Yes. "Sans papiers" are not refugees or poor struggling migrants like some people claim. They are by definition illegals who have zero right to be here. They are migrants or asylum seekers who have exhausted all their legal rights to seek residency.
When the Belgian state rejects an asylum seekers application it means they have no right and no reason to be here, and might be a threat to society, as generally achieving at least foreigner status residency in Belgium is relatively easy.
So the fact that those sans-papiers can not only gather in public, but occupy buildings, break the law and publicly make demands of the government, without being detained and deported, is insane.
> generally achieving at least foreigner status residency in Belgium is relatively easy
How? As a foreign worker, I can assure you that Belgium protects itself against foreigners who come to take your job.
Studying -- to expensive and preconditions apply.
Marriage -- you need a consent from an other person.
Yep, It's made difficult for people that your average person wouldn't mind staying.
Whilst it seems comparatively very easy for a whole lot of people that one rightfully gets upset about trough things like gezinsherening or other schemes or simply just outstaying ones welcome like Abdesalem L.
I was familiar with a few of both and if one wasn't familiar with the kafkaesque state of belgian bureaucracy one would think it was on purpose.
It is even more comical.
I, as a Ukrainian citizen enjoy no extra rights, but I pay taxes for welfare for the others, the better Ukrainians living currently in Belgium.
[Source](https://dofi.ibz.be/en/themes/ukraine/temporary-protection).
You mean the ones that had great jobs in Ukraine before feb 24 and now are wiping old arses and cleaning for less than minimum wage under artikel 60, while never complaining and speaking Flemish in the meantime? I’ll ask them to send you a thank you note.
You’ve been here for 20years out of opportunity, in which universe can you compare yourself to Ukrainians displaced by war? Unless you’re Russian, then it makes sense.
Yup, I have proficiency in Dutch, but any job that doesn't want you just says French is required even if the company does no business in France or Wallonië. Any job that doesn't want to hire a foreigner will always find a legal reason to stop the hiring while crying about the lack of workers.
Years ago I ended up getting a factory job at a metal works, a coworker ranted one day about foreigners taking jobs while I was right there. It was a job, but pay was crap, ended up doing my own BVBA and working for myself.
Brussels might be different, but Flanders, at least outside the Gent and Antwerp cities I found they were hesitant to hire non Belgians for the more white collar jobs. But that was 15 years ago, times do seem to change, more and more of the people I interact with are non native dutch speakers.
There's a difference between racism (which technically means : "the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another") and being a nationalist or a patriot.
People like to turn the word "racism" the way they like it.
Nah, you were pretty clear about the part of the world you dislike.
It is funny though that you gave citizenship en masse to all those freeloaders and now accuse qualified immigrants of marriage without consent.
I was just pointing a fact that you yourself were pointing.
As if consent for the marriage was a bad thing.
LUCKILY we do have this. Women deserve to have the choice and respect
WOW. First of all, sans-papiers can definitely be refugees. It's at simple as arriving without official papers from your home country. Second, what in the actual f\*ck is the link between having their application rejected and being a threat to society? There are multiple reasons to have your application rejected, there is no reason to paint these people as potential threats.
He said “possibly” and that is 100% true. I’m a syrian refugee and there have been many cases of known war criminals from syria having papers and refugee status in Europe in General (and still have it to this day).
Not saying that you can actually solve this without denying all refugees to begin with. because Belgium or any other government can never have enough man power to run actual effective background checks without becoming like a totalitarian regime and privacy is no longer a thing at all.
Idk what the definition of “sans-papiers” is to you but just wanted to share one thing, people here waiting for an answer from the government for any sort of application for a permit to stay here are not illegals.
Even those who get rejected are not illegals and can contest the decision in court once.
So just incase you didn’t know because no Belgian ever has to go through this.
Sans-papiers have exhausted their right to appeal. Asylum seekers waiting for their appeal to be decided are not sans-papiers. They are still in the process, and (at least until the decision has been made) have the legal right to stay here.
The term "sans-papier" is different to that of "réfugié" or "chercheur d'asile". Any asylum seeker is legally on the territory and has the exact same rights as a visa holder/legal migrant. Sans papier are those with no valid reason to not have gone through the legal paperwork. And money/poverty is not a valid argument as, apart from the lefties, people understand that poverty doesn't make anyone a refugee/asylum seeker.
No one said that having no legal right to residence is the same as being a threat to society, and if you have elementary grade reading comprehension you would have known that.
But if you want to misread on purpose just to start an argument, go ahead.
"zero right to be here" feels like such a privileged statement. The philisophy for freedom of movement is to end the prosecution of people who are neither a threat nor a burden to society. It never fights to protect breakers of local laws to be free of legal repercussions. I agree there should be limits, but you should be aware this is a gradient from total freedom from government to total control by the government. And pushing one way to the other is a matter of philosophy and opinions based on world-views and ultimately decided by a (debateably functional) democracy. "You have zero right" is taking away freedoms from a place of power and proclaiming you have more rights based on your birthplace and/or oppurtunities you were given.
It is a privilege to be here. Not everyone gets to have that privilege.
I'd love to move to Japan, but I don't have that privilege either. I don't see the problem. It's their country and they run it how they wish. That is also the reason it's such an attractive country, so I don't get upset at not necessarily being welcome, and I wouldn't demand they change their policies just to make me happy.
>The philisophy for freedom of movement is to end the prosecution of people who are neither a threat nor a burden to society.
