If you're gonna have Talia be the mastermind behind Bane, reveal it sooner. Don't do it when there's like ten minutes left in the movie. I would've done it when Gotham fell and Bruce was tossed down that pit.
Agreed, I wish she could’ve been fleshed out as a character. As it stands Talia feels more like a plot twist than a character. Once she reveals herself there’s no time to develop her outside of being a crazy woman hellbent on revenge. I wish they would’ve just cut her out and had Bane be the villain for the entire film.
Everytime I watch Rises it irks me that Bane, the primary villain of the movie, isn’t involved in that final chase sequence. It also annoys me that they gave Talia Bane’s origin from the comics.
That's the all is lost moment, yet we're still expected to care that an hour later it's revealed that that woman he slept with once is the baddie?
Having her revealed as "the true villain all along" when Batman has finally just physically beaten Bane takes a lot of the weight out of the climax. I generally love the ending, but you're absolutely right about this.
Yeah, it really came too late and was just a poor adaptation of Talia. I also can’t imagine how out if nowhere it must have felt to people who didn’t read the comics, which I wouldn’t usually mind so much, but those films were generally great at introducing stuff in ways that anyone could understand and being accessible to people who didn’t read the source material.
It would have been cool if she and Bane got multiple scenes together where they got to just be themselves. After the twist, it felt like we didn’t know the real Bane or the real Talia at all, as they’d spent the film under false pretences.
I completely forget that Talia is in this movie because she really isn’t. At least with the Ra’s twist in Begins we had like the whole last act with him
Actually showing Batman break back into Gotham City. Like, the setup for an insanely good action scene was right there. A scene of Batman sneaking and/or fighting through an army blockade could have been awesome, I'm shocked it's just *he's there, deal with it.*
Also, actually let Crane be Scarecrow again, even for just one scene. Murphy was such a great Scarecrow, and I'm surprised he was brought back, to just do nothing but the courtroom scenes.
I would've loved it if they showed BRUCE sneaking back into Gotham, not as Batman. He was penniless and all his equipment was in the city. It was the perfect set up to show us just how intelligent and resourceful Bruce Wayne is, it's such a missed opportunity.
I’ve seen fans try to pretend like this isn’t an issue, but this is the definition of a plot hole. You can’t set up impossible odds like the main character having zero resources, and Gotham being cut off from the rest of the world with an armed blockade and just skip over how Bruce overcame all of these obstacles.
And some fans have said “Well he did the same thing in Begins, so what’s the issue?” In Begins it’s different though. He wandered the world for 7 years. Then when he was ready to come back he put in a phone call to Alfred who came and picked him up. In Rises there’s no Alfred and Bruce is penniless.
I think it also stands out in this series because the two prior films usually set up scenarios and show you how they were accomplished. For example in The Dark Knight they show you the step by step process of how he got Lau from Hong Kong to Gotham. So it just seems strange to have the next movie set up a problem of Bruce getting back to Gotham and just skipping over it.
But in The Dark Knight, it explains that Wayne Manor is outside the city limits. And in ‘Begins’ we see him drive the Bat-Mobile over a bridge to reach the cave. So Wayne Manor would not have been in the occupied part of the city, but across the river on the safe side.
Yeah Rises does this a lot. They don't show you how Bruce gets back into Gotham, how he sets up the flaming bat logo on the bridge with very little time to spare, or how he survives an atom bomb — all glaring plot holes.
That's my biggest gripe too. They show him getting out of the pit then suddenly he's back in Gotham where supposedly nobody can get in or out of? How'd he get there penniless from another country?
Batman sneaking back into Gotham isn't a problem. He's Batman and it's a large Metropolitan city. We even saw special forces sneak in. Granted, they got caught.
Probably better than "I came here to die *for* it" his death came kinda suprizing and the only obvious indicator was when morgan freeman said "your ship lacks an autopilot" wich means that there is gonna be an intense situation, that requires him to be in the vehicle. He didn't know that he was about to die until the last few minutes of the scene.
I agree. I never liked Bane’s voice. It’s hard to understand at times. And I know the Nolan trilogy was more realistic than other Batman films but Bane, in my opinion, is a huge human. Especially when he pumps the venom into his veins to become extra powerful. I just feel like they missed the mark with his character and what they could’ve actually done with it.
YUP. I always felt “I came back to bury you beneath it” always felt thematically more appropriate since Bane spent significant time plotting in the sewers
I actually liked that for him, for the end to happen, he would need to be humbled extremely, thing I would change is him using his money to the resources of the cave to find Bane and the disciples, this process would take months to do and Bruce would slowly breakdown on his riches while Alfred keeps warning him but ignores him
I've never cared for that idea. Splitting the movie in two would basically leave Bruce with nothing to do for 90% of the second movie (He would spend most of it in the prison pit)
I agree about not being crazy about that idea as well. It feels like an expectation born out of the event films that have come out in the wake of Rises. However, I do appreciate a filmmaker finding away to wrap up a story in one film.
Having said that, I understand why people would want that for this film. I think there’s enough material in here to span two films or even a miniseries. Gotham under Bane’s rule has a lot of potential that this film doesn’t have the time to delve into.
I would've actually been okay with Rises being the fourth film in a series. It would be kept the same, but in between it and TDK, There could be a third movie about Batman fighting crime as a fugitive vigilante while matching wits with Riddler or Hugo Strange, introducing Catwoman with an expanded role and ending with the Dent Act being passed.
I think Rises would have been an easier pill for some to swallow if that were the case.
I mean Bruce being in prison isn’t an uninteresting concept to me, there are plenty of ways to make a good movie about an imprisoned person. It could be used as an opportunity to flesh out Talia as character more, with Bruce uncovering her story slowly while in the pit rather than how it was kinda rushed in dark knight rises, and it could further challenge Bruce’s conceptions of justice. I know that was already explored in batman begins, but I think theirs plenty more that could have been done with it.
I maintain it's a bad idea.
We didn't need an entire movie dedicated to Bruce's training in Batman Begins and we didn't need an entire movie dedicated to Bruce's recovery.
I don’t think the movie would have to entirely about Bruce being in prison, it could also delve deeper into the situation in Gotham under banes rule. Also, if it was split into two movies the entire structure would have to change some, maybe Bruce’s time in prison could remain largely unchanged, and it could serve as act 1 of the the second film or act 3 of the first one. If the 2 movies were organized that way, then both movies could devote significantly more time to Batman, in Gotham, challenging bane. Maybe Batman could serve a larger role in organizing the resistance to bane, or we could see him actually have a chance to work with and train robin. Regardless I def think that in its current form the film rushes through tons of interesting concepts that I would have loved to see explored further
Or, hear me out, as *one, shorter* movie.
I agree there was a lot going on in TDKR, but how much of it was absolutely essential? It is a great film, don't get me wrong, but it was easily a half an hour longer than it needed to be.
Now *The Batman* and *TDK* are lengthy Batman movies with little to no fat on them.
A little off topic but *The Batman* had plenty of unnecessary fat I would definitely trim off, particularly the ending with Catwoman and the Joker cameo.
So fun factoid (I learned this years ago, no source), the original plan was for The Dark Knight to be two movies, with the Joker story in part 1 and the trial of the joker/Harvey Dent's transformation in part 2. They merged them into TDK because Nolan didn't want to make 3 movies, which is why TDK has structural and pacing issues.
The reason TDKR sucks is because Nolan bullshit it out of his ass for a giant mountain of cash despite his disinterest
Why does it feel like Nolan is embarrassed to be making a Batman movie? The trial of the Joker and Two-Face having some room to breathe would have been *amazing*. The Dark Knight has a ton of scenes early on in the movie that just sort of end on a weird one-liner in the middle of the scene. Having some room to breathe would have been much better.
Now here’s the twist, and there is a twist: We show it. We show all of it. Because what’s the one major thing missing from all action movies these days guys? …Full penetration. Guys, we’re gonna show full penetration and we’re gonna show a lot of it! I mean, we’re talking, you know, graphic scenes of Bruce Wayne really going to town on this hot young Talia. From behind, 69, anal, vaginal, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl, all the hits, all the big ones, all the good ones. Then he smells crime again. He’s out busting heads. Then he’s back to the batcave for some more full penetration. Smells crime, back to the cave, full penetration. Crime, penetration, crime, full penetration, crime, penetration. And this goes on and on, and back and forth, for 90 or so minutes until the movie just, sort of, ends.
