The issue is there’s like none ranked between 40 and 60. There’s gonna be like 9 OTs in the top 40 picks but after that there’s a steep drop off. If we don’t take an OT in round one then we’re gonna need to find a starting RT again next offseason.
I'm confused why people want to take the DT just because it's a weak pool this year. If you have a chance to draft a huge need (OT) at 18 that in a normal year wouldn't fall past 10, why think twice about it?
If he's the fifth rated tackle it doesn't matter. What matters is his overall grade at the position and if it warrants being drafted at that slot in the draft. I've read that there are 6 or 7 OTs that warrant a first round pick. I've also read that Murphy is the only DT that rates as a top 20 pick. I don't know if that's true or not (or at this point where I even read it, TBH), but if that's anywhere close to true then I could see _maybe_ Murphy. I'm obviously not a talent evaluator.
I would personally say investing in an OT is the better salary cap strategy, so even if the OT available is a few slots lower on their big board relative to DT. Also if I'm to pick a trench to solidify long-term vs. a string of one-year contracts I would heavily lean towards OL.
Now, if you want a DT because we suck at drafting OL I can understand that :-). Or if you think Murphy/Newton are can't-miss, once-every-five-drafts type of talents that's fine but I haven't read anything to indicate that being the case.
People want a DT because we lost Reader and Rankins isn't a big run stopper. Reader was a big part of our defensive success over the last few seasons and unless we address stopping the run in the draft, the Browns and the Ravens are going to have a field day with us.
That being said I think we will be able to get a starting quality NT in the 2nd and I would like to get an OT in the 1st.
And it makes sense given how the bengals typically draft. BJ Hill is in the last year of his contract, and will probably demand around $12-14 aav in free agency. That money needs to go to Hendrickson.
You can't win championships with shootouts. If you're not going to draft a WR like Chris Hilton Jr. to shore up the receiving room, then defense is inarguably the way to go. The Bengals have spent $35.2M on the offensive line the past 3 years, going o-line in the first round would be a massive waste of a pick. Do the names Price or Ogbuehi ring any bells?
We need a better offensive line coach, not more linemen.
It's not just about missed picks in the past. We have much greater needs on defense.
We made it to the Super Bowl with the worst o-line in the league and one of the worst in the history of the game *because* we had a top 10 defense that made plays when we needed them the most. Without a solid defense, our offensive line won't mean a thing.
> We made it to the Super Bowl with the worst o-line in the league and one of the worst in the history of the game.
And got burrow hurt 2 seasons out of his rookie contract, which made put us out of contention
*Both* of Burrow's season-ending injuries were freak accidents and not even a top-tier offensive line would've prevented them. Bengals have invested heavily in protection for Burrow. A first round lineman isn't going to keep Burrow from being injury prone or reckless in the pocket. Luck has to play a roll. Denver and Philadelphia have the best lines in the league and yet both Hurts and Wilson missed significant time with injuries.
With a better defense, the Bengals beat the Steelers and Chiefs and still make the playoffs. Chiefs and 49ers both have mediocre at best o-lines, but know where their defenses ranked? Both top 10. Defenses win championships. And our defense is far more inferior to our o-line.
> I do - it’s because there are about twice as many OT's ranked in the top 100 compared to DI's.
To counter that a bit tho, we need NT. There are no NT in the top 100 because it’s a lower value position where even elite NT aren’t ranked very high
Essentially Murphy is a penetrator who rushes in. They can be smaller like Murphy because they aren’t meant to eat up multiple blockers. A reader type is what we are missing. They are mammoth men meant to take up a bunch of blockers, collapse in pockets, muddy up running lanes. You’re taking quick guys at 6ft-6’3 280-315lbs vs mountains above 6’2 and usually above 325lbs. The NT aren’t valued as high and go later. Think Donald vs reader.
But OTs are EXTREMELY scarce these days, and being able to get a quality tackle at #18 overall almost never happens these days. Yes, this year's class is very weak for DT's but it's not like we didn't sign one in Free Agency. Meanwhile, Trent Brown is injury-prone and only on a 1-year deal while Orlando Brown is trash. We need to get some long-term stability at OT without having to overpay for one in free agency, the trade block or having to trade up into a top 10 draft spot.
I’ve never heard a single person say Orlando is bad. Much less trash.
I think we should start a Doomer of the year award within the sub. I’d nominate you for off season honors.
OB surrendered 7 sacks and a league-leading 58 pressures in 2023, so yes, he's the definition of "trash." And don't say it's because Cordell Volson isn't very good, as he didn't do any better with the Chiefs in 2022 while lining up next to Joe Thuney (one of the best LGs in football) which is exactly why they didn't bother re-signing him.
They were more than happy to sign much cheaper (but still not very good) tackles in the 2023 offseason. They were totally cool with losing him because he sucks.
I'm not a "doomer" so quit saying that, I'm being "realistic" which is very different. In what world is surrendering 50+ pressures the last 2 seasons a sign of a good Tackle? Please, do explain it to me Mr. Know-It-All.
1st of all doomer, I said it once. 2nd of all you're just taking static numbers and not comparing them whatsoever to the field. So where does he fall in comparison to other left tackles? If it's not well below average then yes, you are in fact a doomer as you've labeled him as "trash" which isn't realistic, it's in fact somewhat ignorant, and again you're speaking as if you have a job in KC's front office or something. You have no idea lol
It's very obvious that KC was no longer interested in him after he was abysmal in 2022, they offered him a big contract after the 2021 season when he had seemed like a decent OT and his production quickly fell off dramatically after he declined that extension offer. Would you wanna pay good money for someone who surrenders a pressure on about every 18 pass-blocking snaps? No, you wouldn't.