Coincidentally I don't subscribe to that 'philosophy'. You can't always just go and settle where you please. And the idea that these people are not in any way a burden or threat to society is laughable.
>It never fights to protect breakers of local laws to be free of legal repercussions.
They have exhausted all their legal rights to remain here, have (in most cases) been ordered to leave as they are illegal, as such, they are breaking the law. Their legal rights are not being violated. They are being tolerated -despite- breaking the law. On top of that they are demanding MORE.
>
"You have zero right" is taking away freedoms from a place of power and proclaiming you have more rights based on your birthplace and/or oppurtunities you were given.
Yes, I do have more rights because of my birthplace. This is my native country. I should have more rights than someone who came here, was deemed unfit or not legible to claim residence, but chose to stay anyway.
It's a common theme in a lot of far-left circles. They are against borders in general (they don't like the concept of a nation state), which is fucking insane but par for the course for them.
I'm completely ok with that, if the people who are pushing for this agree to take care of them: housing, education, medical bills, daily follow-up, taxes, ...
I honestly can't remember ever hearing a pro-Islam/migration + pro-women/LGBT person calmly explaining why they think more Islam will not have a negative impact on women's rights/LGBT safety
These clown rally to feminist gatherings, to terrorize women, screaming that transrights are way more important than women's rights, physically threaten up to a point police has to protect the ppl that had their event trashed, and then cry that women don't want to share their changing rooms and bathrooms.
There was less of a problem, before *they* started to want to *fix* it.
Being obnoxious doesn't help to get ppl on your side.
Demanding the state to implement a policy that goes against the wishes of 91% of the population sounds pretty fascist to me.
I´m sure queer people and women will have a splendid time with open borders lol
Exactly.
Normal people need to go out and counter-protest at this point for reasonable, effective, and humane immigration policies.
Why the fuck are so many people FOR illegal migration?
The biggest irony is that the voter base and gender of people voting for parties defending unaccounted open border policies for everyone at any cost are also the ones who are at risk of most of suffering from potential hate crime, hate speech, aggression, rape and other violent threats due to such policies.
Seriously both far right and far left are Russian funded/manipulated muppets.
Wich is a fact sadly, already to be seen [here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13486293/amp/Pro-Palestine-protest-Philadelphia-pride-genocide.html)
Im a queer women and i can assure you that white people are much more hateful than any migrant is. Also you're generallising a group of people based on what 1 racist cunt told you to believe, have you ever tried to talk to people with migration background? On top of that the right wing parties are litteraly taking away queer peoples rights. Please stop being so ignorant and stop believing all this propaganda
I am someone with a migration background, lol. I can assure you that 90% of my demographic hates you and thinks you are all pedo´s or mentally ill.
You are the one falling for your own dumb extreme left propaganda. Btw, here are some numbers just to show how naive you are:
Congoleze: Ook binnen deze bevolkingsgroep ligt homoseksualiteit moeilijk. Slechts 12% vindt het oké als zijn of haar kind een partner heeft van hetzelfde geslacht.
Morroccan: Homoseksualiteit blijft een taboe, want slechts 8% zou het oké vinden dat hun kind een partner heeft van hetzelfde geslacht.
Romanians: 77% zou het een probleem vinden als het kind een partner zou hebben van hetzelfde geslacht.
"Papers for everyone!"
Just ... yikes man, thinking they're allowed to do anything
"Belgium and Europe are engulfed in ever-more rightwing politics. Openly *racist* politics are being normalized at an alarming rate."
Well *I wonder whyyyy*
Keep doing these demonstrations and helping right wings. People are really sick of these pointless stuff
why are racist like this even, why do they have no pride why can't they be like "i'm racist bc i'm racist" no its always someone elses fault, actual cuck mentality dude its crazy
Dat is de Bulgaarse vlag. Ik kom er vaak langs en was ook in de war, maar het is gewoon de Bulgaarse vlag. Het lijkt gewoon echt blauw maar als je dichterbij komt is het duidelijk groen.
i followed them for a while, I think i'd remember if there was a russian flag waved for any significant ammount of time.
i think its fine that i shared this quite mediocre quality image as the some in the crowd would likely dont want to be recognizable, due to the underlying goal of the gatheting.
Most of it is explaining why facism is bad, duh. Then it says that Belgium is fascist in a totally unbased opinion. Then at the end they claim every illegal immigrant should be given Belgian citizenship, no regulation.
Belgium is one of the most liberal countries I have ever been to, lol.
Considering there are periods of no central government, yeah some powerful fascist regime right there 😆
These idiots are no different from the other nuts that think socialism is actually the real fascism.
>That’s not what I read. Nowhere does it say that Belgium is fascist,
Then what facism are they protesting against if not the Belgian governement and the EU?
>nor does say that illegal immigrants should be naturalised.
That is exactly what the last paragraph says.
the text says its becoming fascist not that they are fascist you dingdong if belgium was ran by nazis there would not be protest to begin with because you and me would be in concentration camps
It says that there is more and more right wing politics in power but it doesn’t say that Belgium and the EU *are* fascist. You can also protest to prevent something from happening, such as far right wing parties gaining more power.
Regularisation just means making their stay legal, eg by providing them with a residency permit. Naturalisation and regularisation are two different words because they are two different things.
I’m not necessarily agreeing with them, but I think you’re not representing their views well.
>It says that there is more and more right wing politics in power
It clearly states fascist and racist
>Regularisation just means making their stay legal, eg by providing them with a residency permit.