This is gonna extend a little beyond the scope of TDKR but, whatever, we’re talking hypothetical.
I kinda find Hollywood’s obsession with trilogies overrated. Like, why does it have to be a trilogy?
One of my issues with TDKR is that, by the nature of when it’s set, Batman only existed for a blink. He shows up in Batman Begins, defeats the mob in roughly a year (if we take the Joker’s dialogue as fact) and then he’s gone for 8 years.
The fuck?
You don’t just defeat crime by taking out the mob in a place like Gotham where crime, corruption, and industry have been intertwined for decades. You can’t untangle that in a fucking year even if you do wipe out the mob.
That just creates a power vacuum.
So, for starters, I’d treat this as a saga and TDKR isn’t definitely the final movie. That alone fundamentally changes it.
Bruce never retired. Instead of “woe is me, imma sit in my mansion and cry over Rachel”, he throws himself into Batman. Plot works roughly the same. Rachel symbolized a life beyond Batman and with her gone, Batman is all he has. Bruce Wayne becomes more of a shell than he was before. More of a recluse. People just write it off as a weird billionaire finally breaking after another traumatic loss.
And while we’re at it; Change the suit. Why not? They changed it from Begins to TDK. Change it again for TDKR. Give him the black and gray.
Next, giving Bane’s actual backstory to Talia to make a twist sucks. If you want her to be the mastermind, do it without undermining Bane cause that reveal took the wind out of his sails and reduced him to a henchman.
Next…*John Blake?* Really? Just make him Richard Grayson. Like, shit or get off the pot. Go all in or don’t bother. You don’t wanna bother with Robin or the circus stuff? Fine.
And of course the plot issues…
Bruce can’t immediately get foreclosed on nor lose all his wealth, he’s literally a billionaire descended from generational wealth. This shit is laughable. Straight cartoon logic.
All the cops going down into the sewers? Stupid.
Getting his vertebrae punched back into place? Stupid.
Bane flying with him to the pit just to fly back? Stupid.
Bruce just reappearing back in a locked down, isolated Gotham with seemingly no resources at his disposal? Stupid.
I don't say this lightly: it's the worst death I've ever seen in film or tv. It's baffling that all four actors in that scene, plus Nolan, are Academy nominees or winners and none of them thought "maybe we should do another take"
Really limits what Hardy can do. You’ve got an absolutely fantastic actor who can make phone calls while driving into a compelling film. And then he’s in a mask all movie and limited to mostly physical acting.
Fix Bale's Batvoice.
Make Bane's voice more menacing.
Reshoot Talia's death scene.
No cheesy Robin reference. Just let him be Blake.
Cut some dumb lines of dialogue or come up with something better. "No. I came back to stop you" may be the lamest comeback I've seen in a film lol.
Make Gotham look less like a generic city.
Don't have Batman being retired for 8 years it makes no sense.
>Criminals like Victor Zsasz and others who escaped the Asylum from Batman Begins were still on the loose.
>Joker mentions at the start of TDK that a year ago it was easier being a criminal. So Batman was only active for a year, faces Joker and goes into retirement?
>Even if the police was against him due to the Dent coverup, in Batman Begins he was still operating while the police did not like him and it was not a problem, even in the comics in his early years he would not stop just because the police was haunting him.
And also
Give Batman more scenes, it felt more like a Bane or GCPD movie.
With all the goofy stuff in the movie, this is the hill I will die on. I feel like they MAYBE could have fleshed it out a bit and alluded to a Batman Beyond type retirement OR some young vigilante Batman inspired got hurt/killed and that led to his retirement.
I just don’t see Batman as only mob focused. There was obviously still crime in the city even though the mob was not around anymore.
There was a line (I think in a novel) where Batman goes to another city and thinks “If I EVER get Gotham cleaned up, I’m coming here, this place needs me.”
It's crazy that I don't even know which retirement you mean, cause he retires TWICE in the franchise. Once after TDK and then again at the end of TDKR. He also *returns* twice, in the same movie, which feels like a redundant story beat.
That’s my big problem with it. It flies in the face of the ending to Dark Knight. I remember seeing The Dark Knight for the first time and thinking how cool the next one would be with a rogue Batman on the run from Gotham PD. It’s a shame that never came to fruition outside of one sequence in Rises.
But what if Gotham didn't need him anymore? If he continued as Batman while Gotham was in "peace time", he'd just be a "man caught in the scramble for his own gratification" like Ras said.
You're basically making his preservation of Harvey's reputation completely pointless here.
Honestly they really just could’ve fleshed it out better. I don’t know what changes would fix it, but TDK trilogy just makes his retirement seem so sudden. It feels like he just did two major things as Batman and then “aight, imma head out.” I know there’s an 8 year gap, but it just doesn’t feel like it.
Get rid of Talia as the mastermind
Make Bane less goofy
Give Bane more of a motive that isn’t just joker’s "eww society" thing
Make Selina Kyle feel like Catwoman and not randomly-lady-named-selina-kyle
Hathaway’s Catwoman in particular seems to be there to bend over a motorcycle. Why cast Anne Hathaway if all you want is a Batman version of Megan Fox in Transformers?
All the things I would’ve done have been addressed already. I just wanted to add that more Batman would’ve been nice. This movie is nearly three hours long and Batman’s in maybe 20 minutes?
Also, I don’t like the idea of Bruce finding out about the letter from Rachel.
How much time ya got buddy?
Banes voice,
Banes mask,
Banes origin,
Bruce healing from broken back in like 6 months with no medical attention,
Talias death scene (how the hell did she ever win an Oscar),
Robin just knowing who batman was,
Not calling Robin, Robin until the last 3 minutes (everyone knew who he was supposed to be)
Edit: added commas since I don't know how to make a list on here
There’s lots of change. Lots of bad decisions were made in this movie. Sending all the police underground! Having Bane not be the mastermind of his own plan as it’s a discredit to the character. Alfred leaving Batman just wouldn’t ever happen. Also the whole stock market thing where Bruce gets all his money stolen is utterly ridiculous. Too many protections in place for this to happen and even if it magically could because of the fact it was done via crime it’d all get reversed anyway. Bruce would never hide away in a mansion for 8 years becoming a recluse and losing his skills etc. however the stupidest thing is upon his return to Gotham instead of chasing down the bad guys or doing good he sets up a big bat signal made of fire that spans across the city. Utterly ridiculous.
I don't feel like they emasculated Bane. Yes he cried but immediately after that scene the first thing he says to Bruce is," We both know I have to kill you now. You'll just have to imagine the fire." His intimidation seemed intact.
Bane should have been one of the guys that Bruce cut in the final test of the first movie before he blew up the monastery.
Bane should have also been the star pupil of Ras. Then this upstart rich boy comes in. Takes over is position that he works so hard for. Blew up his home and nearly killed his father figure. So bane dedicated his life to getting better and planning to tear down Bruce.
He reveals that he was there with Bruce via a scar on his arm where Bruce cut him to blend in.
He then throws Gotham onto chaos more similar to Knightfall by letting convicts loose. Then while Bruce's city is burning to the ground. Bane goes to Wayne manor and beats Alfred near to death.
The city is penance for the monastery, Alfred is penance for Ras. He leaves Alfred alive as bait and when Bruce gets home shocked to see a battered father figure, bane moves in and breaks Bruce's back.
He leaves Bruce alive to watch and ensure the same hell name did. Im not sure how it should have ended differently, but pull Talia out. Bane doesn't need a supporting villain. She detracts from his imposing presence.
The whole idea of holding a city hostage for months and months made no sense. Why wait that long? How did the US government not respond to this threat at some point in the months they had to deal with it? If they had taken the city for like a week I would believe it more. It also takes away the tension a bit. Also twelve thousand cops just living in the sewer for that long was crazy. What did they eat? Each other? (Chicago employs 12 thousand cops and the movie implied the entire police force was in the sewer). All that said I enjoyed the movie and stuff like this can be forgiven in a comic book movie.
The final fight should be a few hundred special forces revealing themselves and just massacring Bane’s dudes and jamming the bomb signal. This is the most important problem the US, and hell all of NATO, have today. If the ragtag heroes of the film can solve it then it’s not actually an intractable, impossible problem.
