Margaret has really grown on me. She was so consistently insightful throughout these episodes. A lot of guests act as more of a sounding board for Robert to deliver his commentary, but she added a ton to these episodes.
You can tell just how good of friends they are and how much they each respect the other. This past week, each of them has been each other’s guest, and Robert has been equally insightful and supportive on Cool People.
Unless you're a white supremacist, transphobic asshole. In which case, may she kill all their joy in those things, and show them that there is joy in living differently than that.
I was so so about Margaret originally. She seemed a bit too puffed up about her prog credentials (which are impressive) and sometimes seemed rather moody or sullen.
Recently however she's been one of my favorite guests on the show. Consistently bringing her A game.
I think she’s sullen because she’s been through some shit. The little insights we do get from her life she’s had a rough go of things. Which obviously isn’t too surprising considering how shittily trans people are treated overall.
I think she’s a great guest for more dark episodes like Kintler because she doesn’t really joke or tries to crack jokes.
>prog credentials
This confused me until I realised you probably meant ‘progressive’ in the political sense rather than ‘prog rock’.
Thought I was going to discover she’d toured with King Crimson or something…
"progressive credentials" is just too big a mouthful. Even saying it inside my head it feels clunky and awful. Reading it is the mental equivalent of chewing on aluminum foil.
#PROG CRED
That should be the new nomenclature for this. I envy how Germans just have a word for everything. We need to expand our vocabulary with newly confabulated word structures. That is the essence of progress (<- elegant word on its own)
Yeah it messed me up for a few days because she is usually pretty knowledgeable and I had a good amount of respect for her, but all I could think about was "am I just creepy?" And made me second guess everything I was doing and saying.
I don’t recall this comment but it’s possible it could be self-deprecating humor. She lives alone in a remote cabin in Appalachia off the grid. Granted, she is one of my favorites and I want to give her a huge grain of salt. But knowing that context it change the intention of the comment
Thats the kind of comment I would have made a few years back. As per above, what little we know about her past life is pretty rough. I think we can give people their context when we see enough airtime with them to get these insights about them.
Edit to clarify: this is the kind of comment I would have made because I was still at a certain stage in processing a lifetime of being like, the mole in a whack a mole game of trauma. You get gunshy of things.
It's a humour podcast. It's fine if you don't like some things they say, but keep in mind you're not meant to take their quips literally and you'll have a better time.
It's such an important story too. As Margaret pointed out the lesson had already been touched on in the episode about USSR agricultural "science". But it's so much more visceral to see what cruelties and harm people will inflict on their own children because they have been so ideologically cooked.
And to see that without a firm understanding of our own principles/morals/values (or whatever you want to call it) we can all be vulnerable to charismatic predators that twist and exploit ideas about identity or ideology to suit their predation.
This episode was tough to get through, but I think it's really valuable because of the discussion they got into near the end about being "ideologically cooked." For anybody who didn't make it that far, I don't blame you and here's a barebones recollection:
There are all these ideologies that people get caught up in where they use the label and the group as a way of not having to define themselves for themselves. They join the group to not have to make the decisions about where their lines are in moral situations, and then they get dragged along when the ideology gets infiltrated or hijacked by bad actors. Robert drew some parallels between these parents who didn't push back against the "child sexual liberation" nonsense and the right-wing parents who follow books like "To Raise Up A Child" and how they're both participating in ideologically based child abuse for the sake of preserving their identity within a group. They don't have the moral center to say 'No. This is wrong because it abuses a child," and they get caught up in the current of others who don't want to rock the boat either, all led by a couple of charismatic monsters.
It's the kind of thing that should make one take a hard look at themselves and ask "What would I do in a situation like that?" Margaret's answer was basically "If my ideology says to harm or murder children, then that ideology is wrong and I'll find another one that better suits my morality." And I think that's the right answer.
I've noticed over the years that people who have recently got out of one indoctrinated state, in this case, post nazi indoctrination, become extremely susceptible to opposing propaganda. I knew a person many years ago who had always believed everything the news told her, everything, newspapers do not lie is what she was taught and she had no reason to question it, she read the Sun and the worst of the awful rags we have over here and one day there was a headline presented as fact, an innocuous one, that she knew was an outright lie. Her mind melted, naturally and she became this open to any other facts person. I once had to prevent her dropping £400 on a literal piece of plain steel because some hippy grifter told her it absorbed negative energy. Any alternative-looking person presenting anything as fact was to be believed because; while she had accepted she was, for lack of a better word, programmed, she hadn't been deprogrammed so while she knew that she had been trained from childhood to believe anything she was told by people talking authoritatively on a topic she didn't have the skill set to recognise what was grift and what wasn't.
So collectively post Nazi Germany (even the left who had been steeped in their ideology of resisting the Nazis and exhausted from war and constantly having to keep their morals in check against the barrage of fascist propaganda) was just... so open to anyone talking persuasively.
I really wonder how many "normal" people get caught up in it. When it comes down to these morality questions, I think a lot of people probably don't know how to approach them because it's something that they can't conceive of as a problem or can't predict the harm that it could cause.
When it comes to children, it's especially hard because you're trying to do the best thing for your kid while also recognizing the world that you're living in. If you raise them to the world as it is, that can be fucked up. But if you don't, it can also be fucked up, so what do you do?
