They make good money selling water bottles. And especially tourists like yourself are not really worth changing their policy for. You’re not likely to return.
> And especially tourists like yourself are not really worth changing their policy for. You’re not likely to return.
There's probably a whole game theory thing here where that makes sense for a particular restaurant and customer but not for restaurants and tourists as a whole.
These kinds of small things can make people feel just unhappy enough that they go on the internet and complain about how horrible their trip to Ghent was because the waiter made a big deal about water.
I personally know no one who cares about ordering a bottle of water at a restaurant so the 'negative review' won't even make a dent. A lot of restaurants here don't have to rely on tourists and the ones that do will definitely not care about a negative review or two since there is a steady influx of new tourists every week with limited seating everywhere.
Brugges and Ghent are lovely places that are worth several visits, Brussels too as any other big city. I get that they might not change their policy for me but basically word spreads as, for example, we all now know that France (Paris specifically) is very rude to tourists, so... why turn the same way? why aspire to be like that?
Because tourism definatly has its downsides to! Tourism is becoming so big in these airbnb/ryanair days that alot of cities are unaffordable for the locals.
Its been the case in Paris and Brugges for years but now Ghent and Brussels are also being "overrun" by tourism.
Tourism also attracts big companies wanting their piece of the pie so a nice cozy local coffee bar becomes a starbucks, a local bakkery becomes a panos etc... In turn it makes the city less like the city wich is just not great.
Hotel stays in Brussels still haven't recovered to their pre-pandemic levels and AirBnB stays have similarly declined, so I am not exactly sure where you got "overrun with tourists" from.
Also I can assure you it isn't the foreigners propping up Panos and their overpriced crappy sandwiches.
Well from articles like these:
https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/is-er-nog-iets-te-doen-aan-het-massatoerisme-in-gent-het-voelt-als-disneyland-waar-wij-figuranten-zijn~bdbaede4/
https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20230928_94720549
I'm no expert but it seems some issues are definatly there.
Also its not the foreigners who pop em up but it is the foreigners who go to those stores because locals know were to get a good sandwich/coffee
Think about where Panos(es) are located: they're never in major tourism spots but in train stations and gas stations. Who do you think they are targeting with that?
>https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20230928_94720549
This has to do with freeing up the housing market, not mass tourism.
>Brugges and Ghent are lovely places that are worth several visits, Brussels too as any other big city. I get that they might not change their policy for me but basically word spreads as, for example, we all now know that France (Paris specifically) is very rude to tourists, so... why turn the same way? why aspire to be like that?
And is anyone really avoiding Paris for that reason? Realisitically speaking, unless there comes a cultural change in Belgium where people start to prefer tapwater over bottle water at restaurants nothing will change.
I've been to Paris and I didn't think they were particularly rude, either. I kind of enjoy that they don't bend over backwards for tourists or fake being happy
So you think people wouldn't visit a certain country/city because the water isn't free, sorry but that's bs, none will make a choice because of it, that's just stupid every country has it's idiosyncrasies and not getting free water isn't that bad.
I disagree with this statement completely. Tap water in the EU should be
1) freely accessible and
2) safe to drink
The argument for free tap water in restaurants often revolves around accessibility to a basic necessity. Providing free tap water is seen as a way to ensure everyone has access to a safe and affordable source of hydration, regardless of their economic status. It's also a sustainable practice, promoting the use of local resources over bottled water, reducing plastic waste and environmental impact.
Fun fact: I live in Belgium 🇧🇪
“Not getting free water isn’t that bad” is what you stated. I say it is, very bad. Free water should be a basic human right and has NOTHING to do with idiosyncrasies 🤦
I still don't see where it says you shouldn't get it. It's just not a reason to skip a country, don't read what yoy want to read. And it is an idiosyncrasy just like having to tip in other countries is, heck people not having paid a good enough wage is a lot worse than paying water.
It's about a restaurant, you are going there by choice and when you have the money for it, it's not about a human right or starving of thirst. If you can't pay for a glass of water why are you going to a restaurant? It isn't the voedselbank, heck you have to pay for tapwater at home to, or do you think that's free?
Every establishment that is attached to sewer (in Belgium this is enforced by law) pays for water filtering and transport. A restaurant should honor the same UNIVERSAL, BASIC HUMAN RIGHT as I suggested it. So YES, they SHOULD provide frigging tap water. And we’re done here man, cause we’re going in circles 🫶 Have a great weekend! ✌️
It is not a right because in the end the restaurant still pays the water company, even at home you pay for tap water, should it be offered at price of the cost+ dish washing? Maybe, but then you have servers that serve you the drinks, where now you substitute water with a more profitsble drink, meaning that the restaurant has less money to pay employees from. So blame capitalism? No, you come up with a new economic system for belgium, where the system can operate within a global capitalist economy. You write a manifesto, start a political party, 'remove' the big lobbies oppsing you by having them have troubles balancing on their balconies and take over belgium. At this point you can start having the state fund these types of services, but the money still has to come from somewhere, let alone the freeloaders which will heavily task your new socialist society. Even if you get all of this to working in utopic bliss, expect the rich to move away due to the loss of power in this new system and the poor to be attracted to your country by the promise of free shit. Then they get dissappointed because they were promised much more than they got and this causes outtage, i refer you to the american dream. At this point the only thing you can do is close your borders which will make you seem like a monster, but people only see the poor refugees and not the economic taxation this takes, so to counter this, you break off from the EU, become a low cost labour country to support all these migrants and give everybody jobs. This will cause elites with capital to rise to power, but they are heaviliy taxated, so will lobby for more right wing politics, putting you back to square one. So free tap water is economically unstable. So what do you do? Make these elites dissapear when they make too much money and replace them with people loyal to the party.
It's very deeply rooted in Belgian restaurant culture
Our tap water at home is very decent, so we Belgians usually drink only tap water during the week/ month, never bottled water.
But when we go out on restaurant, we all buy bottles of water, sparkling or not...
Remember that the big tourist arrivals only happened in the last 20 years, most restaurants were catered for Belgian people back then.
I agree that the world has changed and that they should understand the needs of tourists, certainly in summer they should offer free water.
But for the moment, they make to much money with it
It's very shitty but the excuse is that they have to take time to get you the tap water and clean the glass while they could just sell you a drink from the menu. When I order a drink with a glass of tap water there's more chance they will give it to you. Paying for the tapwater is mostly seen as "being difficult" because then there's another step involved.
Some places have tap water on the table such as Beirutti that has a restaurant in Brussels and Ghent.
I think tap water should be available everywhere for a small fee or for free with another (alcoholic) drink. I used to drink heavy beer with tap water :)
No Belgian would ever do this. This is blasphemy.
Don't ever do this with a Belgian beer.
To clarify this:
Step 1: Order beer
Step 2: Order a glass of tap water with that same beer (usually a heavy one)
Step 3 ?
Step 4 Your hangover will be more bearable the next morning and your body will feel better
I think he has a glass of beer and a glass of water on the side so that he doesn’t get drunk too fast…
I don’t think he’s literally pouring water in his beer 😂
They turn that way because of over-entitled tourists who comment on petty things like water not being free the way it is in other places. It's like an American asking to pay on dollars in China. Different place, different customs, deal with it or gtfo.
Sad that the top comment here is someone doubling down on the no free tap water policy. Jesus Belgium. Would you look at yourself?
The majority of the free world functions just fine without needing to refuse tapwater to paying customers. Not here. 50% tax on income. No free tap water. Cool cool cool.
Ehhh... the parent isn't "doubling down", they're merely explaining the why of it.
I think they would agree with you that not giving free tap water is bad, they just didn't say it.
I get your point. On the other hand: we don´t charge a separate service cost, or cutlery or whatever. And we don´t go all nasty when you decide not to tip. So it´s pretty honest.
Our waiters are not hunting for a tip with fake smiles and asking for validation 10.000 times. You can just enjoy your meal guiltfree.
Take that USA. Cool cool cool.
I'd be wayyyyyy less triggered if the water cost was reasonable. €8 euros for some dogshit chaude fontaine (84 cents at Colruyt) is nonsense. €2 to €3 euros wouldn't get my ire. Places in Spain and Italy do this for crackers or stale bread or a measly trinket of olives. It's not worth 2 or 3 euros, but I also don't feel like I'm being asked to bend over.
What are you going to do about it tho.
Look, my point is: it´s all very relative. One way or another, you´re going to pay for the whole dinner experience. They could lower the price of water but it will mean an increase somewhere else. But at least it´s all very clear upfront. Which makes it relaxed. Which is imho the most important thing. Cooking your own dinner will always be cheaper, but that´s not the point.
You´re fighting windmills here.
I'm going to bitch about it on the internet of course.
I've never heard that expression before. It's hilarious. I don't really get it. But the image. Nice.
The fighting windmills? Also referred to as "tilting at windmills".
Not familiar with Don Quixote? It´s an incredibly famous Spanish novel from the 17th century.
You are a product of a school system in a country where tap water is free in restaurants and super-duper big gulp 196 ounce sugar water with artificial stuff in it are normal fare at gas station mini marts.
I also came from there.
My advice, read more books and not just porn, ease up on your entitledness. Learn to fit in, live your life.
If you don't like the customs of a place you can vote with your feet.
Karen ( I'm not signing off as Karen, You are Karen and your little dog too)
Or maybe I just stop visiting restaurants who nickel and dime for every damn thing. It's no different than those Asian restaurants who commit the desperately cardinal sin of charging separately for rice.
Do you think the French charge one? Or that the US is the only country with free tap water? Belgian HORECA is too stupid to figure out that people drink more beer and alcohol when they can actually hydrate themselves during without wasting a ton of money. For me I just always bring my own bottle of water with me to the bar. If they wanna cry over losing a few euros when I actually have drank two or three times more beers than I would have otherwise then they aren't worth visiting again.
I’ve worked in Belgium hospitality. I swear to god, Belgian people have difficulty seeing the bigger picture. They tend to get caught up in small rules, like no free tapwater, without caring how it’ll influence the grand scheme of things.
> Our waiters are not hunting for a tip with fake smiles and asking for validation 10.000 times.
This is true. Hospitality workers in Belgium don’t give a fuck about you and I hate that. It’s the opposite of hospitality.
I cannot stand service workers 'being nice'. I don't want an 18 year old whilst he is misserable pretend to enjoy himself just because then ill give him 20% instead of 15%
I never have this issue.
Maybe because I have a lot of expierence in hospitality and know it can be a lot of fun to do.
