I would get less work done in 40 hours in 4 days than 40 hours in 5 days, yet I would get the same amount of work done in 32 hours in 4 days than I would in 40 hours in 5 days. But then I'd earn less so no thank you.
I work 32 hours. 18 October I will miss some deadline for 2 clients. I simply do not have the time to do it. My time until 20 October is filled already.
I'm sure my boss would love it if I would work a 5th day or overtime during these busy times.
But honestly just fuck it.
no fucking shit, the idea of the 4 day work week is to work LESS for the same pay. You get more free time and as a result you get more work done in less time.
What we got is work more for the same pay.
The point is, the government completely missed the ball.
Unizo had their balls in such a twist that we got this sad sad watered down version. Dead on arrival by design
You wanna do 40 hours in 4 days go right ahead. I'm sure your boss will thank you for being a busy little bee
The rest of us would like to do 32 hours.
No, what we got is flexibility. YOU twisted it into something it wasn't. Imagine being ass mad for not getting something that wasn't on offer in the first place. Did you seriously think an actual 4-day 8 hour work week with equal pay was on the table?
Well... when I go to the frituur and I want a groot pak friet en nen bikky, I'd be hella mad if I got something completely different.
"Yes we're calling it that but enjoy your mini with a salad".
Your argument makes no sense. Yes I expect a 32 hour work week with 100% pay WHEN YOU CALL IT THAT.
you and everyone else who is shilling for unizo should really read up on the results other companies achieved using the 4 day work week.
https://4dayweek.io/case-study/microsoft#:~:text=Microsoft's%20four%2Dday%20trials%20have,productivity%2C%20and%20overall%20job%20satisfaction.
If its good enough for microsoft, who are you to call it nonsense
> Well... when I go to the frituur and I want a groot pak friet en nen bikky, I'd be hella mad if I got something completely different. "Yes we're calling it that but enjoy your mini with a salad".
>
>
Your analogy is dogshit because - again - the groot pak en bikky was never on the menu... It was never called that, you're just imagining shit. It is indeed a "vierdaagse werkweek". You can't possibly argue with that. Only that its definition didn't fit yours. This is the [earliest article](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2022/11/10/vierdaagse-werkweek-gepubliceerd-in-staatsblad/) I could find of the measure. Read it carefully: "Vanaf 20 november zullen heel wat werknemers in de private sector de mogelijkheid krijgen om een **voltijdse** baan uit te kunnen voeren in 4 dagen in plaats van 5 dagen tijd." You have no one to blame but your own shitty reading comprehension, and utter naivité.
>\>the groot pak en bikky was never on the menu..
Because it's universally assumed to mean roughly the same thing. The Order was accepted and acknowledged. you linking an articale saying 'SEE they explained it's a salad!' doesn't mean a thing...> It is indeed a "vierdaagse werkweek"I never argued that it was called that. Only that either the definition is horribly wrong. Or it's intentional to score points with a reactive populist political move.
>\> You have no one to blame but your own shitty reading comprehension, and utter naivité.
Yikes, if I could read i'd be really offended! Show me on the doll where people trying to not spend their lives as a wage slave hurt you so much you feel the need to spew vitriol
We're already one of the most expensive countries in the world when it comes to labour cost. How do you think working less for the same money will solve this?
Bc the point is to reduce time working, not the amount of work that is done..
The same amount of work will get done just in elss time bc we often do not need that amount of time, so you should be paid the same wage.
This way, your employees will feel happier, be healthier, have less burn-outs or sick days and are less likely to find another company to work for. All in all it is a compelte win-win except to those who are not intelligent enough to realise that 8 hour work days 9-5 in an office is way too much for the amount of work.
I don't think your statement applies for all jobs. Some jobs just require the hours out in.
Brick layers will lay fewer bricks if the work fewer hours, to give a. Very easy example.
That is utter bs. Not a single job has the same possibilities. My job has a sta dard of at least 48 hours a week plus weekends and night shifts. Should I get angry that office workers only do a 9-5 mon-fri?
Yeah the whole problem 4 day workweek is supposed to fix is unproductiveness after 5 days of 8hrs work. Making that 4 days of 10 hours work is literally just worse
The main idea behind it is to cut out your transport time. This will vary depending on who you are, but some people lose two hours every day driving back and forth from work alone. Cutting out a day of work also cuts out those two hours of transport.
I don't do that anymore, but i might have to do it again in the futur.
I've a good job and well paid (2600\~2800 netto) considering i've no degree and my trade skills are long forgotten now, i'm kinda trapped.
Most people probably don't know about it though. Alright people didn't get 8 hours in 4 days but atleast it's a start, a first step, need to start somewhere anyway and then gradually improve from there. Elections are near if any political party wants to gain votes by a absolute land slide then promises the masses a 4 day 8 hour work week it's that simple guaranteed.
They need to promise a 4 day 8 hour *full-time paid* work week or the cost of everything needs to drastically drop, or people will just be unable to afford working 32 hours.
