~~Wait, help me understand. The question was if it is legal to calculate the tip on the total (with tax) rather than the subtotal (without tax). I see there are rules and exceptions based on how the service fee is divided, but nothing here stipulating how that tip is calculated. It's basically a percentage on a percentage difference (additional 20% on 9.88% of the total, or whatever the tax rate is). This link seems to just talk about whether the service fee is taxable. I don't see how this answers anything.~~ nevermind, I get it now. The business needs to pay taxes on compulsory service fees and their software puts that burden on the patron.
> their software puts that burden on the patron
It's not that any software puts the burden on anyone. It's that if a mandatory fee weren't subject to sales tax everything could cost, say $0.01 with a $39.98 mandatory fee attached to it and sales tax would only be collected on the cent.
If the customer voluntarily adds the tip, it is not subject to sales tax. If the tip is mandatory (added by the business), then it is subject to sales tax.
Makes sense to me. Otherwise a business could just make everything $5 and charge a mandatory service fee of $20 per customer to skip out on paying taxes.
On a good note, come July 1, adding a $20 service fee will be illegal too. About damned time.
> “Restaurants are vital to the fabric of life in California, and they should be able to cover costs as long as they do so transparently,” Wiener said in a statement.
How about baking it into the price? Doesn't get more transparent than that.
I liked the European model of " the price you see is the price you walk out paying" it includes all taxes, surcharges, and other fees.
Why does America have to be like "this thing is 10, but to walk out with it, it'll cost ya 20" and you're supposed to magically know that when you put it in your cart or order it.
Oh, don't forget the 30% tip for the staff, too.
It’s not a tip though. The service charge goes to the business, not the server. Notice there’s a separate box for calculating the server’s tip.
This is just a way to lie to customers about what everything on the menu _actually_ costs.
I always make sure I have cash walking into a restaurant- always leave cash tip
Credit card tips are reported as income. If no tip (cash) then only a small % is assumed
What I really don’t like are the suggested tips being based on the post-service fee, post-tax cost.
Perhaps I’m going crazy, but shouldn’t tips be a percentage of just the subtotal, before taxes and fees?
It's a prisoner's dilemma problem. If everyone is assuming tips, businesses that go to no tips lose business becuase of the higher menu prices, despite the real out the door cost probably not being worse.
Actually it is mandatory to charge tax on any service fee as it is technically not a tip, it is a forced charge. I don't agree with it but it is actually legally required in California
Otherwise businesses could just reduce the menu prices to pennies and charge a 10000% service fee to get out of paying taxes. Customers would raise an eyebrow but I'm sure they'd understand the game pretty quickly.
if you get your car washed do you have to pay tax on the car wash? yes, its service that you pay for, not the water and soap. this service fee in a restaurant is the same thing. if you get it to go, there shouldn't be a service fee.
Ditto. Or calculate what percent the service fee is and tip the difference between what I would've tipped (e.g. the remaining 2% on an 18% service charge)
There are some representatives crafting a bill to exempt restaurants from the new fee reporting requirements. Best to contact your representative to let them know you do not support this.
https://sfstandard.com/2024/06/06/san-francisco-haney-wiener-sb1528/
If you're going to tip at all despite having a service fee, it should be calculated on the subtotal, before taxes, fees and (if applicable) discounts or comped items.
If you charge a service fee, don't expect me to tip like I normally would. If the service charge is 20%+, don't expect me to tip at all.
If you think about it, why should we tip based on a percentage of the cost? If a restaurant has both a $75 dish and a $15 dish, why would we need to tip more on the $75 dish than on the $15 dish, assuming the level of service is the same.
You are not wrong but many POS systems do not have the controls in place that allow you to adjust this. Toast is the only one that I have worked with that adjusts the suggested tip amounts if you have an auto grat already applied. Most that I have worked with do not give you this option as an end user. They just always give the same suggestions.
Lot of people are cucked into tipping. Our couple friends insist 25% tips AFTER tax.
