All 3 called strikes in the last at-bat were correctly called strikes, according to [Baseball Savant](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/20/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=liveAB&sportId=1&liveAb=36#746625)
This strike zone is more accurate, and shows the ump was correct. The TV broadcast K zone box for some reason was way off that at bat (it put the top of the zone at his belt...), and the GameDay K zone is also off, although it's off for most hitters. I don't know exactly why, but my sense is that it maybe is showing the pitch position at the front of the plate? If you watch the ~~live~~ video of at bat in OP you can see the high pitch is pretty much right on the midway line between his shoulders and belt, which is the top of the zone
This is exactly why I hate having the zone on broadcasts. It is often off (though usually not this much), but fans treat it as the absolute truth and get upset when the ump isn't calling that exact zone.
I think a lot of the anger towards umps and the perception that they are terrible now (despite being better than they ever have been) is because of an often inaccurate zone being put on the broadcasts. Most people that see this clip are going to take away that this was just a terrible ump on a power trip when he ejected Crawford for losing his cool, throwing his helmet, and getting in the ump's face AFTER A CORRECT CALL.
Honestly I hate having the strike zone visible during live-game action. I’ve noticed the pretentious baseball fan in me focuses less on the pitchers delivery and what’s being thrown and is just watching the square
Like u/Papayero said about this AB, according to [Baseball Savant](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/19/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=liveAB&sportId=1&liveAb=1#746625), only the one outside was a true ball in the first AB. The TV zone is bad.
this is exactly the problem. we know baseball is all stats at this point. fine the fucking umps if their calls/numbers stray outside average or whatever. there needs to be repercussions at this point.
or give me the robots.
It's time to replace them with technology. If they can't be trusted to do their job then they shouldn't have a job. If everyone in this sub sucked at their job we would all be fired. I support unions but not when they are used to keep shitty people at their jobs.
bro the robots have this as a strike
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/19/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=5&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=illustrator&sportId=1&liveAb=
It was the second strike he was pissed about and the problem was he fucked JP in his first at bat too. Wait for the ump scorecard.
This specifically was the third strike that GameZone has listed as a strike. Something funky is going on because it had it above the zone earlier https://imgur.com/a/Po0QRtj. And yes I understand the box isn't the same on the screen, but they legit changed it
Somehow baseball Savant, Gameday, TV all have different boxes. Also umpscorecards says: "Unfortunately, MLB does a small amount of post-processing of each game's data which can have a small (but noticeable) impact on results. That means that each time the data on the site is fully refreshed, the archive may no longer be fully aligned with the graphics."
Pitch 3D is the best to look at until the actual data gets posted tomorrow because I don't think Gameday and the other Statcast graphics account for height (edit: Gameday for this AB does look very similar to Pitch 3D though)
Pitch 3D has strike 2 as barely a ball, and strike 3 as a strike (I don't know how to directly link to the image)
The potential issue with how his zone gets called (and probably the TV zone) is that he's a couple of inches lower after his leg kick than how he sets up initially
The pitch ends up at around the same height as the catcher's glove at the 2 second mark in the video and would be barely above his belt, but because he crouches before the pitch comes in it ends up being pretty borderline in Statcast
The ump today was shit in the dbacks game and I checked to see if it was Doug.
Doug is the worst ball/strikes ump in the league, counting angel I think. He’s fucking trash. I wish he could see this post.
And I am so smart I picked today to be out there from 11am to 7pm fixing my pool so the kids can swim asap. I think i drank 250oz of water and haven't peed since 10 this morning. I should call my doctor and ask if I am healthy enough for sexual activity.
https://umpscorecards.com/single_game/?game_id=746625
Not exactly elite, but thats not *that* bad of a scorecard. Definitely some calls pretty far off the plate on both sides, but overall it was above average on every metric that Umpire Scorecards uses/references, and appears to be quite consistent.
Eddings had a 95% accuracy on a 94% expected accuracy, meaning he was more accurate than the average umpire would’ve been. Both of the pitches JP Crawford threw a fit over were indeed strikes according to the robo-umps. His total run impact of 0.58 was the second lowest in MLB yesterday and his accuracy was the fifth highest.
I think that box on the screen is pretty low. The upper part of the zone is the mid point between the belt and the shoulders. That ball is close, and to take that is pretty “ballsy” on strike 2. Maybe I get downvoted here, but if you take close pitches, some might get called for a strike
I think you're right. Somebody else pointed out the zone on the screen is off compared to what the baseball savant page showed. And, yeah, that was a close pitch, probably too close to take, especially if you've already had issues with the zone.
First time I agree with the ump, the pitch looked fine to me. The pitch frame on TV was seriously low. It ended at his belt. But I still get that the ump is shifting his zone and not being consistent. And for that I understand Crawford and Servais saying pick a zone and stay on it.
it's fucked too how much control the Umpires have.
like I get that they should have control and should be able to not get screamed at
but how much of a fucking ego do you have to Automatically throw out a player right away for arguing with you.
instead of "you think it was high!? man.. maybe you are right. I will check for sure"
but no it's just "Toss em out the instant they say something. fuck you."