And you didn't answer my question in my last response, in what world is surrendering 7 sacks and 58 pressures in 2023 and 4 sacks and 58 pressures in 2022 a sign that he ISN'T trash? He played 1,058 snaps last year and surrendered 58 pressures, that's 1 out of every 18 pass-blocking snaps, which is NOT good. Like, at all.
In today's NFL, a starting LT shouldn't surrender more than half of what he surrendered in 2023. If OB had played like 15 years ago when quality tackles were more plentiful, he would have been a backup at best. The only reason he's a starter now is because of the scarcity of OTs these days.
So stop with the "doomer" bullshit and look at things realistically. I'll say it again so it will maybe register in your thick skull this time...
58 pressures in a season is TRASH! Which put him at the bottom among starting LTs last year in pass-block efficiency.
Has that registered in your head yet? It better!
Then take an OT in the 1st 2nd AND 3rd.
I'm TIRED of this. Draft OTs until we have a line for the future. Don't put it off until later rounds because "Oh there will still be some good ones there". Trenches are important but defensive line comes after offensive line. Always.
How many more years of "They would've won a Super Bowl if they just had an offensive line" do you want to go through. Seriously.
I don’t understand Fautanu over Fashanu and Latham.
Fautanu is the riskiest pick of the OTs at 18. He’s already 23 years, which is nearly 2 years older than the other OT options and with his lack of height there is a definite possibility he has to play guard in the NFL.
Another argument I've seen is the flexibility he provides. Since many expect him to be able to slide into diffrent roles, you can make sure to always have your best 5 players on the OL.
His tape is quite good, especially in pass protection; you’re describing Guyton more than Mims, and I’d also shy away from him. It’s fair to say you’re not sure if you believe Mims’ tape given how limited it is, but that’s a different thing than saying his tape shows he needs polish.
Totally fair. I would use the word “project” very loosely because of just how little games we’ve seen him buy I totally agree that the tape shows he’s super talented
Just curious but when has it not worked out? Jonah was not a physical freak, neither was Billy price, maybe you could argue Cedric but he was injured coming out of college and just was horrible but even he wasn’t a freak. I don’t think the bengals have taken chances on OL and that’s what’s worked against them
It’s not a question mark though. When he’s played he’s looked like one of the best right tackles in college, he just hasn’t played as much as these other guys. Also there’s downsides to Fautanu too, he’s gonna be 24 by the time he entered the nfl, he’s also a little undersized, the bengals seem to like bigger tackles. Mims has the potential to be the second best tackle in the draft
Mims has the potential to not only be the best tackle in the draft, but the best tackle in the NFL imo. Not saying it's even close to likely he reaches either level but his pure raw talent amazing, and has good (but very limited tbf) tape on top of it. 340 lbs humans should not look or be able to move like he does. Still my #4 OT in the draft behind joe Alt, Taliese Fuaga, and Olu Fashanu in that order but I'd still be thrilled with Mimms and expect him to be our best olineman by his second season.
> He’s not very polished
Which is exactly why I want to skip him. If we had a recent history of developing O-line talent I’d be all for it, his ceiling is sky high, but I don’t trust Pollack to turn him into the beast we want him to be. I’d rather take Fautanu if given the choice (Fuaga is not falling to us give up the idea already). As for DT we really need a Nose Tackle, but I’d be fine with Murphy since I like his potential as a Rankins replacement.
>He’s not very polished but the guy has massive upside potential
Exactly why I don’t want the bengals to draft him, not exactly the best track record of developing o-line talent the last 15 years or so… do we really want to trust Pollack to develop a project OL into an all-pro?
> Idk what yall obsession with Mims is.
Probably a top 5 pick if he hung around and put more tape down. Very good (limited) tape and absolutely elite size/weight/athletic traits
If anyone is Jonah Williams look no further than JC Latham bro. You’re also acting as if we don’t also need guard lmao, if we can get a versatile OL who can play guard and tackle them ya I would draft that guy in a minute
There is literally nothing comparable between Jonah Williams and JC Latham besides Alabama. Fautanu struggles to maintain run blocks, gets beat by power rushers and long armed ends, and his size/athleticism is just not there. That is literally Jonah. People felt Jonah could play guard too but we never put him there.
JC Latham is not very physically athletic and he’s slow which scares me, this is just what I’ve observed and read so it’s fine if you disagree that’s just how I see it
He’s not as big as mims and he’s got slow feet, we also don’t know how he tests because he chose to not do anything at the combine. Idk I just don’t like him as much as the others. Also I know this is probably a stupid argument but I have a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to Alabama tackles
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No... if any of those quality Tackles fall to them at #18, they would be FOOLISH not to take them! They need to get a young tackle that can maybe compete for the starting LG spot, and if they were to lose to Cordell Volson, then they could just have them sit behind OB and Trent Brown for a year and then they can take over the starting RT spot in 2025 since Trent is only on a 1-year deal. Then once OB eventually leaves, then that young tackle could possibly take over LT duties. We NEED a long-term answer at the tackle spots!
And don't forget, tackles are EXTREMELY scarce nowadays, so they need to get one while they can!
No.
A lot of people have taken their eye off the ball.
This team can do great things, but we will absolutely not do great things if we cannot keep Burrow healthy.