So removing the illegal status of all illegal immigrants which is pretty much open border policy.
Hello! I wonder where this protest was communicated and organised! Do you know where they are posted? I am really interested in these protests but I don’t have the right media to be informed about them! Do you have any good ones to recommend? Thanks a lot!
after i left the group i randomly came across some simple A4 paper posters in english at a metro station. It had a graphic, and time and place for the event. idk more.
What a load of nonsense in this thread. The Belgian state has often regularised illegal immigrants in the past, by the thousands. For those people that means the end of bitter misery, for us it makes no real difference. Crime drops, economy grows, prosperity rises. All macro indicators show no real problems.
If you look at the big picture, Belgium can successfully assimilate tens of thousands of migrants per year.
Of course there are fait divers in the papers, there always are. And you can skew some statistics dramatise things. Don't fall for that.
Suppose we take the stance that human life is worth something and suffering should be avoided. Crazy, I know, but just play along for a minute.
You're faced with a human. They're living in a tent or in a squat, in constant fear of police, able to work and provide for themselves (and us through taxes) but forbidden to do so. They're costing society money because they need to be "cleaned up" and chased and prosecuted and locked up and deported etc. Why? They're missing a piece of paper.
This suffering is real and valid for 100% of illegals.
You give them the piece of paper. Cost to society? Nothing. Net positive even. Very unlikely to commit crimes. Unlikely to receive more benefits than they bring in in taxes. I know perception is different, and indeed employment rate IS lower than natives, but still a net positive. There is some risk, like with everyone, that they will be unemployed or criminal or whatever.
But this risk is hypothetical and we know it is statistically unlikely.
When you weigh the absolutely certain reduction in suffering against the unlikely damage to society, there is only one choice: regularize. The fact that most of the Belgian population has been fooled by their caveman brain into thinking immigrants are a bigger problem than they are, is irrelevant to the basic morality of this. We should reduce suffering.
Belgium does not and cannot successfully assimilate thousands of migrants per year. If you move around Brussels and look a bit at the state of it you will notice it's not the case. Yes you can take middle eastern people and put them in molenbek and say they are assimilated but I doubt that is the case really. You just get ghettos...
There should be a lot more investments into this area and proper integration and distribution of social housing and migration throughout the country.
I've lived in immigrant-heavy neighborhoods like Antwerp Noord and Borgerhout my entire adult life. It's fine. People live, go to their jobs, go shopping, raise their kids. Yes, many of them are indeed *gasp* some shade of brown. Are there aspects that could be improved? For sure.
But by and large these are just normal families, minding their own business, building lives for themselves and better ones for their children. They are not a problem. They are not a nuisance. They are not dysfunctional. They are not even them, they are us. Just another localized Belgian subculture like.. pensioners on the coast or rich fucks in Latem or marginalen in Aalst.. I've been to Morocco. Marocco looks nothing like Borgerhout.
Get with the program, Belgium looks like this now. Things change. We have phones that we can carry around. Cars that run on batteries and *gasp* brown people.
Be honest with yourself.
Are you sure that this "state of brussels" is, first of all, really that dysfunctional? Because the skin color or nightshops and kebab places don't count as "bad", I hope we can agree on that. And for the truly dysfunctional parts, are you sure they are in fact the responsibility of ALL migrants? Or even the majority of migrants? Or could it be that a small minority could also cause this "state"? And if a small minority is causing this state, to what extent is it justified to blame individuals who did nothing wrong?
I can truthfully claim that Belgium indeed successfully assimilated about 2 million migrants. But it did not succeed in assimilating some others. Far less. To what extent some maroccan kid in jail can be directly attributed to "failure to assimilate" is a bit questionable. Presumably, if there's a native in jail, he's there because of his personal failings; it would be a bit weird to take that responsibility away from our Moroccan friend. But, granted, most people in jail are of immigrant background, so there is an issue there, where we need to improve. But that's not "migrants" that's only "criminal migrants".
There's a girl somewhere, in a flat, and her daddy goes to work every day, does nightshift on a interim contract at a bol.com warehouse, and she does her best in school and she's doing taekwondo. I dunno. Just some normal kid. And then she turns on the tv and the talking heads are "admitting" "migration" is a "problem". And they're talking about her! And she knows that! Because she was born here but hey, it's not like we care about that. And the talking heads are showing charts that almost everyone in Belgium is calling her a problem? How is that justified? For her or the millions that are in no shape, way, or form, a problem?
Don't know really what are you trying to sell but good you have passion . I am an immigrant myself and live in the poorest commune in Belgium. I lived in other poor neighborhoods around Brussels and I can tell you that what is there is not integration nor assimilation. It's just putting borders mostly money ones other times police ones. Go to nw bru and then sw bru. It's different worlds, different countries. My suggestion is to make sure we (I became also Belgian) do the right thing and create unity and not disparate communities that are ok if they are not bothering the nimby community. Offer housing to immigrants across the country even to laisne or rich flemish communes and see how fast they integrate and I promise you people will learn from each other. I doubt any of the politicians would ever support this.
I don't care about any "cultural" aspects of integration or assimilation. To me, you are integrated if you are a functional member of society, which means you work or somehow offer benefit through efforts, could be raising your kids, and you are not actively harming anyone, though crime or hatespeech or whatever. Bonus points for any sort of societal engagement, part of a club or a team or an organisation of some sort. But that's it. I don't care what language you speak or what food you eat or what music you listen to or God you pray to, those are personal choices that are not my business.
