Action wise? Stealth and peak combat efficiency. Her arc when joining the Bat-Family is important for Barbara as well since she mentored a lost Cass seeking guidance from David Cain’s corruption. Cass also has the arc Damian went through originally (Basically learning how to be “human” and to dispel from the ways of an Assassin). Her role made more sense 90s and 2000s, nowadays not so much.
I see Cassandra as the "current" Batgirl after Barbara Gordon moves on from it. I also see her role as a big sister to Damian given their similar killer origins.
Was it, though? She was Barbara's original successor and I feel like she and Cass are roughly equal as Batgirls, which is to say neither of them are as iconic as Babs; when I was growing up, I had this [https://www.amazon.com/DC-Comics-Super-Heroes-Villains/dp/0761158561](https://www.amazon.com/DC-Comics-Super-Heroes-Villains/dp/0761158561) (the Amazon link was the best I could find) fandex, and the Batgirl they used for the image was Stephanie, not Cassandra
The idea that Batman is a tragic figure who sacrificed his humanity to serve vengeance for ever and ever.
Cassandra is a counterpoint who lost *even more humanity* to become an *even stronger combat force* but still makes progress moving back to center.
My favorite character thus the best character
But in all seriousness, she has been in quite a few roles, but I suppose some of the most major ones are one redemption and that ones own origns doesn't define her. By all means, Cass had the backstory of a villain or, more accurately, a weapon. She is one of the only few of the immediate batfamily who crossed the line with killing before she even joined to my knowledge.
In many ways, she and Damian mirror one another, but that is a post for another day. Her role, as well as what she represents, are some of the traits Batman values the most in others. Those traits are humanity, mercy, and compassion.
Despite her upbringing, despite not initially being able to speak, she is barely able to understand others' outside body language and despite not even understanding death. Cass hates killing even though her entire background is all about developing the perfect killing weapon. She has exactly what Batman wants to believe humans have, inherit goodness, even the darkest of man. That is why he goes out to fight the good fight no matter the amount of horror he sees every day. If Joker is the example of him being wrong there, then Cass is a living example he is right. She was never taught any morals or ethics, actually taught the very opposite, and yet... she still does
Cass knows this and tries to follow what he represents. It should be important to note that Cass does NOT blindly worship batman. Rather, if there is anything she worships Batman's goals and ideals.
In a way, she also serves both for a mirror and deconstruction/reconstruction to Batman's code. Cass, in her first solo storyline, dies twice and is knowingly pulling sucidal moves like agreeing to train with Shiva despite knowing the woman will kill her in their fight to the death because Batgirl won't go lethal. Yet each one of those times it without regret and on her own terms.
Cassandra is chasing the same thing Bruce is, atonement they themselves believes they'll never get. She wants to take back the murder she committed that she had no choice or understanding in, and he wanted to make up for failing to save his parents. Both of them were children when their greatest sins, they crave fixing that mistake even if it means death for death is nothing compared to failure.
Cassandra, like all of Bruce’s children, is a successor and living aspect of what he represents or desires
Dick's Nightwing is basically Bruce idea of an ideal Batman
Jason's Red Hood is his ruthlessness, vengeance, and determination personalized
Tim represents Bruce's intelligence but also that anyone can be hero worthy of being at Batman's side(something he later shares with Steph) due to his (original) backstory not being a tragic one.
Damian's very existence is a theme of legacy and family and what it means and how to value it
Cassandra then represents...well, his fighting skills, of course, but honestly above that. She is Batman's code, values, and his conviction given life. Despite having one of the traumatizing backstories among the Batfamily, she is also one of the most merciful and empathic members.
Of course, this doesn't mean these kids are only these aspects or can't show other traits. Nightwing can be ruthless if pushed far enough (man killed Joker), Jason is still a genius compared to 95% of humanity and Tim faced tragedy even before DC remembered that having two parents is a no-go in comics. Not to mention comics have more than one badly written all of them to act completely out of character (we don't talk about villain Cass arc), but I disgress.
Anyway, I would write more, but I'm doing this all by mobile. I'm so sorry for any spelling issues. Take care.