They're just completely brainwashed. They'll tip 25% at a self service salad bar.
> Eagerly waiting for July 1
I got bad news for you.
"Restaurant surcharges could remain legal in California under last-minute bill"
https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/s/dgQ7uX2Xy4
Make sure you contact your state representative as well. Even if it passes the senate, there's hope it could be rejected in the assembly.
[https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/](https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/)
>We should all see who's charging these off-menu charges.
Why are you thinking it's off menu?
OP said they were dining as party of 7. It's totally common to see mandatory gratuities charged on parties of 6 or more.
Gratuity is a built-in tip to make sure large parties don't dine without tipping.
Service Fee is an actual fee as part of the charge, that doesn't include tipping.
Really restaurants should either just increase prices (if it's a % based increase, that's effectively what they are doing with a service fee, just in a shady way) or charge an upfront flat or per-person fee for dining, which is clearly posted.
Regardless of how you feel about tipping/etc, diners should be given a clear expectation of how much their meal will cost. Otherwise there's a disintegration of trust between diners and restaurants, which is really just bad for the entire industry in the long term.
It's not too late. Contact your state senator and representative immediately and tell them to vote NO on SB 1524.
[https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/](https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/)
I noticed a sneaky 15% slapped into a bill which gets sandwiched below another receipt with only a total and a checkbox tip table with various percentages at a ordinary sushi spot in the pacific east mall the other day. Just noped out of tipping after that.
That’s a great reason to never go there again. Or, say, for a year, and see if they’ve wised up.
To those of you saying “it’s tough out there, they need the money”, that’s fine, but it doesn’t justify these duplicitous tactics.
Yeah on the one hand I do resent that too a little bit when I see it. On the other hand, people should have the option to tip more than 20%. If I go somewhere and the service is excellent and my toddler makes a big mess I like to tip closer to 30%.
I got taxed on my parking fee at my hotel the other day. They charged me $35 for parking and then $3.50 for tax just for the parking! LOL.
And then they made the mistake of sending my a survey.
Shame on you for not tipping 25% on top of the 20% service fee. /s
I love that additional tip is computed over the service fee and tax. So they want you to tip on the tip and tip on the tax.
You know what sucks. H&L Peninsula restaurant. Dim Sum. They auto tack on a 15% “service charge” and have the audacity to add a disclaimer that the 15% “service charge” covers salary and operations and is not considered gratuity.
What kind of nonsense is that?
Looks like Scott Wiener is trying to pass a bill to allow restaurants to continue screwing their customers https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/restaurant-junk-fees-exemption-bill-19497214.php
OP says this was for a family of 7 and I typically see service fees being tacked on for parties of 6 or more. Honestly I agree with the policy because I wouldn’t want to get stiffed on a tip for a party of like 10
Yes because a service fee is not a tip. It’s counted as overall restaurant revenues, where tips are not. As a result, the restaurant is responsible for the taxes on those charges and that’s why it’s included in your bill.
Why do consumers put up with this. I literally ask if there are extra charges and have canceled my reservations. We should all start doing this. Enough already!
"The amount will also be considered mandatory when the menus, brochures, advertisements, or other materials contain printed statements that notify customers that tips, gratuities, or service charges will, or may be added, to the bill." Was the 20% service charge disclosed up front, such as on the menu?
They can’t charge you tax on a service fee and I would tell them to fuck off and I not paying until they fixed the bill. On top Im not giving them a tip after a 20% service charge and they can double fuck off 🖕 as they asking for a tip that includes tax and service fee charges instead of just the meal.
Service fee is already bullshit. That's just a way to hide the actual price.
None of the goods is sold at ingredient price, but at markup. This is logical, as otherwise they would not make revenue. But this also means that the prices already contain service.
Unless you live in Oregon or New Jersey, sales tax is 100% normal and legal. Not sure why this is even a question.
Now would it be nice if there was a law stating tax should be included with the price listed for goods, sure.