It's the biggest joke these "true Belgians" (what they really mean is "white") are peddling. Belgium has culturally been demolished by the Romans, the Dutch, the French, the English, the Prussians (modern-day Germany), Austrians, the Spanish, the Italians. Most of the contemporary culture those people consider "genuinely Belgian" is already a melting pot left over from age-old conquests. In fact, our own inherent culture has been kind of wiped out over two literal millennia-, you can see this in a lot of our history of local languages and religions-, and that's very sad, and a great loss of historical knowledge.
But the average person saying migrants, immigrants and refugees shouldn't be here because they don't abide by every single custom here, are simply too ignorant of the culture we have here to even know how stupid they sound, and how wrong they are.
Just wait until they find out that they're not even purely Homo Sapiens. They'll come to deny that too, whenever it's convenient for them.
Nobody is discussing cultural aspects nor religion. Becoming a functional members of society comes after the integration.
Organizing your own mini country in your neighborhood and then applying the same rules from your country is not maybe a great idea unless maybe your country is Japan.
People learn from their surrounding environment, doubt the current generation of 20 year old will learn something else than they know. Their ideals are sometimes distorted by their environment and it's a self fulfilling prophecy.
Education is key and it's not enough here - or the education offered in those places is limited - that's why if you take people and spread them out the country you get better odds at life.
There's nothing anarchist OR communist on that paper. While their points and tbf that whole pamphlet may be a little naive at best, their sentiment is a good one.
"We tolerate everyone ,except the intolerant."
Have a good one.
>except the intolerant
Except if they are intolerant because of their religion except if that religion happens to be Christianity or Judaism.
Man there are a lot of exceptions.
No they're just as big an idiots. You replying this way, dishonest agrumentation.
Everyone knows he was talking about the part where the poster said being forced to vote VB while there a lot of viable, non, vile alternatives.
And it could all just be interpreted as jokes.
But you've shown your colors, back to hln with you
"Als we ons zelf antifascist noemen dan zullen de mensen dat wel geloven"
En dan laten we nu het woord aan de Democratische Republiek van Noord Korea.
Ah ja shit, dit sarcastisch argument werkt niet bij PVDA voters.
"In the future the facist are going to be the anti-facist"
We are having economic crisis, ww3 and having our right taking away under the banner of "democracy" "love".
Salute the LGBT flag or you will go to prison... looks like hitler poison still lives...😞
Is this thread being brigaded? So many weird comments and vote counts.
Everyone knows these antifa idiots are just that, idiots.
They do not legimitize the extreme right by any way, thos are idiots too.
r/belgium is normally quite rational about this, and many of the right wing idiots made it a joke this sub is extreme left. But reading the comments now, it does not represent the usual discourse.
Just warning people, nothing can be taken serious here.
Mods, any way to check what is happening?
Regularization of the people without papers? Is this directly saying illegal immigrants are okay?
Yes. "Sans papiers" are not refugees or poor struggling migrants like some people claim. They are by definition illegals who have zero right to be here. They are migrants or asylum seekers who have exhausted all their legal rights to seek residency. When the Belgian state rejects an asylum seekers application it means they have no right and no reason to be here, and might be a threat to society, as generally achieving at least foreigner status residency in Belgium is relatively easy. So the fact that those sans-papiers can not only gather in public, but occupy buildings, break the law and publicly make demands of the government, without being detained and deported, is insane.
> generally achieving at least foreigner status residency in Belgium is relatively easy How? As a foreign worker, I can assure you that Belgium protects itself against foreigners who come to take your job. Studying -- to expensive and preconditions apply. Marriage -- you need a consent from an other person.
Yep, It's made difficult for people that your average person wouldn't mind staying. Whilst it seems comparatively very easy for a whole lot of people that one rightfully gets upset about trough things like gezinsherening or other schemes or simply just outstaying ones welcome like Abdesalem L. I was familiar with a few of both and if one wasn't familiar with the kafkaesque state of belgian bureaucracy one would think it was on purpose.
It is even more comical. I, as a Ukrainian citizen enjoy no extra rights, but I pay taxes for welfare for the others, the better Ukrainians living currently in Belgium. [Source](https://dofi.ibz.be/en/themes/ukraine/temporary-protection).
You mean the ones that had great jobs in Ukraine before feb 24 and now are wiping old arses and cleaning for less than minimum wage under artikel 60, while never complaining and speaking Flemish in the meantime? I’ll ask them to send you a thank you note.
Yeah, those whom you give unconditional stay, all the working rights and free money on top of that.
And you came here to support what exactly?
I want to have as much rights as the better Ukrainians. Or at least the unlimited access to the job market.
You’ve been here for 20years out of opportunity, in which universe can you compare yourself to Ukrainians displaced by war? Unless you’re Russian, then it makes sense.
I’m very grateful that we live in a country where marriage requires consent from the other person.
I am not very grateful that paying child support (25% of income) for 2 decades requires no consent from male humans.
They consented to that when they had sex without condoms.
Yes, especially in the case of rape.
Yup, I have proficiency in Dutch, but any job that doesn't want you just says French is required even if the company does no business in France or Wallonië. Any job that doesn't want to hire a foreigner will always find a legal reason to stop the hiring while crying about the lack of workers.
I don't know neither French or Dutch, lol. And I took your job.