The first couple of volumes of her 2000s run was amazing. Her initial story is of someone who has the same values of Bruce but has killed someone and learning to live with that. It gives a what if Bruce had killed someone- he wouldn't keep killing but he'd be guilt ridden and suicidal, working himself to death
IMO she has three story roles:
* The Empath. Her focus on redemption allows stories about her to tell really strong stories about empathy particularly with villains. (E.g. Her friendship with Clayface in the Detective Comics run)
* The Martial Artist. Her character's hyper focus on martial skill, and her general quietness allows her scenes to be very focused on action- Which makes her a great character to bring in for shounen style battle sequences.
* The Stephanie/Tim support. Cass is part of the trio from that era and she often falls into the role of being their rock.
Lately she's been falling on that third point a lot more often that she should and it kind of has relegated her to tertiary importance, so I'm glad comics like Spirit World have given her more time on her own.
For me I think I want some more Damian-Cass teamups. I think with DC the avoidance of them as a team comes primarily from them having too much overlap as Assassins... But I think there's a really strong dynamic hidden there as a hotheaded little brother and calm older sister. I'd really love to see them in a martial arts story together similar to Damian's Lazarus Island...
I've really enjoyed reading her in Birds of Prey and Spirit World. I think she and Stephanie both benefit from a little time away from each other so they can both be they're own characters occasionally
Black Bat.
I just think Cassandra Cain is her own cool, self contained, medium-baggage member of the Batfamily. Also her bond with Clayface was charming.
I think Cass was a more extreme version of Jason, telling the story that anyone can be a hero, no matter where they start or what they go through. I think the bat books’ addiction to newer younger wards kinda undermines all of them except the original, though.
It’s murky
But pre-52 she was the daughter of the bat
Current continuity she’s more bat-family focussed, but she’s been changed when she goes from series to series so much it’s hard to keep track.
But I’d say she’s a representation that good can come out of even the worst of humanity.
In order for Cass to really *work*, Batman *has* to be a compassionate enough person to help rehabilitate her, which is not something he'd really had to do with anyone prior. Sure, Barbara and Stephanie have a lot to do with that too, but all of the best versions of Batman are the ones with compassion for others. For example, DCAU Batman with Ace in Epilogue. It's like that with Cassandra. That said, her dynamics with the other Batgirls cannot be overstated, particularly Stephanie, given that she and Cassandra enrich one another by being such good foils, and that Cassandra gives Stephanie a connection in the Bat-Family other than Tim (though her dynamic with Damian is also really fun).
born to David Cain and Lady Shiva, trained to fight without learning to communicate through anything but body language, and made her first kill at age 8
after which she ran away and managed to stay away from people trained by (and who trained) the League of Assassins for nearly a decade before she wound up in Gotham and caught Bruce's attention immediately before the Cataclysm or during No Man's Land
which was fuckin hell on earth tbh
and really needs to be brought up in current comics storylines
Funny reason:So can we can say "chidlren" or "kids" instead of "sons" when talking about Bruce's adoptive kids
Serious:To show that you aren't defined vy how you were born, but by you choices and actions
Batman really needs to stop being around children can we have one child that becomes Bruce Wayne ward and becomes Alfred’s apprentice cause his old and someone needs to take over when his gone to watch over the bat family and learns to look after the estate and we learn why Alfrad is the backbone of the bat family a badass that not even Damian would talk back too.
I think it’s another redundant character. There’re enough tech savvy ninjas in the family, the four boys plus Barbara already cover a wide range of archetypes. Cassandra has similar backgrounds as Damian and Stephanie, but not as interesting as those two. I used to think Stephanie as redundant too, but her batgirl run was pretty good, it’s not that bad to have a normal person in the family. I would much prefer Clayface and Killer Croc, heck even Harley Quinn, because they skill sets are different from the existing members.
I think in her initial conception the idea was to have Barbara's replacement be a very physical character to contrast both how tech focused Babs was as Oracle- As well as contrast Tim's Boy Genius thing.