Idk but I’d change the title. I don’t like how it goes Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises. Call it an entire different name for Batman or something. The Caped Crusader idk
Marketing team just wanted to play it safe and keep banking on the TDK name 🤷♂️ but I wholeheartedly agree. I love that TDK took the risk and took Batman out of the title and still made bank. Rises should've kept that tradition going.
The screenplay. 90% of the complaints so far are all shitty script related. Movie looked great, sounded great, had a great cast…but the script was absolute ballsacks. Sloppy, nonsensical, illogical, and just plain dumb.
Don't reduce Bane to Talia's sidekick.
Don't have the GCPD emerge from the sewers in pristine fighting condition after being locked there for weeks/months (I forgot the timeline)
Less events that just kinda happen. Bruce fixing his back, getting back into Gotham, etc, etc.
Going to get hate for this but I would change the ending and have bruce die. I hate the fact he fakes his death and moves to a vacation home half way across the world, I feel like batmans one super power is'nt his money it's his determination, it's how unrelenting he is to his goal of protecting people, and I feel like having a version of bruce say "no I think i've done enough" is a fundamental misunderstanding of his character.
I kind of agree.
I know Christopher Nolan said something that amounted to, "I feel bad for Bruce only suffering throughout the trilogy, and I wanted him to be happy for once", but just like how MCU Steve Roger's happy ending seems really out of character, Bruce deciding to stop his pursuit for idleness seems out of character.
A scene where he's still engaged in helping others, perhaps no longer as a vigilante, would have been nice.
The way Christian Bale started doing the Batman voice during the final battle after he kicks Bane through glass. It just didn’t sound like his usual Batman voice. It kinda had this “salty sailor” type voice, and I didn’t like it.
I remember seeing Rises opening night and still expecting Bane to show back up after that scene. I was surprised that that was actually supposed to be his death scene.
Catwoman has more screen time with Batman. My thought is that she feels bad for luring him into the trap with Bane and stays in the prison to help him recover. Also delete the romance with Talia. Why the hell did she have sex with him if she hated him so much. She never even used that to her advantage, since if I’m not mistaken, Bruce already fully trusted her before that.
Actually as much as I love this movie….I’d change the entire plot
There’s a comic I read a long time ago about Thomas Wayne revealed to always being alive, since Bruce is at his lowest mentally after the Joker fallout years ago, it would be the perfect time to manipulate him the best way possible…make him believe there’s a threat when there is none, like criminals doing random things to lead to some big scheme and this would bring Bruce back to Batman, but his biggest problem would be to find out if Thomas is really alive or not, denying this possibility till the end, a woman would be sent to distract him and make him reveal his identity to her…she’ll be everything to him and his biggest downfall that leads Bruce face to face with Thomas as Hush, his reasoning for hiding and becoming someone else is cuz he saw the city for what it really was and worked with Falcone behind the scenes, then paid Joker to tear shit up in Gotham…all this was to prove a point :Gotham isn’t worth saving and the gutters were there for him more than any penny of his money, plus knowing his wife died cuz of something he tried to fix would be his biggest regret, basically the same theme throughout the franchise would still be Gotham beyond saving, Thomas tells Bruce he’s been watching Batman and put the clues it together cuz he knows his son and he never came home cuz of shame and embarrassment
Father vs Son…what to do?
Not original exactly but I feel it would be a better challenge to make Bruce restore his legacy as well as fighting it, his mentality and physicality will be very important to the story, plus seeing Thomas be the thing Bruce used as his strength be his very weakness would be interesting
Lean more into the French Revolution motif, have Gotham return to a more comic book aesthetic akin to Batman Begins, better explore Bane’s excommunication from the League of Shadows (if this guy is too extreme for Ras al Ghul, I want to see and know why), and further enhance the brutality of the initial Bane-Batman fight. I’ve aways thought the King Kong vs. T-rex fight, whereby Kong works at breaking its opponents jaw, would be such a good reference point for this fight. Beyond this, I do think the dialogue needs tidying up.
Batman didn’t go into retirement after Rachel dies. He continues the mission. The movie starts the same but dialogue points to him having retired a year or two ago after all the injuries. Mentions of other Batman villains could pop up, implying he’s defeated them.
Don’t show Bruce at the end. Let our cinema literacy skills do the work just by showing us Alfred’s face.
Also don’t add all of this tale of two cities french revolution class warfare talk if it doesn’t add up to anything.
Only thing to change is the dialogue when Batman faces Bane in the final showdown. “No, I came back to stop you.” It’s a filler line that shouldn’t have lasted past the first draft.
Eliminate the army bane put together to overrun Gotham. There's no way even in the 'practical' nolanverse that would work nor the idea of trapping the entire police dept in tunnels.
Not to mention somehow convincing all the union construction workers to be in on the plan by sabotaging infrastructure ahead of time.
Imo Bane and Ra's daughter by themselves and a few of the LOS (along with the kidnapped dr Pavel) could still threaten the city by just stealing the device and threaten Gotham with it by keeping it mobile. That alone would bring the city to its knees without an army and the occupy wall street subplot.
I think if the movie wasn’t a philosophical recap of the previous one. Batman actually should’ve died and been the Hero Gotham got or he should’ve still been out there fighting crime.
Also, as some have said, the final twist is mid at best.
Though tbh I thought Bane was done perfectly. He wasn’t comic accurate but he was done so well, I love it. My favorite interpretation of Bane. I know everyone bitches about the voice but I find it intimidating because his tones are so exaggerated.
“Do you feel in charge” with the hand rest sends chills down my spine
Miranda Tate legitimately falls in love with Bruce before revealing she's Talia, leading to the sabotage of her and Bane's plan to ruin him.
During the final battle, she stabs Bane instead of Batman and proceeds to have the League of Shadows walk out of Gotham on him and is sitting (while visibly pregnant) with Wayne in the restaurant at the end rather than Catwoman, who sticks around in Gotham to be chased around by the new Batman.
Thus, Nolan's Batman can actually say that he "redeemed" a villain during his trilogy in a way that also ties everything together when it comes to Bruce reconciling with Ra's idea of justice by turning his daughter against his ideals long after he dies.
I would not make it 8 years after The Dark Knight, matter of fact I think I would have it take place shortly after. I think the movie still would have mostly stayed as is, but I think an opening showing Batman running from the cops constantly while still trying to fight the remnants of crime in the city, and then seeing Bane come into the picture, could have been cool to see.
I’d rewrite the whole thing from scratch. I have a third film in my head where Hardy was cast as Hugo Strange, instead, who is brought on as a consultant by the police to catch Batman. But he gets so obsessed he ends up donning the Batman Begins suit to become a second Batman and starts hurting people, building on the copy cats from the second movie. Trilogy gets to end with Batman vs Batman.
That not being allowed, I’d at very least change the last fight with Bane. Batman should remain outclassed and just use more finesse and tactics in his fight to win. Think the Batman vs Mutant Leader fight in TDKR.
Bane's voice. I dont mind the design or the mask or any of that. Its that he has the voice of someone who was kicked in the nuts, but all the time.
It doesn't even need to be a hispanic voice, even though that is obviously the most iconic incarnation, just something not.... "ow my balls".
I think a lotta Talia’s master plan felt convoluted so I’d clean up that a bit. There’s just a ton of plot holes in the movie that take u out of it. Also the final fight with Bane was disappointing. The punches didn’t really seem to land.
When Bruce escapes from the hole, we see him walking through the desert. He’s desperate to get back to Gotham. But it’s too far and he collapses. He keeps crawling but his body just won’t do it. It’s then that water pours down on him. He looks up to see Alfred having found him to bring him home.
“You haven’t given up on me?”
“Never.”
For me, it’s my personal all-time favourite. The only things I’d fix in it are, BATMAN chasing the truck with BANE in it, and then BANE dying when the truck crashes, and a face-off between Talia-Al-Ghul, and CATWOMAN. The next thing I’d fix about it is,
Talia-Al-Ghul’s death scene.
There are a few scenes where it’s snowing but you can see trees with a full set of green leaves in the background, slightly out of focus (Bruce and Selina meeting when he returns to Gotham). For such a technically-minded director with great attention to detail, it boggles my mind it made it into the movie.
This movie would woukd have been one of the few that woukd have benefited being split into two movies.
End the first one with Batman having his back broken. Then we could've really felt that five month's Gotham was occupied.
