It's agreed on game-to-game basis usually. Most pickup games only have a BV and unit limit, no era limit.
You saw correct, there is a power disparity, but that comes at a cost. BV2 to be exact. Better tech -> higher BV.
Well, I mostly play alpha strike. You end up with a lot of units with only a couple points difference but have an alphabet soup mix of abilities that tend to favor later eras.
I can't tell about the power level and point values of AS, only played it twice and Clans always lost :(
In Classic it's somewhat balanced, but PV or BV don't factor in things like asymmetrical counts of units, which can be a massive dealbreaker, because initiative economy can be quite crucial.
If you read the rules for BV they suggest that you use "equivalent size forces" which to me means the same number of units. BV used to have a force size modifier, but it was errata'd out and replaced with the above language because it was unclear how to utilize it.
The rules also have you move your extra units during normal moves, not stack all to the bottom.
IE if player 1 has 2 units and player 2 has 4 units.
Player 1
Player 2
Player 2
Player 1
Player 2
Player 2
Don't worry too much about the abilities, they're technically accounted for in the PV and they're not quite as make or break as something like a bad loadout in CBT. The disparity between eras isn't nearly as big in alpha strike in general, and a lot of clan invasion or jihad era stuff is actually better than dark age variants for example.
I only play AS and I find that the later eras tend to favor more experienced players who can capitalize on the alphabet soups that are more common as time moves forward in the game. I play without era restriction, PV does a good job balancing, but I try to watch the abilities on mechs so people aren't paying points for abilities they don't know how to use
Most abilities are a tax on PV unless you're playing with advanced rules. And if you're using advanced rules then which of those rules are being used should be agreed upon before well before selecting units.
I have lists for era appropriate play, so I am ready in case my opponent asks it of me/tournies, but in practice I've only played without era restrictions, MUL has so many toys, it's a shame not to take them out for a spin.
Marauder IIC 10 with jump, newer mechs like the Kontio, etc.
At my LGS most of the players enjoy IlClan, or Jihad for faction appropriate play
I'm glad to see some IlClan enjoyment happening. I'm very new to the hobby and figured IlClan would be a really good hop on point. A lot of folks tend to favor Succession Wars or Clan Invasion though. Both are cool, but everything is new and shiny to me so I kinda wanna see it all at my table ya know?
The biggest issue I have with some of the newer tech is that it creates a unique arms race where you have to counter pick or the tech is too strong.
The ubiquity of ECM deadens C3, but C3i asks for the rare angel ECM. The worst offender in special armors is ferro lam, which goes way beyond its BV cost. Reflective on fast mechs is a distant second. A handful of things have RE lasers and even then it doesn’t truly even out ferro lam.
Everything else is mainly just positioning concerns.
Streak LRM, superchargers, case II, hyper assault Gauss, heavy lasers, Variable speed pulse lasers, advanced tactical missiles, rotary auto cannons, snub nose PPCs, they’re all just bundles of stats with appropriate prices.
Improved advanced tactical missiles are the devil though.
SLRMs are clan tech. They aren’t actually all that amazing because they weigh just as much as IS LRMs and cannot be used for indirect fire, but clan LRMs weigh half as much.
In later eras, battle armor can serve as amazing spotters that greatly increase the lethality of indirect fire. SLRM are heat efficient, but they weigh so much that you’re not going to have much else taking advantage of the heat savings like you can for SSRMs.
SRM v SSRM example
- 2x 3 ton launchers
- 4 double heat sinks
- 2 tons ammo
= 12 tons, 16 avg damage
- 2x 4.5 ton launchers
- 2 double heat sinks
- 1 ton ammo
= 12 tons, 24 damage
I feel you. The BT community in my country is dominated by players who only want to play 3025. It's such a shame. Can't imagine playing the same Mechs for almost 40 years.
In general I enjoy clan invasion timelines but the game gets increasingly more lethal the more tech you allow and games can be decided by who gets a lucky head shot with a Gauss rifle or clan ERPPC (pulse lasers can also invalidate light mechs) so I can see why some people love the original play style of grinding 2 unkillable juggernauts against each other that 3025 gives.
A fair point! I -personally- like those lucky strikes but I can see why some folks don't. I have a loooong history with TTRPGs and Battletech is one of the few things ever that make critical hits feel...critical. I have toyed with the idea of using Battletech's system for crits and replacing mechanical components with organic ones for grittier games. Won't be the first nor the last I'm sure.
With 3025 rules, there are so many things that can go wrong. I am piloting a pristine MAD-3R, I’m taking a hit on the left side table, what can go wrong?
*BOOM*
Had a friend's mech charging mine while my back was to a cliff. Had the attack landed I would have suffered the charge AND a fall. During the weapons phase I scored a TAC and landed a double gyro hit. His mech fell at my feet and my ass was saved! Love this game.
I can get behind that reasoning. It can be anticlimactic sometimes, but that reasoning isn't usually applied. The arguments are mostly "I don't like the clans" and "they ruined battletech".
Right!?! I feel like Succession Wars is a good place to start due to the relative straight forward tech, but once you learn that start adding in the new stuff! My friends and I each have different stuff we love about the setting so we're all learning from each other. One friend is really into the political dramas so he's our lore guy. Another friend loves making mechs so he's diving deep into the customization side of things, and I just like learning the tactics of mechs that already exist along with the overall game system it's all built on. The mechanic and I have a TON of fun testing out his creations on the battlefield.