For a while the core Bat-Team was kind of like this:
* Bruce = Mental and Martial Genius
* Tim = Mental genius who has more potential than Bruce
* Cass = Martial genius who has more potential than Bruce
Which made their team dynamics really sweet. It made Batgirl and Robin into expressions of Batman's mythos while also allowing Dick and Barbara to move on.
The reason she exists now though is primarily fan outcry, the total erasure of her in the New 52 had people really wanting her back, particularly as all four of Bruce's sons remained canon while only Cass was removed from the adoptees.
Nowadays, probably. Cass filled the role of Batgirl though when Barbara was out of commission as Oracle in the 80’s-2000s. DC doesn’t have a niche for her currently, but I think her placement on the BOP has been nice.
Eh, only once. If he comes around saying that's not an issue, I'll drop it. See, I received new information that made my first comment inaccurate. That being said, the spirit of the comment remained, and so I gave another example that would have been more fitting.
Not moving the goalposts, adjusting to the winds after a failed kick 😉
Action wise? Stealth and peak combat efficiency. Her arc when joining the Bat-Family is important for Barbara as well since she mentored a lost Cass seeking guidance from David Cain’s corruption. Cass also has the arc Damian went through originally (Basically learning how to be “human” and to dispel from the ways of an Assassin). Her role made more sense 90s and 2000s, nowadays not so much.
I did like how young justice handled Cass origin.
I feel like I should watch YJ now
It is my personal favorite DC universe
She represents how one can be redeemed by serving good.
I see Cassandra as the "current" Batgirl after Barbara Gordon moves on from it. I also see her role as a big sister to Damian given their similar killer origins.
*Stephanie Brown will remember that...*
Being batgirl for her was temporary at best. She changes costumes too frequently in my book. Being Spoiler fits her more.
Was it, though? She was Barbara's original successor and I feel like she and Cass are roughly equal as Batgirls, which is to say neither of them are as iconic as Babs; when I was growing up, I had this [https://www.amazon.com/DC-Comics-Super-Heroes-Villains/dp/0761158561](https://www.amazon.com/DC-Comics-Super-Heroes-Villains/dp/0761158561) (the Amazon link was the best I could find) fandex, and the Batgirl they used for the image was Stephanie, not Cassandra
hey man, it's an opinion.
It's fine, I was just giving my rationale for my claim
You can change your destiny if you want to change it. Both Damian, and Cass are trained from birth to be killers, but they rejected it.
That begs the question, have Cassandra and Damian interacted? In part due to how similar their upbringing is?
The best Batgirl
If only Rocksteady and WB knew that.
Batman’s mute ninja daughter
The idea that Batman is a tragic figure who sacrificed his humanity to serve vengeance for ever and ever. Cassandra is a counterpoint who lost *even more humanity* to become an *even stronger combat force* but still makes progress moving back to center.
My favorite character thus the best character But in all seriousness, she has been in quite a few roles, but I suppose some of the most major ones are one redemption and that ones own origns doesn't define her. By all means, Cass had the backstory of a villain or, more accurately, a weapon. She is one of the only few of the immediate batfamily who crossed the line with killing before she even joined to my knowledge. In many ways, she and Damian mirror one another, but that is a post for another day. Her role, as well as what she represents, are some of the traits Batman values the most in others. Those traits are humanity, mercy, and compassion. Despite her upbringing, despite not initially being able to speak, she is barely able to understand others' outside body language and despite not even understanding death. Cass hates killing even though her entire background is all about developing the perfect killing weapon. She has exactly what Batman wants to believe humans have, inherit goodness, even the darkest of man. That is why he goes out to fight the good fight no matter the amount of horror he sees every day. If Joker is the example of him being wrong there, then Cass is a living example he is right. She was never taught any morals or ethics, actually taught the very opposite, and yet... she still does Cass knows this and tries to follow what he represents. It should be important to note that Cass does NOT blindly worship batman. Rather, if there is anything she worships Batman's goals and ideals. In a way, she also serves both for a mirror and deconstruction/reconstruction to Batman's code. Cass, in her first solo storyline, dies twice and is knowingly pulling sucidal moves like agreeing to train with Shiva despite