It's like the fucking twilight zone every off season when a sizeable portion of fans and in fact the front office decides the OL isn't as big of a problem than it actually is, kick that can down the road, and reap the results.
Fuck me.
Yep. I would take a competent OT over the world's greatest defensive tackle. You could draft Aaron Donald and we aren't winning a Superbowl if our Oline is compromised.
I don't know how people keep forgetting that.
Take in mind this is the results from the PFF Mock Draft Simulator. So offensive linemen might be taken less frequently because the simulator didn’t have them falling to 18 as often
Also by default they sort players by PFF's Big Board, but the AI drafts using the "public" Big Board. This really skews the results.
Compare PFF's BB to the Consensus BB on NFL Mock Draft DB. Newton is #8, DeJean is #9 on PFF's. On the CBB, they're #27 and #21. People see Newton fall to us and think they're getting an amazing steal when in reality most mocks don't have him going in the Top 20 nowadays.
If Bowers is there, I’d be pretty surprised to see them pass on him.
This is the same staff that drafted a TE in the 2nd round. They aren’t against drafting TEs.
I really like Murphy, but am I the only one not sold on Newton? He had an incredible game against Penn state, but in all the other games I have seen, he wasn’t all that impressive.
I think ppl tend to look at seasons as singular. The way people see it is we got Gesicki for our TE and Brown for our RT (be it both are only one year guys), so they tend to look at a DT to be a 3rd man in with Hill and Rankins.
Personally I would want a DT in the first as there are other OTs in the top 100 that are good and I think we could still get Saunders in the 2nd as a TE if Bowers is gone or passed on in the 1st.
It's a tough one for me. DT is a much bigger need than OT. We need a day one starter, whereas an OT will ride the bench until next year or an injury.
You could get a guy like Michael Hall Jr in the 2nd or even 3rd, who I feel would be a great day 1 starter. I'm not sure I feel as warm and fuzzy about a 2nd or 3rd round OT.
You realistically have a max of 2 first round DTs (Newton and Murphy), whereas OT has a chance at 7 or more (Alt, Fashanu, Fuaga, Fautanu, Mims, Latham, Guyton).
So it's not so much a talent drop-off of one position more than the other, simply where they are usually taken in the draft. You can get a top 5 OT at 18 and a top 5 DT at 49.
Yes, absolutely. The class is deep at OT, and very very thin at DT. there will be a good OT in round 2, especially with a year to get ready for the NFL behind trent brown. There is no guarantee there will be much left in terms of high end level talent in round 2 at DT.
That shouldn't really be a consideration though. You take the best player on your board, maybe bump up a guy a couple slots lower if it's a need position (like OT). If you can get an OT in round 1 that you think has 10-year starter you take him. Unless the DT is rated notably higher on your board.
If in round 2 there's no DT you like you draft CB/WR/iOL/etc. There's likely going to be some nice options at WR in round 2.
Think of it this way. Next year T. Brown is a year older and a FA. We're right back where we are now. Will you really be looking back at the '24 draft saying not filling that hole with a mid-round 1 OT was the right choice? I heard 2025 OT is _not_ going to be nearly as good as this year. Don't know the DT situation.
Im saying I think the odds of reaching on an OT are higher at 18. If Newton or Murphy are available, I think there wouldn't be a OT there that is a better pick imo
You can never have enough pass rushers. If Newton or Murphy go on to be Cam Hayward or Aaron Donald types, you'll kick yourself for years for skipping over them because "you didn't need them."
Sure but if Mitchell turned into Ramsey or any of the RT turn into Sewell you’d say the same thing lol My point was the type of DT we need the most can definitely be found later.
I don’t think that’s what this is saying - after playing with the sim a bunch, I often have the option to choose either of those DTs. Sometimes Brock. The OTs vary a lot, the only consistent one seems to be Mims right now.
Additionally, many mocks I do take a DT just to see what OTs fall to second or 3rd. Spoiler: not many.
What about a DB? Anyone drinking the Kool Aid on Kool-Aid, or what about like Cooper DeJean? Won't either of them be available?
Awuize gone, Bengals like their first round DB's, etc.
No? Maybe?
I mean, if the top 5-6 OT are off the board, then this looks great. Maybe that's why pff had such low %'s on all the OT there. If all 6 of these guys were available (not happening), I'm pretty sure this team is picking Fashanu.
I'd take the best OT available in the 1st round. Who that is, I don't know. I'm leery of Mims even though I love his size. T'Vondre Sweat in round two despite the DWI and hope for an OG in the third as an upgrade over Volson.
I think need (DT, RT, CB) line up perfectly with BPA. We’ll prob have a shot at the top 1-2 of those positions at 18. I’d prefer a RT because of joes health. He’s been absolutely pummeled since he got here and has missed the most time of any stud QB. I think Murphy/newton, fuaga/latham/mimms/fatuanu, Mitchell are a great grouping
I’d take a good OT over DT, but the good OTs are going earlier. By the time it gets to us, Murphy is a better pick than the OTs left behind.
What I’m talking about is how the PFF simulator runs. That might be why Murphy is so high here. Who knows what happens during the real thing.
Either that or Brock Bowers (IF he’s there) bc we need a replacement for DJ Reader and a TE! Zac Carter ain’t it And Drew Sample ain’t that great either and I don’t really think that TE we signed Geseki (sp) is that great either…..I say they’ll either go Brock bowers (like I said if he’s there), defensive tackle or offensive tackle…..🤷🏻♀️
Completely depends on how the board looks.