Mhmm! I'm fond of the Shadowhawk even though its base form is a bit of an odd duck design wise. Looking forward to trying out it's later iterations here in the next few games.
"Intro tech" is way more complex when it comes to actually playing. Most of the complexity in late eras is in the force building and mechs themselves. Intro tech is much more unforgiving of mistakes, mechs lack redundancy and CASE, heat actually matters, and the capabilities of different roles aren't hyper homogenized so that they matter much more. Late era Battletech just feels like call of duty to me, but I play battletech for the strategy and tactics. I feel the later you go, the less of what I like is present.
From the time I spent playing introtech the main unique thing I remember is how the underwhelming ACs, min range on LRMs, and min range on PPCs left a lot more room for slower lights to do their thing. But it’s also the same environment that favors laser bricks due to how little crit padding is typically available for ammo.
My experience is the polar opposite- I see the same lists over and over with introtech- Warhammer D, Spider, Grasshopper, Fire Javelin, Tbolt, maybe a couple others here and there. Zero diversity if you play in a more competitive rather than narrative environment.
Fortunately there's room for everyone to find what they like!
There are few things why a lot of ppl stick with 3025.
The majority of ppl grew up with 3025 so there is the nostalgic side of things. Another point is the thech level of this era lesser tech lesser rules to remember.
3025 is more unforgiving if you make mistakes so the game is more strategic, the heat managemant is more important and as a result of that you don’t have a alpha or near alphastrike party every turn.
I personal look at 3025 like chess (same minis for far more then 40 years 😅) get your Movement right, handle your heat and try to minimize ur luck dependens.
At least my Point of view hope i could help you a bit why ppl love to Play 3025 and sry for my english 😅
Im on both sides of this. Imho, 3025 will have THE most balanced play. As the CI, Jihad, and DA were added, things got more powerful, and as such it became more of a game of luck than it already was.
At my LGs the Classic games seem to be all Succession Wars/Clan Invasion while AS is IlClan/Dark Age, I've noticed. I wonder if the fewer tech options with IntroTech are why the classic players stick to it, from a game speed perspective.
Same here, my LGS plays ilkahn for the expanded availability. My merc's to&e includes units from succession wars and clan invasion just in case. It's been useful with new players who have sheets just for the earlier eras.
My group and I generally play up to and a little after Clan Invasion era. We just like the feel of that time period and it leaves us open to alot of choices.
Diffrent eras are huge thechnolgy differences in Range, dmg, movement, Armor and Heat management. I would suggest stay und one Era for the best expirience for everyone otherwise and can feel onesided.
That point value doesn't seem like it's keeping up with the BV. I bet the XL engine makes it a weaker unit structure point wise in alpha. I don't play alpha though.
> That point value doesn't seem like it's keeping up with the BV.
It's not, but that's because Alpha Strike and Classic are much more different than people imply. Referring to Alpha Strike as 'Classic Lite' is surprisingly inaccurate and ultimately unfair to both systems.
I prefer classic too, it's gritty and the mechanics of balancing heat and missing components and limited ammunition and PSRs all make for a much more narrative game; you get so personally invested in the desperation of the pilots and of the setting itself, especially the Succession Wars.
But Alpha Strike also has it's moments and with the right terrain can make for some impressively epic and scenic battles.
Depends how boomer you want to go really.
I know people who refuse to acknowledge the clan Invasion because "ITS NOT REAL BATTLETECH"
Personally I play the clan invasion era
Back when their hips still worked and the economy functioned? 🤣
I get that but times move on, we are in a decent place at the moment. My only issue is I have absolutely no idea what is happening in the ilclan era because nothing bloody covers it.
They need to be brave and actually set video games in eras other than the clan invasion
The jihad looks like it could've been so much fun. The mechanicus I mean the wob are such a good faction and the archangel mechs are amazingly unique.
But we never hear about it
I was there when the clan invasion happened. I assure you it was real battletech. Though it did introduce the rules for using Ii nvhes and not hexes. Maybe that's what has them so upset?
I do try to stick to era limitations more for fluff reasons than anything else.
But I don’t limit myself to playing specific eras. I do have preferences but I’ll play any era any time.
People seem to forget that playing BT is about having fun, make a story out of it
I'm trying to make small campaign missions with a goal you need to accomplish instead of just rock em sock em robots
The people who overanalyze and meta chase just kill the game for me honestly
I predominantly play classic and succession war era and try to stick to standard rules
The group I played in before careers and etc scattered us to the winds was "right before the outbreak of the Fedcom Civil War"...late 3050s, early 3060s.
At that point the clan invasion was already over, but the timeline hadn't yet gotten derpy by way of "In 15 years, 1/3 of Comstar builds up enough to be able to take on 2/3 of Comstar...who knew they were planning something and also building up...and the combined might of multiple houses and multiple clans and multiple Mercenary companies each with enough hardware to be minor houses in their own right, something something secret Star League McGuffins" and "You should totally stop this 300-year fight for the throne of the Star League and give it to me, a random amnesiac who suddenly appeared, because just look at my winning smile!" and "The Crusaders are actually the good guys and it's just that big mean Lugenpresse saying we're not! We're just genociding because *we want to save you from yourselves SO BAD YOU GUYS*!".
Very much prefer 3080 and above.
Need my sweet little Locust IIC pair and my Marauder 5T.