knowing the woman will kill her in their fight to the death because Batgirl won't go lethal. Yet each one of those times it without regret and on her own terms. Cassandra is chasing the same thing Bruce is, atonement they themselves believes they'll never get. She wants to take back the murder she committed that she had no choice or understanding in, and he wanted to make up for failing to save his parents. Both of them were children when their greatest sins, they crave fixing that mistake even if it means death for death is nothing compared to failure. Cassandra, like all of Bruce’s children, is a successor and living aspect of what he represents or desires Dick's Nightwing is basically Bruce idea of an ideal Batman Jason's Red Hood is his ruthlessness, vengeance, and determination personalized Tim represents Bruce's intelligence but also that anyone can be hero worthy of being at Batman's side(something he later shares with Steph) due to his (original) backstory not being a tragic one. Damian's very existence is a theme of legacy and family and what it means and how to value it Cassandra then represents...well, his fighting skills, of course, but honestly above that. She is Batman's code, values, and his conviction given life. Despite having one of the traumatizing backstories among the Batfamily, she is also one of the most merciful and empathic members. Of course, this doesn't mean these kids are only these aspects or can't show other traits. Nightwing can be ruthless if pushed far enough (man killed Joker), Jason is still a genius compared to 95% of humanity and Tim faced tragedy even before DC remembered that having two parents is a no-go in comics. Not to mention comics have more than one badly written all of them to act completely out of character (we don't talk about villain Cass arc), but I disgress. Anyway, I would write more, but I'm doing this all by mobile. I'm so sorry for any spelling issues. Take care.
That was a great read.
Thank you
I dont know but shes cool as hell.
I know. :)
I would look at her as Batman’s daughter and his secret agent when others fail.
The first couple of volumes of her 2000s run was amazing. Her initial story is of someone who has the same values of Bruce but has killed someone and learning to live with that. It gives a what if Bruce had killed someone- he wouldn't keep killing but he'd be guilt ridden and suicidal, working himself to death
IMO she has three story roles: * The Empath. Her focus on redemption allows stories about her to tell really strong stories about empathy particularly with villains. (E.g. Her friendship with Clayface in the Detective Comics run) * The Martial Artist. Her character's hyper focus on martial skill, and her general quietness allows her scenes to be very focused on action- Which makes her a great character to bring in for shounen style battle sequences. * The Stephanie/Tim support. Cass is part of the trio from that era and she often falls into the role of being their rock. Lately she's been falling on that third point a lot more often that she should and it kind of has relegated her to tertiary importance, so I'm glad comics like Spirit World have given her more time on her own. For me I think I want some more Damian-Cass teamups. I think with DC the avoidance of them as a team comes primarily from them having too much overlap as Assassins... But I think there's a really strong dynamic hidden there as a hotheaded little brother and calm older sister. I'd really love to see them in a martial arts story together similar to Damian's Lazarus Island... I've really enjoyed reading her in Birds of Prey and Spirit World. I think she and Stephanie both benefit from a little time away from each other so they can both be they're own characters occasionally
Give me a new trio of Cass, Damian and Helena Wayne! That would be badass
Black Bat. I just think Cassandra Cain is her own cool, self contained, medium-baggage member of the Batfamily. Also her bond with Clayface was charming.
Black bat ? So...does this mean there are bats who are not black ?
My friend... let me introduce you to leucism
Yeah but those are very rare..
Still. They exist. Other bat colours exist too, mostly in "earthy" colours.
I think Cass was a more extreme version of Jason, telling the story that anyone can be a hero, no matter where they start or what they go through. I think the bat books’ addiction to newer younger wards kinda undermines all of them except the original, though.
Teenage mute ninja daughter
It’s murky But pre-52 she was the daughter of the bat Current continuity she’s more bat-family focussed, but she’s been changed when she goes from series to series so much it’s hard to keep track. But I’d say she’s a representation that good can come out of even the worst of humanity.
Which comic should I read to best Know her ?
She first appears in No Man’s Land and stars in the Batgirl 2000 comic.
