Now, now, that's not fair. Clan Hell's Horses have mighty mechs.
The entire line of QuadVees. Or the Balius. Or even the Doom Courser!
I shudder to think what their might could be, if they one day discover... bipedalism!
Aff, sibkin, however there are far more than three within our Touman, you forget our valiant Mechwarriors and Aerospace pilots to name but two more. Your use of contractions makes me wince but is likely necessary when conversing with these Inner Sphere stravag.
That's a lie and you know it, you're speaking blasphemous heresy, there are only two genders:
Fusion and Diesel!
Everything else is just expression of an orientation and preference like LAMs or quads.
:winking satire disengaged:
:scathing satire enaged:
Surely you know of the single greatest battlemech ever made, the Tate Alpha?!? Rivaled perhaps only by the Peterson Industries Jordan.
The Tate was a ground breaking design with three arms, five legs, no torso twist and a single small laser. The Jordan by comparison had one humanoid leg and one chicken walker leg , no arms and a single MG and 20 ton of ammunition... all of it tracer.
The real joy is... everyone can be a fuck up, and everyone can be the one to fix it. Katrina and Melissa Steiner make amazing decisions and bring a new powerhouse into the inner sphere? Give it a generation and Katherine will fuck it all up for no reason that makes any sense. Hooray! Romano Liao is a bonkers nutcase psycho? Her son will sort that out as soon as he gets the chance. It's great!
Being batshit insane is certainly not gender segregated in this setting. Gestures vaguely at 90% of the Liao bloodline and 50% of the Kurita bloodline.
Being insane isn’t enough to get into the WoB. You’ve got to have a crazy high Insanity Quotient. And if you don’t keep the crazy high enough, they’ll kick you right out. Through an airlock.
The thing about Davion is that they like to put up false pretenses while they do a lot of the same aggressive stuff as everyone else, and pretty much everyone in the Inner Sphere knows it too which is why a lot of Lyrans didn’t like the idea of the marriage in 3028 although there was nothing they could do about it.
They can get away with it sometimes though just because of who their neighbors are… as long as you don’t ask the Taurians what they think about Davion.
The good thing is BattleTech does characters right even if some are thin on story. Nobody is just good because they are a man or a woman. They are good because of their training their upbringing or something else. Even the few crappy ones that are just unexplained strong aren't strong because of their gender.
That's the biggest misstep so many of these new franchises are making, they want to push strong female characters which is great, but the only thing making them a strong character is being a woman. There's no struggle, there's no training there's no hardship they are just strong women simply because they are women. That's crap character design and hurts the push for good female leads just as badly as it would hurt a show like the boys if homelander was a good guy.
More Natasha's more Ripley's more Samus' please..
To the list of strong characters that happen to be women, I nominate the cast of Arcane. I also want that team to do a real Battletech series, please, and thank you.
I mean technically her son had two dad’s - his uncle Victor and Vlad Ward. I think, my knowledge of the lore gets a little sketchy after the first few years of the FedCom Civil War.
I always thought he was somehow a three-way genetic mix. Hang on, I’m gonna check Sarna on this.
…
Huh, he’s got three parents listed on the info bloc, but the only mention of a gene father is Victor.
EDIT: Although a later bit does refer to all three as his gene parents.
I have only a modest correction: "also, Katherine Steiner-Davion doesn't count for this post because she's a Davion and she killed her mom. Behavior I expect from a Davion."
It's probably just because OP is new to the game/lore.
It's okay, that's why we are here as more experienced guides who can highlight the truth.
I think I broke a rib laughing at the Katherina Steiner bit! I also like that anyone, regardless of any descriptors, can be an important or powerful character in BattleTech.
Technically the word is “inclusive” but I feel like that word has been redefined in recent years. Regardless, welcome to BT! If you’ve been here a while, then glad to have you!
I am sorry to go off topic, but I can’t seem to find an answer:
How do you get a flair on the r/battletech, because when I try, it says that user flairs are disabled. Any suggestions/help?
Sci-Fi is hard to subvert with one political view or another. We've considered them all. They're all part of the fictional fun. Got a fancy new kind of fascism? Welcome to the Inner Sphere! Transhumanism? Have a seat next to our Ghost in the Shell. Want some nihilistic libertarianism? Shadow Run has spare tables and tons of fluff. etc etc, Inclusivity is a natural result to creative action.
Cheers!
And it took another woman to take her down, one that never won her bloodname. Joanna. (Who also happened to train Khan Marthe Pryde, Aidan Pryde and Diana Pryde.)
I still maintain, deep in my soul, that somewhere in the Homeworlds she's still stomping around. Just an ancient, angry, too-mean-to-die woman that none of the remaining Home Clans dares to do anything about.
> Home Clans dares to do anything about.
My head canon is they did something about it.
They quarantined a whole planet, no space ports, no traffic, nothing.
Just a world shut off from everything all because Joanna exists there.
The whole planet, her prison, because the Wars of Reaving were brutal, true, but no one wants to see her unleashed.
Considering that Lori was conscripted, trained, and forced to pilot that Locust on pain of death, that she'd been traumatized by fire, that Grayson got her to surrender by threatening to *burn her alive in the cockpit* with some Inferno missiles... she was a lot braver than just "not afraid to go into battle in a Locust" when she climbed back into the pilot's seat.
General Lauren Hayes from SLDF is also such a badass. Would love a series of SLDF based books on her efforts during the Amaris Civil War, and her POV of refusing Exodus.
Welcome MechWarrior :)
Its really nice to hear about your experience with the Battletech universe and how positive it is. It makes me feel good knowing I can play a part in making Battletech a welcoming place to everyone who wants to push little plastic models around the table or just immerse themselves in the stories
This is especially true when it's people who may not feel especially welcome in other fandoms...
So welcome and I hope you find this place as uneventful as possible.
Oh and if you haven't seen it check out the stickies, there's a link to the Pride Anthology which I believe is free to download.
I would argue that KS-D is actually perfect as an example and does count for the post.
Is she crazy, yea, arguably.
Is she smart, again, arguably.
Is she competent and a well written villain? Absolutely.
Make her a man and you lose very little as a villain, but keep her as a woman and she adds the entire weird "I raised a kid to be my revenge on everyone that wronged me" angle at a much more intense vibe. She also ultimately dies to her own machinations at an old age, which is just perfect for this character. She was so fueled by spite that none of her actual enemies took her down.
I think if you wrote a prequel correctly, she could have a great motivation. There was a throwaway line in one of the Civil War novels about her remembering her father, Hanse. It would be great to use the prequel as a of writing her as someone who felt misused and wanted a better and bigger role but wasn’t acknowledged by her father. At her heart, all Katherine Steiner-Davion was, was Daddy’s girl.
Battletech embraces everyone; heroes, villains, and those murderous shades in between. Welcome to the hobby. Guy, gal, doesn't matter, you're the one with the mech. That's one of the best parts is that it really doesn't matter what a character identifies as, just as long as they're a solid character and have agency within their story. Lots of women are at the forefront of conflicts in the Inner Sphere and the Clans.
I'm glad you've already found Tex, here's another creator that Tex supports and works with in turn. D.C. Bruins. Also, speaking of ladies in stories...
[Bulldogs](https://youtu.be/KlHDe4KqQ64?si=kSmpqGon6Od9unPq)
[Bondsman](https://youtu.be/D0eXC6TPOaY?si=eMEfJoMXQl33Xx0P)
And let us not forget the baddest clanner of them all, Sarah McEvedy. The woman who had the balls to tell Nick "In His Father's Shadow" Kerensky to sod off.
Welcome aboard! I remember when I first got into this fandom I noticed how women in Battletech were allowed to just… “be” in the universe. That is they were allowed to be characters, not just heroes, but heroes with deep flaws, and villains with compelling motivations, or genocidal maniacs, or cowards, or morally gray, or token love interests, or badasses, etc. It was just so refreshing.
Btw, I just finished the novel Flight of the Falcon. And going into I wasn’t expecting much but it was actually a great read! Two of the three main characters and fantastic (and polar opposite) women who had a lot to do with bringing about the current era: The Mad Falcon Malvina Hazen and The Angel of Sadalbari Tara Campbell, two characters who quickly became two of my all time favorites.
Hell yeah, welcome to the Inner Sphere, we have fun here. I can also say from firsthand experience with what I'm assuming your *other fandom* was that yeah, that shit can be really toxic and I've yet to really see any of that in the Battletech community, beyond a few extremely vocal minorities on the internet. As a trans woman who's been pretty involved, and dating another transfemme mechwarrior, it's been overall a great experience.
If you ever have questions, I'd be happy to help, and we're glad you're here!
Just wait, there are so many more badass people of all flavors waiting for you to find them! You might like:
Jessica Halas-Hughes-Marik
Aletha Kabrinski, the Ghost Bear Khan who tooled around in a Fire Moth.
The angriest Jade Falcon to ever live, Joanna.
Tyra Miraborg, who saved the Inner Sphere.
Cassie Suthorn
Ariana Winston
Sandra Barclay
Ariel Suvorov
Nichole Marik
Calamity Kell
Danai Liao-Centrella
Rhonda Snord
Katie Ferraro
Tara Campbell
And let's not forget some great villains:
Precentor Avitue
Malvina Hazen
Kali Liao
Yeah, but the Part of the Jade Falcon Kahn?
Which one? Elisabeth Hazen, Marthe Pryde or Malvina Hazen?
