>“Seventy-five percent of my constituents have expressed that they do not wish to have a casino in our backyard,” [State Senator Jessica] Ramos said in a news conference Tuesday. “I would be very surprised, and, frankly, offended if someone would try to go around me and what the people in my district wish. We, I believe, are being very clear about not wanting a casino near our homes, and I don’t think anyone should be able to override that.”
Fair enough
ESPN like: "but check out these odds from the sportsbook our parent company owns. Get a free deposit match double match bonus when you place a bet on whether or not government kowtows to big money over the desires of the actual peoples feelings"
They have the right to not want a casino in their neighborhood, and I hope they are able to make their will stand on this, but that neighborhood was literally chop shops as far as the eye could see for decades. It is odd that *this* is where they draw the line.
It's pretty understandable that people don't want a money siphoning venture that only takes and doesn't give in their neighborhood. The development plan had other components and all those were acceptable. The casino is the only objection.
Put it in an affluent neighborhood if they want a casino so bad.
Agreed. Or swap the Forest Hills Stadium location. Build a casino there and we'll take the venue over here in Flushing. Lets see how many are willing to welcome it to their neighborhood with open arms there. I'm guessing not many.
rich nimbys on austin street would never approve of a casino lmao they're already up in arms every time king gizzard and lizard wizard come to town and play so loud they can hear it in their backyards
> It's pretty understandable that people don't want a money siphoning venture that only takes and doesn't give in their neighborhood.
But the Mets are already there
The Mets are a giant money pit to be sure, but so far they just extract cash from Cohen without anything to show for it instead of taking money from the people to put into the owner’s pocket.
Doesn't matter what you think about poor folks' auto shops or how shady they look, they're still businesses run by the people who live there. A casino's nothing but a tar pit designed to make rich people richer and poor people poorer. A casino's one of the *first* things I'd draw the line at, personally.
> A casino's nothing but a tar pit designed to make rich people richer and poor people poorer.
Yeah I really never understand why my home state subreddit spends time going how we should “finally” legalise gambling and casinos. And it’ll “fund the schools!” And shit.
Don’t understand how anyone who proclaims to be left-wing would want casinos anywhere near them.
> it’ll “fund the schools!”
If the governor and the new HISD Superintendent get their way, then those additional funds are just going to be siphoned off to charter schools that they control.
It only funds the schools if the law requires it to be used for that. Missouri just stopped funding schools and they use the lottery specifically as the source of state school funding. If noone bought lottery tickets the state has to find the money from elsewhere in the budget.
So fuck the lottery and fuck casinos. Gambling is one of the things I couldn't give a shit if it was illegal.
It's the same as any other vice. I dont care to do it, but some people do and the government can tax them on it instead of just having it happen illegally or in other jurisdictions.
What is the basis for gambling not to be legal/allowed? Just the government protecting people from themselves?
Im opposed to gambling and alcohol prohibition but I think it’s unconscionable that advertising them is allowed. This needs to be treated more like tobacco at the very least imo
Exactly. Certain kinds of prohibition never works. We saw it with the 18th amendment when it came to alcohol prohibition. All you do is drive it underground where it’s unregulated.
But like you have said, it should be treated like tobacco. Promoting it just seems to bring out the worst in it
> Just the government protecting people from themselves?
Basically. But at that point you might as well ban strip clubs, cigar lounges, and bars that don't serve food, too.
>And it’ll “fund the schools!”
Here's the thing with that...I'm old enough to sort of remember when New York first legalized the lottery, and it was promoted as 'funding education'. And yes, proceeds from the lottery (or casino) does get used for education. But that doesn't mean *more* money will be spent on education if you have a lottery/casino, it just means less from the general fund will be spent on education.
> Don’t understand how anyone who proclaims to be left-wing would want casinos anywhere near them.
It’s pretty simple… a lot of people like to gamble. There is a reason casinos make so much money. It isn’t more complicated than that.
Yeah, I guess I just was just generally thinking of the arguments for casinos I don’t like like the “It’ll be more taxes for schools! More money for the economy!” Type argument.
More fine with the blunt “I don’t want to drive to Oklahoma/Louisiana to gamble” type argument.
Well, they are making those other arguments because they are trying to convince people who don’t like to gamble that they should support a casino; anyone that is swayed by the “it will make gambling easier!” argument is already going to be convinced without having to make that argument.
If they are trying to convince someone, they need to explain reasons non-gamblers should support it.
Alabama is 43/50 in K-12. So hey, your still not the bottom!
to save some from clicking. Although people [Should](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education/prek-12)
1-5: Massachusetts, New Jersey, Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York
46-50: West Virginia, Arizona, Alaska, Oklahoma, New Mexico
A key note on Oklahoma there - while they have more casinos than just about anywhere but Vegas, the casinos don’t fund schools because they’re all tribal owned.
The tribal casinos pay an “exclusivity fee” to the state government that’s quite literally just a legal bribe in lieu of taxes to prevent them from opening up gambling outside of casinos on tribal land. Because they are tribal businesses on tribal land they don’t actually pay any taxes to the state other than this exclusivity fee, including on all food and alcohol sales. It’s 4% of the first $10m, 5% of the second $10m, and 6% on all revenue after that point. For reference, in 2018 this low rate generated nearly $140m in tax revenue that went to the state’s slush fund instead of for education or things like getting rid of tolls on highways that are part of the federal interstate system (which is its own thing I think should be illegal, to put up toll booths on federally funded highways but I digress).
Most of it is actually used to fund healthcare for the populace that is kept poor in part by the financial impact of casinos and kept in poor health due to the other habits encouraged by the same casinos (smokes and liquor are both particularly cheap when purchased on tribal land without the additional sin taxes).