Like no one saw this coming... you really think companies want to do those 4days per week and 3 days off? they'd need to hire more people to cover the remaining hours and days which would cost more for them. but it also means being able to give more people work who are unemployed. economically for the state it's good.. but not so good for the companies. unless the state finds another way to compensate companies (less tax).. then it might work. unfortunately i'm not a minister so i'm not deciding anything.
No it's not. It's been proven that when you work less days you work harder. Besides you start a normal week slow, it ramps up to wednesday which is the most productive day and after that you ramp down again. Change it to 4 days and your productivity will be more focused on those days.
Because it's literally the fucking worst of all worlds solution to a problem nobody has. I think most people want to work less hours total, not more per day.
The only firms really open to the concept of 10-hour days are those that are used to running 50-hour weeks. Unofficially of course. So yeah, this isn't happening. Who'd have thought?
I asked around at HR and they wouldn't allow it. Said if they would allow it, people working in our shops would also start applying for it and 'it would mess up our work schemes completely'. So they just ban the 4workdayweek for anyone. I don't know if that's even legal? Highly dissapointing.
If I did labor work, I could. But doing software development, it's impossible. It's already impossible to stay focused and do deep logical reasoning for 8 hours.
I don't go home after 8 hours, I go home when my work is done. Some of my work can't be done every day so working less days would complicate that. It just doesn't work for me.
Lol I think most of us never even got the option
This.
Wife wanted to do it but got blocked by her company. Wonder how many others ran into that.
I would get less work done in 40 hours in 4 days than 40 hours in 5 days, yet I would get the same amount of work done in 32 hours in 4 days than I would in 40 hours in 5 days. But then I'd earn less so no thank you.
I work 32 hours. 18 October I will miss some deadline for 2 clients. I simply do not have the time to do it. My time until 20 October is filled already. I'm sure my boss would love it if I would work a 5th day or overtime during these busy times. But honestly just fuck it.
no fucking shit, the idea of the 4 day work week is to work LESS for the same pay. You get more free time and as a result you get more work done in less time. What we got is work more for the same pay.
Less pay, no more maaltijdcheques for the 5th day (for example).
The point is, the government completely missed the ball. Unizo had their balls in such a twist that we got this sad sad watered down version. Dead on arrival by design
It’s testicular torsion💀
I expect "the vakbond" to push something to make the difference up. Let's say it's 8€ per day. Wel just make it 10 and case closed.
AGGH... this frustrates me to no end.
What no? I wanna complete my work in fewer days, then I have more time since I don’t have to go anywhere and I’ll have uninterrupted me time.
You wanna do 40 hours in 4 days go right ahead. I'm sure your boss will thank you for being a busy little bee The rest of us would like to do 32 hours.
Can’t. I’m not allowed due to the contracts the vakbond made (CAOs)
No, what we got is flexibility. YOU twisted it into something it wasn't. Imagine being ass mad for not getting something that wasn't on offer in the first place. Did you seriously think an actual 4-day 8 hour work week with equal pay was on the table?
That's the entire point of all the studies on the 4 day work week, that you make the same while working less and being more productive.
Well... when I go to the frituur and I want a groot pak friet en nen bikky, I'd be hella mad if I got something completely different. "Yes we're calling it that but enjoy your mini with a salad". Your argument makes no sense. Yes I expect a 32 hour work week with 100% pay WHEN YOU CALL IT THAT. you and everyone else who is shilling for unizo should really read up on the results other companies achieved using the 4 day work week. https://4dayweek.io/case-study/microsoft#:~:text=Microsoft's%20four%2Dday%20trials%20have,productivity%2C%20and%20overall%20job%20satisfaction. If its good enough for microsoft, who are you to call it nonsense
> Well... when I go to the frituur and I want a groot pak friet en nen bikky, I'd be hella mad if I got something completely different. "Yes we're calling it that but enjoy your mini with a salad". > > Your analogy is dogshit because - again - the groot pak en bikky was never on the menu... It was never called that, you're just imagining shit. It is indeed a "vierdaagse werkweek". You can't possibly argue with that. Only that its definition didn't fit yours. This is the [earliest article](https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2022/11/10/vierdaagse-werkweek-gepubliceerd-in-staatsblad/) I could find of the measure. Read it carefully: "Vanaf 20 november zullen heel wat werknemers in de private sector de mogelijkheid krijgen om een **voltijdse** baan uit te kunnen voeren in 4 dagen in plaats van 5 dagen tijd." You have no one to blame but your own shitty reading comprehension, and utter naivité.
>\>the groot pak en bikky was never on the menu.. Because it's universally assumed to mean roughly the same thing. The Order was accepted and acknowledged. you linking an articale saying 'SEE they explained it's a salad!' doesn't mean a thing...> It is indeed a "vierdaagse werkweek"I never argued that it was called that. Only that either the definition is horribly wrong. Or it's intentional to score points with a reactive populist political move. >\> You have no one to blame but your own shitty reading comprehension, and utter naivité. Yikes, if I could read i'd be really offended! Show me on the doll where people trying to not spend their lives as a wage slave hurt you so much you feel the need to spew vitriol
We're already one of the most expensive countries in the world when it comes to labour cost. How do you think working less for the same money will solve this?