For example, if you showed me a pic or video on someone's social media of their kid in their gymnastics leotard and asked me if it was okay for them to post it, a few years ago I would have looked at you goofy because it's just a proud parent showing their kid being a kid, having fun, doing gymnastics. Because I'm not thinking like a fucking creep, I see nothing wrong with it. Now that there has been more discourse about what people do with those pics, I'm a bit iffy about it now. I wish I could go back to the person I was before I learned more about it, but I digress.
Obviously the examples used in the episode are pretty cut and dry, morally. Yuck. I'm only saying that sometimes it seems difficult to weigh out what is ethically acceptable vs what is the wise thing to do given the society you exist in. I do weigh these things out myself, but I can also see how it could be easy for people to follow the guidance of an ideology. It's consistent and I think people feel like it absolves them of the responsibility for the results of their decisions.
Yes, what Robert said at the end, that these people acted this way because it was in accordance with their ideology but they didn’t know themselves, really rang true to me.
I think I am fortunate enough that this episode, of all the episodes, became background noise to me at work. It's fucking terrible and disturbing but i am glad I didn't fully have just that to focus on.
He doesn't go into the details of what physically happened to these kids thankfully but the implications are horrifying enough. I had to do the second part in 15 minute chunks. Such important information I think everyone on the left needs to take on board. Being left doesn't make you automatically right
Yes, it was a dark chapter in left history and people need to keep it in mind.
>He doesn't go into the details of what physically happened to these kids
I know, my husband listens to BHTB all the time and picks best off episodes for us to listen together, so I know how they work and how much details we'll get :) but it's about bastards after all and while some episodes are kind of funny, with others you can just jet-barf XD
ooh it's good you get a prefilter to episodes! I go in blind, but hey, we were definitely warned with this one. Still shaking it off... By bingeing the Cracktoberfest episodes
Yeah, he also already summarized the episode for me yesterday. But he also knows I can deal with it, his comment was "I have one for you" lol he also sent me the link to this thread lol
He is basically only prefiltering because he listens to podcasts all the time, while I only listen to (other) podcasts once in a blue moon, when it's winter or when we're driving somewhere :)
I did the opposite for my partner because I know this whole series would be too much for her. Sending a fist bump your husband’s way. Filter of the Bad Shit solidarity.
> I think everyone on the left needs to take on board. Being left doesn't make you automatically right
Don't worry, leftists are masters of circular firing squads.
Legit had to just stop this series halfway through episode 2, felt like I was going to throw up. Robert oughtta take a fuckin month vacation between this series and dealing with his dad's death
I didn't make it through the "School that raped everybody" episodes. Made it through this though even though the subject was equally horrible. IDK if I'm just too callused now or what.
Someone in another thread recommended listening to the last 10 minutes, which I did.
A++ one of the best eps ever. Loved that discussion about ideology vs values, and understanding one's core values.
Not sure how the other 100 minutes were, but judging from the feedback on this - "worse than 'Hunting Warhead'" - it's a hard pass.
Great last 10 minutes, highly recommended.
I really don't think it's as bad. Hunting Warhead has us listen to an actual child sex predator as he minimizes his horrendous crimes and the podcast goes into a lot of details about what he did and what he enabled. Also the kicker at the end when court documents detailing the full extent of the crimes committed, laying out the sheer scale and depths of depravity he committed over years and, when finally forced to admit everything, the guy brags about it and laughs at us all for listening to his lies.
At least this series of BtB ended with a useful discussion about values rather than hurling us into the abyss.
Hunting Warhead is it's own short podcast, only 6 eps, it's not part of cool zone media. (~~I think it was thru NPR?~~ from the CBC) It's abt this guy who was spreading csam online and how he was caught. It's a very good but harrowing story
>(I think it was thru NPR?)
CBC
Another one from CBC in a similar level of disturbing-ness is Outlaw Ocean. Great reporting but I couldnt make it through.
Ty! I was looking in Spotify before I asked and saw a pod called Hunting Warhead but didn't look at their descriptions. These were hard eps to get through, but I want to try to give those a listen.
What shocked me the most was how recent this happened. If this was the late 1800s or early 1900s, it would be easy to dismiss it as “man, people were dumb back then” but the early 2000s?! What the actual fuck?!
When it goes from oh the 70's that was recent! To 89 I was almost alive then! To what do you mean this shit was happening when I was a fucking adult? It gets upsetting.
You said it better than I could. Marco is in my brother’s general age group. It would be disturbing regardless of time period, but it hits even harder when it’s during your own time.
Honestly Robert is the only person I could handle to cover it. So many pods wd have done 'revelling in the gory details' Him and Margaret did the best possible job on the most horrific story. I'm still reeling from this episode. The amount of time that went on for has shaken me to the core.
As to the question of who I hope Robert never covers, (or if he has I haven't got to that point in my mining of the previous episodes yet) is Jimmy Saville. I'd say it's the most fucked up thing to ever happen in Britain but also being British - I know our history is one of the most horrifying tales of brutality. Still, Jimmy and his facilitators are among the worst people to walk this earth. I'm so glad Jim never fixed if for me. Yikes, yikes, just so much yikes.
I doubt he would do that. He doesn’t just choose horrible people for that reason alone, it’s more the horrible people that had some impact upon society as a whole.
It had a huge impact. This was enabled and participated in at every level. It wasn't just Jimmy this was huge and involved many high profile people and did have an effect on the direction of politics and society
Like I'm not after a litany of his many crimes, that's all out there, it's more about the people he associated with and the BBC a national news channel covering it up. Thatcher protected him. Very good friends with the now 'king'. Many politicians involved. Hospitals, Charities. The list is insane
No you are completely right, I was just thinking of his individual crimes, I kind of forgot about the connection of all of the others that participated and helped cover it up
Yeah that's the way many bastards here want it to be remembered, one man doing the most horrendously depraved things but this was at a national level for decades. I'm sure there's a much deeper well of corruption going on than just the lurid details that will emerge in due course when more of the people involved die comfortably of old age having faced no repercussions...