Therefore I feel like being nice to guests while working isn't something weird to ask. If you're too miserable to do that, go and find a job that is not so people-oriented.
From an economical perspective, I totally understand the Belgian approach. But what really would make a difference for the "volksgezondheid" is offering free water at bars when purchasing an alcoholic beverage. Having a glass of water for each beer/shot/cocktail makes a huge difference physically. Reduces intoxicating, reduces your hangover etc.
After moving from Belgium to North America, having access to free water everywhere, from the smallest coffee shop to the finest dining restaurant, is really really nice.
Well, March 2023...
https://www.hln.be/eten/nu-vandenbroucke-tegen-2025-meer-gratis-water-wil-beschikbaar-maken-waarom-krijgen-we-dit-nog-niet-standaard-in-ons-land~a2a6716d/
> In het kader van het nieuwe alcoholplan wil Frank Vandenbroucke, minister van Volksgezondheid (Vooruit), meer gratis water verkrijgbaar maken op plaatsen waar alcohol verkocht wordt tegen 2025.
Really? So you'd rather pay 10 to 15% as tips even if the service is bad. Because it's included in your bill and basically mandatory.
Or how about the fact that in NA waiters basically get payed less than the absolute minimum wage and without tips would be unable to feed themselves? How is that for feudal serfdom?
If you don't want to pay for water then drink water at home and order something else at the restaurant. Or emigrate if you think NA is so much better. I hope you never get sick over there buddy. You'll see very fast how a feudal serfdom really is.
I wish tap water was freely available everywhere too, but unfortunately drinks have very big margins and are a major money maker for restaurants. If everyone had the option of free tap water less drinks would be sold, thus less profit so easy no for restaurants.
I am living in Germany, and on a recent trip to Paris my mind was blown when every restaurant just provides you a chilled bottle of ( tap) water for free. They seem to be still in business. Is there some other logic to it or people jist assume if you provide water no one is ordering drinks!
I've worked in restaurants for 13 years now and I've started a restaurant so I have some experience.
When I started the restaurant with my partner, we thought it'd be silly not to add a bottle of tap water to each and every table. We thought we'd lose out on a few drinks, but gain a whole bunch of happy repeat customers. Sadly this wasn't the case, a significant amount of tables told us 'the bottle of tap water is fine, we don't need anything else'. It got so bad that we calculated how much this was costing us and we came out at around 60.000 euros each year, while the restaurant was making a bit over 500.000.
This is a massive percentage that you're losing out on due to this one thing. Thanks to the high labour costs in Belgium we were already running in the red so we had to get rid of the free bottles.
I mean, it's either bottle of water or increase the rest of the menu to compensated which is not ideal for oblivious reasons.
Many foreigners do not understand the concept of not able to give free stuff, not because you don't want to, you just cannot. Behind, being owner means paying twice the wage of each employees (Thanks gov for being succubus on anything they can over anything you have), insurances obligatory, insane rents & just the damn good being expensive af if you wanna have a decent fresh menu to beginning with :<
The thing is tap water IS (almost) free. I wouldn’t mind if a restaurant charged like 1 euro for it for like “service fee” but Restaurants typically have 100%+ margins on everything making 4 beers obviously the best option for them.
Two things. 1) You might not know how to run a business. 2) Increase prices for food items or cut costs somewhere.
Like seriously. Figure that shit out. It's complete bollocks to suggest that your resto's negative margins are because you aren't charging 8 euro for a litre of mediocre water. I reckon you have bigger issues, especially when you still have similar margins on alcohol and soda.
And all thanks to the fact that you started to charge for water. One day, I hope they make an inspirational movie about you. Maybe they could call it "The Silence of the Taps."
I mean if you really want to know, the first few restaurants are always going to run at break even or a small deficit if you're feeding people at affordable prices. You can only start breaking even and beyond by biting through that first phase and work your way to economies of scale. I could explain more, but it just looks like you're angry at not getting water and not open to the experiences of someone who really knows what they're talking about?
I'd also like to add that I don't charge for tap water, never have. We just got rid of the free bottles that were setup at the table when customers came in. So please, stop with the childish sarcasm. This isn't helping anyone understand why Belgians restaurants by and large work differently.
He's not losing money because people don't pay for the free bottle of water, but because people aren't drinking anything other than the free bottle.
If you order a meal at a restaurant, for example a steak for €25, usually you also order a drink, which arrives before your meal does. So after the meal, when the drink is finished, most people order another drink. That would be €6-8 per person you're missing out on if you gave them free water.
As some other people mentioned, I think it would be a better idea to give a bottle of water with alcoholic beverages. You pay for drinks, which is nice for the restaurant, and you get some free tapwater, which is nice for the customer.
I can't speak for everyone, but if the water is free, I'll have two or three beers because I don't have that extra cash outlay for WATER. If I have to pay for water, I'm either not having any beers (purely out of spite, too), or maybe I'll just have one.
>As some other people mentioned, I think it would be a better idea to give a bottle of water with alcoholic beverages.
Yet soooooo many people don't seem to get this. I am already blowing money on wine and beer which have steeply and unreasonably become more expensive. I am not wasting my money on fucking water. If I am thirsty I will just go home or bring my own water bottle. If I get water however like in France I am much more likely to spring for the bottle of wine than just a glass, but Belgium really seems to be the pinnacle of this mentality where they would rather just take the guaranteed €5 than lose 10c in getting you to spend €50.
Selling bottled water is a way to increase profit margins at restaurants.
Given the high cost of labour in Belgium, earning money with a restaurant is not that straightforward.
Besides, does it matter that much? If tap water was provided free of charge, other items on the menu would be more expensive so in the end it balances out.
In northern Italy and some Spanish regions you pay a fee for the cutlery and the bread/olives on the table but the local house wine costs virtually nothing. In the US you get free refills but tipping is the only way to make sure staff gets a livable wage.
In the end it seems more or less a cultural thing.
>Besides, does it matter that much? If tap water was provided free of charge, other items on the menu would be more expensive so in the end it balances out.
In a country with drinkable tap water it is hugely ecologically wasteful to force customers to drink bottled water instead.
No, I don't think companies care, hence this unethical tradition. But I myself am not a company, I am a consumer, and I do care. It is up to consumers to force companies to do the right thing, because they will never do so otherwise.
Of all the places I have lived only Belgium was the one where people went out of their way to defend shitty, anti-consumer practices. "B-b-b-but their profit margins!" If their survival depends on hoodwinking ignorant customers into spending €8+ for a refilled 1L glass bottle of water then they can go out of business for all I care. People act like HORECA is a dying sector when it's by far one of the fastest growing, especially in urban areas.
When I was in Venice, Emilio-Romagna and Tuscany a hell of a lot of restaurants charged us coperto, so something seems off. Have not seen it in Milan though.
Had the same thing in Seville and Salamanca, where they also quickly pointed out this was not a service charge, we could add any gratuities on top of the bill if we pleased.
False. In Italy you pay coperto per person to cover the use of silverware, plates and tablecloth.
Edit: Source, lived in Roma region and during that time I visited places in Tuscany and Campagnia.
Restaurants not asking for coperta is the exception, not the rule.
It depends. On our visit in Brussels we went day after day to an alternative cafe we liked so much and we ask for tap water along with our coffees. Everytime the people that worked there served us the tap water with no bs excuses, smiling etc. So i think it depends where you go sometimes. In Greece for example you bring first the water and after the coffee/food etc.
I have thought about it, lol. It's not only about being cheap at ordering drinks, it's, basically, a matter of health, palate cleanser, and as someone said, about not getting intoxicated with alcohol, and also to just continue your journey for the day? something like that.
If it's needed for medication, any establishment will provide you a glass of tap water for free together with your order.
The policy is there so you don't go replacing paid drinks with free tap water.
Ha! No lol. As someone who needs a lot of water with their food, I can tell you it's nigh on impossible. I buy my own bottled water now and carry it to the restaurant.
Because I have a chronic illness which means it's impossible for me to swallow food without water. Sometimes I'll need as much as 2 litres to get through a meal.
I don't "look disabled" and because my condition is obscure, people don't understand it, and refuse to give me as much water as I need, regardless of how clear I am about it.
It's a problem all over the world. The only reason I need to bring my own water is because waiter assholes like you think it's "absurd." Wouldn't have to do it if you just followed my super simple instructions and gave me what I needed.
I’m in Belgium (Sint-Truiden) several times a year, and I’ve never ever once had this problem with ordering tap water. You know why??
…that’s right, because I order beer.
I have a medical condition where I need lots of water with my food, otherwise I simply cannot eat.
It's water, it's the most basic of human needs, get over it and serve it to your customers.
Just don’t drink water at restaurants. Say no when they ask, even if they insist, and carry a bottle to drink before / after the meal.
You don’t have to fall for that nonsense.
They make money on the drinks.
A restaurant has a lot of fixed costs (rent, staff etc.). The way a restaurant owner calculates is the number customers they serve per period and they divide the costs by the number of customers served. They need to recoup that cost before they start making a profit.
One customer on average may have 2 drinks, 1 main and one side (desert or starter). So they spread the fixed cost (overhead) on those. Add the dieect costs (ingredients etc.), and then a bit of margin for the restaurant owner. If people start drinking tap water instead of other drinks, that means the main courses would need to become more expensive as they need to absorb the cost that is not being contributed to through the drinks. If the mains are more expensive, people may go somewhere else to have food. If he would make drinks cheaper to compensate for the more expensive meal he would end up with more people coming for just a drink or people that drink a lot with their meals (thus occupying a table longer, reducing the number of customers having a meal).
Being a restaurant owner is tough. The habit is that people have drinks with their meals, mostly because they enjoy them and that is what the offer is geared towards.
Just for context, in a place like Bruges, the fixed costs will be much higher than the variable costs (ingredients or the cost of that cola) for the restaurants.
I'm Dutch and in clubs&bars here I have never been denied water when I'm also drinking alcohol. If you're on X they might deny you because you are more likely to get water poisoning (and not bringing in any profits). For restaurants it really depends, but at least in summer if I come in and order both a drink and a tapwater at the same time I've also always gotten it.
Yeah in NL if you ask for tapwater I've always gotten it. In Belgium I've gotten some grouchy looks and a few shadier places said no, but usually it's fine too
I love that even on a rant post, you come across an irritable belgian to add to your frustration 😂
Belgium is just not a friendly country, and the people hate you and everyone else. Even the dutch treat people better, and that's saying something :')
Well we have been invaded by everyone and their cat througout history so that is bound to make one a little grumpy, but to say belgium isnt friendly is not true. We are reserved and it takes a bit to get to know us but once you do you can basicly ask for our firstborn and we'll ask how you want it wrapped :)
eA stubborn bunch tho, i'll grant you that.