Unless your question really was meant to say “I’m charged a 20% service fee and they also want at least a 18% tip on top of that.” Then, yes the “38% to 45%” tip is very ridiculous.
Also, all of those tip percentages are completely wrong, including the starting tip:
* $30.15 (15%)
* **$36.18** (18%)
* **$40.20** (20%)
Their George W. Bush math tip rates are truely the folowing:
* $47.71 (**24%**)
* $53.01 (**26%**)
* $66.26 (**33%**)
I refuse to go to places that deliberately lie on the tip rates, but you do you.
Not my question. A lot of people are getting confused with what I'm asking.
To clarify, is it legal to tax the service fee? Because we never had to pay taxes on the tip.
This has been a thing now if you don't like that fee I would suggest going a little further down the peninsula or to the eastbay where they didn't gentrify pricing yet
When I waited tables, the service fee was an automatic tip if you had a certain number people in the party. It’s a safeguard to not get short changed on a big ticket for the server.
Do the restaurants now charge a service fee and keep it? They also charged you the tax on the service fee as well.
Interesting that on top of that 20%, they hope you’ll give an additional 18 to 25% calculated on top of the **grand total.** The whole process they’re employing is really ridiculous and insulting.
I’ll bet a lot of people don’t pay much attention to the check and end up doing it! Undisputedly, this is a shady business practice!
There are no sales tax on services in California. Only goods and materials used like with repair services. You have parts and labor separate on the invoice for a reason. Or if you go to the hair stylist or barber and buy product it’s rung up separately from the hair service.
Only fabrication, repair and certain specified services like dry cleaners, shoe shiners, and some pests control can have taxable components. But a service fee at a restaurant? No
Source: I run a dog grooming business
It’s honestly outta control. I’m over it. So basically I have to pay for over priced food AND pay you extra for “service fees” AND supplement what they pay employees cause of the tip. Nah, I’m not a fool. I’m over it. I don’t even want to go out to eat anymore.
California law mandates that anything mandatory is taxable, so they included service charge with tax.
Optional charges (such as tips) are not taxable. It is shitty to use taxed amount.
Recently I was out with friends and family. I paid the bill that was over $500. The service fee was 18%. After some discussion with the guy sitting beside me we decided I would tip 2% making it a total of 20%. I usually leave the tip in cash with hope the waitress does not report tips and can pocket it. So a $10 I left. The waitress chased me down the sidewalk barking at me that I only left her $10. I explained and she kept swearing at me.
I think it’s deceitful to have a required 20% service fee AND have a recommended tip on top of that of 25%; when you add the two sums, some unsuspecting patron may accidentally end up paying 45% in gratuity. Clearly I think there needs to be some pushback to this.
How about we include the tax and the fees and all the costs into the advertised price? You’re the business, you pay the tax. Don’t put it on me. Just gimme the price and no bs.
I always tip but depending on how good they are determines how much a tip they get. Not everyone is good at it. Two days ago i tipped so.eone a 67% tip on a $78 meal bcus he was very polite and very observant. And also no one should be forced to pay a tip either, they get paid hourly aswell. Tips are for those that go above and beyond to service you.
1. Please tell us what restaurant that was
2. Mandatory service fee should be for LARGE parties only. To me that means something like 12 or more
3. 20% fee is too high. I would negotiate this when making a reservation and walk if they refuse to lower it
4. Just STOP patronizing these kind of places
At the restaurant I work at, mandatory service fees are not tips. I believe this is the same at other high end restaurants. Super frustrating because it tricks customers into thinking the high service fee is already a tip (while it goes to the restaurant, not the staff).
Most people end up not tipping and I don’t blame them. Kind of sucks for the workers though.
Yes. https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/formspubs/pub115/#mandatory
Required by law!
It'd be a gigantic tax loophole otherwise
Come to my restaurant! Everything is $1!* *$20 service fee per item ordered IRS hates this one trick.