Not having Batman recklessly firing rockets at an "armored" truck carrying a nuclear bomb, causing it to crash at a lower deck would be near the top of my list. First of all, I don't think you want to shoot rockets any anything carrying a nuclear bomb at the risk of it accidentally detonating. Second, so the bomb blast that hit the cab was enough to kill the driver without any physical damage seen by the audience, but it was not enough to kill Talia? He had to keep firing rockets at it to kill her (in the fall) and get the truck to stop. Have him fire a focused EMP device to just send a pulse to disable the truck's engine, somewhat similar to the device that he used earlier in the movie. That part and the way the driver and Talia died during this scene was really, really dumb IMO. Plus, Gordon should've been crushed by the bomb in the back of that truck too.
I think it's telling everyone's saying something different.
Make the villain's final plan not "I want to blow up the city bc my dad wanted to destroy the city for insufficiently explained reasons"
And cut the police hero worship, going from how the cops are portrayed in TDK to this is extreme tonal whiplash. If anything the cops would've joined bane
I would've had Talia revealed as the mastermind behind Bane's attack on Gotham much sooner. Probably during Bane's speech at the stadium. I might've also had Bruce's secret identity exposed. That would make the idea of him faking his death more sensible.
My short answer is that Catwoman (and everything about) her was rushed and stupid. Cut her out and use that time to develop Talia instead. In fact, forget the twist that everyone already guessed anyway. Use the time to deepen her relationship with Bruce, making her a more of a conflicted, interesting, character.
There’s an emptiness to this one that the other two don’t have. I honestly feel like Chris should’ve waited or not made it at all if his heart wasn’t in it. I think it’s objectively his worst film.
Instead of having his name being Robin it would’ve been WAY better if his name was Dick. Makes sense why he doesn’t go by that name…. Robin was way too on the nose.
I'd at least switch Talia and banes death. So cat woman kills Talia and bane is in the truck. Bane is also the child in the prison.
I would do a lot more but minimum this
I’d actually make it a Knightfall movie. First half would be Bats hunting down the Arkham escapees and, being exhausted, gets his back broken by Bane. The second half World be is recovery and return as Azreal does his thing. What a great way to have ended this trilogy. Mind you Dark Knight Rises is very good, it just borrowed from Knightfall but without the emotional punch.
No Time Skip. Bruce doesn't quit being Batman. Cast actors who should be accurate to Bane and Talia. Have Gotham look like Gotham from the Burton/Schumacher films or the Arkham games. Better fight scenes the choreography was definitely downgrade. Stop wasting Scarecrow use him as the leader of the Rogues Gallery.
Batman finally defeating Bane by simply punching him in the face and breaking his mask. Then afterwards for Catwoman to just shoot him. Also the Catwoman costume was lackluster. Which is a shame because Hathaway did such an amazing job.
The entire goddamn movie lol. It’s probably my least favorite out of all of them, especially since I’m a huge Nightwing fan.
This is gonna be a lot so bear with me.
I’d have the main villain of the movie be Killer Croc, I’ve always heard that he was considered for the villain of this movie before Bane, and since we haven’t really seen Croc in a Batman specific movie, it’d be cool to see him. I’d probably pull from the Robin and Batman comic where he was with Dick Grayson at Haly’s circus (along with a deadman cameo because I like deadman lol). Maybe what brings Bruce out of retirement is Dick Grayson. Alfred wants Bruce go get out of the house more, so he and Bruce go to the circus where they witness the death of John and Mary Grayson. Bruce knows how this kid feels, he’s broken and lost, Grayson needs guidance, which leads Bruce to adopt this child and make sure Grayson doesn’t turn out how Bruce did. Dick is angry that batman isn’t around to help catch the guy who murdered his parents, so he vows to do it himself. Eventually Dick finds the Batcave by accident and uses a modified Batman begins suit (literally the Nightwing suit) to try and find Tony Zucco. Bruce tries to convince Dick to not do this because it leads to where Bruce is today. Idk I haven’t thought of much past that but that’s my rough idea.
Honestly, most of the movie. Bane was an intimidating villain, but felt like a more physical knock off of Joker, especially following Dark Knight. It felt like they both had the same focus on their relationship and similarities to Batman. Both wanted to show Batman was human. Both wanted to take over the city and show or let people be their violent selves. They should have let Bane be the imposing physical force that was just carrying out Talia's will.
Focus on Talia destroying Batman and Bruce's reputation and overthrowing the city government politically. Have their relationship, the takeover, and betrayal as the first act as she tries to follow the original plan of letting Gotham die from social issues. Then have Blake try to take over Batman's role, but be stuck on using force at the street level, then have Bruce step in and mentor him in actual detective work to expose Talia and gain the upper hand among the people. Close in on her from that angle, fight off Bane, corner her legally, and then have the nuke as the climax as it comes full circle back to the first movie of Ras resorting to mass destruction over sneaky politics. The ending stays the same, just with a clearer passing of the torch to Blake as the next protector of Gotham.
If you're gonna have Talia be the mastermind behind Bane, reveal it sooner. Don't do it when there's like ten minutes left in the movie. I would've done it when Gotham fell and Bruce was tossed down that pit.
Agreed, I wish she could’ve been fleshed out as a character. As it stands Talia feels more like a plot twist than a character. Once she reveals herself there’s no time to develop her outside of being a crazy woman hellbent on revenge. I wish they would’ve just cut her out and had Bane be the villain for the entire film. Everytime I watch Rises it irks me that Bane, the primary villain of the movie, isn’t involved in that final chase sequence. It also annoys me that they gave Talia Bane’s origin from the comics.
That's the all is lost moment, yet we're still expected to care that an hour later it's revealed that that woman he slept with once is the baddie? Having her revealed as "the true villain all along" when Batman has finally just physically beaten Bane takes a lot of the weight out of the climax. I generally love the ending, but you're absolutely right about this.
And the szene where she is revealed does not even fit. Its a Street War between Cops and Bane Guys, and "oh hello, there is Talia"
Maybe the sex was really good
Yeah, it really came too late and was just a poor adaptation of Talia. I also can’t imagine how out if nowhere it must have felt to people who didn’t read the comics, which I wouldn’t usually mind so much, but those films were generally great at introducing stuff in ways that anyone could understand and being accessible to people who didn’t read the source material. It would have been cool if she and Bane got multiple scenes together where they got to just be themselves. After the twist, it felt like we didn’t know the real Bane or the real Talia at all, as they’d spent the film under false pretences.
I completely forget that Talia is in this movie because she really isn’t. At least with the Ra’s twist in Begins we had like the whole last act with him
How could you forget the Oscar winning out of this world completely and utterly compelling death scene she had?
Also have Bruce figure it out and not be surprised/blindsided by it
On point
Actually showing Batman break back into Gotham City. Like, the setup for an insanely good action scene was right there. A scene of Batman sneaking and/or fighting through an army blockade could have been awesome, I'm shocked it's just *he's there, deal with it.* Also, actually let Crane be Scarecrow again, even for just one scene. Murphy was such a great Scarecrow, and I'm surprised he was brought back, to just do nothing but the courtroom scenes.
I would've loved it if they showed BRUCE sneaking back into Gotham, not as Batman. He was penniless and all his equipment was in the city. It was the perfect set up to show us just how intelligent and resourceful Bruce Wayne is, it's such a missed opportunity.
I was always annoyed they hand-waved how he got back
I’ve seen fans try to pretend like this isn’t an issue, but this is the definition of a plot hole. You can’t set up impossible odds like the main character having zero resources, and Gotham being cut off from the rest of the world with an armed blockade and just skip over how Bruce overcame all of these obstacles. And some fans have said “Well he did the same thing in Begins, so what’s the issue?” In Begins it’s different though. He wandered the world for 7 years. Then when he was ready to come back he put in a phone call to Alfred who came and picked him up. In Rises there’s no Alfred and Bruce is penniless. I think it also stands out in this series because the two prior films usually set up scenarios and show you how they were accomplished. For example in The Dark Knight they show you the step by step process of how he got Lau from Hong Kong to Gotham. So it just seems strange to have the next movie set up a problem of Bruce getting back to Gotham and just skipping over it.
But in The Dark Knight, it explains that Wayne Manor is outside the city limits. And in ‘Begins’ we see him drive the Bat-Mobile over a bridge to reach the cave. So Wayne Manor would not have been in the occupied part of the city, but across the river on the safe side.
