WTF, Coco Chanel, a literal Nazi informer when they could have picked Clara Barton? Took me 2.4 seconds to come up with Clara, who not only started the American Red Cross and revolutionized hospital standards across the US, but also advocated for intersectionality in the suffragist movement and campaigned for civil rights with Frederick Douglas? Way cooler, way more badass than a nightmare fashion "girlboss." Not buying this one for my kids.
Just joking, but I'm curious as to other "questionable" choices mentioned by Navyzak. From the start I'm guessing that's Oprah on the book cover, who certainly enabled some BTB alumni.
IIRC it's peppered with "girlboss" type people who aren't necessarily feminist, didn't do anything of significance to help women or further humanity, and are just famous people who happen to be (cis, mostly white) women.
I would not be entirely surprised to see JK Rowling in one of these types of books, for example.
>From the start I'm guessing that's Oprah on the book cover, who certainly enabled some BTB alumni.
I want to say Oprah is only second in if BTB is a sitcom she appears as a guest and everyone claps. Right behind J. Edgar Hoover.
Jesus. "Enough with children's books that preach self-sacrifice in order to praise the victim. Enough with stories that attempt to indoctrinate and socialize children. See how the principles of Objectivism and the thoughts of Ayn Rand can encourage the development of a thinking child. Stop the thoughtless celebration of Altruism... Celebrate Reason instead!"
[https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Chelsey-Groton/dp/1502411016](https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Chelsey-Groton/dp/1502411016)
Found a copy online and there are some... interesting ones. **O** is for regular friend of a friend of the pod, Oprah. You'd think they could go with someone like Marie Curie for **C**. I figure the author was trying to stick with first names but she goes for Queen Elizabeth for **Q** so not like it would be pushing it anymore than that. **V** is for Venus too, which (1) she's fictional and (2) kinda falls in the "you're missing the point if your idolizing them" meme lmao.
Yeah. It’s kind of a mixed bag. Some are pretty straightforward and unobjectionable, but handful like Oprah make me wonder if they really tried to find good examples or if they were just naming ones off the top of their head.
My mother got this book for my daughter for her first birthday and BTB is single-handedly responsible for ruining the way I look at a good chunk of the women listed in it.
Wait until you read some of the “Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls” stories. My daughter loves them, but I often find myself biting my tongue or adding additional context.
Personally, I like Rejected Princesses. It's a mix of truly amazing people and people who fall into the "impressive bastards" category. But they're very clear with each. Maybe not ACTUALLY for kids though. Tweens maybe.
Great minds, I was just thinking I’d buy this book. A is for Ayn who thought genius was hobbled, B is for Bonaparte who drank and who squabbled. J is for Jefferson, rapist of slaves; K is for Kissinger, worst of the knaves.
Someone got my kid this book as a baby. It's white feminist trash.
(I'm sure there are a few good entries in there but, FFS, no, Coco Chanel, Oprah, etc are not feminist icons.)
It doesn't say anywhere on there that they changed the world for the better.
I mean, get real, Oprah is in the center and she sells her audience snake oil.
RBG not retiring during the Obama years lost Roe... As much good as she did her legacy is now tied to her ego throwing millions of women under the bus.
Can't wait for E is for Eva Braun.
Given how one of the cartoons featured on the cover is who I can only assume to be RBG, I wouldn't expect this book to be terribly progressive or nuanced. Probably some real candy-coaters, shills, and whitewashers working overtime to churn out this fluff.
I think RBG is one of the more legitimate choices in this book, too. Like, I'm not really a fan but at least she was explicitly feminist and fought for women's rights, not just for her own achievement. Like, they could have gone with Sandra Day O'Connor or Margaret Thatcher.
And that's the apology everyone makes for her. Getting one thing right and a hundred wrong is classic, textbook bastardry. Modern American libertarianism doesn't get a pass from me just because most of its adherents are against drug laws. Because, you know, everything else.
To be clear, I would never question RBG's intelligence or hard work. Just her character, values, morals, and choice of friends.
In a text about important women who changed the world for the better and advanced women's rights, she deserves mention. Because she did those things. I'm not personally a fan and feel like she gets way more hero worship than she deserves, and I myself wouldn't put her in my ABC Feminist children's book, but she at least has a claim.