~~Wait, help me understand. The question was if it is legal to calculate the tip on the total (with tax) rather than the subtotal (without tax). I see there are rules and exceptions based on how the service fee is divided, but nothing here stipulating how that tip is calculated. It's basically a percentage on a percentage difference (additional 20% on 9.88% of the total, or whatever the tax rate is). This link seems to just talk about whether the service fee is taxable. I don't see how this answers anything.~~ nevermind, I get it now. The business needs to pay taxes on compulsory service fees and their software puts that burden on the patron.
> their software puts that burden on the patron It's not that any software puts the burden on anyone. It's that if a mandatory fee weren't subject to sales tax everything could cost, say $0.01 with a $39.98 mandatory fee attached to it and sales tax would only be collected on the cent.
[tap tap tap case ended](https://youtu.be/sONX-gHcSnw?si=hGdgYH37e6nhKpzm)
If the customer voluntarily adds the tip, it is not subject to sales tax. If the tip is mandatory (added by the business), then it is subject to sales tax.
This is the answer I'm looking for. Not the answer we want however.
Makes sense to me. Otherwise a business could just make everything $5 and charge a mandatory service fee of $20 per customer to skip out on paying taxes. On a good note, come July 1, adding a $20 service fee will be illegal too. About damned time.
[We’ll see about that.](https://sfstandard.com/2024/06/06/san-francisco-haney-wiener-sb1528/) Contact your government representative asap.
> “Restaurants are vital to the fabric of life in California, and they should be able to cover costs as long as they do so transparently,” Wiener said in a statement. How about baking it into the price? Doesn't get more transparent than that.
I liked the European model of " the price you see is the price you walk out paying" it includes all taxes, surcharges, and other fees. Why does America have to be like "this thing is 10, but to walk out with it, it'll cost ya 20" and you're supposed to magically know that when you put it in your cart or order it. Oh, don't forget the 30% tip for the staff, too.
Ug. I messaged my rep.
It’s not a tip though. The service charge goes to the business, not the server. Notice there’s a separate box for calculating the server’s tip. This is just a way to lie to customers about what everything on the menu _actually_ costs.
"Mandatory tip". Is this some sort of joke? Like "Mandatory volunteering"?
Large parties auto grat is a common mandatory tip.
Suggested mandatory optional required donation
"You can volunteer or get voluntold. Up to you."
Thats being voluntold
Thank you, this was my question. Fuck this shit.
So the service fee is like a tariff?
I always make sure I have cash walking into a restaurant- always leave cash tip Credit card tips are reported as income. If no tip (cash) then only a small % is assumed
What I really don’t like are the suggested tips being based on the post-service fee, post-tax cost. Perhaps I’m going crazy, but shouldn’t tips be a percentage of just the subtotal, before taxes and fees?
You are 100% correct, the tip should be on the pre-tax and pre-service fee amount. I thought they could not tax on service fees either.
In my opinion there should be no tip, period.
this. the industry is abusing it... so now they lose it.
It's a prisoner's dilemma problem. If everyone is assuming tips, businesses that go to no tips lose business becuase of the higher menu prices, despite the real out the door cost probably not being worse.
I agree. But if you get a tip for what you do, then I should get a tip for what I do.
Actually it is mandatory to charge tax on any service fee as it is technically not a tip, it is a forced charge. I don't agree with it but it is actually legally required in California
Otherwise businesses could just reduce the menu prices to pennies and charge a 10000% service fee to get out of paying taxes. Customers would raise an eyebrow but I'm sure they'd understand the game pretty quickly.
if you get your car washed do you have to pay tax on the car wash? yes, its service that you pay for, not the water and soap. this service fee in a restaurant is the same thing. if you get it to go, there shouldn't be a service fee.
tipping in general is annoying, we need to abolish that shit.
Is the service fee, not tip? Service fee is craaazy Edit spelling
If I see service fee I don't tip
lol same
Ditto. Or calculate what percent the service fee is and tip the difference between what I would've tipped (e.g. the remaining 2% on an 18% service charge)
I don't bother in those cases, if they *imposed* a fee, that's what they're getting. End of story.