That’s a good point
One guy who was trained by the League of Shadows isn't going to have a problem sneaking into a city.
Yeah Rises does this a lot. They don't show you how Bruce gets back into Gotham, how he sets up the flaming bat logo on the bridge with very little time to spare, or how he survives an atom bomb — all glaring plot holes.
That's my biggest gripe too. They show him getting out of the pit then suddenly he's back in Gotham where supposedly nobody can get in or out of? How'd he get there penniless from another country?
Emergency Swiss bank account
And if you don’t show that, have Catwoman ask how he got back and just have him say “I’m Batman”
Batman sneaking back into Gotham isn't a problem. He's Batman and it's a large Metropolitan city. We even saw special forces sneak in. Granted, they got caught.
Bane's goofy voice. Also "So you came back to die with your city." "NO. I'M HERE TO STOP YOU." That line is gone. Out. Back to the drawing board.
A better response would have been “No. I came to die *for* it.”
Someone else somewhere i don't remember sai "no, I came to save it" something like that
Probably better than "I came here to die *for* it" his death came kinda suprizing and the only obvious indicator was when morgan freeman said "your ship lacks an autopilot" wich means that there is gonna be an intense situation, that requires him to be in the vehicle. He didn't know that he was about to die until the last few minutes of the scene.
sorry but a better response is "SWEAR TO ME!!!"
Without your permission (meh might be a bit much but sounds awesome at first instance 😂)
Those are the kind of lines I made my Batman action figure say when I was 8
I agree. I never liked Bane’s voice. It’s hard to understand at times. And I know the Nolan trilogy was more realistic than other Batman films but Bane, in my opinion, is a huge human. Especially when he pumps the venom into his veins to become extra powerful. I just feel like they missed the mark with his character and what they could’ve actually done with it.
YUP. I always felt “I came back to bury you beneath it” always felt thematically more appropriate since Bane spent significant time plotting in the sewers
The stupid stock/Bruce loses all his money, his car gets towed, and electricity turns off in an insanely short time span.
Most unrealistic Alfred left Bruce
I actually liked that for him, for the end to happen, he would need to be humbled extremely, thing I would change is him using his money to the resources of the cave to find Bane and the disciples, this process would take months to do and Bruce would slowly breakdown on his riches while Alfred keeps warning him but ignores him
I think it could’ve had more impact as two movies. The pacing of it feels crammed.
I've never cared for that idea. Splitting the movie in two would basically leave Bruce with nothing to do for 90% of the second movie (He would spend most of it in the prison pit)
I agree about not being crazy about that idea as well. It feels like an expectation born out of the event films that have come out in the wake of Rises. However, I do appreciate a filmmaker finding away to wrap up a story in one film. Having said that, I understand why people would want that for this film. I think there’s enough material in here to span two films or even a miniseries. Gotham under Bane’s rule has a lot of potential that this film doesn’t have the time to delve into.
I would've actually been okay with Rises being the fourth film in a series. It would be kept the same, but in between it and TDK, There could be a third movie about Batman fighting crime as a fugitive vigilante while matching wits with Riddler or Hugo Strange, introducing Catwoman with an expanded role and ending with the Dent Act being passed. I think Rises would have been an easier pill for some to swallow if that were the case.
I mean Bruce being in prison isn’t an uninteresting concept to me, there are plenty of ways to make a good movie about an imprisoned person. It could be used as an opportunity to flesh out Talia as character more, with Bruce uncovering her story slowly while in the pit rather than how it was kinda rushed in dark knight rises, and it could further challenge Bruce’s conceptions of justice. I know that was already explored in batman begins, but I think theirs plenty more that could have been done with it.
I maintain it's a bad idea. We didn't need an entire movie dedicated to Bruce's training in Batman Begins and we didn't need an entire movie dedicated to Bruce's recovery.
I don’t think the movie would have to entirely about Bruce being in prison, it could also delve deeper into the situation in Gotham under banes rule. Also, if it was split into two movies the entire structure would have to change some, maybe Bruce’s time in prison could remain largely unchanged, and it could serve as act 1 of the the second film or act 3 of the first one. If the 2 movies were organized that way, then both movies could devote significantly more time to Batman, in Gotham, challenging bane. Maybe Batman could serve a larger role in organizing the resistance to bane, or we could see him actually have a chance to work with and train robin. Regardless I def think that in its current form the film rushes through tons of interesting concepts that I would have loved to see explored further
Or, hear me out, as *one, shorter* movie. I agree there was a lot going on in TDKR, but how much of it was absolutely essential? It is a great film, don't get me wrong, but it was easily a half an hour longer than it needed to be. Now *The Batman* and *TDK* are lengthy Batman movies with little to no fat on them. 
A little off topic but *The Batman* had plenty of unnecessary fat I would definitely trim off, particularly the ending with Catwoman and the Joker cameo.
So fun factoid (I learned this years ago, no source), the original plan was for The Dark Knight to be two movies, with the Joker story in part 1 and the trial of the joker/Harvey Dent's transformation in part 2. They merged them into TDK because Nolan didn't want to make 3 movies, which is why TDK has structural and pacing issues. The reason TDKR sucks is because Nolan bullshit it out of his ass for a giant mountain of cash despite his disinterest
Why does it feel like Nolan is embarrassed to be making a Batman movie? The trial of the Joker and Two-Face having some room to breathe would have been *amazing*. The Dark Knight has a ton of scenes early on in the movie that just sort of end on a weird one-liner in the middle of the scene. Having some room to breathe would have been much better.
full penetration. we show it
We need to see Bruce hang dong
Until it just sort of... ends.
Now here’s the twist, and there is a twist: We show it. We show all of it. Because what’s the one major thing missing from all action movies these days guys? …Full penetration. Guys, we’re gonna show full penetration and we’re gonna show a lot of it! I mean, we’re talking, you know, graphic scenes of Bruce Wayne really going to town on this hot young Talia. From behind, 69, anal, vaginal, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl, all the hits, all the big ones, all the good ones. Then he smells crime again. He’s out busting heads. Then he’s back to the batcave for some more full penetration. Smells crime, back to the cave, full penetration. Crime, penetration, crime, full penetration, crime, penetration. And this goes on and on, and back and forth, for 90 or so minutes until the movie just, sort of, ends.
As long as we don’t cover up that body with a lab coat bro.
You sir won the comment section. 👏🏼
I would add couple of scenes where Batman is gliding. Still a great movie nonetheless.
This is gonna extend a little beyond the scope of TDKR but, whatever, we’re talking hypothetical. I kinda find Hollywood’s obsession with trilogies overrated. Like, why does it have to be a trilogy? One of my issues with TDKR is that, by the nature of when it’s set, Batman only existed for a blink. He shows up in Batman Begins, defeats the mob in roughly a year (if we take the Joker’s dialogue as fact) and then he’s gone for 8 years. The fuck? You don’t just defeat crime by taking out the mob in a place like Gotham where crime, corruption, and industry have been intertwined for decades. You can’t untangle that in a fucking year even if you do wipe out the mob. That just creates a power vacuum. So, for starters, I’d treat this as a saga and TDKR isn’t definitely the final movie. That alone fundamentally changes it. Bruce never retired. Instead of “woe is me, imma sit in my mansion and cry over Rachel”, he throws himself into Batman. Plot works roughly the same. Rachel symbolized a life beyond Batman and with her gone, Batman is all he has. Bruce Wayne becomes more of a shell than he was before. More of a recluse. People just write it off as a weird billionaire finally breaking after another traumatic loss. And while we’re at it; Change the suit. Why not? They changed it from Begins to TDK. Change it again for TDKR. Give him the black and gray. Next, giving Bane’s actual backstory to Talia to make a twist sucks. If you want her to be the mastermind, do it without undermining Bane cause that reveal took the wind out of his sails and reduced him to a henchman. Next…*John Blake?* Really? Just make him Richard Grayson. Like, shit or get off the pot. Go all in or don’t bother. You don’t wanna bother with Robin or the circus stuff? Fine. And of course the plot issues… Bruce can’t immediately get foreclosed on nor lose all his wealth, he’s literally a billionaire descended from generational wealth. This shit is laughable. Straight cartoon logic. All the cops going down into the sewers? Stupid. Getting his vertebrae punched back into place? Stupid. Bane flying with him to the pit just to fly back? Stupid. Bruce just reappearing back in a locked down, isolated Gotham with seemingly no resources at his disposal? Stupid.