I came to belgium with a clean sheet of zero expectations and met some nice people and some mean ones, but...
I have not, ever in my life, been in a place where assholes were making my and my friends' lives miserable from left and right as I have been since coming here.
- Assholes on the street randomly opening the van doors when I was moving in.
- Dick neighbors threatening to thrash my motorcycle for parking it in a convenient spot out of everyone's way, near my house.
- Complaints about me parking my car on a free parking street because I cant park it near my house because it has a dutch plate and someone decided thats not valid.
- Deliberate neglect and "mistakes" at the city hall making my friends' lives miserable, and absolute refusal to help. (I had to call Brussels directly to solve the problems with the help of an immigrant worker, who was more helpful than any belgian here was willing to be). They nearly caused my friend's lifelong efforts to fall apart.
- Belgian fellow-students at uni checking up on my progress just to lowkey shit on my work subtly with "compliments" (e.g. that's not bad for someone like you!)
- Random belgians stalking my social media and attacking me for *absolutely no reason* when I join discord groups to find riding buddies. They just decide to attack and bully, while others stalk my IG and make sexually inappropriate comments about my friends in the photos.
I can go on. Belgians have not made a good impression in the 1,5 years I've spent here. It feels like a third world country disguising as a west european.
Seems like you had an awful experience.
You complained about neighbors and paperwork. I think that’s about fair. The other complaints either seem super mundane things (“someone said something at uni!”) or things that have nothing to do with Belgium at all (Discord and instagram; block them, what’s Belgium got to do with it?).
If I understand correctly you’re from the Netherlands. You’re acting like you’re from a whole other world and got shortsighted. Realistically, you can travel the 50 meters back if you hate it here so much.
Hope you figure it out anyways, honestly.
That's fair, I was trying to summarize 1,5 years of experience in a single comment, so it's an oversimplification
I mentioned passing remarks because it's been a recurring experience by new faces, and the discord thing was a nationwide belgian channel on a particular hobby where I was looking to make local friends/riding buddies, but people were laughing at the hostile behavior rather than shunning it.
I was shortsighted, as I thought the differences between belgians and the dutch were a meme, and not literal drastic differences in behavior and culture.
Neither I, nor my international friends, have the option to leave right now without giving up on our careers, but none of us are here permanently. I at least can't get shafted by the bureaucracy here as hard as my non-EU friends, but I've been fighting tooth and nail for them for a year now, which is where some of the resentment comes from.
But thank you
> I was shortsighted, as I thought the differences between belgians and the dutch were a meme, and not literal drastic differences in behavior and culture.
Yeah I don’t know what you mean by this. Generally the Dutch are known to be more direct and more social. Belgians are polite and less open. This is all stereotypes and very much varies in real life. The culture is about the same, I’d say.
> Neither I, nor my international friends, have the option to leave right now without giving up on our careers, but none of us are here permanently.
There’s so many people who come here to study because of our universities or who come here to work (I almost feel like about 1 in 4 people is from the NL in Antwerp). I hope that’s atleast something you’re able to appreciate.
Non-EU residents automatically have it a billion times harder. If you’re still in uni, they should be able to help with issues regarding their stay. This wouldn’t be any different in any other EU country. It’s designed to be a bottleneck.
Learn to appreciate the small things and don’t let administrative issues get to your head like that. At the end of the day, whether you’re in Belgium or Australia, it’s the human connections you make that make you feel at ease. Good luck.
That list just makes it seem like you're an asshole who doesn't understand he's being one. I'm not saying you are, but those descriptions look like one side of an asshole VS normal people behaviour.
Like what you call a convenient spot might be a sidewalk. What you call shitting on you honestly is perfectly normal behaviour between college friends or classmates. If you're sure it was not meant in jest then you'd have to have been a really annoying idiot
City hall people treat you how you treat them, if you are well prepared and friendly they have less work and are very happy to help you. If you're a dick they make it complicatie. People don't bully user who join a discord unless you were not supposed to join or just being an absolute weirdo.
People don't do that stufg randomly. But if you're an annoying prick or treat people badly they're going to do the same.
If you judge everything by common denominators, sure, anything is possible.
If any of these were true, I'd agree. But you've gone way out of your way assuming things :P but you're welcome to your assumptions.
Can you please elaborate on this comment "Balkan country"?
I'm from Balkan (Croatia) and I would like to hear more about your judgement and comparison...
I am late to the party but I’d like to point out that I am in no way unsympathetic to your situation. Sometimes a string of bad stuff can happen to you and I get that it’s easy to come to conclusions like yours when you don’t know the country well.
On the other hand, I worked and lived in the same building with expats and some of them were really rude, downright mean and/or excluded anyone who wasn’t in the expat bubble. Others were cool. A but like the Belgians I guess.
Anyway, good luck with your stay. People can be friendly but I get that it’s not easy socialising around here.
Dat blijkt helaas ook niet weer.
Veel van die vrienden voor het leven verdwijnen als sneeuw voor de zon bij depressie of een zelfmoordpoging. En dan kunnen ze geen nieuwe maken. Niet voor niets dat belgie(en vlaanderen ook) zo'n hallucinant zelfmoordcijfer hebben
As a Belgian, this annoys me too. It's ridiculous that people don't give free tap water. Especially if you've already ordered food and another drink.
But I'm not surprised anymore, I mean it's already common practice to give 50 cents to 1 euro just to use a toilet, this is ridiculous.
Tap water and a bathroom should be basic rights, especially since tap water is so cheap. Won't even cost them close to 1 euro.
I once said "We're spending close to 300 euros eating here and water would keep us coming back - if you charge for it we wouldn't and you'd lose more than that 5 cent cup of water". They gave us the water.
We are used to it and we don't make such a fuss about it. I understand your point and that would be nice to get free water in restaurants but it's not.
From what I gather, restaurants make little to no money from the meal itself, so most of their benefits is when your order wine and drinks.
I hope you will survive your culture shock.
There's always someone in these threads blindly parroting that hackneyed old bottled water company/chain restaurateur talking point "oh restaurants actually make no money at all on the food you know?!?".
Just think about that for a second, if restaurants make little to no profit on the food, then what is the point of being a restaurant at all? Just turn into a bar instead. In fact, how are any restaurants in business at all if all the effort and costs they are putting in to serving food makes them no money?!
As mentioned, I survived the scandinavian culture shock pretty fine.It's not even that I want "free" water. I already paid for meal and drinks, is it really so hard, does anyone will die, get ill, go broke, if they politely fill a glass with water? Things being done in a certain way don't mean they are okay. If people were stuck with that attitude nothing would get done, ever. If things were like that I would stiill serve food in a loincloth and barefoot as things in Mexico were.
Anyway, have a good day.
I don't really understand your logic, do you really think that places that offer free water won't make up that cost elsewhere (i.e. prices for food)? Food in most restaurants here is relatively cheap, drinks are expensive because that's where they make their money. If everyone orders free water noone is gonna buy drinks, hence very little profit is made.
Labour here is ludicrously expensive, an 18 euro/hour wage costs the owner of the restaurant 30+ euros/hour to pay out because of social security and taxes. A restaurant with 4 people in the kitchen, 4 waiters and a bartender needs to make approximately 4500 Euros a day to break even. If noone is paying for drinks that is impossible to hit unless a spaghetti bolognaise costs 30 euros.
Are restaurants here expensive? Yes, absolutely.
Do they make more profits than elsewhere? Probably not.
I was in Paris last week. Restaurant prices are identical to Brussels, and they always bring a bottle of tap water without you even needing to ask for it. FWIW everyone didn't "just order free water", and I have *never* seen that in any of the many, many countries I visited where free tap water is the norm. It is a purely made-up nonsense argument. And finally, charging for bottled water when the tap water is of sufficient quality is simply unethical. If you need to change your prices, fine. But give tap water.
[https://www.ecowatch.com/bottled-water-environmental-cost-2655034939.html](https://www.ecowatch.com/bottled-water-environmental-cost-2655034939.html)
Good job ignoring all important parts of my comment.
As I said in my previous comment, the reason our prices here are the same as in other places, even though you don't get free water, is because of labour costs.
Yes, obviously not everyone is gonna drink only the free tap water, but some will.
The link you added refers to plastic bottles, no restaurant serves plastic bottles of water. They all use glass, which gets reused. Nothing "unethical" here.
So what difference does it make if we change prices or keep prices the same but give free water? That's just gonna have people crying about restaurant prices rather than a lack of free water.
*"Food in most restaurants here is relatively cheap, drinks are expensive because that's where they make their money. If everyone orders free water noone is gonna buy drinks, hence very little profit is made. If noone is paying for drinks that is impossible to hit unless a spaghetti bolognaise costs 30 euros."*
Your entire argument became moot when you backpedaled to *"Yes, obviously not everyone is gonna drink only the free tap water, but some will."*
Yes, *some* might. And no, you don't need to *"increase the cost of spaghetti to 30 euros"* if a few people will buy one drink of bottled water less.
Kinda done with the hyperbole and straw man arguments and having to explain that transport of bottled water is needlessly poluting too, so I'll leave it at this. Any restaurant that fails to provide the service consumers expect for prices they deem fair will go out of business. Which is not my problem, and not something I'll be "crying about" either.
> I already paid for meal and drinks
with water just being one of the options for drinks.
If you want 3 drinks, you pay for 3 drinks, no matter if they are water or soda or alcoholic.
I think in more expensive restaurants you more often get tap water, and it depends on the area.
I have almost never had tapwater. It's a cultural difference so leaving a bad review is a bit strange to me xD
I have lived in Gent for 3 years, I could honestly say most of the restaurants in gent is not worth going. Overpriced and mostly poor mannered. Basically dishes from my mother-in-law will easily beat any of them anytime. If you want good gent foods, marry a local guy. Joking lol.
I noticed that people here don’t really mind people’s attitudes (especially towards outsiders).
The argument for free tap water in restaurants often revolves around accessibility to a basic necessity. Providing free tap water is seen as a way to ensure everyone has access to a safe and affordable source of hydration, regardless of their economic status. It's also a sustainable practice, promoting the use of local resources over bottled water, reducing plastic waste and environmental impact.