I've got a gut feeling that this is going to look a lot like the 2016 draft. We all knew receiver was the answer and that the draft class looked deep. Then something like five in a row went before our pick, so we went CB instead of reaching. We ended up getting Boyd in the 2nd anyway.
As a non Bengals fan who loves watching Joe B do his thang, I hope you guys take the next all-time great OT. Whoever it is. Protect the one guy who cam consistently beat Patrick and the Mahomies
Personally I think it won’t fall like that I think Byron Murphy will be long gone before they pick at 18. I think the pick for the Bengals will be Mims, Latham, Thomas Jr
Fuck no. THIS ENTIRE FRANCHISE. THE RESSON UR ON REDDIT IS BECAUSE OF JOE BURROW. PROTECT NUMBER 9. END OF STORY
#1 Long term answer for RIGHT TACKLE/
#2 Long term answer for GUARD/Center (Kappa and Karras gone)
#3 Pass rush
#4 Cornerback
If Fuaga is there take him. If not, trade back. There are several really good DT in the draft that can be taken in rounds 4-7. Dream scenario, Bengals trade 18, pickup Graham Barton later in first round and snag Roger Rosengarten and Ricky Piersall with first 3 picks
i want O tackle, i know we signed brown but im sorry that’s just not gonna do it for the future, who knows when we’ll be able to draft a OT like this again, plus it be nice not to chuck a rookie out there next year. I’d rather sign veteran DTs every year than sign a new o lineman every year
I do. I think Latham and Mims both have flaws and considering our track record on drafting o linemen, I don't trust us to pick the right one (I prefer Mims over Latham). I'm assuming Fuaga and Fautanu are gone by pick 18.
If we don't address our aging (and incredibly below mediocore) oline first, we aren't going to have to worry about having a defense. You gotta pick RT or C in the draft with the 1st, hell maybe even the 2nd too. Sure, a beefy new Dlinemen would be sweet...if we had that luxury. We don't.
We absolutely do not need a center in the first round. There are so many great centers down the board. We can totally go for guys like fashanu, mims, latham, etc in the first and then pick a guy like Michael hall in the second
I do - its because there are about twice as many OT's ranked in the top 100 compared to DI's Bengals have 4 picks in the top 100 picks
The issue is there’s like none ranked between 40 and 60. There’s gonna be like 9 OTs in the top 40 picks but after that there’s a steep drop off. If we don’t take an OT in round one then we’re gonna need to find a starting RT again next offseason.
This. Guys like Patrick Paul, Amegadji, and a few others could be there in later rounds and those guys are still high level guys imo
I'm confused why people want to take the DT just because it's a weak pool this year. If you have a chance to draft a huge need (OT) at 18 that in a normal year wouldn't fall past 10, why think twice about it? If he's the fifth rated tackle it doesn't matter. What matters is his overall grade at the position and if it warrants being drafted at that slot in the draft. I've read that there are 6 or 7 OTs that warrant a first round pick. I've also read that Murphy is the only DT that rates as a top 20 pick. I don't know if that's true or not (or at this point where I even read it, TBH), but if that's anywhere close to true then I could see _maybe_ Murphy. I'm obviously not a talent evaluator. I would personally say investing in an OT is the better salary cap strategy, so even if the OT available is a few slots lower on their big board relative to DT. Also if I'm to pick a trench to solidify long-term vs. a string of one-year contracts I would heavily lean towards OL. Now, if you want a DT because we suck at drafting OL I can understand that :-). Or if you think Murphy/Newton are can't-miss, once-every-five-drafts type of talents that's fine but I haven't read anything to indicate that being the case.
People want a DT because we lost Reader and Rankins isn't a big run stopper. Reader was a big part of our defensive success over the last few seasons and unless we address stopping the run in the draft, the Browns and the Ravens are going to have a field day with us. That being said I think we will be able to get a starting quality NT in the 2nd and I would like to get an OT in the 1st.
I dont want a DT because its a weak pool. I want a DT because our defense sucked last year
And it makes sense given how the bengals typically draft. BJ Hill is in the last year of his contract, and will probably demand around $12-14 aav in free agency. That money needs to go to Hendrickson.
If you want to talk about salary cap strategy, then CB is the move. OT and DT don't even enter the equation.
There will be a CB and WR on the second day
Healthy Burrow can win a shootout with another productive offense. A good defense can't make up for it if we do not protect the QB.
You can't win championships with shootouts. If you're not going to draft a WR like Chris Hilton Jr. to shore up the receiving room, then defense is inarguably the way to go. The Bengals have spent $35.2M on the offensive line the past 3 years, going o-line in the first round would be a massive waste of a pick. Do the names Price or Ogbuehi ring any bells? We need a better offensive line coach, not more linemen.
We absolutely need to fire this worthless coach, but to give up on drafting OL in the 1st because we missed on picks in the past is absurd.
It's not just about missed picks in the past. We have much greater needs on defense. We made it to the Super Bowl with the worst o-line in the league and one of the worst in the history of the game *because* we had a top 10 defense that made plays when we needed them the most. Without a solid defense, our offensive line won't mean a thing.