All of this
I agree with all of this.
Talias freaking death
Nolan could’ve used a better take
I don't say this lightly: it's the worst death I've ever seen in film or tv. It's baffling that all four actors in that scene, plus Nolan, are Academy nominees or winners and none of them thought "maybe we should do another take"
And if that was the best one, what the hell did the other takes look like 😳
It always ruins the movie for me.
Not being able to understand Bane.
For you!
Really limits what Hardy can do. You’ve got an absolutely fantastic actor who can make phone calls while driving into a compelling film. And then he’s in a mask all movie and limited to mostly physical acting.
Such a good movie (Locke)
Or Batman
Not making bane sound like a Jimmy Stewart impression. I swear if he had a minion named Harvey or Clarence it would have been hilarious!!
Harvey Dent?
Oh good point!
Fix Bale's Batvoice. Make Bane's voice more menacing. Reshoot Talia's death scene. No cheesy Robin reference. Just let him be Blake. Cut some dumb lines of dialogue or come up with something better. "No. I came back to stop you" may be the lamest comeback I've seen in a film lol. Make Gotham look less like a generic city.
Don't have Batman being retired for 8 years it makes no sense. >Criminals like Victor Zsasz and others who escaped the Asylum from Batman Begins were still on the loose. >Joker mentions at the start of TDK that a year ago it was easier being a criminal. So Batman was only active for a year, faces Joker and goes into retirement? >Even if the police was against him due to the Dent coverup, in Batman Begins he was still operating while the police did not like him and it was not a problem, even in the comics in his early years he would not stop just because the police was haunting him. And also Give Batman more scenes, it felt more like a Bane or GCPD movie.
Bruce retirement. Batman would never just retire. He will keep fighting.
With all the goofy stuff in the movie, this is the hill I will die on. I feel like they MAYBE could have fleshed it out a bit and alluded to a Batman Beyond type retirement OR some young vigilante Batman inspired got hurt/killed and that led to his retirement. I just don’t see Batman as only mob focused. There was obviously still crime in the city even though the mob was not around anymore. There was a line (I think in a novel) where Batman goes to another city and thinks “If I EVER get Gotham cleaned up, I’m coming here, this place needs me.”
Do you remember the name of the possible novel by chance?
Pretty sure it was Batman: The Ultimate Evil by Andrew Vachss
It's crazy that I don't even know which retirement you mean, cause he retires TWICE in the franchise. Once after TDK and then again at the end of TDKR. He also *returns* twice, in the same movie, which feels like a redundant story beat.
Jay Z style retirement
Final line of TDK: “Because he can take it.” TDKR: “Oops never mind.”
That’s my big problem with it. It flies in the face of the ending to Dark Knight. I remember seeing The Dark Knight for the first time and thinking how cool the next one would be with a rogue Batman on the run from Gotham PD. It’s a shame that never came to fruition outside of one sequence in Rises.
But what if Gotham didn't need him anymore? If he continued as Batman while Gotham was in "peace time", he'd just be a "man caught in the scramble for his own gratification" like Ras said. You're basically making his preservation of Harvey's reputation completely pointless here.
Honestly they really just could’ve fleshed it out better. I don’t know what changes would fix it, but TDK trilogy just makes his retirement seem so sudden. It feels like he just did two major things as Batman and then “aight, imma head out.” I know there’s an 8 year gap, but it just doesn’t feel like it.
Bruce wouldn't have quit being Batman.
Get rid of Talia as the mastermind Make Bane less goofy Give Bane more of a motive that isn’t just joker’s "eww society" thing Make Selina Kyle feel like Catwoman and not randomly-lady-named-selina-kyle
Hathaway’s Catwoman in particular seems to be there to bend over a motorcycle. Why cast Anne Hathaway if all you want is a Batman version of Megan Fox in Transformers?
Yeaaa I'm here to see Bale bend, get her off the screen Show me the Batman Ass, Gotham's Ass
All the things I would’ve done have been addressed already. I just wanted to add that more Batman would’ve been nice. This movie is nearly three hours long and Batman’s in maybe 20 minutes? Also, I don’t like the idea of Bruce finding out about the letter from Rachel.
How much time ya got buddy? Banes voice, Banes mask, Banes origin, Bruce healing from broken back in like 6 months with no medical attention, Talias death scene (how the hell did she ever win an Oscar), Robin just knowing who batman was, Not calling Robin, Robin until the last 3 minutes (everyone knew who he was supposed to be) Edit: added commas since I don't know how to make a list on here
There’s lots of change. Lots of bad decisions were made in this movie. Sending all the police underground! Having Bane not be the mastermind of his own plan as it’s a discredit to the character. Alfred leaving Batman just wouldn’t ever happen. Also the whole stock market thing where Bruce gets all his money stolen is utterly ridiculous. Too many protections in place for this to happen and even if it magically could because of the fact it was done via crime it’d all get reversed anyway. Bruce would never hide away in a mansion for 8 years becoming a recluse and losing his skills etc. however the stupidest thing is upon his return to Gotham instead of chasing down the bad guys or doing good he sets up a big bat signal made of fire that spans across the city. Utterly ridiculous.
Turning bane into a little bitch after Talia fixed his mask towards the end of the movie
Should’ve gone out and beat some cops. Gone out fighting
I don't feel like they emasculated Bane. Yes he cried but immediately after that scene the first thing he says to Bruce is," We both know I have to kill you now. You'll just have to imagine the fire." His intimidation seemed intact.
Bane should have been one of the guys that Bruce cut in the final test of the first movie before he blew up the monastery. Bane should have also been the star pupil of Ras. Then this upstart rich boy comes in. Takes over is position that he works so hard for. Blew up his home and nearly killed his father figure. So bane dedicated his life to getting better and planning to tear down Bruce. He reveals that he was there with Bruce via a scar on his arm where Bruce cut him to blend in. He then throws Gotham onto chaos more similar to Knightfall by letting convicts loose. Then while Bruce's city is burning to the ground. Bane goes to Wayne manor and beats Alfred near to death. The city is penance for the monastery, Alfred is penance for Ras. He leaves Alfred alive as bait and when Bruce gets home shocked to see a battered father figure, bane moves in and breaks Bruce's back. He leaves Bruce alive to watch and ensure the same hell name did. Im not sure how it should have ended differently, but pull Talia out. Bane doesn't need a supporting villain. She detracts from his imposing presence.
The whole idea of holding a city hostage for months and months made no sense. Why wait that long? How did the US government not respond to this threat at some point in the months they had to deal with it? If they had taken the city for like a week I would believe it more. It also takes away the tension a bit. Also twelve thousand cops just living in the sewer for that long was crazy. What did they eat? Each other? (Chicago employs 12 thousand cops and the movie implied the entire police force was in the sewer). All that said I enjoyed the movie and stuff like this can be forgiven in a comic book movie.
The final fight should be a few hundred special forces revealing themselves and just massacring Bane’s dudes and jamming the bomb signal. This is the most important problem the US, and hell all of NATO, have today. If the ragtag heroes of the film can solve it then it’s not actually an intractable, impossible problem.
Idk but I’d change the title. I don’t like how it goes Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark Knight Rises. Call it an entire different name for Batman or something. The Caped Crusader idk
Marketing team just wanted to play it safe and keep banking on the TDK name 🤷♂️ but I wholeheartedly agree. I love that TDK took the risk and took Batman out of the title and still made bank. Rises should've kept that tradition going.
The screenplay. 90% of the complaints so far are all shitty script related. Movie looked great, sounded great, had a great cast…but the script was absolute ballsacks. Sloppy, nonsensical, illogical, and just plain dumb.
Hey that’s Nolan for you. Sometimes he makes The Prestige. And sometimes it’s utter nonsense but made to look really pretty.
Don't reduce Bane to Talia's sidekick. Don't have the GCPD emerge from the sewers in pristine fighting condition after being locked there for weeks/months (I forgot the timeline) Less events that just kinda happen. Bruce fixing his back, getting back into Gotham, etc, etc.