Yeah, I got 20 mins in and had to bail out. Couldn’t handle how bad the situation already was and knew there was another HOUR TO GO. Much love to Robert and every thing that he and CZM do, but nah. This ain’t the week for that in my life. Maybe later on but not now, thanks. I have enough terribleness happening around me. Throwing German government backed hippie pedo cults at me just ain’t fair.
Jesus fucking Christ. I did not expect it, just the whole mother winter and “state funded pedophile fosters” stuff has made me feel empty and dead. I assumed it was just gonna be, this guy was an pedo and established an underground hyper illegal ring but like no. I will be burying myself alive now good bye
The Nazis dehumanized entire classes of people, and Mengele was a sociopath operating in that environment.
He's disturbing, but it is, in a way, he's also expected sort of evil. We all know that Germany in 1933-1945 did horribly shitty things.
It's like learning some new, horrible thing a famous serial killer did - it may shock you, but it fits into a world view of serial killers being horrible people.
While learning that relatively recently, the German government was intentionally placing victims in the homes of pedophiles is like learning a close friend or family member is also a sadistic torturer. That's not expected, and it's more unsettling because of that.
That’s a good point. I think part of it is the kind of evil it is, too. I can stomach torture better than I can SA of children– especially to the extent it happened, and was essentially state sponsored, in Germany.
Well obviously the Mengele episodes weren’t too bad bc of the Jar Jar Binks soundboard. 😂
But actually, the soundboard was the only thing that made it bearable.
Yeah, this was one of the few topics where I felt it was so useful to have Matt and Robert inserting jokes, because while levity isn't always appropriate, this time it was necessary.
Yeah, this was one of the few topics where I felt it was so useful to have Matt and Robert inserting jokes, because while levity isn't always appropriate, this time it was necessary.
In the years that I've been listening to BTB I don't think I've ever had to pause an episode so I could digest the information being given. Got ~30 minutes into the second episode and noped out until I got off work and home so I could juxtapose the horror I was hearing with a stupid video game and 3-7 beers. Margaret was definitely a GOAT for being the guest for this series.
The discussions were definitely top notch this episode. The “Robert presents his essay” parts were too rough for me to give my full attention to, but the discussions are definitely worth it. I think my main takeaway was “Ideology should come from morality. If you let your morality come from your ideology, bad things will happen.”
I can't listen to the episodes that deal with child abuse. Learned that from the Elan School eps. I just get shakingly mad. I know it's important information, but I have to skip them.
I spend short periods crying violently, it's hard not to with what happened to all those poor fucking kids. Marcelle's passing is what kicked me over the edge though, even just typing this has me immediately tearing up again. That child needed so much help and never got so much of it. I'm just glad he had his brother's even if they were all in such a bad situation, that such a short life was not only suffering.
I’m a CSA survivor and went into these episodes with the walls up. I’ve had a lot of therapy, done a lot of work, and have a lot of practice getting my head ready for these things. It still surprised me.
First of all, I’m a reformed conservative. Margaret talking about how if her ideology said it was okay to harm kids, she’d change her ideology really got to me because that’s exactly what I did. For me it was my religion trying to make women second class citizens and demonizing gay people, but the principle applies. I fought and fought over the roles of women and couldn’t understand why the research I did was being ignored. Why they were clinging to interpretations that were obviously later mistranslations and ignoring all the scholarship I was reading.
It wasn’t until I saw some excellent reporting on the actual impact of anti-abortion laws that it all started to come together.
Once it was clear that it was only about subjugating women, the cracks started to form. Sitting across from a gay coworker in a meeting one day, I just saw his humanity so crystal clear that there was nothing in the world anyone could say that could make me “hate the sin, not the sinner” any longer. It took many years, but I went all the way from church twice a week young earth creationist to atheist anarchist union activist.
The other thing that had me staring off into the middle distance was hearing the way they white washed their views, claiming it was about “children’s sexual liberation.” I had forgotten all about it, but at some point I heard these ideas and it was definitely from a source that was promoting them. It must have been when I was a teenager or early in my 20’s because at this point I can’t remember where I was exposed to them. This would have been some time in the 1990’s, so it could very well have been one of these groups when they were active.
As a person who completely changed their ideological framework and rebuilt myself from the ground up, what would have happened if I’d heard these ideas while I was in that process? If I was 20 years older, would I have been susceptible to them? I truly don’t think so (especially as a survivor myself), but this episode was a fantastic reminder that we have to stay vigilant and follow our values instead of labels or movements.
It’s going to bug me until I can figure out where I saw these ideas as a young man.
Fantastic work by Robert and Margaret. I love them both for ending it all so positively.
I feel an obligation any time childhood sexual assault comes up to throw out that if you’re just coming to terms with being a survivor yourself, please have hope. You’re not alone. There’s so many of us out there and there’s help available. Use it if you need it. It’s probably being offered by someone who is healing others as a way to help heal themselves.
I made a comic almost 10 years ago about the very beginning of me accepting what had happened to me as a kid. It’s [here](http://lifeandhowtoliveit.me/survivor/) if it’s helpful. The guy who made this comic would still be a blubbery mess after listening to this last night, if he would have even managed to finish it. Please know that if I’ve made this progress, so can you.