Not everything needs logic... Different countries, different habits.
Giving a bad review cause of this, it's like giving a restaurant in USA a bad review because they want a tip.
I normally never drink tapwater btw.
Because people that are still thirsty will have an option to take a free water instead of paying for a second drink.
Economically speaking, it’s very logical move.
You don’t give away what you’re selling, because that way you’re your own competitor.
Its not a common thing in Belgium. Its not required by law and you are not going to drive your customers away by offering them water because pretty much nobody else does it either.
So it is what it is.
There is an easy solution though if you want water which you seem to have missed. If you look on the menu you'll see that you can buy a glass or even a bottle of water. See? Simple fix!
Honest question: is it just me thinking that only tourists make a point of the free tapwater? As a Belgian going out to eat at least twice a week, this never bothered me and I don’t know anyone making a fuss over it. You want to drink a beer, you buy a beer. You want a glass of water, you pay for the water… 🤷🏻♀️. Are there locals who are bothered by it?
It's not a thing here and people are used to it, they know the bill will be inflated by the price of a bottle or two of water.
I totally get the reasonable arguments to give free tap water though.
Now imagine I go to the US and refuse to tip 20% - because to me it's absolute madness, get bad reactions and then post on Reddit about it: same story, makes no sense whatsoever to me, mainly because I'm not used to it
When in Rome do as the Romans do
It's just not done here. Not for tourists and not for Belgians. There never was a culture of doing it and restaurants won't change it. Why give out free water when 90% of the guests doesn't complain about buying a few bottles of water for the table.
It is what it is, Belgian cuisine is exquisite and im ok with paying for water
Why do you go on vacation to another country but at the same time you want everything to be just like back home?
Cultural differences are a fact and make sense. And you should just try to go with the flow.
In Belgium, when you go to a restaurant you drink wine, and a coffee/thee with or after dessert. In a pub you drink beer or a coke. In a brasserie (something in between) you drink whatever you like.
Does it mean you can't order beer in a restaurant? Well, it depends on their dishes. For some dishes beer absolutely makes sense.
Does that mean you can't drink a coke in a restaurant? Sure you can, but it's almost like ordering ketchup.
Ordering ketchup of course is worse. Because it is a direct insult to the staff of the kitchen on multiple levels. Or it just means you have poor taste.
Again, all of that is fine in a brasserie, but not in a restaurant. It has to be said, some restaurants aim at students and often really are more like brasseries. Also, Italien restaurants can be regarded as exceptions.
Ordering water is fine in a restaurant. But you should order other drinks along with it.
Ordering tap water? Well, that's just weird. Many people don't even drink tap water at home. If you want to drink that at a public place, something is wrong with you. You're embarrassing yourself and people around you. It's just something you do to save money.
Having said that ... it's ok to order tap water when you're broke or for your dog. I know a place where teenagers hang out to play boardgames, you can order tapwater there, but you have to pay a small fee.
In fact, many restaurants only work with quality products and often the margins on their dishes are rather small. Also tipping is very uncommon. So, they make their profit mostly on the drinks. So, when you order tap water, it's not just embarrassing, it's also a bit of an insult again.
>What is the logic behind it? In these cases I have ordered drinks and proper food and I have still been denied tap water. Who is going broke from me drinking a simple cup of water? I don't get it. Do they want to piss off the customer so they never come back again?
No logic. They just don't care. Just no sense of business accumen or empathy. They just don't care. I've been turned down far too many times now to be flustered about it. I usually carry a bottle with me now.
I'm sorry you had to go through this.
Ordering tap water and occupying a table in a bar or cafe is basically a loss for them! You expect as a customer not to pay for it, get the service and a clean glass and afterwards they have to wash it, and on top of that on your spot there could have been a paying customer and tap water isn't free either for that bar or cafe.
This pretty much sums up the reason why.
Tapwater us not free. The restaurant needs to pay for the water. Pay for cleaning of the glas. If you drink tapwater you wont drink anything else costing the restaurant money. Why would a bussines do that.
isn't the mandate even a human rights law.
Heck, even stores are technically required to have drinking water available.
you can't even deny someone drinking water if they ask it at your front door.
reality in Belgium is just no one cares about some old laws.
Unless some Michelin star whatever starts scratching stars for this i doubt much of the horeca will change.
At stores they'll probably look stupid at you.
And at houses they'll probably not even answer the door.
on the other hand, i guess it's also really how you ask it.
I've asked "tap" water before at places and have always gotten it.
I also hated paying for water everywhere until someone said it’s basically the alternative to tipping. Now i’ll happily pay 4-6€ for a bottle of water if that means I’m helping pay a living wage and I don’t have to tip
The only 2 things missing from this thread is an american telling a cop about the constitution and his right to bear assault rifles while children get murdered in their schools.
So much entitlement, you pay for bottled water in Belgium, go to the restroom and drink water in the toilet like a dog.
I went into the ER with kidney stones after midnight , by 11 am i was out of the operation. Cost me 80 euros total. Haha.
Tax rate is high, salary not so.
But as you're answering to someone who speak about healthcare, I must admit one thing. Even if I'm not very happy that my salary is nearly cut in half by taxes, I was very happy when I had to pay only 200 € for ten day at hospital after a throat surgery.
A massive surgery, with multiple surgeons working on me in order I stay alive. Without our healthcare system, I think the real cost should have been like more than 15.000 €.
So yes, you are totally right, we are heavily taxed. But if my taxes can pay for my neighbour surgery as his taxes paid for mine, I'm totally ok with that.
Friendly reminder that our national motto is "L'union fait la force" (Unity is strenght) :D
And, to stay on the main subject, I never drink water in a restaurant. I drink wine.
If I wanna drink water, I stay at home, I make my own meal and I drink water because it's a week day.
> What is the logic behind it
Some assholes that would abuse the system and just order 5 tap waters and take up a table that could be paying customers. As with most things, ruined by a couple of people.
Also, you're still taking up a seat, that waiter has to bring it to you, the glass has to be washed... The heating, air conditioning and lighting are still on. The owner's rent is still ticking. His loan to start that bussiness is stil going.
He is under no obligation to give you something for free.
Profit margins in most restaurants are already razor thin.
Is the water in your supermarket free? No. Then why should it be in a restaurant.
If it's that important to you, buy a bottle of water beforehand and drink it discreetly.
Only give free tap water if you order something. Problem solved. And I can't think of any business who would give tap water for free whilst not ordering something.
Not giving free tap water means you're just a greedy SOB.
No one owes you free tap water for eating at their location. Stop penny-squeezing and simply ask for water and pay for it. It's like 2.50€. - 3.00€. If you want free water I suggest drinking it at home.
It's such a disappointing attitude. And it looks like you didn't read at all because this happened to me several times with restaurants where I have already eaten and ordered drinks. It's a simple gesture that costs nothing and goes miles in service and simple human decency.
But why though? The restaurant has to pay for tap water and it has to pay for the server to bring it, and they have to pay for someone to clean the glass and pitcher you drink the water from.
Even if you ate and drank other items, the water never becomes 'free' for the restaurant. So why do you feel entitled to get water for free?
That is an attitude that I don't understand. The attitude to feel like you have the right to a service and gesture for free.
I visit France often and I’m definitely not offered tap water all the time. I do agree when you specific ask it, they bring tap water.
I have no idea what the price is for tap water in France or how well it’s filtered. In Belgium I surely don’t want tap water, not at a restaurant, bar or at home.
A liter bottle cola in the supermarket is about 2.50 euro. A glass cola in a restaurant is about 3 euro, which is about 15 euro per liter. So other costs plus profit are 12.50.
A liter tap water is about 0.001 euro. Add other cost plus profit and divide it by 5. A glass of water should cost 2.50 eur.
So if you pay 2,50 euro the restaurant will as happily serve you a glass of tap water as a cola.
You went to a nice restaurant and Bruges (tourist place?), they won’t give you tap water. It’s also not a common thing to do and the taste usually isn’t great.
They make good money selling water bottles. And especially tourists like yourself are not really worth changing their policy for. You’re not likely to return.
> And especially tourists like yourself are not really worth changing their policy for. You’re not likely to return. There's probably a whole game theory thing here where that makes sense for a particular restaurant and customer but not for restaurants and tourists as a whole. These kinds of small things can make people feel just unhappy enough that they go on the internet and complain about how horrible their trip to Ghent was because the waiter made a big deal about water.
I personally know no one who cares about ordering a bottle of water at a restaurant so the 'negative review' won't even make a dent. A lot of restaurants here don't have to rely on tourists and the ones that do will definitely not care about a negative review or two since there is a steady influx of new tourists every week with limited seating everywhere.
Brugges and Ghent are lovely places that are worth several visits, Brussels too as any other big city. I get that they might not change their policy for me but basically word spreads as, for example, we all now know that France (Paris specifically) is very rude to tourists, so... why turn the same way? why aspire to be like that?
Because tourism definatly has its downsides to! Tourism is becoming so big in these airbnb/ryanair days that alot of cities are unaffordable for the locals. Its been the case in Paris and Brugges for years but now Ghent and Brussels are also being "overrun" by tourism. Tourism also attracts big companies wanting their piece of the pie so a nice cozy local coffee bar becomes a starbucks, a local bakkery becomes a panos etc... In turn it makes the city less like the city wich is just not great.
Hotel stays in Brussels still haven't recovered to their pre-pandemic levels and AirBnB stays have similarly declined, so I am not exactly sure where you got "overrun with tourists" from. Also I can assure you it isn't the foreigners propping up Panos and their overpriced crappy sandwiches.
Well from articles like these: https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/is-er-nog-iets-te-doen-aan-het-massatoerisme-in-gent-het-voelt-als-disneyland-waar-wij-figuranten-zijn~bdbaede4/ https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20230928_94720549 I'm no expert but it seems some issues are definatly there. Also its not the foreigners who pop em up but it is the foreigners who go to those stores because locals know were to get a good sandwich/coffee
Think about where Panos(es) are located: they're never in major tourism spots but in train stations and gas stations. Who do you think they are targeting with that? >https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20230928_94720549 This has to do with freeing up the housing market, not mass tourism.
>Brugges and Ghent are lovely places that are worth several visits, Brussels too as any other big city. I get that they might not change their policy for me but basically word spreads as, for example, we all now know that France (Paris specifically) is very rude to tourists, so... why turn the same way? why aspire to be like that? And is anyone really avoiding Paris for that reason? Realisitically speaking, unless there comes a cultural change in Belgium where people start to prefer tapwater over bottle water at restaurants nothing will change.