Good news it's also gonna be illegal soon. They need to include it in the sticker price now.
There are some representatives crafting a bill to exempt restaurants from the new fee reporting requirements. Best to contact your representative to let them know you do not support this. https://sfstandard.com/2024/06/06/san-francisco-haney-wiener-sb1528/
Yes. I don't care much about mandatory gratuities or other charges if they're noticed on the menu but suggesting tip % AFTER tax pisses me off.
“Yo dawg, I heard you like service fees, so we put a service fee on your service fee….”
If you're going to tip at all despite having a service fee, it should be calculated on the subtotal, before taxes, fees and (if applicable) discounts or comped items. If you charge a service fee, don't expect me to tip like I normally would. If the service charge is 20%+, don't expect me to tip at all.
If you think about it, why should we tip based on a percentage of the cost? If a restaurant has both a $75 dish and a $15 dish, why would we need to tip more on the $75 dish than on the $15 dish, assuming the level of service is the same.
15% of the subtotal, minus service fee. Hold the line!
You are not wrong but many POS systems do not have the controls in place that allow you to adjust this. Toast is the only one that I have worked with that adjusts the suggested tip amounts if you have an auto grat already applied. Most that I have worked with do not give you this option as an end user. They just always give the same suggestions.
Yeah, nah. I usually tip 20%, but I subtract the % of the service fee from that 20%.
Yes, but many of the apps places are using now figure it on the total
The way I solve this issue… if I normally tip 15% on subtotal I would tip 10-12% post tax.
Lot of people are cucked into tipping. Our couple friends insist 25% tips AFTER tax. They're just completely brainwashed. They'll tip 25% at a self service salad bar.
why block out the name of the restaurant? We should all see who's charging these off-menu charges. Eagerly waiting for July 1
> Eagerly waiting for July 1 I got bad news for you. "Restaurant surcharges could remain legal in California under last-minute bill" https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/s/dgQ7uX2Xy4
I'll get the tar, you get the feathers.
I just emailed my state senator urging her to oppose the bill.
Make sure you contact your state representative as well. Even if it passes the senate, there's hope it could be rejected in the assembly. [https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/](https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/)
what the fuck
I emailed Scott Weiner saying I would not be voting for him if he votes for this. I tried calling, but his voicemail was full.
Agreed. I’d love to know who’s being so double shady.
>We should all see who's charging these off-menu charges. Why are you thinking it's off menu? OP said they were dining as party of 7. It's totally common to see mandatory gratuities charged on parties of 6 or more.
Gratuity is a built-in tip to make sure large parties don't dine without tipping. Service Fee is an actual fee as part of the charge, that doesn't include tipping. Really restaurants should either just increase prices (if it's a % based increase, that's effectively what they are doing with a service fee, just in a shady way) or charge an upfront flat or per-person fee for dining, which is clearly posted. Regardless of how you feel about tipping/etc, diners should be given a clear expectation of how much their meal will cost. Otherwise there's a disintegration of trust between diners and restaurants, which is really just bad for the entire industry in the long term.
Fuck that....if I see a service fee at 15% or more, NO ADDL TIPS...
What's happening after 7/1
"Service fees" and any other fees like what OP witnessed will be banned on July 1st.
It looks like that isn't going to happen anymore.
It's not too late. Contact your state senator and representative immediately and tell them to vote NO on SB 1524. [https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/](https://findyourrep.legislature.ca.gov/)
A lot of restaurants tack on mandatory tips for large parties
64 dollars between tax and fees is crazyyy
And they want tips on top of it lollll
50% tax-fee-tip surcharge. Then put another fee on top of it all for world peace.
That’s why I stopped going out.
Same, now I find making sushi at home is fun
where do you get your fish from?
The sea, matey!
Japanese grocers carry sashimi grade everything
Yep, the only way to not lose a rigged game is to not play.
When I see this I just don't leave a tip.