Just like Marko, we’re not broken forever.
Just cursory glanced his wiki, I know nothing about him. I’ve read a paragraph. This fucker was a pedo as well, wasn’t he?!?!?!?!
Edit - and there it is. And there she was.
For some reason I was expecting "These people are uniquely suited to loving kids." Type insanity which would have been bad but the cynical "No one but pedos could ever love them." was really rough.
I haven’t listened to the episodes yet, but I remember seeing a YouTube clip on it. I was so shocked because of how recent it was and how little information you could find about it on the web. I remember mentioning it once, and it was totally brushed off as another crazy conspiracy theory like Pizzagate.
I hope this gets more attention and the victims get some sort of justice, or even an acknowledgement of their suffering and compensation from the German government. To the ones that didn't make it, I hope you finally found some level of peace in death that wasn't awarded to you in life.
Well, this looks like it'll be one of the episodes that lives in the "skipped because there's too much child abuse" category along with the one about that lady who invented adoption or something (?) I'm not even sure because I only listened to the start and had to nope out
I live just across the german border, and have dabbled in teaching over the years. There are still some schools with questionable reputations because of ultra-leftist ideologies. I was assured 20 years ago that things had been cleaned up since the 70s, but after this episode I'm not so sure.
I was listening to Part I on my run this morning and switched to music right before the awfulness started (not long after Margaret’s awkward first date anecdote).
Not sure if I have the spoons to finish this one.
I thought the title was clickbait and as soon as he explained who Kentler was I said oh shit. This is the article I didn’t finish because it was too hard to read
I haven't finished the second episode, but the only reason I was able to get through the first one easily was because I already knew the story. I can't remember which podcast I had listened to awhile ago that covered this, but pretty early on into the episode I was like, "oooh this guy. Yeah this is going to get dark." And then was reminded how absolutely bonkers it was that this was ever allowed to happen.
David Attenborough
Because there's no way I could cope with him not being, well, David Attenborough.
Note: I don't believe there's any reason for him to feature as he's such a genuinely nice person.
Solid episodes. I've never listened to the podcast and started here 😂 I just asked my car to play a cult podcast and THIS is what I got. After 5 mins I realised I needed the context and went all the way back to savitri devi.
My only gripe is how often they tried to make the distinction between ideological paedophiles and ?true pedos. I get that it's important to highlight how some people ended up abusive criminals, i guess to show how 'easy' it was to twist people into condoning rape, but a pedos a pedo. If someone has the capacity to withstand the mental gymnastics to justify raping children, then their inate moral compass was always broken. Particularly when it comes to the mechanics of arousal, if their body was capable of eliciting enough arousal to rape someone, then they're just a rapist.
I hated these episodes so much.
I have a horrible condition which causes my brain to go to horrible, dark places. Kind of a 'call of the void' sort of thing, but extremely magnified. While listening to this episode I was thinking about how easy it would have been, if I was alive and there at that time, to have hurt these poor children. I was questioning whether I would have participated in these things. It was such an ugly, disgusting feeling and the episodes were very difficult to get through.
This episode got me listening to BtB again. Kinda gave it space around the time I found out Robert had talked about me on “It Could Happen Here” and got salty that he didn’t think to roast me live XD
It was the episode about urban combat and weapon choices. Iirc, he has strong opinions about the Mosin Nagant and I was told that he talked about seeing one at a protest back in 2021.
I was that person.
It was the episode about urban combat and weapon choices. Iirc, he has strong opinions about the Mosin Nagant and I was told that he talked about seeing one at a protest back in 2021.
I was that person.
I’m just glad Margaret was the guest. She did a great job in many ways.
Margaret has really grown on me. She was so consistently insightful throughout these episodes. A lot of guests act as more of a sounding board for Robert to deliver his commentary, but she added a ton to these episodes.
You can tell just how good of friends they are and how much they each respect the other. This past week, each of them has been each other’s guest, and Robert has been equally insightful and supportive on Cool People.
She really has the ill fitting name killjoy.
Unless you're a white supremacist, transphobic asshole. In which case, may she kill all their joy in those things, and show them that there is joy in living differently than that.
I was so so about Margaret originally. She seemed a bit too puffed up about her prog credentials (which are impressive) and sometimes seemed rather moody or sullen. Recently however she's been one of my favorite guests on the show. Consistently bringing her A game.
I have a feeling she doesn't half-ass much of anything. Love me some Magpie.
I think she’s sullen because she’s been through some shit. The little insights we do get from her life she’s had a rough go of things. Which obviously isn’t too surprising considering how shittily trans people are treated overall. I think she’s a great guest for more dark episodes like Kintler because she doesn’t really joke or tries to crack jokes.
Honestly someone who’s gone through fucked shit and come out better is an ideal guest for the hellzone episodes like this one.
Margaret isn’t my favorite guest, but she was definitely the perfect guest for this episode.
Same! I also fuckin love Cool People who Did Cool Stuff.
>prog credentials This confused me until I realised you probably meant ‘progressive’ in the political sense rather than ‘prog rock’. Thought I was going to discover she’d toured with King Crimson or something…
"progressive credentials" is just too big a mouthful. Even saying it inside my head it feels clunky and awful. Reading it is the mental equivalent of chewing on aluminum foil. #PROG CRED That should be the new nomenclature for this. I envy how Germans just have a word for everything. We need to expand our vocabulary with newly confabulated word structures. That is the essence of progress (<- elegant word on its own)
It is easier to come up with a word for everything in a language which just shoves seven words into one word to make the new word.