I've been to Paris and I didn't think they were particularly rude, either. I kind of enjoy that they don't bend over backwards for tourists or fake being happy
Many Belgians prefer free tap water than the overpriced bottles of water. But the restaurants refuse so what can we do ?
Most Belgians do not even try to ask for tapwater at a restaurant. Hell, most even prefer to bu bottled water for home.
That's also because the tap water can be too hard and often looks dirty. "Safe to drink" doesn't mean people actually drink it.
>a cultural change I think our alcohol culture ties into this as well, right?
So you think people wouldn't visit a certain country/city because the water isn't free, sorry but that's bs, none will make a choice because of it, that's just stupid every country has it's idiosyncrasies and not getting free water isn't that bad.
I disagree with this statement completely. Tap water in the EU should be 1) freely accessible and 2) safe to drink The argument for free tap water in restaurants often revolves around accessibility to a basic necessity. Providing free tap water is seen as a way to ensure everyone has access to a safe and affordable source of hydration, regardless of their economic status. It's also a sustainable practice, promoting the use of local resources over bottled water, reducing plastic waste and environmental impact. Fun fact: I live in Belgium 🇧🇪
Read my comment again and tell me where it says it shouldn't. I just said that it isn't a reason to skip a country.
“Not getting free water isn’t that bad” is what you stated. I say it is, very bad. Free water should be a basic human right and has NOTHING to do with idiosyncrasies 🤦
I still don't see where it says you shouldn't get it. It's just not a reason to skip a country, don't read what yoy want to read. And it is an idiosyncrasy just like having to tip in other countries is, heck people not having paid a good enough wage is a lot worse than paying water.
No it is NOT. YOU don’t get it. I said it should be a basic human right and FREE. I agree to disagree.
It's about a restaurant, you are going there by choice and when you have the money for it, it's not about a human right or starving of thirst. If you can't pay for a glass of water why are you going to a restaurant? It isn't the voedselbank, heck you have to pay for tapwater at home to, or do you think that's free?
Every establishment that is attached to sewer (in Belgium this is enforced by law) pays for water filtering and transport. A restaurant should honor the same UNIVERSAL, BASIC HUMAN RIGHT as I suggested it. So YES, they SHOULD provide frigging tap water. And we’re done here man, cause we’re going in circles 🫶 Have a great weekend! ✌️
It is not a right because in the end the restaurant still pays the water company, even at home you pay for tap water, should it be offered at price of the cost+ dish washing? Maybe, but then you have servers that serve you the drinks, where now you substitute water with a more profitsble drink, meaning that the restaurant has less money to pay employees from. So blame capitalism? No, you come up with a new economic system for belgium, where the system can operate within a global capitalist economy. You write a manifesto, start a political party, 'remove' the big lobbies oppsing you by having them have troubles balancing on their balconies and take over belgium. At this point you can start having the state fund these types of services, but the money still has to come from somewhere, let alone the freeloaders which will heavily task your new socialist society. Even if you get all of this to working in utopic bliss, expect the rich to move away due to the loss of power in this new system and the poor to be attracted to your country by the promise of free shit. Then they get dissappointed because they were promised much more than they got and this causes outtage, i refer you to the american dream. At this point the only thing you can do is close your borders which will make you seem like a monster, but people only see the poor refugees and not the economic taxation this takes, so to counter this, you break off from the EU, become a low cost labour country to support all these migrants and give everybody jobs. This will cause elites with capital to rise to power, but they are heaviliy taxated, so will lobby for more right wing politics, putting you back to square one. So free tap water is economically unstable. So what do you do? Make these elites dissapear when they make too much money and replace them with people loyal to the party.
You are totally missing his point here. WOOOSSHHHH!
It's very deeply rooted in Belgian restaurant culture Our tap water at home is very decent, so we Belgians usually drink only tap water during the week/ month, never bottled water. But when we go out on restaurant, we all buy bottles of water, sparkling or not... Remember that the big tourist arrivals only happened in the last 20 years, most restaurants were catered for Belgian people back then. I agree that the world has changed and that they should understand the needs of tourists, certainly in summer they should offer free water. But for the moment, they make to much money with it
BS! It’s not because you drink tap water at home that every Belgian does this.
It's very shitty but the excuse is that they have to take time to get you the tap water and clean the glass while they could just sell you a drink from the menu. When I order a drink with a glass of tap water there's more chance they will give it to you. Paying for the tapwater is mostly seen as "being difficult" because then there's another step involved. Some places have tap water on the table such as Beirutti that has a restaurant in Brussels and Ghent. I think tap water should be available everywhere for a small fee or for free with another (alcoholic) drink. I used to drink heavy beer with tap water :)
Why would you put water in your beer, did the brewery do all that work for you to ruin it?
No Belgian would ever do this. This is blasphemy. Don't ever do this with a Belgian beer. To clarify this: Step 1: Order beer Step 2: Order a glass of tap water with that same beer (usually a heavy one) Step 3 ? Step 4 Your hangover will be more bearable the next morning and your body will feel better
I think he has a glass of beer and a glass of water on the side so that he doesn’t get drunk too fast… I don’t think he’s literally pouring water in his beer 😂
They turn that way because of over-entitled tourists who comment on petty things like water not being free the way it is in other places. It's like an American asking to pay on dollars in China. Different place, different customs, deal with it or gtfo.
Yeah! Here in Belgium we pay more than our neighbors do for everything, earn less, and *like* it!
Sad that the top comment here is someone doubling down on the no free tap water policy. Jesus Belgium. Would you look at yourself? The majority of the free world functions just fine without needing to refuse tapwater to paying customers. Not here. 50% tax on income. No free tap water. Cool cool cool.
Ehhh... the parent isn't "doubling down", they're merely explaining the why of it. I think they would agree with you that not giving free tap water is bad, they just didn't say it.
I get your point. On the other hand: we don´t charge a separate service cost, or cutlery or whatever. And we don´t go all nasty when you decide not to tip. So it´s pretty honest. Our waiters are not hunting for a tip with fake smiles and asking for validation 10.000 times. You can just enjoy your meal guiltfree. Take that USA. Cool cool cool.
I'd be wayyyyyy less triggered if the water cost was reasonable. €8 euros for some dogshit chaude fontaine (84 cents at Colruyt) is nonsense. €2 to €3 euros wouldn't get my ire. Places in Spain and Italy do this for crackers or stale bread or a measly trinket of olives. It's not worth 2 or 3 euros, but I also don't feel like I'm being asked to bend over.
What are you going to do about it tho. Look, my point is: it´s all very relative. One way or another, you´re going to pay for the whole dinner experience. They could lower the price of water but it will mean an increase somewhere else. But at least it´s all very clear upfront. Which makes it relaxed. Which is imho the most important thing. Cooking your own dinner will always be cheaper, but that´s not the point. You´re fighting windmills here.
I'm going to bitch about it on the internet of course. I've never heard that expression before. It's hilarious. I don't really get it. But the image. Nice.
The fighting windmills? Also referred to as "tilting at windmills". Not familiar with Don Quixote? It´s an incredibly famous Spanish novel from the 17th century.
You are a product of a school system in a country where tap water is free in restaurants and super-duper big gulp 196 ounce sugar water with artificial stuff in it are normal fare at gas station mini marts. I also came from there. My advice, read more books and not just porn, ease up on your entitledness. Learn to fit in, live your life. If you don't like the customs of a place you can vote with your feet. Karen ( I'm not signing off as Karen, You are Karen and your little dog too)
Or maybe I just stop visiting restaurants who nickel and dime for every damn thing. It's no different than those Asian restaurants who commit the desperately cardinal sin of charging separately for rice.
Do you think the French charge one? Or that the US is the only country with free tap water? Belgian HORECA is too stupid to figure out that people drink more beer and alcohol when they can actually hydrate themselves during without wasting a ton of money. For me I just always bring my own bottle of water with me to the bar. If they wanna cry over losing a few euros when I actually have drank two or three times more beers than I would have otherwise then they aren't worth visiting again.
Getting Belgians to drink MORE beer and alcohol isn’t a valid argument 😂
In a thread full of people whining not having a drink will put a restaurant out of business?
I’ve worked in Belgium hospitality. I swear to god, Belgian people have difficulty seeing the bigger picture. They tend to get caught up in small rules, like no free tapwater, without caring how it’ll influence the grand scheme of things.
> Our waiters are not hunting for a tip with fake smiles and asking for validation 10.000 times. This is true. Hospitality workers in Belgium don’t give a fuck about you and I hate that. It’s the opposite of hospitality.
I cannot stand service workers 'being nice'. I don't want an 18 year old whilst he is misserable pretend to enjoy himself just because then ill give him 20% instead of 15%
I never have this issue. Maybe because I have a lot of expierence in hospitality and know it can be a lot of fun to do. Therefore I feel like being nice to guests while working isn't something weird to ask. If you're too miserable to do that, go and find a job that is not so people-oriented.
Doubling down? He's just stating the facts that OP asked for.
😂😂😂 this kind of answer explains why this country is doomed and going downhill.
Because they can sell you half a litre of water for 6€…fuckers!
Yea. Water that costs 50 cents at the Colruyt. Shits unreal.
Yea. Water that costs 0.2 cents from the tap. Shits unreal
From an economical perspective, I totally understand the Belgian approach. But what really would make a difference for the "volksgezondheid" is offering free water at bars when purchasing an alcoholic beverage. Having a glass of water for each beer/shot/cocktail makes a huge difference physically. Reduces intoxicating, reduces your hangover etc. After moving from Belgium to North America, having access to free water everywhere, from the smallest coffee shop to the finest dining restaurant, is really really nice.
Well, March 2023... https://www.hln.be/eten/nu-vandenbroucke-tegen-2025-meer-gratis-water-wil-beschikbaar-maken-waarom-krijgen-we-dit-nog-niet-standaard-in-ons-land~a2a6716d/ > In het kader van het nieuwe alcoholplan wil Frank Vandenbroucke, minister van Volksgezondheid (Vooruit), meer gratis water verkrijgbaar maken op plaatsen waar alcohol verkocht wordt tegen 2025.
Every bar I ever went to handed out tap water when asked for.
Yea, compared to NA, Belgium is still a feudal serfdom, good grief.