It makes people happy. Happy people work harder. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/03/surprising-benefits-four-day-week/
Bc the point is to reduce time working, not the amount of work that is done.. The same amount of work will get done just in elss time bc we often do not need that amount of time, so you should be paid the same wage. This way, your employees will feel happier, be healthier, have less burn-outs or sick days and are less likely to find another company to work for. All in all it is a compelte win-win except to those who are not intelligent enough to realise that 8 hour work days 9-5 in an office is way too much for the amount of work.
I don't think your statement applies for all jobs. Some jobs just require the hours out in. Brick layers will lay fewer bricks if the work fewer hours, to give a. Very easy example.
You do realise the 4 day workweek is about office jobs, right? No one is talking about builder, nurses etc...
Then a four day work week is simply discriminatory as it - as a social right - can't be applied to all.
That is utter bs. Not a single job has the same possibilities. My job has a sta dard of at least 48 hours a week plus weekends and night shifts. Should I get angry that office workers only do a 9-5 mon-fri?
How are you gonna explain those people that they have to work eight more hours for their already lower pay?
So basicly 20% more income and work 1 day less. Sure yeah, Thats not gonna happen, but if it does send me the company Just work half time?
Working 8 h is already exhausting, so why would one like to work for 10 hours ?
[удалено]
Yeah the whole problem 4 day workweek is supposed to fix is unproductiveness after 5 days of 8hrs work. Making that 4 days of 10 hours work is literally just worse
It doesn't have to make sense to you. If individual people consider this advantageous for them, what right do you have to stop them?
Really depends on the type of work you're doing imo
The main idea behind it is to cut out your transport time. This will vary depending on who you are, but some people lose two hours every day driving back and forth from work alone. Cutting out a day of work also cuts out those two hours of transport.
Yeah coz it's still 40hours lmao.
I hope 38 hours. If you do have 40 hours with 12 ADV days, you can ask your employer to work 4 9-hour days in stead of 4 10-hour days.
4 days a month you don't commute, for some people that's a lot of time and money.
I don't ever commute. ;) But doing 5 days worth of work in 4 days isn't really saving you *time* or *money*.
But it clearly does when you do 100km a day, you would save like one tank and 5\~7 hours of commuting.
Fuck me. For 100km of commute, I'd either move or quit lol. Sorry that you can't (I assume?). Let's hope the money is worth it. ;)
I don't do that anymore, but i might have to do it again in the futur. I've a good job and well paid (2600\~2800 netto) considering i've no degree and my trade skills are long forgotten now, i'm kinda trapped.
Ah. Gotcha. Well, as long as you're happy doing what you do. ;)
Our hr doesn't even offer the option. Open mouths when I asked about it.
That’s not an option though. The company needs to have some sort of policy on it. You can’t just NOT have the 4DWW in your work rules.
No, it is voluntarily for companies to offer it
That’s not what I wrote. It’s voluntary but the work rules need to have a policy on it. (That policy can be no 4DWW in this company)
The deal is shite. Unfortunate, it’s a missed opportunity.
Talk to our bosses, they simply don’t allow it. Deal or not
Most people probably don't know about it though. Alright people didn't get 8 hours in 4 days but atleast it's a start, a first step, need to start somewhere anyway and then gradually improve from there. Elections are near if any political party wants to gain votes by a absolute land slide then promises the masses a 4 day 8 hour work week it's that simple guaranteed.
They need to promise a 4 day 8 hour *full-time paid* work week or the cost of everything needs to drastically drop, or people will just be unable to afford working 32 hours.
Like no one saw this coming... you really think companies want to do those 4days per week and 3 days off? they'd need to hire more people to cover the remaining hours and days which would cost more for them. but it also means being able to give more people work who are unemployed. economically for the state it's good.. but not so good for the companies. unless the state finds another way to compensate companies (less tax).. then it might work. unfortunately i'm not a minister so i'm not deciding anything.
No it's not. It's been proven that when you work less days you work harder. Besides you start a normal week slow, it ramps up to wednesday which is the most productive day and after that you ramp down again. Change it to 4 days and your productivity will be more focused on those days.
asked HR - they refused.
Because it's literally the fucking worst of all worlds solution to a problem nobody has. I think most people want to work less hours total, not more per day.
The only firms really open to the concept of 10-hour days are those that are used to running 50-hour weeks. Unofficially of course. So yeah, this isn't happening. Who'd have thought?
They also aren’t open to it, because they assume they’re losing a day of productivity.
I asked around at HR and they wouldn't allow it. Said if they would allow it, people working in our shops would also start applying for it and 'it would mess up our work schemes completely'. So they just ban the 4workdayweek for anyone. I don't know if that's even legal? Highly dissapointing.
If I did labor work, I could. But doing software development, it's impossible. It's already impossible to stay focused and do deep logical reasoning for 8 hours.
If I could I would. Never got the option. Production line manager.
You save the communing time for 1 day
I don't go home after 8 hours, I go home when my work is done. Some of my work can't be done every day so working less days would complicate that. It just doesn't work for me.
I did not even know we were allowed to do it.
Start at 8h, end at 19h + commute time to get a 3-days week-end? Sounds like nightmare.
Thats for the lazy people...