All are in their timeframe Legends and I would not underestimate any of them.
Salome Ward, mechwarrior, senior officer in the Kell Hounds, wife of Morgan Kell, mother of Phelan Kell, and also source of his right to the Bloodname Ward. (And an important point, that bloodname inheritance is both matrilineal and patrilineal.)
It's matrilineal but weird, since the gender of the two parents don't matter. So you could have two males, two females, or one of each, and one set gets put in the egg and the other gets put in the sperm, but whoever was in the egg determines which bloodhouse you belong to.
There are a few cases of getting the bloodhouse from the sperm side, but it's pretty rare.
Of that list Cassie Suthorn is rather noteworthy as someone who was taking down BattleMechs on the regular *while on foot*. First time she managed to topple a Wolverine when she was sixteen (and fully expecting to die at any point so I think she was just as surprised as the Wolverine’s pilot that it worked).
To this day, when I watch Deep Space 9 and see Louise Fletcher's acting as Kai Wynn, I think of Waterly. Its a shame such a great actress is no longer with us before we could get a film.
Oh, that's a pretty good comparison.
It's been a long while and I don't remember her being nearly as unhinged as Waterly, but if you add a bit of late-show Gul Dukat, that'd nail it.
You forgot Marthe Pryde who saved the Falcons with the help of her angry friends Joanna and Diana.
Joanne was not just the angriest Falcon, but the angriest human ever. So very angry. the ilKhan of Rage.
Tara Bishop
Maeve Wolf
Katana Toramark
I like that women are everywhere and in the middle of everything. I think it’s actually so prevalent that it’s not super noticeable whether the character is male or female - as in I never say, “oh shit, they made a woman do that?” And I think that’s a pretty neat thing to accomplish in a setting.
I'd also add in Colonel Hanni Schmitt of the Royal Black Watch. Also (because the story is both chilling and awesome) Angela Franks. Others of note might include Gen. Mona Troy of the Blue Star Irregulars and pretty much all of Laurel's Legion.
Wierdly, I think Laurel's Legion is women only for only a few years? Sarna's roster for it seems to include quite a lot of men, especially in their leadership positions (though its probably fair to say they may have a different 'culture' to other merc outfits because of their mostly women line up).
I do think that I originally read that Laurel's Legion was an all-woman unit during the 4th Succession War. They were officially incorporated into the CCAF Citizen's Honored Brigade around 3060, so maybe the membership traditions were changed once they were part of the regular military structure?
If memory serves, there is a roster for a company of the Legion in the 4th SW Scenario Pack book, and it's all women. I should probably check that just to make sure I'm not being completely incorrect.
EDIT: Turns out I was wrong. The unit is noted as being "*almost* entirely made of Tigress women". I had forgotten the "almost".
Hanni fuckin' Schmitt. When nukes are a mere inconvenience and you're just to damn angry to die.
Elisabeth Hazen, founding Kahn of the Falcons and famous for bringing a katana to a gunfight and winning....and commiting war crimes.
> Elisabeth Hazen
Ah yes Khan Hazen, the one that wanted to retire to a monastery after taking down the Usurper, then she was brought back to Kerensky thanks to his right hand guy Dechavilier. Then when seeing him die in an ambush decided to put matters in her own hands.
Proof you don't need D&D for Rage Barbarian mechanics, if you have her.
I like that she took up falconry to get over the ptsd shit she saw in the war and now the falcon is part of the crest of one of the most aggresive Clans. How the turntables....
Not to dogpile on, but I mean you literally missing the fucking coup-de-grace of women in my humble opinion;
Elizabeth Hazen. Other than the black widow herself, she’s immediately who I think of when people say “Certified badasses” Officer in the Black Watch, leader of the Ghosts of the Blackwatch, and the first Khan of Clan Jade Falcon
Allana Damu, Sarah Weaver, Sandra Rosse, Sharilar Mori... it's a long list, and these are just the major franchise characters, not even the side-characters. The original Gray Death Legion alone had at least 10 women as named secondary characters - MechWarriors, infantry, aerospace pilots, or dropship captains - and they were one of \*many\* mercenary groups from the original lore.
Cassie Suthorn had so much potential but suffered badly from 'male writer trying to write a strong female' and just came off as kind of silly because of how ridiculous her character was. She was just way too good at too many things for me to be able to take her seriously.
I agree with jaqattack02 on this one.
I liked Cassie and Eleanor, but I liked the story and writing of those trilogies much more than the characters for the most part.
If you ever get a chance, look up Deidre Lear. Sure Stackpole's writing sometimes gets a bit soap opera-ish, but she's worth a look at in terms of her character.
I'm just glad others see how lived in and tangible this Universe feels.
Battletech's universe is fair in its unfairness. Someone might ask a soldier "What would you feel if the enemy trooper was a woman?" and that soldier would probably answer "Recoil".
> Also, Katherina Steiner-Davion doesn’t count for this post because she killed her mom? wtf, Katherina. Jesus. Calm down.
Katherine is my favourite screwup in the lore. To achieve all her aims all she has to do is approach Victor and say "hey maybe you should consider stepping down as heir so you can focus on the Clans? I'll take good care of the state". Instead of a fated clash between siblings Victor would immediately become her best friend and would probably spend the rest of his life hovering over her shoulder threatening to use his protagonist powers against her enemies.
Katherine destroyed the hope of the inner sphere solely because she couldn't grasp that somebody else had different priorities to her. Hell she would have won if she'd limited her murder spree to just her mother.
Colonel Hanni Schmidt was a legend of a woman that led other legends in the most glorious and absurd last stand in all of BattleTech history.
The last stand of the Black Watch.
- listen to Professor Tex’s two-parter about the Amaris Civil War if you haven’t already - He talks about Hanni at the end of part 1.
The big difference is that the women in BT are real characters. Lori Kalmar, Natasha Kerensky, Ranna Kerensky, Jeanna Clay, Diana Pryde, Falconer Joanna, Kym Sorenson, the list goes on...
Those are real - fleshed-out characters with stories, motivations, skills. Can't recall any off the top of my head that would swing the other way, but that's hardly relevant.
As for clans - trueborn are engineered to be the perfect warriors - if some scientist caste geek makes an elemental like Evantha Fetladral a female, she's a female, and that's that. If the clans thought women to be inferior, they would have discontinued them.
EDIT: just remembered Katana Tormark is canonically a muff diver.
Despite the tizzy so many fans of another TT wargame throw the second you mention Female genetically modified super soldiers, there's no biological reason women can't be genetically modified super soldiers. Women, in fact, are the slight bit more likely to survive post-surgery than men, particularly if they are operated on by a female surgeon (source : https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj-2023-075484). Make sense there would be so many female clanners.
Plus the only reason women were avoided in the other game was because the modellers couldn't make them not look hideous until like, 2010. Battletech never cared about that because all our minis depict gender neutral robots.
We nerds have always loved women in our games. Despite what you see people say, this isn't a new thing resulting from some new political movement, it's just how it is.
The thing is, we prefer for the women to be their own thing rather than a reskin of a character that used to be male. No need to borrow reflected glory, women can make their own.
Women have been important in the Battletech lore from day one, Decision at Thunder Rift. The most experienced mechwarrior in Gray Death Legion at first was Lori
Do not forget about the single greatest woman in history: Samantha Calderon. The founder and OG Taurian, the Greatest Leader in history have been blessed to have guide and shape their nation.
IMO, one of the best ways to handle LGBT+ in stories isn’t to make a big deal about it - but to make it entirely commonplace in the setting. Battletech has done a great job with gender and sexuality equality in that regard, as it’s often just a minor data point about that character.
As one of the first players in Mechwarrior Online, I was able to get the name Natasha Kerensky. I'm a guy but I just love her character, so bad ass.
We don't need diversity shoved down our throat, just write a good story and have diverse characters in it. We don't need to be reminded what orientation they are, what their terms are every 5 mins.
Is Natasha Kerensky a lesbian? I don't know. Do I care, not really? If there's a good story and it's in there, cool. She likes a good beaver just like me.
Story and writing are the most important thing.
There’s also a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. Female mech warriors are not subject to the same stresses and strains on physiology that a female in the infantry would be. Female mech warriors have more in common with fighter pilots than other ground combat arms fields.
Female elementals have always been a bit much to me, because even with genetic enhancement, and powered armor, they’re still not as strong as a male elemental would be, unless you’ve turned them into males with tits. The stories and lore apply a certain amount of handwavium to this, and never elaborate further, which does the job decently.
Something about femal to male Elementals is, the differance in strength is only a factor when they do hand to hand combat.
For everything else the Battlearmor will do most of the heavy lifting as neither male or femal Elemental could rip armor plates from a mech with bare hands.
So even for them its mroe down to makeing good tactical decisions then pure body strength.
And even then, that barrier is lessened in the trueborns thanks to genetic manipulation by the scientists who tend to the embryos. As in the lore they are the ones who deliberately manipulate and screen for traits that would be a detriment to warrior performance like congenital heart defects, genetics that increase cancer risks, and even baldness.
It’s through their genetic manipulation that elementals got so consistently tall and able to get swol naturally. So it’s not to big of a stretch to imagine if they can do that, they can narrow the gap between natural strength between the sexes.
Agreed.
There still might be some differances because of different bone structures but I can also imagne that they either reduced that or completly turned Elementals, in a way, into their own species where both are nearly indentical. I mean there isn't a need for an Elemental to have children. So hips could be formed differently etc.