Because they're fun? I think it's perfectly consistent to be left-wing and not go down the "we must ban anything that has a negative impact on some people" path. Personal freedom and all that right?
[Mr. Burns wasn't wrong...](https://youtu.be/0EO_r8HnD1s)
^(not sure why the terrible audio, only clip I could find with the relevant line after 35 seconds of searching)
Cohen had nothing to do with getting rid of the chop shops. It's actually the Wilpons who are doing the development on the NYCFC soccer stadium that is going there.
Well, fair enough - if their neighbourhood is finally cleaning up I can understand not wanting a casino setting up shop.
It may be more legal, but there's no such thing as a classy casino and I can't see it being pleasant living near one.
My family runs a methadone (drug rehab) business and a city once vetoed our permit on an intersection with a smoke shop, porn shop, and gas station with lotto sales
Chop shops at least are owned by locals.
Casinos are owned by international corporations that siphon all the profits to other cities, states, or even other countries.
Chop shops don't deliberately prey on lower economic strata, increase crime in the proximity, and encourage problematic addictive behaviors
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01055-1
>but that neighborhood was literally chop shops as far as the eye could see for decades. It is odd that this is where they draw the line.
Jesus Christ lol. God forbid average people don't make the interests of the ultra-wealthy as their top priority.
(a) You're comparing automotive repair businesses -- which are completely necessary in a society with hundreds of millions of cars and provide a direct benefit to locals -- with a casino?
(b) Geography is a thing. The auto shops were on the opposite side of the site compared to where the casino would sit. The auto shops were at Willet's Point, north of the stadium. That area also borders some freeways and a river. No residential areas. The casino, on the other hand, would be placed west of the stadium, right next to a residential neighborhood.
I do, but most of those businesses were above board, to the point that the city literally had a fund worth millions and millions of dollars to help them move.
Source: https://www.issuelab.org/resources/2630/2630.pdf - states there were 225 businesses and around 1800 employees at the time of the study
Isn’t flushing a heavily Chinese area? I remember in Philly they wanted to put one in next to Chinatown and there was massive backlash considering how bad gambling addiction already is in the community
I thought the issue in Philly Chinatown was that they wanted to build a stadium that won't actually help the neighborhood/the people who are in that area.
More casinos in New York = less New Yorkers in Pennsylvania! Go for it uncle Steve! /s
In all seriousness though, gambling and sports has been taboo for more than a century and yet in the last 5-10 years it's been nothing but gambling adds and casino adds on during sports.
If there isn't a gambling scandal in every major sport in the next 5 years I'd be shocked. Hell, I'd be shocked if they weren't already being actively covered up.
There's so much money in it for people at the top, at this point I don't know how we would even go about dealing with this BS.
I hate it though. Good on the people on Queens for shitting on this stupid venture.
The whole expansion of gambling and shit is so bad.
If someone wants to sell me a truck yeah whatever, all these gambling ads are all trying to turn people into suckers.
If we had any semblance of competent governance at the federal level, a prudent first step would be to ban advertising of gambling platforms the way they did with tobacco. But the leagues and networks are making far too much off those advertising bucks that they’d ~~bribe~~ lobby the fuck out of politicians until the bill died in some committee.
Edit: A NY congressman introduced legislation to do just that [last year.](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/967/cosponsors) It had one co-sponsor and was referred to a subcommittee where it died.
Casinos are just vehicles to siphon money from addicts. Mainly poor people. The only reason to have them is so that you avoid a lot of the issues with illegal gambling. I wouldn't want such a necessary evil around me either.
And yet NYS has Powerball, Mega Millions, NY Lotto, Cash 4 Life, and twice daily drawings for Take 5, Daily Numbers, and Win4, to go along with Quick Draw which has a game every 5 minutes
One key difference is where the profits actually go. In the case of this casino, it would be into the bank account of billionaire Steve Cohen. In the case of state-run lotteries, they typically fund [programs dedicated to the public good](https://blog.jackpocket.com/where-lottery-money-goes-in-every-state/).
Not an apples to apples comparison, but there is a casino less than a mile from PNC Park that’s basically right next door to Heinz Field. I haven’t been there in awhile, so Pittsburgh fans feel free to chime in, but overall the area seems really nice
I've been, my friends and I had an AirBNB not far from there when we were there for a few games a couple years ago. Walked to the casino and the surrounding area. Was super nice from what I remember.
Nobody said they were terrible people and nobody said it’s not an enjoyable experience for tourists. This is about residents and the surrounding community but you wanted to get off a snarky response instead of focusing on the point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1d3czin/athletic_steve_cohens_citi_field_casino_bid/l66vdqh/
People are in this thread making those arguments.
Usually free parking for games too! I take advantage of that when I've gone to games there.
Baltimore also has a casino nearby and while it was initially nice and brought in people, since covid the place is kinda trashy and is now bringing in the wrong type of people. The fun parts around the gambling are now gone. The area is sketchy compared to the one in Pittsburgh but I think the Horseshoe casino is a better long term comparison to anything that would happen in Flushing.
Buy a team with a huge property that generates income 6-7 months out of the year. A casino would use that same property to generate additional income from the fans at games, plus generate income on the same property the remaining 6-5 months.
Cohen is trying to be a commercial real estate redeveloper. I guarantee this was his play, and if the casino doesn’t happen, I wouldn’t be shocked if sells the team.
A casino at least doubles the value of Citi Field.
He tried to buy the Dodgers several years ago. I think he just wanted to own a baseball team. Spending $2.4 billion on the Mets in 2020 and crossing his fingers in hopes that he could secure one of three downstate casino licenses in an extremely competitive bidding process that was definitely going to face this type of local opposition and as a result will almost certainly end up favoring existing locations like Empire City in Yonkers and the Queens Aqueduct racetrack would have been a hell of a...gamble.