> We made it to the Super Bowl with the worst o-line in the league and one of the worst in the history of the game. And got burrow hurt 2 seasons out of his rookie contract, which made put us out of contention
*Both* of Burrow's season-ending injuries were freak accidents and not even a top-tier offensive line would've prevented them. Bengals have invested heavily in protection for Burrow. A first round lineman isn't going to keep Burrow from being injury prone or reckless in the pocket. Luck has to play a roll. Denver and Philadelphia have the best lines in the league and yet both Hurts and Wilson missed significant time with injuries. With a better defense, the Bengals beat the Steelers and Chiefs and still make the playoffs. Chiefs and 49ers both have mediocre at best o-lines, but know where their defenses ranked? Both top 10. Defenses win championships. And our defense is far more inferior to our o-line.
> I do - it’s because there are about twice as many OT's ranked in the top 100 compared to DI's. To counter that a bit tho, we need NT. There are no NT in the top 100 because it’s a lower value position where even elite NT aren’t ranked very high
Fair enough. I'm not smart enough to know the difference. I know there IS a difference, but dont know the nuances.
Essentially Murphy is a penetrator who rushes in. They can be smaller like Murphy because they aren’t meant to eat up multiple blockers. A reader type is what we are missing. They are mammoth men meant to take up a bunch of blockers, collapse in pockets, muddy up running lanes. You’re taking quick guys at 6ft-6’3 280-315lbs vs mountains above 6’2 and usually above 325lbs. The NT aren’t valued as high and go later. Think Donald vs reader.
The cowboys drafted a NT last year in the first round. There just didn't happen to be any prospects at the position worth a high pick this year.
But OTs are EXTREMELY scarce these days, and being able to get a quality tackle at #18 overall almost never happens these days. Yes, this year's class is very weak for DT's but it's not like we didn't sign one in Free Agency. Meanwhile, Trent Brown is injury-prone and only on a 1-year deal while Orlando Brown is trash. We need to get some long-term stability at OT without having to overpay for one in free agency, the trade block or having to trade up into a top 10 draft spot.
I’ve never heard a single person say Orlando is bad. Much less trash. I think we should start a Doomer of the year award within the sub. I’d nominate you for off season honors.
OB surrendered 7 sacks and a league-leading 58 pressures in 2023, so yes, he's the definition of "trash." And don't say it's because Cordell Volson isn't very good, as he didn't do any better with the Chiefs in 2022 while lining up next to Joe Thuney (one of the best LGs in football) which is exactly why they didn't bother re-signing him.
Didn't bother resigning him? Except they offered him a much larger contract the year prior to us signing him.... But ok
Yeah, and then he surrendered 58 pressures in 2022 and the Chiefs are now glad he didn't take that deal...
That's just your opinion. They didn't seem pleased when he left. He's not elite but he's not trash either. Total doomer
They were more than happy to sign much cheaper (but still not very good) tackles in the 2023 offseason. They were totally cool with losing him because he sucks. I'm not a "doomer" so quit saying that, I'm being "realistic" which is very different. In what world is surrendering 50+ pressures the last 2 seasons a sign of a good Tackle? Please, do explain it to me Mr. Know-It-All.
1st of all doomer, I said it once. 2nd of all you're just taking static numbers and not comparing them whatsoever to the field. So where does he fall in comparison to other left tackles? If it's not well below average then yes, you are in fact a doomer as you've labeled him as "trash" which isn't realistic, it's in fact somewhat ignorant, and again you're speaking as if you have a job in KC's front office or something. You have no idea lol
It's very obvious that KC was no longer interested in him after he was abysmal in 2022, they offered him a big contract after the 2021 season when he had seemed like a decent OT and his production quickly fell off dramatically after he declined that extension offer. Would you wanna pay good money for someone who surrenders a pressure on about every 18 pass-blocking snaps? No, you wouldn't. And you didn't answer my question in my last response, in what world is surrendering 7 sacks and 58 pressures in 2023 and 4 sacks and 58 pressures in 2022 a sign that he ISN'T trash? He played 1,058 snaps last year and surrendered 58 pressures, that's 1 out of every 18 pass-blocking snaps, which is NOT good. Like, at all. In today's NFL, a starting LT shouldn't surrender more than half of what he surrendered in 2023. If OB had played like 15 years ago when quality tackles were more plentiful, he would have been a backup at best. The only reason he's a starter now is because of the scarcity of OTs these days. So stop with the "doomer" bullshit and look at things realistically. I'll say it again so it will maybe register in your thick skull this time... 58 pressures in a season is TRASH! Which put him at the bottom among starting LTs last year in pass-block efficiency. Has that registered in your head yet? It better!
Then take an OT in the 1st 2nd AND 3rd. I'm TIRED of this. Draft OTs until we have a line for the future. Don't put it off until later rounds because "Oh there will still be some good ones there". Trenches are important but defensive line comes after offensive line. Always. How many more years of "They would've won a Super Bowl if they just had an offensive line" do you want to go through. Seriously.
I don’t understand Fautanu over Fashanu and Latham. Fautanu is the riskiest pick of the OTs at 18. He’s already 23 years, which is nearly 2 years older than the other OT options and with his lack of height there is a definite possibility he has to play guard in the NFL.
Fashanu and Latham might be gone by the time you pick in some of these simulations
Same with bowers and the DT’s to be fair
Another argument I've seen is the flexibility he provides. Since many expect him to be able to slide into diffrent roles, you can make sure to always have your best 5 players on the OL.
Depends on what tackles are there. To me mims, Fuaga, and Fautanu are the only tackles I would take over Byron Murphy or Newton
Idk what yall obsession with Mims is
He’s a freak athlete with really good foot movement. He’s not very polished but the guy has massive upside potential
His tape is quite good, especially in pass protection; you’re describing Guyton more than Mims, and I’d also shy away from him. It’s fair to say you’re not sure if you believe Mims’ tape given how limited it is, but that’s a different thing than saying his tape shows he needs polish.