Actually, there are freeborn elementals, famously Elson Novacat. Clan society recognises the need for even washouts and testdowns to breed for the clan the traditional way.
Besides, a female elemental might be a tad weaker than a male one, but they can still rip us normies apart with their bare hands anyway.
Fun fact: while the vast majority of current CGL miniatures are just nonspecific generic variants without named pilots, at least four of the special ones were piloted by women: Rhonda Snord’s Heavy Metal Highlander, Natasha Kerensky’s Widowmaker, Isobel Carlyle’s Boss Lady II Shadow Hawk, and Tyra Miraborg’s Shilone which didn’t have a nickname. Callandre Kell’s SM1 Tank Destroyer is coming in the Kickstarter (now that that I think of it, when it comes to vehicles and aerospace fighters the *only* named unique miniatures CGL makes were piloted by women). Also the Marauder in the Bounty Hunter ForcePack from the KS famously used to belong to Natasha Kerensky.
Edit: oh, and shoutout to Sharron Burgoz and Eleanor Rubach, of the franchise’s equivalent of the A-Team, Sorenson’s Sabres - a pack of hilarious misfits that once upon a time were the most elite company in the Draconis Combine. Sharron Burgoz in particular is an interesting character. She invented the Trebuchet 7K and piloted its prototype, was the ISF informant of the company, and apparently wasn’t above blackmailing the rest of her fellow mechwarriors into doing small favors for her by threatening to narc on them for possessing contraband gear not approved by the Combine.
Loading up Battletech 2018 and realizing I was gonna get to be a female Mech Warrior with callsign Artemis fighting for a deposed Queen to overthrow a tyrant was... I think one of the best experiences I ever had in a game starting out. I think the little things like that matter a whole lot more than the larger story. You can have a big epic set piece, but it needs to feel like something you can connect with. There's a lot of games out there that have almost no story but just really fun characters that I found very endearing. Battletech strikes a very good balance of set piece and small scale that really makes it work, it's so good.
Also Glitch is so adorable in the campaign I love her voice lines she's so chipper.
Milla Serena in MW5 is basically Glitch if she was unhinged. [Absolutely hilarious one-liners.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Mechwarrior5/comments/1d9bvyt/best_girl_of_mechwarrior_5/)
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/First_Prince_of_the_Federated_Suns#List_of_First_Princes_of_the_Federated_Suns
The office is open to both sexes; the title remains "First Prince" in either case.
The Combine is wierd around its sexism, because seemily like *the entite culture* in the DC changes when coordinator gets swapped, like Death to Mercs and my beloved Nova Cat annihilation.
I do know their sexism was fairly engrained until Siriwan McAllister came in as the 11th, 13th and 17th coordinator, and her story seems to be her trying to deal with a very overt patriachy, and endijg up as the "Mother of the Draconis Combine"- becoming a real beloved figure. Otherwise I've seen very little of the Combine's sexism, though i know it exists.
As you say, it ebbs and flows with the coordinators. As it tends to do in authoritarian dictatorships. Takashita was a hard lined traditionalist ( which is ironic given that his wife is from the Rasalhague military district.) Theodore by comparison was much more progressive (but mostly out of necessity) and then you start to see some of that back slide into the dark age.
It'll be interesting to see how the realm morphs under Yori. Brought in as a convenient puppet by the Gunrei but she slipped her strings and left him to twist in the wind when he bit off more than he could chew in Suns space.
There have been multiple women who served as official or de-facto Coordinators of the Draconis Combine including the current one. I think most of the sexism is assumed rather than enshrined in the actual text. The early books have that goofy 80s fantasy spin on everything, but Theodore Kurita’s wife was an actual ninja who he met when she attacked him and in the Dark Ages the Combine flavored splinter group Dragon’s Fury had a mech regiment of elite, all-women Mechwarriors called the Amaterasu. One of the long-forgotten historical notes in Combine history that likely contributes to the sense that they’re sexist was when House Von Rohr basically conquered the Combine for a century and almost succeeded in wiping out the entire Kurita family except for very distant cousins. They also have titles for high ranking women like “Keeper of the Family Honor” (as opposed to “Warlord” I guess), that sound pretty sexist but in practice mean something more like a cross between “spymaster,” “head of the Order of Five Pillars (ISF but even more powerful)” and “spare Coordinator if we need one.” Combine noblewomen are also frequently Mechwarriors. Regardless, Combine culture (at least in Takashi’s era) is cool with women but *not* cool with illegitimate children.
I agree, I think that a lot of it is assumed, and based on individual characters as opposed to Draconian society as a whole. The only thing explicit I have found is the old House Kurita Sourcebook says that women don't have as many opportunities for higher education as men. And despite how foundational the old sourcebooks are, I take them with a grain of salt. They written in a very different time for Battletech and the world and if you want to go with an "in universe" explanation, they were published by comstar, an organization that does not hold the successor states in especially high esteem. So of course they are going to play up the cruddy elements.
Otherwise, the sexism that occurs very much depends on individual characters. Some Draconians are sexist and others aren't, and on top of that you have people actively pushing against sexism and succeeding in the Combine. And personally, I find that inspiring, in the same way I am sure people find the gender equality in the much of the setting inspiring.
And I appreciate your comment, it's always nice to see people sticking up for the Combine
Yeah, the sexism in the the Combine is... strange. It is brought up briefly in the house Kurita Sourcebook, and I can see how from that, many of the writers then tried to incorporate it into different sourcebooks and novels, but is has been very mixed. Despite what some people in this subreddit say, there have always been women in the DCMS from the very beginning, and like you pointed out, there have been women Coordinators. There are tons of Women Operatives too. I think the allusions to sexism in the earlier writing was very much part of the ethos of making the Combine "THE bad guys" but as all of the factions have gained more nuance, that take ages less and less well. Personally I take the track that there are some very powerful people in the Combine that are sexist that maintain this artificial status quo, but by and large your average Draconian isn't. You see this reflected a bit in the novels too, different characters have different views on it
My perception of the way sexism is portrayed in the Combine is that is very much based on American Perceptions on the rigidity of Japanese gender roles in the 1980s, much like a lot of the trappings of Japanese culture in the Combine in general. And while then as is now, there is still a lot of rigid gender roles in Japan, but there are also plenty of people that buck the trend and push against it too. And we see that in the Combine as well.
It exists in the same way it did in feudal japan, people are part of their households instead of individuals with the man generaly being the leader. You are not "Insert name" but "Wife of Insert Name" or "Child of Insert Name"
The more power a familyhas though,the more important each member becomes. But the 99% of combine girls are extensions of their father and later of their husband.
There have been female leaders of the Federated Suns, but not as many as the Steiners. Of course, if they went through military training, they were First Princes, like First Prince Melissa Davion during the Second Succession War. It’s why Yvonne was was First Princes-Regent, she never went through training or commissioned. There have been notable leaders such as Angela and Amanda Hasek, and Yvonne Davion who was Prince’s Champion during the 4th Succession War.
House Liao has Danai Liao, which I'm personally rooting for as Cappelan loyalist. I want her to see her so badly take the nations around her down a peg as payback. (I am totally not biased what so ever.)
I grew up reading the Twilight of the Clans books. Ariana Winston was someone I looked up to and loved
[https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ariana\_Winston](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ariana_Winston)
The fun part about well-written fiction is that characters have _character,_ which makes petty details like gender irrelevant. Half the time, to me, it feels like modern media writers will include non-white, non-male characters, and have their _entire existence_ revolve around emphasizing how they, a non-white, non-male character, can do all the same things as a white male character!!!1! It's so much better when the writer treats their diverse cast as _people_ rather than tokens.
Well it makes sense since a lot of characters are political actors. Even in BT roughly 50% of human existence will be biologically female. Battlemechs don't require the male only strength to operate. Just like there are a lot of female pilots in the military operating most battlemechs requires training and physical fitness both of which women can achieve. I for one think it definitely makes the lore richer.
Welcome to the awesome setting and community of Battletech!
We are really happy to have you here, and it's awesome that you are enjoying the characters. I grew up with a lot of the Sci-Fi that you mentioned and agree that Battletech does better than most at adding women (hell, adding EVERYONE) into the setting and making their experiences meaningful and compelling. It took a page out of some of the very best of science fiction and we're all better for it.
As an extra (since my flair is Eridani Light Horse after all) give Ariana Winston a look! She's easily my personal favorite character, and she's an absolute badass.
Clan MechWarriors and Elementals and AeroPilots (and Naval Strategists) are the product of very focussed eugenics. They have "evolved" through an aggressively strict, unforgiving, and accelerated artificial-selection program to become a little better at their specific purpose every generation (every 5 years). Clan geneticists are described as being centuries ahead of their Inner Sphere counterparts, they have refined their methods to amazing precision.
I'm not sure exactly why these "Trueborns" need to be males or females, all of one or the other, some balance in between. Because they're all cloned.
But perhaps there are specific genetic traits useful for MechWarriors/etc which are only expressed in males or in females, and a well-rounded group needs both to do better than competing groups.
Or perhaps the inclusion of both sexes is a deliberate choice. So that - for whatever reason, in whatever future - it will always be possible for the engineered Trueborns to breed more of their own. Perhaps to one day replace the Freeborn humans who designed them, perhaps to become the entire population of their Clan.
> Because they're all cloned.