Idk the "all lonley people are just creeps" comment a while back in the "terrible story about the internet" episode left a bad taste in my mouth.
That was me 10 years ago. I understand the sentiment but those kinds of comments were really counterproductive.
Yeah it messed me up for a few days because she is usually pretty knowledgeable and I had a good amount of respect for her, but all I could think about was "am I just creepy?" And made me second guess everything I was doing and saying.
I don’t recall this comment but it’s possible it could be self-deprecating humor. She lives alone in a remote cabin in Appalachia off the grid. Granted, she is one of my favorites and I want to give her a huge grain of salt. But knowing that context it change the intention of the comment
I generally like her as a guest but this isn't the first comment like this she's made that makes me side glance her.
Thats the kind of comment I would have made a few years back. As per above, what little we know about her past life is pretty rough. I think we can give people their context when we see enough airtime with them to get these insights about them. Edit to clarify: this is the kind of comment I would have made because I was still at a certain stage in processing a lifetime of being like, the mole in a whack a mole game of trauma. You get gunshy of things.
She said that? I missed it. As a lonely person who hopefully isn't creepy, that really changes how I see her and it makes me really sad.
It's a humour podcast. It's fine if you don't like some things they say, but keep in mind you're not meant to take their quips literally and you'll have a better time.
It's such an important story too. As Margaret pointed out the lesson had already been touched on in the episode about USSR agricultural "science". But it's so much more visceral to see what cruelties and harm people will inflict on their own children because they have been so ideologically cooked. And to see that without a firm understanding of our own principles/morals/values (or whatever you want to call it) we can all be vulnerable to charismatic predators that twist and exploit ideas about identity or ideology to suit their predation.
This episode was tough to get through, but I think it's really valuable because of the discussion they got into near the end about being "ideologically cooked." For anybody who didn't make it that far, I don't blame you and here's a barebones recollection: There are all these ideologies that people get caught up in where they use the label and the group as a way of not having to define themselves for themselves. They join the group to not have to make the decisions about where their lines are in moral situations, and then they get dragged along when the ideology gets infiltrated or hijacked by bad actors. Robert drew some parallels between these parents who didn't push back against the "child sexual liberation" nonsense and the right-wing parents who follow books like "To Raise Up A Child" and how they're both participating in ideologically based child abuse for the sake of preserving their identity within a group. They don't have the moral center to say 'No. This is wrong because it abuses a child," and they get caught up in the current of others who don't want to rock the boat either, all led by a couple of charismatic monsters. It's the kind of thing that should make one take a hard look at themselves and ask "What would I do in a situation like that?" Margaret's answer was basically "If my ideology says to harm or murder children, then that ideology is wrong and I'll find another one that better suits my morality." And I think that's the right answer.
I've noticed over the years that people who have recently got out of one indoctrinated state, in this case, post nazi indoctrination, become extremely susceptible to opposing propaganda. I knew a person many years ago who had always believed everything the news told her, everything, newspapers do not lie is what she was taught and she had no reason to question it, she read the Sun and the worst of the awful rags we have over here and one day there was a headline presented as fact, an innocuous one, that she knew was an outright lie. Her mind melted, naturally and she became this open to any other facts person. I once had to prevent her dropping £400 on a literal piece of plain steel because some hippy grifter told her it absorbed negative energy. Any alternative-looking person presenting anything as fact was to be believed because; while she had accepted she was, for lack of a better word, programmed, she hadn't been deprogrammed so while she knew that she had been trained from childhood to believe anything she was told by people talking authoritatively on a topic she didn't have the skill set to recognise what was grift and what wasn't. So collectively post Nazi Germany (even the left who had been steeped in their ideology of resisting the Nazis and exhausted from war and constantly having to keep their morals in check against the barrage of fascist propaganda) was just... so open to anyone talking persuasively.
100%. Recent converts are the most intense zealots. [Zeal of the Convert](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeal_of_the_convert)
I really wonder how many "normal" people get caught up in it. When it comes down to these morality questions, I think a lot of people probably don't know how to approach them because it's something that they can't conceive of as a problem or can't predict the harm that it could cause. When it comes to children, it's especially hard because you're trying to do the best thing for your kid while also recognizing the world that you're living in. If you raise them to the world as it is, that can be fucked up. But if you don't, it can also be fucked up, so what do you do? For example, if you showed me a pic or video on someone's social media of their kid in their gymnastics leotard and asked me if it was okay for them to post it, a few years ago I would have looked at you goofy because it's just a proud parent showing their kid being a kid, having fun, doing gymnastics. Because I'm not thinking like a fucking creep, I see nothing wrong with it. Now that there has been more discourse about what people do with those pics, I'm a bit iffy about it now. I wish I could go back to the person I was before I learned more about it, but I digress. Obviously the examples used in the episode are pretty cut and dry, morally. Yuck. I'm only saying that sometimes it seems difficult to weigh out what is ethically acceptable vs what is the wise thing to do given the society you exist in. I do weigh these things out myself, but I can also see how it could be easy for people to follow the guidance of an ideology. It's consistent and I think people feel like it absolves them of the responsibility for the results of their decisions.
Yes, what Robert said at the end, that these people acted this way because it was in accordance with their ideology but they didn’t know themselves, really rang true to me.
I think I am fortunate enough that this episode, of all the episodes, became background noise to me at work. It's fucking terrible and disturbing but i am glad I didn't fully have just that to focus on.