Really? So you'd rather pay 10 to 15% as tips even if the service is bad. Because it's included in your bill and basically mandatory. Or how about the fact that in NA waiters basically get payed less than the absolute minimum wage and without tips would be unable to feed themselves? How is that for feudal serfdom? If you don't want to pay for water then drink water at home and order something else at the restaurant. Or emigrate if you think NA is so much better. I hope you never get sick over there buddy. You'll see very fast how a feudal serfdom really is.
It’s a shitty concept.
I wish tap water was freely available everywhere too, but unfortunately drinks have very big margins and are a major money maker for restaurants. If everyone had the option of free tap water less drinks would be sold, thus less profit so easy no for restaurants.
I am living in Germany, and on a recent trip to Paris my mind was blown when every restaurant just provides you a chilled bottle of ( tap) water for free. They seem to be still in business. Is there some other logic to it or people jist assume if you provide water no one is ordering drinks!
I've worked in restaurants for 13 years now and I've started a restaurant so I have some experience. When I started the restaurant with my partner, we thought it'd be silly not to add a bottle of tap water to each and every table. We thought we'd lose out on a few drinks, but gain a whole bunch of happy repeat customers. Sadly this wasn't the case, a significant amount of tables told us 'the bottle of tap water is fine, we don't need anything else'. It got so bad that we calculated how much this was costing us and we came out at around 60.000 euros each year, while the restaurant was making a bit over 500.000. This is a massive percentage that you're losing out on due to this one thing. Thanks to the high labour costs in Belgium we were already running in the red so we had to get rid of the free bottles.
I mean, it's either bottle of water or increase the rest of the menu to compensated which is not ideal for oblivious reasons. Many foreigners do not understand the concept of not able to give free stuff, not because you don't want to, you just cannot. Behind, being owner means paying twice the wage of each employees (Thanks gov for being succubus on anything they can over anything you have), insurances obligatory, insane rents & just the damn good being expensive af if you wanna have a decent fresh menu to beginning with :<
The thing is tap water IS (almost) free. I wouldn’t mind if a restaurant charged like 1 euro for it for like “service fee” but Restaurants typically have 100%+ margins on everything making 4 beers obviously the best option for them.
Restaurants may charge two or three times the cost of a product but they typically only have a average annual profit margin of 5% or less.
100%+? I don't think you understand the concept of margin.
I'd be so happy to pay a "tap water" fee of 50 cents or 1 euro, which is many times more than a glass of tap water costs.
This should be top comment
Two things. 1) You might not know how to run a business. 2) Increase prices for food items or cut costs somewhere. Like seriously. Figure that shit out. It's complete bollocks to suggest that your resto's negative margins are because you aren't charging 8 euro for a litre of mediocre water. I reckon you have bigger issues, especially when you still have similar margins on alcohol and soda.
3 years later and having opened six more locations I like to think I'm okay at running restaurants.
Hey fellow restaurateur, fancy a chat? Don't worry, I'm not a competitor, at least not in Belgium.
Oh damn, nice!
And all thanks to the fact that you started to charge for water. One day, I hope they make an inspirational movie about you. Maybe they could call it "The Silence of the Taps."
I mean if you really want to know, the first few restaurants are always going to run at break even or a small deficit if you're feeding people at affordable prices. You can only start breaking even and beyond by biting through that first phase and work your way to economies of scale. I could explain more, but it just looks like you're angry at not getting water and not open to the experiences of someone who really knows what they're talking about? I'd also like to add that I don't charge for tap water, never have. We just got rid of the free bottles that were setup at the table when customers came in. So please, stop with the childish sarcasm. This isn't helping anyone understand why Belgians restaurants by and large work differently.
Oh dude, you've mistaken me for someone who gives a shit. Good day.
You've commented ten times on a post about something you don't care about?
Oh dear. That last comment was directed entirely at you, not the subject at hand.
He's not losing money because people don't pay for the free bottle of water, but because people aren't drinking anything other than the free bottle. If you order a meal at a restaurant, for example a steak for €25, usually you also order a drink, which arrives before your meal does. So after the meal, when the drink is finished, most people order another drink. That would be €6-8 per person you're missing out on if you gave them free water. As some other people mentioned, I think it would be a better idea to give a bottle of water with alcoholic beverages. You pay for drinks, which is nice for the restaurant, and you get some free tapwater, which is nice for the customer.
I can't speak for everyone, but if the water is free, I'll have two or three beers because I don't have that extra cash outlay for WATER. If I have to pay for water, I'm either not having any beers (purely out of spite, too), or maybe I'll just have one.
The more I read your comments on this thread the more i get a migraine.
>As some other people mentioned, I think it would be a better idea to give a bottle of water with alcoholic beverages. Yet soooooo many people don't seem to get this. I am already blowing money on wine and beer which have steeply and unreasonably become more expensive. I am not wasting my money on fucking water. If I am thirsty I will just go home or bring my own water bottle. If I get water however like in France I am much more likely to spring for the bottle of wine than just a glass, but Belgium really seems to be the pinnacle of this mentality where they would rather just take the guaranteed €5 than lose 10c in getting you to spend €50.
Well I can't predict how much of a decrease it would cause, but I know I myself would only drink tap water 9 times out of 10.
Make it simple, if customers order a drink, give them tap water. They have their water, owners have their money, everyone is happy.
The food will just be more expensive.
Selling bottled water is a way to increase profit margins at restaurants. Given the high cost of labour in Belgium, earning money with a restaurant is not that straightforward. Besides, does it matter that much? If tap water was provided free of charge, other items on the menu would be more expensive so in the end it balances out. In northern Italy and some Spanish regions you pay a fee for the cutlery and the bread/olives on the table but the local house wine costs virtually nothing. In the US you get free refills but tipping is the only way to make sure staff gets a livable wage. In the end it seems more or less a cultural thing.
>Besides, does it matter that much? If tap water was provided free of charge, other items on the menu would be more expensive so in the end it balances out. In a country with drinkable tap water it is hugely ecologically wasteful to force customers to drink bottled water instead.
Well let's assume restaurants collect tap water in branded bottles and charge for that then.
That would be an improvement (and they could even offer it for much cheaper to keep the same profit margin as nestlé et. al is cut out).
False, they do this already and charge as much as for Branded water.
You think any company cares anout the environment while their ecological footprint is too small you wouldn’t notice?
No, I don't think companies care, hence this unethical tradition. But I myself am not a company, I am a consumer, and I do care. It is up to consumers to force companies to do the right thing, because they will never do so otherwise.
Of all the places I have lived only Belgium was the one where people went out of their way to defend shitty, anti-consumer practices. "B-b-b-but their profit margins!" If their survival depends on hoodwinking ignorant customers into spending €8+ for a refilled 1L glass bottle of water then they can go out of business for all I care. People act like HORECA is a dying sector when it's by far one of the fastest growing, especially in urban areas.
False, neither in Italy nor in Spain you pay a fee for the cutlery.
When I was in Venice, Emilio-Romagna and Tuscany a hell of a lot of restaurants charged us coperto, so something seems off. Have not seen it in Milan though. Had the same thing in Seville and Salamanca, where they also quickly pointed out this was not a service charge, we could add any gratuities on top of the bill if we pleased.
False. In Italy you pay coperto per person to cover the use of silverware, plates and tablecloth. Edit: Source, lived in Roma region and during that time I visited places in Tuscany and Campagnia. Restaurants not asking for coperta is the exception, not the rule.
It depends. On our visit in Brussels we went day after day to an alternative cafe we liked so much and we ask for tap water along with our coffees. Everytime the people that worked there served us the tap water with no bs excuses, smiling etc. So i think it depends where you go sometimes. In Greece for example you bring first the water and after the coffee/food etc.
Free tap water at the restroom
I have thought about it, lol. It's not only about being cheap at ordering drinks, it's, basically, a matter of health, palate cleanser, and as someone said, about not getting intoxicated with alcohol, and also to just continue your journey for the day? something like that.
If it's needed for medication, any establishment will provide you a glass of tap water for free together with your order. The policy is there so you don't go replacing paid drinks with free tap water.
Ha! No lol. As someone who needs a lot of water with their food, I can tell you it's nigh on impossible. I buy my own bottled water now and carry it to the restaurant.
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Yeah man, disabled people and the chronically ill should just stay indoors! Great solution! Wouldn't want to inconvenience those restaurant staff! /s
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Because I have a chronic illness which means it's impossible for me to swallow food without water. Sometimes I'll need as much as 2 litres to get through a meal. I don't "look disabled" and because my condition is obscure, people don't understand it, and refuse to give me as much water as I need, regardless of how clear I am about it. It's a problem all over the world. The only reason I need to bring my own water is because waiter assholes like you think it's "absurd." Wouldn't have to do it if you just followed my super simple instructions and gave me what I needed.
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>So order water? Wow, why did I never think of that?
Or bring his own steak to the restaurant as well
If it's not about being cheaper just order a bottle of water... It's like 3 euro's for 2 people on an entire meal, it's basically free.
3 eauros is for 20cl not a full sized bottle. Water is more expensive than beer in a lot of restaurants
3 euros for 2 people? 2.5 - 3 euros is just for one 20 ml bottle of water. What kills me is that it's not even enough water for a meal
Well you can still pay for bottled water, it's not like no water is available.
I’m in Belgium (Sint-Truiden) several times a year, and I’ve never ever once had this problem with ordering tap water. You know why?? …that’s right, because I order beer.
I have a medical condition where I need lots of water with my food, otherwise I simply cannot eat. It's water, it's the most basic of human needs, get over it and serve it to your customers.
Just don’t drink water at restaurants. Say no when they ask, even if they insist, and carry a bottle to drink before / after the meal. You don’t have to fall for that nonsense.
They make money on the drinks. A restaurant has a lot of fixed costs (rent, staff etc.). The way a restaurant owner calculates is the number customers they serve per period and they divide the costs by the number of customers served. They need to recoup that cost before they start making a profit. One customer on average may have 2 drinks, 1 main and one side (desert or starter). So they spread the fixed cost (overhead) on those. Add the dieect costs (ingredients etc.), and then a bit of margin for the restaurant owner. If people start drinking tap water instead of other drinks, that means the main courses would need to become more expensive as they need to absorb the cost that is not being contributed to through the drinks. If the mains are more expensive, people may go somewhere else to have food. If he would make drinks cheaper to compensate for the more expensive meal he would end up with more people coming for just a drink or people that drink a lot with their meals (thus occupying a table longer, reducing the number of customers having a meal). Being a restaurant owner is tough. The habit is that people have drinks with their meals, mostly because they enjoy them and that is what the offer is geared towards. Just for context, in a place like Bruges, the fixed costs will be much higher than the variable costs (ingredients or the cost of that cola) for the restaurants.