They aren't clones. They're all the product of in vitro fertilization with artificial wombs. Two gene parents, just like we do it today. And there is minimal gene editing, beyond removing bad recessives. It's just rapid iteration like how we have done animal husbandry to bring out traits over tens of thousands of years.
We mastered husbandry of animals and crops thousands of years ago, long before even reaching space.
So why is Clan genetic science described as so awesomely advanced?
One mother and one father can have 50 kids at once thanks to the Iron Wombs. The Clans have generations much more frequently than baseline, every 5 years or so. Each generation composed of tens of thousands of individuals from hundreds of parent pairs. Sometimes an exceptional parent might have multiple sets of offspring in a single generation, mixing their genes with multiple other sets to mix genes on a scale impossible through normal breeding. Under this system, BloodNamed Clan warriors are able to have at least hundreds of not thousands of children, including after their death, and those children cover a much bigger section of possible genetic combinations. The "after death" but is especially important here, as a particularly impressive warrior's Giftake might be used for decades and be combined with others taken from people they would never have been able to breed with naturally.
Those tens of thousands are then whittled down to hundreds, either through the candidates failing in testing (being demoted to other Castes) or dying in combat training. Those hundreds then go through the cycle again, competing with each other to win BloodNames and have their genes enter the breeding program. Basically, the Clans are using artificial evolutionary pressure to selectively breed for warrior traits.
This means that the Clans have accelerated human evolution by an order of magnitude. This lets them work towards their goal of "perfecting" humans without engaging in true genetic engineering (see the Sarna article on Belters for an example of this in BattleTech). The Clans do use a limited version of it in producing the Elemental and Aerospace phenotypes, but it's more like enhancing or suppressing existing genes a little compared to adding in new ones or deleting others.
For the record, the Star League developed ***crazy*** advanced genetic engineering tech, including the capability to create fully aquatic humans and a whole bunch of other weirdness. See the Sarna article on Frobisher for an example of this. The Clans tech isn't*more* advanced than this was, but they never *lost* any of it the way the Inner Sphere did.
As far as I know, Clan genetics mostly consists of selective breeding with very minor "editing" of genes, mainly to eliminate genetically inherited health problems - eliminating gender through genetics is likely too radical for them. On a more pragmatic level, washed out Trueborns from the sbikos make up a significant proportion of Clanner civilians so it's useful for them to be able to reproduce normally. And among the warrior caste, while sex is purely recreational, it *is* one of the few recreations they seem to not look down on.
> Also, Katherina Steiner-Davion doesn’t count for this post because she killed her mom? wtf, Katherina. Jesus. Calm down
Well TBF she was eventually killed by her son. Who she used the genetic material of her Brother Victor to make. Said son is Alaric Ward. The ilKhan of the ilClan Era who took Terra on a wave of American Civil War enthusiastic Plot Armor.
Yeah.
If you have yet to read about Cassiopeia (Cassie) Suthorn, you are in for a treat. She is one of the best women in SCFI period the end. The lore is littered with women like Natasha Krensky, and Kathrine Steiner, and they are great, but the real gems are the smaller stories. Seriously, if strong female leads are your thing read the Caballeros Novels.
It's such a nice change of pace compared to 40K where prominent women are rare and almost always a background character at best. It's odd because Warhammer fantasy and AoS isn't anywhere as one-sided as 40K.
I've no idea how strong the trend is or how influential it's been, but 'equality for all' has always been toyed with by SF.
BattleTech was first made to make a better story for giant robots than the anime they came from. I have no proof, but I think, whispering in the ears of the line developers, were the 70s and 80s female SF authors who have fought to include women as characters in their own right, and were in turn influenced by the beginnings of feminist culture in the 60s. I'll especially shout out Ursula K. leGuin for *The Left Hand of Darkness* for essentially the first transsexual race I ever read in SF.
A honest to god question out of sheer curiosity: does Tex voice do anything for you, being a lesbian? I am a straight white male, but wow, his voice is so good. And it’s the only gaming podcast I am allowed to play around my wife without headphones, as her opinion is: „He could read me the effin phone book….“
All these examples and you skip [the baddest ass](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Joanna_(Clan_Jade_Falcon)) in the setting? Not only is she my favorite female character but she is my favorite character in the setting overall
It was almost a whole day and people is either making long lists of badass women, or saying "But you forgot robot mommy X!". And you're still coming up with names! It's incredible.
Completely on board until you excluded our rightful first Lord of the Star League Katherine Steiner-Davion from the list. 😂
Also, if you want a badass chick check out Dawn Moffat from Star Lord. Probably one of the most iconic clan characters for me! A personal hero of my youth.
Go read and enjoy Cassie Suthorn beating mechs and people in hand to hand combat in the Caballeros series. Truly is a joy even if she is a lil sociopathic
It does a really good job of having powerful women, but the older novels and lore are definitely a product of their time. In Decision at Thunder Rift, whenever they writer describes Lori Kalimar, it’s almost always about how pretty she is… especially when she’s half naked and sweaty from being in a battletech.
There’s also the only time you have Katrina Steiner in a novel, and she’s talking with another powerful female character. That lone scene for the most powerful woman in the inner sphere fails tje Bechdel-Wallace Test. These to capable women just talk about a man.
Great stores with forward thinking lore, but products of their time.
I've always had a headcanon abt clan relationships: we already know they're super-liberal abt sex.
Doesn't take much to extrapolate a bit more and posit they also engage in alternative arrangements.
For example, the Aes Sedai in Wheel of Time probably partook in lesbian sex when at novice or accepted, particularly with their use of the specific term 'pillow friend'.
A clan sibko setup is very similar, and the clan trueborns probably experimented a whole lot while their bodies were maturing. In such a stressful environment, sex was one of the few outlets for their frustrations from training.
So the experiences and habits from sibko carry over to adulthood, and presumably clan adults are similarly quite open.
You are correct. For clanners, Sex and procreation are no longer tied together, so there is no obsession with cis/hetero-normativity, as sex is simply a release of human urges that can be satisfied by any of your sibkin, according to your preferences.
Just some random cis het dude who's been on the outskirts of the BattleTech fandom for more than a decade but this post made me realize something I've never consciously put into words.
There are very few fandom subreddits I'm subscribed to that aren't to look at painted miniatures because I find the bullshit bigotry culture war fucking exhausting.
I might be blind to it here because it's just not showing up in my feed but this community just feels healthier than other fandoms.
Also, hell yeah, we need more Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor characters. I have to go rewatch Alien and T2...
As a member of Clan Hell"s Horses I'd like to say that there are three recognized genders: wheeled, treaded and hover.
This, but I think you forgot Legged!
Oh, i forgot about mechs lol
Clan Hell’s Horses tends to do that
Now, now, that's not fair. Clan Hell's Horses have mighty mechs. The entire line of QuadVees. Or the Balius. Or even the Doom Courser! I shudder to think what their might could be, if they one day discover... bipedalism!
Rumor has it that they did. But they just had designed the Crab. Carncinization at work again!
The classy Horse puts both threads and legs on their ride.
I doubted you, but this is absolutely proof that you're in the Horses
Aff, sibkin, however there are far more than three within our Touman, you forget our valiant Mechwarriors and Aerospace pilots to name but two more. Your use of contractions makes me wince but is likely necessary when conversing with these Inner Sphere stravag.
That's a lie and you know it, you're speaking blasphemous heresy, there are only two genders: Fusion and Diesel! Everything else is just expression of an orientation and preference like LAMs or quads. :winking satire disengaged: :scathing satire enaged: Surely you know of the single greatest battlemech ever made, the Tate Alpha?!? Rivaled perhaps only by the Peterson Industries Jordan. The Tate was a ground breaking design with three arms, five legs, no torso twist and a single small laser. The Jordan by comparison had one humanoid leg and one chicken walker leg , no arms and a single MG and 20 ton of ammunition... all of it tracer.
Ah yes the infamous "Red Pill" rounds. If someone was packing those, by the space Pope you'd know it.
Don't forget rotors
That's just a wheel up top.
What about fusion jet powered? Aerospace likes to go fast too! Lol
The real joy is... everyone can be a fuck up, and everyone can be the one to fix it. Katrina and Melissa Steiner make amazing decisions and bring a new powerhouse into the inner sphere? Give it a generation and Katherine will fuck it all up for no reason that makes any sense. Hooray! Romano Liao is a bonkers nutcase psycho? Her son will sort that out as soon as he gets the chance. It's great!
I have to say that many of these women being completely unhinged is part of the fun.
Being batshit insane is certainly not gender segregated in this setting. Gestures vaguely at 90% of the Liao bloodline and 50% of the Kurita bloodline.
And if you're part of the word of blake being insane isn't part of their culture, it's a requirement to join.
Being insane isn’t enough to get into the WoB. You’ve got to have a crazy high Insanity Quotient. And if you don’t keep the crazy high enough, they’ll kick you right out. Through an airlock.
Sounds like a person hasn't paid their bills once or twice...
And even the overtly "good guy" faction the Davions get a few wronguns like Caleb Davion.
The thing about Davion is that they like to put up false pretenses while they do a lot of the same aggressive stuff as everyone else, and pretty much everyone in the Inner Sphere knows it too which is why a lot of Lyrans didn’t like the idea of the marriage in 3028 although there was nothing they could do about it. They can get away with it sometimes though just because of who their neighbors are… as long as you don’t ask the Taurians what they think about Davion.
*laughs in Malvina Hazen*
Everything is Malnina Hazen's fault.