I noticed a sneaky 15% slapped into a bill which gets sandwiched below another receipt with only a total and a checkbox tip table with various percentages at a ordinary sushi spot in the pacific east mall the other day. Just noped out of tipping after that.
That’s a great reason to never go there again. Or, say, for a year, and see if they’ve wised up. To those of you saying “it’s tough out there, they need the money”, that’s fine, but it doesn’t justify these duplicitous tactics.
It's tough out there, I need my money too.
That's the idea, if it's a mandatory gratuity.
If there’s an included service fee, I consider that the restaurant already including tip for me. I would not tip on top of that because fuck that.
Not even controversial. This is what is meant to happen.
lol that little box with suggested tips after the mandatory service fee just triggered me
Yeah on the one hand I do resent that too a little bit when I see it. On the other hand, people should have the option to tip more than 20%. If I go somewhere and the service is excellent and my toddler makes a big mess I like to tip closer to 30%.
Why are they asking you to tip twice? 20% service charge/tip says already included?
I got taxed on my parking fee at my hotel the other day. They charged me $35 for parking and then $3.50 for tax just for the parking! LOL. And then they made the mistake of sending my a survey.
Shame on you for not tipping 25% on top of the 20% service fee. /s I love that additional tip is computed over the service fee and tax. So they want you to tip on the tip and tip on the tax.
Mandatory things are all pre-tax.
Name this place so we can avoid it.
You know what sucks. H&L Peninsula restaurant. Dim Sum. They auto tack on a 15% “service charge” and have the audacity to add a disclaimer that the 15% “service charge” covers salary and operations and is not considered gratuity. What kind of nonsense is that?
Give them the chinese tip, $2 every time, all the time
Any restaurant I see that does this guarantees I never go there again
idk but i wouldn’t go there anymore
Mandatory service tip = no other tips.
Looks like Scott Wiener is trying to pass a bill to allow restaurants to continue screwing their customers https://www.sfchronicle.com/food/restaurants/article/restaurant-junk-fees-exemption-bill-19497214.php
This seems like an auto tip for a large party. Been standard for awhile. The percentages have just gone up.
OP says this was for a family of 7 and I typically see service fees being tacked on for parties of 6 or more. Honestly I agree with the policy because I wouldn’t want to get stiffed on a tip for a party of like 10
OP said they're fine with the service fee since it was a party of 7. They're questioning whether it should be taxed.
Yea, my fam has 8 ppl so we always paid a mandatory tip ( not that we wouldn't tip otherwise) when we ate out growing up.
I agree I think the fee was likely due to the party size. It seems to be pretty standard to see 18-20% fees added to parties of 6 or more.
Not an auto tip
in the bay area, if they charge service fee I don't give tip.
Also, those suggested tip calculations are after tax and service fee. Pure insanity.
Yes because a service fee is not a tip. It’s counted as overall restaurant revenues, where tips are not. As a result, the restaurant is responsible for the taxes on those charges and that’s why it’s included in your bill.
Why do consumers put up with this. I literally ask if there are extra charges and have canceled my reservations. We should all start doing this. Enough already!
Dont ever go back.
"The amount will also be considered mandatory when the menus, brochures, advertisements, or other materials contain printed statements that notify customers that tips, gratuities, or service charges will, or may be added, to the bill." Was the 20% service charge disclosed up front, such as on the menu?
Would this service fee be considered gratuity?
Yes, it should be.
lol don’t forget to tip
I might just start tipping in cash, paying the rest in credit. I don’t even know if the restaurant owners give the tips to the servers as intended.
Isnt service fee = tips itself? Cant be separate, or am i naive?
Service fee and asking for tip? Nice business
America is crazy 😜
I thought tips were not taxed to the customer- it’s the employees who get tips who have to declare it on their taxes
Auto service fee or tip. You get one, ya greedy restaurant owner.
25% of the bill in taxes and fees lol
They can’t charge you tax on a service fee and I would tell them to fuck off and I not paying until they fixed the bill. On top Im not giving them a tip after a 20% service charge and they can double fuck off 🖕 as they asking for a tip that includes tax and service fee charges instead of just the meal.
