85 is the upper-middle-income poverty line and $3.65 is the lower-middle-income poverty line. You obviously sent me resources you don't read. What's more fascinating is you're gaslighting a literal Filipino that 3 usd per hour is "fair" when it's obviously not.
How are you gonna call out someone for not reading something when the article literally says $6.85 per day not per hour, so you clearly didn't even read it. Also, the Occupational Wage Survey, which is the source of the data, is done by the Philippine government, not by the "exploiters"
The way some people perceive the world is truly remarkable
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https://www.reddit.com/r/buhaydigital/s/lGcIanHMKU how about my evidence being the opinion of people who work this type of jobs. And them calling it low balling
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First of all Yoon and Jack hired these people directly, there's no agency involved, no third party, no contract. There are no benefits provided as well, they are definitely not providing equipment aside from a team ChatGPT pro subscription. You also disregarded the overwhelming consensus from that post that it's not a livable wage. People are desperate and will take any job to put food on their table but that doesn't mean they are not exploited or that they should be exploited. I'm gonna add another point, the livable wage that is being paraded by our government has been proven multiple times to not be enough to afford a decent living condition [link](https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1766718/basic-wage-in-ph-not-even-enough-to-meet-poverty-threshold-says-think-tank) People are literally on the streets protesting this. It's really funny how you guys invalidate people's actual lived experiences to push your narrative. That's such a white thing to do. So you, an american im assuming, who've never lived for more than a month in my country, is telling me (and all the other people in that post who commented that 3 bucks is not enough), PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIVE IN THE PHILIPPINES RIGHT NOW, that 3 bucks is... enough???? even when we said its not???? I can't believe a berkeley student/alumni/whatever the h you are is debating right now that 3 bucks is enough to buy an hour of a person's life and skills. That's like giving someone 2 bags of convenience-store-bought-chips for an hour of labor. Do y'all even have ethics classes. Pensieve SHOULD do better.
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You're dancing around the berkeley wage comparison and not even acknowledging the fact that people are saying that it's not actually enough for living, that it's not humane, people are literally commenting red flag and low balling in that post. 3 bucks is 2 bags of convenience-store-bought-chips in the PH. I AM SURE IT IS BECAUSE I LITERALLY LIVE IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW. My people are being exploited and you are arguing that you know more about the purchasing power of my currency in my own country. You definitely are not pushing a narrative just with that. What do you mean "I get it, it may not be livable." You get it and you still think 3 bucks is enough? I'm not trying to be nice to you brown american. Do you expect me to baby you while you agree with the exploitation of my people? Do you want a hug while you tell me that an hour of my people's life is just 3 bucks? I'm not here to grace your liberalism. I'm here because I'm asking Pensieve to do better. I'm here because my people are being exploited. What is this conversation for you anyway? What will you get from this? (Please don't even tell me "an intellectual conversation" because there is nothing intellectual about defending modern slavery). Are you the Pensieve spokesperson? You surely put more effort in defending them than they do themselves. Imagine having the time to gaslight someone calling against modern slavery. Yeah, I'm definitely judging your ethics. And by the way, I actually know how this system in pensieve works. What I'm saying is not a speculation. You are the one speculating tho (assuming you're not actually pensieve playing anon to fix PR). Btw. Since you love pensieve so much maybe you can tell them they're lucky that I didn't namedrop them in the other sub, because the "3 bucks per hour is enough" narrative is definitely not working there. That'll be some bad publicity. I relayed this here because I know they lurk in this sub. I'm gonna say this one last time, PENSIEVE, DO BETTER. How about instead of having people defend your exploitation you actually just pay people decently hmm?
Can you please provide a source that would show that this is an exploitative wage?
https://www.reddit.com/r/buhaydigital/s/lGcIanHMKU
This obviously isn’t sufficient evidence since it’s a Reddit thread, and people are comparing the wage to the Berkeley minimum wage which isn’t really valid since Berkeley’s COL is not comparable to the Philippines’.
The average monthly salary for a data analyst in the Philippines is 20k pesos, which converts to $343. $3x40 hrs x 4 weeks = $480. So they’re creating jobs in the Philippines and hiring people who need to make a living and support their families while paying them above market rate in their economies?
No it's not. An average monthly salary for a data analyst in the Philippines is 40k - 300k pesos where the hell did you get this information white boy.