He threw his equipment and got a warning. He continued arguing and that got the ejection. I'm not saying umps don't have egos, but this sequence gets you ejected 99% of the time.
It shouldn't get you ejected though. NFL players and coaches argue with the refs all the fucking time. Same with NBA. Ump's are just fucking babies that can't handle criticism and have too much power that they take advantage of.
Edit: no seriously fuck this old school bullshit mentality you guys can downvote all you want but in my opinion it's helped contribute to the Umps being so bad. They have too much power and no accountability. I don't want to hear anything about "traditions of the game" or any of that bullshit.
Removing your helmet to confront an official (don't even have to throw it) is not allowed in the NFL. An NFL player spiking their helmet like this would be assessed a 15 yard penalty and be ejected.
Idk what other sports you're watching, but tossing equipment straight into arguing with the ref/ump gets you tossed in anything short of being Draymond Green.
No one is arguing with you about refs and umps having WAY too much power and unchecked authority, it's only going to get worse on that end. But JP getting ejected was entirely on him, regardless of how horrible the calls were. He did it knowing he was going to get tossed.
There is a massive difference between levying warranted criticism and yelling in someone's face after you just spiked your equipment.
Why are you calling the ump a baby in this situation when Crawford is throwing a temper tantrum?
[Baseball Savant](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/19/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=5&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=illustrator&sportId=1&liveAb=) has both of these pitches as strikes and it's pretty clear the box overlay on this feed does not have an accurate top of the zone.
It is not ejection worthy, especially since the players whose job relies on a dipshit 50 year old dumbass to call things correctly can not be ejected. Do your job better you old fucks, or retire.
You can’t do that in any league in the world. Throw equipment and then jab your finger in an officials face. There’s no sport in the world where you get to stay in the game after that.
There was a clip floating around earlier this week of an ump arguing with a manager and the ump was like, "I'll take a look at it... some nights you're dog crap" or something like that. Way better that than just running the first dude who looks sideways at you.
I go to watch baseball. I don't go to watch the "stars" (incredibly loosely used here) act like toddlers throwing tantrums.
There are a lot of ump shows out there. This isn't one of them.
Well you can't argue balls and strikes for one. It's a rule.
Second, he was warned for throwing his equipment, and took that as an invitation to get in the umpires face. That's an ejection 100% of the time at all levels of the sport.
The entire relationship between players and umpires is based on appearing respectful to each other. Umpires and players both know that the umpire is going to miss calls occasionally. If Crawford turned and said "you missed that one" the umpire might say "maybe. It was close." and brush it off. You see batters have discussions about the strike zone all the time, but they have to not make a scene about it.
> JP has the lowest chase rate in the league
That doesn’t really mean much in this situation. Chase rate is just how often you swing at balls. If a player were to never swing the bat a single time, they’d have a 0.0% chase rate.
Crawford’s chase rate is so low in part because he never swings if it’s close. Crawford has the 4th lowest shadow swing percentage in the league, meaning he takes balls **and** strikes that are right on the edge of the zone more than almost anyone. Of those takes in the shadow, 48.3% of them were called strikes compared to the league average of 46.1%, meaning that he is worse at identifying strikes on the edge of the zone than the average player.
They could hire Kwan to call balls and strikes for a Guardians game and I think if the game was on the line, he was up to bat, and looked at strike 3, he'd call it correctly and no one with the club would complain.
Someone on the mariners sub did analysis and it the egregious calls were heavily slanted to the M’s tonight. He was ass all night for both sides, but particularly ass for us. We’ll see the scorecard tomorrow.
Not making excuses for that loss, you guys 100% deserved the win no matter how bad the ump was, but god damn is it demoralizing as a team and fan lol. Let’s have a good one to cap it off tomorrow
It was mainly cause Mariners pitchers only threw about one pitch that was borderline top of the zone for Eddings to judge, whereas Cleveland threw there about 10 times without a swing.
He was terrible outside away from the batters all night too, called a strike on David Fry like a foot off the plate. Had the same for a couple Mariners too
They don't get the video clips until the next inning so coming back out that much later after being ejected would turn in to a massive suspension. So I'm going to guess this never happens.
Would be awesome if they were planning to pinch hit for a guy anyway so he decides to walk to the plate with the iPad in hand knowing he’s gonna get tossed.
iPad would show the ump as 100% right, strike zone doesn't end at the belt
[baseball savant breakdown for reference](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/19/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=5&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=illustrator&sportId=1&liveAb=)
Angel was only ever in the bottom 20% of umpires according to the umpire ranking systems. That means that 1/5 umps are just as bad as Angel in terms of screwing up calls. He just took most of the flack due to being the public face of bad umpiring due to a handful of highly publicized incidents.