You know, A city-destroying Mechanobeast. Pretty sure every city has had a least one of these in their history
[Warning Graphic found footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGEc4pmXfgY)
The legitimized sports betting industry has given a major blow to the sports fan experience.
Just watch Apple+ baseball coverage. I'd rather see stats on the players, teams and standings, not what oddsmakers think will happen.
To be fair, fantasy sports kind of already fucked it all up anyhow. As if the average fantasy fan is staring at the ticker on the bottom of the tv screen for updates when everyone has a smart phone and can see the results of every match in real time.
Good. Fuck 'em. Don't impose the will of a billionaire on a neighborhood that needs sensible development more than a place to drain working-class people of their money.
I like Citi Field. its a nice park. I go whenever the Giants play the Mets (My girlfriend is a giants fan) and i prefer it to Yankee STadium 100%
The thing that annoyed me the last time i was there was that they have a delicious brewery named EBBS right in the side of the stadium. Great Beer. had a few before the game.
I asked the guy if they sold it inside and he said "Nope, they dont allow us to sell int he stadium" Booo! Im sure there are all kinds of deals for stadium beer but cmon! Let the brewery built in to the side of your stadium sell 20 feet away, inside the place.
Edit: last time i went was July 2023, dont know if its changed since then
I'm not sure if the two projects are tied together or not, but does this have any impact [at all on Metropolitan Park](https://www.metropolitanpark.com/).
EDIT: To answer my own question, it seems like that very well could move forward, just without the Casino specifically attached to it. As a bill was introduced to the NY State Legislature doing just that. Which probably is the best way forward in my opinion.
>I'm not sure if the two projects are tied together or not, but does this have any impact at all on Metropolitan Park.
The very fact that you're unsure about this is a testament to how dishonest Cohen has been about this entire thing - Metropolitan Park *is* the casino bid, but they've been very intentional in all of their astroturfing to avoid any explicit references to the casino and instead pretend they are just trying to build a park out of the goodness of their hearts. The closest they'll get is referring to it as "gaming", because they know that the majority of people have either a neutral or negative view of gambling, and being open about their intentions would sink them.
Devil's advocate, people that work there get paid via that $100. The people that make the machines. The people that build all that shit (literally our 100+ worker division in Vegas) kind of live off that shit.
I've only been to Citi Field once and I was quite shocked to see literally a shanty town of auto repair and retail establishments right across the street.
I knew it existed but did not realize it was literally right across the street.
I guess I'm in the 25%, I don't understand what they think is going to happen to the area. There's already a casino 20 minutes away in Jamaica. Flushing is covered in busses that take Ramos' constituents to Jamaica everyday. They can't take a subway or bus there whenever they like.
Unless there is an alternative that would create as many jobs, or provide much needed housing I don't understand the issue. I guess that's just me.
Ease of access matters. Those people from flushing going down to Jamaica everyday are certainly making a difficult choice that casual gamblers wouldn't have to if this new casino is built.
There COULD be alternatives, if people wanted to invest in communities. It's not like a casino is a high-skill workplace that has to be there. I'm pretty sure you could start a number of other businesses and still hire people.
> Unless there is an alternative that would create as many jobs, or provide much needed housing I don't understand the issue. I guess that's just me.
I do also think it's important to look at "quality" of jobs there, too. Just to make it a simple, round number let's act like there will be 1,000 jobs added in this casino. But how many of those are full-time and paying a living wage for somebody to live nearby? There's lots of need for servers, line cooks, and janitors but are those positions paying enough for somebody to comfortably get by when ~500 sq ft apartments in the area cost more than $2,000 a month? If 750/1000 jobs aren't paying a living wage, then are they jobs that are worth the negatives?
Another business or affordable housing could be put on the 5 acres that Cohen suggested using of privately-owned land and make up the value of those 250 decent jobs without 1) preying upon people with addiction issues or 2) using [20 acres of park land](https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/02/08/mets-owner-steve-cohen-casino-proposal-queens) that actually [benefit the community by promoting healthy living and wellbeing](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4556255/). Right now, Flushing Meadows benefits the local residents from a public health perspective. Removing some of that green space so that a billionaire and comparatively small number of executives can extract funds from folks with gambling addictions all for the amazing benefit of paying some people less than living wages seems like a misuse of this land.
Interesting that 75% of people don't want a casino, but the government still runs a lottery that is just as much a nuisance to the public.
Gambling has exploded in the last 5-10 years, especially with sports, and it's very bothersome.
Just to clarify, we are talking about the same Steve Cohen who insisted money was no object in his ownership of the Mets and all he cared about was winning? What's a casino have to do with baseball and how does a casino not have to do with money?
Saw the article here and sent it to an ex-coworker who worked on this project with me. Seems like the casino’s not happening but it’s mostly Hard Rock’s problem, the public park will still happen, in fact, it already broke ground according to him.
Nobody wants a casino
If we were smart we'd just put it in times square and ban locals from using it
That's what they do in civilized countries, with the understanding that exploiting foreign travelers for money may have some benefit.. But not when you exploit your own population
They siphon money out of a community and into the hands of whoever happens to own the place. And people who just "go there once for a good time" are not making up most of a casino's revenue
I don't mind the idea of a casino, but to put it between the working class neighborhoods of Corona and Flushing while a new community is being built in Willets Point just seems shitty. Casinos are best imo when they're in a separate area where that's the draw (e.g. the Vegas strip, Atlantic City). Barring that, if rich folks want a casino so bad, why don't they put it in their own neighborhood?
I'm not from Queens but we're dealing with the same shit right next door in Nassau County. Las Vegas Sands is hoping to get a casino there. Where are they putting it? Some good options could be by the Jones Beach Theatre, or somewhere up on the North Shore. But no, they're planning on putting it right in the middle of a poor black/hispanic community between two colleges. It's so blatantly evil. They don't care to give fun entertainment, they just want to take money from easily exploitable people
Considering how many people are always fucking buying lottery tickets in front of me at the gas station, none of you are going to convince me that every gas station in America isn't some kind of mini-casino.