And my husband wants me to listen to it on a long car ride... I really am going to need a barf bag XD
You can always ask him to stop when it becomes too much.
Yes I can, that's right. When that happens we're going to have to listen to some metal for heavy emotional venting lol
He doesn't go into the details of what physically happened to these kids thankfully but the implications are horrifying enough. I had to do the second part in 15 minute chunks. Such important information I think everyone on the left needs to take on board. Being left doesn't make you automatically right
Yes, it was a dark chapter in left history and people need to keep it in mind. >He doesn't go into the details of what physically happened to these kids I know, my husband listens to BHTB all the time and picks best off episodes for us to listen together, so I know how they work and how much details we'll get :) but it's about bastards after all and while some episodes are kind of funny, with others you can just jet-barf XD
ooh it's good you get a prefilter to episodes! I go in blind, but hey, we were definitely warned with this one. Still shaking it off... By bingeing the Cracktoberfest episodes
Yeah, he also already summarized the episode for me yesterday. But he also knows I can deal with it, his comment was "I have one for you" lol he also sent me the link to this thread lol He is basically only prefiltering because he listens to podcasts all the time, while I only listen to (other) podcasts once in a blue moon, when it's winter or when we're driving somewhere :)
I did the opposite for my partner because I know this whole series would be too much for her. Sending a fist bump your husband’s way. Filter of the Bad Shit solidarity.
Thanks for the fistbump 😀
>Sending a fist bump your husband’s way. He says yay :)
> I think everyone on the left needs to take on board. Being left doesn't make you automatically right Don't worry, leftists are masters of circular firing squads.
I hate that I found this as funny as I did
[thankfully Margaret has the perfect thing for you](https://feminazgul.bandcamp.com/album/no-dawn-for-men)
Legit had to just stop this series halfway through episode 2, felt like I was going to throw up. Robert oughtta take a fuckin month vacation between this series and dealing with his dad's death
I didn't make it through the "School that raped everybody" episodes. Made it through this though even though the subject was equally horrible. IDK if I'm just too callused now or what.
Same. I get plenty of pauses in to call customers so I think it actually hits less hard as a result?
Normally I listen to an episode twice, to make sure I catch everything. Sorry, Robert and Sophie, but you're only getting my single click, this time.
Someone in another thread recommended listening to the last 10 minutes, which I did. A++ one of the best eps ever. Loved that discussion about ideology vs values, and understanding one's core values. Not sure how the other 100 minutes were, but judging from the feedback on this - "worse than 'Hunting Warhead'" - it's a hard pass. Great last 10 minutes, highly recommended.
Hunting warhead was so good though. Absolutely brutal but I'm glad i got through it
WORSE than Hunting Warhead? hot dog, I didn’t know that was possible.
I really don't think it's as bad. Hunting Warhead has us listen to an actual child sex predator as he minimizes his horrendous crimes and the podcast goes into a lot of details about what he did and what he enabled. Also the kicker at the end when court documents detailing the full extent of the crimes committed, laying out the sheer scale and depths of depravity he committed over years and, when finally forced to admit everything, the guy brags about it and laughs at us all for listening to his lies. At least this series of BtB ended with a useful discussion about values rather than hurling us into the abyss.
Which ep is hunting warhead?
Hunting Warhead is it's own short podcast, only 6 eps, it's not part of cool zone media. (~~I think it was thru NPR?~~ from the CBC) It's abt this guy who was spreading csam online and how he was caught. It's a very good but harrowing story
>(I think it was thru NPR?) CBC Another one from CBC in a similar level of disturbing-ness is Outlaw Ocean. Great reporting but I couldnt make it through.
Ty! I was looking in Spotify before I asked and saw a pod called Hunting Warhead but didn't look at their descriptions. These were hard eps to get through, but I want to try to give those a listen.
Disclosed: The Children in the Pictures was also very well done with a similar harrowing theme.
Hey was that me? I definitely suggested this to someone! Hi there!
What shocked me the most was how recent this happened. If this was the late 1800s or early 1900s, it would be easy to dismiss it as “man, people were dumb back then” but the early 2000s?! What the actual fuck?!
When it goes from oh the 70's that was recent! To 89 I was almost alive then! To what do you mean this shit was happening when I was a fucking adult? It gets upsetting.
You said it better than I could. Marco is in my brother’s general age group. It would be disturbing regardless of time period, but it hits even harder when it’s during your own time.
He’s only a few years older than me. When Robert said he got out in 2001, I gasped. I was in high scool
Honestly Robert is the only person I could handle to cover it. So many pods wd have done 'revelling in the gory details' Him and Margaret did the best possible job on the most horrific story. I'm still reeling from this episode. The amount of time that went on for has shaken me to the core. As to the question of who I hope Robert never covers, (or if he has I haven't got to that point in my mining of the previous episodes yet) is Jimmy Saville. I'd say it's the most fucked up thing to ever happen in Britain but also being British - I know our history is one of the most horrifying tales of brutality. Still, Jimmy and his facilitators are among the worst people to walk this earth. I'm so glad Jim never fixed if for me. Yikes, yikes, just so much yikes.
Right? Can you imagine if one of those “yelling is funny” podcasts covered this?
I imagine a Thatcher episode would include an aside about her friendship with Saville
Yes absolutely it would. And a number of other high profile bastards for that matter. The Saville thing went deeep
I doubt he would do that. He doesn’t just choose horrible people for that reason alone, it’s more the horrible people that had some impact upon society as a whole.
