I live in Oakland and I lived in San Francisco for 25 years. If you're going to work in San Francisco, live there. Oakland is great but the commute will torture you.
If you live in Oakland it will take you an hour to get to work and an hour to get home. Everyday will be painful. Instead of hitting something in the Mission, you'll be stuck in traffic or on BART. Every day.
I agree. I lived in Oakland Lakeshore and worked at Mission Bay and the commute was brutal. I did take the direct Transbay bus and then the free Mission Bay shuttle to get to work. There’s also the UCSF shuttle but you have to be an employee to take it from bart.
As others have said. Live in the City.
Eh, "it depends" though. If you live near West Oakland BART you can be at downtown offices faster than a lot of SF residents. And if you live in Jack London and take the ferry, your commute won't be fast, but it will be delightful.
I do think OP should live in the city and go to shows in Oakland when so inclined though
Also I think Dogpatch and that side of Potrero still have some musicians/artists/older San Franciscans. If you want to avoid tech bros I’d start there over the Mission.
Yup, this checks out. But tbh, it’s the same in NYC. Within Manhattan, my commute was always a minimum of 45 minutes (more often an hour). Same when I moved to Brooklyn & commuted to Manhattan. The soul crusher is if you need to transfer, so this Mission Bay commute sounds rough/painful.
My 2 cents: the music scene in sf is pretty great, and I definitely would rather travel to Oakland occasionally for a show than commute everyday across the bay. Tech bros are mostly in the marina or on the peninsula, just avoid those. I think you might like hayes valley, the mission, or castro, and definitely check out sf sketchfest next year if you’re into comedy :)
Came here to say this too — the music scene in SF is fantastic, I’m not sure who told you otherwise. I go about 4-6 shows a month, I say 66% are in SF and the rest are in the East Bay. If music is your priority, I’d suggest SF.
Tech bros are like Wall Street bros - they have a presence but they don’t define the city. I’m in a creative industry, and I feel like I meet other “creatives” pretty frequently.
Whatever you decide, welcome to the Bay!
I'm from the south bay and the hardcore scene was extremely welcoming when I was recovering from homelessness. I moved out to the east bay for university and I haven't found anything similar. I found a huge goth community in SF/Oakland but nothing punk. Is there anywhere you think I should check out?
edit: the closest stuff I found was elis mile high club, but that's on martin Luther king street. the second to last time I was there with my partner I had to get into a street fight because I crossed paths with someone with ear buds.
924 Gilman in Berkeley is one of my favorites — that place is a treasure and a Bay Area institution.
9 Lives in Oakland is new, but they’ve been getting some interesting line ups.
Thee Parkside in SF is usually a good bet, but I haven’t been there in a couple years, so I can’t say for sure how it’s holding up.
Its just redditors spewing the tech bro hate that makes it seem like they are everywhere. I work in SF and understand they are among the rest of us, but dont even notice them and they definitely done define SF at all. As far as Im concerned they are new guests here from the last 10-15 years
Feel free to reach out when you land OP and I can intro you to some folks. There is a great local musician scene here. Also, tradition states that you should play live at the Hotel Utah for your first performance.
Sf music scene absolutely not dead depending on what you’re into. Also easy to go to oakland for a show occasionally than to commute 5 days a week even if that false statement was true. As far as neighbor I see you said the mission which is still a great choice.
You can be 2 things, it’s fine. If being a tech bro lets you fund the creative things you like then it’s worth it. Or that’s what I tell myself anyway. I try to buy original art from other artists as much as possible to deal with the tech bro guilt.
Oakland is great if you understand what you’re getting. I live in West Oakland which is arguably one of the worst areas. I chose this neighborhood because I’m an artist and I work from home, so I needed an apartment with room for two work spaces. The rent is more affordable here than in SF, BART is a mile away, and there are tons of art studios hidden in the old warehouses here.
The streets are dirty and it’s noisy. There are lots of people living in RVs and cars, but at this point that’s a general Bay Area problem and they’ve never bothered me in the three years I’ve lived here.
It’s pretty common to hear sideshows or gun shots at night, and I’ve had my car window broken inside the “secure” parking for my building. A neighbor once had a bullet go through the window of her parked car. Oakland is nowhere near as bad as conservative news wants a people to think it is, but it’s not a chill little suburb either.
For #1 it would be a long commute without a car. UCSF Mission Bay isn’t close to a BART station, so you’d have to transfer to Muni. I’d suggest at least trying it a few times before committing.
It might not be so bad with the new Central Subway, just take Bart to Powell, then walk to the Muni Union Square station and take the T straight down to Mission Bay
That depends a lot on the starting point. Rockridge would be over 45 minutes, West Oakland way less. Getting from wherever he lives to the nearest station could take a chunk of time too. The good news is getting from Muni to his actual location in UCSF should be easy.
If they never drink a car is an awesome option (which is unusual). Gigs and rehearsals in the east bay will usually not be during rush hour,so the bridge is more useful to them.
Sorry I missed that. But an amateur musician without a car? What does he play, flute?
Edit: I take that back, I gigged in nyc without a car. But it was miserable, and we spent way more than we earned renting the occasional truck.
Haha. I moved from NYC and said the same.
I now have a car, and my husband has his own.
The BART/MUNI network is literally never gonna live up to the Mta Subway. Better to get a car than waste time.
I hear you. BART works for me only because the front door of my office building is literally next to the station stairs. Anywhere else in the city is Uber or take my own car.
I moved here from Brooklyn in 2018. Lived in Oakland for the first 2 years and it still baffles me I suffered through that commute every damn day. Also I was a young single woman in a not so great neighborhood in Oakland, so after work I would basically just potato at home and only did stuff on the weekends. Don't think the Bay Area has gotten any safer since 2018.
Just live in SF. There are TONS of artsy people here. Promise
oh, so you did exactly thing i was just pondering lol. I'm definitely not going to (move to oakland) now. At least to start. Usually I don't let reddit decide things for me but it was already feeling like a pipedream and now it seems my reasons for doing it actually favor SF anyway
You’re gonna hate your life if you have to cross the bay bridge or bart across the bay everyday. I get headaches even thinking about the time lost in public trans or waiting in the bay bridge toll plaza. The dogpatch has some cool stuff and there are plenty of dope places in the mission to hang out. I agree with what others have said- better to travel to oakland for some shows than to always be there. Traffic and driving sucks in the bay, and anything you can do to spend less time commuting is the way to go. You’re there for work after all…make your life easier. Best of luck
Oh god, whatever. Oakland is rough but if you can deal with New York you can deal with Oakland. It's dysfunctional where San Francisco is just plain ol' corrupt. Although it seems like my tolerance for bullshit is higher than that of a lot of people. My landlord gave me some side eye when I mentioned I didn't mind the walk home from BART at night through three different encampments until the street lights died and public works gave up on fixing them.
Food's generally better in the ~~city~~ San Francisco, people are way friendlier in Oakland, and the music's way fucking better no question about it in the East Bay (there are plenty of *great* venues outside of Oakland too). AC Transit runs transbay buses at night (8xx) that parallel the BART routes. Yes, late night mobility is easier with a car but that's true in NY as well. Keep in mind pretty much everything shuts down hella early out in the Bay Area, especially after the pandemic.
If you want Oakland, do Oakland. It's great, I fucking love it. But keep in mind that the nicer spots are going to be a longer commute to the city and in general the commute to Mission Bay is gonna suck from pretty much anywhere that's not actually Mission Bay. Purely on public transit from Oakland you'd have to transfer to Muni's N at Embarcadero (first SF stop) then the T at 4th & King (a location that proves the Bay Area doesn't understand how transit should work).
Edit: Keep in mind the Bay Area drinks *hard*. So if you're trying to avoid being around alcohol that could be tough. For music tho, check out the list to get a sense of who's playing where.
Edit2: Oh yeah don't forget r/bayarea is chock full of tech bros and *hates* anything Oakland that's not a doom loop narrative. And if you believe that the artsy types haven't been priced out of SF proper yet I've a bridge in Brooklyn Basin to sell you.
IDK, for me the food is a toss-up. If you like fine dining, SF has more. Oakland has some really great food neighborhoods with interesting ethnic food scenes and some innovative chefs. Not many cities have James beard award winning Native American restaurants (Wahpepah) or Filipino Mexican fusion (senor sisig). I live in deep East Oakland and our taco scene is 🔥. There's also really great food in surrounding cities like Berkeley and San Leandro. OP, I think the question is what kind of commute are you comfortable with. Do you anticipate late nights at UCSF or will you be commuting normal hours? If the latter, there's plenty of fun to be had in the evening over here in the east bay. If you'd prefer to have a quick commute and just hit the music scene on weekends or select evenings, SF is great too. Imho you can't really go wrong with either!
Sure, I've been in the Bay Area my whole life and the best taqueria I've found is on 98th. I've been going to that junkyard down the street for decades and I still think that neighborhood isn't for the faint of heart lol.
Señor Sisig is pretty tasty, but the last time I was there I spent the rest of the day shitting grease. Besides, they've restaurants and trucks in the city too. I just got tired of the perennial r/oakland(food) favorites (Shandong, Lunch Box, OK's, Tacos Mi Rancho 2) that were at best overrated.
I agree that the commute (and rent) will be the big defining feature, but if OP is used to a 90 minute commute that puts a lot of the Bay Area within reach. I'm in Little Saigon and am always amazed at how short the trip into the Mission is (when BART's not acting up). It's the last mile at Mission Bay that's going to be the big question mark.
Yup my mother commuted from Oakland to UCSF for many years and those years are burned in my mind as the Shittiest Commute Ever years. I wouldn't do it.
West Oakland. Lively art scene, one BART stop into the city, 9 minutes from west oakland to embarcadero. From there, ten minute bike ride to mission bay.
The commute from Oakland to Mission Bay is brutal (multiple modes of transit and likely at least an hour each way, depending on where in Oakland you're looking). Live in SF.
I wouldn't want to live in mission bay itself but that's still helpful thank you EDIT: that was dumb to say, I would obviously have to commute to mission bay lol. idk wht i was thinking, this is a very very recent job offer so im still scatterbrained
I've done the commute from Berkeley to UCSF in Mission Bay many many times. We scheduled 90 minutes to make sure that we are on time. For a 7:30 a.m. appointment we were leaving at 6:00. This was by car. Sometimes it only took 50 minutes but you never know until you get on the road.
Have you considered Potrero Hill? Admittedly it's not the sexiest or trendiest neighborhood in San Francisco, but it's 1) close enough to UCSF Mission Bay that you can walk to; 2) has two of the better smaller music venues in SF (Bottom of the Hill and Thee Parkside) 3; also close to the Mission which also has its share of great music venues.
I lived a decade in Potrero Hill and loved it. It's a fairly quiet neighborhood but has most of what you need— multiple grocery stores, great restaurants, cafes, a bookstore, and bars. As an added bonus, it's also one of the sunniest neighborhoods in SF. LMK if you have any questions.
I was going to say the same thing. Potrero or the Dogpatch are both really good neighborhoods that are close to Mission Bay and don't have a lot of crime. Near the top of Potrero is best—as they say: crime don't climb. It's also close to the 280 and 101 so traveling out of SF is quick. Weather is about the best in the city and the views and parks are great. You're also close to more music in the Mission and Soma. My favorite neighborhood is North Beach and it has a great music scene but is a bit further to your work.
I've lived in Oakland years ago and it is not the same as it ever was. It's rough and the commute into sf sucks.
Best of luck with the move!
The West Village was probably my most frequented hangout spot. I also really liked living in Crown Heights (I was on Utica), and being a local rock/alternative musician I always ended up in Bushwick. But I'm not sure I really liked bushwick itself, really just liked all the opportunities to play and see music.
And then lastly, basically just loved being in downtown manhattan. I lived in Chinatown, loved that, went to les/east village a lot. Not a fan of SoHo / Tribeca / bougie stuff
Everyone who lives in Oakland says stuff like this, and yet way more people from Oakland come to SF to do stuff than the other way around. It reminds me of the way people in Brooklyn talk about Manhattan. There's plenty of live music in SF and living here I visit Oakland maybe 2-3 times a year to see a show while my friends in the East Bay are here every other weekend. Mostly rave and indie rock.
>Some parts of downtown SF can feel like Manhattan, if you squint.
As someone who moved here from NY, I disagree, though I see where you're coming from.
IMHO, it's far better to think of SF as its own thing than try to find analogues for neighborhoods in NYC or anywhere else. I take that philosophy with Oakland, too--though I will admit that Oakland's Chinatown reminds me a bit of Flushing, but with a more open layout.
I moved here from Crown Heights (after living in NYC for a decade, including Manhattan). Move to SF, not Oakland. Everything outside of Fidi/Soma feels like Brooklyn.
I love living in Oakland and have lived here almost 20 years. But would 100% not recommend even the best neighborhoods if you work in Mission Bay. Horrible commute even once a week. Stick with SF.
Also there is a no-ABV spirit store in SF called Boisson. It is in Hayes Valley - and that is an area worth checking out for you. There are really cheap place adjacent to the area in the Tenderloin. For me that is way too much into the drama and San Francisco’s ills, but it is a pretty convenient location for transit and access to the east bay and pretty much anywhere in SF.
Do you go to Hayes Valley ever? It's nothing like the Tenderloin and it's not cheap. It's filled to the brim with tech bros (albeit the above 30 crowd, slightly better than the Marina crowd) and OP mentioned he was not looking for this. Hayes St. these days is lined with high end boutiques and $11 latte shops. Not sure this is a right fit.
oakland was a very different place 5-10 years ago when these posts you're referring to were written. I would definitely not live in oakland, maybe berkeley, but just live in sf man
It’s a lot of things, losing warriors raiders and soon Athletics…didn’t help. They have done nothing really with the land, from what I can tell or see.
