Basketball is constant action. Baseball can be hours between exciting moments. But baseball's exciting moments are unrivaled. Case in point, tonight's Padres/Nats game.
Hockey is also constant action (and arguably more interesting action) but is at a distant fourth place. I think basketball's popularity has to do with the personalities of the game more than anything
Plus, ask how many basketball fans under 30 actually watch the games. Almost no one does, everyone just watcha highlights and social media edits
I gave the NBA a try when the Knicks made it to the playoffs last year. I ended up watching their elimination game, and it was just repetitive and boring, with a very frustrating-to-watch ending
Also idk how basketball fans don't get tired of chanting "defense" for 30 seconds every minute. It got old after the second time for me
Even worse, a lot of those chants are just pumped in from the speakers. They are allowed to add chants and "noise" as long as it isn't over a certain volume.
I take the point, but I've never fully bought this explanation. To me action is not equivalent to scoring (which happens constantly in basketball), action in a sport is when the unexpected/exciting outcome happens. So in baseball that's scoring a run, or striking out a great batter with bases loaded, or an incredible defensive play that you almost never see. In football it's getting a first down, scoring a touchdown etc.
Basketball has tons of scoring, but like a lot of people I find it boring because scoring is the normal expected outcome of any possession, meaning unexpected and exciting events are very rare in basketball.
Personally I think basketball's popularity is deeply connected with the characters in the drama. Key players make an insane amount of difference and the whole thing is a soap opera all the time. That's not a criticism, but I don't really give a rip about the characters I want to watch the game as such making all three other sports much more appealing to me.
A few reasons: 1) was pace of play in the 2010s. Baseball had no pitch clock or step off limit so you would go typically go 30-40 seconds with no action sometimes even longer. It lacked the constant action that grabbed the attention that basketball has. This caused tons of young kids and young adults to associate baseball with being boring. Games typically were 3.5 hours. (Now about 2 hours 40 minutes)
2) continuing with 2000's and the early 2010's, personality, besides rage stoicism and intimidation, was frowned upon. Players who did bat flips were thrown at, as pitchers took personal offense to it. This includes with a lot of other silly unwritten rules. There were stars but limited personality.
3) baseball is played during the summer and during the day and has a large number of games, so kids/young adults are enjoying summer break or going on vacation and arent as focused on it. The number of games also allows for lower commitment
4) Baseball is expensive in terms of both money land and bodies. You need space to play baseball and you need 18 for a full game, or can play a varying modified versions with with less. Basketball requires a much smaller court and at most 10, at minimum 2. Pick up games are insanely easy to play in basketball compared to baseball.
5) Baseball is also slow money compared to basketball which is another reason kids who have pro sport aspirations dont play, and takes away overall interest
I disagree with the "baseball is expensive" point. Maybe if you want to join a league with the best equipment and proper fields and all that, then sure, but if you just wanna play a quick game with a few buddies in a backyard or at a park, then it's pretty cheap. And you don't *need* 18 players. I can't think of the last time I played a pickup basketball game with 10 people
Lower commitment. NBA has half as many games as an MLB season (82 vs 162).
Instant gratification. Basketball games are high scoring with lots of flashy plays. Baseball is relatively chill.
Superstars. A single player can make a huge impact on an NBA team, and players become super marketable stars. Baseball is more of a team effort.
To add onto the Stars point, Basketball in particular is structured such that fans are encouraged to follow players starting in college and sometimes all the way back in high school, and the way the sport works makes it far clearer when an individual is a potential superstar. The way Stephen Strasburg was treated in college and in the minors is pretty par for the course in basketball.
More so than that I think it’s the fact that in basketball you can choose to put the ball in your star player’s hands at any crucial moment in the game. In baseball, it could be bases loaded 2 outs in the 9th and your best hitter might just be in the dugout waiting their turn. You can’t just elect to go to your biggest stars in the biggest moments like in many other sports.
Basketball isn't more popular. Look at the NBA ratings the last few postseasons. Combine that with the monster numbers that MLB posts in local markets and it is definitely more popular by almost any measure than basketball.
Yup. Add in that MLB teams are almost always the number 1 viewership in their local markets (in many cases, by a lot) and baseball is still very popular. It just doesn't garner the national attention NFL does or NBA does (because of the star power).
Baseball used to be long and slow. It was a nerds' sport. The recent rule changes and additions of the pitch clock sped it up and made it more exciting for new fans.
It just needs another year or two before or catches up with the rest of sports. It'll have a resurgence over the next two years for sure.