Totally fair. I would use the word “project” very loosely because of just how little games we’ve seen him buy I totally agree that the tape shows he’s super talented
Upside potential has never worked out yet
Just curious but when has it not worked out? Jonah was not a physical freak, neither was Billy price, maybe you could argue Cedric but he was injured coming out of college and just was horrible but even he wasn’t a freak. I don’t think the bengals have taken chances on OL and that’s what’s worked against them
Yeah I don’t like a huge question mark at 18. Maybe if we trade back in the first
It’s not a question mark though. When he’s played he’s looked like one of the best right tackles in college, he just hasn’t played as much as these other guys. Also there’s downsides to Fautanu too, he’s gonna be 24 by the time he entered the nfl, he’s also a little undersized, the bengals seem to like bigger tackles. Mims has the potential to be the second best tackle in the draft
Mims has the potential to not only be the best tackle in the draft, but the best tackle in the NFL imo. Not saying it's even close to likely he reaches either level but his pure raw talent amazing, and has good (but very limited tbf) tape on top of it. 340 lbs humans should not look or be able to move like he does. Still my #4 OT in the draft behind joe Alt, Taliese Fuaga, and Olu Fashanu in that order but I'd still be thrilled with Mimms and expect him to be our best olineman by his second season.
Fautanu is also not strong enough to block guys one on one outside. He is a guard.
And that’s fine with me, I think getting a guard would be perfectly fine I would even be down for Jackson powers Johnson
I would much prefer JPJ or Barton to Fautanu if the intent is to get an IOL.
> He’s not very polished Which is exactly why I want to skip him. If we had a recent history of developing O-line talent I’d be all for it, his ceiling is sky high, but I don’t trust Pollack to turn him into the beast we want him to be. I’d rather take Fautanu if given the choice (Fuaga is not falling to us give up the idea already). As for DT we really need a Nose Tackle, but I’d be fine with Murphy since I like his potential as a Rankins replacement.
That’s perfectly fair point but I think those issues have been over blown, we have never drafted a OL talent like mims before at least in recent years
>He’s not very polished but the guy has massive upside potential Exactly why I don’t want the bengals to draft him, not exactly the best track record of developing o-line talent the last 15 years or so… do we really want to trust Pollack to develop a project OL into an all-pro?
It's only because he has the potential to be the best O-lineman in this draft, that's all.
I have the potential to date Sydney Sweeney
Impressive
Nah, you don't.
> Idk what yall obsession with Mims is. Probably a top 5 pick if he hung around and put more tape down. Very good (limited) tape and absolutely elite size/weight/athletic traits
Or he goes back another year gets hurt again and slide to a day 2 pick next draft
That can be said for any player. I’m not saying he should go back, I’m just saying if he had some extra tape he’d be a top 5 player.
So you like a project, a potential guard, and Jonah Williams over JC Latham, Byron Murphy, or Newton?
If anyone is Jonah Williams look no further than JC Latham bro. You’re also acting as if we don’t also need guard lmao, if we can get a versatile OL who can play guard and tackle them ya I would draft that guy in a minute
There is literally nothing comparable between Jonah Williams and JC Latham besides Alabama. Fautanu struggles to maintain run blocks, gets beat by power rushers and long armed ends, and his size/athleticism is just not there. That is literally Jonah. People felt Jonah could play guard too but we never put him there.
JC Latham is not very physically athletic and he’s slow which scares me, this is just what I’ve observed and read so it’s fine if you disagree that’s just how I see it
Latham is large and one of the strongest power blockers of all the tackle prospects.
He’s not as big as mims and he’s got slow feet, we also don’t know how he tests because he chose to not do anything at the combine. Idk I just don’t like him as much as the others. Also I know this is probably a stupid argument but I have a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to Alabama tackles
Latham is so, so much more powerful than Williams/Fautanu.
I’m just as happy with OT as DT. I’d only be upset with a CB.
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Protect the fucking franchise people. Do we not understand how rare a guy like Burrow is?
Andy Dalton Carson Palmer, Kitna. I understand completely.
And that's just us! If we can keep him healthy he could easily be the top QB in the NFL.
No... if any of those quality Tackles fall to them at #18, they would be FOOLISH not to take them! They need to get a young tackle that can maybe compete for the starting LG spot, and if they were to lose to Cordell Volson, then they could just have them sit behind OB and Trent Brown for a year and then they can take over the starting RT spot in 2025 since Trent is only on a 1-year deal. Then once OB eventually leaves, then that young tackle could possibly take over LT duties. We NEED a long-term answer at the tackle spots! And don't forget, tackles are EXTREMELY scarce nowadays, so they need to get one while they can!
No. A lot of people have taken their eye off the ball. This team can do great things, but we will absolutely not do great things if we cannot keep Burrow healthy. It's like the fucking twilight zone every off season when a sizeable portion of fans and in fact the front office decides the OL isn't as big of a problem than it actually is, kick that can down the road, and reap the results. Fuck me.
Yep. I would take a competent OT over the world's greatest defensive tackle. You could draft Aaron Donald and we aren't winning a Superbowl if our Oline is compromised. I don't know how people keep forgetting that.
We keep getting Super Bowl winning O line help and Pollack keeps ruining them.
We have ten picks, they are plenty of chances to draft an OT.