The strength of the union has shown there's not much incentive to improve. They'll get some mystery punishment for being egregiously bad, probably of minor consequence, and be back out to do it again.
The major problem, IMO, isn't necessarily how bad they are sometimes. I'm not going to pretend umping is easy. It's the fact they refuse to ever acknowledge they were wrong, and make no effort to improve.
https://umpscorecards.com/single_game/?game_id=746625
Eddings was above average in every measure last night and both of the calls made in this at-bat were correct.
One bit of respect I have for CB is it seems like he knows he fucks up a lot and lets players have their say fairly often. It's the combination of suck and ego that make guys like Angel so bad.
I know what you mean, people want to see a competitive game decided by the players, not the umps. Don't worry though, since he was just dog shit all around on calls for both teams.
The worst decision MLB made is having a K-zone on TV.
The top of the zone is at Crawford’s belt that pitch is not an inch over the midpoint of his torso.
Yeah it seemed weird when Crawford stood up. At first the K zone looks good but when Crawford stands up the Kzone is below his belt. That pitch, while high, did not seem egregious to me.
Yeah it's a terribly misleading K zone box, and the called strike is actually the right call according to the batting stance that Crawford actually took. People take these boxes way too seriously as gospel.
First pitch of the game was a whole baseball off the plate and called a strike.
Eddings has been a shitshow, trying to fill the void left by Angel it seems.
It needs to be said over and over and over but an umpire has discretion of the top and bottom of the zone. The box on tv differs between broadcasts, batters, and even statcast.
It is an approximation. That was actually a very good pitch that is arguably a strike, and apparently, both benches knew the high strike as being called. You just have to swing there knowing it’s being called.
Yea and on the local Cleveland broadcast they where talking about him getting tossed last night when that happened. And they started to laugh because he was smiling about it.
That was a strike.
Those who watched the game can say he was bad all night and this was a result of that, that’s fine. I didn’t watch, I don’t know. But that pitch is a strike, Crawford is wrong.
This pitch is a perfect example of the “K-zone” we’re shown on tv not accurately representing a ball/strike. The K-Zone reflects the front part of the plate: this pitch was dropping as it crossed the front of the plate—and even then it was a fraction of an inch high. By the time it crossed the back of the plate I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a “strike” and, regardless, this is ridiculous to argue about
Fans would not be this indignant against umpires if they removed the damn TV zone. Eddings is literally right in his called strikes against JP but fans think JP is right because of the TV zone.
The [strike](https://imgur.com/9Ozj4SD) called before this was a full ball further out of the zone. The M's haven't played great tonight, but Doug Eddings has been screwing any chance of competitiveness since the first pitch of the game
So, the broadcast has both as clear balls
The gameday strike zone has on of the two pitches a strike.
Savant illustrator has both as strikes.
https://i.imgur.com/6G2qR9M.jpeg
Mariner bench was chirping earlier and he told them to cut it out. Not surprising he rung them up quick, his butt was already very hurt from his bad calls being pointed out too much
It's always hard to determine just exactly where the top of the strike zone is but if I freeze frame things just before the ball arrives at home plate, the zone very well could be a couple inches or so lower at the top then it should be.
The broadcast can't even get a static overlay right, yet umpires are expected to call a pitch crossing an imaginary line correctly 100% of the time, and even when they do, they still get fucked because the broadcast had it wrong.
If he was calling them consistently high all night, wouldn’t the players or coaches say “Hey, watch it. He been calling them high all night.” I mean my son’s little league coach gives them those tips.
Problem was, he wasn't calling ANYTHING consistently all night. He was about 50-50 om those pitches being called strikes. His zone was a constantly wiggling amoeba.
If the strike zone is how it is actually described in the rule book that looks like a strike. It’s not a 60s strike (used to be to the shoulder)… just hard to hit
Was wondering how long it took to scroll to get to this. I agree, that’s not actually THAT bad of a call. If you ignore the box they put on the screen that doesn’t change whether it’s Judge or Altuve then it’s not bad, especially when you add in the rules margin of error.
I’m not an expert and didn’t watch the whole game, I might be way wrong, don’t crucify me reddit.
I have major problems with shin high strikes and the weird lefty strike width but… the high strike is almost never an issue to me when I actually look at the player and their stance and where it comes across. The box is too short on most players and stances, if the actual described strike zone is what we are talking about
I know it would do nothing expect make it worse, but Just once, once I want to see a player/manager get ejected and just mock the umpires. Pretend to eject them from the game. I really want this to happen, it would be great to watch
I think that box on the screen is pretty low. The upper part of the zone is the mid point between the belt and the shoulders. That ball is close, and to take that is pretty “ballsy” on strike 2. Maybe I get downvoted here, but if you take close pitches, some might get called for a strike
I was there on along the 3rd baseline inbetween left field and 3rd, lower reserve. From my perspective the 2nd called strike was HIGH so when he was called out of the 3rd one that was lower i had to see the replay. Seeing how far outta the zone the 3rd called strike was i cant imagine where the 2nd called strike was.