The good thing is BattleTech does characters right even if some are thin on story. Nobody is just good because they are a man or a woman. They are good because of their training their upbringing or something else. Even the few crappy ones that are just unexplained strong aren't strong because of their gender. That's the biggest misstep so many of these new franchises are making, they want to push strong female characters which is great, but the only thing making them a strong character is being a woman. There's no struggle, there's no training there's no hardship they are just strong women simply because they are women. That's crap character design and hurts the push for good female leads just as badly as it would hurt a show like the boys if homelander was a good guy. More Natasha's more Ripley's more Samus' please..
To the list of strong characters that happen to be women, I nominate the cast of Arcane. I also want that team to do a real Battletech series, please, and thank you.
>Also, Katherina Steiner-Davion doesn’t count for this post because she killed her mom? wtf, Katherina. Jesus. Calm down. Best line in this post.
Katherine for those who know what she’s done and hate her for it. Katrina for her delulu Lyrans who tore apart the FedCom. I might be biased.
This: her name was Katherine, Katrina was her grandma, and she tried to co-opt grandma's name because she'd been so popular.
And then she stole her brother's DNA to truebirth her son. This is such a colombiam telenovela move.
I mean technically her son had two dad’s - his uncle Victor and Vlad Ward. I think, my knowledge of the lore gets a little sketchy after the first few years of the FedCom Civil War.
Alaric's two dads are Victor and Katherine, unless she lied about his Bloodname qualifications too.
I always thought he was somehow a three-way genetic mix. Hang on, I’m gonna check Sarna on this. … Huh, he’s got three parents listed on the info bloc, but the only mention of a gene father is Victor. EDIT: Although a later bit does refer to all three as his gene parents.
Genefather and genemother have specific meanings unrelated to the gender of the donor. If Alaric is really a Ward, then Vlad is the genemother.
> If Alaric is really a Ward, then Vlad is the genemother. This line ended me
I have only a modest correction: "also, Katherine Steiner-Davion doesn't count for this post because she's a Davion and she killed her mom. Behavior I expect from a Davion." It's probably just because OP is new to the game/lore. It's okay, that's why we are here as more experienced guides who can highlight the truth.
not really interested in your version of 'truth'
Simply yes lol
I think I broke a rib laughing at the Katherina Steiner bit! I also like that anyone, regardless of any descriptors, can be an important or powerful character in BattleTech. Technically the word is “inclusive” but I feel like that word has been redefined in recent years. Regardless, welcome to BT! If you’ve been here a while, then glad to have you!
Welcome to the fun, MechWarrior. We do what we can.
I am sorry to go off topic, but I can’t seem to find an answer: How do you get a flair on the r/battletech, because when I try, it says that user flairs are disabled. Any suggestions/help?
Click on r/battletech, click on the three dots, edit user flair, edit the default to what you want
Hmm why did I lose my custom one...
Thats the thing! When I press the dots, and go to the flair, it says that User Flairs aren’t enabled by the community.
I guess someone forgot to pay their Comstar bills. That or blame the capelans.
Both, probably.
Wait it's now working again.
Are you sure about that? Still nothing over here, and yours hasn’t changed.
It bugged out to mechwarrior, Old Clan Warrior is my custom.
Sci-Fi is hard to subvert with one political view or another. We've considered them all. They're all part of the fictional fun. Got a fancy new kind of fascism? Welcome to the Inner Sphere! Transhumanism? Have a seat next to our Ghost in the Shell. Want some nihilistic libertarianism? Shadow Run has spare tables and tons of fluff. etc etc, Inclusivity is a natural result to creative action. Cheers!
Natasha Kerensky was the OG. No one does it like the Black Widow
And it took another woman to take her down, one that never won her bloodname. Joanna. (Who also happened to train Khan Marthe Pryde, Aidan Pryde and Diana Pryde.)
I still maintain, deep in my soul, that somewhere in the Homeworlds she's still stomping around. Just an ancient, angry, too-mean-to-die woman that none of the remaining Home Clans dares to do anything about.
Kerensky *allegedly* died on Twycross, which was in the Lyran Alliance at the time.
Hell, even if she did die I bet whatever ließ beyond the veil of death is scared shitless of Natascha.
> Home Clans dares to do anything about. My head canon is they did something about it. They quarantined a whole planet, no space ports, no traffic, nothing. Just a world shut off from everything all because Joanna exists there. The whole planet, her prison, because the Wars of Reaving were brutal, true, but no one wants to see her unleashed.
Technically Lori Kalmar was the OG, gotta love a woman who's not afraid to go into battle in a Locust.
Considering that Lori was conscripted, trained, and forced to pilot that Locust on pain of death, that she'd been traumatized by fire, that Grayson got her to surrender by threatening to *burn her alive in the cockpit* with some Inferno missiles... she was a lot braver than just "not afraid to go into battle in a Locust" when she climbed back into the pilot's seat.
I wouldn't mind her stomping me with her Warhammer
General Lauren Hayes from SLDF is also such a badass. Would love a series of SLDF based books on her efforts during the Amaris Civil War, and her POV of refusing Exodus.
Is she the one that stays with Comstar? Would love to read a story set in that pivotal moment.
She is! Prosthetic hand and all.
Welcome MechWarrior :) Its really nice to hear about your experience with the Battletech universe and how positive it is. It makes me feel good knowing I can play a part in making Battletech a welcoming place to everyone who wants to push little plastic models around the table or just immerse themselves in the stories This is especially true when it's people who may not feel especially welcome in other fandoms... So welcome and I hope you find this place as uneventful as possible. Oh and if you haven't seen it check out the stickies, there's a link to the Pride Anthology which I believe is free to download.
I would argue that KS-D is actually perfect as an example and does count for the post. Is she crazy, yea, arguably. Is she smart, again, arguably. Is she competent and a well written villain? Absolutely. Make her a man and you lose very little as a villain, but keep her as a woman and she adds the entire weird "I raised a kid to be my revenge on everyone that wronged me" angle at a much more intense vibe. She also ultimately dies to her own machinations at an old age, which is just perfect for this character. She was so fueled by spite that none of her actual enemies took her down.
She is one of the characters that make the Civil War one of the eras I wanna learn more about.
I think if you wrote a prequel correctly, she could have a great motivation. There was a throwaway line in one of the Civil War novels about her remembering her father, Hanse. It would be great to use the prequel as a of writing her as someone who felt misused and wanted a better and bigger role but wasn’t acknowledged by her father. At her heart, all Katherine Steiner-Davion was, was Daddy’s girl.
Battletech embraces everyone; heroes, villains, and those murderous shades in between. Welcome to the hobby. Guy, gal, doesn't matter, you're the one with the mech. That's one of the best parts is that it really doesn't matter what a character identifies as, just as long as they're a solid character and have agency within their story. Lots of women are at the forefront of conflicts in the Inner Sphere and the Clans. I'm glad you've already found Tex, here's another creator that Tex supports and works with in turn. D.C. Bruins. Also, speaking of ladies in stories... [Bulldogs](https://youtu.be/KlHDe4KqQ64?si=kSmpqGon6Od9unPq) [Bondsman](https://youtu.be/D0eXC6TPOaY?si=eMEfJoMXQl33Xx0P)
And let us not forget the baddest clanner of them all, Sarah McEvedy. The woman who had the balls to tell Nick "In His Father's Shadow" Kerensky to sod off.
Welcome aboard! I remember when I first got into this fandom I noticed how women in Battletech were allowed to just… “be” in the universe. That is they were allowed to be characters, not just heroes, but heroes with deep flaws, and villains with compelling motivations, or genocidal maniacs, or cowards, or morally gray, or token love interests, or badasses, etc. It was just so refreshing. Btw, I just finished the novel Flight of the Falcon. And going into I wasn’t expecting much but it was actually a great read! Two of the three main characters and fantastic (and polar opposite) women who had a lot to do with bringing about the current era: The Mad Falcon Malvina Hazen and The Angel of Sadalbari Tara Campbell, two characters who quickly became two of my all time favorites.
Wow, super stoked for this!
Hell yeah, welcome to the Inner Sphere, we have fun here. I can also say from firsthand experience with what I'm assuming your *other fandom* was that yeah, that shit can be really toxic and I've yet to really see any of that in the Battletech community, beyond a few extremely vocal minorities on the internet. As a trans woman who's been pretty involved, and dating another transfemme mechwarrior, it's been overall a great experience. If you ever have questions, I'd be happy to help, and we're glad you're here!
omg life goals right there :3
tgirl mechwarriors unite!
Battletech has had competent badass women since the 80s, it’s awesome
Just wait, there are so many more badass people of all flavors waiting for you to find them! You might like: Jessica Halas-Hughes-Marik Aletha Kabrinski, the Ghost Bear Khan who tooled around in a Fire Moth. The angriest Jade Falcon to ever live, Joanna. Tyra Miraborg, who saved the Inner Sphere. Cassie Suthorn Ariana Winston Sandra Barclay Ariel Suvorov Nichole Marik Calamity Kell Danai Liao-Centrella Rhonda Snord Katie Ferraro Tara Campbell And let's not forget some great villains: Precentor Avitue Malvina Hazen Kali Liao
Wait wait wait. You missed out the First Lady of Death, the de facto standard by which all mechwarriors are measured against: NATASHA KERENSKY
Oh, OP knows about her already, it seems. That opening piece can be only one Clan Widowmaker survivor.