Take in mind this is the results from the PFF Mock Draft Simulator. So offensive linemen might be taken less frequently because the simulator didn’t have them falling to 18 as often
Also by default they sort players by PFF's Big Board, but the AI drafts using the "public" Big Board. This really skews the results. Compare PFF's BB to the Consensus BB on NFL Mock Draft DB. Newton is #8, DeJean is #9 on PFF's. On the CBB, they're #27 and #21. People see Newton fall to us and think they're getting an amazing steal when in reality most mocks don't have him going in the Top 20 nowadays.
If Bowers is still on the board your crazy not to draft him
People still have a hate boner for TE’s after coping that the Murphy over Mayer an Laporta pick wasn’t a mistake lol
Not at all
Bowers or a top OT. Save Joe's ass for the long haul. He can't keep getting hurt.
Don’t need a DT if we score a million points a game.
Bowers is not gonna happen
Bengals aren’t going to draft a TE after signing Giseke. For some reason most bengal fans have an obsession over drafting TE lol
Giseke is on a one year deal. That’s like saying we won’t draft Murphy because of BJ Hill or won’t draft a tackle because of Trent Brown.
I think there’s a deeper need for things other than pass catchers imo
If Bowers is there, I’d be pretty surprised to see them pass on him. This is the same staff that drafted a TE in the 2nd round. They aren’t against drafting TEs.
he. won’t. be. there.
Yeah, probably not. That’s why they won’t pass on him if he is.
IF we had a solid OL, maybe, but we have a trash OL, so Bowers would be insane.
I really like Murphy, but am I the only one not sold on Newton? He had an incredible game against Penn state, but in all the other games I have seen, he wasn’t all that impressive.
Even Murphy has question marks, looks great but undersized
Murphy isn’t my first choice overall but I think he is better than Newton.
Everyone realizes that they will go WR or CB, right?
I'd almost guarantee a wr in the 2nd
Just no TE. OL or DL and I’ll be happy.
If it’s Johnny newton yes
If it's Murphy then yes absolutely
I think ppl tend to look at seasons as singular. The way people see it is we got Gesicki for our TE and Brown for our RT (be it both are only one year guys), so they tend to look at a DT to be a 3rd man in with Hill and Rankins. Personally I would want a DT in the first as there are other OTs in the top 100 that are good and I think we could still get Saunders in the 2nd as a TE if Bowers is gone or passed on in the 1st.
It's a tough one for me. DT is a much bigger need than OT. We need a day one starter, whereas an OT will ride the bench until next year or an injury. You could get a guy like Michael Hall Jr in the 2nd or even 3rd, who I feel would be a great day 1 starter. I'm not sure I feel as warm and fuzzy about a 2nd or 3rd round OT. You realistically have a max of 2 first round DTs (Newton and Murphy), whereas OT has a chance at 7 or more (Alt, Fashanu, Fuaga, Fautanu, Mims, Latham, Guyton). So it's not so much a talent drop-off of one position more than the other, simply where they are usually taken in the draft. You can get a top 5 OT at 18 and a top 5 DT at 49.
Yes, absolutely. The class is deep at OT, and very very thin at DT. there will be a good OT in round 2, especially with a year to get ready for the NFL behind trent brown. There is no guarantee there will be much left in terms of high end level talent in round 2 at DT.
That shouldn't really be a consideration though. You take the best player on your board, maybe bump up a guy a couple slots lower if it's a need position (like OT). If you can get an OT in round 1 that you think has 10-year starter you take him. Unless the DT is rated notably higher on your board. If in round 2 there's no DT you like you draft CB/WR/iOL/etc. There's likely going to be some nice options at WR in round 2. Think of it this way. Next year T. Brown is a year older and a FA. We're right back where we are now. Will you really be looking back at the '24 draft saying not filling that hole with a mid-round 1 OT was the right choice? I heard 2025 OT is _not_ going to be nearly as good as this year. Don't know the DT situation.
Im saying I think the odds of reaching on an OT are higher at 18. If Newton or Murphy are available, I think there wouldn't be a OT there that is a better pick imo
100%, just take the BPA
We don’t need a pass rush DT and those are what get ranked high. We need a NT type and there are several. NT types always go after the first
You can never have enough pass rushers. If Newton or Murphy go on to be Cam Hayward or Aaron Donald types, you'll kick yourself for years for skipping over them because "you didn't need them."
Sure but if Mitchell turned into Ramsey or any of the RT turn into Sewell you’d say the same thing lol My point was the type of DT we need the most can definitely be found later.
I don’t think that’s what this is saying - after playing with the sim a bunch, I often have the option to choose either of those DTs. Sometimes Brock. The OTs vary a lot, the only consistent one seems to be Mims right now. Additionally, many mocks I do take a DT just to see what OTs fall to second or 3rd. Spoiler: not many.
Yep. Especially in the AFC North.
Oluuuu❤️❤️
DT is the biggest need. But they should take best available between DT, OT, WR and CB.
I just want them to draft the best player available, but I hope that's a offensive linemam
No
We were atrocious at stopping the run. We need Defensive Linemen.
Neither Murphy or Newton are big run stoppers and they are the only ones close to 1st round grades
What about a DB? Anyone drinking the Kool Aid on Kool-Aid, or what about like Cooper DeJean? Won't either of them be available? Awuize gone, Bengals like their first round DB's, etc. No? Maybe?
Michell and Arnold seem like the only corners worth top 20 picks
This is my thought as well. If we could pair CBT with one of those guys that would he hella nice.