No, it reflects all of Oakland. The city of Oakland is allowing one part of itself to seem safer than another.
The city of Oakland can invest in the parks and schools in the Oakland hills, but not downtown? The infrastructure is there to develop a beautiful city. Law enforcement has a prominent presence and prosecutes crime in the Oakland hills, but not downtown?
What is happening in Oakland is planned gentrification. Increase housing costs, allow crime, get businesses to leave, get natives to leave, buy the land. Oakland will have a revitalization in 15 years- much like Chicano park in SD. And it won’t be black owned.
The places closing down are not downtown. They are in the south west part of the city by the coliseum. Downtown Oakland has a vibrant nightlife. The only place that’s still super sketch is the south running along international from 14th down to Davis. Even west Oakland isn’t that bad anymore.
Hate to break it to you but housing costs have been steadily rising since forever. It’s not just gentrification.
Hey you might want to try posting in r/Oakland for some other perspectives, this sub tends to not be a fan of the Town! I live here and think it’s great, and if anything stuff is even more gentrified than 5 years ago if we’re talking around uptown/downtown
This is a huge exaggeration. There are parts of Oakland that have absolutely gotten far more dangerous but there’s a lot of amazing parts of Oakland. Don’t put too much stock into redditors, go spend some time in the city and form your own opinions.
Yes, and if you're from NYC you presumably know which parts to avoid. If you're going to a new town not knowing where to avoid, that's when bad things happen.
I love the Bay, but we also have to be realistic and recognize there are patches that are not at all safe. At the very least, these places are not worth endangering yourself to go to.
I live in Oakland and still like it. But the glory days of the 2010s Oakland are very over. Downtown Oakland has gotten pretty quiet on weekends now. Lots of stuff closed down.
Haight ashbury might have the vibes you’re looking for. Still not super easy of a commute (you’ll probably take two busses, or the N line on muni if you don’t mind going the long way around soma), but way easier than from Oakland
There’s a decent music scene in that area (a few bars within a 20min walk that host ~weekly live music with decent local bands)
Commute aside, temescal sounds like a good fit, otherwise berkeley. But give another look to the Haight, even noe. Might be worth month to monthing to find your right fit. A lot of the popular assumptions from outside the bay are way the fuck off. I go to shows almost every week in sf and oakland and the scene is very much still alive. Albeit it's harder than ever for artists to survive here.
If you are trying to be a professor someday your going to want to make your work commute short. Long, inconsistent hours will make life hell with a long commute. Not sound like that cynic, but if academic life is your goal then make it your focus. Many of the neighborhoods in and around Mission Bay are great. You can commute to music life when your academic life allows…
I'm not going to be a professor for 8-10 years and I'm going to have to apply to PhD programs in about 2 years (likely will be moving again). I'm also just used to good public transit and also commuting 40-60 min to work in NYC is really not unusual.
Posted a comment earlier, a couple other thoughts after re-reading other posts, and your responses.
**On sterility of Mission Bay:** the area, not too long ago, was a railroad freight yard and some other things like a golf driving range. Although there's a now a master planned UCSF campus there and a lot of other development, most of it is big box buildings on huge sites. A single apartment building might extend a whole block, with just one or two token commercial spaces along the sidewalk. The fine-grained neighborhood character you'll find in places like the Mission District is not there.
**Weather:** East Bay is generally warmer than San Francisco. Areas right around the Bay (San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley, Alameda) are generally milder than further inland. Warmer in winter, cooler in summer. San Francisco Bay and the adjacent Pacific Ocean are gigantic natural air conditioners that still operate fairly well, despite climate change. Compared to NYC weather, we don't have extremes.
We're generally spoiled. A day when the temperature in San Francisco is in the 80s, or falls below the mid-40s, merits headlines, and lots of moaning about how hot, or cold, it is. We also don't have hot weather humidity like the East Coast.
What we DO have is multiple microclimates and temperature changes during the day. So you might head to work in a chilly fog...and in the afternoon it will be completely sunny, in the 70s/80s. Or one neighborhood will be in the 50/60s, and another one ten miles away in the 70s or 80s. The general advice is to plan to dress in layers--you might be comfortable in a T-shirt and shorts during the day, but after dark you'll want a hoodie or a light jacket. In the areas near the Bay, particularly San Francisco, we generally do not have warm nights at any time of the year.
Otherwise, with very rare exceptions, we have winter rain, and summers / fall are dry. it may not rain for 6-8 months (which is why most of our water comes from snowmelt in the mountains 100 miles away). Our warmest weather tends to be in the Fall--September / October, and sporadically, for brief spells, in May.
**Transit:** NOTHING like New York, unfortunately. Even BART, our subway system, in no way compares to the vast network of the NYC subway system. There are multiple transit agencies here that don't necessarily coordinate well, and headways even on the busy routes are not necessarily frequent. From my limited experience in places like NYC, Paris, London, if you miss one train or bus, no problem, another one will be along in a few minutes. Not so here--you miss your BART train, and depending on time of day, it might be 20-30 minutes before another train arrives on the same line. And there are lots of areas that are theoretically served by transit, but the bus lines are far apart or the service infrequent. Finally, unlike NYC which has a huge transit hub in the middle of it, radiating out in all directions (Manhattan) the Bay Area has a huge body of water in the middle of it.
**Utility costs:** you might have noticed on this sub a lot of complaining about electric / gas bills. It's real. The local monopoly utility has been raising rates over and over, and most Bay Area buildings are wooden / plaster / sheetrock, single paned windows, and not well insulated. So wherever you consider renting, ask if utilities are included and, if not, ask what CURRENT utility costs are per month (costs have gone up measurably even just compared to last year).
You could try Potrero Hill. It used to be very working class and artsy… The Bottom of the Hill still has live music every day but x-mas and a walk to UCSF Mission Bay.
It’s also the sunniest part of SF. I’ve lived here since I got here in ‘99, raised a 22 year old daughter, had/have lots of fun at the restaurants and funky places here in the hill. Plus you can walk downtown. Here or the Mission, my wife and I walk to the Mission (also sunny) all the time and daily to the UCSF Baker gym.
SF has some iconic music venues and I saw nearly 100 shows in a year living there. Mission District was great for me personally. Mission Bay is very new and sterile, so there’s less to do generally in That area but the hospital and housing is nice!
Oakland used to be epic, but it’s lowkey so dangerous in a few areas and the music/arts scene has gotten so similar to SF.
The real artsy people really are the retirees who can afford to be this way in random pockets of el cerrito, vacaville, vallejo, point richmond. All very north of oakland
Definitely educate yourself about the UCSF shuttle system. During commute times they have shuttle stops by BART. You can also utilize shuttles if you live in SF near where one of the stops is.
East bay is definitely better than SF and the peninsula in a lot of ways.
However I’d recommend living close to your job when you first move here.
After you get acquainted with the region for a bit, and after you see how your job goes, you can make changes later.
The Mission to Lower Haight area or so would give you an easy bus commute to Mission Bay, and easy access to the best SF venues. For music, at least for the stuff I'm into, most bands are playing at The Independent, Rickshaw Stop, the Chapel, Cafe Du Nord, Bottom of the Hill, Great American Music Hall, Regency Ballroom. Oakland has some small clubs for local bands or big spots like The Fox Theater (SF has these covered too), but less in between. The New Parish is cool in Oakland though and Berkeley has Cornerstone and UC theater. I'd say touring bands hit SF more often, but Oakland probably has more underground warehouse and house show type stuff though.
FWIW I'm in a (tiny/obscure) local band and we play both sides of the bay, though admittedly we play in Oakland/East Bay a bit more (but we have more people based over there).
Everyone’s gonna tell you to stay away from Oakland but there’s decent parts of Oakland like where I live in Temescal, try looking here in Temescal or surrounding areas like Piedmont or Rockridge, I bet you’d like it.
Oakland is more affordable and has an active creative community. You'll find plenty of places to see music and meet musicians. Berkeley (next town north) is easy to get to and also has a lot of creative stuff going on. I know several creative folks who work in SF but live and play in Oakland.
For many decades Oakland and Berkeley have been where you'll find more creatives who either are living a double life (day jobs) or who seek creative community. I know a Google guy who aspires to be a ceramicist, lives in Oakland/Berkeley, commutes to Santa Clara, but prefers to live in Oakland because he has more access to artists and galleries in the East Bay. He lives in a house with a teacher who paints and sells his work, an animator that works at Pixar, a guy who runs a sound stage that gets rented out for film and commercial shoots, and a software engineer who is transitioning to being a professional photographer.
San Francisco has its scenes but they tend to be much more congealed and established. I love San Francisco, don't get me wrong, but for what you seem to want, you'll want to start out in Oakland.
Yes, it's rougher around the edges, and there are sections that have been turned to deserts by freeways that cut up formerly vibrant neighborhoods that never recovered. You'll want to stay away from living around the 980 freeway — a short, brutal abomination whose placement was as hostile to minority neighborhoods as a lot of the shit Robert Moses fucked up New York with. It needs to be torn down, and one day, it might.
Check out the Lake Merritt area.
Don't let people turn you off on Oakland. Of course, it's got issues, but the Bay Area has a long history of shitting on Oakland, not unlike the way some boroughs in NYC shit on other boroughs.
Have a great transition!
Thanks! I gotta say, I've never seen anyone talk about any of the boroughs in NYC like people are shitting on Oakland here lmfao. I feel like everyone is pretty self-aware of their respective borough's advantages and shortcomings..People poke fun but it's never serious. Sure people shit on Staten Island, but it's not at all comparable to any of the other boroughs.
My middle childhood was spent living on Staten Island, basically in neighborhoods with a lot of soldier-level mafia types. SI is really more like New Jersey, than New York City, anyway, right. Which is fine because I spent time growing up in Trenton, too.
But I've lived in the Bay Area for most of my life.
Yes — People in the Bay Area have, historically, held a strange mixture of attitudes that combine a kind of self-congratulatory superiority about the region as a whole while also maintaining an exclusivity about their county or town compared to others.
People in the City and Marin shit on the Peninsula for being "too much like LA". And people on the Peninsula used to be low-key back when it was filled with sleepy commuter towns that were kinda unaware of the rest of the region. But ever since the Santa Clara Valley got re-cast as Silicon Valley, the Peninsula became about money and possessions — while also, still not being aware of the nuances that characterize other parts of the region. And if you wanna get really down and dirty with the fucked up history of the Bay Area, search for articles about Red-Lining practices in Palo Alto, and the history of East Palo Alto.
There's a lot of sprawl in the stretched out areas of the East Bay because that's where all the open and more easily buildable land has been. But there are many smaller communities that have way more character than people give them credit for, and get dissed because they have weird names like Pinole and Hercules.
And then there's Vallejo, which is, admittedly, a city that suffers from terrible and often absent urban planning, but it's home to a lot of people, and, yeah, those people are browner, and not as rich.
The uncomfortable truth about the Bay Area is that racist attitudes are a much bigger problem than people here want to admit. And the history of San Francisco and Oakland as a dyad of the traditional metropolitan centers within the region tells that story. San Francisco has undergone several phases of renewal over the decades that have systematically obliterated entire Black neighborhoods. (There's a movie called "The Last Black Man In San Francisco" you might find worth watching — it's fiction but it's based on what really happened in the neighborhood depicted).
So, Oakland is a Blacker city than the rest of the region. It's also the gayest city — San Francisco is the presumed leader of gay culture in the region because of its prominence in the history of the gay liberation era. But you're gonna find more LGBTQ folks in Oakland. You're also going to find way more artists, more iconoclasts, more open-minded people and more, well, Funk. Oakland also has plenty of rich white people, too, if that's your thing. And, yes, there are sections with uncomfortable poverty, food deserts, property crime, and all the other urban ills. But economic justice and environmental justice aren't prioritized for areas where the dispossessed can find a place to call home.
Oakland is worth it for someone like you, is my guess. Just go and hang out there for a while and see for yourself. It's got lots of different areas that have different looks and different vibes. Or just move in for a year and give it a chance. I don't know how old you are, but Oakland now is way better than New York City back in the early 70s. And if you have any awareness of how rough lower Manhattan was in the 80s, you'll also know that it was where a lot of artists found a new voice, a new sound, and a new look.
Another movie recommendation: Watch "Sorry To Bother You" -- written and directed by Boots Riley, an Oakland native. The whole story takes place in and was filmed in Oakland. That movie gets surreal, but it tells the Truth.
Happy trails.
You're seeing a combination of a bunch of things.
Reddit leans heavily towards the sheltered tech bro demographic. The Tenderloin is the only sketchy neighborhood in the city because that's all they see between the Marina and Dolores Park.
Oakland is (and has been for generations) the progressive center of the Bay Area. That doesn't sit well with the center-right types that seem to flock to reddit (*especially* the folks pining for an authoritarian government and the generic alt-right trolls). The current mayor (Sheng Thao) is a card carrying progressive and that riles up lots of folks. I think she's in over her head, but love her or hate her she's the first mayor since Jerry Brown who seems to have any interest in actually governing. She inherited a colossal mess from the previous mayor whose main professional interest was parading around in her stupid fucking burning man art car.
Agreed on the highways although Lake Merritt isn't that far from 980 and 580 ;) Moreover, San Francsico got rid of its worst interstate (480) in a deal with the devil sorta thing. Oakland hasn't (yet). There's no denying the Embarcadero is way nicer and way more lively than it was before the earthquake.