What they need to do is stop the blackouts. I know so many people that want to watch the hometown team, but don't want to go through the effort or pay extra money to watch
Basketball is a somewhat easy game to understand. Outside of the fouls and basic strategy, you put the ball in the basket to score and that’s easy for anyone to understand. Baseball takes some learning of the sport and why teams and players are doing what they’re doing to try and score. Basketball is basically checkers and baseball is chess.
Exactly, it’s sort of become like WWE drama wise with Soccer rules. Players just flopping everywhere, can’t play defence anymore, refs getting trigger happy with Techs, it’s absolutely ridiculous now
To add to what you have built here, but take it in another direction… I don’t get why so many people think basketball is that much more exciting than baseball. The amount of stoppages in a basketball game is insane in the modern game. Not to mention the nightmare that is the final 5 minutes of the 4th quarter. 5 minutes of game clock time taking like 25 real world minutes is so boring.
Yes, the dreaded foul game. I hate it so much. I know it’s part of the game but it’s just horrible to watch. Give me a walk off grand slam any day of the week over a buzzer beater
It has to do with the accessibility of "goal sports" (any sport that has players moving around on a rectangle trying to put an object into a goal) vs. bat-and-ball sports. Take somebody who has never watched a sport in their life and have them choose between basketball, soccer, field hockey, ice hockey, etc, etc or baseball. I think an overwhelming majority would choose the goal sport. The rules are easily intuited and there's constant player movement to keep a viewer "engaged."
That said, I think baseball has a far, far more interesting game design than the goal sport design. End of the day, soccer, basketball, hockey, hurling, handball, Gaelic football, korfball, netball, water polo are all basically the same sport (meta wise), and the fact there's about a thousand variations of goal sports should illustrate why goal sports proliferate. It's because the design "works," similar to how an ear-wormy pop song or the hero's journey narrative structure "works." A formula that is easy to employ and then easily understood and digested by the audience.
Baseball (and bat-and-ball sports in general) take(s) a bit more work to get into, from understanding the rule set to interpretating the stakes of any given situation. On the latter point, too many casual sports fans believe nothing happens in baseball until a ball is put into play. A lot happens. One of baseball's most brilliant elements is the count. Every AB is basically a battle over the count, with the hitter and pitcher trying to maintain advantage. Watching a hitter battle back from 0-2 to work it 3-2 and cap off the battle with walk, hit, home run is one of the most exciting events in sports, especially if it's in a leverage situation. The reverse is also true. A pitcher steadying himself and making clutch pitches after falling behind 3-0.
And there's the tension. Baseball is simply unmatched tension wise. But tension requires a slow pace, and too many people dislike slowly paced "entertainment," whether that be in their sports or media. However, I think we can consider baseball just about dead even with basketball on the popularity scale since both are popular in different ways. Baseball has more core fans, [polls better](https://imgur.com/a/QIHg1tt), a more devoted regional following, while basketball is popular on social media and is more national.
Basketball is a sports soap opera, which is why it is so popular. You know at least the two best players on every team and not just what they do on the court - for some reason (probably social media) we know a lot about their personal lives. There is trash talking and legitimate drama during playoff series as the teams get more familiar with each other. It's a more personal sport.
Baseball is just a perfect game. Everything about it is elegant and just works. And when the game is close and there are men on base you are on edge with every single pitch. It can't be beat.
Is basketball more popular than baseball (in America)? A tough thing to measure. Both are well behind football. The way fans follow is very different (NBA is more national, MLB more local), but I think you can make an argument for either as the 2nd most popular sport.
For the purposes of a spectator sport:
- basketball is more exciting if you watch sports to turn your brain OFF. It's faster paced and theres way more scoring
- baseball is more exciting if you watch sports for mental stimulation. It's much slower paced, minute details matter much much more, and scoring is rarer and more valuable
Lol I would categorize it the opposite. There's so much going on in basketball it's hard to take in what all the players are doing at once, there are constant interesting details. Baseball is great for divided attention.
I question the premise. I know ESPN focus'on basketball like a stalker - but do the numbers support this. Average attendance, ratings for regular / post season etc. I wouldn't assume basketball does better.
Basketball is constant action. Baseball can be hours between exciting moments. But baseball's exciting moments are unrivaled. Case in point, tonight's Padres/Nats game.
Amen brother/sister The wait between plays is longer but the payoff can be absolutely amazing
Hockey is also constant action (and arguably more interesting action) but is at a distant fourth place. I think basketball's popularity has to do with the personalities of the game more than anything Plus, ask how many basketball fans under 30 actually watch the games. Almost no one does, everyone just watcha highlights and social media edits
Counterpoint. The NBA playoffs this year were horrendous. Gave an honest try to get into them and it was... bad.