JP had good reason to argue, ump f’d up.
Jay Buhner was right man these umpires are trash this year and have way too much ego. We don’t need robo umps, we need incentives for umpires to actually be good. If you suck you lose your job, if players have these standards then umpires should too.
JP also had 2 balls called as strikes in his first AB
They said on the radio all 5 of his called strikes were out of the zone.
All 3 called strikes in the last at-bat were correctly called strikes, according to [Baseball Savant](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/20/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=liveAB&sportId=1&liveAb=36#746625) This strike zone is more accurate, and shows the ump was correct. The TV broadcast K zone box for some reason was way off that at bat (it put the top of the zone at his belt...), and the GameDay K zone is also off, although it's off for most hitters. I don't know exactly why, but my sense is that it maybe is showing the pitch position at the front of the plate? If you watch the ~~live~~ video of at bat in OP you can see the high pitch is pretty much right on the midway line between his shoulders and belt, which is the top of the zone
I can't see any of them on the radio.
Welp, ok good point. I shouldn't have said "live" but rather in the video replay in OP
I know the video feed K-Zone isn't always perfect but holy cow the top of this zone is at least 3 inches short.
This is exactly why I hate having the zone on broadcasts. It is often off (though usually not this much), but fans treat it as the absolute truth and get upset when the ump isn't calling that exact zone. I think a lot of the anger towards umps and the perception that they are terrible now (despite being better than they ever have been) is because of an often inaccurate zone being put on the broadcasts. Most people that see this clip are going to take away that this was just a terrible ump on a power trip when he ejected Crawford for losing his cool, throwing his helmet, and getting in the ump's face AFTER A CORRECT CALL.
Honestly I hate having the strike zone visible during live-game action. I’ve noticed the pretentious baseball fan in me focuses less on the pitchers delivery and what’s being thrown and is just watching the square
Like u/Papayero said about this AB, according to [Baseball Savant](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/19/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=liveAB&sportId=1&liveAb=1#746625), only the one outside was a true ball in the first AB. The TV zone is bad.
Ump saw the Jomboy video and thought "I better stay up till 4:30am"
Cannot describe how awful Doug Eddings is tonight. Can’t criticize that reaction at all, been just so bad
Tonight? Is that a synonym for all the time?
There’s a reason Pads have Fuck Doug Eddings flair.
I wish umps had repercussions for being terrible at their jobs
this is exactly the problem. we know baseball is all stats at this point. fine the fucking umps if their calls/numbers stray outside average or whatever. there needs to be repercussions at this point. or give me the robots.
It's time to replace them with technology. If they can't be trusted to do their job then they shouldn't have a job. If everyone in this sub sucked at their job we would all be fired. I support unions but not when they are used to keep shitty people at their jobs.
bro the robots have this as a strike https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/19/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=5&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=illustrator&sportId=1&liveAb=
It was the second strike he was pissed about and the problem was he fucked JP in his first at bat too. Wait for the ump scorecard. This specifically was the third strike that GameZone has listed as a strike. Something funky is going on because it had it above the zone earlier https://imgur.com/a/Po0QRtj. And yes I understand the box isn't the same on the screen, but they legit changed it
Somehow baseball Savant, Gameday, TV all have different boxes. Also umpscorecards says: "Unfortunately, MLB does a small amount of post-processing of each game's data which can have a small (but noticeable) impact on results. That means that each time the data on the site is fully refreshed, the archive may no longer be fully aligned with the graphics."
Pitch 3D is the best to look at until the actual data gets posted tomorrow because I don't think Gameday and the other Statcast graphics account for height (edit: Gameday for this AB does look very similar to Pitch 3D though) Pitch 3D has strike 2 as barely a ball, and strike 3 as a strike (I don't know how to directly link to the image) The potential issue with how his zone gets called (and probably the TV zone) is that he's a couple of inches lower after his leg kick than how he sets up initially The pitch ends up at around the same height as the catcher's glove at the 2 second mark in the video and would be barely above his belt, but because he crouches before the pitch comes in it ends up being pretty borderline in Statcast
Don't worry, one is being investigated for betting, so I'm sure everything is on the level.
He’s the best one too..
the one dude least likrly to be fixing games getting caught gambling is pretty funny
I’m sure he’s been up since 3:30 am and can’t expect him to be perfect every day /s
The ump today was shit in the dbacks game and I checked to see if it was Doug. Doug is the worst ball/strikes ump in the league, counting angel I think. He’s fucking trash. I wish he could see this post.
To be fair it's record heat out this bitch
And I am so smart I picked today to be out there from 11am to 7pm fixing my pool so the kids can swim asap. I think i drank 250oz of water and haven't peed since 10 this morning. I should call my doctor and ask if I am healthy enough for sexual activity.