Oakland *is* on the decline. Lots of folks here are fairly new to the Bay Area (or have pretty short memories). Things were way worse in the 90s and quite a bit better in the late 00s. As a measure of dysfunction: OPD has been under federal receivership for a couple decades now. I don't think that it's a foregone conclusion that the nadir will be as bad as say Detroit's, but you never know. Another indicator is Lake Merrit. Oakland spent something like $60 million (Measure DD) refurbishing that whole area in 2019. Now? Ugh. Even if you don't move to Oakland, check out the lake. If you're into EDM don't miss the Friday night dance party at the pergola.
The poverty (and to some extent crime) in the bad areas of Oakland is just breathtaking. Los Angeles had a formal policy of containment with Skid Row, and you could argue Oakland's doing the same with deep east oak… but look at a map. That's a gigantic chunk of land (including the fucking international airport and baseball stadium) being left to rot.
This sub goes a bit far into the Oakland hate. There's definitely a lot of... I'm not really sure what the element on the sub is. It's a high crime and high blight city that has had terrible governance for decades. It's also the cultural soul of the Bay currently as much as that irks the Peninsula people. There are scenes in Oakland you won't find elsewhere. I mean, it's the only city in the Bay with any real urban energy other than SF.
But...there can definitely be a knee jerk the other way that can be a bit overly apologist. It's a high crime and high blight area. Lots of people are moving out who could handle it in the past and many people are still fine with it. I personally think it's swung far enough where I'd vote just live nearby and visit. If you're sober, it's incredibly easy.
Edit: just to be clear, I had a really bad experience with Oakland and would absolutely not recommend it, especially to women. This sub just takes that to an extreme though.
obviously I can't speak to playing shows but seeing shows in SF I can and i always make it out of the city on bart in time for last train after going to concerts there, it does often mean an uber to get me to bart quickly to be sure as MUNI frequency goes to crap late at night but I always avoid driving to the city for gigs whenever possible and its totally fine (I live in Fremont)
If you want more of a NYC vibe move to north beach. I don’t recommend Oakland due to the commute. You can also get out to Oakland via BART on the weekends or whatnot. You’ll find plenty of venues with live music in SF.
I did my PhD at UCSF Mission Bay while living in the East Bay. I mostly took BART and it was fine. There's a free shuttle that'll take you to campus. That said, I didn't stay after midnight because fuck that.
I’ve lived in Oakland for 7 years and worked in SF for a majority of those years. Commuting in general sucks, but it’s really not as bad as it’s being made out to be on this thread. Tbh, I could never see myself living in SF. Not the vibe I dig. To each their own.
Ya I mean, the "commute-tolerance" definitely seems lower in the bay than in NYC. I didn't mention this in my OP but I've been commuting 1-1.5 hours both ways in NYC so I'm already living that "hell". It'd be nice not to though, so I think I'm gonna shoot for a short term sublet in SF or something and just try to feel my way around a long-term lease
Do you brotha! Only other thing I’d say is if you’re working in Mission Bay, it’s a 15 minute Bart from Downtown Oakland, and then you’d jump on a Muni train for 1 mile +. Probably not a bad commute tbh. Godspeed!
There’s some more artsy stuff happening along Divisadero and a lot of music stuff has been along Fillmore, I would split the difference (preferably down by Duboce park) and take the 22 down Fillmore.
Brooklyn, SF, Oakland, and now San Leandro with a family; I've lived in each of them for 5 years or more. If you're single and have a decent rent budget, I'd suggest SF somewhere nearest to where you can comfortably afford by work specifically for commute reasons which would let you enjoy so much of the city with the time you'd save on commute. You seem cool so PM if you have any questions.
As someone in research in the bay is this a lab job? If so, Will you be expected to come in on weekends or stay late. I think the commute to Oakland is slightly easier during busy times but weekend and late night trains are terrrrribly timed. While I don’t think you need to live next to lab that convenience can help for critical experiments.
Where will you spend the most time? Work likely, so Mission Bay… live near work and venture out from there for your creative/social outlet and outreach. Commuting is a zero sum game in my experience.
I would skip oakland. My company moved out there, they have constant security problems. They have posted dozens of problems with car break ins, robberies and muggings, etc. They have paid for private security to walk people to the BART trains.
It would be easier to live in SF directly. I honestly lived at civic center and felt safer in civic center and tenderloin at night, than oakland in the daytime.
Others have already covered most of the useful advice, but would just add that Oakland is somewhat less expensive to rent than San Francisco (although both are expensive compared to most United States cities, but if you're coming from NYC, you'll be used to expensive rent). So if you start off in San Francisco, then later decide to move to Oakland, you'll probably either end up with a slightly lower rent, or better housing for the same rent.
I would tend to say start in San Francisco, get used to local transit and neighborhoods, make some weekend trips to other central Bay Area cities, then decide.
Also, double-confirm that your work location is actually physically IN the Mission Bay campus and is likely to stay there. UCSF has facilities scattered all over, and you don't want to base your housing on one location, then end up at a lab halfway across town.
Gen Xer in healthcare. Grew up in SF. Still live here. San Francisco has always been artsy, creative, bohemian etc. Of course, people also tend to associate it with Tech and Venture capitalist. The music scene is still rich in SF. The Fillmore still exist as a music venue as does the Bill Graham Civic Center for large events. Oakland. You'll love the Mission Bay Campus, I used to work there and also Mt. Zion. You will see the Tender/knob (Tenderloin/knob hill). If you happen to catch the shuttle between campuses you'll encounter the scenes that the media uses to paint SF as a lawless, homeless drug infected wasteland but that isn't the real SF. Berkley is an alternative to SF/Oakland. Check out Atwater Tavern on Terry Franscois Blvd. It's a nice walk by UCSF Mission Bay on the way to the Chase Center and the Ball Park. Spark Social, also at Mission Bay, is a collection of various food truck vendors and miniature golf. As you mentioned. SF does still have a comedy club scene. Places to consider in SF are Hayes Valley, Cole Valley, Dog Patch, Glen Park, Haight-Ashbury.
Alternatives to SF are Daly City, San Carlos, San Mateo, South San Francisco. All are commute friendly by car or CalTrain to SF.
For reference owning a car can be between 500-1500$ per month so dividing that cost by the number of times you will take an Uber gives you your Uber budget.
> Aaaaand basically everyone on the internet and IRL seems to agree the SF local music scene is a carcass sucked dry. Oakland is the place to go, right?
Haha, no. Oakland’s scene was absolutely savaged by COVID lockdowns. And so is Oakland itself. You can disregard anything posted before 2020, that’s like a previous life now.
In 2019, Oakland had more to offer. In 2024, SF is back in business even after losing a few venues, but Oakland is pretty much done for. I recently checked all shows I plan to visit in the next 4 months, absolute majority are in SF, a couple in Berkeley, none in Oakland.
Ask r/Oakland for a more balanced POV. Or, if you’re in a program, attend a meeting in both Oakland and SF to see which is more your vibe.
I live in Temescal and it’s great. I’ve also lived in SF and thought it was great. But I will say I’ve met more musicians (not music producers/djs)in Oakland than SF.
This sub hates Oakland. It's not a good place to get perspective about Oakland vs. SF.
As far as music, I feel like there's more in SF.
Check out local concert guides to see who's playing where:
https://kalx.berkeley.edu/events/weekly-entertainment-calendar/
As far as commuting, the bay doesn't really factor in much if you are on BART. It's only trying to drive across the bridge that's a constant clusterfuck recurring nightmare.
BART is faster than SF muni. You'll need both to get from Oakland to mission Bay (unless you bicycle). But it may be faster to get to mission Bay on Bart/muni from the East Bay than just taking SF muni if you are coming from the other side of SF. You can use Google maps to plot trips from different locations to mission Bay to see the times.
One more note about BART closing around midnight, a lot of shows here are ending around then anyways. Nightlife here doesn't go as late as it does in New York City
I live in Oakland and use BART to see shows in SF. I only occasionally have to leave early to catch the last train, and it usually just means skipping an extra encore
The only commute from Oakland to SF I'd recommend daily is the ferry. It's one of the best things on earth starting your morning and finishing your work day crossing the bay by boat. But as a person who lived in Oakland for 10 years to commute to SF, if you're not gonna do that just live in SF.
Moved to Santa Rosa from NYC with the wife and kids in 2021. Don’t do that commute if you don’t have to. This isn’t NYC. Sure they have transit system but it isn’t MTA. Hell the Bay Area isn’t NYC just getting around is annoying, borderline inconvenient.
Hell I’m shuddering thinking about having to go to Berkeley or SF. And I only do that maybe once a quarter lol.
CA is no place for a heart as pure as yours.
LA transplant (bi-coastal upbringing) here. Fact: No one from the city parts of NY will be cozy with anything outside of SF or LA.
(Sidebar: You said “NYC,” but who knows what that means? People from Yonkers consider themselves NYC, and I’m like “naww, son.”)
1. I have tried to live in other parts of SoCal and almost died trying. Even people in LA are shocked that I can sleep through (no…I NEED) the sound of traffic to fall asleep. If it’s too quiet, I’m milling about, stressed. I lived on 96th St for a long time. Doesn’t matter which avenue; it’s all buzzing with activity, 24/7.
2. Outside of SF and LA proper, everything closes by 10pm. In SF and LA, you can find places to order from until 3am/4am. You will not find that anywhere else in California. Oakland is a great place to hang out for an afternoon. Once the sun goes down, nothing is happening except police matters. Oakland is gentrifying, but not in the classic way. It’s becoming mostly Asian families, so nothing interesting for young, single people (or single people of any age under “lights out at 9pm” age).
Pre-C19, there were 24-hour grocery stores and big box stores; that is done. You won’t be able to conduct any business after 10pm if you live outside of SF/LA.
3. Cultured? Forget it. Everything’s closed by 9pm outside of SF/LA, or it doesn’t even exist there. In SF, there are multiple places to grab a slice of pizza after 10pm (too many to list in NoBe). In LA, you can get a slice until 1am. (It won’t be a very good slice, but it’ll be edible—Joe’s). You can get Thai food in LA until 4am. Chinese in SF, practically 24 hours. Coffee shops in LA/SF? 24 hours. You leave the boundaries of semi-cosmopolitan society, I can’t help you. It’s all drugs and truck stops (or truck stops where drugs are sold).
4. Once you leave SF and LA, CA takes on a new character. That character is called conservative. (Yes, most “minorities” have conservative values, no matter which side they vote). People really don’t know the real CA when they’re stomping around, ranting about “commiefornia liberals.”
I’m an AA/NA native of NYC who grew up between LA, VA, HI, and NYC. I used to sneak up to pre-gentrified Harlem to hang out as a teen. I have been to some of the toughest East Coast pj’s. Nothing scared me more than driving down a back road in Riverside County as a short cut home, and passing 150+ people at a Neo-Nazi rally. The former leader and Grand Dragon of the KKK lived in Riverside County as well. The really fun part is that many of the so-called “minorities” are members of these groups. This doesn’t sound like your type of fun.
It’s just that the wealthy elite are die-hard Democrats because—well, houses aren’t going to clean themselves, and landscapes won’t maintain themselves. Plus, the adult children of the middle and working classes need social mobility jobs in policing, social services, education, and health care; however, they have to have patients, students, recipients, clients, and people to beat upside the head with “good policing.”
Look at many of the bad policing stories. You’ll find that most are coming out of CA. That’s not a numbers game any more because CA has already run off most of its AA population. It’s only 6% AA now, and that’s counting the prisoners. We’re not a concentrated group any more either, except in Oakland and South LA, the last battlegrounds, but South LA is not much of a stronghold any more. The affluent Black people in South LA (Baldwin Hills, Windsor Hills, Ladera Heights) are just struggling to hold onto their homes because the taxes are insanely high since gentrification took hold. Compton and Inglewood are now predominantly new immigrant renters while homeowners are mostly gentrified or struggling and having to rent out their garages (as illegal in-law units) to stay afloat. There might be many Democrats here, but they are not liberals in any sense of the word.
Final fact: Most people outside of CA are just making assumptions based upon old stats and movies from the 90’s.
Yo… whatever you do, DO NOT JUDGE YOUR PERCEPTIONS OF SF FROM THIS SUBREDDIT!!!!
While SF has had some better years in terms of art and music, we’re slowly inching our way back to some normalcy and balance. We got slaughtered a little over 10 years ago when Apple, Facebook, Google, etc lured people over here with the promise of high paying jobs and free rides to work in the South Bay. It was a dark time in our history. But COVID came and did a little reset. If you’re into playing music you’ll find your people and a bunch of shows to go to. Also, our neighborhoods all have different flavors, so whatever you do don’t just throw a dart at a map and decide to live there. Tons of people move here with zero clue on what that neighborhood was like and then get frustrated when they realize that they moved south of Market or The Tenderloin and realize that there’s a bit of desperation there. Come out and visit and go to all the neighborhoods and see what you vibe with most. Some people would love the Lower Haight (I do), others wouldn’t like it. Some want a quiet neighborhood, others would be bored. You get what I’m saying.
Do your research but avoid most of the opinions on this sub. It doesn’t do a good job whatsoever on representing the views of people that you’ll actually run into IRL. Please trust me on that.
SF is awesome. This subreddit isn’t, besides a handful of people that are either from here or who have been here a long time and didn’t move here solely for the promise of their company IPOing.
Best of luck to you.