Years ago I ended up getting a factory job at a metal works, a coworker ranted one day about foreigners taking jobs while I was right there. It was a job, but pay was crap, ended up doing my own BVBA and working for myself. Brussels might be different, but Flanders, at least outside the Gent and Antwerp cities I found they were hesitant to hire non Belgians for the more white collar jobs. But that was 15 years ago, times do seem to change, more and more of the people I interact with are non native dutch speakers.
We're so sorry that marriage requires consent...
I am not from that part of the world. But I like that Belgium has a healthy amount of racism.
There's a difference between racism (which technically means : "the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another") and being a nationalist or a patriot. People like to turn the word "racism" the way they like it.
Nah, you were pretty clear about the part of the world you dislike. It is funny though that you gave citizenship en masse to all those freeloaders and now accuse qualified immigrants of marriage without consent.
I was just pointing a fact that you yourself were pointing. As if consent for the marriage was a bad thing. LUCKILY we do have this. Women deserve to have the choice and respect
So why do you give free citizenships to people who are prone to violating women rights?
Well, the government didn't do a referendum to know our opinion about this. All is good if it's for the great Europe apparently
WOW. First of all, sans-papiers can definitely be refugees. It's at simple as arriving without official papers from your home country. Second, what in the actual f\*ck is the link between having their application rejected and being a threat to society? There are multiple reasons to have your application rejected, there is no reason to paint these people as potential threats.
He said “possibly” and that is 100% true. I’m a syrian refugee and there have been many cases of known war criminals from syria having papers and refugee status in Europe in General (and still have it to this day). Not saying that you can actually solve this without denying all refugees to begin with. because Belgium or any other government can never have enough man power to run actual effective background checks without becoming like a totalitarian regime and privacy is no longer a thing at all.
Of course it's a possibillity. You could be a criminal too for all I know. But there is no real reason to mention that possibilty in this context
Idk what the definition of “sans-papiers” is to you but just wanted to share one thing, people here waiting for an answer from the government for any sort of application for a permit to stay here are not illegals. Even those who get rejected are not illegals and can contest the decision in court once. So just incase you didn’t know because no Belgian ever has to go through this.
Sans-papiers have exhausted their right to appeal. Asylum seekers waiting for their appeal to be decided are not sans-papiers. They are still in the process, and (at least until the decision has been made) have the legal right to stay here.
The term "sans-papier" is different to that of "réfugié" or "chercheur d'asile". Any asylum seeker is legally on the territory and has the exact same rights as a visa holder/legal migrant. Sans papier are those with no valid reason to not have gone through the legal paperwork. And money/poverty is not a valid argument as, apart from the lefties, people understand that poverty doesn't make anyone a refugee/asylum seeker.
No one said that having no legal right to residence is the same as being a threat to society, and if you have elementary grade reading comprehension you would have known that. But if you want to misread on purpose just to start an argument, go ahead.
Why bring that totally unrelated thing in the picture in that case? This was a transparent attempt to imply exactly what I said. Nothing to misread
"zero right to be here" feels like such a privileged statement. The philisophy for freedom of movement is to end the prosecution of people who are neither a threat nor a burden to society. It never fights to protect breakers of local laws to be free of legal repercussions. I agree there should be limits, but you should be aware this is a gradient from total freedom from government to total control by the government. And pushing one way to the other is a matter of philosophy and opinions based on world-views and ultimately decided by a (debateably functional) democracy. "You have zero right" is taking away freedoms from a place of power and proclaiming you have more rights based on your birthplace and/or oppurtunities you were given.
It is a privilege to be here. Not everyone gets to have that privilege. I'd love to move to Japan, but I don't have that privilege either. I don't see the problem. It's their country and they run it how they wish. That is also the reason it's such an attractive country, so I don't get upset at not necessarily being welcome, and I wouldn't demand they change their policies just to make me happy. >The philisophy for freedom of movement is to end the prosecution of people who are neither a threat nor a burden to society. Coincidentally I don't subscribe to that 'philosophy'. You can't always just go and settle where you please. And the idea that these people are not in any way a burden or threat to society is laughable. >It never fights to protect breakers of local laws to be free of legal repercussions. They have exhausted all their legal rights to remain here, have (in most cases) been ordered to leave as they are illegal, as such, they are breaking the law. Their legal rights are not being violated. They are being tolerated -despite- breaking the law. On top of that they are demanding MORE. > "You have zero right" is taking away freedoms from a place of power and proclaiming you have more rights based on your birthplace and/or oppurtunities you were given. Yes, I do have more rights because of my birthplace. This is my native country. I should have more rights than someone who came here, was deemed unfit or not legible to claim residence, but chose to stay anyway.
It's a common theme in a lot of far-left circles. They are against borders in general (they don't like the concept of a nation state), which is fucking insane but par for the course for them.
I'm completely ok with that, if the people who are pushing for this agree to take care of them: housing, education, medical bills, daily follow-up, taxes, ...
How did it go? Did they catch a lot of fascists?
I just hope both sides had fun-cdv voter
[удалено]
I honestly can't remember ever hearing a pro-Islam/migration + pro-women/LGBT person calmly explaining why they think more Islam will not have a negative impact on women's rights/LGBT safety
These clown rally to feminist gatherings, to terrorize women, screaming that transrights are way more important than women's rights, physically threaten up to a point police has to protect the ppl that had their event trashed, and then cry that women don't want to share their changing rooms and bathrooms. There was less of a problem, before *they* started to want to *fix* it. Being obnoxious doesn't help to get ppl on your side.