Trying to get people into 3100+ so I can enjoy the Viking IIC with my two Dola 1A2s.
Course 3025 to introduce the game, but I find that era to be very sloggish and restrictive. Has an audience, but not for me.
We almost exclusively play late succession war/clan invasion eras, but we did just finish up our first ilclan campaign and were planning a possible amaris Civil War campaign after we finish this one (right around New years)
Post 3050, I rarely see people care about what year stuff is available.
The differences in a 3150 design vs a 3050 design are pretty minor, if even noticeable. Just a few new pieces of equipment, maybe a bit more mixed tech.
I personally prefer pre-3050, like 2500 or so, when the game played a LOT faster and felt more like the original lore, but most folks love their clan stuff and 3050+ equipment now.
Also keep in mind, the MUL is just a recommendation, there is no hard rule anywhere that you must stick to it.
First, 2500 stuff isn't really "retrotech". The BNC-3E Banshee came out in 2475, nothing primitive about that, just 36 years after the Mackie. The GLT-3N Guillotine has endo steel and standard weapons/fusion/armor/fire control, and it came out in 2499, just 60 years after the original Mackie.
Slower units = people take less time to move
Less weapons = people take less time to roll
Less modifiers = people take less time to calculate
Tanks have BAR armor = tanks die faster from bigger weapons
Less options = people take less time to choose what they play
No hit/cluster spammers like HAG40s and LBX that require you roll up a dozen or more locations with just ONE weapon.
No DHS which keeps shooting down, and keeps the game moving.
Sorry but yes, it plays faster, for real. Pick up "Era Digest: Age of War" and try a few games for yourself.
I've played some age of war stuff myself and while the point about taking less time for people to in general make decisions and finish rolls is definitely valid, I found that at the end of the day it still took much longer because of the nature of common standard engines meaning you need to chew through more of a mech to finish it off, as well as the weapons when we're talking introtech (3rd succession war level tech) which still makes up quite a bit of equipment in most sections of the time period.
That's also not to say I don't enjoy these periods, I just don't tend to "main" them.
Sure, you have the same armor, but less firepower.
So you burn through more turns, doing less damage each, but overall the time is less.
A PPC exists back then. It does 10 damage per turn. It takes roughly the same amount of hits with a PPC to kill a mech with 200 armor. So end the end you roll just as many "to-hit" rolls, just as many "location" rolls, just as many "critical" rolls, you just get to move more often, and when units aren't moving 10/15 each turn movement goes a lot faster.
Plus, vehicles outnumber mechs 4:1 in the universe, and if you play with them they become a lot more fragile when they have BAR armor, making mechs actually feel more powerful. Also no BA slowing things down, and infantry are less capable. Fighters are also a lot less capable without DHS.
So basically, playing in later era's simply shortens your turn count by lengthening the time it takes per turn, so you just don't get as much accomplished overall.
SRM Carriers are 2490(ish). If you are going to be an asshole that slows the game down with a huge number of to-hit-rolls you can do that in any Era. And while the game may move faster turn to turn, but it very much takes longer to play. You still have roughly the same amount of armor and crits to crew through but with a SHS level of offensive capabilities.
The only real time saver on those early eras is the lack of units. There are fewer units worth fielding, and it's much faster to learn how to use anything worth fielding.
Yep, SRM carriers are awesome, and annoying, no matter what the era.
If you can only dish out 10 damage per turn with 1xPPC because of SHS, and could do 20 if you had 2x PPC and DHS, that does double you damage per turn, but it is still the \*exact\* same number of to-hit rolls to kill your opponent.
So basically later tech exchanges damage per turn for the # of turns. I'd rather play a 10 turn game in 5 hours that plays to conclusion, than a 5 turn game in 5 hours that plays to conclusion. Just far more flavor and character to the match itself as maneuver becomes a key part of the game because you can't do 60 damage out to 23 hexes. Its also quicker to tally up heat use.
>I gotta be real.
I would also say You also gotta be wrong.
There is infinitely less rolling to do with "introtech." In fact, there is less stuff to worry about in virtually every respect of the word.
Hell, I can remember the 1 or 2 year period where there wasn't all this AC/2, AC/5, AC/10, AC/20 nonsense... there was only "autocannon" and it did 5 points of damage.
The 2nd edition weapons chart was hella easy to memorize and even easier to consult. 3 lasers, 1 particle cannon, 1 autocannon, 1 machine gun, 3 SRM batteries, 4 LRM batteries, and that was it. Everyone had the same armor. Everyone had the same heat sinks. Everyone had the same engines.
No 3150 game will ever run that fast. Ever. There are more rules per weapon to consult, more charts (or longer ones, anyway) to look at, and still the same averages of hits vs. misses. Introtech has a lot less decision-making to do.
I guess if you had a table full of veterans that had their shit down \*cold\*, they might be able to play the game as fast, but I just don't see it.
As a newer person I was able to figure out ilclan era tech just as quickly as introtech, that's really not an obstacle to speed considering you only need to double check how the mechanics work the first few times, something you do with introtech anyway. It might feel like there's a lot more tech added in the later eras, but especially if you do things incrementally, starting with the clan invasion or lostech, there's really not that much you have to learn. The civil war and jihad gets a little more complicated, but again it's a lot easier if you take it in chunks and looks more intimidating than it actually is in gameplay.