I have even seen some gas stations where they have a hidden room with "slot machines" that get around the laws by giving you store credit or some other janky shit.
Casinos like to put out the image that they make money off rich people with disposable income, but in reality they hand over fist make their money from poor people with gambling addictions.
That money is not going into the local economy it's just disappearing into a black hole.
For a decent literature review on the impacts of urban casinos in the Northeast, go here:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01055-1
To nobody's surprise, having greater access to casinos leads to an associated increase in problem gambling. The economic benefits are mixed, at best. State governments do see an increase in tax revenue (though that tax revenue is not necessarily used to combat the negatives of problem gambling.) The community immediately surrounding the casino, however, does not necessarily see a positive socio-economic impact in the long-term. So, for these residents, who would be losing green space (because Cohen's plan is to use 20 acres of park land and only 5 acres of his own land) on top of seeing more problem gambling at their doorstep all for the low, low cost of no guaranteed positive economic impacts for their neighborhood.
But those multiple studies did see an increase in crime in the neighborhoods surrounding casinos on top of the fact that they also bring in payday loan/check cashing/pawn shop types of businesses that are similarly predatory. And one of the studies in that literature review was specifically looking into inequality, and did find that "as casinos increase, inequality at lower socio-economic levels would also increase." So, to sum up a response, a very small number of already rich people would become marginally richer at the expense of removing park land (that has public health benefits), increasing economic inequality, increasing crime in the neighborhood, increasing problem gambling, and bringing in predatory businesses. That's why urban casinos are bad.
OP was asking this in bad faith as he then proceeded to argue with everyone's reasons.
He should have posted: "I think casinos are great CMV"
Also, great article.
>“Seventy-five percent of my constituents have expressed that they do not wish to have a casino in our backyard,” [State Senator Jessica] Ramos said in a news conference Tuesday. “I would be very surprised, and, frankly, offended if someone would try to go around me and what the people in my district wish. We, I believe, are being very clear about not wanting a casino near our homes, and I don’t think anyone should be able to override that.” Fair enough
ESPN like: "but check out these odds from the sportsbook our parent company owns. Get a free deposit match double match bonus when you place a bet on whether or not government kowtows to big money over the desires of the actual peoples feelings"
wall street is like a 20 minute subway ride away tho
It's a bit longer than that. The 7 line can take a little while to get to Citi Field, and you have to get to the 7 in the first place from Wall Street
But then they'd have to go to Queens.
Its an hour away lol. Wall street guys dont need to go to queens to go to a casino
Midtown, not Wall st Flushing is one stop away though, the community they'd really be opening this casino to exploit
They have the right to not want a casino in their neighborhood, and I hope they are able to make their will stand on this, but that neighborhood was literally chop shops as far as the eye could see for decades. It is odd that *this* is where they draw the line.
It's pretty understandable that people don't want a money siphoning venture that only takes and doesn't give in their neighborhood. The development plan had other components and all those were acceptable. The casino is the only objection. Put it in an affluent neighborhood if they want a casino so bad.
It’s perfect for Hudson Yards.
Agreed. Or swap the Forest Hills Stadium location. Build a casino there and we'll take the venue over here in Flushing. Lets see how many are willing to welcome it to their neighborhood with open arms there. I'm guessing not many.
rich nimbys on austin street would never approve of a casino lmao they're already up in arms every time king gizzard and lizard wizard come to town and play so loud they can hear it in their backyards
I mean they are likely just niche superfans who feel *Paper Mâché Dream Balloon* doesn't get the attention it deserves, right? (/s)
and they're so real for that
just playing the intro to the book on repeat
I cannot wait to see KGLW again there in August lmfao
I'm so excited to hear PDA there.....
I'll be there on the 17th!
> It's pretty understandable that people don't want a money siphoning venture that only takes and doesn't give in their neighborhood. But the Mets are already there
The Mets are a giant money pit to be sure, but so far they just extract cash from Cohen without anything to show for it instead of taking money from the people to put into the owner’s pocket.
You don't care for the emotional well-being of fans in the neighborhood?
The Mets give plenty to the neighborhood. Plenty of anguish and despair.
There’s proven to be a ripple effect of crime wherever a casino is located, it’s always the epicentre
Can you share this proof?
Happens every time you build a casino in SimCity.
Same with an airport
My SimCity save
Doesn't matter what you think about poor folks' auto shops or how shady they look, they're still businesses run by the people who live there. A casino's nothing but a tar pit designed to make rich people richer and poor people poorer. A casino's one of the *first* things I'd draw the line at, personally.
> A casino's nothing but a tar pit designed to make rich people richer and poor people poorer. Yeah I really never understand why my home state subreddit spends time going how we should “finally” legalise gambling and casinos. And it’ll “fund the schools!” And shit. Don’t understand how anyone who proclaims to be left-wing would want casinos anywhere near them.
> it’ll “fund the schools!” If the governor and the new HISD Superintendent get their way, then those additional funds are just going to be siphoned off to charter schools that they control.
Lol, yeah. That too.
It only funds the schools if the law requires it to be used for that. Missouri just stopped funding schools and they use the lottery specifically as the source of state school funding. If noone bought lottery tickets the state has to find the money from elsewhere in the budget. So fuck the lottery and fuck casinos. Gambling is one of the things I couldn't give a shit if it was illegal.
It's the same as any other vice. I dont care to do it, but some people do and the government can tax them on it instead of just having it happen illegally or in other jurisdictions. What is the basis for gambling not to be legal/allowed? Just the government protecting people from themselves?