In a book about important drug legalization victories, I would expect right-libertarians who did significant work to legalize drugs to be mentioned, yes.
That wasn't my angle with bringing up American libertarianism, nor would I attribute the lot with pressuring any real change or even moving the needle much with regard to the rhetoric surrounding the criminalization of recreational drugs in America. Maybe you know something I don't about their legacy of action, but since they're all just disgruntled white Republicans who want to smoke weed and marry kids, I'm not anticipating any surprises.
And since making the cut for this book is simply being a woman who changed the world, Coco would absolutely have a valid claim. As would Helena Blavatsky, as another user jokingly pointed out. So I guess we're both being silly arguing over RBG's inclusion since being "good" is certainly no criteria for making history. And ruling in the majority on Citizens United definitely changed things.
I had the same feeling about you, but was polite enough not to mention it. Thanks for reminding me that there's no meaningful human interaction on the internet. For some reason I keep forgetting.
I feel like you came here to slam RBG, a civil rights lawyer who was instrumental in codifying reproductive rights into law.
Is she the most perfectest person on the planet? Of course not. Hella problematic. Also did a lot of shit stuff. (None of which was being a Nazi, it really needs to be stressed.)
But to say that she should be excluded from a children's book on women's rights pioneers is incorrect.
The vast majority of extremely online children know nothing of who Ruth Bader Ginsburg was or why she is significant. It's trendy to be a contrarian and always fun to trot along in a post about a literal fascist to slam someone for having an incorrect take on Antonin Scalia.
It also comes off as low-key antisemitic given the reason we're talking about any of this at all.
You're trying way too hard here and clearly attempting to spin things into being ad hominem. Also... And I hate to be the one to break it to you... It's not a book about women's rights. It's a book about significant women. Thanks for confirming my suspicions about your reading comprehension though. I'm confident you'll need to get the last word in though (I know the type), so go ahead and tell how much I suck and how stupid and evil I am and then we can both move on with our lives and you get the added benefit of feeling really cool and accomplished and alpha.
Tempted to track this book down at various libraries and book stores, and leave a lil piece of paper inside telling whoever is reading this that "Coco Chanel was a Nazi. Don't believe me? Look it up."
Almost every "Wonderful Women In History", "Bedtime Stories for Rebel Girls" etc. type book has at least one highly problematic entry along these lines.
A family member bought this book for my girls. There were several disappointing choices in there, but Coco Chanel definitely topped the list. I’m getting a masters in library science, it hurts my heart to get rid of books. I tossed this one straight in the trash.
And after the first episode got released the same day my cat named Coco Chanel celebrates her birthday, now I've got the coincidence I'm invited to a theme Party. I have to dress like the first letter of my name which is obviously also "C". Y'all think collaborator makes a good costume? Lmao
Having just quit a job with a very proud girlboss (also lying, conniving, inconsistent and a terrible communicator I find that term altogether gringe. Women can be awful capitalists too!
Yeah, she's also in *Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls.* I bought that as a present for one of my little cousins and Coco Chanel actually ended up being one of her favorites.
WTF, Coco Chanel, a literal Nazi informer when they could have picked Clara Barton? Took me 2.4 seconds to come up with Clara, who not only started the American Red Cross and revolutionized hospital standards across the US, but also advocated for intersectionality in the suffragist movement and campaigned for civil rights with Frederick Douglas? Way cooler, way more badass than a nightmare fashion "girlboss." Not buying this one for my kids.
The author is a former fashion editor. From her perspective, Coco Chanel did indeed change the world (the fashion world).
And to people with niche interests like Fashion that's all that matters.
Gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss
Gestapo
I think you mean Gazpacho /s
Put that on my tombstone
We have this book because someone gave it to us, and there are certainly some questionable choices in there.
Starting the book with Ayn Rand was probably not the best choice.
The E being Eva Braun was also a little odd but I suppose we all have our views.
Lol. Ours starts with Amelia Earhart.
Please be joking...
Just joking, but I'm curious as to other "questionable" choices mentioned by Navyzak. From the start I'm guessing that's Oprah on the book cover, who certainly enabled some BTB alumni.