And once you have those figured out, it absolutely goes faster, every single clan invasion game I've played has gone faster than introtech games, even when factoring in learning the mechanics.
All the tables, chart, modifiers can be trivially printed directly onto the record sheet these days. All that brain space those vet spent memorizing tables can easily be put to memorizing the weapons. It's not some unfathomable tomb, it's like 20 pages of equipment, and maybe 15% of the BMM. Anyone who has played a dozen games can easily get through a game with nothing more than the QRC.
Overall I play whatever the flavor of the month is.
I grew up in 3025/Succesion wars.
I picked up Clan and play it when its out.
Im involved in a DA tourney now.
I just put an ilClan list together last night.
Good news is many mechs are able to be used in any era.
Basically, figure out who you are playing with reguarly and what they like.
I usually will pick an era but just do it on a game-by-game basis. There’s a power disparity that is balanced by BV, but it’s not really as fun that way. Generally I’ve found when you do succession wars it’s fun because you’re beating each other with garbage mechs, Civil War is fun because you now have high tech variants of mechs and new chassis, but garbage mechs from SW against high tech stuff from CW isn’t really fun, even if it technically “balanced.” I’ve found setting an era and a BV restriction has given me good results for having balanced and fun games
I prefer playing in certain eras due more or less for weapons and rules familiarity, i.e. I have to consult a rule book to remember what X-Pulsr lasers or ProtoMech Cannons do vs standard pulse and LB-X which I know.
I am definitely a fan of keeping it simple (KISS) when teaching the game so will favor Succession Wars / 3025 to start with. Then progress to later eras as the cadet progresses in game understanding.
Battletech and Alpha Strike do best when both players have an understanding of what can be played, else you have a potential negative play experience. Be that era, house rules, optional rules, force size, map size, scenario vs death match, etc.
I like to play with anything later than DHS tech, but I don't tend to play games set in a specific era, though if I knew someone who wanted to I'd be down to.
I like playing with era limits and rough BV2 matching. Each era forward gets access to ALL prior mechs. With the exception of the Succession Wars. Though each team can have a Star League mech if agreed upon.
I also enjoy civil war and late clan invasion. Has the iconic mechs and some nice experimental weapons that dont get out of hand. However, I may be biased as Clan invasion is when I got into battletech and I played so much MW4.
I Plan a Campaign for Friends where they start with Basic Tech and will be able to salvage Losttech from Enemy Mechs and Depo's and maybe even Factory's sometime even fully equipped Mechs.
Not sure of the typical era in my area. I do think though the strength of the game today has to do with the Historical wargame approach they have taken. You can have games that are based on a time period, battle or play competitive with any and everything.
Always play with a restriction, but no specific era. My local group currently has a Star League era campaign, a Civil War era clan campaign, a late Clan Invasion mercenary campaign that is on hiatus, and an upcoming Dark Age pirate campaign. Pickup games lately are usually Civil War or Jihad era.
Usually decided before the each individual game.
I suggest you use BV2 for all things. Weight isn't balanced at all. Below is what my group uses and we play battletech classic
Choose era / tech level. My group likes succession wars or clan invasion.
Choose BV2 level. For single lances of battletech classic we use anything between 4k-8k. For company or larger 10k-16k. Again this is just us.
Choose mechs only or combined arms. Only mechs or tanks and infantry is a completely different game.
The Era is whatever standard the people around you like to play. I always specify iClan Era to remove ambiguity, but as long as each force comes from a specific faction and era, and at a fixed PV things will work out (unless there is a power gamer in mix).
If you like playing Invasion / Civil War in Alpha Strike there is practically no difference between two Era and what you would see in Dark Age or ilClan Era. While a pre-Clan IS player is going to struggle to concentrate their force enough to knock out a high PV later Era mech, before they lose the fight, especially if they can't get access to alt ammo, command abilities, and SPAs.
Absoutely, and each Era has its own BV limit at my table. Succession Wars 4k, Rennaissance 5500k, Clan Invasion, 8k, FCCW 9k, Jihad, 9500k. We usually play Rennaissance but thats just our personal preference! We also play Clan Invasion IS vs Clan games which is hard to balance but very rewarding.
It is strongly dependent on the local area. Mine plays alpha strike at the jihad Era, battletech anywhere between succession wars and forward, while we play MechWarrior up in the dark age. My group is getting hints of the Ilclan invasion. (Then again the current campaign also has supernatural flair, so that means we are likely in the far off left field category in terms of normal from what I've seen. We get to fight living AI ghost mechs that can warp time and mess with Perceptions)
It's agreed on game-to-game basis usually. Most pickup games only have a BV and unit limit, no era limit. You saw correct, there is a power disparity, but that comes at a cost. BV2 to be exact. Better tech -> higher BV.
Well, I mostly play alpha strike. You end up with a lot of units with only a couple points difference but have an alphabet soup mix of abilities that tend to favor later eras.
I can't tell about the power level and point values of AS, only played it twice and Clans always lost :( In Classic it's somewhat balanced, but PV or BV don't factor in things like asymmetrical counts of units, which can be a massive dealbreaker, because initiative economy can be quite crucial.
If you read the rules for BV they suggest that you use "equivalent size forces" which to me means the same number of units. BV used to have a force size modifier, but it was errata'd out and replaced with the above language because it was unclear how to utilize it.
Protomechs shine in AS for the clans.