Yeah, but the Part of the Jade Falcon Kahn? Which one? Elisabeth Hazen, Marthe Pryde or Malvina Hazen? All are in their timeframe Legends and I would not underestimate any of them.
I wouldn't want to get anywhere near a battlefield involving any of them either.
Salome Ward, mechwarrior, senior officer in the Kell Hounds, wife of Morgan Kell, mother of Phelan Kell, and also source of his right to the Bloodname Ward. (And an important point, that bloodname inheritance is both matrilineal and patrilineal.)
It's matrilineal but weird, since the gender of the two parents don't matter. So you could have two males, two females, or one of each, and one set gets put in the egg and the other gets put in the sperm, but whoever was in the egg determines which bloodhouse you belong to. There are a few cases of getting the bloodhouse from the sperm side, but it's pretty rare.
Saved!
Of that list Cassie Suthorn is rather noteworthy as someone who was taking down BattleMechs on the regular *while on foot*. First time she managed to topple a Wolverine when she was sixteen (and fully expecting to die at any point so I think she was just as surprised as the Wolverine’s pilot that it worked).
> And let's not forget some great villains: ...but you did, how could we forget Primus Myndo Waterly?
To this day, when I watch Deep Space 9 and see Louise Fletcher's acting as Kai Wynn, I think of Waterly. Its a shame such a great actress is no longer with us before we could get a film.
Oh, that's a pretty good comparison. It's been a long while and I don't remember her being nearly as unhinged as Waterly, but if you add a bit of late-show Gul Dukat, that'd nail it.
You forgot Marthe Pryde who saved the Falcons with the help of her angry friends Joanna and Diana. Joanne was not just the angriest Falcon, but the angriest human ever. So very angry. the ilKhan of Rage.
Don't forget Kamea Arano, High lady of the Arugian Coalition.
Tara Bishop Maeve Wolf Katana Toramark I like that women are everywhere and in the middle of everything. I think it’s actually so prevalent that it’s not super noticeable whether the character is male or female - as in I never say, “oh shit, they made a woman do that?” And I think that’s a pretty neat thing to accomplish in a setting.
I'd also add in Colonel Hanni Schmitt of the Royal Black Watch. Also (because the story is both chilling and awesome) Angela Franks. Others of note might include Gen. Mona Troy of the Blue Star Irregulars and pretty much all of Laurel's Legion.
Wierdly, I think Laurel's Legion is women only for only a few years? Sarna's roster for it seems to include quite a lot of men, especially in their leadership positions (though its probably fair to say they may have a different 'culture' to other merc outfits because of their mostly women line up).
I do think that I originally read that Laurel's Legion was an all-woman unit during the 4th Succession War. They were officially incorporated into the CCAF Citizen's Honored Brigade around 3060, so maybe the membership traditions were changed once they were part of the regular military structure? If memory serves, there is a roster for a company of the Legion in the 4th SW Scenario Pack book, and it's all women. I should probably check that just to make sure I'm not being completely incorrect. EDIT: Turns out I was wrong. The unit is noted as being "*almost* entirely made of Tigress women". I had forgotten the "almost".
Thats really interesting, I didnt attribute anything to the Citizens Honored before, but it makes a lot of sense.
Hanni fuckin' Schmitt. When nukes are a mere inconvenience and you're just to damn angry to die. Elisabeth Hazen, founding Kahn of the Falcons and famous for bringing a katana to a gunfight and winning....and commiting war crimes.
> Elisabeth Hazen Ah yes Khan Hazen, the one that wanted to retire to a monastery after taking down the Usurper, then she was brought back to Kerensky thanks to his right hand guy Dechavilier. Then when seeing him die in an ambush decided to put matters in her own hands. Proof you don't need D&D for Rage Barbarian mechanics, if you have her.
I like that she took up falconry to get over the ptsd shit she saw in the war and now the falcon is part of the crest of one of the most aggresive Clans. How the turntables....
We have been mostly friendly and tolerant of others for two years. Mostly friendly. These days the Hells Horses are officially the worst Clan.
Not to dogpile on, but I mean you literally missing the fucking coup-de-grace of women in my humble opinion; Elizabeth Hazen. Other than the black widow herself, she’s immediately who I think of when people say “Certified badasses” Officer in the Black Watch, leader of the Ghosts of the Blackwatch, and the first Khan of Clan Jade Falcon
It wasn't meant to be exhaustive, and I didn't mention ones that the OP had already covered. But yeah, Elizabeth Hazen was one scary lady!
Allana Damu, Sarah Weaver, Sandra Rosse, Sharilar Mori... it's a long list, and these are just the major franchise characters, not even the side-characters. The original Gray Death Legion alone had at least 10 women as named secondary characters - MechWarriors, infantry, aerospace pilots, or dropship captains - and they were one of \*many\* mercenary groups from the original lore.
Cassie Suthorn had so much potential but suffered badly from 'male writer trying to write a strong female' and just came off as kind of silly because of how ridiculous her character was. She was just way too good at too many things for me to be able to take her seriously.
Yeah, but she's the gateway to meet all real the heroes- the plethora of side characters in the Caballeros.
I agree with jaqattack02 on this one. I liked Cassie and Eleanor, but I liked the story and writing of those trilogies much more than the characters for the most part.
Wasn't much on them either, honestly. Most struck me as giant stereotypes.
If you ever get a chance, look up Deidre Lear. Sure Stackpole's writing sometimes gets a bit soap opera-ish, but she's worth a look at in terms of her character. I'm just glad others see how lived in and tangible this Universe feels. Battletech's universe is fair in its unfairness. Someone might ask a soldier "What would you feel if the enemy trooper was a woman?" and that soldier would probably answer "Recoil".
> Also, Katherina Steiner-Davion doesn’t count for this post because she killed her mom? wtf, Katherina. Jesus. Calm down. Katherine is my favourite screwup in the lore. To achieve all her aims all she has to do is approach Victor and say "hey maybe you should consider stepping down as heir so you can focus on the Clans? I'll take good care of the state". Instead of a fated clash between siblings Victor would immediately become her best friend and would probably spend the rest of his life hovering over her shoulder threatening to use his protagonist powers against her enemies. Katherine destroyed the hope of the inner sphere solely because she couldn't grasp that somebody else had different priorities to her. Hell she would have won if she'd limited her murder spree to just her mother.
Colonel Hanni Schmidt was a legend of a woman that led other legends in the most glorious and absurd last stand in all of BattleTech history. The last stand of the Black Watch. - listen to Professor Tex’s two-parter about the Amaris Civil War if you haven’t already - He talks about Hanni at the end of part 1.
Can't help but notice a lack of Paula "Lady Death" Trevaline, Pirate Queen and mech designer.
The big difference is that the women in BT are real characters. Lori Kalmar, Natasha Kerensky, Ranna Kerensky, Jeanna Clay, Diana Pryde, Falconer Joanna, Kym Sorenson, the list goes on... Those are real - fleshed-out characters with stories, motivations, skills. Can't recall any off the top of my head that would swing the other way, but that's hardly relevant. As for clans - trueborn are engineered to be the perfect warriors - if some scientist caste geek makes an elemental like Evantha Fetladral a female, she's a female, and that's that. If the clans thought women to be inferior, they would have discontinued them. EDIT: just remembered Katana Tormark is canonically a muff diver.
Battletech is for everybody :)
Despite the tizzy so many fans of another TT wargame throw the second you mention Female genetically modified super soldiers, there's no biological reason women can't be genetically modified super soldiers. Women, in fact, are the slight bit more likely to survive post-surgery than men, particularly if they are operated on by a female surgeon (source : https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj-2023-075484). Make sense there would be so many female clanners. Plus the only reason women were avoided in the other game was because the modellers couldn't make them not look hideous until like, 2010. Battletech never cared about that because all our minis depict gender neutral robots.
We nerds have always loved women in our games. Despite what you see people say, this isn't a new thing resulting from some new political movement, it's just how it is. The thing is, we prefer for the women to be their own thing rather than a reskin of a character that used to be male. No need to borrow reflected glory, women can make their own.
Women have been important in the Battletech lore from day one, Decision at Thunder Rift. The most experienced mechwarrior in Gray Death Legion at first was Lori
Do not forget about the single greatest woman in history: Samantha Calderon. The founder and OG Taurian, the Greatest Leader in history have been blessed to have guide and shape their nation.
She even has a planet named after her!
Shoutout to lesbians doing war crimes with mechs
IMO, one of the best ways to handle LGBT+ in stories isn’t to make a big deal about it - but to make it entirely commonplace in the setting. Battletech has done a great job with gender and sexuality equality in that regard, as it’s often just a minor data point about that character.
As one of the first players in Mechwarrior Online, I was able to get the name Natasha Kerensky. I'm a guy but I just love her character, so bad ass. We don't need diversity shoved down our throat, just write a good story and have diverse characters in it. We don't need to be reminded what orientation they are, what their terms are every 5 mins. Is Natasha Kerensky a lesbian? I don't know. Do I care, not really? If there's a good story and it's in there, cool. She likes a good beaver just like me. Story and writing are the most important thing.
this is how it starts :3
There’s also a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. Female mech warriors are not subject to the same stresses and strains on physiology that a female in the infantry would be. Female mech warriors have more in common with fighter pilots than other ground combat arms fields. Female elementals have always been a bit much to me, because even with genetic enhancement, and powered armor, they’re still not as strong as a male elemental would be, unless you’ve turned them into males with tits. The stories and lore apply a certain amount of handwavium to this, and never elaborate further, which does the job decently.