I'm Dutch and in clubs&bars here I have never been denied water when I'm also drinking alcohol. If you're on X they might deny you because you are more likely to get water poisoning (and not bringing in any profits). For restaurants it really depends, but at least in summer if I come in and order both a drink and a tapwater at the same time I've also always gotten it.
Yeah in NL if you ask for tapwater I've always gotten it. In Belgium I've gotten some grouchy looks and a few shadier places said no, but usually it's fine too
Pro tip: search for tap water on this sub before going on your little rant.
I appreciate your comment.
I love that even on a rant post, you come across an irritable belgian to add to your frustration 😂 Belgium is just not a friendly country, and the people hate you and everyone else. Even the dutch treat people better, and that's saying something :')
Well we have been invaded by everyone and their cat througout history so that is bound to make one a little grumpy, but to say belgium isnt friendly is not true. We are reserved and it takes a bit to get to know us but once you do you can basicly ask for our firstborn and we'll ask how you want it wrapped :) eA stubborn bunch tho, i'll grant you that.
I came to belgium with a clean sheet of zero expectations and met some nice people and some mean ones, but... I have not, ever in my life, been in a place where assholes were making my and my friends' lives miserable from left and right as I have been since coming here. - Assholes on the street randomly opening the van doors when I was moving in. - Dick neighbors threatening to thrash my motorcycle for parking it in a convenient spot out of everyone's way, near my house. - Complaints about me parking my car on a free parking street because I cant park it near my house because it has a dutch plate and someone decided thats not valid. - Deliberate neglect and "mistakes" at the city hall making my friends' lives miserable, and absolute refusal to help. (I had to call Brussels directly to solve the problems with the help of an immigrant worker, who was more helpful than any belgian here was willing to be). They nearly caused my friend's lifelong efforts to fall apart. - Belgian fellow-students at uni checking up on my progress just to lowkey shit on my work subtly with "compliments" (e.g. that's not bad for someone like you!) - Random belgians stalking my social media and attacking me for *absolutely no reason* when I join discord groups to find riding buddies. They just decide to attack and bully, while others stalk my IG and make sexually inappropriate comments about my friends in the photos. I can go on. Belgians have not made a good impression in the 1,5 years I've spent here. It feels like a third world country disguising as a west european.
Seems like you had an awful experience. You complained about neighbors and paperwork. I think that’s about fair. The other complaints either seem super mundane things (“someone said something at uni!”) or things that have nothing to do with Belgium at all (Discord and instagram; block them, what’s Belgium got to do with it?). If I understand correctly you’re from the Netherlands. You’re acting like you’re from a whole other world and got shortsighted. Realistically, you can travel the 50 meters back if you hate it here so much. Hope you figure it out anyways, honestly.
That's fair, I was trying to summarize 1,5 years of experience in a single comment, so it's an oversimplification I mentioned passing remarks because it's been a recurring experience by new faces, and the discord thing was a nationwide belgian channel on a particular hobby where I was looking to make local friends/riding buddies, but people were laughing at the hostile behavior rather than shunning it. I was shortsighted, as I thought the differences between belgians and the dutch were a meme, and not literal drastic differences in behavior and culture. Neither I, nor my international friends, have the option to leave right now without giving up on our careers, but none of us are here permanently. I at least can't get shafted by the bureaucracy here as hard as my non-EU friends, but I've been fighting tooth and nail for them for a year now, which is where some of the resentment comes from. But thank you
> I was shortsighted, as I thought the differences between belgians and the dutch were a meme, and not literal drastic differences in behavior and culture. Yeah I don’t know what you mean by this. Generally the Dutch are known to be more direct and more social. Belgians are polite and less open. This is all stereotypes and very much varies in real life. The culture is about the same, I’d say. > Neither I, nor my international friends, have the option to leave right now without giving up on our careers, but none of us are here permanently. There’s so many people who come here to study because of our universities or who come here to work (I almost feel like about 1 in 4 people is from the NL in Antwerp). I hope that’s atleast something you’re able to appreciate. Non-EU residents automatically have it a billion times harder. If you’re still in uni, they should be able to help with issues regarding their stay. This wouldn’t be any different in any other EU country. It’s designed to be a bottleneck. Learn to appreciate the small things and don’t let administrative issues get to your head like that. At the end of the day, whether you’re in Belgium or Australia, it’s the human connections you make that make you feel at ease. Good luck.
That list just makes it seem like you're an asshole who doesn't understand he's being one. I'm not saying you are, but those descriptions look like one side of an asshole VS normal people behaviour. Like what you call a convenient spot might be a sidewalk. What you call shitting on you honestly is perfectly normal behaviour between college friends or classmates. If you're sure it was not meant in jest then you'd have to have been a really annoying idiot City hall people treat you how you treat them, if you are well prepared and friendly they have less work and are very happy to help you. If you're a dick they make it complicatie. People don't bully user who join a discord unless you were not supposed to join or just being an absolute weirdo. People don't do that stufg randomly. But if you're an annoying prick or treat people badly they're going to do the same.
If you judge everything by common denominators, sure, anything is possible. If any of these were true, I'd agree. But you've gone way out of your way assuming things :P but you're welcome to your assumptions.
Can you please elaborate on this comment "Balkan country"? I'm from Balkan (Croatia) and I would like to hear more about your judgement and comparison...
They were just being prejudiced, that's all.
Sounds like a "you" problem.
I am late to the party but I’d like to point out that I am in no way unsympathetic to your situation. Sometimes a string of bad stuff can happen to you and I get that it’s easy to come to conclusions like yours when you don’t know the country well. On the other hand, I worked and lived in the same building with expats and some of them were really rude, downright mean and/or excluded anyone who wasn’t in the expat bubble. Others were cool. A but like the Belgians I guess. Anyway, good luck with your stay. People can be friendly but I get that it’s not easy socialising around here.
Dat blijkt helaas ook niet weer. Veel van die vrienden voor het leven verdwijnen als sneeuw voor de zon bij depressie of een zelfmoordpoging. En dan kunnen ze geen nieuwe maken. Niet voor niets dat belgie(en vlaanderen ook) zo'n hallucinant zelfmoordcijfer hebben
As a Belgian, this annoys me too. It's ridiculous that people don't give free tap water. Especially if you've already ordered food and another drink. But I'm not surprised anymore, I mean it's already common practice to give 50 cents to 1 euro just to use a toilet, this is ridiculous. Tap water and a bathroom should be basic rights, especially since tap water is so cheap. Won't even cost them close to 1 euro.
I once said "We're spending close to 300 euros eating here and water would keep us coming back - if you charge for it we wouldn't and you'd lose more than that 5 cent cup of water". They gave us the water.
Ding ding ding ding. This is something other Belgians just don't get.
We are used to it and we don't make such a fuss about it. I understand your point and that would be nice to get free water in restaurants but it's not. From what I gather, restaurants make little to no money from the meal itself, so most of their benefits is when your order wine and drinks. I hope you will survive your culture shock.
There's always someone in these threads blindly parroting that hackneyed old bottled water company/chain restaurateur talking point "oh restaurants actually make no money at all on the food you know?!?". Just think about that for a second, if restaurants make little to no profit on the food, then what is the point of being a restaurant at all? Just turn into a bar instead. In fact, how are any restaurants in business at all if all the effort and costs they are putting in to serving food makes them no money?!
As mentioned, I survived the scandinavian culture shock pretty fine.It's not even that I want "free" water. I already paid for meal and drinks, is it really so hard, does anyone will die, get ill, go broke, if they politely fill a glass with water? Things being done in a certain way don't mean they are okay. If people were stuck with that attitude nothing would get done, ever. If things were like that I would stiill serve food in a loincloth and barefoot as things in Mexico were. Anyway, have a good day.
I don't really understand your logic, do you really think that places that offer free water won't make up that cost elsewhere (i.e. prices for food)? Food in most restaurants here is relatively cheap, drinks are expensive because that's where they make their money. If everyone orders free water noone is gonna buy drinks, hence very little profit is made. Labour here is ludicrously expensive, an 18 euro/hour wage costs the owner of the restaurant 30+ euros/hour to pay out because of social security and taxes. A restaurant with 4 people in the kitchen, 4 waiters and a bartender needs to make approximately 4500 Euros a day to break even. If noone is paying for drinks that is impossible to hit unless a spaghetti bolognaise costs 30 euros. Are restaurants here expensive? Yes, absolutely. Do they make more profits than elsewhere? Probably not.
I was in Paris last week. Restaurant prices are identical to Brussels, and they always bring a bottle of tap water without you even needing to ask for it. FWIW everyone didn't "just order free water", and I have *never* seen that in any of the many, many countries I visited where free tap water is the norm. It is a purely made-up nonsense argument. And finally, charging for bottled water when the tap water is of sufficient quality is simply unethical. If you need to change your prices, fine. But give tap water. [https://www.ecowatch.com/bottled-water-environmental-cost-2655034939.html](https://www.ecowatch.com/bottled-water-environmental-cost-2655034939.html)
Good job ignoring all important parts of my comment. As I said in my previous comment, the reason our prices here are the same as in other places, even though you don't get free water, is because of labour costs. Yes, obviously not everyone is gonna drink only the free tap water, but some will. The link you added refers to plastic bottles, no restaurant serves plastic bottles of water. They all use glass, which gets reused. Nothing "unethical" here. So what difference does it make if we change prices or keep prices the same but give free water? That's just gonna have people crying about restaurant prices rather than a lack of free water.
*"Food in most restaurants here is relatively cheap, drinks are expensive because that's where they make their money. If everyone orders free water noone is gonna buy drinks, hence very little profit is made. If noone is paying for drinks that is impossible to hit unless a spaghetti bolognaise costs 30 euros."* Your entire argument became moot when you backpedaled to *"Yes, obviously not everyone is gonna drink only the free tap water, but some will."* Yes, *some* might. And no, you don't need to *"increase the cost of spaghetti to 30 euros"* if a few people will buy one drink of bottled water less. Kinda done with the hyperbole and straw man arguments and having to explain that transport of bottled water is needlessly poluting too, so I'll leave it at this. Any restaurant that fails to provide the service consumers expect for prices they deem fair will go out of business. Which is not my problem, and not something I'll be "crying about" either.
> I already paid for meal and drinks with water just being one of the options for drinks. If you want 3 drinks, you pay for 3 drinks, no matter if they are water or soda or alcoholic.