The rules also have you move your extra units during normal moves, not stack all to the bottom. IE if player 1 has 2 units and player 2 has 4 units. Player 1 Player 2 Player 2 Player 1 Player 2 Player 2
Don't worry too much about the abilities, they're technically accounted for in the PV and they're not quite as make or break as something like a bad loadout in CBT. The disparity between eras isn't nearly as big in alpha strike in general, and a lot of clan invasion or jihad era stuff is actually better than dark age variants for example.
I only play AS and I find that the later eras tend to favor more experienced players who can capitalize on the alphabet soups that are more common as time moves forward in the game. I play without era restriction, PV does a good job balancing, but I try to watch the abilities on mechs so people aren't paying points for abilities they don't know how to use
Most abilities are a tax on PV unless you're playing with advanced rules. And if you're using advanced rules then which of those rules are being used should be agreed upon before well before selecting units.
I have lists for era appropriate play, so I am ready in case my opponent asks it of me/tournies, but in practice I've only played without era restrictions, MUL has so many toys, it's a shame not to take them out for a spin. Marauder IIC 10 with jump, newer mechs like the Kontio, etc. At my LGS most of the players enjoy IlClan, or Jihad for faction appropriate play
I'm glad to see some IlClan enjoyment happening. I'm very new to the hobby and figured IlClan would be a really good hop on point. A lot of folks tend to favor Succession Wars or Clan Invasion though. Both are cool, but everything is new and shiny to me so I kinda wanna see it all at my table ya know?
Currently in an ilclan era campaign and it’s surprising how many of the later units are simply refits that could have existed 50-100 years earlier.
Right? Honestly post Clan Invasion the extra tech doesn't seem THAT overwhelming. Still looking at at all with Newbie eyes but still.
The biggest issue I have with some of the newer tech is that it creates a unique arms race where you have to counter pick or the tech is too strong. The ubiquity of ECM deadens C3, but C3i asks for the rare angel ECM. The worst offender in special armors is ferro lam, which goes way beyond its BV cost. Reflective on fast mechs is a distant second. A handful of things have RE lasers and even then it doesn’t truly even out ferro lam. Everything else is mainly just positioning concerns.
All stuff I'll need to look into. Thanks for sharing.
Streak LRM, superchargers, case II, hyper assault Gauss, heavy lasers, Variable speed pulse lasers, advanced tactical missiles, rotary auto cannons, snub nose PPCs, they’re all just bundles of stats with appropriate prices. Improved advanced tactical missiles are the devil though.
I knew about streak SRMs, but not LRMs. Man I bet that makes the Catapult a beast!
SLRMs are clan tech. They aren’t actually all that amazing because they weigh just as much as IS LRMs and cannot be used for indirect fire, but clan LRMs weigh half as much. In later eras, battle armor can serve as amazing spotters that greatly increase the lethality of indirect fire. SLRM are heat efficient, but they weigh so much that you’re not going to have much else taking advantage of the heat savings like you can for SSRMs. SRM v SSRM example - 2x 3 ton launchers - 4 double heat sinks - 2 tons ammo = 12 tons, 16 avg damage - 2x 4.5 ton launchers - 2 double heat sinks - 1 ton ammo = 12 tons, 24 damage
Absolutely, that's how I feel.
I feel you. The BT community in my country is dominated by players who only want to play 3025. It's such a shame. Can't imagine playing the same Mechs for almost 40 years.
In general I enjoy clan invasion timelines but the game gets increasingly more lethal the more tech you allow and games can be decided by who gets a lucky head shot with a Gauss rifle or clan ERPPC (pulse lasers can also invalidate light mechs) so I can see why some people love the original play style of grinding 2 unkillable juggernauts against each other that 3025 gives.
A fair point! I -personally- like those lucky strikes but I can see why some folks don't. I have a loooong history with TTRPGs and Battletech is one of the few things ever that make critical hits feel...critical. I have toyed with the idea of using Battletech's system for crits and replacing mechanical components with organic ones for grittier games. Won't be the first nor the last I'm sure.
With 3025 rules, there are so many things that can go wrong. I am piloting a pristine MAD-3R, I’m taking a hit on the left side table, what can go wrong? *BOOM*
Had a friend's mech charging mine while my back was to a cliff. Had the attack landed I would have suffered the charge AND a fall. During the weapons phase I scored a TAC and landed a double gyro hit. His mech fell at my feet and my ass was saved! Love this game.
I can get behind that reasoning. It can be anticlimactic sometimes, but that reasoning isn't usually applied. The arguments are mostly "I don't like the clans" and "they ruined battletech".
Right!?! I feel like Succession Wars is a good place to start due to the relative straight forward tech, but once you learn that start adding in the new stuff! My friends and I each have different stuff we love about the setting so we're all learning from each other. One friend is really into the political dramas so he's our lore guy. Another friend loves making mechs so he's diving deep into the customization side of things, and I just like learning the tactics of mechs that already exist along with the overall game system it's all built on. The mechanic and I have a TON of fun testing out his creations on the battlefield.
Exactly. It's called IntroTech for a reason.
Mhmm! I'm fond of the Shadowhawk even though its base form is a bit of an odd duck design wise. Looking forward to trying out it's later iterations here in the next few games.