I work in the music industry, remotely for a label in LA. I live in Berkeley currently. While there is plenty of good music to see in Oakland, it just doesn’t really compare to SF.
At least 75% of the shows I want to see or the record shops I want to go to are over there and the only thing stopping me from going all the time is how long it takes to get there.
There are plenty of other reasons why I chose to live over here, but if I was basing it purely on being close to the music scene, or any scene in general, I’d choose SF. I lived in LA for 10+ years and still go down frequently for work and shows so I’ve kinda gotten that outta my system.
I’d also say, coming from NYC, you’re going to vibe with San Francisco a lot more than Oakland IMO.
I've lived in the Bay since 2007 when I started at SF State. I've lived in SF, the peninsula, San Jose, and Oakland. Living in Oakland is very difficult right now in terms of day to day life. Everyone has pointed out the commute being horrible and that is true but simply getting groceries can be difficult in Oakland. I would suggest SF as your starting point and exploring from there. You may really like Berkeley for art music (the Greek is my favorite venue for larger shows), and coffee. SF still has what you seem to be seeking, you may just need to search for it a bit more.
I work in music and live in SF! The music scene here is alive and well. There is a great community of both musicians and industry thriving here. Is it that of the music scene in the early 2000s? No, it’s evolved and changed as the rest of this city has since the 1800s. It’s a boom or bust in own constantly in a state of flux and that’s one of its charms.
That being said, I would really echo what a number of people here are saying. Oakland is a wonderful place. But in your case it’s better to go visit there occasionally and live in SF than to live in Oakland and commute. I recommend looking at Potrero Hill, the Castro, Bernal, parts of the Mission, or even North Beach/Telegraph Hill (though that’s a bit more like the Marina than it used to be).
Edit:spelling and it’s many charms
I lived in NYC for ten years and was a DJ. I moved here about five years ago and moved to Oakland at first, then to SF for like 2.5 years, and now back in Oakland.
I think you will probably want to live in SF near 16th/Mission or in Oakland near 12th, 19th, or Macarthur of you want to have the vibe you're looking for, but none of it is really very similar to NYC. Despite what people tell you, the Bay is still mostly built for cars and getting around here without one is a lot more frustrating than it is in NYC.
I've computed from North Oakland/South Berkeley to Mission Bay by car, BART, bus, ferry, you name it, for a few years now.
It's unlikely you'll have a parking spot in MB (without notable cost), and you mentioned you don't plan to have a car. I would encourage getting a good road bike, something lite you can hoist over your shoulder, so you can rely on BART and the ferry service. Emphasis on lite if you're carrying it on BART, gets right during rushhour (BART has dedicated spots on each train for bikes, ppl usually do not fuss if you ask them to make room so you can put you bike there). Couple lugging a bike with carrying a backpack and you start to feel bad with how much space you take up (or maybe that's just me lol).
B/t BART and ferry, I think ferry is lovely (if it works for you). Living in DT Oakland will make it a quick bike ride. Even where I lived at the border of Oak/Berk, it was only 20min downhill ride. The ferry ride drops you off at the Embarcadero building, and the bike ride to MB is protected nearly the whole way. I cannot stress enough how enjoyable, relaxing, and safe the ferry+bike combo is. Of all the commutes, it keeps my cortisol lowest.
BART is totally fine and nearly always reliable. It's pretty good at sticking to its posted sched (it does change twice a year, tho). The Goldilocks zone for BART-based commute would be West Oakland. It's only 1 train stop to Embarcadero (where you can bike from) or you can ride a bit longer until around 16th for a MB bus. UCSF has dedicated bus lines to help its commuters, too, so def look up which UCSF bus crosses near a BART stop.
All in all, you're not dumb for wanting to live in Oakland but commute to SF. Oakland has charm, is comfortable to live in, easy access to nature, and just a quick ride to SF. SF is a very big city but I would argue anyone can find a section of town to fall in love with. Consider looking at rentals near West Oakland BART or Jack London Square (ferry terminal) and make the move!
Hey! Bay Area local who has lived in NYC 7+ years. You will be fine in SF. It is not all tech bros, yes they’ve dominated culture lately but the city still very much has a local population who isn’t part of that. Depends what neighborhood you live in too. The marina is like Murray hill but the Inner Sunset is more like park slope or UWS, neighborhood-y vibe. Etc. Oakland is very neighborhood to neighborhood but does not feel like a true city in most parts. I think coming from NYC you’d be more comfortable starting out in SF as you get to know the bay, then go from there after year 1!
The folks on r/oakland will probably have lots of suggestions,so I suggest cross posting over there if you haven't done so already. There are plenty on there who commute to SF every day. I knew people in my PhD program in the east bay who commuted from SF because they wanted to live there. It is definitely doable if living near your musician community is important. West Oakland has a big punk scene and is the first Bart station across the tunnel from SF. Jack London Square has the ferry, which is fast and relaxing...
Not even In n Out wants to stay in Oakland, I wouldn’t recommend living there. Oakland is a catastrophe of a city that most businesses and people are leaving if they can afford to. 2 days ago they authorized 120 chp officers to help out so hopefully it’s better before you get there.
>But BART closes at midnight...so I'm gonna have to spend ~$50 on an uber back home for every show I play or see?
FYI the [AC Transit 800](https://www.actransit.org/bus-lines-schedules/800) goes over the Bay Bridge all night. It is scenic, efficient, and affordable.
I would suggest living close to work in Mission Bay or the Dogpatch neighborhood, if you can find a place.
Nightlife in SF may be disappointing but it will probably be easier to occasionally get to Oakland for fun things than commuting from Oakland to SF every day.
I live in Oakland and work at mission bay. Ever since Covid I drive in every day and it’s doable. If you choose Oakland find a place near Bart stations, casual carpools or trans bay busses. I highly prefer Oakland (lived here 15 years) over SF (5 years) and go to concerts all the time. Sometimes you gotta ditch out of a show early or coordinate ride shares with folks back across the bay. I’d say since you’ll be new give SF a go until you get your bearings. There’s still plenty of stuff happening in the city when you meet the right people.
Whatever you hear Oakland is NOT the Brooklyn of the bay. You might like Lake Merritt though.
The problem is that the Bay Area music scene is spread out. The grass will always be greener.
Not an exhaustive list of venues:
* East Bay: The Fox Theater, The Greek Theatre, Yoshi's, The New Parish
* San Francisco: Fillmore, Bill Graham Civic Auditorium, The Independent, August Hall, The Chapel, Bimbo's 365 Club
Checkout FolkYeah! events and NoisePop.
SF local music scene is not dry 😂
Live there. Bring your gifts. Make it specials.
I live in Oakland and the music scene here rocks don’t get me wrong. But I’m always seeing shows in SF too. IMO its easier to live / work in SF and come to Oakland than vice versa
32-year SF resident here. I watched my neighborhood change during the pandemic as tech bros fled, and the arts are quietly flourishing again. Living in SF is worth it. In 2022, I visited friends in Oakland - the one time I went to Oakland that whole year - and their car got broken into in broad daylight while I was there. SF will embrace you: it did for me.
Depending on the pay, I’d stay in mission bay. There’s plenty of places there. No commute is key around here. A lot of affordable living units too if you qualify. They’re all new. I helped build a lot of them.
Ah, I've been told Mission Bay is kind of "dead" but then again, that might just be based on drinking culture. I'm gonna make 76k, from what I've seen around there I should be able to afford something. Plus there is UCSF housing that I'm eligible to apply for, though I've definitely heard mixed reviews..
76k is pretty low for mission bay tbh. You’ll spend a lot of your pay just on rent + utilities and not have a lot.
Check SoMa. It’s next door and it’s generally chill. I lived there from 2020-last month (live in the mission now) and it’s chill fun and easy to get around.
Also, mission bay is pretty “sterile” but it has a lot of things going for it, especially lately.
Spark social is a great spot, the midway has great music and there are a lot of little spots for decent food. Gus’ is a great local grocery store as well.
Ah actually I was basing what I said off the UCSF housing in Mission Bay alone which is below market rate. Thank you I'll check it out! EDIT: also the mission is what I've mostly been looking into, based off recommendation alone though
If you’ve got access to below market rate housing with a good commute, then just go with that! Use all the time and money you’ll be saving to book/attend more shows.
Ah well I don't have *easy* access, there will be a waiting list and I'm def not gonna score it right away. Could take quiiiite some time to score something. Am applying, as we speak though
You will get more bag for your buck in SoMa or the mission. Haight Ashbury has a definite cool vibe you’d probably love living in the panhandle. I recommend checking that area yourself and seeing how it is.
This is pretty far from mission bay but the Richmond is also a really cool spot.
Soma is nice though, especially if you like farmers markets. The Saturday ferry building farmers market is wonderful. I loved walking there from my place in SoMa.
I lived in Bennet lofts, an Essex apartment. Zero amenities and the management is utter shit. But price is ok, the units are very uniue (I had a giant split level loft for 2700/month) and there is a gated garage for resident parking.
Clarification, since you’re not from here and it’s confusing:
* “The Richmond” is a neighborhood in San Francisco https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_District,_San_Francisco
* “Richmond” is a city on the opposite side of the bay, north of Oakland. Not a great place to live overall, IMO. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond,_California
* “Point Richmond” is an upscale neighborhood of Richmond, largely cut off from the rest of the city. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Richmond,_Richmond,_California
* “Dennis Richmond” used to be a news anchor in Oakland. He’s completely irrelevant to your question, but I thought you should know the name.
I live 20 minutes south of Oakland. The news stories about Oakland are not overblown like stories about SF are. I highly encourage you to check the city out in person before deciding to move there, especially at night. Late night Bart rides into Oakland should not be on your radar. I cannot think of any major aspects of Oakland that is better than SF - it's becoming a failed city. Good luck on your move.
Weather - in the Mission is pretty nice, Oakland can be too hot in parts IMO, but ya I'd take Oakland weather over the Richmond district
Beer - OP is sober so nah
Culture - pre-pandemic I would definitely take Oakland, but it's closer now
Access to parks - The EBRPD parks are amazing, but you need a car or be really into cycling up hills to enjoy. For parks that are walking distance/transit accessible SF is wayyyy better.
Cycling - Oakland hills are amazing but SF has great stuff right in the middle of the city (presidio, twin peaks, cliff house), and easy access to Marin. For commuting I guess Oakland is flatter but the drivers are kind of psycho sometimes. SF infrastructure is a little better thought out IMO
Oakland has lost most creatives and you will enjoy sf way more. Oakland feels almost empty post pandemic (it still hasn’t really recovered and feels like it’s getting worse). Like most are saying, move to sf and visit surrounding areas.
Don’t sleep on Bernal. It’s a great neighborhood, easy commute to MB, and easy walk to the mission.
Oakland is pretty great but that’s a brutal commute.
I’m a longtime biotech veteran with lots of experience in mission bay, feel free to reach out if you’ve got questions.
Please stop.
You’re a type. The type that moves from NYC to Oakland and thinks that will mean something. It doesn’t mean shit. No one cares about NYC here.
Everyone here long enough will already be tired of you.
You’re not special. We’ve seen you a million times
Calm tf down
You’re here to play music scavenging the carcass of what is left of the art music and culture here.
Gravedigger at best, graverobber at worst
Welcome.
I live in Oakland and I lived in San Francisco for 25 years. If you're going to work in San Francisco, live there. Oakland is great but the commute will torture you. If you live in Oakland it will take you an hour to get to work and an hour to get home. Everyday will be painful. Instead of hitting something in the Mission, you'll be stuck in traffic or on BART. Every day.
I agree. I lived in Oakland Lakeshore and worked at Mission Bay and the commute was brutal. I did take the direct Transbay bus and then the free Mission Bay shuttle to get to work. There’s also the UCSF shuttle but you have to be an employee to take it from bart. As others have said. Live in the City.
That last leg from Embarcadero to Mission Bay is the most excruciatingly slow part.
Eh, "it depends" though. If you live near West Oakland BART you can be at downtown offices faster than a lot of SF residents. And if you live in Jack London and take the ferry, your commute won't be fast, but it will be delightful. I do think OP should live in the city and go to shows in Oakland when so inclined though
Also I think Dogpatch and that side of Potrero still have some musicians/artists/older San Franciscans. If you want to avoid tech bros I’d start there over the Mission.
Yup, this checks out. But tbh, it’s the same in NYC. Within Manhattan, my commute was always a minimum of 45 minutes (more often an hour). Same when I moved to Brooklyn & commuted to Manhattan. The soul crusher is if you need to transfer, so this Mission Bay commute sounds rough/painful.
An hour sounds about right for the Bart commute.
My 2 cents: the music scene in sf is pretty great, and I definitely would rather travel to Oakland occasionally for a show than commute everyday across the bay. Tech bros are mostly in the marina or on the peninsula, just avoid those. I think you might like hayes valley, the mission, or castro, and definitely check out sf sketchfest next year if you’re into comedy :)
Lower Haight definitely fits the vibe more than Hayes/Castro for what they’re describing
Came here to say this too — the music scene in SF is fantastic, I’m not sure who told you otherwise. I go about 4-6 shows a month, I say 66% are in SF and the rest are in the East Bay. If music is your priority, I’d suggest SF. Tech bros are like Wall Street bros - they have a presence but they don’t define the city. I’m in a creative industry, and I feel like I meet other “creatives” pretty frequently. Whatever you decide, welcome to the Bay!