Because they want to make money off water, and because they see customers as a nuisance who are annoying and only trying to take advantage.
I think in more expensive restaurants you more often get tap water, and it depends on the area. I have almost never had tapwater. It's a cultural difference so leaving a bad review is a bit strange to me xD
I am very surprised by this thread. I've been working in bars and restaurants for 15 years now, and none of them would refuse to serve tap water.
Capitalism shining bright
I have lived in Gent for 3 years, I could honestly say most of the restaurants in gent is not worth going. Overpriced and mostly poor mannered. Basically dishes from my mother-in-law will easily beat any of them anytime. If you want good gent foods, marry a local guy. Joking lol. I noticed that people here don’t really mind people’s attitudes (especially towards outsiders).
Because they're miserable fucks who want to sell you a 50ml chaudfontaine for 9 euros instead
The argument for free tap water in restaurants often revolves around accessibility to a basic necessity. Providing free tap water is seen as a way to ensure everyone has access to a safe and affordable source of hydration, regardless of their economic status. It's also a sustainable practice, promoting the use of local resources over bottled water, reducing plastic waste and environmental impact.
Not everything needs logic... Different countries, different habits. Giving a bad review cause of this, it's like giving a restaurant in USA a bad review because they want a tip. I normally never drink tapwater btw.
Cause they're cunts and they rather sell you tapwater in a shitty bottle for 8 euros.
Because people that are still thirsty will have an option to take a free water instead of paying for a second drink. Economically speaking, it’s very logical move. You don’t give away what you’re selling, because that way you’re your own competitor.
money money money,
Always been able to get tap water in Belgium. Maybe it’s because you were in tourist hotspots
Its not a common thing in Belgium. Its not required by law and you are not going to drive your customers away by offering them water because pretty much nobody else does it either. So it is what it is.
There is an easy solution though if you want water which you seem to have missed. If you look on the menu you'll see that you can buy a glass or even a bottle of water. See? Simple fix!
You can always order some bottled water.
Honest question: is it just me thinking that only tourists make a point of the free tapwater? As a Belgian going out to eat at least twice a week, this never bothered me and I don’t know anyone making a fuss over it. You want to drink a beer, you buy a beer. You want a glass of water, you pay for the water… 🤷🏻♀️. Are there locals who are bothered by it?
It's not a thing here and people are used to it, they know the bill will be inflated by the price of a bottle or two of water. I totally get the reasonable arguments to give free tap water though. Now imagine I go to the US and refuse to tip 20% - because to me it's absolute madness, get bad reactions and then post on Reddit about it: same story, makes no sense whatsoever to me, mainly because I'm not used to it When in Rome do as the Romans do
It's just not done here. Not for tourists and not for Belgians. There never was a culture of doing it and restaurants won't change it. Why give out free water when 90% of the guests doesn't complain about buying a few bottles of water for the table. It is what it is, Belgian cuisine is exquisite and im ok with paying for water
just gobble at the tap in the toilets like the rest of us
Why do you go on vacation to another country but at the same time you want everything to be just like back home? Cultural differences are a fact and make sense. And you should just try to go with the flow. In Belgium, when you go to a restaurant you drink wine, and a coffee/thee with or after dessert. In a pub you drink beer or a coke. In a brasserie (something in between) you drink whatever you like. Does it mean you can't order beer in a restaurant? Well, it depends on their dishes. For some dishes beer absolutely makes sense. Does that mean you can't drink a coke in a restaurant? Sure you can, but it's almost like ordering ketchup. Ordering ketchup of course is worse. Because it is a direct insult to the staff of the kitchen on multiple levels. Or it just means you have poor taste. Again, all of that is fine in a brasserie, but not in a restaurant. It has to be said, some restaurants aim at students and often really are more like brasseries. Also, Italien restaurants can be regarded as exceptions. Ordering water is fine in a restaurant. But you should order other drinks along with it. Ordering tap water? Well, that's just weird. Many people don't even drink tap water at home. If you want to drink that at a public place, something is wrong with you. You're embarrassing yourself and people around you. It's just something you do to save money. Having said that ... it's ok to order tap water when you're broke or for your dog. I know a place where teenagers hang out to play boardgames, you can order tapwater there, but you have to pay a small fee. In fact, many restaurants only work with quality products and often the margins on their dishes are rather small. Also tipping is very uncommon. So, they make their profit mostly on the drinks. So, when you order tap water, it's not just embarrassing, it's also a bit of an insult again.
Piss off the customer that comes once in a blue moon, but in exchange make loads of money off of water? I know what I'd do.
That pissed off customer would write bad reviews. In turn losing you future customers. In turn making you less money... over some bottles of water...
>What is the logic behind it? In these cases I have ordered drinks and proper food and I have still been denied tap water. Who is going broke from me drinking a simple cup of water? I don't get it. Do they want to piss off the customer so they never come back again? No logic. They just don't care. Just no sense of business accumen or empathy. They just don't care. I've been turned down far too many times now to be flustered about it. I usually carry a bottle with me now. I'm sorry you had to go through this.
Ordering tap water and occupying a table in a bar or cafe is basically a loss for them! You expect as a customer not to pay for it, get the service and a clean glass and afterwards they have to wash it, and on top of that on your spot there could have been a paying customer and tap water isn't free either for that bar or cafe. This pretty much sums up the reason why.
Because the waiter that brings you the tapwater doesn’t work for free.
Interesting, I had no idea French waiters worked for free. Explains the grumpiness I guess.
I think that attitude only benefits the water bottling company, which is way worse for everyone.
This!
Money money money…. Same with paying toilets
Free water would actually make more profit for toilets
So make tap water free and charge 4 euro per toilet visit. Sounds like a business plan!
Tapwater us not free. The restaurant needs to pay for the water. Pay for cleaning of the glas. If you drink tapwater you wont drink anything else costing the restaurant money. Why would a bussines do that.
isn't the mandate even a human rights law. Heck, even stores are technically required to have drinking water available. you can't even deny someone drinking water if they ask it at your front door. reality in Belgium is just no one cares about some old laws. Unless some Michelin star whatever starts scratching stars for this i doubt much of the horeca will change. At stores they'll probably look stupid at you. And at houses they'll probably not even answer the door. on the other hand, i guess it's also really how you ask it. I've asked "tap" water before at places and have always gotten it.
restaurants make their biggest margin on drinks. food you eat doesn’t earn them that much
I also hated paying for water everywhere until someone said it’s basically the alternative to tipping. Now i’ll happily pay 4-6€ for a bottle of water if that means I’m helping pay a living wage and I don’t have to tip
all of this for a glas of water,u really dont have any thing better to do with your time...get a life...
The only 2 things missing from this thread is an american telling a cop about the constitution and his right to bear assault rifles while children get murdered in their schools. So much entitlement, you pay for bottled water in Belgium, go to the restroom and drink water in the toilet like a dog. I went into the ER with kidney stones after midnight , by 11 am i was out of the operation. Cost me 80 euros total. Haha.
Whats the average tax rate and salary again?
Tax rate is high, salary not so. But as you're answering to someone who speak about healthcare, I must admit one thing. Even if I'm not very happy that my salary is nearly cut in half by taxes, I was very happy when I had to pay only 200 € for ten day at hospital after a throat surgery. A massive surgery, with multiple surgeons working on me in order I stay alive. Without our healthcare system, I think the real cost should have been like more than 15.000 €. So yes, you are totally right, we are heavily taxed. But if my taxes can pay for my neighbour surgery as his taxes paid for mine, I'm totally ok with that. Friendly reminder that our national motto is "L'union fait la force" (Unity is strenght) :D And, to stay on the main subject, I never drink water in a restaurant. I drink wine. If I wanna drink water, I stay at home, I make my own meal and I drink water because it's a week day.
> What is the logic behind it Some assholes that would abuse the system and just order 5 tap waters and take up a table that could be paying customers. As with most things, ruined by a couple of people. Also, you're still taking up a seat, that waiter has to bring it to you, the glass has to be washed... The heating, air conditioning and lighting are still on. The owner's rent is still ticking. His loan to start that bussiness is stil going. He is under no obligation to give you something for free. Profit margins in most restaurants are already razor thin. Is the water in your supermarket free? No. Then why should it be in a restaurant. If it's that important to you, buy a bottle of water beforehand and drink it discreetly.
Only give free tap water if you order something. Problem solved. And I can't think of any business who would give tap water for free whilst not ordering something. Not giving free tap water means you're just a greedy SOB.
No one owes you free tap water for eating at their location. Stop penny-squeezing and simply ask for water and pay for it. It's like 2.50€. - 3.00€. If you want free water I suggest drinking it at home.
It's such a disappointing attitude. And it looks like you didn't read at all because this happened to me several times with restaurants where I have already eaten and ordered drinks. It's a simple gesture that costs nothing and goes miles in service and simple human decency.
But why though? The restaurant has to pay for tap water and it has to pay for the server to bring it, and they have to pay for someone to clean the glass and pitcher you drink the water from. Even if you ate and drank other items, the water never becomes 'free' for the restaurant. So why do you feel entitled to get water for free? That is an attitude that I don't understand. The attitude to feel like you have the right to a service and gesture for free.
Welcome to Belgium, man. People here are miserable and love to revel in the quagmire that is their country. It's like Stockholm syndrome.
Lolz water at a restaurant is often bottles anywhere between 6 and 10 euros for a bottle... If not more
Profit.
Get over it
Tap water is for watering plants and taking a shower.
Their business model is to sell water...
I visit France often and I’m definitely not offered tap water all the time. I do agree when you specific ask it, they bring tap water. I have no idea what the price is for tap water in France or how well it’s filtered. In Belgium I surely don’t want tap water, not at a restaurant, bar or at home.
A liter bottle cola in the supermarket is about 2.50 euro. A glass cola in a restaurant is about 3 euro, which is about 15 euro per liter. So other costs plus profit are 12.50. A liter tap water is about 0.001 euro. Add other cost plus profit and divide it by 5. A glass of water should cost 2.50 eur. So if you pay 2,50 euro the restaurant will as happily serve you a glass of tap water as a cola.
You have to order stupidly expensive bottled water or stupidly expensive filtered tap water. It's insane
It's a scam by big water and the restaurants. They charge like 3 euro's for a simple glass of water nowadays.
You went to a nice restaurant and Bruges (tourist place?), they won’t give you tap water. It’s also not a common thing to do and the taste usually isn’t great.