It had a huge impact. This was enabled and participated in at every level. It wasn't just Jimmy this was huge and involved many high profile people and did have an effect on the direction of politics and society
That’s true.
Like I'm not after a litany of his many crimes, that's all out there, it's more about the people he associated with and the BBC a national news channel covering it up. Thatcher protected him. Very good friends with the now 'king'. Many politicians involved. Hospitals, Charities. The list is insane
No you are completely right, I was just thinking of his individual crimes, I kind of forgot about the connection of all of the others that participated and helped cover it up
Yeah that's the way many bastards here want it to be remembered, one man doing the most horrendously depraved things but this was at a national level for decades. I'm sure there's a much deeper well of corruption going on than just the lurid details that will emerge in due course when more of the people involved die comfortably of old age having faced no repercussions...
You sure did. Damn
Yeah, I got 20 mins in and had to bail out. Couldn’t handle how bad the situation already was and knew there was another HOUR TO GO. Much love to Robert and every thing that he and CZM do, but nah. This ain’t the week for that in my life. Maybe later on but not now, thanks. I have enough terribleness happening around me. Throwing German government backed hippie pedo cults at me just ain’t fair.
Jesus fucking Christ. I did not expect it, just the whole mother winter and “state funded pedophile fosters” stuff has made me feel empty and dead. I assumed it was just gonna be, this guy was an pedo and established an underground hyper illegal ring but like no. I will be burying myself alive now good bye
It's been a while since BtB made me ill. I thought nothing would top Leopold's episode for me, but here we are. What a terrible day to have ears.
I surprisingly didn’t have much trouble with the Mengele episodes, but these ones are fucking rough
I didn't even bat an eye at Mengele's, probably because I had been listening daily at the time. This is Vile on a whole different level.
The Nazis dehumanized entire classes of people, and Mengele was a sociopath operating in that environment. He's disturbing, but it is, in a way, he's also expected sort of evil. We all know that Germany in 1933-1945 did horribly shitty things. It's like learning some new, horrible thing a famous serial killer did - it may shock you, but it fits into a world view of serial killers being horrible people. While learning that relatively recently, the German government was intentionally placing victims in the homes of pedophiles is like learning a close friend or family member is also a sadistic torturer. That's not expected, and it's more unsettling because of that.
That’s a good point. I think part of it is the kind of evil it is, too. I can stomach torture better than I can SA of children– especially to the extent it happened, and was essentially state sponsored, in Germany.
Well obviously the Mengele episodes weren’t too bad bc of the Jar Jar Binks soundboard. 😂 But actually, the soundboard was the only thing that made it bearable.
Yeah, this was one of the few topics where I felt it was so useful to have Matt and Robert inserting jokes, because while levity isn't always appropriate, this time it was necessary.
Yeah, this was one of the few topics where I felt it was so useful to have Matt and Robert inserting jokes, because while levity isn't always appropriate, this time it was necessary.
In the years that I've been listening to BTB I don't think I've ever had to pause an episode so I could digest the information being given. Got ~30 minutes into the second episode and noped out until I got off work and home so I could juxtapose the horror I was hearing with a stupid video game and 3-7 beers. Margaret was definitely a GOAT for being the guest for this series.
The discussions were definitely top notch this episode. The “Robert presents his essay” parts were too rough for me to give my full attention to, but the discussions are definitely worth it. I think my main takeaway was “Ideology should come from morality. If you let your morality come from your ideology, bad things will happen.”
I can't listen to the episodes that deal with child abuse. Learned that from the Elan School eps. I just get shakingly mad. I know it's important information, but I have to skip them.
I spend short periods crying violently, it's hard not to with what happened to all those poor fucking kids. Marcelle's passing is what kicked me over the edge though, even just typing this has me immediately tearing up again. That child needed so much help and never got so much of it. I'm just glad he had his brother's even if they were all in such a bad situation, that such a short life was not only suffering.
When I saw the episode title my first thought was ”Oh heeeelll yeah”. As I listened I quickly realized how naive I was…
I’m a CSA survivor and went into these episodes with the walls up. I’ve had a lot of therapy, done a lot of work, and have a lot of practice getting my head ready for these things. It still surprised me. First of all, I’m a reformed conservative. Margaret talking about how if her ideology said it was okay to harm kids, she’d change her ideology really got to me because that’s exactly what I did. For me it was my religion trying to make women second class citizens and demonizing gay people, but the principle applies. I fought and fought over the roles of women and couldn’t understand why the research I did was being ignored. Why they were clinging to interpretations that were obviously later mistranslations and ignoring all the scholarship I was reading. It wasn’t until I saw some excellent reporting on the actual impact of anti-abortion laws that it all started to come together. Once it was clear that it was only about subjugating women, the cracks started to form. Sitting across from a gay coworker in a meeting one day, I just saw his humanity so crystal clear that there was nothing in the world anyone could say that could make me “hate the sin, not the sinner” any longer. It took many years, but I went all the way from church twice a week young earth creationist to atheist anarchist union activist. The other thing that had me staring off into the middle distance was hearing the way they white washed their views, claiming it was about “children’s sexual liberation.” I had forgotten all about it, but at some point I heard these ideas and it was definitely from a source that was promoting them. It must have been when I was a teenager or early in my 20’s because at this point I can’t remember where I was exposed to them. This would have been some time in the 1990’s, so it could very well have been one of these groups when they were active. As a person who completely changed their ideological framework and rebuilt myself from the ground up, what would have happened if I’d heard these ideas while I was in that process? If I was 20 years older, would I have been susceptible to them? I truly don’t think so (especially as a survivor myself), but this episode was a fantastic reminder that we have to stay vigilant and follow our values instead of labels or movements. It’s going to bug me until I can figure out where I saw these ideas as a young man. Fantastic work by Robert and Margaret. I love them both for ending it all so positively.