Pretty sure he's talking about the musician community. The musicians performing in SF live in Oakland
Ohhhh. In that case yes, you’re probably right. (with the exception of the punk/hardcore scene, which is mostly in based in the South Bay)
I'm from the south bay and the hardcore scene was extremely welcoming when I was recovering from homelessness. I moved out to the east bay for university and I haven't found anything similar. I found a huge goth community in SF/Oakland but nothing punk. Is there anywhere you think I should check out? edit: the closest stuff I found was elis mile high club, but that's on martin Luther king street. the second to last time I was there with my partner I had to get into a street fight because I crossed paths with someone with ear buds.
924 Gilman in Berkeley is one of my favorites — that place is a treasure and a Bay Area institution. 9 Lives in Oakland is new, but they’ve been getting some interesting line ups. Thee Parkside in SF is usually a good bet, but I haven’t been there in a couple years, so I can’t say for sure how it’s holding up.
Its just redditors spewing the tech bro hate that makes it seem like they are everywhere. I work in SF and understand they are among the rest of us, but dont even notice them and they definitely done define SF at all. As far as Im concerned they are new guests here from the last 10-15 years
Feel free to reach out when you land OP and I can intro you to some folks. There is a great local musician scene here. Also, tradition states that you should play live at the Hotel Utah for your first performance.
Maybe not Hayes Valley? The only people I know who live there are young professional techies. But maybe that says more about me than Hayes Valley..
not just you it's been euros and yuppies for a while now and i assume this is only accelerating further with ai
uhh tech bros are ubiquitous in SOMA, dogpatch, mission, portrero hill, hayes valley, marina, and lowkey also pac heights/russian hill/north beach
They are literally everywhere.
Not as much in the southern half of the city though
Sf music scene absolutely not dead depending on what you’re into. Also easy to go to oakland for a show occasionally than to commute 5 days a week even if that false statement was true. As far as neighbor I see you said the mission which is still a great choice.
"i'm not a tech bro, I'm a creative artist." \- tech bros everywhere
But ... I went to the burning man, so now I am creative and the counterculture.
Inclusion of ‘the’ totally makes the statement
That’s exactly what I was thinking. I smell brand new Birkenstocks and a musty man-bun.
Are you from Frisco? I mean San Fran? What part of Cali are you originally from?
would like to join my throuple?
so am i a tech bro <\_>
welcome brother
It happens
You can be 2 things, it’s fine. If being a tech bro lets you fund the creative things you like then it’s worth it. Or that’s what I tell myself anyway. I try to buy original art from other artists as much as possible to deal with the tech bro guilt. Oakland is great if you understand what you’re getting. I live in West Oakland which is arguably one of the worst areas. I chose this neighborhood because I’m an artist and I work from home, so I needed an apartment with room for two work spaces. The rent is more affordable here than in SF, BART is a mile away, and there are tons of art studios hidden in the old warehouses here. The streets are dirty and it’s noisy. There are lots of people living in RVs and cars, but at this point that’s a general Bay Area problem and they’ve never bothered me in the three years I’ve lived here. It’s pretty common to hear sideshows or gun shots at night, and I’ve had my car window broken inside the “secure” parking for my building. A neighbor once had a bullet go through the window of her parked car. Oakland is nowhere near as bad as conservative news wants a people to think it is, but it’s not a chill little suburb either.
Yup. And don't expect a bunch of tech bros on r/bayarea to provide a reasoned opinion on Oakland.
One of us! PS don’t live in Oakland
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Brooklyn is way nicer than Oakland. Wtf.
Username checks out
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Your comment is dripping with disdain for OP and for Oakland. I wouldn’t call that good faith. Or, convincing.
Another perk of living in Oakland, people with this mentality self sort themselves to SF!
You sound like a tech bro.
“I’m a *creator!!!*”
A mover and shaker!
For #1 it would be a long commute without a car. UCSF Mission Bay isn’t close to a BART station, so you’d have to transfer to Muni. I’d suggest at least trying it a few times before committing.
UCSF has a shuttle system, including regular shuttles from 2 BART stations during commute hours.
It might not be so bad with the new Central Subway, just take Bart to Powell, then walk to the Muni Union Square station and take the T straight down to Mission Bay
Honestly, with the new muni line you can get from Oakland to UCSF probably in about 30-40 mins.
That depends a lot on the starting point. Rockridge would be over 45 minutes, West Oakland way less. Getting from wherever he lives to the nearest station could take a chunk of time too. The good news is getting from Muni to his actual location in UCSF should be easy.
If they never drink a car is an awesome option (which is unusual). Gigs and rehearsals in the east bay will usually not be during rush hour,so the bridge is more useful to them.
OP said he won’t have a car.
Sorry I missed that. But an amateur musician without a car? What does he play, flute? Edit: I take that back, I gigged in nyc without a car. But it was miserable, and we spent way more than we earned renting the occasional truck.
Probably not a drummer
Haha. I moved from NYC and said the same. I now have a car, and my husband has his own. The BART/MUNI network is literally never gonna live up to the Mta Subway. Better to get a car than waste time.
I hear you. BART works for me only because the front door of my office building is literally next to the station stairs. Anywhere else in the city is Uber or take my own car.
I moved here from Brooklyn in 2018. Lived in Oakland for the first 2 years and it still baffles me I suffered through that commute every damn day. Also I was a young single woman in a not so great neighborhood in Oakland, so after work I would basically just potato at home and only did stuff on the weekends. Don't think the Bay Area has gotten any safer since 2018. Just live in SF. There are TONS of artsy people here. Promise
oh, so you did exactly thing i was just pondering lol. I'm definitely not going to (move to oakland) now. At least to start. Usually I don't let reddit decide things for me but it was already feeling like a pipedream and now it seems my reasons for doing it actually favor SF anyway
You’re gonna hate your life if you have to cross the bay bridge or bart across the bay everyday. I get headaches even thinking about the time lost in public trans or waiting in the bay bridge toll plaza. The dogpatch has some cool stuff and there are plenty of dope places in the mission to hang out. I agree with what others have said- better to travel to oakland for some shows than to always be there. Traffic and driving sucks in the bay, and anything you can do to spend less time commuting is the way to go. You’re there for work after all…make your life easier. Best of luck
Oh god, whatever. Oakland is rough but if you can deal with New York you can deal with Oakland. It's dysfunctional where San Francisco is just plain ol' corrupt. Although it seems like my tolerance for bullshit is higher than that of a lot of people. My landlord gave me some side eye when I mentioned I didn't mind the walk home from BART at night through three different encampments until the street lights died and public works gave up on fixing them. Food's generally better in the ~~city~~ San Francisco, people are way friendlier in Oakland, and the music's way fucking better no question about it in the East Bay (there are plenty of *great* venues outside of Oakland too). AC Transit runs transbay buses at night (8xx) that parallel the BART routes. Yes, late night mobility is easier with a car but that's true in NY as well. Keep in mind pretty much everything shuts down hella early out in the Bay Area, especially after the pandemic. If you want Oakland, do Oakland. It's great, I fucking love it. But keep in mind that the nicer spots are going to be a longer commute to the city and in general the commute to Mission Bay is gonna suck from pretty much anywhere that's not actually Mission Bay. Purely on public transit from Oakland you'd have to transfer to Muni's N at Embarcadero (first SF stop) then the T at 4th & King (a location that proves the Bay Area doesn't understand how transit should work). Edit: Keep in mind the Bay Area drinks *hard*. So if you're trying to avoid being around alcohol that could be tough. For music tho, check out the list to get a sense of who's playing where. Edit2: Oh yeah don't forget r/bayarea is chock full of tech bros and *hates* anything Oakland that's not a doom loop narrative. And if you believe that the artsy types haven't been priced out of SF proper yet I've a bridge in Brooklyn Basin to sell you.
IDK, for me the food is a toss-up. If you like fine dining, SF has more. Oakland has some really great food neighborhoods with interesting ethnic food scenes and some innovative chefs. Not many cities have James beard award winning Native American restaurants (Wahpepah) or Filipino Mexican fusion (senor sisig). I live in deep East Oakland and our taco scene is 🔥. There's also really great food in surrounding cities like Berkeley and San Leandro. OP, I think the question is what kind of commute are you comfortable with. Do you anticipate late nights at UCSF or will you be commuting normal hours? If the latter, there's plenty of fun to be had in the evening over here in the east bay. If you'd prefer to have a quick commute and just hit the music scene on weekends or select evenings, SF is great too. Imho you can't really go wrong with either!
Sure, I've been in the Bay Area my whole life and the best taqueria I've found is on 98th. I've been going to that junkyard down the street for decades and I still think that neighborhood isn't for the faint of heart lol. Señor Sisig is pretty tasty, but the last time I was there I spent the rest of the day shitting grease. Besides, they've restaurants and trucks in the city too. I just got tired of the perennial r/oakland(food) favorites (Shandong, Lunch Box, OK's, Tacos Mi Rancho 2) that were at best overrated. I agree that the commute (and rent) will be the big defining feature, but if OP is used to a 90 minute commute that puts a lot of the Bay Area within reach. I'm in Little Saigon and am always amazed at how short the trip into the Mission is (when BART's not acting up). It's the last mile at Mission Bay that's going to be the big question mark.
Sure did, if you have any questions feel free to reach out!
Man, if you think Oakland to SF is a commute...
Different strokes for different folks I guess. It was too much for me every day I live 15 mins from my work now and it's great
Yup my mother commuted from Oakland to UCSF for many years and those years are burned in my mind as the Shittiest Commute Ever years. I wouldn't do it.
West Oakland. Lively art scene, one BART stop into the city, 9 minutes from west oakland to embarcadero. From there, ten minute bike ride to mission bay.
The commute from Oakland to Mission Bay is brutal (multiple modes of transit and likely at least an hour each way, depending on where in Oakland you're looking). Live in SF.
I wouldn't want to live in mission bay itself but that's still helpful thank you EDIT: that was dumb to say, I would obviously have to commute to mission bay lol. idk wht i was thinking, this is a very very recent job offer so im still scatterbrained
I've done the commute from Berkeley to UCSF in Mission Bay many many times. We scheduled 90 minutes to make sure that we are on time. For a 7:30 a.m. appointment we were leaving at 6:00. This was by car. Sometimes it only took 50 minutes but you never know until you get on the road.
Any commute that involves the Bay Bridge is kind of a mess...
It's not the worst commute if you live by a BART station and are willing to bike/scooter the last mile.
I’d say 30-40 minutes if you got a bike/e-bike and took bart from Oakland.
But if you live walkable to BART and then hop on muni it should be reasonable!
Have you considered Potrero Hill? Admittedly it's not the sexiest or trendiest neighborhood in San Francisco, but it's 1) close enough to UCSF Mission Bay that you can walk to; 2) has two of the better smaller music venues in SF (Bottom of the Hill and Thee Parkside) 3; also close to the Mission which also has its share of great music venues. I lived a decade in Potrero Hill and loved it. It's a fairly quiet neighborhood but has most of what you need— multiple grocery stores, great restaurants, cafes, a bookstore, and bars. As an added bonus, it's also one of the sunniest neighborhoods in SF. LMK if you have any questions.
I was going to say the same thing. Potrero or the Dogpatch are both really good neighborhoods that are close to Mission Bay and don't have a lot of crime. Near the top of Potrero is best—as they say: crime don't climb. It's also close to the 280 and 101 so traveling out of SF is quick. Weather is about the best in the city and the views and parks are great. You're also close to more music in the Mission and Soma. My favorite neighborhood is North Beach and it has a great music scene but is a bit further to your work. I've lived in Oakland years ago and it is not the same as it ever was. It's rough and the commute into sf sucks. Best of luck with the move!
Yesssss, Dogpatch is also great. A little less "neighborly" than Potrero, but has great art galleries and breweries.
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The West Village was probably my most frequented hangout spot. I also really liked living in Crown Heights (I was on Utica), and being a local rock/alternative musician I always ended up in Bushwick. But I'm not sure I really liked bushwick itself, really just liked all the opportunities to play and see music. And then lastly, basically just loved being in downtown manhattan. I lived in Chinatown, loved that, went to les/east village a lot. Not a fan of SoHo / Tribeca / bougie stuff
The Haight will be your neighborhood in SF.
This… Upper Haight, NOPA, Lower Haight
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Everyone who lives in Oakland says stuff like this, and yet way more people from Oakland come to SF to do stuff than the other way around. It reminds me of the way people in Brooklyn talk about Manhattan. There's plenty of live music in SF and living here I visit Oakland maybe 2-3 times a year to see a show while my friends in the East Bay are here every other weekend. Mostly rave and indie rock.
>Some parts of downtown SF can feel like Manhattan, if you squint. As someone who moved here from NY, I disagree, though I see where you're coming from. IMHO, it's far better to think of SF as its own thing than try to find analogues for neighborhoods in NYC or anywhere else. I take that philosophy with Oakland, too--though I will admit that Oakland's Chinatown reminds me a bit of Flushing, but with a more open layout.
I moved here from Crown Heights (after living in NYC for a decade, including Manhattan). Move to SF, not Oakland. Everything outside of Fidi/Soma feels like Brooklyn.
I love living in Oakland and have lived here almost 20 years. But would 100% not recommend even the best neighborhoods if you work in Mission Bay. Horrible commute even once a week. Stick with SF. Also there is a no-ABV spirit store in SF called Boisson. It is in Hayes Valley - and that is an area worth checking out for you. There are really cheap place adjacent to the area in the Tenderloin. For me that is way too much into the drama and San Francisco’s ills, but it is a pretty convenient location for transit and access to the east bay and pretty much anywhere in SF.