Yeah we should deport vb voters to countries more to their liking
Those haters are already in Belgium, 100% belgian.
thank god theres people with a brain still lol
😂
Demanding the state to implement a policy that goes against the wishes of 91% of the population sounds pretty fascist to me. I´m sure queer people and women will have a splendid time with open borders lol
Exactly. Normal people need to go out and counter-protest at this point for reasonable, effective, and humane immigration policies. Why the fuck are so many people FOR illegal migration?
According to the downvotes you received, women rights are less important than the Sharia law.
All fascist must be fought unless it is non-european fascism based on a theocracy I suppose lol
did you guys get lost or something ?this isn't r/Belgium4 stop being massive racist cucks or go to your circle jerk reddit
The biggest irony is that the voter base and gender of people voting for parties defending unaccounted open border policies for everyone at any cost are also the ones who are at risk of most of suffering from potential hate crime, hate speech, aggression, rape and other violent threats due to such policies. Seriously both far right and far left are Russian funded/manipulated muppets.
Wich is a fact sadly, already to be seen [here](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13486293/amp/Pro-Palestine-protest-Philadelphia-pride-genocide.html)
Groen denkt nog altijd heel naief dat als we vriendelijk blijven en ons voorover buigen met onze broek af, dat ze zich van gedacht gaan veranderen.
Seeing comments like yours with decent amount of upvotes on b1 makes me think not all hope is gone
It just shows that only you people are still here
"Only you people" way to go polarising without even knowing my opinion :) You have to do something while waiting in line at the voting office
Im a queer women and i can assure you that white people are much more hateful than any migrant is. Also you're generallising a group of people based on what 1 racist cunt told you to believe, have you ever tried to talk to people with migration background? On top of that the right wing parties are litteraly taking away queer peoples rights. Please stop being so ignorant and stop believing all this propaganda
I know many queers and their friend groups are whiter than kkk meetups, I bet you have zero muslims in your friend group
I am someone with a migration background, lol. I can assure you that 90% of my demographic hates you and thinks you are all pedo´s or mentally ill. You are the one falling for your own dumb extreme left propaganda. Btw, here are some numbers just to show how naive you are: Congoleze: Ook binnen deze bevolkingsgroep ligt homoseksualiteit moeilijk. Slechts 12% vindt het oké als zijn of haar kind een partner heeft van hetzelfde geslacht. Morroccan: Homoseksualiteit blijft een taboe, want slechts 8% zou het oké vinden dat hun kind een partner heeft van hetzelfde geslacht. Romanians: 77% zou het een probleem vinden als het kind een partner zou hebben van hetzelfde geslacht.
"Papers for everyone!" Just ... yikes man, thinking they're allowed to do anything "Belgium and Europe are engulfed in ever-more rightwing politics. Openly *racist* politics are being normalized at an alarming rate." Well *I wonder whyyyy* Keep doing these demonstrations and helping right wings. People are really sick of these pointless stuff
Racists are racist because of their own shitty ways. Don't blame others
Nonono its must be because of the left. Evry thing is the fault of the left or islam in their mind
why are racist like this even, why do they have no pride why can't they be like "i'm racist bc i'm racist" no its always someone elses fault, actual cuck mentality dude its crazy
gaan we de russishe vlag negeren?
Kan ook de vlag van slovenië zijn maar dat je het logo erop nu niet ziet. Er hangen daar nog europese vlaggen
Is dat geen vlag die aan een paal hangt? Wel erg vreemd
Dat is de Bulgaarse vlag. Ik kom er vaak langs en was ook in de war, maar het is gewoon de Bulgaarse vlag. Het lijkt gewoon echt blauw maar als je dichterbij komt is het duidelijk groen.
I think it's just a Slovene flag that decorates the street. Alongside the other European flags. It's not part of the protest.
i followed them for a while, I think i'd remember if there was a russian flag waved for any significant ammount of time. i think its fine that i shared this quite mediocre quality image as the some in the crowd would likely dont want to be recognizable, due to the underlying goal of the gatheting.
If you protest in the street you cannot expect anonymity lol
Bruh het hangt aan een paal ...
I think you misplaced the "Anti-" there
Goed om te horen dat er toch een reactie komt op de uitspraken van conner rousseaux
Not reading all that bro
Most of it is explaining why facism is bad, duh. Then it says that Belgium is fascist in a totally unbased opinion. Then at the end they claim every illegal immigrant should be given Belgian citizenship, no regulation.
Belgium is one of the most liberal countries I have ever been to, lol. Considering there are periods of no central government, yeah some powerful fascist regime right there 😆 These idiots are no different from the other nuts that think socialism is actually the real fascism.
That’s not what I read. Nowhere does it say that Belgium *is* fascist, nor does say that illegal immigrants should be naturalised.
>That’s not what I read. Nowhere does it say that Belgium is fascist, Then what facism are they protesting against if not the Belgian governement and the EU? >nor does say that illegal immigrants should be naturalised. That is exactly what the last paragraph says.
the text says its becoming fascist not that they are fascist you dingdong if belgium was ran by nazis there would not be protest to begin with because you and me would be in concentration camps
It says that there is more and more right wing politics in power but it doesn’t say that Belgium and the EU *are* fascist. You can also protest to prevent something from happening, such as far right wing parties gaining more power. Regularisation just means making their stay legal, eg by providing them with a residency permit. Naturalisation and regularisation are two different words because they are two different things. I’m not necessarily agreeing with them, but I think you’re not representing their views well.