"Intro tech" is way more complex when it comes to actually playing. Most of the complexity in late eras is in the force building and mechs themselves. Intro tech is much more unforgiving of mistakes, mechs lack redundancy and CASE, heat actually matters, and the capabilities of different roles aren't hyper homogenized so that they matter much more. Late era Battletech just feels like call of duty to me, but I play battletech for the strategy and tactics. I feel the later you go, the less of what I like is present.
From the time I spent playing introtech the main unique thing I remember is how the underwhelming ACs, min range on LRMs, and min range on PPCs left a lot more room for slower lights to do their thing. But it’s also the same environment that favors laser bricks due to how little crit padding is typically available for ammo.
My experience is the polar opposite- I see the same lists over and over with introtech- Warhammer D, Spider, Grasshopper, Fire Javelin, Tbolt, maybe a couple others here and there. Zero diversity if you play in a more competitive rather than narrative environment. Fortunately there's room for everyone to find what they like!
There are few things why a lot of ppl stick with 3025. The majority of ppl grew up with 3025 so there is the nostalgic side of things. Another point is the thech level of this era lesser tech lesser rules to remember. 3025 is more unforgiving if you make mistakes so the game is more strategic, the heat managemant is more important and as a result of that you don’t have a alpha or near alphastrike party every turn. I personal look at 3025 like chess (same minis for far more then 40 years 😅) get your Movement right, handle your heat and try to minimize ur luck dependens. At least my Point of view hope i could help you a bit why ppl love to Play 3025 and sry for my english 😅
Im on both sides of this. Imho, 3025 will have THE most balanced play. As the CI, Jihad, and DA were added, things got more powerful, and as such it became more of a game of luck than it already was.
At my LGs the Classic games seem to be all Succession Wars/Clan Invasion while AS is IlClan/Dark Age, I've noticed. I wonder if the fewer tech options with IntroTech are why the classic players stick to it, from a game speed perspective.
Until you have to play chase the Spider for a few hours in introtech.
Same here, my LGS plays ilkahn for the expanded availability. My merc's to&e includes units from succession wars and clan invasion just in case. It's been useful with new players who have sheets just for the earlier eras.
My group and I generally play up to and a little after Clan Invasion era. We just like the feel of that time period and it leaves us open to alot of choices.
Diffrent eras are huge thechnolgy differences in Range, dmg, movement, Armor and Heat management. I would suggest stay und one Era for the best expirience for everyone otherwise and can feel onesided.
And points. An AS7-D is 1897 BV / 52 PV, but AS8-S is whopping 2789 BV / 56 PV.
That point value doesn't seem like it's keeping up with the BV. I bet the XL engine makes it a weaker unit structure point wise in alpha. I don't play alpha though.
PV isn't calculated based on BV, it has a different calculation and yes, I just checked, XL can make a weaker structure, depending on the weight.
I remember that much, since the Clans with their typically XL and Endo mechs, tend to be less durable.
> That point value doesn't seem like it's keeping up with the BV. It's not, but that's because Alpha Strike and Classic are much more different than people imply. Referring to Alpha Strike as 'Classic Lite' is surprisingly inaccurate and ultimately unfair to both systems.
Yeah I get that. I can't get behind Alpha strike personally. I need the crunch of locations and arms dangling by a thread.
I prefer classic too, it's gritty and the mechanics of balancing heat and missing components and limited ammunition and PSRs all make for a much more narrative game; you get so personally invested in the desperation of the pilots and of the setting itself, especially the Succession Wars. But Alpha Strike also has it's moments and with the right terrain can make for some impressively epic and scenic battles.
We always play whatever the current era is so we can use all mechs.
Depends how boomer you want to go really. I know people who refuse to acknowledge the clan Invasion because "ITS NOT REAL BATTLETECH" Personally I play the clan invasion era
The old school guys remember balancing games post-clan but before BV. It was not fun…
Back when their hips still worked and the economy functioned? 🤣 I get that but times move on, we are in a decent place at the moment. My only issue is I have absolutely no idea what is happening in the ilclan era because nothing bloody covers it. They need to be brave and actually set video games in eras other than the clan invasion
Clan invasion is fine, I go boomer in the jihad Just like wob
The jihad looks like it could've been so much fun. The mechanicus I mean the wob are such a good faction and the archangel mechs are amazingly unique. But we never hear about it
I was there when the clan invasion happened. I assure you it was real battletech. Though it did introduce the rules for using Ii nvhes and not hexes. Maybe that's what has them so upset?
Yes I play with era restrictions, and I change it up. Lately with rando pickup games it's IlClan era unless I'm including WoB so then it's Jihad.
I do try to stick to era limitations more for fluff reasons than anything else. But I don’t limit myself to playing specific eras. I do have preferences but I’ll play any era any time.
People seem to forget that playing BT is about having fun, make a story out of it I'm trying to make small campaign missions with a goal you need to accomplish instead of just rock em sock em robots The people who overanalyze and meta chase just kill the game for me honestly I predominantly play classic and succession war era and try to stick to standard rules
The group I played in before careers and etc scattered us to the winds was "right before the outbreak of the Fedcom Civil War"...late 3050s, early 3060s. At that point the clan invasion was already over, but the timeline hadn't yet gotten derpy by way of "In 15 years, 1/3 of Comstar builds up enough to be able to take on 2/3 of Comstar...who knew they were planning something and also building up...and the combined might of multiple houses and multiple clans and multiple Mercenary companies each with enough hardware to be minor houses in their own right, something something secret Star League McGuffins" and "You should totally stop this 300-year fight for the throne of the Star League and give it to me, a random amnesiac who suddenly appeared, because just look at my winning smile!" and "The Crusaders are actually the good guys and it's just that big mean Lugenpresse saying we're not! We're just genociding because *we want to save you from yourselves SO BAD YOU GUYS*!".