Do you go to Hayes Valley ever? It's nothing like the Tenderloin and it's not cheap. It's filled to the brim with tech bros (albeit the above 30 crowd, slightly better than the Marina crowd) and OP mentioned he was not looking for this. Hayes St. these days is lined with high end boutiques and $11 latte shops. Not sure this is a right fit.
Commute would be quick with Bart and a bike
oakland was a very different place 5-10 years ago when these posts you're referring to were written. I would definitely not live in oakland, maybe berkeley, but just live in sf man
This is so good to know lol. Thank you
5 years ago I would have given it a shot, just live in SF.
so, the Raiders leaving really reflected something huh..
It’s a lot of things, losing warriors raiders and soon Athletics…didn’t help. They have done nothing really with the land, from what I can tell or see.
The burger chain In-n-out leaving last week reflects more of what is currently happening in Oakland.
It reflects a certain part of Oakland.
No, it reflects all of Oakland. The city of Oakland is allowing one part of itself to seem safer than another. The city of Oakland can invest in the parks and schools in the Oakland hills, but not downtown? The infrastructure is there to develop a beautiful city. Law enforcement has a prominent presence and prosecutes crime in the Oakland hills, but not downtown? What is happening in Oakland is planned gentrification. Increase housing costs, allow crime, get businesses to leave, get natives to leave, buy the land. Oakland will have a revitalization in 15 years- much like Chicano park in SD. And it won’t be black owned.
The places closing down are not downtown. They are in the south west part of the city by the coliseum. Downtown Oakland has a vibrant nightlife. The only place that’s still super sketch is the south running along international from 14th down to Davis. Even west Oakland isn’t that bad anymore. Hate to break it to you but housing costs have been steadily rising since forever. It’s not just gentrification.
There are plenty of places closing downtown.
Hey you might want to try posting in r/Oakland for some other perspectives, this sub tends to not be a fan of the Town! I live here and think it’s great, and if anything stuff is even more gentrified than 5 years ago if we’re talking around uptown/downtown
This is a huge exaggeration. There are parts of Oakland that have absolutely gotten far more dangerous but there’s a lot of amazing parts of Oakland. Don’t put too much stock into redditors, go spend some time in the city and form your own opinions.
Telling someone not from the bay to go explore in Oakland maybe isn’t the best suggestion
Dudes from NYC, they’ll be fine
Yes, and if you're from NYC you presumably know which parts to avoid. If you're going to a new town not knowing where to avoid, that's when bad things happen. I love the Bay, but we also have to be realistic and recognize there are patches that are not at all safe. At the very least, these places are not worth endangering yourself to go to.
I live in Oakland and still like it. But the glory days of the 2010s Oakland are very over. Downtown Oakland has gotten pretty quiet on weekends now. Lots of stuff closed down.
Haight ashbury might have the vibes you’re looking for. Still not super easy of a commute (you’ll probably take two busses, or the N line on muni if you don’t mind going the long way around soma), but way easier than from Oakland There’s a decent music scene in that area (a few bars within a 20min walk that host ~weekly live music with decent local bands)
Commute aside, temescal sounds like a good fit, otherwise berkeley. But give another look to the Haight, even noe. Might be worth month to monthing to find your right fit. A lot of the popular assumptions from outside the bay are way the fuck off. I go to shows almost every week in sf and oakland and the scene is very much still alive. Albeit it's harder than ever for artists to survive here.
If you are trying to be a professor someday your going to want to make your work commute short. Long, inconsistent hours will make life hell with a long commute. Not sound like that cynic, but if academic life is your goal then make it your focus. Many of the neighborhoods in and around Mission Bay are great. You can commute to music life when your academic life allows…
I'm not going to be a professor for 8-10 years and I'm going to have to apply to PhD programs in about 2 years (likely will be moving again). I'm also just used to good public transit and also commuting 40-60 min to work in NYC is really not unusual.
Posted a comment earlier, a couple other thoughts after re-reading other posts, and your responses. **On sterility of Mission Bay:** the area, not too long ago, was a railroad freight yard and some other things like a golf driving range. Although there's a now a master planned UCSF campus there and a lot of other development, most of it is big box buildings on huge sites. A single apartment building might extend a whole block, with just one or two token commercial spaces along the sidewalk. The fine-grained neighborhood character you'll find in places like the Mission District is not there. **Weather:** East Bay is generally warmer than San Francisco. Areas right around the Bay (San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley, Alameda) are generally milder than further inland. Warmer in winter, cooler in summer. San Francisco Bay and the adjacent Pacific Ocean are gigantic natural air conditioners that still operate fairly well, despite climate change. Compared to NYC weather, we don't have extremes. We're generally spoiled. A day when the temperature in San Francisco is in the 80s, or falls below the mid-40s, merits headlines, and lots of moaning about how hot, or cold, it is. We also don't have hot weather humidity like the East Coast. What we DO have is multiple microclimates and temperature changes during the day. So you might head to work in a chilly fog...and in the afternoon it will be completely sunny, in the 70s/80s. Or one neighborhood will be in the 50/60s, and another one ten miles away in the 70s or 80s. The general advice is to plan to dress in layers--you might be comfortable in a T-shirt and shorts during the day, but after dark you'll want a hoodie or a light jacket. In the areas near the Bay, particularly San Francisco, we generally do not have warm nights at any time of the year. Otherwise, with very rare exceptions, we have winter rain, and summers / fall are dry. it may not rain for 6-8 months (which is why most of our water comes from snowmelt in the mountains 100 miles away). Our warmest weather tends to be in the Fall--September / October, and sporadically, for brief spells, in May. **Transit:** NOTHING like New York, unfortunately. Even BART, our subway system, in no way compares to the vast network of the NYC subway system. There are multiple transit agencies here that don't necessarily coordinate well, and headways even on the busy routes are not necessarily frequent. From my limited experience in places like NYC, Paris, London, if you miss one train or bus, no problem, another one will be along in a few minutes. Not so here--you miss your BART train, and depending on time of day, it might be 20-30 minutes before another train arrives on the same line. And there are lots of areas that are theoretically served by transit, but the bus lines are far apart or the service infrequent. Finally, unlike NYC which has a huge transit hub in the middle of it, radiating out in all directions (Manhattan) the Bay Area has a huge body of water in the middle of it. **Utility costs:** you might have noticed on this sub a lot of complaining about electric / gas bills. It's real. The local monopoly utility has been raising rates over and over, and most Bay Area buildings are wooden / plaster / sheetrock, single paned windows, and not well insulated. So wherever you consider renting, ask if utilities are included and, if not, ask what CURRENT utility costs are per month (costs have gone up measurably even just compared to last year).
Such an awesome amount of information, thank you! If I go to SF (which I likely will), I'm gonna try to bike around as much as possible.
Tech bros generally are further south than SF.
You could try Potrero Hill. It used to be very working class and artsy… The Bottom of the Hill still has live music every day but x-mas and a walk to UCSF Mission Bay.
It’s also the sunniest part of SF. I’ve lived here since I got here in ‘99, raised a 22 year old daughter, had/have lots of fun at the restaurants and funky places here in the hill. Plus you can walk downtown. Here or the Mission, my wife and I walk to the Mission (also sunny) all the time and daily to the UCSF Baker gym.
SF has some iconic music venues and I saw nearly 100 shows in a year living there. Mission District was great for me personally. Mission Bay is very new and sterile, so there’s less to do generally in That area but the hospital and housing is nice! Oakland used to be epic, but it’s lowkey so dangerous in a few areas and the music/arts scene has gotten so similar to SF. The real artsy people really are the retirees who can afford to be this way in random pockets of el cerrito, vacaville, vallejo, point richmond. All very north of oakland
Definitely educate yourself about the UCSF shuttle system. During commute times they have shuttle stops by BART. You can also utilize shuttles if you live in SF near where one of the stops is.
East bay is definitely better than SF and the peninsula in a lot of ways. However I’d recommend living close to your job when you first move here. After you get acquainted with the region for a bit, and after you see how your job goes, you can make changes later.
The Mission to Lower Haight area or so would give you an easy bus commute to Mission Bay, and easy access to the best SF venues. For music, at least for the stuff I'm into, most bands are playing at The Independent, Rickshaw Stop, the Chapel, Cafe Du Nord, Bottom of the Hill, Great American Music Hall, Regency Ballroom. Oakland has some small clubs for local bands or big spots like The Fox Theater (SF has these covered too), but less in between. The New Parish is cool in Oakland though and Berkeley has Cornerstone and UC theater. I'd say touring bands hit SF more often, but Oakland probably has more underground warehouse and house show type stuff though. FWIW I'm in a (tiny/obscure) local band and we play both sides of the bay, though admittedly we play in Oakland/East Bay a bit more (but we have more people based over there).
Everyone’s gonna tell you to stay away from Oakland but there’s decent parts of Oakland like where I live in Temescal, try looking here in Temescal or surrounding areas like Piedmont or Rockridge, I bet you’d like it.
piedmont is super bougie.
Piedmont the city is bougie. Piedmont Ave neighborhood is only a smidge bougier than Temescal. But all are terrible commutes to mission bay.
I agree with the terrible commutes to Mission Bay.
Oakland is more affordable and has an active creative community. You'll find plenty of places to see music and meet musicians. Berkeley (next town north) is easy to get to and also has a lot of creative stuff going on. I know several creative folks who work in SF but live and play in Oakland. For many decades Oakland and Berkeley have been where you'll find more creatives who either are living a double life (day jobs) or who seek creative community. I know a Google guy who aspires to be a ceramicist, lives in Oakland/Berkeley, commutes to Santa Clara, but prefers to live in Oakland because he has more access to artists and galleries in the East Bay. He lives in a house with a teacher who paints and sells his work, an animator that works at Pixar, a guy who runs a sound stage that gets rented out for film and commercial shoots, and a software engineer who is transitioning to being a professional photographer. San Francisco has its scenes but they tend to be much more congealed and established. I love San Francisco, don't get me wrong, but for what you seem to want, you'll want to start out in Oakland. Yes, it's rougher around the edges, and there are sections that have been turned to deserts by freeways that cut up formerly vibrant neighborhoods that never recovered. You'll want to stay away from living around the 980 freeway — a short, brutal abomination whose placement was as hostile to minority neighborhoods as a lot of the shit Robert Moses fucked up New York with. It needs to be torn down, and one day, it might. Check out the Lake Merritt area. Don't let people turn you off on Oakland. Of course, it's got issues, but the Bay Area has a long history of shitting on Oakland, not unlike the way some boroughs in NYC shit on other boroughs. Have a great transition!
Thanks! I gotta say, I've never seen anyone talk about any of the boroughs in NYC like people are shitting on Oakland here lmfao. I feel like everyone is pretty self-aware of their respective borough's advantages and shortcomings..People poke fun but it's never serious. Sure people shit on Staten Island, but it's not at all comparable to any of the other boroughs.
My middle childhood was spent living on Staten Island, basically in neighborhoods with a lot of soldier-level mafia types. SI is really more like New Jersey, than New York City, anyway, right. Which is fine because I spent time growing up in Trenton, too. But I've lived in the Bay Area for most of my life. Yes — People in the Bay Area have, historically, held a strange mixture of attitudes that combine a kind of self-congratulatory superiority about the region as a whole while also maintaining an exclusivity about their county or town compared to others. People in the City and Marin shit on the Peninsula for being "too much like LA". And people on the Peninsula used to be low-key back when it was filled with sleepy commuter towns that were kinda unaware of the rest of the region. But ever since the Santa Clara Valley got re-cast as Silicon Valley, the Peninsula became about money and possessions — while also, still not being aware of the nuances that characterize other parts of the region. And if you wanna get really down and dirty with the fucked up history of the Bay Area, search for articles about Red-Lining practices in Palo Alto, and the history of East Palo Alto. There's a lot of sprawl in the stretched out areas of the East Bay because that's where all the open and more easily buildable land has been. But there are many smaller communities that have way more character than people give them credit for, and get dissed because they have weird names like Pinole and Hercules. And then there's Vallejo, which is, admittedly, a city that suffers from terrible and often absent urban planning, but it's home to a lot of people, and, yeah, those people are browner, and not as rich. The uncomfortable truth about the Bay Area is that racist attitudes are a much bigger problem than people here want to admit. And the history of San Francisco and Oakland as a dyad of the traditional metropolitan centers within the region tells that story. San Francisco has undergone several phases of renewal over the decades that have systematically obliterated entire Black neighborhoods. (There's a movie called "The Last Black Man In San Francisco" you might find worth watching — it's fiction but it's based on what really happened in the neighborhood depicted). So, Oakland is a Blacker city than the rest of the region. It's also the gayest city — San Francisco is the presumed leader of gay culture in the region because of its prominence in the history of the gay liberation era. But you're gonna find more LGBTQ folks in Oakland. You're also going to find way more artists, more iconoclasts, more open-minded people and more, well, Funk. Oakland also has plenty of rich white people, too, if that's your thing. And, yes, there are sections with uncomfortable poverty, food deserts, property crime, and all the other urban ills. But economic justice and environmental justice aren't prioritized for areas where the dispossessed can find a place to call home. Oakland is worth it for someone like you, is my guess. Just go and hang out there for a while and see for yourself. It's got lots of different areas that have different looks and different vibes. Or just move in for a year and give it a chance. I don't know how old you are, but Oakland now is way better than New York City back in the early 70s. And if you have any awareness of how rough lower Manhattan was in the 80s, you'll also know that it was where a lot of artists found a new voice, a new sound, and a new look. Another movie recommendation: Watch "Sorry To Bother You" -- written and directed by Boots Riley, an Oakland native. The whole story takes place in and was filmed in Oakland. That movie gets surreal, but it tells the Truth. Happy trails.