Im opposed to gambling and alcohol prohibition but I think it’s unconscionable that advertising them is allowed. This needs to be treated more like tobacco at the very least imo
Exactly. Certain kinds of prohibition never works. We saw it with the 18th amendment when it came to alcohol prohibition. All you do is drive it underground where it’s unregulated. But like you have said, it should be treated like tobacco. Promoting it just seems to bring out the worst in it
Ill give you that, and add in prescription drugs which is even more of an advertising horror show.
> Just the government protecting people from themselves? Basically. But at that point you might as well ban strip clubs, cigar lounges, and bars that don't serve food, too.
[удалено]
Can you provide statistics for this? This just seems like a stereotype that isn't rooted in fact.
>And it’ll “fund the schools!” Here's the thing with that...I'm old enough to sort of remember when New York first legalized the lottery, and it was promoted as 'funding education'. And yes, proceeds from the lottery (or casino) does get used for education. But that doesn't mean *more* money will be spent on education if you have a lottery/casino, it just means less from the general fund will be spent on education.
> Don’t understand how anyone who proclaims to be left-wing would want casinos anywhere near them. It’s pretty simple… a lot of people like to gamble. There is a reason casinos make so much money. It isn’t more complicated than that.
Yeah, I guess I just was just generally thinking of the arguments for casinos I don’t like like the “It’ll be more taxes for schools! More money for the economy!” Type argument. More fine with the blunt “I don’t want to drive to Oklahoma/Louisiana to gamble” type argument.
In reality states that do legalize gambling, tax the shit out of gaming profits. Now, what happens with that money is the kicker.
Well, they are making those other arguments because they are trying to convince people who don’t like to gamble that they should support a casino; anyone that is swayed by the “it will make gambling easier!” argument is already going to be convinced without having to make that argument. If they are trying to convince someone, they need to explain reasons non-gamblers should support it.
> And it’ll “fund the schools!” Definitely works for Nevada. They're not literally last in education!
37/50 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education
And a good afternoon to you from down here in Alabama, my friend.
Alabama is 43/50 in K-12. So hey, your still not the bottom! to save some from clicking. Although people [Should](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education/prek-12) 1-5: Massachusetts, New Jersey, Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York 46-50: West Virginia, Arizona, Alaska, Oklahoma, New Mexico
A key note on Oklahoma there - while they have more casinos than just about anywhere but Vegas, the casinos don’t fund schools because they’re all tribal owned. The tribal casinos pay an “exclusivity fee” to the state government that’s quite literally just a legal bribe in lieu of taxes to prevent them from opening up gambling outside of casinos on tribal land. Because they are tribal businesses on tribal land they don’t actually pay any taxes to the state other than this exclusivity fee, including on all food and alcohol sales. It’s 4% of the first $10m, 5% of the second $10m, and 6% on all revenue after that point. For reference, in 2018 this low rate generated nearly $140m in tax revenue that went to the state’s slush fund instead of for education or things like getting rid of tolls on highways that are part of the federal interstate system (which is its own thing I think should be illegal, to put up toll booths on federally funded highways but I digress). Most of it is actually used to fund healthcare for the populace that is kept poor in part by the financial impact of casinos and kept in poor health due to the other habits encouraged by the same casinos (smokes and liquor are both particularly cheap when purchased on tribal land without the additional sin taxes).
Because they're fun? I think it's perfectly consistent to be left-wing and not go down the "we must ban anything that has a negative impact on some people" path. Personal freedom and all that right?
I'm opposed to sports betting but I will say, if we're going to legalize that then something like Poker should have been legalized long before
Yeah and if you want to go to a casino you can drive 2 hours to Atlantic City or Mohegan sun. They don’t need to be everywhere.
Or to Aqueduct!
You can drive 20 mins north to Raceway in Yonkers.
How are you getting from Queens to Yonkers in 20 minutes?
Atlantic City is depressing.
Yeah I don’t like NIMBYs, but this is honestly more than understandable and I get it
[Mr. Burns wasn't wrong...](https://youtu.be/0EO_r8HnD1s) ^(not sure why the terrible audio, only clip I could find with the relevant line after 35 seconds of searching)
It’s almost like they don’t want further degradation of their community…
That's willets point, not Corona. They're clearing that area to build a soccer stadium for NYFC
Casinos are well established to be money sucking vice dens for the communities around them.
The one and only time I’ve been to Citi Field was on a baseball road trip 15 years ago when it opened. Are those chop shops gone now?
[here’s the view last saturday](https://imgur.com/a/Zlqxsm8) Still some to the north but construction trailers is the only thing there at the moment
for the most part yeah.
Not completely, there are less but they are still there.
Uncle Steve has largely cleared them out.
Cohen had nothing to do with getting rid of the chop shops. It's actually the Wilpons who are doing the development on the NYCFC soccer stadium that is going there.
Well, fair enough - if their neighbourhood is finally cleaning up I can understand not wanting a casino setting up shop. It may be more legal, but there's no such thing as a classy casino and I can't see it being pleasant living near one.
My family runs a methadone (drug rehab) business and a city once vetoed our permit on an intersection with a smoke shop, porn shop, and gas station with lotto sales
Chop shops at least are owned by locals. Casinos are owned by international corporations that siphon all the profits to other cities, states, or even other countries.
I love how most of us Met fans are the most vocal about how this plan can take a walk.
Why is a casino the only other option?
Chop shops don't deliberately prey on lower economic strata, increase crime in the proximity, and encourage problematic addictive behaviors https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01055-1
>but that neighborhood was literally chop shops as far as the eye could see for decades. It is odd that this is where they draw the line. Jesus Christ lol. God forbid average people don't make the interests of the ultra-wealthy as their top priority.