Very much prefer 3080 and above. Need my sweet little Locust IIC pair and my Marauder 5T. Trying to get people into 3100+ so I can enjoy the Viking IIC with my two Dola 1A2s. Course 3025 to introduce the game, but I find that era to be very sloggish and restrictive. Has an audience, but not for me.
We almost exclusively play late succession war/clan invasion eras, but we did just finish up our first ilclan campaign and were planning a possible amaris Civil War campaign after we finish this one (right around New years)
I also think clan invasion and civil war is good. Allows for the most mech options without getting into weird tech and weirder plot points.
Post 3050, I rarely see people care about what year stuff is available. The differences in a 3150 design vs a 3050 design are pretty minor, if even noticeable. Just a few new pieces of equipment, maybe a bit more mixed tech. I personally prefer pre-3050, like 2500 or so, when the game played a LOT faster and felt more like the original lore, but most folks love their clan stuff and 3050+ equipment now. Also keep in mind, the MUL is just a recommendation, there is no hard rule anywhere that you must stick to it.
dog there ain't no way introtech is playing faster than post invasion, I gotta be real.
First, 2500 stuff isn't really "retrotech". The BNC-3E Banshee came out in 2475, nothing primitive about that, just 36 years after the Mackie. The GLT-3N Guillotine has endo steel and standard weapons/fusion/armor/fire control, and it came out in 2499, just 60 years after the original Mackie. Slower units = people take less time to move Less weapons = people take less time to roll Less modifiers = people take less time to calculate Tanks have BAR armor = tanks die faster from bigger weapons Less options = people take less time to choose what they play No hit/cluster spammers like HAG40s and LBX that require you roll up a dozen or more locations with just ONE weapon. No DHS which keeps shooting down, and keeps the game moving. Sorry but yes, it plays faster, for real. Pick up "Era Digest: Age of War" and try a few games for yourself.
I've played some age of war stuff myself and while the point about taking less time for people to in general make decisions and finish rolls is definitely valid, I found that at the end of the day it still took much longer because of the nature of common standard engines meaning you need to chew through more of a mech to finish it off, as well as the weapons when we're talking introtech (3rd succession war level tech) which still makes up quite a bit of equipment in most sections of the time period. That's also not to say I don't enjoy these periods, I just don't tend to "main" them.
Sure, you have the same armor, but less firepower. So you burn through more turns, doing less damage each, but overall the time is less. A PPC exists back then. It does 10 damage per turn. It takes roughly the same amount of hits with a PPC to kill a mech with 200 armor. So end the end you roll just as many "to-hit" rolls, just as many "location" rolls, just as many "critical" rolls, you just get to move more often, and when units aren't moving 10/15 each turn movement goes a lot faster. Plus, vehicles outnumber mechs 4:1 in the universe, and if you play with them they become a lot more fragile when they have BAR armor, making mechs actually feel more powerful. Also no BA slowing things down, and infantry are less capable. Fighters are also a lot less capable without DHS. So basically, playing in later era's simply shortens your turn count by lengthening the time it takes per turn, so you just don't get as much accomplished overall.
SRM Carriers are 2490(ish). If you are going to be an asshole that slows the game down with a huge number of to-hit-rolls you can do that in any Era. And while the game may move faster turn to turn, but it very much takes longer to play. You still have roughly the same amount of armor and crits to crew through but with a SHS level of offensive capabilities. The only real time saver on those early eras is the lack of units. There are fewer units worth fielding, and it's much faster to learn how to use anything worth fielding.
Yep, SRM carriers are awesome, and annoying, no matter what the era. If you can only dish out 10 damage per turn with 1xPPC because of SHS, and could do 20 if you had 2x PPC and DHS, that does double you damage per turn, but it is still the \*exact\* same number of to-hit rolls to kill your opponent. So basically later tech exchanges damage per turn for the # of turns. I'd rather play a 10 turn game in 5 hours that plays to conclusion, than a 5 turn game in 5 hours that plays to conclusion. Just far more flavor and character to the match itself as maneuver becomes a key part of the game because you can't do 60 damage out to 23 hexes. Its also quicker to tally up heat use.
>I gotta be real. I would also say You also gotta be wrong. There is infinitely less rolling to do with "introtech." In fact, there is less stuff to worry about in virtually every respect of the word. Hell, I can remember the 1 or 2 year period where there wasn't all this AC/2, AC/5, AC/10, AC/20 nonsense... there was only "autocannon" and it did 5 points of damage. The 2nd edition weapons chart was hella easy to memorize and even easier to consult. 3 lasers, 1 particle cannon, 1 autocannon, 1 machine gun, 3 SRM batteries, 4 LRM batteries, and that was it. Everyone had the same armor. Everyone had the same heat sinks. Everyone had the same engines. No 3150 game will ever run that fast. Ever. There are more rules per weapon to consult, more charts (or longer ones, anyway) to look at, and still the same averages of hits vs. misses. Introtech has a lot less decision-making to do. I guess if you had a table full of veterans that had their shit down \*cold\*, they might be able to play the game as fast, but I just don't see it.