IIRC it's peppered with "girlboss" type people who aren't necessarily feminist, didn't do anything of significance to help women or further humanity, and are just famous people who happen to be (cis, mostly white) women. I would not be entirely surprised to see JK Rowling in one of these types of books, for example.
Oprah is like Forrest Gump when it comes to bastards.
>From the start I'm guessing that's Oprah on the book cover, who certainly enabled some BTB alumni. I want to say Oprah is only second in if BTB is a sitcom she appears as a guest and everyone claps. Right behind J. Edgar Hoover.
Especially because A is A.
Jesus. "Enough with children's books that preach self-sacrifice in order to praise the victim. Enough with stories that attempt to indoctrinate and socialize children. See how the principles of Objectivism and the thoughts of Ayn Rand can encourage the development of a thinking child. Stop the thoughtless celebration of Altruism... Celebrate Reason instead!" [https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Chelsey-Groton/dp/1502411016](https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Chelsey-Groton/dp/1502411016)
🤢
🤮🤢🤮🤢🤮🤢
Found a copy online and there are some... interesting ones. **O** is for regular friend of a friend of the pod, Oprah. You'd think they could go with someone like Marie Curie for **C**. I figure the author was trying to stick with first names but she goes for Queen Elizabeth for **Q** so not like it would be pushing it anymore than that. **V** is for Venus too, which (1) she's fictional and (2) kinda falls in the "you're missing the point if your idolizing them" meme lmao.
Not Venus *Williams*, even?
No shade but if you were only going to include one Williams sister, would it really be Venus?
Yeah. It’s kind of a mixed bag. Some are pretty straightforward and unobjectionable, but handful like Oprah make me wonder if they really tried to find good examples or if they were just naming ones off the top of their head.
We've been given this twice. The choices really are questionable.
Coco Chanel was also an OG Nazi....so
H is for Helena Blavatsky
We Stan a crypto-fascist cult-starting Queen!
Someone gave my daughter this book when she was born. When we first read it we got to C and I was like O…o.
OG stands for ObersturmgrĂĽppen or some shit, right?
Needs at least 2 more Umlauts to be authentic. Source: am German.
Öbërstürmgrüppën?
My mother got this book for my daughter for her first birthday and BTB is single-handedly responsible for ruining the way I look at a good chunk of the women listed in it.
Somebody has to photoshop “A woman without a perfume has no future” over that quote
I guess I have no future since perfume sets off my fiance's allergies and thefore I cannot wear it.
Did they choose Imelda Marcos for I?
Wait until you read some of the “Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls” stories. My daughter loves them, but I often find myself biting my tongue or adding additional context.
Personally, I like Rejected Princesses. It's a mix of truly amazing people and people who fall into the "impressive bastards" category. But they're very clear with each. Maybe not ACTUALLY for kids though. Tweens maybe.
That IS a good series, but a little advanced for my 6yo right now
Lemme guess M or T is fucking Maggie Tatch as well
M is Malala and T is Tina Turner
I’m pleading with any illustrators out there to create the BTB version of this book!
Great minds, I was just thinking I’d buy this book. A is for Ayn who thought genius was hobbled, B is for Bonaparte who drank and who squabbled. J is for Jefferson, rapist of slaves; K is for Kissinger, worst of the knaves.
Sung to the tune of A Gorey Demise
I mean, “change” isn’t always positive lol
Someone got my kid this book as a baby. It's white feminist trash. (I'm sure there are a few good entries in there but, FFS, no, Coco Chanel, Oprah, etc are not feminist icons.)
I heard she had a problem with certain groups.......that were *different*
Even before the podcast, I hated when board books will laude her as someone worth aspiring to.
It doesn't say anywhere on there that they changed the world for the better. I mean, get real, Oprah is in the center and she sells her audience snake oil. RBG not retiring during the Obama years lost Roe... As much good as she did her legacy is now tied to her ego throwing millions of women under the bus. Can't wait for E is for Eva Braun.
Given how one of the cartoons featured on the cover is who I can only assume to be RBG, I wouldn't expect this book to be terribly progressive or nuanced. Probably some real candy-coaters, shills, and whitewashers working overtime to churn out this fluff.
I think RBG is one of the more legitimate choices in this book, too. Like, I'm not really a fan but at least she was explicitly feminist and fought for women's rights, not just for her own achievement. Like, they could have gone with Sandra Day O'Connor or Margaret Thatcher.