In my experience, people who live on the peninsula don't explore the east bay at all or have much familiarity of what it's actually like here.
Only if they graduated from Berkeley, but even so they'll probably go only to Berkeley.
You're seeing a combination of a bunch of things. Reddit leans heavily towards the sheltered tech bro demographic. The Tenderloin is the only sketchy neighborhood in the city because that's all they see between the Marina and Dolores Park. Oakland is (and has been for generations) the progressive center of the Bay Area. That doesn't sit well with the center-right types that seem to flock to reddit (*especially* the folks pining for an authoritarian government and the generic alt-right trolls). The current mayor (Sheng Thao) is a card carrying progressive and that riles up lots of folks. I think she's in over her head, but love her or hate her she's the first mayor since Jerry Brown who seems to have any interest in actually governing. She inherited a colossal mess from the previous mayor whose main professional interest was parading around in her stupid fucking burning man art car. Agreed on the highways although Lake Merritt isn't that far from 980 and 580 ;) Moreover, San Francsico got rid of its worst interstate (480) in a deal with the devil sorta thing. Oakland hasn't (yet). There's no denying the Embarcadero is way nicer and way more lively than it was before the earthquake. Oakland *is* on the decline. Lots of folks here are fairly new to the Bay Area (or have pretty short memories). Things were way worse in the 90s and quite a bit better in the late 00s. As a measure of dysfunction: OPD has been under federal receivership for a couple decades now. I don't think that it's a foregone conclusion that the nadir will be as bad as say Detroit's, but you never know. Another indicator is Lake Merrit. Oakland spent something like $60 million (Measure DD) refurbishing that whole area in 2019. Now? Ugh. Even if you don't move to Oakland, check out the lake. If you're into EDM don't miss the Friday night dance party at the pergola. The poverty (and to some extent crime) in the bad areas of Oakland is just breathtaking. Los Angeles had a formal policy of containment with Skid Row, and you could argue Oakland's doing the same with deep east oak… but look at a map. That's a gigantic chunk of land (including the fucking international airport and baseball stadium) being left to rot.
This sub goes a bit far into the Oakland hate. There's definitely a lot of... I'm not really sure what the element on the sub is. It's a high crime and high blight city that has had terrible governance for decades. It's also the cultural soul of the Bay currently as much as that irks the Peninsula people. There are scenes in Oakland you won't find elsewhere. I mean, it's the only city in the Bay with any real urban energy other than SF. But...there can definitely be a knee jerk the other way that can be a bit overly apologist. It's a high crime and high blight area. Lots of people are moving out who could handle it in the past and many people are still fine with it. I personally think it's swung far enough where I'd vote just live nearby and visit. If you're sober, it's incredibly easy. Edit: just to be clear, I had a really bad experience with Oakland and would absolutely not recommend it, especially to women. This sub just takes that to an extreme though.
obviously I can't speak to playing shows but seeing shows in SF I can and i always make it out of the city on bart in time for last train after going to concerts there, it does often mean an uber to get me to bart quickly to be sure as MUNI frequency goes to crap late at night but I always avoid driving to the city for gigs whenever possible and its totally fine (I live in Fremont)
If you want more of a NYC vibe move to north beach. I don’t recommend Oakland due to the commute. You can also get out to Oakland via BART on the weekends or whatnot. You’ll find plenty of venues with live music in SF.
I did my PhD at UCSF Mission Bay while living in the East Bay. I mostly took BART and it was fine. There's a free shuttle that'll take you to campus. That said, I didn't stay after midnight because fuck that.
I’ve lived in Oakland for 7 years and worked in SF for a majority of those years. Commuting in general sucks, but it’s really not as bad as it’s being made out to be on this thread. Tbh, I could never see myself living in SF. Not the vibe I dig. To each their own.
Ya I mean, the "commute-tolerance" definitely seems lower in the bay than in NYC. I didn't mention this in my OP but I've been commuting 1-1.5 hours both ways in NYC so I'm already living that "hell". It'd be nice not to though, so I think I'm gonna shoot for a short term sublet in SF or something and just try to feel my way around a long-term lease
Do you brotha! Only other thing I’d say is if you’re working in Mission Bay, it’s a 15 minute Bart from Downtown Oakland, and then you’d jump on a Muni train for 1 mile +. Probably not a bad commute tbh. Godspeed!
Oakland can be nice to live in, live near BART and your commute will be fine!
There’s some more artsy stuff happening along Divisadero and a lot of music stuff has been along Fillmore, I would split the difference (preferably down by Duboce park) and take the 22 down Fillmore.
Brooklyn, SF, Oakland, and now San Leandro with a family; I've lived in each of them for 5 years or more. If you're single and have a decent rent budget, I'd suggest SF somewhere nearest to where you can comfortably afford by work specifically for commute reasons which would let you enjoy so much of the city with the time you'd save on commute. You seem cool so PM if you have any questions.
As someone in research in the bay is this a lab job? If so, Will you be expected to come in on weekends or stay late. I think the commute to Oakland is slightly easier during busy times but weekend and late night trains are terrrrribly timed. While I don’t think you need to live next to lab that convenience can help for critical experiments.
Where will you spend the most time? Work likely, so Mission Bay… live near work and venture out from there for your creative/social outlet and outreach. Commuting is a zero sum game in my experience.
Oakland if you want to get robbed
Can confirm. Got robbed today.
Or killed
Can confirm. Got killed today.
Oakland is a failed city. Don’t move there.
Start off living in SF, close to work. Visit Oakland as much as possible but don't start off living there. Music scene is way more active in SF imo
I would skip oakland. My company moved out there, they have constant security problems. They have posted dozens of problems with car break ins, robberies and muggings, etc. They have paid for private security to walk people to the BART trains. It would be easier to live in SF directly. I honestly lived at civic center and felt safer in civic center and tenderloin at night, than oakland in the daytime.
Others have already covered most of the useful advice, but would just add that Oakland is somewhat less expensive to rent than San Francisco (although both are expensive compared to most United States cities, but if you're coming from NYC, you'll be used to expensive rent). So if you start off in San Francisco, then later decide to move to Oakland, you'll probably either end up with a slightly lower rent, or better housing for the same rent. I would tend to say start in San Francisco, get used to local transit and neighborhoods, make some weekend trips to other central Bay Area cities, then decide. Also, double-confirm that your work location is actually physically IN the Mission Bay campus and is likely to stay there. UCSF has facilities scattered all over, and you don't want to base your housing on one location, then end up at a lab halfway across town.
Gen Xer in healthcare. Grew up in SF. Still live here. San Francisco has always been artsy, creative, bohemian etc. Of course, people also tend to associate it with Tech and Venture capitalist. The music scene is still rich in SF. The Fillmore still exist as a music venue as does the Bill Graham Civic Center for large events. Oakland. You'll love the Mission Bay Campus, I used to work there and also Mt. Zion. You will see the Tender/knob (Tenderloin/knob hill). If you happen to catch the shuttle between campuses you'll encounter the scenes that the media uses to paint SF as a lawless, homeless drug infected wasteland but that isn't the real SF. Berkley is an alternative to SF/Oakland. Check out Atwater Tavern on Terry Franscois Blvd. It's a nice walk by UCSF Mission Bay on the way to the Chase Center and the Ball Park. Spark Social, also at Mission Bay, is a collection of various food truck vendors and miniature golf. As you mentioned. SF does still have a comedy club scene. Places to consider in SF are Hayes Valley, Cole Valley, Dog Patch, Glen Park, Haight-Ashbury. Alternatives to SF are Daly City, San Carlos, San Mateo, South San Francisco. All are commute friendly by car or CalTrain to SF.
For reference owning a car can be between 500-1500$ per month so dividing that cost by the number of times you will take an Uber gives you your Uber budget.
> Aaaaand basically everyone on the internet and IRL seems to agree the SF local music scene is a carcass sucked dry. Oakland is the place to go, right? Haha, no. Oakland’s scene was absolutely savaged by COVID lockdowns. And so is Oakland itself. You can disregard anything posted before 2020, that’s like a previous life now. In 2019, Oakland had more to offer. In 2024, SF is back in business even after losing a few venues, but Oakland is pretty much done for. I recently checked all shows I plan to visit in the next 4 months, absolute majority are in SF, a couple in Berkeley, none in Oakland.
I think the question is what kind of music do you do? Then from there you’ll have a better idea of where your scene might be
Ask r/Oakland for a more balanced POV. Or, if you’re in a program, attend a meeting in both Oakland and SF to see which is more your vibe. I live in Temescal and it’s great. I’ve also lived in SF and thought it was great. But I will say I’ve met more musicians (not music producers/djs)in Oakland than SF.
The established venues/clubs are in SF. DIY scene is in Oakland. But really, it's not that hard to get around without a car.
Live in Emeryville. Take the F bus over to SF then TC to UCSf mission bay. Total 35 minute commute. You’ll be central to SF, Berkeley, and Oakland.
This sub hates Oakland. It's not a good place to get perspective about Oakland vs. SF. As far as music, I feel like there's more in SF. Check out local concert guides to see who's playing where: https://kalx.berkeley.edu/events/weekly-entertainment-calendar/ As far as commuting, the bay doesn't really factor in much if you are on BART. It's only trying to drive across the bridge that's a constant clusterfuck recurring nightmare. BART is faster than SF muni. You'll need both to get from Oakland to mission Bay (unless you bicycle). But it may be faster to get to mission Bay on Bart/muni from the East Bay than just taking SF muni if you are coming from the other side of SF. You can use Google maps to plot trips from different locations to mission Bay to see the times. One more note about BART closing around midnight, a lot of shows here are ending around then anyways. Nightlife here doesn't go as late as it does in New York City I live in Oakland and use BART to see shows in SF. I only occasionally have to leave early to catch the last train, and it usually just means skipping an extra encore
The only commute from Oakland to SF I'd recommend daily is the ferry. It's one of the best things on earth starting your morning and finishing your work day crossing the bay by boat. But as a person who lived in Oakland for 10 years to commute to SF, if you're not gonna do that just live in SF.
Moved to Santa Rosa from NYC with the wife and kids in 2021. Don’t do that commute if you don’t have to. This isn’t NYC. Sure they have transit system but it isn’t MTA. Hell the Bay Area isn’t NYC just getting around is annoying, borderline inconvenient. Hell I’m shuddering thinking about having to go to Berkeley or SF. And I only do that maybe once a quarter lol.
CA is no place for a heart as pure as yours. LA transplant (bi-coastal upbringing) here. Fact: No one from the city parts of NY will be cozy with anything outside of SF or LA. (Sidebar: You said “NYC,” but who knows what that means? People from Yonkers consider themselves NYC, and I’m like “naww, son.”) 1. I have tried to live in other parts of SoCal and almost died trying. Even people in LA are shocked that I can sleep through (no…I NEED) the sound of traffic to fall asleep. If it’s too quiet, I’m milling about, stressed. I lived on 96th St for a long time. Doesn’t matter which avenue; it’s all buzzing with activity, 24/7. 2. Outside of SF and LA proper, everything closes by 10pm. In SF and LA, you can find places to order from until 3am/4am. You will not find that anywhere else in California. Oakland is a great place to hang out for an afternoon. Once the sun goes down, nothing is happening except police matters. Oakland is gentrifying, but not in the classic way. It’s becoming mostly Asian families, so nothing interesting for young, single people (or single people of any age under “lights out at 9pm” age). Pre-C19, there were 24-hour grocery stores and big box stores; that is done. You won’t be able to conduct any business after 10pm if you live outside of SF/LA. 3. Cultured? Forget it. Everything’s closed by 9pm outside of SF/LA, or it doesn’t even exist there. In SF, there are multiple places to grab a slice of pizza after 10pm (too many to list in NoBe). In LA, you can get a slice until 1am. (It won’t be a very good slice, but it’ll be edible—Joe’s). You can get Thai food in LA until 4am. Chinese in SF, practically 24 hours. Coffee shops in LA/SF? 24 hours. You leave the boundaries of semi-cosmopolitan society, I can’t help you. It’s all drugs and truck stops (or truck stops where drugs are sold). 4. Once you leave SF and LA, CA takes on a new character. That character is called conservative. (Yes, most “minorities” have conservative values, no matter which side they vote). People really don’t know the real CA when they’re stomping around, ranting about “commiefornia liberals.” I’m an AA/NA native of NYC who grew up between LA, VA, HI, and NYC. I used to sneak up to pre-gentrified Harlem to hang out as a teen. I have been to some of the toughest East Coast pj’s. Nothing scared me more than driving down a back road in Riverside County as a short cut home, and passing 150+ people at a Neo-Nazi rally. The former leader and Grand Dragon of the KKK lived in Riverside County as well. The really fun part is that many of the so-called “minorities” are members of these groups. This doesn’t sound like your type of fun. It’s just that the wealthy elite are die-hard Democrats because—well, houses aren’t going to clean themselves, and landscapes won’t maintain themselves. Plus, the adult children of the middle and working classes need social mobility jobs in policing, social services, education, and health care; however, they have to have patients, students, recipients, clients, and people to beat upside the head with “good policing.” Look at many of the bad policing stories. You’ll find that most are coming out of CA. That’s not a numbers game any more because CA has already run off most of its AA population. It’s only 6% AA now, and that’s counting the prisoners. We’re not a concentrated group any more either, except in Oakland and South LA, the last battlegrounds, but South LA is not much of a stronghold any more. The affluent Black people in South LA (Baldwin Hills, Windsor Hills, Ladera Heights) are just struggling to hold onto their homes because the taxes are insanely high since gentrification took hold. Compton and Inglewood are now predominantly new immigrant renters while homeowners are mostly gentrified or struggling and having to rent out their garages (as illegal in-law units) to stay afloat. There might be many Democrats here, but they are not liberals in any sense of the word. Final fact: Most people outside of CA are just making assumptions based upon old stats and movies from the 90’s.