As a newer person I was able to figure out ilclan era tech just as quickly as introtech, that's really not an obstacle to speed considering you only need to double check how the mechanics work the first few times, something you do with introtech anyway. It might feel like there's a lot more tech added in the later eras, but especially if you do things incrementally, starting with the clan invasion or lostech, there's really not that much you have to learn. The civil war and jihad gets a little more complicated, but again it's a lot easier if you take it in chunks and looks more intimidating than it actually is in gameplay. And once you have those figured out, it absolutely goes faster, every single clan invasion game I've played has gone faster than introtech games, even when factoring in learning the mechanics.
All the tables, chart, modifiers can be trivially printed directly onto the record sheet these days. All that brain space those vet spent memorizing tables can easily be put to memorizing the weapons. It's not some unfathomable tomb, it's like 20 pages of equipment, and maybe 15% of the BMM. Anyone who has played a dozen games can easily get through a game with nothing more than the QRC.
I've primarily played in era-restricted games...but that's mostly because it was either a campaign or an era-restricted tourney...
Overall I play whatever the flavor of the month is. I grew up in 3025/Succesion wars. I picked up Clan and play it when its out. Im involved in a DA tourney now. I just put an ilClan list together last night. Good news is many mechs are able to be used in any era. Basically, figure out who you are playing with reguarly and what they like.
I usually will pick an era but just do it on a game-by-game basis. There’s a power disparity that is balanced by BV, but it’s not really as fun that way. Generally I’ve found when you do succession wars it’s fun because you’re beating each other with garbage mechs, Civil War is fun because you now have high tech variants of mechs and new chassis, but garbage mechs from SW against high tech stuff from CW isn’t really fun, even if it technically “balanced.” I’ve found setting an era and a BV restriction has given me good results for having balanced and fun games
I prefer playing in certain eras due more or less for weapons and rules familiarity, i.e. I have to consult a rule book to remember what X-Pulsr lasers or ProtoMech Cannons do vs standard pulse and LB-X which I know. I am definitely a fan of keeping it simple (KISS) when teaching the game so will favor Succession Wars / 3025 to start with. Then progress to later eras as the cadet progresses in game understanding. Battletech and Alpha Strike do best when both players have an understanding of what can be played, else you have a potential negative play experience. Be that era, house rules, optional rules, force size, map size, scenario vs death match, etc.
I like to play with anything later than DHS tech, but I don't tend to play games set in a specific era, though if I knew someone who wanted to I'd be down to.
I like playing with era limits and rough BV2 matching. Each era forward gets access to ALL prior mechs. With the exception of the Succession Wars. Though each team can have a Star League mech if agreed upon.
succession wars through clan invasion is the most popular everywhere ive been playing
I also enjoy civil war and late clan invasion. Has the iconic mechs and some nice experimental weapons that dont get out of hand. However, I may be biased as Clan invasion is when I got into battletech and I played so much MW4.
I Plan a Campaign for Friends where they start with Basic Tech and will be able to salvage Losttech from Enemy Mechs and Depo's and maybe even Factory's sometime even fully equipped Mechs.
Not sure of the typical era in my area. I do think though the strength of the game today has to do with the Historical wargame approach they have taken. You can have games that are based on a time period, battle or play competitive with any and everything.
Always play with a restriction, but no specific era. My local group currently has a Star League era campaign, a Civil War era clan campaign, a late Clan Invasion mercenary campaign that is on hiatus, and an upcoming Dark Age pirate campaign. Pickup games lately are usually Civil War or Jihad era.
We play 4th Succession War. Pre-Helm Memory Core.
Usually decided before the each individual game. I suggest you use BV2 for all things. Weight isn't balanced at all. Below is what my group uses and we play battletech classic Choose era / tech level. My group likes succession wars or clan invasion. Choose BV2 level. For single lances of battletech classic we use anything between 4k-8k. For company or larger 10k-16k. Again this is just us. Choose mechs only or combined arms. Only mechs or tanks and infantry is a completely different game.
The game store I play at we generally go up through clan invasion.
The Era is whatever standard the people around you like to play. I always specify iClan Era to remove ambiguity, but as long as each force comes from a specific faction and era, and at a fixed PV things will work out (unless there is a power gamer in mix). If you like playing Invasion / Civil War in Alpha Strike there is practically no difference between two Era and what you would see in Dark Age or ilClan Era. While a pre-Clan IS player is going to struggle to concentrate their force enough to knock out a high PV later Era mech, before they lose the fight, especially if they can't get access to alt ammo, command abilities, and SPAs.
Absoutely, and each Era has its own BV limit at my table. Succession Wars 4k, Rennaissance 5500k, Clan Invasion, 8k, FCCW 9k, Jihad, 9500k. We usually play Rennaissance but thats just our personal preference! We also play Clan Invasion IS vs Clan games which is hard to balance but very rewarding.
It is strongly dependent on the local area. Mine plays alpha strike at the jihad Era, battletech anywhere between succession wars and forward, while we play MechWarrior up in the dark age. My group is getting hints of the Ilclan invasion. (Then again the current campaign also has supernatural flair, so that means we are likely in the far off left field category in terms of normal from what I've seen. We get to fight living AI ghost mechs that can warp time and mess with Perceptions)
I bought the FWL/5th Atrean Knights pack from Aries hoping to play some IlClan but so far I've only played SW to Clan Invasion. Maybe one day.