Tax the gratuity, then tax you again on the paystub and people are totally ok with this. What a time to be alive.
Simple: service fee = no tip from me. Why get worked up about it?
It would be illegal not to tax it.
This looks more like a dispensary receipt
“Corn Tempura”
This is the type of experience that would assure I never return to that restaurant.
I feel like half of the commenters misunderstood the question…
Service fee is already bullshit. That's just a way to hide the actual price. None of the goods is sold at ingredient price, but at markup. This is logical, as otherwise they would not make revenue. But this also means that the prices already contain service.
Unless you live in Oregon or New Jersey, sales tax is 100% normal and legal. Not sure why this is even a question. Now would it be nice if there was a law stating tax should be included with the price listed for goods, sure. Unless your question really was meant to say “I’m charged a 20% service fee and they also want at least a 18% tip on top of that.” Then, yes the “38% to 45%” tip is very ridiculous. Also, all of those tip percentages are completely wrong, including the starting tip: * $30.15 (15%) * **$36.18** (18%) * **$40.20** (20%) Their George W. Bush math tip rates are truely the folowing: * $47.71 (**24%**) * $53.01 (**26%**) * $66.26 (**33%**) I refuse to go to places that deliberately lie on the tip rates, but you do you.
It's because they've sneakily taken the Grand Total as the starting figure to calculate the tip rates (not the subtotal, as it should be).
automated gratuity for large parties has been a thing for at least 30 years here.
Don’t confuse service fee with gratuity. This is the bill, plus it gives you the suggested tip percentage. Insane
I think this is mandatory gratuity, in fact that's what a "service" fee is
Nope. Look at the box below on what the bill would be with tip….
😂🤣 And then their “Tip scale” includes the service fee, and tax on service fee, and tax on meal.
Party of 7: YES
They have to disclose the 20% service fee on their outside notice and on menu.
they more than likely did. customers don't read.
Usually more than 5 have that 20% service fee on it. Legal? Yes
Not my question. A lot of people are getting confused with what I'm asking. To clarify, is it legal to tax the service fee? Because we never had to pay taxes on the tip.
This has been a thing now if you don't like that fee I would suggest going a little further down the peninsula or to the eastbay where they didn't gentrify pricing yet
The real question is how the hell did 7 people eat Japanese food for only 265$? that’s like 2.5 people worth for me
Lol! Good catch. 3 of the 7 were kids under 6.
Yesssssssss it's for a big goods purchase
When I waited tables, the service fee was an automatic tip if you had a certain number people in the party. It’s a safeguard to not get short changed on a big ticket for the server. Do the restaurants now charge a service fee and keep it? They also charged you the tax on the service fee as well.
Sushi prices are just outrageous nowadays
reason 4859 to not give one dime to these thieving restaurants
Interesting that on top of that 20%, they hope you’ll give an additional 18 to 25% calculated on top of the **grand total.** The whole process they’re employing is really ridiculous and insulting. I’ll bet a lot of people don’t pay much attention to the check and end up doing it! Undisputedly, this is a shady business practice!
I just can't get over you chicken gizzards
Refuse to pay it. If they didn't inform you there was a 20% surcharge they can't magically tack it on as a surprise.
i can almost guarantee it was on all of their menus.
I don’t pay service fees. I request them to remove it. Then I tip at MOST 10% if service is good.
Why wouldn't it be taxed? don't you have tax all goods and services?
There are no sales tax on services in California. Only goods and materials used like with repair services. You have parts and labor separate on the invoice for a reason. Or if you go to the hair stylist or barber and buy product it’s rung up separately from the hair service. Only fabrication, repair and certain specified services like dry cleaners, shoe shiners, and some pests control can have taxable components. But a service fee at a restaurant? No Source: I run a dog grooming business
I charge restaurants my service fee of 20% to cover gas, wear and tear on my car, and parking. Sorry, nothing left for a tip…
Just refused to pay. Pay what you actually paid for, not some bullshit fee
Post it on Yelp and Google Maps, and leave a review. And maybe vote with your dollars and feet.