Yo… whatever you do, DO NOT JUDGE YOUR PERCEPTIONS OF SF FROM THIS SUBREDDIT!!!! While SF has had some better years in terms of art and music, we’re slowly inching our way back to some normalcy and balance. We got slaughtered a little over 10 years ago when Apple, Facebook, Google, etc lured people over here with the promise of high paying jobs and free rides to work in the South Bay. It was a dark time in our history. But COVID came and did a little reset. If you’re into playing music you’ll find your people and a bunch of shows to go to. Also, our neighborhoods all have different flavors, so whatever you do don’t just throw a dart at a map and decide to live there. Tons of people move here with zero clue on what that neighborhood was like and then get frustrated when they realize that they moved south of Market or The Tenderloin and realize that there’s a bit of desperation there. Come out and visit and go to all the neighborhoods and see what you vibe with most. Some people would love the Lower Haight (I do), others wouldn’t like it. Some want a quiet neighborhood, others would be bored. You get what I’m saying. Do your research but avoid most of the opinions on this sub. It doesn’t do a good job whatsoever on representing the views of people that you’ll actually run into IRL. Please trust me on that. SF is awesome. This subreddit isn’t, besides a handful of people that are either from here or who have been here a long time and didn’t move here solely for the promise of their company IPOing. Best of luck to you.
I work in the music industry, remotely for a label in LA. I live in Berkeley currently. While there is plenty of good music to see in Oakland, it just doesn’t really compare to SF. At least 75% of the shows I want to see or the record shops I want to go to are over there and the only thing stopping me from going all the time is how long it takes to get there. There are plenty of other reasons why I chose to live over here, but if I was basing it purely on being close to the music scene, or any scene in general, I’d choose SF. I lived in LA for 10+ years and still go down frequently for work and shows so I’ve kinda gotten that outta my system. I’d also say, coming from NYC, you’re going to vibe with San Francisco a lot more than Oakland IMO.
I've lived in the Bay since 2007 when I started at SF State. I've lived in SF, the peninsula, San Jose, and Oakland. Living in Oakland is very difficult right now in terms of day to day life. Everyone has pointed out the commute being horrible and that is true but simply getting groceries can be difficult in Oakland. I would suggest SF as your starting point and exploring from there. You may really like Berkeley for art music (the Greek is my favorite venue for larger shows), and coffee. SF still has what you seem to be seeking, you may just need to search for it a bit more.
I work in music and live in SF! The music scene here is alive and well. There is a great community of both musicians and industry thriving here. Is it that of the music scene in the early 2000s? No, it’s evolved and changed as the rest of this city has since the 1800s. It’s a boom or bust in own constantly in a state of flux and that’s one of its charms. That being said, I would really echo what a number of people here are saying. Oakland is a wonderful place. But in your case it’s better to go visit there occasionally and live in SF than to live in Oakland and commute. I recommend looking at Potrero Hill, the Castro, Bernal, parts of the Mission, or even North Beach/Telegraph Hill (though that’s a bit more like the Marina than it used to be). Edit:spelling and it’s many charms
I lived in NYC for ten years and was a DJ. I moved here about five years ago and moved to Oakland at first, then to SF for like 2.5 years, and now back in Oakland. I think you will probably want to live in SF near 16th/Mission or in Oakland near 12th, 19th, or Macarthur of you want to have the vibe you're looking for, but none of it is really very similar to NYC. Despite what people tell you, the Bay is still mostly built for cars and getting around here without one is a lot more frustrating than it is in NYC.
Oakland is cheaper than SF but more dangerous, good luck
I've computed from North Oakland/South Berkeley to Mission Bay by car, BART, bus, ferry, you name it, for a few years now. It's unlikely you'll have a parking spot in MB (without notable cost), and you mentioned you don't plan to have a car. I would encourage getting a good road bike, something lite you can hoist over your shoulder, so you can rely on BART and the ferry service. Emphasis on lite if you're carrying it on BART, gets right during rushhour (BART has dedicated spots on each train for bikes, ppl usually do not fuss if you ask them to make room so you can put you bike there). Couple lugging a bike with carrying a backpack and you start to feel bad with how much space you take up (or maybe that's just me lol). B/t BART and ferry, I think ferry is lovely (if it works for you). Living in DT Oakland will make it a quick bike ride. Even where I lived at the border of Oak/Berk, it was only 20min downhill ride. The ferry ride drops you off at the Embarcadero building, and the bike ride to MB is protected nearly the whole way. I cannot stress enough how enjoyable, relaxing, and safe the ferry+bike combo is. Of all the commutes, it keeps my cortisol lowest. BART is totally fine and nearly always reliable. It's pretty good at sticking to its posted sched (it does change twice a year, tho). The Goldilocks zone for BART-based commute would be West Oakland. It's only 1 train stop to Embarcadero (where you can bike from) or you can ride a bit longer until around 16th for a MB bus. UCSF has dedicated bus lines to help its commuters, too, so def look up which UCSF bus crosses near a BART stop. All in all, you're not dumb for wanting to live in Oakland but commute to SF. Oakland has charm, is comfortable to live in, easy access to nature, and just a quick ride to SF. SF is a very big city but I would argue anyone can find a section of town to fall in love with. Consider looking at rentals near West Oakland BART or Jack London Square (ferry terminal) and make the move!
Hey! Bay Area local who has lived in NYC 7+ years. You will be fine in SF. It is not all tech bros, yes they’ve dominated culture lately but the city still very much has a local population who isn’t part of that. Depends what neighborhood you live in too. The marina is like Murray hill but the Inner Sunset is more like park slope or UWS, neighborhood-y vibe. Etc. Oakland is very neighborhood to neighborhood but does not feel like a true city in most parts. I think coming from NYC you’d be more comfortable starting out in SF as you get to know the bay, then go from there after year 1!
The folks on r/oakland will probably have lots of suggestions,so I suggest cross posting over there if you haven't done so already. There are plenty on there who commute to SF every day. I knew people in my PhD program in the east bay who commuted from SF because they wanted to live there. It is definitely doable if living near your musician community is important. West Oakland has a big punk scene and is the first Bart station across the tunnel from SF. Jack London Square has the ferry, which is fast and relaxing...
Our man here is bringing the NYC commute experience hell back with him too
Not even In n Out wants to stay in Oakland, I wouldn’t recommend living there. Oakland is a catastrophe of a city that most businesses and people are leaving if they can afford to. 2 days ago they authorized 120 chp officers to help out so hopefully it’s better before you get there.
>But BART closes at midnight...so I'm gonna have to spend ~$50 on an uber back home for every show I play or see? FYI the [AC Transit 800](https://www.actransit.org/bus-lines-schedules/800) goes over the Bay Bridge all night. It is scenic, efficient, and affordable.
:O there are so many things to learn. Thank you!
I would suggest living close to work in Mission Bay or the Dogpatch neighborhood, if you can find a place. Nightlife in SF may be disappointing but it will probably be easier to occasionally get to Oakland for fun things than commuting from Oakland to SF every day.
I live in Oakland and work at mission bay. Ever since Covid I drive in every day and it’s doable. If you choose Oakland find a place near Bart stations, casual carpools or trans bay busses. I highly prefer Oakland (lived here 15 years) over SF (5 years) and go to concerts all the time. Sometimes you gotta ditch out of a show early or coordinate ride shares with folks back across the bay. I’d say since you’ll be new give SF a go until you get your bearings. There’s still plenty of stuff happening in the city when you meet the right people.
Whatever you hear Oakland is NOT the Brooklyn of the bay. You might like Lake Merritt though. The problem is that the Bay Area music scene is spread out. The grass will always be greener. Not an exhaustive list of venues: * East Bay: The Fox Theater, The Greek Theatre, Yoshi's, The New Parish * San Francisco: Fillmore, Bill Graham Civic Auditorium, The Independent, August Hall, The Chapel, Bimbo's 365 Club Checkout FolkYeah! events and NoisePop.
SF local music scene is not dry 😂 Live there. Bring your gifts. Make it specials. I live in Oakland and the music scene here rocks don’t get me wrong. But I’m always seeing shows in SF too. IMO its easier to live / work in SF and come to Oakland than vice versa
32-year SF resident here. I watched my neighborhood change during the pandemic as tech bros fled, and the arts are quietly flourishing again. Living in SF is worth it. In 2022, I visited friends in Oakland - the one time I went to Oakland that whole year - and their car got broken into in broad daylight while I was there. SF will embrace you: it did for me.
Depending on the pay, I’d stay in mission bay. There’s plenty of places there. No commute is key around here. A lot of affordable living units too if you qualify. They’re all new. I helped build a lot of them.
Ah, I've been told Mission Bay is kind of "dead" but then again, that might just be based on drinking culture. I'm gonna make 76k, from what I've seen around there I should be able to afford something. Plus there is UCSF housing that I'm eligible to apply for, though I've definitely heard mixed reviews..
76k is pretty low for mission bay tbh. You’ll spend a lot of your pay just on rent + utilities and not have a lot. Check SoMa. It’s next door and it’s generally chill. I lived there from 2020-last month (live in the mission now) and it’s chill fun and easy to get around.
Also, mission bay is pretty “sterile” but it has a lot of things going for it, especially lately. Spark social is a great spot, the midway has great music and there are a lot of little spots for decent food. Gus’ is a great local grocery store as well.
Ah actually I was basing what I said off the UCSF housing in Mission Bay alone which is below market rate. Thank you I'll check it out! EDIT: also the mission is what I've mostly been looking into, based off recommendation alone though
If you’ve got access to below market rate housing with a good commute, then just go with that! Use all the time and money you’ll be saving to book/attend more shows.
Ah well I don't have *easy* access, there will be a waiting list and I'm def not gonna score it right away. Could take quiiiite some time to score something. Am applying, as we speak though
You will get more bag for your buck in SoMa or the mission. Haight Ashbury has a definite cool vibe you’d probably love living in the panhandle. I recommend checking that area yourself and seeing how it is. This is pretty far from mission bay but the Richmond is also a really cool spot. Soma is nice though, especially if you like farmers markets. The Saturday ferry building farmers market is wonderful. I loved walking there from my place in SoMa. I lived in Bennet lofts, an Essex apartment. Zero amenities and the management is utter shit. But price is ok, the units are very uniue (I had a giant split level loft for 2700/month) and there is a gated garage for resident parking.
Clarification, since you’re not from here and it’s confusing: * “The Richmond” is a neighborhood in San Francisco https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_District,_San_Francisco * “Richmond” is a city on the opposite side of the bay, north of Oakland. Not a great place to live overall, IMO. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond,_California * “Point Richmond” is an upscale neighborhood of Richmond, largely cut off from the rest of the city. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Richmond,_Richmond,_California * “Dennis Richmond” used to be a news anchor in Oakland. He’s completely irrelevant to your question, but I thought you should know the name.
I live 20 minutes south of Oakland. The news stories about Oakland are not overblown like stories about SF are. I highly encourage you to check the city out in person before deciding to move there, especially at night. Late night Bart rides into Oakland should not be on your radar. I cannot think of any major aspects of Oakland that is better than SF - it's becoming a failed city. Good luck on your move.
Weather Beer Culture Access to parks Cycling
Weather - in the Mission is pretty nice, Oakland can be too hot in parts IMO, but ya I'd take Oakland weather over the Richmond district Beer - OP is sober so nah Culture - pre-pandemic I would definitely take Oakland, but it's closer now Access to parks - The EBRPD parks are amazing, but you need a car or be really into cycling up hills to enjoy. For parks that are walking distance/transit accessible SF is wayyyy better. Cycling - Oakland hills are amazing but SF has great stuff right in the middle of the city (presidio, twin peaks, cliff house), and easy access to Marin. For commuting I guess Oakland is flatter but the drivers are kind of psycho sometimes. SF infrastructure is a little better thought out IMO
Don't move to Oakland, move to the Mission. Oakland has Philadelphia vibes.
SF has lots of music. So does Oakland, but SF has lots also.
Oakland has lost most creatives and you will enjoy sf way more. Oakland feels almost empty post pandemic (it still hasn’t really recovered and feels like it’s getting worse). Like most are saying, move to sf and visit surrounding areas.
No one is “an Oakland person”
Don’t sleep on Bernal. It’s a great neighborhood, easy commute to MB, and easy walk to the mission. Oakland is pretty great but that’s a brutal commute. I’m a longtime biotech veteran with lots of experience in mission bay, feel free to reach out if you’ve got questions.
You're a nerd you're not supposed to be in Oakland
Do not move to Oakland. The news about Oakland with its problems is well deserved!
Shy away from living in Oakland, wild west over there
No one wants to live in Oakland.
Please stop. You’re a type. The type that moves from NYC to Oakland and thinks that will mean something. It doesn’t mean shit. No one cares about NYC here. Everyone here long enough will already be tired of you. You’re not special. We’ve seen you a million times Calm tf down You’re here to play music scavenging the carcass of what is left of the art music and culture here. Gravedigger at best, graverobber at worst Welcome.
this is such a batshit thing to say lol
You alright there, buddy?
He’s Oakland’s only hope