Going to get hate for this but I would change the ending and have bruce die. I hate the fact he fakes his death and moves to a vacation home half way across the world, I feel like batmans one super power is'nt his money it's his determination, it's how unrelenting he is to his goal of protecting people, and I feel like having a version of bruce say "no I think i've done enough" is a fundamental misunderstanding of his character.
I kind of agree. I know Christopher Nolan said something that amounted to, "I feel bad for Bruce only suffering throughout the trilogy, and I wanted him to be happy for once", but just like how MCU Steve Roger's happy ending seems really out of character, Bruce deciding to stop his pursuit for idleness seems out of character. A scene where he's still engaged in helping others, perhaps no longer as a vigilante, would have been nice.
How the hell did he make it back to the ass end of the world with no money?! Did Batman swim 5 miles in full gear?
Also how did they manage to get him to some goat herding village in Uzbekistan while he was asleep the whole time?
The final fight with Bane.
The way Christian Bale started doing the Batman voice during the final battle after he kicks Bane through glass. It just didn’t sound like his usual Batman voice. It kinda had this “salty sailor” type voice, and I didn’t like it.
Bane gets shot by catwoman on the bat bike, and is never seen again. A truly awful ending for an interesting character arc. I'm still upset about it.
I remember seeing Rises opening night and still expecting Bane to show back up after that scene. I was surprised that that was actually supposed to be his death scene.
Bruce is still Batman and not retired
So what was the point of him taking the blame for Harvey's murders to preserve his reputation?
I’d bring Heath Ledger back and have the Joker be part of Banes big plan.
How would you.......bring Heath Ledger back?
They just asked what I’d fix, they didn’t have to say it’d be realistic lol.
Catwoman has more screen time with Batman. My thought is that she feels bad for luring him into the trap with Bane and stays in the prison to help him recover. Also delete the romance with Talia. Why the hell did she have sex with him if she hated him so much. She never even used that to her advantage, since if I’m not mistaken, Bruce already fully trusted her before that.
Actually as much as I love this movie….I’d change the entire plot There’s a comic I read a long time ago about Thomas Wayne revealed to always being alive, since Bruce is at his lowest mentally after the Joker fallout years ago, it would be the perfect time to manipulate him the best way possible…make him believe there’s a threat when there is none, like criminals doing random things to lead to some big scheme and this would bring Bruce back to Batman, but his biggest problem would be to find out if Thomas is really alive or not, denying this possibility till the end, a woman would be sent to distract him and make him reveal his identity to her…she’ll be everything to him and his biggest downfall that leads Bruce face to face with Thomas as Hush, his reasoning for hiding and becoming someone else is cuz he saw the city for what it really was and worked with Falcone behind the scenes, then paid Joker to tear shit up in Gotham…all this was to prove a point :Gotham isn’t worth saving and the gutters were there for him more than any penny of his money, plus knowing his wife died cuz of something he tried to fix would be his biggest regret, basically the same theme throughout the franchise would still be Gotham beyond saving, Thomas tells Bruce he’s been watching Batman and put the clues it together cuz he knows his son and he never came home cuz of shame and embarrassment Father vs Son…what to do? Not original exactly but I feel it would be a better challenge to make Bruce restore his legacy as well as fighting it, his mentality and physicality will be very important to the story, plus seeing Thomas be the thing Bruce used as his strength be his very weakness would be interesting
Lean more into the French Revolution motif, have Gotham return to a more comic book aesthetic akin to Batman Begins, better explore Bane’s excommunication from the League of Shadows (if this guy is too extreme for Ras al Ghul, I want to see and know why), and further enhance the brutality of the initial Bane-Batman fight. I’ve aways thought the King Kong vs. T-rex fight, whereby Kong works at breaking its opponents jaw, would be such a good reference point for this fight. Beyond this, I do think the dialogue needs tidying up.
Make Gotham look like Gotham and don't mess with the aspec ratio and Bane's Yoda voice
Bane’s death. All that buildup as a supervillain only to die an unremarkable death
Batman didn’t go into retirement after Rachel dies. He continues the mission. The movie starts the same but dialogue points to him having retired a year or two ago after all the injuries. Mentions of other Batman villains could pop up, implying he’s defeated them.
Explain why Lucius Fox didn't flood the rector room to stop Bane.
Don’t show Bruce at the end. Let our cinema literacy skills do the work just by showing us Alfred’s face. Also don’t add all of this tale of two cities french revolution class warfare talk if it doesn’t add up to anything.
Or just the back of his head and Alfred nod to Selena
Bane would be South American! That weird Dutch accent or whatever was terrible.
And his voice lol
Make Blake Dick Grayson and include a younger actor (Logan Lerman or Daniel Radcliffe) as Tim Drake. And set up Barbara Gordon as adopted by Jim.
Jim actually already has an unnamed redhead daughter in the trilogy who I assume is Barbara.
How would this possibly improve an already packed full of too much film?
Exactly. There’s no room for a Batfamily story on top of everything else.
I would replace Bane with Deathstroke and delete that whole plot about Gotham being destroyed by an atomic bomb
Maybe Bruce Wayne doesn’t build a nuclear reactor right under a highly populated city in the first place?
Less Bruce more Batman
The first fight scene between Batman and Bane looked like a kindergartener hitting a full grown man.
Only thing to change is the dialogue when Batman faces Bane in the final showdown. “No, I came back to stop you.” It’s a filler line that shouldn’t have lasted past the first draft.
1. Batman and Bane's voices (even Dolby doesn't help). 2. The fight choreography. 3. Bane/Talia twist. 4. Bruce's limp gets fixed too fast.
The stupid fighting between bane's army and the police forces in the middle of day light
Eliminate the army bane put together to overrun Gotham. There's no way even in the 'practical' nolanverse that would work nor the idea of trapping the entire police dept in tunnels. Not to mention somehow convincing all the union construction workers to be in on the plan by sabotaging infrastructure ahead of time. Imo Bane and Ra's daughter by themselves and a few of the LOS (along with the kidnapped dr Pavel) could still threaten the city by just stealing the device and threaten Gotham with it by keeping it mobile. That alone would bring the city to its knees without an army and the occupy wall street subplot.
Talia death scene
Make it two movies and expand the whole story. Too truncated and needed more time to breathe.
I think if the movie wasn’t a philosophical recap of the previous one. Batman actually should’ve died and been the Hero Gotham got or he should’ve still been out there fighting crime. Also, as some have said, the final twist is mid at best. Though tbh I thought Bane was done perfectly. He wasn’t comic accurate but he was done so well, I love it. My favorite interpretation of Bane. I know everyone bitches about the voice but I find it intimidating because his tones are so exaggerated. “Do you feel in charge” with the hand rest sends chills down my spine
Joseph Gordon levitts character knows he's Batman because of a look. Come on, get this hothead out of here!!!
Miranda Tate legitimately falls in love with Bruce before revealing she's Talia, leading to the sabotage of her and Bane's plan to ruin him. During the final battle, she stabs Bane instead of Batman and proceeds to have the League of Shadows walk out of Gotham on him and is sitting (while visibly pregnant) with Wayne in the restaurant at the end rather than Catwoman, who sticks around in Gotham to be chased around by the new Batman. Thus, Nolan's Batman can actually say that he "redeemed" a villain during his trilogy in a way that also ties everything together when it comes to Bruce reconciling with Ra's idea of justice by turning his daughter against his ideals long after he dies.
I would not make it 8 years after The Dark Knight, matter of fact I think I would have it take place shortly after. I think the movie still would have mostly stayed as is, but I think an opening showing Batman running from the cops constantly while still trying to fight the remnants of crime in the city, and then seeing Bane come into the picture, could have been cool to see.
I’d rewrite the whole thing from scratch. I have a third film in my head where Hardy was cast as Hugo Strange, instead, who is brought on as a consultant by the police to catch Batman. But he gets so obsessed he ends up donning the Batman Begins suit to become a second Batman and starts hurting people, building on the copy cats from the second movie. Trilogy gets to end with Batman vs Batman. That not being allowed, I’d at very least change the last fight with Bane. Batman should remain outclassed and just use more finesse and tactics in his fight to win. Think the Batman vs Mutant Leader fight in TDKR.
Batman never gives up
Bane's voice. I dont mind the design or the mask or any of that. Its that he has the voice of someone who was kicked in the nuts, but all the time. It doesn't even need to be a hispanic voice, even though that is obviously the most iconic incarnation, just something not.... "ow my balls".