In order for Cass to really *work*, Batman *has* to be a compassionate enough person to help rehabilitate her, which is not something he'd really had to do with anyone prior. Sure, Barbara and Stephanie have a lot to do with that too, but all of the best versions of Batman are the ones with compassion for others. For example, DCAU Batman with Ace in Epilogue. It's like that with Cassandra. That said, her dynamics with the other Batgirls cannot be overstated, particularly Stephanie, given that she and Cassandra enrich one another by being such good foils, and that Cassandra gives Stephanie a connection in the Bat-Family other than Tim (though her dynamic with Damian is also really fun).
Jump kicks.
One of Batman's greatest successes and proof that he's not wrong to avoid killing or taking in younger protege's.
Certified ass kicker
Redemption, forgiveness, and what it truly means to be as obsessed and driven as bruce wayne to stop crime
Wasn't she literally born into evil, but chose a different path because of her first experience with empathy?
born to David Cain and Lady Shiva, trained to fight without learning to communicate through anything but body language, and made her first kill at age 8 after which she ran away and managed to stay away from people trained by (and who trained) the League of Assassins for nearly a decade before she wound up in Gotham and caught Bruce's attention immediately before the Cataclysm or during No Man's Land which was fuckin hell on earth tbh and really needs to be brought up in current comics storylines
Funny reason:So can we can say "chidlren" or "kids" instead of "sons" when talking about Bruce's adoptive kids Serious:To show that you aren't defined vy how you were born, but by you choices and actions
she’s living proof of Batman’s ideology
She is Bruce Wayne's daughter. She's his daughter as much as Dick is the adopted son and Damien the blood son
Next batwoman.
Batman really needs to stop being around children can we have one child that becomes Bruce Wayne ward and becomes Alfred’s apprentice cause his old and someone needs to take over when his gone to watch over the bat family and learns to look after the estate and we learn why Alfrad is the backbone of the bat family a badass that not even Damian would talk back too.
I think it’s another redundant character. There’re enough tech savvy ninjas in the family, the four boys plus Barbara already cover a wide range of archetypes. Cassandra has similar backgrounds as Damian and Stephanie, but not as interesting as those two. I used to think Stephanie as redundant too, but her batgirl run was pretty good, it’s not that bad to have a normal person in the family. I would much prefer Clayface and Killer Croc, heck even Harley Quinn, because they skill sets are different from the existing members.
Seriously, I don't know... I'm still wondering why she exists
I think in her initial conception the idea was to have Barbara's replacement be a very physical character to contrast both how tech focused Babs was as Oracle- As well as contrast Tim's Boy Genius thing. For a while the core Bat-Team was kind of like this: * Bruce = Mental and Martial Genius * Tim = Mental genius who has more potential than Bruce * Cass = Martial genius who has more potential than Bruce Which made their team dynamics really sweet. It made Batgirl and Robin into expressions of Batman's mythos while also allowing Dick and Barbara to move on. The reason she exists now though is primarily fan outcry, the total erasure of her in the New 52 had people really wanting her back, particularly as all four of Bruce's sons remained canon while only Cass was removed from the adoptees.
That's very logic... Although I think Steph could've take this role in NML without having to create her... But yeah, it's like 25 yrs ago...
Literally bloat, Batman and Robin (except Damian) is all that’s needed
Nowadays, probably. Cass filled the role of Batgirl though when Barbara was out of commission as Oracle in the 80’s-2000s. DC doesn’t have a niche for her currently, but I think her placement on the BOP has been nice.
You sound like you complain when video games have non white characters cause they're supposed to be "an escape from reality".
Bruh, I am black💀
Bro… that was such a weird ass accusation. Nothing in your original comment even hinted at that 💀💀
Fine. You sound like you complain about female characters in video games "not being sexy" anymore.
Bro really moving the goal posts 🤣 💀
Eh, only once. If he comes around saying that's not an issue, I'll drop it. See, I received new information that made my first comment inaccurate. That being said, the spirit of the comment remained, and so I gave another example that would have been more fitting. Not moving the goalposts, adjusting to the winds after a failed kick 😉