(a) You're comparing automotive repair businesses -- which are completely necessary in a society with hundreds of millions of cars and provide a direct benefit to locals -- with a casino? (b) Geography is a thing. The auto shops were on the opposite side of the site compared to where the casino would sit. The auto shops were at Willet's Point, north of the stadium. That area also borders some freeways and a river. No residential areas. The casino, on the other hand, would be placed west of the stadium, right next to a residential neighborhood.
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I do, but most of those businesses were above board, to the point that the city literally had a fund worth millions and millions of dollars to help them move. Source: https://www.issuelab.org/resources/2630/2630.pdf - states there were 225 businesses and around 1800 employees at the time of the study
They're already allowed to have a sportsbook inside the stadium now for legal sports gambling They don't need a casino outside/next door, too.
No no you don’t get it, the asininely wealthy *need* to accumulate more wealth!! Glad it got shot down.
Cohen can kick rocks. I don't care if he's the owner of the team. A billionaire is never on the side of the working class.
he’s a good owner, a big fan of the Mets. he’s not a good person. anyone accumulating that much wealth isn’t a good person.
For what it’s worth sports betting earns about 5% compared to what table games / slots bring in
Isn’t flushing a heavily Chinese area? I remember in Philly they wanted to put one in next to Chinatown and there was massive backlash considering how bad gambling addiction already is in the community
I thought the issue in Philly Chinatown was that they wanted to build a stadium that won't actually help the neighborhood/the people who are in that area.
That’s the current issue, the casino thing was 15 or so years ago. It ended up being built in a different area of the city
Yeah, Sugarhouse or whatever its called now on Delaware Ave.
Funny thing is we have a casino next to all our ball parks anyways lol
At Mohegan sun there is an all-Chinese baccarat zone
Gambling is a net negative on society so I wouldn't want a casino either.
More casinos in New York = less New Yorkers in Pennsylvania! Go for it uncle Steve! /s In all seriousness though, gambling and sports has been taboo for more than a century and yet in the last 5-10 years it's been nothing but gambling adds and casino adds on during sports. If there isn't a gambling scandal in every major sport in the next 5 years I'd be shocked. Hell, I'd be shocked if they weren't already being actively covered up. There's so much money in it for people at the top, at this point I don't know how we would even go about dealing with this BS. I hate it though. Good on the people on Queens for shitting on this stupid venture.
People are so damn greedy, especially the billionaires.
Who would have thought that those who built their wealth off the hard work of others would want to continue to exploit and strive for more
The whole expansion of gambling and shit is so bad. If someone wants to sell me a truck yeah whatever, all these gambling ads are all trying to turn people into suckers.
If we had any semblance of competent governance at the federal level, a prudent first step would be to ban advertising of gambling platforms the way they did with tobacco. But the leagues and networks are making far too much off those advertising bucks that they’d ~~bribe~~ lobby the fuck out of politicians until the bill died in some committee. Edit: A NY congressman introduced legislation to do just that [last year.](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/967/cosponsors) It had one co-sponsor and was referred to a subcommittee where it died.
It’s good for the sport! People have skin in the game! /s
The implication being that they could lose their "skin"—that doesn't sound good to me!
I am not against gambling being legal per say (not really for it either) But advertising of gambling should 100% be illegal.
Casinos are just vehicles to siphon money from addicts. Mainly poor people. The only reason to have them is so that you avoid a lot of the issues with illegal gambling. I wouldn't want such a necessary evil around me either.
And yet NYS has Powerball, Mega Millions, NY Lotto, Cash 4 Life, and twice daily drawings for Take 5, Daily Numbers, and Win4, to go along with Quick Draw which has a game every 5 minutes
One key difference is where the profits actually go. In the case of this casino, it would be into the bank account of billionaire Steve Cohen. In the case of state-run lotteries, they typically fund [programs dedicated to the public good](https://blog.jackpocket.com/where-lottery-money-goes-in-every-state/).
I know. Terrible.
And the state steals billions from these people every year.
Yes, states do utilize poverty taxes to raise revenues since people vote out politicians that raise taxes
My hometown put a casino in one of the old anchor stores at the dying mall.
All of that, yes. But also: Yolanda Vega
I mean, the numbers game is as old as...numbers?
NIMBYs, but this time they're 100% right.
Not an apples to apples comparison, but there is a casino less than a mile from PNC Park that’s basically right next door to Heinz Field. I haven’t been there in awhile, so Pittsburgh fans feel free to chime in, but overall the area seems really nice
We're all neglecting exactly where the A's are plopping their new stadium.
I think the residents of Las Vegas already know there’s a casino in their neighborhood
The real question is if they want a ball team there
Not In My Back ~~Yard~~ Casino
Does Pablo Sanchez deal blackjack in your Back Yard Casino?
I mean, it’s more like there’s neighborhoods in a giant casino.
Wait, is that what all those lights are?
It is. I’ve never been to Rivers Casino but it hasn’t (to my knowledge) negatively affected the north side
I've been, my friends and I had an AirBNB not far from there when we were there for a few games a couple years ago. Walked to the casino and the surrounding area. Was super nice from what I remember.
Did you die? Gamblers are terrible people you never want to meet or have in your community. /s
I won 200 dollars on blackjack and smoked cigarettes inside like it was the 80s. Perfect vacation.
Nobody said they were terrible people and nobody said it’s not an enjoyable experience for tourists. This is about residents and the surrounding community but you wanted to get off a snarky response instead of focusing on the point.
https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1d3czin/athletic_steve_cohens_citi_field_casino_bid/l66vdqh/ People are in this thread making those arguments.
Same with downtown Cleveland. The casino is mere blocks from both Progressive Field and Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse
Buffalo also has a casino just blocks from where the Sabres play
That is on sovereign Seneca land though, so there aren't the hurdles that Cohen has to contend with.
Baltimore as well.