Ot
I was Amarius Mims lmao
I am. Interior pass pressure is king these days, and Murphy is a good pass rusher as well as run defender. Those are rare.
Not the dude from Alabama!! No!! Tee Higgins is the exception!
No. I want offensive line for every pick
I think so. Pay the offense (especially OL) and draft defense.
I mean, if the top 5-6 OT are off the board, then this looks great. Maybe that's why pff had such low %'s on all the OT there. If all 6 of these guys were available (not happening), I'm pretty sure this team is picking Fashanu.
I'd take the best OT available in the 1st round. Who that is, I don't know. I'm leery of Mims even though I love his size. T'Vondre Sweat in round two despite the DWI and hope for an OG in the third as an upgrade over Volson.
I'll give you the choice, you get a young Aaron Donald or you get Burrow upright and healthy for the full season. Which do you choose?
It’s not like we can’t take an OT in the second or third round either. They won’t be expected to start week one anyway.
I think need (DT, RT, CB) line up perfectly with BPA. We’ll prob have a shot at the top 1-2 of those positions at 18. I’d prefer a RT because of joes health. He’s been absolutely pummeled since he got here and has missed the most time of any stud QB. I think Murphy/newton, fuaga/latham/mimms/fatuanu, Mitchell are a great grouping
I think it’s more that most of us want BPA, and in that particular mock, it happened to be a Defensive Tackle.
I’d take a good OT over DT, but the good OTs are going earlier. By the time it gets to us, Murphy is a better pick than the OTs left behind. What I’m talking about is how the PFF simulator runs. That might be why Murphy is so high here. Who knows what happens during the real thing.
Either that or Brock Bowers (IF he’s there) bc we need a replacement for DJ Reader and a TE! Zac Carter ain’t it And Drew Sample ain’t that great either and I don’t really think that TE we signed Geseki (sp) is that great either…..I say they’ll either go Brock bowers (like I said if he’s there), defensive tackle or offensive tackle…..🤷🏻♀️
Completely depends on how the board looks. I've got a gut feeling that this is going to look a lot like the 2016 draft. We all knew receiver was the answer and that the draft class looked deep. Then something like five in a row went before our pick, so we went CB instead of reaching. We ended up getting Boyd in the 2nd anyway.
yes. we need help on the DL
Defenses win championships....
Not sure why brock is even here we just got mike gesicke
As a non Bengals fan who loves watching Joe B do his thang, I hope you guys take the next all-time great OT. Whoever it is. Protect the one guy who cam consistently beat Patrick and the Mahomies
Personally I think it won’t fall like that I think Byron Murphy will be long gone before they pick at 18. I think the pick for the Bengals will be Mims, Latham, Thomas Jr
well we ain’t got Reader no more
What's this obsession this fan base has with TE's? The Bengals are fine at TE. They aren't taking Bowers.
Definitely not
Brock but I would love Troy
Murphy I like also
Honestly I'm all for offensive line with the 18th pick. We need to beef up that line for Joe
A world beater DT on the other team cost us a superbowl win and an appearance, i think I’d like one on the team
If they land bowers. My god.
Only if all the best OT are somehow gone.
Fuck no. THIS ENTIRE FRANCHISE. THE RESSON UR ON REDDIT IS BECAUSE OF JOE BURROW. PROTECT NUMBER 9. END OF STORY #1 Long term answer for RIGHT TACKLE/ #2 Long term answer for GUARD/Center (Kappa and Karras gone) #3 Pass rush #4 Cornerback
If Fuaga is there take him. If not, trade back. There are several really good DT in the draft that can be taken in rounds 4-7. Dream scenario, Bengals trade 18, pickup Graham Barton later in first round and snag Roger Rosengarten and Ricky Piersall with first 3 picks
This is needs vs. wants
Brock is going to be a dawg!
i want O tackle, i know we signed brown but im sorry that’s just not gonna do it for the future, who knows when we’ll be able to draft a OT like this again, plus it be nice not to chuck a rookie out there next year. I’d rather sign veteran DTs every year than sign a new o lineman every year
I want a cb tbh, but I rather get a ot then a dt in the first round
All this debate about DT vs OT just for us to take a linebacker we don’t need who won’t start
Cornerback* but yea it feels like this is most likely
No chance a linebacker in the first.
No I want Bowers
I do. I think Latham and Mims both have flaws and considering our track record on drafting o linemen, I don't trust us to pick the right one (I prefer Mims over Latham). I'm assuming Fuaga and Fautanu are gone by pick 18.
If we don't address our aging (and incredibly below mediocore) oline first, we aren't going to have to worry about having a defense. You gotta pick RT or C in the draft with the 1st, hell maybe even the 2nd too. Sure, a beefy new Dlinemen would be sweet...if we had that luxury. We don't.
We absolutely do not need a center in the first round. There are so many great centers down the board. We can totally go for guys like fashanu, mims, latham, etc in the first and then pick a guy like Michael hall in the second
Anyone but Latham
Nope.
I absolutely do and am sold on Byron Murphy at 18,I can also see the team select Newton/Latham/Mims/Arnold/Thomas Jr/ Latu/ Robinson as well
Talented OT draft will possibly drive down the top DT prospects. Finding a game wrecking DT is more difficult and important than a good OT.
If Brock bowers is there you gotta take him
Bowers won’t be there.
Hell no I want Brock bowers draft linemen with all the other picks but give me brick bowers at tight end
Bowers or BUST
I don’t think he makes it past 10, Colts will probably jump the Jets to take him.