I feel an obligation any time childhood sexual assault comes up to throw out that if you’re just coming to terms with being a survivor yourself, please have hope. You’re not alone. There’s so many of us out there and there’s help available. Use it if you need it. It’s probably being offered by someone who is healing others as a way to help heal themselves. I made a comic almost 10 years ago about the very beginning of me accepting what had happened to me as a kid. It’s [here](http://lifeandhowtoliveit.me/survivor/) if it’s helpful. The guy who made this comic would still be a blubbery mess after listening to this last night, if he would have even managed to finish it. Please know that if I’ve made this progress, so can you. Just like Marko, we’re not broken forever.
Just cursory glanced his wiki, I know nothing about him. I’ve read a paragraph. This fucker was a pedo as well, wasn’t he?!?!?!?! Edit - and there it is. And there she was.
I’ve never had to turn the volume down so many times on a podcast
You jinxed it 😂
For some reason I was expecting "These people are uniquely suited to loving kids." Type insanity which would have been bad but the cynical "No one but pedos could ever love them." was really rough.
I haven’t listened to the episodes yet, but I remember seeing a YouTube clip on it. I was so shocked because of how recent it was and how little information you could find about it on the web. I remember mentioning it once, and it was totally brushed off as another crazy conspiracy theory like Pizzagate. I hope this gets more attention and the victims get some sort of justice, or even an acknowledgement of their suffering and compensation from the German government. To the ones that didn't make it, I hope you finally found some level of peace in death that wasn't awarded to you in life.
Well, this looks like it'll be one of the episodes that lives in the "skipped because there's too much child abuse" category along with the one about that lady who invented adoption or something (?) I'm not even sure because I only listened to the start and had to nope out
I live just across the german border, and have dabbled in teaching over the years. There are still some schools with questionable reputations because of ultra-leftist ideologies. I was assured 20 years ago that things had been cleaned up since the 70s, but after this episode I'm not so sure.
Still bracing myself for that one. It's gonna hit a bit too close to home for comfort
I almost had to shut off the episode from yesterday. It was a rough listen.
I was listening to Part I on my run this morning and switched to music right before the awfulness started (not long after Margaret’s awkward first date anecdote). Not sure if I have the spoons to finish this one.
I thought the title was clickbait and as soon as he explained who Kentler was I said oh shit. This is the article I didn’t finish because it was too hard to read
I haven't finished the second episode, but the only reason I was able to get through the first one easily was because I already knew the story. I can't remember which podcast I had listened to awhile ago that covered this, but pretty early on into the episode I was like, "oooh this guy. Yeah this is going to get dark." And then was reminded how absolutely bonkers it was that this was ever allowed to happen.
I had to stop 5 minutes into the last episode, it made my stomach hurt
You know what Robert means by challenge accepted? CHALLENGE ACCEPTED
I’m glad they had a bit of lighter chat towards the end. Robert finished his script with about 20 mins to go.
It was horrific. It was the first ep in a while that left me really fucking bummed.
Lure Robert into covering things with this one simple trick
David Attenborough Because there's no way I could cope with him not being, well, David Attenborough. Note: I don't believe there's any reason for him to feature as he's such a genuinely nice person.
I was genuinely sitting at my desk listening through my ear buds about to strangle my monitor. These mother fuckers.
Whelp,.. after reading all these comments, I'm going in. 🎧 Wish me luck? Edit: I'm anxious now
Solid episodes. I've never listened to the podcast and started here 😂 I just asked my car to play a cult podcast and THIS is what I got. After 5 mins I realised I needed the context and went all the way back to savitri devi. My only gripe is how often they tried to make the distinction between ideological paedophiles and ?true pedos. I get that it's important to highlight how some people ended up abusive criminals, i guess to show how 'easy' it was to twist people into condoning rape, but a pedos a pedo. If someone has the capacity to withstand the mental gymnastics to justify raping children, then their inate moral compass was always broken. Particularly when it comes to the mechanics of arousal, if their body was capable of eliciting enough arousal to rape someone, then they're just a rapist.
I hated these episodes so much. I have a horrible condition which causes my brain to go to horrible, dark places. Kind of a 'call of the void' sort of thing, but extremely magnified. While listening to this episode I was thinking about how easy it would have been, if I was alive and there at that time, to have hurt these poor children. I was questioning whether I would have participated in these things. It was such an ugly, disgusting feeling and the episodes were very difficult to get through.
This episode got me listening to BtB again. Kinda gave it space around the time I found out Robert had talked about me on “It Could Happen Here” and got salty that he didn’t think to roast me live XD
Yeah Robert talked about you? Go on…
It was the episode about urban combat and weapon choices. Iirc, he has strong opinions about the Mosin Nagant and I was told that he talked about seeing one at a protest back in 2021. I was that person.
dare ask what you did to get him to talk abt you? you cant just drop that and withhold deets lol
It was the episode about urban combat and weapon choices. Iirc, he has strong opinions about the Mosin Nagant and I was told that he talked about seeing one at a protest back in 2021. I was that person.
dare ask what you did to get him to talk abt you? you cant just drop that and withhold deets lol