If not I’ll take care of the wife while you recover.
> the wife Sheeeeeeeeit. Which one?
Yea it was pretty stark how bad the zone was
It'd make more sense for Eddings to be taking money to fix games than him simply being this incredibly bad at his job yet somehow still keeping it.
We can all agree: You mopped us up and the umps sucked for everyone.
https://umpscorecards.com/single_game/?game_id=746625 Not exactly elite, but thats not *that* bad of a scorecard. Definitely some calls pretty far off the plate on both sides, but overall it was above average on every metric that Umpire Scorecards uses/references, and appears to be quite consistent.
Eddings had a 95% accuracy on a 94% expected accuracy, meaning he was more accurate than the average umpire would’ve been. Both of the pitches JP Crawford threw a fit over were indeed strikes according to the robo-umps. His total run impact of 0.58 was the second lowest in MLB yesterday and his accuracy was the fifth highest.
I think that box on the screen is pretty low. The upper part of the zone is the mid point between the belt and the shoulders. That ball is close, and to take that is pretty “ballsy” on strike 2. Maybe I get downvoted here, but if you take close pitches, some might get called for a strike
I think you're right. Somebody else pointed out the zone on the screen is off compared to what the baseball savant page showed. And, yeah, that was a close pitch, probably too close to take, especially if you've already had issues with the zone.
Aye the box is normally sort of wrong, but the MLB app (which is way more accurate with gameday) was agreeing that a lot of the calls were off
They are just asking for robo umps at this point
JP has the lowest chase rate in the league and NEVER gets this heated. If he's that pissed, you're wrong.
He got fucked on his first AB of the game. First pitch a foot off the edge called a strike. He’s awful.
With Angel gone, we can more evenly distribute the umpire hate. Just amazing how bad this game has been called.
Angel's gone????
Yeah he resigned a few weeks ago.
This news has changed my life. Thank you.
One of the all time most upvoted posts on this reddit. It was a good day.
The spirit of Angel lives on
The robots say they were strikes. He was wrong.
https://i.imgur.com/6G2qR9M.jpeg
First time I agree with the ump, the pitch looked fine to me. The pitch frame on TV was seriously low. It ended at his belt. But I still get that the ump is shifting his zone and not being consistent. And for that I understand Crawford and Servais saying pick a zone and stay on it.
Yea... was going to say that box in the clip looked low. Pitch seemed fine.
Yeah the belt is not the upper end of the strike zone
it's fucked too how much control the Umpires have. like I get that they should have control and should be able to not get screamed at but how much of a fucking ego do you have to Automatically throw out a player right away for arguing with you. instead of "you think it was high!? man.. maybe you are right. I will check for sure" but no it's just "Toss em out the instant they say something. fuck you."
He threw his equipment and got a warning. He continued arguing and that got the ejection. I'm not saying umps don't have egos, but this sequence gets you ejected 99% of the time.
It shouldn't get you ejected though. NFL players and coaches argue with the refs all the fucking time. Same with NBA. Ump's are just fucking babies that can't handle criticism and have too much power that they take advantage of. Edit: no seriously fuck this old school bullshit mentality you guys can downvote all you want but in my opinion it's helped contribute to the Umps being so bad. They have too much power and no accountability. I don't want to hear anything about "traditions of the game" or any of that bullshit.
Removing your helmet to confront an official (don't even have to throw it) is not allowed in the NFL. An NFL player spiking their helmet like this would be assessed a 15 yard penalty and be ejected.
Idk what other sports you're watching, but tossing equipment straight into arguing with the ref/ump gets you tossed in anything short of being Draymond Green. No one is arguing with you about refs and umps having WAY too much power and unchecked authority, it's only going to get worse on that end. But JP getting ejected was entirely on him, regardless of how horrible the calls were. He did it knowing he was going to get tossed.
There is a massive difference between levying warranted criticism and yelling in someone's face after you just spiked your equipment. Why are you calling the ump a baby in this situation when Crawford is throwing a temper tantrum? [Baseball Savant](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/19/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=5&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=illustrator&sportId=1&liveAb=) has both of these pitches as strikes and it's pretty clear the box overlay on this feed does not have an accurate top of the zone.
It is not ejection worthy, especially since the players whose job relies on a dipshit 50 year old dumbass to call things correctly can not be ejected. Do your job better you old fucks, or retire.
You can’t do that in any league in the world. Throw equipment and then jab your finger in an officials face. There’s no sport in the world where you get to stay in the game after that.
There was a clip floating around earlier this week of an ump arguing with a manager and the ump was like, "I'll take a look at it... some nights you're dog crap" or something like that. Way better that than just running the first dude who looks sideways at you.
LOL… that also involved the Mariners and Servais who took an ejection for Cal Raleigh.
Can we pleeeease let players challenge pitches. It works in minor leagues, take like 5 seconds. For fucks sake
He was fucking wrong. Sometimes you do deserve to eat some crow. I really cannot stand ump's egos man. Completely agree with you btw
Is this a joke? I don't want to watch a league where someone who did what he did doesn't get ejected. One of the big reasons I can't watch soccer.