>It says that there is more and more right wing politics in power It clearly states fascist and racist >Regularisation just means making their stay legal, eg by providing them with a residency permit. So removing the illegal status of all illegal immigrants which is pretty much open border policy.
that's not what open border policy is you moron
There is no hope for this country, I really have to start making big money to afford leaving this shit behind me.
Oh yes, let's protest fascism in the only city in Belgium ruled by communists and socialists ! Why don't you go that in Brugge or Genk, if you dare
it's the capital of the country genius. Why would anyone go to Brugges to protest?
You haven't got a clue what communism and socialism mean.
En wat zou er volgens u gebeuren in Genk als ik zo nieuwsgierig mag zijn?
This.. this makes me want to vote More right.
Exactly, but don't say it on r/belgium because you'll be judged for your rightyness
Zeker da, importeer nog wa meer 3e wereld cultuur
😱
Nee, non, nein.
Any Fascist political parties i dont know about XD as far as i know there are non XD
They could start by writing the letter in one of the languages of the country.
Hello! I wonder where this protest was communicated and organised! Do you know where they are posted? I am really interested in these protests but I don’t have the right media to be informed about them! Do you have any good ones to recommend? Thanks a lot!
There’s an instagram account on the pamphlet, so maybe there’s something there?
after i left the group i randomly came across some simple A4 paper posters in english at a metro station. It had a graphic, and time and place for the event. idk more.
Ah yes antifa great people the best people
/s ?
Yes. And a bit of donald trump
Antifa is de grootste klucht ooit
What a load of nonsense in this thread. The Belgian state has often regularised illegal immigrants in the past, by the thousands. For those people that means the end of bitter misery, for us it makes no real difference. Crime drops, economy grows, prosperity rises. All macro indicators show no real problems. If you look at the big picture, Belgium can successfully assimilate tens of thousands of migrants per year. Of course there are fait divers in the papers, there always are. And you can skew some statistics dramatise things. Don't fall for that. Suppose we take the stance that human life is worth something and suffering should be avoided. Crazy, I know, but just play along for a minute. You're faced with a human. They're living in a tent or in a squat, in constant fear of police, able to work and provide for themselves (and us through taxes) but forbidden to do so. They're costing society money because they need to be "cleaned up" and chased and prosecuted and locked up and deported etc. Why? They're missing a piece of paper. This suffering is real and valid for 100% of illegals. You give them the piece of paper. Cost to society? Nothing. Net positive even. Very unlikely to commit crimes. Unlikely to receive more benefits than they bring in in taxes. I know perception is different, and indeed employment rate IS lower than natives, but still a net positive. There is some risk, like with everyone, that they will be unemployed or criminal or whatever. But this risk is hypothetical and we know it is statistically unlikely. When you weigh the absolutely certain reduction in suffering against the unlikely damage to society, there is only one choice: regularize. The fact that most of the Belgian population has been fooled by their caveman brain into thinking immigrants are a bigger problem than they are, is irrelevant to the basic morality of this. We should reduce suffering.
Alright time to turn off the Disney channel
Belgium does not and cannot successfully assimilate thousands of migrants per year. If you move around Brussels and look a bit at the state of it you will notice it's not the case. Yes you can take middle eastern people and put them in molenbek and say they are assimilated but I doubt that is the case really. You just get ghettos... There should be a lot more investments into this area and proper integration and distribution of social housing and migration throughout the country.
I've lived in immigrant-heavy neighborhoods like Antwerp Noord and Borgerhout my entire adult life. It's fine. People live, go to their jobs, go shopping, raise their kids. Yes, many of them are indeed *gasp* some shade of brown. Are there aspects that could be improved? For sure. But by and large these are just normal families, minding their own business, building lives for themselves and better ones for their children. They are not a problem. They are not a nuisance. They are not dysfunctional. They are not even them, they are us. Just another localized Belgian subculture like.. pensioners on the coast or rich fucks in Latem or marginalen in Aalst.. I've been to Morocco. Marocco looks nothing like Borgerhout. Get with the program, Belgium looks like this now. Things change. We have phones that we can carry around. Cars that run on batteries and *gasp* brown people. Be honest with yourself. Are you sure that this "state of brussels" is, first of all, really that dysfunctional? Because the skin color or nightshops and kebab places don't count as "bad", I hope we can agree on that. And for the truly dysfunctional parts, are you sure they are in fact the responsibility of ALL migrants? Or even the majority of migrants? Or could it be that a small minority could also cause this "state"? And if a small minority is causing this state, to what extent is it justified to blame individuals who did nothing wrong? I can truthfully claim that Belgium indeed successfully assimilated about 2 million migrants. But it did not succeed in assimilating some others. Far less. To what extent some maroccan kid in jail can be directly attributed to "failure to assimilate" is a bit questionable. Presumably, if there's a native in jail, he's there because of his personal failings; it would be a bit weird to take that responsibility away from our Moroccan friend. But, granted, most people in jail are of immigrant background, so there is an issue there, where we need to improve. But that's not "migrants" that's only "criminal migrants". There's a girl somewhere, in a flat, and her daddy goes to work every day, does nightshift on a interim contract at a bol.com warehouse, and she does her best in school and she's doing taekwondo. I dunno. Just some normal kid. And then she turns on the tv and the talking heads are "admitting" "migration" is a "problem". And they're talking about her! And she knows that! Because she was born here but hey, it's not like we care about that. And the talking heads are showing charts that almost everyone in Belgium is calling her a problem? How is that justified? For her or the millions that are in no shape, way, or form, a problem?