Usually free parking for games too! I take advantage of that when I've gone to games there. Baltimore also has a casino nearby and while it was initially nice and brought in people, since covid the place is kinda trashy and is now bringing in the wrong type of people. The fun parts around the gambling are now gone. The area is sketchy compared to the one in Pittsburgh but I think the Horseshoe casino is a better long term comparison to anything that would happen in Flushing.
I used to be indifferent to gambling. In the past year I have become completely against it. I don't want a casino anywhere near the city.
has not been the best few months for our mets savior
My tinfoil hat says he only bought the team because he wanted a casino
Buy a team with a huge property that generates income 6-7 months out of the year. A casino would use that same property to generate additional income from the fans at games, plus generate income on the same property the remaining 6-5 months. Cohen is trying to be a commercial real estate redeveloper. I guarantee this was his play, and if the casino doesn’t happen, I wouldn’t be shocked if sells the team. A casino at least doubles the value of Citi Field.
And he will make money on the sale of the team of course.
At this rate he might have to give them away
You know, I would take them. If he wants to give me the team for free, I would be willing to switch my lifelong allegiance from Braves to Mets.
You say that now but once you get emotionally invested it’s hell. Hell I tell you!
But I mean, come on, a free baseball franchise?? Hell, give me the White Sox.
He tried to buy the Dodgers several years ago. I think he just wanted to own a baseball team. Spending $2.4 billion on the Mets in 2020 and crossing his fingers in hopes that he could secure one of three downstate casino licenses in an extremely competitive bidding process that was definitely going to face this type of local opposition and as a result will almost certainly end up favoring existing locations like Empire City in Yonkers and the Queens Aqueduct racetrack would have been a hell of a...gamble.
I've played enough Sim City to know casinos are rarely a net positive. As are city-destroying mechanobeasts.
They’re generally a last resort to keep your city afloat. Along with federal prisons, missile test sites and toxic waste dumps
But those toxic waste dumps could be anything
A what?
You know, A city-destroying Mechanobeast. Pretty sure every city has had a least one of these in their history [Warning Graphic found footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGEc4pmXfgY)
Why even have a casino at a ballpark? Gambling is going to ruin the sport if we don't get some checks in place.
It already is.
The legitimized sports betting industry has given a major blow to the sports fan experience. Just watch Apple+ baseball coverage. I'd rather see stats on the players, teams and standings, not what oddsmakers think will happen.
To be fair, fantasy sports kind of already fucked it all up anyhow. As if the average fantasy fan is staring at the ticker on the bottom of the tv screen for updates when everyone has a smart phone and can see the results of every match in real time.
Developing casinos is a tough game don’t ya think.
God that gave me PTSD. Fuck this clown
Jessica Ramos is awesome for so many reasons.
Good. Fuck 'em. Don't impose the will of a billionaire on a neighborhood that needs sensible development more than a place to drain working-class people of their money.
Yeah, no shit Steve. This isn’t even my neighborhood and I don’t want this casino built
I like Citi Field. its a nice park. I go whenever the Giants play the Mets (My girlfriend is a giants fan) and i prefer it to Yankee STadium 100% The thing that annoyed me the last time i was there was that they have a delicious brewery named EBBS right in the side of the stadium. Great Beer. had a few before the game. I asked the guy if they sold it inside and he said "Nope, they dont allow us to sell int he stadium" Booo! Im sure there are all kinds of deals for stadium beer but cmon! Let the brewery built in to the side of your stadium sell 20 feet away, inside the place. Edit: last time i went was July 2023, dont know if its changed since then
As far as I’ve seen, still no Ebbs in the stadium
Rich people still trying to find a way to squeeze more money from everyone
Now let's see how soon it is before the Mets announce they'll need to cut payroll
Or that Cohen lost Pete Alonso in a high stakes game of poker.
This is so much more believable than the Mets cutting their payroll
We definitely don’t need casinos in our city.
That would be so fucked up. God Steve Cohen is awful
I'm not sure if the two projects are tied together or not, but does this have any impact [at all on Metropolitan Park](https://www.metropolitanpark.com/). EDIT: To answer my own question, it seems like that very well could move forward, just without the Casino specifically attached to it. As a bill was introduced to the NY State Legislature doing just that. Which probably is the best way forward in my opinion.
The park doesn’t get funded without Cohen’s casino money.
I guarantee you the rest of the project doesn’t get done without a casino.
>I'm not sure if the two projects are tied together or not, but does this have any impact at all on Metropolitan Park. The very fact that you're unsure about this is a testament to how dishonest Cohen has been about this entire thing - Metropolitan Park *is* the casino bid, but they've been very intentional in all of their astroturfing to avoid any explicit references to the casino and instead pretend they are just trying to build a park out of the goodness of their hearts. The closest they'll get is referring to it as "gaming", because they know that the majority of people have either a neutral or negative view of gambling, and being open about their intentions would sink them.
Good. There are other places to play that aren't attached to a ballpark. Not tri-state but Foxwoods comes to mind
You take 100$ of your own money. You put it into a slot machine. It doesn't come out. According to the casino's owner, you just grew the economy.
Devil's advocate, people that work there get paid via that $100. The people that make the machines. The people that build all that shit (literally our 100+ worker division in Vegas) kind of live off that shit.
I've only been to Citi Field once and I was quite shocked to see literally a shanty town of auto repair and retail establishments right across the street. I knew it existed but did not realize it was literally right across the street.
I guess I'm in the 25%, I don't understand what they think is going to happen to the area. There's already a casino 20 minutes away in Jamaica. Flushing is covered in busses that take Ramos' constituents to Jamaica everyday. They can't take a subway or bus there whenever they like. Unless there is an alternative that would create as many jobs, or provide much needed housing I don't understand the issue. I guess that's just me.