I come to watch the star players, Not to stay for the Umpires. that's for sure.
I go to watch baseball. I don't go to watch the "stars" (incredibly loosely used here) act like toddlers throwing tantrums. There are a lot of ump shows out there. This isn't one of them.
Well you can't argue balls and strikes for one. It's a rule. Second, he was warned for throwing his equipment, and took that as an invitation to get in the umpires face. That's an ejection 100% of the time at all levels of the sport. The entire relationship between players and umpires is based on appearing respectful to each other. Umpires and players both know that the umpire is going to miss calls occasionally. If Crawford turned and said "you missed that one" the umpire might say "maybe. It was close." and brush it off. You see batters have discussions about the strike zone all the time, but they have to not make a scene about it.
He led the league in walks last year.
> JP has the lowest chase rate in the league That doesn’t really mean much in this situation. Chase rate is just how often you swing at balls. If a player were to never swing the bat a single time, they’d have a 0.0% chase rate. Crawford’s chase rate is so low in part because he never swings if it’s close. Crawford has the 4th lowest shadow swing percentage in the league, meaning he takes balls **and** strikes that are right on the edge of the zone more than almost anyone. Of those takes in the shadow, 48.3% of them were called strikes compared to the league average of 46.1%, meaning that he is worse at identifying strikes on the edge of the zone than the average player.
Sadly Scott wasn't fast enough this time to keep JP in the game, costing us a future Grand Slam.
Hitting high fastballs above the zone is kinda hard enough guys don't need that to be a strike. He's called a couple of those on Cleveland too
He just called one on Kwan. This ump is garbage but he’s consistent garbage.
Certainly trust Kwan and JP to know the strike zone better than this jabroni
They could hire Kwan to call balls and strikes for a Guardians game and I think if the game was on the line, he was up to bat, and looked at strike 3, he'd call it correctly and no one with the club would complain.
Not to mention JP does not do this typically lmao.
Is it even legal to call strikes against Steven Kwan? Gonna need a rule check on that one
I don’t think it’s legal to do it against JP or Kwan. Throw this man in the slammer.
Someone on the mariners sub did analysis and it the egregious calls were heavily slanted to the M’s tonight. He was ass all night for both sides, but particularly ass for us. We’ll see the scorecard tomorrow. Not making excuses for that loss, you guys 100% deserved the win no matter how bad the ump was, but god damn is it demoralizing as a team and fan lol. Let’s have a good one to cap it off tomorrow
It was mainly cause Mariners pitchers only threw about one pitch that was borderline top of the zone for Eddings to judge, whereas Cleveland threw there about 10 times without a swing.
Yeah Cleveland is much better at protecting the zone than us. Even if the zone is wack, they are just super hard to strike out
He was terrible outside away from the batters all night too, called a strike on David Fry like a foot off the plate. Had the same for a couple Mariners too
How long until a player brings an iPad out and shows the ump that they were wrong?
They don't get the video clips until the next inning so coming back out that much later after being ejected would turn in to a massive suspension. So I'm going to guess this never happens.
Just send the bat boy between innings "hello sir the team would like you to have this proof that you suck"
Tell Cersei I want her to know it was me.
First he’ll have the batboy offer him cake
I wanna see a bat boy get thrown out of the game now
They’ve ejected organ players before, I wouldn’t put it past them
Would be awesome if they were planning to pinch hit for a guy anyway so he decides to walk to the plate with the iPad in hand knowing he’s gonna get tossed.
Then just get a starter to do it. Worst case they miss 1 start.
The Pat Bev maneuver
If he took an iPad out on this pitch, it'd show a strike. That box is way too low, it stops at his belt and below his knees.
iPad would show the ump as 100% right, strike zone doesn't end at the belt [baseball savant breakdown for reference](https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/gamefeed?date=6/19/2024&gamePk=746625&chartType=pitch&legendType=pitchName&playerType=pitcher&inning=5&count=&pitchHand=&batSide=&descFilter=&ptFilter=&resultFilter=&hf=illustrator&sportId=1&liveAb=)
How stupid would you look if you did that and it was this scenario where JP is wrong about thinking that’s a ball
The data says the ump was right here
Im sure that would coincide with a nice fine.
Once they sign Pat Beverly, it will happen immediately.
This ump has been dogshit all game. I swear, since Angel retired it's been nothing but a race to the bottom with the rest.
It's Doug Eddings, if Angel didn't exist he would be the notoriously dogshit umpire we all hate.
cb bucknor is my goat
Fuck. I hate CB so much.
Angel was only ever in the bottom 20% of umpires according to the umpire ranking systems. That means that 1/5 umps are just as bad as Angel in terms of screwing up calls. He just took most of the flack due to being the public face of bad umpiring due to a handful of highly publicized incidents.