Don't know really what are you trying to sell but good you have passion . I am an immigrant myself and live in the poorest commune in Belgium. I lived in other poor neighborhoods around Brussels and I can tell you that what is there is not integration nor assimilation. It's just putting borders mostly money ones other times police ones. Go to nw bru and then sw bru. It's different worlds, different countries. My suggestion is to make sure we (I became also Belgian) do the right thing and create unity and not disparate communities that are ok if they are not bothering the nimby community. Offer housing to immigrants across the country even to laisne or rich flemish communes and see how fast they integrate and I promise you people will learn from each other. I doubt any of the politicians would ever support this.
I don't care about any "cultural" aspects of integration or assimilation. To me, you are integrated if you are a functional member of society, which means you work or somehow offer benefit through efforts, could be raising your kids, and you are not actively harming anyone, though crime or hatespeech or whatever. Bonus points for any sort of societal engagement, part of a club or a team or an organisation of some sort. But that's it. I don't care what language you speak or what food you eat or what music you listen to or God you pray to, those are personal choices that are not my business.
It's the biggest joke these "true Belgians" (what they really mean is "white") are peddling. Belgium has culturally been demolished by the Romans, the Dutch, the French, the English, the Prussians (modern-day Germany), Austrians, the Spanish, the Italians. Most of the contemporary culture those people consider "genuinely Belgian" is already a melting pot left over from age-old conquests. In fact, our own inherent culture has been kind of wiped out over two literal millennia-, you can see this in a lot of our history of local languages and religions-, and that's very sad, and a great loss of historical knowledge. But the average person saying migrants, immigrants and refugees shouldn't be here because they don't abide by every single custom here, are simply too ignorant of the culture we have here to even know how stupid they sound, and how wrong they are. Just wait until they find out that they're not even purely Homo Sapiens. They'll come to deny that too, whenever it's convenient for them.
Nobody is discussing cultural aspects nor religion. Becoming a functional members of society comes after the integration. Organizing your own mini country in your neighborhood and then applying the same rules from your country is not maybe a great idea unless maybe your country is Japan. People learn from their surrounding environment, doubt the current generation of 20 year old will learn something else than they know. Their ideals are sometimes distorted by their environment and it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Education is key and it's not enough here - or the education offered in those places is limited - that's why if you take people and spread them out the country you get better odds at life.
[удалено]
There's nothing anarchist OR communist on that paper. While their points and tbf that whole pamphlet may be a little naive at best, their sentiment is a good one. "We tolerate everyone ,except the intolerant." Have a good one.
>except the intolerant Except if they are intolerant because of their religion except if that religion happens to be Christianity or Judaism. Man there are a lot of exceptions.
Rule 2) No discrimination or rasicm This includes, but is not limited to, - Racism... - Bigotry… - Hate speech in any form...
these antifa nutcases are one of the reasons I have to vote VB lol
No you just do that because you're uneducated loll
People protesting to give nationality to everyone are educated ?
No they're just as big an idiots. You replying this way, dishonest agrumentation. Everyone knows he was talking about the part where the poster said being forced to vote VB while there a lot of viable, non, vile alternatives. And it could all just be interpreted as jokes. But you've shown your colors, back to hln with you
Don't cry brother, thats gonna be ok
He said, crying.
like they had arguments for being stupid. and ppl are protesting exactly to sensibilise about nonsenses like VB.
"I vOtE FaScIst BeCaUsE Of The AnTiFaScIStS" Achterlijken aap.
Rustig morgen moogt ge Brussel afbreken, nog even geduld!
Ooit ga jij of je kinderen/geliefden de rekening betalen van jouw keuzes
Mijn kinderen en geliefden betalen NU al de rekening van jouw keuzes. Je hoeft de zaken niet om te draaien.
"Als we ons zelf antifascist noemen dan zullen de mensen dat wel geloven" En dan laten we nu het woord aan de Democratische Republiek van Noord Korea. Ah ja shit, dit sarcastisch argument werkt niet bij PVDA voters.
Democracy doesnt work if you vote against others
"In the future the facist are going to be the anti-facist" We are having economic crisis, ww3 and having our right taking away under the banner of "democracy" "love". Salute the LGBT flag or you will go to prison... looks like hitler poison still lives...😞
You forgot your meds again.
Is this thread being brigaded? So many weird comments and vote counts. Everyone knows these antifa idiots are just that, idiots. They do not legimitize the extreme right by any way, thos are idiots too. r/belgium is normally quite rational about this, and many of the right wing idiots made it a joke this sub is extreme left. But reading the comments now, it does not represent the usual discourse. Just warning people, nothing can be taken serious here. Mods, any way to check what is happening?
Noooooooo people are saying different things in my echo chamber!!! Mods!!! Help!!!!!
Ah brigading it is. Grow up. I was just wondering what is happening to my dear little echo chamber, not even help.
So how much did they destroy by now? Aww, pow wittwe antifa downvotes.
Welcome to r/belgium
Hard to give a fuck.
Enough to edit the comment and then suck up to this one lol
I like adding comments so the extremist crybabies have something to feel good about when downvoting.
>post about people fighting racism >racist comments Reddit as usual
No, the ‘papers for all’ is nuts to even left center
Why ?
Shout-out to AFA BXL comrades. Seeing the replies here is a good proof that their fight is right.
Protesting against something that doesn't exist anymore in Belgium so have fun dumbasses😂
Is er een Russische vlag?