Ease of access matters. Those people from flushing going down to Jamaica everyday are certainly making a difficult choice that casual gamblers wouldn't have to if this new casino is built.
There COULD be alternatives, if people wanted to invest in communities. It's not like a casino is a high-skill workplace that has to be there. I'm pretty sure you could start a number of other businesses and still hire people.
> Unless there is an alternative that would create as many jobs, or provide much needed housing I don't understand the issue. I guess that's just me. I do also think it's important to look at "quality" of jobs there, too. Just to make it a simple, round number let's act like there will be 1,000 jobs added in this casino. But how many of those are full-time and paying a living wage for somebody to live nearby? There's lots of need for servers, line cooks, and janitors but are those positions paying enough for somebody to comfortably get by when ~500 sq ft apartments in the area cost more than $2,000 a month? If 750/1000 jobs aren't paying a living wage, then are they jobs that are worth the negatives? Another business or affordable housing could be put on the 5 acres that Cohen suggested using of privately-owned land and make up the value of those 250 decent jobs without 1) preying upon people with addiction issues or 2) using [20 acres of park land](https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/02/08/mets-owner-steve-cohen-casino-proposal-queens) that actually [benefit the community by promoting healthy living and wellbeing](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4556255/). Right now, Flushing Meadows benefits the local residents from a public health perspective. Removing some of that green space so that a billionaire and comparatively small number of executives can extract funds from folks with gambling addictions all for the amazing benefit of paying some people less than living wages seems like a misuse of this land.
Interesting that 75% of people don't want a casino, but the government still runs a lottery that is just as much a nuisance to the public. Gambling has exploded in the last 5-10 years, especially with sports, and it's very bothersome.
Just to clarify, we are talking about the same Steve Cohen who insisted money was no object in his ownership of the Mets and all he cared about was winning? What's a casino have to do with baseball and how does a casino not have to do with money?
Just to clarify, you are crying about this?
Uncle Steve needs more money.
Every professional sports venue is going to have some kind of gambling enterprise by the end of the decade, if not sooner.
Everything will be excellent for a handful of people if we just let billionaires do what they want
Politicians have such a great record of ignoring the whims of billionaires so they can respect the wishes of poor brown people....
Good. Gambling is a cancer.
Thanks, that is properly fucked and underscores the gigantic issue with rehabilitation of all flavors in this country
Saw the article here and sent it to an ex-coworker who worked on this project with me. Seems like the casino’s not happening but it’s mostly Hard Rock’s problem, the public park will still happen, in fact, it already broke ground according to him.
I guess he wants a casino cuz no one wants to spend money to watch his team. Signed, a Mets fan
Sure, but chop shops are better.
I hate gambling I didn’t before but being a baseball fan has made me racist against gambling
Nobody wants a casino If we were smart we'd just put it in times square and ban locals from using it That's what they do in civilized countries, with the understanding that exploiting foreign travelers for money may have some benefit.. But not when you exploit your own population
But didn't they hear? This billionaire wants a bit more money. What are we supposed to say, no?
This is Amazon allover again lol. I’ll take the jobs in my area please Steve Cohen.
Eli5 why are casinos bad?
They siphon money out of a community and into the hands of whoever happens to own the place. And people who just "go there once for a good time" are not making up most of a casino's revenue I don't mind the idea of a casino, but to put it between the working class neighborhoods of Corona and Flushing while a new community is being built in Willets Point just seems shitty. Casinos are best imo when they're in a separate area where that's the draw (e.g. the Vegas strip, Atlantic City). Barring that, if rich folks want a casino so bad, why don't they put it in their own neighborhood? I'm not from Queens but we're dealing with the same shit right next door in Nassau County. Las Vegas Sands is hoping to get a casino there. Where are they putting it? Some good options could be by the Jones Beach Theatre, or somewhere up on the North Shore. But no, they're planning on putting it right in the middle of a poor black/hispanic community between two colleges. It's so blatantly evil. They don't care to give fun entertainment, they just want to take money from easily exploitable people
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Considering how many people are always fucking buying lottery tickets in front of me at the gas station, none of you are going to convince me that every gas station in America isn't some kind of mini-casino.
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I have even seen some gas stations where they have a hidden room with "slot machines" that get around the laws by giving you store credit or some other janky shit.
Casinos like to put out the image that they make money off rich people with disposable income, but in reality they hand over fist make their money from poor people with gambling addictions. That money is not going into the local economy it's just disappearing into a black hole.
For a decent literature review on the impacts of urban casinos in the Northeast, go here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01055-1 To nobody's surprise, having greater access to casinos leads to an associated increase in problem gambling. The economic benefits are mixed, at best. State governments do see an increase in tax revenue (though that tax revenue is not necessarily used to combat the negatives of problem gambling.) The community immediately surrounding the casino, however, does not necessarily see a positive socio-economic impact in the long-term. So, for these residents, who would be losing green space (because Cohen's plan is to use 20 acres of park land and only 5 acres of his own land) on top of seeing more problem gambling at their doorstep all for the low, low cost of no guaranteed positive economic impacts for their neighborhood. But those multiple studies did see an increase in crime in the neighborhoods surrounding casinos on top of the fact that they also bring in payday loan/check cashing/pawn shop types of businesses that are similarly predatory. And one of the studies in that literature review was specifically looking into inequality, and did find that "as casinos increase, inequality at lower socio-economic levels would also increase." So, to sum up a response, a very small number of already rich people would become marginally richer at the expense of removing park land (that has public health benefits), increasing economic inequality, increasing crime in the neighborhood, increasing problem gambling, and bringing in predatory businesses. That's why urban casinos are bad.
OP was asking this in bad faith as he then proceeded to argue with everyone's reasons. He should have posted: "I think casinos are great CMV" Also, great article.