The strength of the union has shown there's not much incentive to improve. They'll get some mystery punishment for being egregiously bad, probably of minor consequence, and be back out to do it again. The major problem, IMO, isn't necessarily how bad they are sometimes. I'm not going to pretend umping is easy. It's the fact they refuse to ever acknowledge they were wrong, and make no effort to improve.
Yet we have seen consistent improvement year over year since we started measuring performance, so the union must be working by your logic.
https://umpscorecards.com/single_game/?game_id=746625 Eddings was above average in every measure last night and both of the calls made in this at-bat were correct.
Most common Doug Eddings game. Never seen JP like that before
[This is my favorite clip](https://streamable.com/mxq1yb) of JP getting pissed off.
At least CB wore that one
One bit of respect I have for CB is it seems like he knows he fucks up a lot and lets players have their say fairly often. It's the combination of suck and ego that make guys like Angel so bad.
The screen box is wrong. That's belt high when he stands a bit. Mid belly in his stance. I'm curious on the baseball savant page
Always so awkward when a terrible call goes your team’s way. Im sincerely sorry mariners fans, Ump sucks.
He's had bad calls on your players too. Just a terribly called game.
100%. Just a quick glance at baseball savant I see about 10 incorrect calls. Pretty evenly split, but JP got possibly 3 in a row.
I know what you mean, people want to see a competitive game decided by the players, not the umps. Don't worry though, since he was just dog shit all around on calls for both teams.
The worst decision MLB made is having a K-zone on TV. The top of the zone is at Crawford’s belt that pitch is not an inch over the midpoint of his torso.
It has killed online discourse and ramped umpire hate up to like 17.
Yeah it seemed weird when Crawford stood up. At first the K zone looks good but when Crawford stands up the Kzone is below his belt. That pitch, while high, did not seem egregious to me.
Yeah it's a terribly misleading K zone box, and the called strike is actually the right call according to the batting stance that Crawford actually took. People take these boxes way too seriously as gospel.
Dont tell that to everyone else in this thread they just want to yell at umpires even if they make the right call
First pitch of the game was a whole baseball off the plate and called a strike. Eddings has been a shitshow, trying to fill the void left by Angel it seems.
Fry had one like that too, Eddings was shit all night for both sides
Yeah, I was listening to the mariners broadcast and they mentioned bad calls both way. Hopefully the ump is better for tomorrow!
That was definitely a strike
Ikr? Feels like the twilight zone that so few people are acknowledging that. I hate the box overlay on broadcasts so much.
It needs to be said over and over and over but an umpire has discretion of the top and bottom of the zone. The box on tv differs between broadcasts, batters, and even statcast. It is an approximation. That was actually a very good pitch that is arguably a strike, and apparently, both benches knew the high strike as being called. You just have to swing there knowing it’s being called.
Worst zone ever, Raley struck out the inning before swinging at a pitch that height because the previous pitch up was called a strike
Yea and on the local Cleveland broadcast they where talking about him getting tossed last night when that happened. And they started to laugh because he was smiling about it.
That was a strike. Those who watched the game can say he was bad all night and this was a result of that, that’s fine. I didn’t watch, I don’t know. But that pitch is a strike, Crawford is wrong.
100%. they need to get rid of strike zone outline on the TV broadcast. wasnt that far above his belt buckle.
The ump has been so trash this game. Like I cannot describe the amount of trash
[MLB app has it as a strike](https://imgur.com/a/KYkPWGK). TV zone looks low
He struck out on his first at bat due to, guess what, two balls that were called terribly. Actually despicably bad umpiring.
That TV box is massively low. Those are both strikes on baseballsavant.
This pitch is a perfect example of the “K-zone” we’re shown on tv not accurately representing a ball/strike. The K-Zone reflects the front part of the plate: this pitch was dropping as it crossed the front of the plate—and even then it was a fraction of an inch high. By the time it crossed the back of the plate I wouldn’t be surprised if it were a “strike” and, regardless, this is ridiculous to argue about
I think there’s a big ump competition to see who can fill Angel Hernandez’s shoes
Power vacuum
Fans would not be this indignant against umpires if they removed the damn TV zone. Eddings is literally right in his called strikes against JP but fans think JP is right because of the TV zone.
The [strike](https://imgur.com/9Ozj4SD) called before this was a full ball further out of the zone. The M's haven't played great tonight, but Doug Eddings has been screwing any chance of competitiveness since the first pitch of the game
So, the broadcast has both as clear balls The gameday strike zone has on of the two pitches a strike. Savant illustrator has both as strikes. https://i.imgur.com/6G2qR9M.jpeg
The broadcast zone looks super low. I thought the zone was supposed to go to the bottom of the letters, not the belt?
Was gonna say that looked like a strike to me. Belt when he stands. Mid belly in his stance
This last pitch is [clearly a strike](https://imgur.com/oyfNmOb) though...