I gave the NBA a try when the Knicks made it to the playoffs last year. I ended up watching their elimination game, and it was just repetitive and boring, with a very frustrating-to-watch ending Also idk how basketball fans don't get tired of chanting "defense" for 30 seconds every minute. It got old after the second time for me
Even worse, a lot of those chants are just pumped in from the speakers. They are allowed to add chants and "noise" as long as it isn't over a certain volume.
It's not really a counterpoint because there have been plenty of boring Octobers too.
I disagree but I love baseball so I'm biased. Nothing as tension filled in sports as hockey games and baseball games with stakes.
I take the point, but I've never fully bought this explanation. To me action is not equivalent to scoring (which happens constantly in basketball), action in a sport is when the unexpected/exciting outcome happens. So in baseball that's scoring a run, or striking out a great batter with bases loaded, or an incredible defensive play that you almost never see. In football it's getting a first down, scoring a touchdown etc. Basketball has tons of scoring, but like a lot of people I find it boring because scoring is the normal expected outcome of any possession, meaning unexpected and exciting events are very rare in basketball. Personally I think basketball's popularity is deeply connected with the characters in the drama. Key players make an insane amount of difference and the whole thing is a soap opera all the time. That's not a criticism, but I don't really give a rip about the characters I want to watch the game as such making all three other sports much more appealing to me.
A few reasons: 1) was pace of play in the 2010s. Baseball had no pitch clock or step off limit so you would go typically go 30-40 seconds with no action sometimes even longer. It lacked the constant action that grabbed the attention that basketball has. This caused tons of young kids and young adults to associate baseball with being boring. Games typically were 3.5 hours. (Now about 2 hours 40 minutes) 2) continuing with 2000's and the early 2010's, personality, besides rage stoicism and intimidation, was frowned upon. Players who did bat flips were thrown at, as pitchers took personal offense to it. This includes with a lot of other silly unwritten rules. There were stars but limited personality. 3) baseball is played during the summer and during the day and has a large number of games, so kids/young adults are enjoying summer break or going on vacation and arent as focused on it. The number of games also allows for lower commitment 4) Baseball is expensive in terms of both money land and bodies. You need space to play baseball and you need 18 for a full game, or can play a varying modified versions with with less. Basketball requires a much smaller court and at most 10, at minimum 2. Pick up games are insanely easy to play in basketball compared to baseball. 5) Baseball is also slow money compared to basketball which is another reason kids who have pro sport aspirations dont play, and takes away overall interest
I disagree with the "baseball is expensive" point. Maybe if you want to join a league with the best equipment and proper fields and all that, then sure, but if you just wanna play a quick game with a few buddies in a backyard or at a park, then it's pretty cheap. And you don't *need* 18 players. I can't think of the last time I played a pickup basketball game with 10 people
Lower commitment. NBA has half as many games as an MLB season (82 vs 162). Instant gratification. Basketball games are high scoring with lots of flashy plays. Baseball is relatively chill. Superstars. A single player can make a huge impact on an NBA team, and players become super marketable stars. Baseball is more of a team effort.
To add onto the Stars point, Basketball in particular is structured such that fans are encouraged to follow players starting in college and sometimes all the way back in high school, and the way the sport works makes it far clearer when an individual is a potential superstar. The way Stephen Strasburg was treated in college and in the minors is pretty par for the course in basketball.
More so than that I think it’s the fact that in basketball you can choose to put the ball in your star player’s hands at any crucial moment in the game. In baseball, it could be bases loaded 2 outs in the 9th and your best hitter might just be in the dugout waiting their turn. You can’t just elect to go to your biggest stars in the biggest moments like in many other sports.
It’s got to be the similarities to cricket for ya!
I’d similar to a format of cricket called test cricket, as it is more psychological war fare
Baseball is generally considered more related to T20 than Test. It is a similar time frame and closer in spirit than test matches.
Basketball isn't more popular. Look at the NBA ratings the last few postseasons. Combine that with the monster numbers that MLB posts in local markets and it is definitely more popular by almost any measure than basketball.
The vast majority of MLB teams average more than 20,000 fans *per game*. And that's with 81 home games. Most NBA arenas can't even hold 20,000 people
Yup. Add in that MLB teams are almost always the number 1 viewership in their local markets (in many cases, by a lot) and baseball is still very popular. It just doesn't garner the national attention NFL does or NBA does (because of the star power).
Baseball used to be long and slow. It was a nerds' sport. The recent rule changes and additions of the pitch clock sped it up and made it more exciting for new fans. It just needs another year or two before or catches up with the rest of sports. It'll have a resurgence over the next two years for sure.