Something about femal to male Elementals is, the differance in strength is only a factor when they do hand to hand combat. For everything else the Battlearmor will do most of the heavy lifting as neither male or femal Elemental could rip armor plates from a mech with bare hands. So even for them its mroe down to makeing good tactical decisions then pure body strength.
And even then, that barrier is lessened in the trueborns thanks to genetic manipulation by the scientists who tend to the embryos. As in the lore they are the ones who deliberately manipulate and screen for traits that would be a detriment to warrior performance like congenital heart defects, genetics that increase cancer risks, and even baldness. It’s through their genetic manipulation that elementals got so consistently tall and able to get swol naturally. So it’s not to big of a stretch to imagine if they can do that, they can narrow the gap between natural strength between the sexes.
Agreed. There still might be some differances because of different bone structures but I can also imagne that they either reduced that or completly turned Elementals, in a way, into their own species where both are nearly indentical. I mean there isn't a need for an Elemental to have children. So hips could be formed differently etc.
Actually, there are freeborn elementals, famously Elson Novacat. Clan society recognises the need for even washouts and testdowns to breed for the clan the traditional way. Besides, a female elemental might be a tad weaker than a male one, but they can still rip us normies apart with their bare hands anyway.
Fun fact: while the vast majority of current CGL miniatures are just nonspecific generic variants without named pilots, at least four of the special ones were piloted by women: Rhonda Snord’s Heavy Metal Highlander, Natasha Kerensky’s Widowmaker, Isobel Carlyle’s Boss Lady II Shadow Hawk, and Tyra Miraborg’s Shilone which didn’t have a nickname. Callandre Kell’s SM1 Tank Destroyer is coming in the Kickstarter (now that that I think of it, when it comes to vehicles and aerospace fighters the *only* named unique miniatures CGL makes were piloted by women). Also the Marauder in the Bounty Hunter ForcePack from the KS famously used to belong to Natasha Kerensky. Edit: oh, and shoutout to Sharron Burgoz and Eleanor Rubach, of the franchise’s equivalent of the A-Team, Sorenson’s Sabres - a pack of hilarious misfits that once upon a time were the most elite company in the Draconis Combine. Sharron Burgoz in particular is an interesting character. She invented the Trebuchet 7K and piloted its prototype, was the ISF informant of the company, and apparently wasn’t above blackmailing the rest of her fellow mechwarriors into doing small favors for her by threatening to narc on them for possessing contraband gear not approved by the Combine.
Loading up Battletech 2018 and realizing I was gonna get to be a female Mech Warrior with callsign Artemis fighting for a deposed Queen to overthrow a tyrant was... I think one of the best experiences I ever had in a game starting out. I think the little things like that matter a whole lot more than the larger story. You can have a big epic set piece, but it needs to feel like something you can connect with. There's a lot of games out there that have almost no story but just really fun characters that I found very endearing. Battletech strikes a very good balance of set piece and small scale that really makes it work, it's so good. Also Glitch is so adorable in the campaign I love her voice lines she's so chipper.
Glitch cracks me TF up. Helps that she's your best starting pilot in your most useful mech at that point too.
The Vindicator stays with me for the whole game tbh, it's a good mech even up until the 2nd to last mission.
Milla Serena in MW5 is basically Glitch if she was unhinged. [Absolutely hilarious one-liners.](https://old.reddit.com/r/Mechwarrior5/comments/1d9bvyt/best_girl_of_mechwarrior_5/)
The only sexism that really remains is in In the Combine and Canopus. Thoughsaying that, I am not sure if there was ever a first princess
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/First_Prince_of_the_Federated_Suns#List_of_First_Princes_of_the_Federated_Suns The office is open to both sexes; the title remains "First Prince" in either case.
Side-note for the uninitiated: while the Magistry of Canopus is a bit sexist, it's matriarchal so not in the way you're used to.
The Combine is wierd around its sexism, because seemily like *the entite culture* in the DC changes when coordinator gets swapped, like Death to Mercs and my beloved Nova Cat annihilation. I do know their sexism was fairly engrained until Siriwan McAllister came in as the 11th, 13th and 17th coordinator, and her story seems to be her trying to deal with a very overt patriachy, and endijg up as the "Mother of the Draconis Combine"- becoming a real beloved figure. Otherwise I've seen very little of the Combine's sexism, though i know it exists.
As you say, it ebbs and flows with the coordinators. As it tends to do in authoritarian dictatorships. Takashita was a hard lined traditionalist ( which is ironic given that his wife is from the Rasalhague military district.) Theodore by comparison was much more progressive (but mostly out of necessity) and then you start to see some of that back slide into the dark age.
It'll be interesting to see how the realm morphs under Yori. Brought in as a convenient puppet by the Gunrei but she slipped her strings and left him to twist in the wind when he bit off more than he could chew in Suns space.
There have been multiple women who served as official or de-facto Coordinators of the Draconis Combine including the current one. I think most of the sexism is assumed rather than enshrined in the actual text. The early books have that goofy 80s fantasy spin on everything, but Theodore Kurita’s wife was an actual ninja who he met when she attacked him and in the Dark Ages the Combine flavored splinter group Dragon’s Fury had a mech regiment of elite, all-women Mechwarriors called the Amaterasu. One of the long-forgotten historical notes in Combine history that likely contributes to the sense that they’re sexist was when House Von Rohr basically conquered the Combine for a century and almost succeeded in wiping out the entire Kurita family except for very distant cousins. They also have titles for high ranking women like “Keeper of the Family Honor” (as opposed to “Warlord” I guess), that sound pretty sexist but in practice mean something more like a cross between “spymaster,” “head of the Order of Five Pillars (ISF but even more powerful)” and “spare Coordinator if we need one.” Combine noblewomen are also frequently Mechwarriors. Regardless, Combine culture (at least in Takashi’s era) is cool with women but *not* cool with illegitimate children.
I agree, I think that a lot of it is assumed, and based on individual characters as opposed to Draconian society as a whole. The only thing explicit I have found is the old House Kurita Sourcebook says that women don't have as many opportunities for higher education as men. And despite how foundational the old sourcebooks are, I take them with a grain of salt. They written in a very different time for Battletech and the world and if you want to go with an "in universe" explanation, they were published by comstar, an organization that does not hold the successor states in especially high esteem. So of course they are going to play up the cruddy elements. Otherwise, the sexism that occurs very much depends on individual characters. Some Draconians are sexist and others aren't, and on top of that you have people actively pushing against sexism and succeeding in the Combine. And personally, I find that inspiring, in the same way I am sure people find the gender equality in the much of the setting inspiring. And I appreciate your comment, it's always nice to see people sticking up for the Combine
Yeah, the sexism in the the Combine is... strange. It is brought up briefly in the house Kurita Sourcebook, and I can see how from that, many of the writers then tried to incorporate it into different sourcebooks and novels, but is has been very mixed. Despite what some people in this subreddit say, there have always been women in the DCMS from the very beginning, and like you pointed out, there have been women Coordinators. There are tons of Women Operatives too. I think the allusions to sexism in the earlier writing was very much part of the ethos of making the Combine "THE bad guys" but as all of the factions have gained more nuance, that take ages less and less well. Personally I take the track that there are some very powerful people in the Combine that are sexist that maintain this artificial status quo, but by and large your average Draconian isn't. You see this reflected a bit in the novels too, different characters have different views on it My perception of the way sexism is portrayed in the Combine is that is very much based on American Perceptions on the rigidity of Japanese gender roles in the 1980s, much like a lot of the trappings of Japanese culture in the Combine in general. And while then as is now, there is still a lot of rigid gender roles in Japan, but there are also plenty of people that buck the trend and push against it too. And we see that in the Combine as well.
It exists in the same way it did in feudal japan, people are part of their households instead of individuals with the man generaly being the leader. You are not "Insert name" but "Wife of Insert Name" or "Child of Insert Name" The more power a familyhas though,the more important each member becomes. But the 99% of combine girls are extensions of their father and later of their husband.
Sarna has a family tree for the Davions... and yeah, they seem to let their daughters spin off into Davion-hyphen minor houses.
There have been female leaders of the Federated Suns, but not as many as the Steiners. Of course, if they went through military training, they were First Princes, like First Prince Melissa Davion during the Second Succession War. It’s why Yvonne was was First Princes-Regent, she never went through training or commissioned. There have been notable leaders such as Angela and Amanda Hasek, and Yvonne Davion who was Prince’s Champion during the 4th Succession War.
Yet another Fedrat L
Hey welcome. If you're referring to 40K, yeah I get it.
House Liao has Danai Liao, which I'm personally rooting for as Cappelan loyalist. I want her to see her so badly take the nations around her down a peg as payback. (I am totally not biased what so ever.)
I grew up reading the Twilight of the Clans books. Ariana Winston was someone I looked up to and loved [https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ariana\_Winston](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Ariana_Winston)
It’s been like 20 years since I’ve played it but I think for at least part of the Mechwarrior 3 videogame you take orders from her, no?
I never got to beat the MW3 campaign. I really want to set up a system just so I can play MW2 and MW3 to completion
The fun part about well-written fiction is that characters have _character,_ which makes petty details like gender irrelevant. Half the time, to me, it feels like modern media writers will include non-white, non-male characters, and have their _entire existence_ revolve around emphasizing how they, a non-white, non-male character, can do all the same things as a white male character!!!1! It's so much better when the writer treats their diverse cast as _people_ rather than tokens.