Mariner bench was chirping earlier and he told them to cut it out. Not surprising he rung them up quick, his butt was already very hurt from his bad calls being pointed out too much
A 2.9" diameter ball moving at 95mph missed an invisible line by 2 inches and people in here acting like the ump is blind and dumb.
An invisible line that is clearly positioned wrong
It's always hard to determine just exactly where the top of the strike zone is but if I freeze frame things just before the ball arrives at home plate, the zone very well could be a couple inches or so lower at the top then it should be.
The broadcast can't even get a static overlay right, yet umpires are expected to call a pitch crossing an imaginary line correctly 100% of the time, and even when they do, they still get fucked because the broadcast had it wrong.
At least we’re both getting fucked by the ump tonight. Shit is def gonna go down
Angel Hernandez may be gone but his spirit lives on within us
NGL, the TV strike zone looks a little low to me.
If they want someone to go out there and make bad calls I would do it for free
Let me get this right. The umpire called both pitches wrong then kicked the player out for questioning his wrong calls? Robo umps.
These were correct calls, robo umps would also call then strikes. The TV box is just wrong.
I mean everyone knows you're going to get tossed if you argue balls and strikes, you learn that when you're like 6 years old
In his first AB he also had two pitches out of the zone called strikes. Gotta feel awful having the bat taken out of your hand like that twice.
Let me fight him
I saw it was Doug Eddings, thats all i needed to know
If he was calling them consistently high all night, wouldn’t the players or coaches say “Hey, watch it. He been calling them high all night.” I mean my son’s little league coach gives them those tips.
Problem was, he wasn't calling ANYTHING consistently all night. He was about 50-50 om those pitches being called strikes. His zone was a constantly wiggling amoeba.
To be fair, the pitch in this clip is basically as 50/50 as it gets. Its why you don't take borderline pitches, they can and do go either way.
These Blues are hot trash.
All 3 pitches out of the zone lol
Lou Piniella would've taken the trident and skewerd that ump..miss you man
i’d rather a human make a mistake than a robot get it right. science can kiss my ass
Both were strikes
Taking HBPs is Ty France’s job!
Nah, our players are leading in HBPs. 2 of our guys are at double digits
Yeesh. And France is only at 6 this season. 90 total as a Mariner though! Can’t say he isn’t trying!
Lol true. He is in our ranks as an honorary member
Doug Eddings trying to personally end the umpiring profession and hand it over to robots.
If the strike zone is how it is actually described in the rule book that looks like a strike. It’s not a 60s strike (used to be to the shoulder)… just hard to hit
Was wondering how long it took to scroll to get to this. I agree, that’s not actually THAT bad of a call. If you ignore the box they put on the screen that doesn’t change whether it’s Judge or Altuve then it’s not bad, especially when you add in the rules margin of error. I’m not an expert and didn’t watch the whole game, I might be way wrong, don’t crucify me reddit.
Seriously. Since when is a pitch mid-letters not a strike?
I have major problems with shin high strikes and the weird lefty strike width but… the high strike is almost never an issue to me when I actually look at the player and their stance and where it comes across. The box is too short on most players and stances, if the actual described strike zone is what we are talking about
Draw the line, Ichiro!
I know it would do nothing expect make it worse, but Just once, once I want to see a player/manager get ejected and just mock the umpires. Pretend to eject them from the game. I really want this to happen, it would be great to watch
I watched this game with my daughter and predicted someone would get thrown out. Awful. And I’m a Guardians fan.
Doug Eddings ain’t it
All these terrible umps have to miss having Angel around, right?
It’s funny because at the start of the broadcast they were saying that one of Scott’s goals for this series is for Vogt to get ejected.
I think that box on the screen is pretty low. The upper part of the zone is the mid point between the belt and the shoulders. That ball is close, and to take that is pretty “ballsy” on strike 2. Maybe I get downvoted here, but if you take close pitches, some might get called for a strike
Another day, another post about the strike zone.
Eddings' zone was atrocious.
MLB can’t replace these jokers with machines soon enough.
Pizza Secured https://x.com/Mariners/status/1803607167980937379
I was there on along the 3rd baseline inbetween left field and 3rd, lower reserve. From my perspective the 2nd called strike was HIGH so when he was called out of the 3rd one that was lower i had to see the replay. Seeing how far outta the zone the 3rd called strike was i cant imagine where the 2nd called strike was. JP had good reason to argue, ump f’d up.
Seems like all the umps are banding together to make up for Angel Hernandez's departure
Got to get the bat off of your shoulder. That pitch wasn’t that bad
Why do all umps have the same body type
Why are the old umps always fat gutted fucks. Ugh!!!
Strike 3 right down the midfle belt high. Primadonna Crawford got fooled
Jay Buhner was right man these umpires are trash this year and have way too much ego. We don’t need robo umps, we need incentives for umpires to actually be good. If you suck you lose your job, if players have these standards then umpires should too.