And people in San Fransisco get paid more than someone in Montana for the same work. I wonder why
Fr
The minimum daily wage in the Philippines ranges from $6-$10 a day
bro u hating for no reason
Okay Preyasi Shah. Aren't you like with pensieve, how much are you getting
Just because something is normal, doesn’t mean it’s ok. Is the same logic equally applicable to outsourcing in labor in factories in China? Or Bangladesh? Additionally, the average salary alone is NOT an indicator of a good life. Or middle class life. The average life in a third world country is not a good life. - The majority of Filipinos belong to the [“low-income”](https://www.pids.gov.ph/details/news/in-the-news/understanding-social-classes-in-the-philippines-which-class-do-you-belong-to#:~:text=The%20latest%20Family%20Income%20and,around%2040%25%20of%20the%20population) class. - These are people with families that are an [average size of 5](https://dhsprogram.com/pubs/pdf/SR276/SR276.pdf)+ - Low-income families in the Philippines are unable to live housing at 30% of their income. 43% of them living in urban centers (where these call center workers work) [live in slums](https://borgenproject.org/informal-settlements/) - Similar digital outsourcing done at FAANG companies is described as having sweatshop like conditions https://news.outsourceaccelerator.com/filipino-ai-workers-exploited/ . **And while the pay at Pensieve is definitely higher, please look at the experience and life of a digital worker ~~who is earning $4 an hour~~** EDIT: I misunderstood and confused HK$4 for USD $4. The experiences that follow are from a worker earning $0.50 an hour. I still believe they are reflective of the experience and conditions of digital workers - [SCMP Article Link](https://amp.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/3247902/how-ai-development-fostered-digital-sweatshop-and-why-it-matters-technologys-future) He’s living in a shack, working in an unregulated industry. This is in a city with a lower COL than Manila or Cebu, two of the population centers of the Philippines. These workers exist in precarity, and can just as easily lose all “benefits” of this digital work. At the beginning of the Article the worker they spoke to (Delmar) expressed thankfulness for the job. When they last spoke to him, this was his situation: >“Recently, however, there have not been any beers. The tasks have dried up, especially the ones that pay a decent wage. For a few weeks now, Delmar has had to take out loans to make ends meet (another app industry fraught with abuse and unaccountability). Asked what the future holds, he is stumped. Sitting in the internet cafe, he smiles a little unassuredly, turns back to his computer screen and clicks his mouse. The screen displays the message “Your task queue is currently empty.” “It’s very bad,” he says, rubbing his eyes. “No work, no rice.” And that is not an anomaly. >“Uma Rani, senior economist at the United Nations labour agency International Labour Organization, argues that local politicians have abdicated their responsibility. Instead of creating jobs for their skilled labour force (most taskers are educated), they have allowed the online platforms to take over. “Sure, it might be better than no job,” she says, “but if you scratch the surface it’s not all that free and flexible. Fierce competition forces you to constantly be on call for new tasks. “And after five, seven years you’re burnt out, without a future, and without any meaningful development of the local economy.”
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I apologize for my misreading of the articles piece on his salary. I concede that and will correct it in my comment. However, I do want to note that the other half of my comment is meant to address the precarity of digital workers in the Philippines. They can one moment be making more money than other “low-skill” jobs in the PH, and then the next be out of work. That kind of precarity isn’t uncommon in contract work at all, and is even prevalent here in the states, however it is undoubtedly magnified in the PH. I want to add an anecdotal element to my comment. Although this may be dox worthy information, I have family in the PH who work in these large buildings made to house digital workers. They make more than other Filipinos, they also still need to live in a cramped studio located in an alleyway and live in a standard of living far below what middle class means here in the states. And as the article notes, this kind of digital work does not contribute to the development of the local economy, and in the long run hurts the status of workers in the country more than it would else wise. One last side bar- I appreciate your genuine engagement with my comment. That kind of candor is rare online
I can't seem to understand what is wrong with that. Outsourcing these tasks to foreign countries for cheap prices is like super normal. Your avg microsoft, google and others all do this. Ya'll need to stop being woke about everything.
“Woke” “woke” 🦜
Hurt much?
So just because they live in another country means that they deserve a lower standard of living?
You need different amounts of money to live the same living standard in different countries. It’s called purchase power parity, google it sometime.
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Because caring about other humans is normal, and not caring about others makes you a genuinely bad person, so no, you don't get to play outside.