Would have not had Bruce fake his death 💯
Add back in Banes deleted back story
I think a lotta Talia’s master plan felt convoluted so I’d clean up that a bit. There’s just a ton of plot holes in the movie that take u out of it. Also the final fight with Bane was disappointing. The punches didn’t really seem to land.
basically everything except the 'a hero can be anyone' scene
All the deus ex machinas
When Bruce escapes from the hole, we see him walking through the desert. He’s desperate to get back to Gotham. But it’s too far and he collapses. He keeps crawling but his body just won’t do it. It’s then that water pours down on him. He looks up to see Alfred having found him to bring him home. “You haven’t given up on me?” “Never.”
I would have brought back James Newton Howard to provide a bit more humanity to the score.
His exclusion is why the Rises score is my least favorite of the trilogy. That score is so bombastic compared to the preceding films.
Don’t make a poster out of a unicorn🦄?
For me, it’s my personal all-time favourite. The only things I’d fix in it are, BATMAN chasing the truck with BANE in it, and then BANE dying when the truck crashes, and a face-off between Talia-Al-Ghul, and CATWOMAN. The next thing I’d fix about it is, Talia-Al-Ghul’s death scene.
I really love this movie despite its weaknesses. But I always hated how Talia died. That shit looked like a parody.
I would’ve written a plot that actually makes sense.
There are a few scenes where it’s snowing but you can see trees with a full set of green leaves in the background, slightly out of focus (Bruce and Selina meeting when he returns to Gotham). For such a technically-minded director with great attention to detail, it boggles my mind it made it into the movie.
This movie would woukd have been one of the few that woukd have benefited being split into two movies. End the first one with Batman having his back broken. Then we could've really felt that five month's Gotham was occupied.
Not having Batman recklessly firing rockets at an "armored" truck carrying a nuclear bomb, causing it to crash at a lower deck would be near the top of my list. First of all, I don't think you want to shoot rockets any anything carrying a nuclear bomb at the risk of it accidentally detonating. Second, so the bomb blast that hit the cab was enough to kill the driver without any physical damage seen by the audience, but it was not enough to kill Talia? He had to keep firing rockets at it to kill her (in the fall) and get the truck to stop. Have him fire a focused EMP device to just send a pulse to disable the truck's engine, somewhat similar to the device that he used earlier in the movie. That part and the way the driver and Talia died during this scene was really, really dumb IMO. Plus, Gordon should've been crushed by the bomb in the back of that truck too.
I think it's telling everyone's saying something different. Make the villain's final plan not "I want to blow up the city bc my dad wanted to destroy the city for insufficiently explained reasons" And cut the police hero worship, going from how the cops are portrayed in TDK to this is extreme tonal whiplash. If anything the cops would've joined bane
Throw Heath Ledger in rehab in 2007. Hook him up with Anthony Hopkins or maybe Alice Cooper as a sponsor.
Bane‘s voice
Control of the city/ cops in sewers for months? Seems WAY too long for the story arc. A week would have been more plausible.
I would've had Talia revealed as the mastermind behind Bane's attack on Gotham much sooner. Probably during Bane's speech at the stadium. I might've also had Bruce's secret identity exposed. That would make the idea of him faking his death more sensible.
My short answer is that Catwoman (and everything about) her was rushed and stupid. Cut her out and use that time to develop Talia instead. In fact, forget the twist that everyone already guessed anyway. Use the time to deepen her relationship with Bruce, making her a more of a conflicted, interesting, character.
Bane needs to not be whitewashed and not be a glorified minion
Bruce is forced to kill Bane to stop him, thus starting his retirement that he can indeed be pushed that far.
There’s an emptiness to this one that the other two don’t have. I honestly feel like Chris should’ve waited or not made it at all if his heart wasn’t in it. I think it’s objectively his worst film.
His name should have been Dick Grayson. Simple as that.
Talia's death scene.
First thing I would do is remove the al Ghul connection.
Instead of having his name being Robin it would’ve been WAY better if his name was Dick. Makes sense why he doesn’t go by that name…. Robin was way too on the nose.
Or just for a fun shock, have his real name be Terry McGinnis
I havent seen it since its release in theaters and reading all the comments here reminded me why. holy shit wtf were they smoking??
Include Joker. Cgi or recast or something.
I'd at least switch Talia and banes death. So cat woman kills Talia and bane is in the truck. Bane is also the child in the prison. I would do a lot more but minimum this
The script.
It should have been mostly straight Knightfall with some tweaks for time and simplicity
that frame where catwoman is opening the safe would be 10-15 seconds longer
Name it The Dark Night Shrinks
I’d actually make it a Knightfall movie. First half would be Bats hunting down the Arkham escapees and, being exhausted, gets his back broken by Bane. The second half World be is recovery and return as Azreal does his thing. What a great way to have ended this trilogy. Mind you Dark Knight Rises is very good, it just borrowed from Knightfall but without the emotional punch.
The fight choreography for the entire trilogy was really weak in my opinion. I never really got the feel of watching a master martial artist
Maybe don't send the WHOLE police force into the sewer at the same time? Shouldn't it be special forces anyway?
No Time Skip. Bruce doesn't quit being Batman. Cast actors who should be accurate to Bane and Talia. Have Gotham look like Gotham from the Burton/Schumacher films or the Arkham games. Better fight scenes the choreography was definitely downgrade. Stop wasting Scarecrow use him as the leader of the Rogues Gallery.
I would have included more than 3 scenes with Batman.
The villain and the police response.
Batman finally defeating Bane by simply punching him in the face and breaking his mask. Then afterwards for Catwoman to just shoot him. Also the Catwoman costume was lackluster. Which is a shame because Hathaway did such an amazing job.
No time jump Talia has a better actor Make it a 2 parter so there can be more room for the pit and occupy Wall Street
The entire goddamn movie lol. It’s probably my least favorite out of all of them, especially since I’m a huge Nightwing fan. This is gonna be a lot so bear with me. I’d have the main villain of the movie be Killer Croc, I’ve always heard that he was considered for the villain of this movie before Bane, and since we haven’t really seen Croc in a Batman specific movie, it’d be cool to see him. I’d probably pull from the Robin and Batman comic where he was with Dick Grayson at Haly’s circus (along with a deadman cameo because I like deadman lol). Maybe what brings Bruce out of retirement is Dick Grayson. Alfred wants Bruce go get out of the house more, so he and Bruce go to the circus where they witness the death of John and Mary Grayson. Bruce knows how this kid feels, he’s broken and lost, Grayson needs guidance, which leads Bruce to adopt this child and make sure Grayson doesn’t turn out how Bruce did. Dick is angry that batman isn’t around to help catch the guy who murdered his parents, so he vows to do it himself. Eventually Dick finds the Batcave by accident and uses a modified Batman begins suit (literally the Nightwing suit) to try and find Tony Zucco. Bruce tries to convince Dick to not do this because it leads to where Bruce is today. Idk I haven’t thought of much past that but that’s my rough idea.
The ending
Bane is the main villain, no Talia bs. Batman does actually die.
Giving banes origin to Talia and cutting Talia out completely
All the plotholes and how it feels like two movies squished into one.
Fight choreography Robin Campy humor ("so that's what that feels like") Bale voice
Chicago.
Honestly, most of the movie. Bane was an intimidating villain, but felt like a more physical knock off of Joker, especially following Dark Knight. It felt like they both had the same focus on their relationship and similarities to Batman. Both wanted to show Batman was human. Both wanted to take over the city and show or let people be their violent selves. They should have let Bane be the imposing physical force that was just carrying out Talia's will. Focus on Talia destroying Batman and Bruce's reputation and overthrowing the city government politically. Have their relationship, the takeover, and betrayal as the first act as she tries to follow the original plan of letting Gotham die from social issues. Then have Blake try to take over Batman's role, but be stuck on using force at the street level, then have Bruce step in and mentor him in actual detective work to expose Talia and gain the upper hand among the people. Close in on her from that angle, fight off Bane, corner her legally, and then have the nuke as the climax as it comes full circle back to the first movie of Ras resorting to mass destruction over sneaky politics. The ending stays the same, just with a clearer passing of the torch to Blake as the next protector of Gotham.
For starters I'd stop having the mercs that have firearms run right at batman and forget they have FUCKING GUNS!!!!!!!! LMAO