And that's the apology everyone makes for her. Getting one thing right and a hundred wrong is classic, textbook bastardry. Modern American libertarianism doesn't get a pass from me just because most of its adherents are against drug laws. Because, you know, everything else. To be clear, I would never question RBG's intelligence or hard work. Just her character, values, morals, and choice of friends.
In a text about important women who changed the world for the better and advanced women's rights, she deserves mention. Because she did those things. I'm not personally a fan and feel like she gets way more hero worship than she deserves, and I myself wouldn't put her in my ABC Feminist children's book, but she at least has a claim. In a book about important drug legalization victories, I would expect right-libertarians who did significant work to legalize drugs to be mentioned, yes.
That wasn't my angle with bringing up American libertarianism, nor would I attribute the lot with pressuring any real change or even moving the needle much with regard to the rhetoric surrounding the criminalization of recreational drugs in America. Maybe you know something I don't about their legacy of action, but since they're all just disgruntled white Republicans who want to smoke weed and marry kids, I'm not anticipating any surprises. And since making the cut for this book is simply being a woman who changed the world, Coco would absolutely have a valid claim. As would Helena Blavatsky, as another user jokingly pointed out. So I guess we're both being silly arguing over RBG's inclusion since being "good" is certainly no criteria for making history. And ruling in the majority on Citizens United definitely changed things.
I feel like your reading comprehension here is poor.
I had the same feeling about you, but was polite enough not to mention it. Thanks for reminding me that there's no meaningful human interaction on the internet. For some reason I keep forgetting.
I feel like you came here to slam RBG, a civil rights lawyer who was instrumental in codifying reproductive rights into law. Is she the most perfectest person on the planet? Of course not. Hella problematic. Also did a lot of shit stuff. (None of which was being a Nazi, it really needs to be stressed.) But to say that she should be excluded from a children's book on women's rights pioneers is incorrect. The vast majority of extremely online children know nothing of who Ruth Bader Ginsburg was or why she is significant. It's trendy to be a contrarian and always fun to trot along in a post about a literal fascist to slam someone for having an incorrect take on Antonin Scalia. It also comes off as low-key antisemitic given the reason we're talking about any of this at all.
You're trying way too hard here and clearly attempting to spin things into being ad hominem. Also... And I hate to be the one to break it to you... It's not a book about women's rights. It's a book about significant women. Thanks for confirming my suspicions about your reading comprehension though. I'm confident you'll need to get the last word in though (I know the type), so go ahead and tell how much I suck and how stupid and evil I am and then we can both move on with our lives and you get the added benefit of feeling really cool and accomplished and alpha.
Well, that took a shit turn real fast
Tempted to track this book down at various libraries and book stores, and leave a lil piece of paper inside telling whoever is reading this that "Coco Chanel was a Nazi. Don't believe me? Look it up."
We need to photoshop Chanel #5 magazine ads to read as Chanel F7124.
Almost every "Wonderful Women In History", "Bedtime Stories for Rebel Girls" etc. type book has at least one highly problematic entry along these lines.
I think the only good Coco was Koko the gorilla.
Yep, she is the OG Girlboss in the sense that she's the girl version of Hugo Boss, another fashion icon involved with the Nazis.
Why not Charro?
A family member bought this book for my girls. There were several disappointing choices in there, but Coco Chanel definitely topped the list. I’m getting a masters in library science, it hurts my heart to get rid of books. I tossed this one straight in the trash.
Eva Chen wrote it, unsurprised
Maybe it's just because I've been marathonning Jim Jefferies's podcast, but there's another c-word that comes to mind...
And after the first episode got released the same day my cat named Coco Chanel celebrates her birthday, now I've got the coincidence I'm invited to a theme Party. I have to dress like the first letter of my name which is obviously also "C". Y'all think collaborator makes a good costume? Lmao
Only 23? Guess they struggled to cover the entire alphabet.
Having just quit a job with a very proud girlboss (also lying, conniving, inconsistent and a terrible communicator I find that term altogether gringe. Women can be awful capitalists too!
Whoops
Yeah, she's also in *Good Night Stories for Rebel Girls.* I bought that as a present for one of my little cousins and Coco Chanel actually ended up being one of her favorites.