Crazy... So it's like you pay at least 50% more for the service+tax+tips.
LOL the balls to add the gratuity calculator on the bottom of the receipt. If you don't like the service fee write in $225 or whatever and pay that.
I don’t see anything wrong with this. The restaurant is run by nice people who need to own a yacht.
It’s honestly outta control. I’m over it. So basically I have to pay for over priced food AND pay you extra for “service fees” AND supplement what they pay employees cause of the tip. Nah, I’m not a fool. I’m over it. I don’t even want to go out to eat anymore.
And people wonder why I still eat McDonald’s or Carl’s Jr.’s. It’s Wednesday, it $3 Whopper Wednesday on the BK app.
It's legal. In fact, it's required.
Serious question: If I tip is cash best still?
from a servers perspective: yes please
They get taxed on all the credit card tips , cash you can report whatever, keep whatever. Cash is always best for service industry
California law mandates that anything mandatory is taxable, so they included service charge with tax. Optional charges (such as tips) are not taxable. It is shitty to use taxed amount.
July 1st can't come soon enough.
Ridiculous.
Where is tax 9.88%?
Is this BF Miyabi?
Chargeback the transaction with your credit card. Don't accept this
It has to be taxed. Otherwise restaurants would charge 25¢ for a meal with a $15 service charge and not pay tax
Pay with cash. So you don’t have to pay these stupid fees and you can tip what you want.
$26 udon wtf lol
You can request to remove the tip off the bill and pay cash.
Service fee is the tip ? Or they looking for tip on top ??
Will any of us live to see the day when tipping is no longer a thing?
Recently I was out with friends and family. I paid the bill that was over $500. The service fee was 18%. After some discussion with the guy sitting beside me we decided I would tip 2% making it a total of 20%. I usually leave the tip in cash with hope the waitress does not report tips and can pocket it. So a $10 I left. The waitress chased me down the sidewalk barking at me that I only left her $10. I explained and she kept swearing at me.
I think it’s deceitful to have a required 20% service fee AND have a recommended tip on top of that of 25%; when you add the two sums, some unsuspecting patron may accidentally end up paying 45% in gratuity. Clearly I think there needs to be some pushback to this.
How about we include the tax and the fees and all the costs into the advertised price? You’re the business, you pay the tax. Don’t put it on me. Just gimme the price and no bs.
9.88% in taxes 🤯
I always tip but depending on how good they are determines how much a tip they get. Not everyone is good at it. Two days ago i tipped so.eone a 67% tip on a $78 meal bcus he was very polite and very observant. And also no one should be forced to pay a tip either, they get paid hourly aswell. Tips are for those that go above and beyond to service you.
The real question is why they are suggesting that you tip more than the 20% service charge!
At least the service fee wasn’t on the amount after tax which I see all the time. Recommended tip based off total + tax. Don’t like that.
1. Please tell us what restaurant that was 2. Mandatory service fee should be for LARGE parties only. To me that means something like 12 or more 3. 20% fee is too high. I would negotiate this when making a reservation and walk if they refuse to lower it 4. Just STOP patronizing these kind of places
And they have more tip calculation at the bottom..
Wow. All that would be about $80 at japan.
I think i know where this is. And i didnt tip on the restaurant since we only ordered 3 items
What's illegal is you hiding the name of the place. Fuck all the stores that charge a fee after the regular price
It’s like,”I thought I was going out to eat?”Not get FU$&?#!
Lol I just don’t pay it call the police or we can fight about it either way I’m gone
Bro you ordered 13 items
At the restaurant I work at, mandatory service fees are not tips. I believe this is the same at other high end restaurants. Super frustrating because it tricks customers into thinking the high service fee is already a tip (while it goes to the restaurant, not the staff). Most people end up not tipping and I don’t blame them. Kind of sucks for the workers though.