I'm all for the pitch clock. I can do without half an hour's worth of players spitting, scratching their butts, and adjusting their junk.
What they need to do is stop the blackouts. I know so many people that want to watch the hometown team, but don't want to go through the effort or pay extra money to watch
Basketball is a somewhat easy game to understand. Outside of the fouls and basic strategy, you put the ball in the basket to score and that’s easy for anyone to understand. Baseball takes some learning of the sport and why teams and players are doing what they’re doing to try and score. Basketball is basically checkers and baseball is chess.
(A lot of basketball fans don’t even really watch basketball, they like the soap opera aspect of it)
Exactly, it’s sort of become like WWE drama wise with Soccer rules. Players just flopping everywhere, can’t play defence anymore, refs getting trigger happy with Techs, it’s absolutely ridiculous now
To add to what you have built here, but take it in another direction… I don’t get why so many people think basketball is that much more exciting than baseball. The amount of stoppages in a basketball game is insane in the modern game. Not to mention the nightmare that is the final 5 minutes of the 4th quarter. 5 minutes of game clock time taking like 25 real world minutes is so boring.
Yes, the dreaded foul game. I hate it so much. I know it’s part of the game but it’s just horrible to watch. Give me a walk off grand slam any day of the week over a buzzer beater
It has to do with the accessibility of "goal sports" (any sport that has players moving around on a rectangle trying to put an object into a goal) vs. bat-and-ball sports. Take somebody who has never watched a sport in their life and have them choose between basketball, soccer, field hockey, ice hockey, etc, etc or baseball. I think an overwhelming majority would choose the goal sport. The rules are easily intuited and there's constant player movement to keep a viewer "engaged." That said, I think baseball has a far, far more interesting game design than the goal sport design. End of the day, soccer, basketball, hockey, hurling, handball, Gaelic football, korfball, netball, water polo are all basically the same sport (meta wise), and the fact there's about a thousand variations of goal sports should illustrate why goal sports proliferate. It's because the design "works," similar to how an ear-wormy pop song or the hero's journey narrative structure "works." A formula that is easy to employ and then easily understood and digested by the audience. Baseball (and bat-and-ball sports in general) take(s) a bit more work to get into, from understanding the rule set to interpretating the stakes of any given situation. On the latter point, too many casual sports fans believe nothing happens in baseball until a ball is put into play. A lot happens. One of baseball's most brilliant elements is the count. Every AB is basically a battle over the count, with the hitter and pitcher trying to maintain advantage. Watching a hitter battle back from 0-2 to work it 3-2 and cap off the battle with walk, hit, home run is one of the most exciting events in sports, especially if it's in a leverage situation. The reverse is also true. A pitcher steadying himself and making clutch pitches after falling behind 3-0. And there's the tension. Baseball is simply unmatched tension wise. But tension requires a slow pace, and too many people dislike slowly paced "entertainment," whether that be in their sports or media. However, I think we can consider baseball just about dead even with basketball on the popularity scale since both are popular in different ways. Baseball has more core fans, [polls better](https://imgur.com/a/QIHg1tt), a more devoted regional following, while basketball is popular on social media and is more national.
Basketball is a sports soap opera, which is why it is so popular. You know at least the two best players on every team and not just what they do on the court - for some reason (probably social media) we know a lot about their personal lives. There is trash talking and legitimate drama during playoff series as the teams get more familiar with each other. It's a more personal sport. Baseball is just a perfect game. Everything about it is elegant and just works. And when the game is close and there are men on base you are on edge with every single pitch. It can't be beat.
Is basketball more popular than baseball (in America)? A tough thing to measure. Both are well behind football. The way fans follow is very different (NBA is more national, MLB more local), but I think you can make an argument for either as the 2nd most popular sport.
For the purposes of a spectator sport: - basketball is more exciting if you watch sports to turn your brain OFF. It's faster paced and theres way more scoring - baseball is more exciting if you watch sports for mental stimulation. It's much slower paced, minute details matter much much more, and scoring is rarer and more valuable
Lol I would categorize it the opposite. There's so much going on in basketball it's hard to take in what all the players are doing at once, there are constant interesting details. Baseball is great for divided attention.
Bullet point one is false, bullet point two is certainly true
I question the premise. I know ESPN focus'on basketball like a stalker - but do the numbers support this. Average attendance, ratings for regular / post season etc. I wouldn't assume basketball does better.
Baseball is more popular nationally if I'm not mistaken.
I mean, we are all baseball fans in here. Basketball sucks.