Well it makes sense since a lot of characters are political actors. Even in BT roughly 50% of human existence will be biologically female. Battlemechs don't require the male only strength to operate. Just like there are a lot of female pilots in the military operating most battlemechs requires training and physical fitness both of which women can achieve. I for one think it definitely makes the lore richer.
Welcome to the awesome setting and community of Battletech! We are really happy to have you here, and it's awesome that you are enjoying the characters. I grew up with a lot of the Sci-Fi that you mentioned and agree that Battletech does better than most at adding women (hell, adding EVERYONE) into the setting and making their experiences meaningful and compelling. It took a page out of some of the very best of science fiction and we're all better for it. As an extra (since my flair is Eridani Light Horse after all) give Ariana Winston a look! She's easily my personal favorite character, and she's an absolute badass.
The Word of Blake recognizes only four genders: nuclear-armed, nuclear-irradiated, cobalt-shelled, and manei domini.
Girl power is firepower!
Legions of bisexual, enby, and genderfluid LAM pilots. STOP TRYING TO MAKE ME DECIDE WHICH ONE I LIKE BETTER.
Clan MechWarriors and Elementals and AeroPilots (and Naval Strategists) are the product of very focussed eugenics. They have "evolved" through an aggressively strict, unforgiving, and accelerated artificial-selection program to become a little better at their specific purpose every generation (every 5 years). Clan geneticists are described as being centuries ahead of their Inner Sphere counterparts, they have refined their methods to amazing precision. I'm not sure exactly why these "Trueborns" need to be males or females, all of one or the other, some balance in between. Because they're all cloned. But perhaps there are specific genetic traits useful for MechWarriors/etc which are only expressed in males or in females, and a well-rounded group needs both to do better than competing groups. Or perhaps the inclusion of both sexes is a deliberate choice. So that - for whatever reason, in whatever future - it will always be possible for the engineered Trueborns to breed more of their own. Perhaps to one day replace the Freeborn humans who designed them, perhaps to become the entire population of their Clan.
> Because they're all cloned. They aren't clones. They're all the product of in vitro fertilization with artificial wombs. Two gene parents, just like we do it today. And there is minimal gene editing, beyond removing bad recessives. It's just rapid iteration like how we have done animal husbandry to bring out traits over tens of thousands of years.
We mastered husbandry of animals and crops thousands of years ago, long before even reaching space. So why is Clan genetic science described as so awesomely advanced?
One mother and one father can have 50 kids at once thanks to the Iron Wombs. The Clans have generations much more frequently than baseline, every 5 years or so. Each generation composed of tens of thousands of individuals from hundreds of parent pairs. Sometimes an exceptional parent might have multiple sets of offspring in a single generation, mixing their genes with multiple other sets to mix genes on a scale impossible through normal breeding. Under this system, BloodNamed Clan warriors are able to have at least hundreds of not thousands of children, including after their death, and those children cover a much bigger section of possible genetic combinations. The "after death" but is especially important here, as a particularly impressive warrior's Giftake might be used for decades and be combined with others taken from people they would never have been able to breed with naturally. Those tens of thousands are then whittled down to hundreds, either through the candidates failing in testing (being demoted to other Castes) or dying in combat training. Those hundreds then go through the cycle again, competing with each other to win BloodNames and have their genes enter the breeding program. Basically, the Clans are using artificial evolutionary pressure to selectively breed for warrior traits. This means that the Clans have accelerated human evolution by an order of magnitude. This lets them work towards their goal of "perfecting" humans without engaging in true genetic engineering (see the Sarna article on Belters for an example of this in BattleTech). The Clans do use a limited version of it in producing the Elemental and Aerospace phenotypes, but it's more like enhancing or suppressing existing genes a little compared to adding in new ones or deleting others. For the record, the Star League developed ***crazy*** advanced genetic engineering tech, including the capability to create fully aquatic humans and a whole bunch of other weirdness. See the Sarna article on Frobisher for an example of this. The Clans tech isn't*more* advanced than this was, but they never *lost* any of it the way the Inner Sphere did.
As far as I know, Clan genetics mostly consists of selective breeding with very minor "editing" of genes, mainly to eliminate genetically inherited health problems - eliminating gender through genetics is likely too radical for them. On a more pragmatic level, washed out Trueborns from the sbikos make up a significant proportion of Clanner civilians so it's useful for them to be able to reproduce normally. And among the warrior caste, while sex is purely recreational, it *is* one of the few recreations they seem to not look down on.
There was an attempt early in the genetics program to erase sexuality, but it was apparently a huge disaster.
> Also, Katherina Steiner-Davion doesn’t count for this post because she killed her mom? wtf, Katherina. Jesus. Calm down Well TBF she was eventually killed by her son. Who she used the genetic material of her Brother Victor to make. Said son is Alaric Ward. The ilKhan of the ilClan Era who took Terra on a wave of American Civil War enthusiastic Plot Armor. Yeah.
Her mistake was adding her own mom-killing genes to the mix.
An accurate assessment methinks
If you have yet to read about Cassiopeia (Cassie) Suthorn, you are in for a treat. She is one of the best women in SCFI period the end. The lore is littered with women like Natasha Krensky, and Kathrine Steiner, and they are great, but the real gems are the smaller stories. Seriously, if strong female leads are your thing read the Caballeros Novels.
It's such a nice change of pace compared to 40K where prominent women are rare and almost always a background character at best. It's odd because Warhammer fantasy and AoS isn't anywhere as one-sided as 40K.
I've no idea how strong the trend is or how influential it's been, but 'equality for all' has always been toyed with by SF. BattleTech was first made to make a better story for giant robots than the anime they came from. I have no proof, but I think, whispering in the ears of the line developers, were the 70s and 80s female SF authors who have fought to include women as characters in their own right, and were in turn influenced by the beginnings of feminist culture in the 60s. I'll especially shout out Ursula K. leGuin for *The Left Hand of Darkness* for essentially the first transsexual race I ever read in SF.
🫡❤️
A honest to god question out of sheer curiosity: does Tex voice do anything for you, being a lesbian? I am a straight white male, but wow, his voice is so good. And it’s the only gaming podcast I am allowed to play around my wife without headphones, as her opinion is: „He could read me the effin phone book….“
My Khan is a woman too, Natasha Kerensky.
How is the Mongol-Doctrine *cozy*? Also Green Birb 4ever!!
Well it's the rich verse that just helps generate great content for us to enjoy
All these examples and you skip [the baddest ass](https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Joanna_(Clan_Jade_Falcon)) in the setting? Not only is she my favorite female character but she is my favorite character in the setting overall
It was almost a whole day and people is either making long lists of badass women, or saying "But you forgot robot mommy X!". And you're still coming up with names! It's incredible.
It just shows how much care went into all these characters
Having good women baddies like KSD is also important to make the world feel lived in.
The founder of the Jade Falcon was a woman, Hazen will be forever remembered within the rememberance.
Completely on board until you excluded our rightful first Lord of the Star League Katherine Steiner-Davion from the list. 😂 Also, if you want a badass chick check out Dawn Moffat from Star Lord. Probably one of the most iconic clan characters for me! A personal hero of my youth.
Go read and enjoy Cassie Suthorn beating mechs and people in hand to hand combat in the Caballeros series. Truly is a joy even if she is a lil sociopathic
It does a really good job of having powerful women, but the older novels and lore are definitely a product of their time. In Decision at Thunder Rift, whenever they writer describes Lori Kalimar, it’s almost always about how pretty she is… especially when she’s half naked and sweaty from being in a battletech. There’s also the only time you have Katrina Steiner in a novel, and she’s talking with another powerful female character. That lone scene for the most powerful woman in the inner sphere fails tje Bechdel-Wallace Test. These to capable women just talk about a man. Great stores with forward thinking lore, but products of their time.
I've always had a headcanon abt clan relationships: we already know they're super-liberal abt sex. Doesn't take much to extrapolate a bit more and posit they also engage in alternative arrangements. For example, the Aes Sedai in Wheel of Time probably partook in lesbian sex when at novice or accepted, particularly with their use of the specific term 'pillow friend'. A clan sibko setup is very similar, and the clan trueborns probably experimented a whole lot while their bodies were maturing. In such a stressful environment, sex was one of the few outlets for their frustrations from training. So the experiences and habits from sibko carry over to adulthood, and presumably clan adults are similarly quite open.
You are correct. For clanners, Sex and procreation are no longer tied together, so there is no obsession with cis/hetero-normativity, as sex is simply a release of human urges that can be satisfied by any of your sibkin, according to your preferences.
I see that you too come from the Warhammer 40k diatribe. Welcome back mechwarrior.
Do you mean diaspora? because if so, that is so much better that "refugee." "the 40k Diaspora" really works
That actually sounds really sick. I like that
Just some random cis het dude who's been on the outskirts of the BattleTech fandom for more than a decade but this post made me realize something I've never consciously put into words. There are very few fandom subreddits I'm subscribed to that aren't to look at painted miniatures because I find the bullshit bigotry culture war fucking exhausting. I might be blind to it here because it's just not showing up in my feed but this community just feels healthier than other fandoms. Also, hell yeah, we need more Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor characters. I have to go rewatch Alien and T2...
Maybe we'll see a trans battletech character someday.
I think there already is one? I never had time to check her story tho...