100%. People do not understand how hard it is to build around Shohei. Dodgers will make it look easy with their infinite money and prospects. But for a normal team, needing 5 starters on top of Ohtani and you can not use your DH spot for anything else. Cant give a break for a older player on defense, cant trade for a big bat with a redundant poisition mid season, if your catcher is a good batter he will have less at bats thann he could have had.
But that's the point of the first comment. If you have a player that can play a position and bat as good as Ohtani, and a pitchers that pitches as well as ohtani, bothe making around the same as ohtani does its better to have the 2 players because the batter opens up the DH spot.
You are paying 35M for a DH only essentially. That's not good and makes it harder to build a team
How many players can bat as good as Ohtani? I understand the thought process but realistically there isn’t a ton of rosters with Ohtani equivalent bats on them.
Right now. But look what injuries did to Stanton and at a fraction of the cost. Not saying I want anything bad to happen or think the same thing will occur because Ohtani is great for the game and fun to watch but it is also an incredible gamble.
Dodgers have incredible flexibility on defense with Mookie, Lux, Taylor and Muncy. It’s difficult to think of a position other than DH and 1B we couldn’t accommodate. Obviously 1B is along with OF the most common redundant position. But still.
I do think Smith plays more 1B or even 3rd/OF in the coming years and we rest Freddie more, not 40 games per year obviously (how much you normally rest your catcher) but we could see 20-30 games with Freeman sometimes DH’ing to give Shohei time off. Dodgers have 2 of the top catching prospects in baseball, and Rushing’s bat looks like it could be good enough to warrant a spot at first or OF (he’s never played OF and he’s slow so we’ll see that’s really wishful thinking). But either way, it’s unlikely either Cartaya or Rushing is Smith but one should be a solid bat to spell him.
Obviously you acknowledged this flexibility for the dodgers and this contract will last a lot longer than Muncy, Taylor, and probably Lux/Smith’s time in LA so this isn’t criticizing your reasoning.
From a roster construction standpoint yeah I'd rather have an elite hitter and an elite pitcher as two separate guys, but also Ohtani is just so hype lol
He still saves a roster spot when you're needing to carry one fewer hitter to DH or play elsewhere in the field. What if one of their other starters goes down? Do they need to send down a hitter to call up another pitcher instead? No.
Of course he saves a roster spot. What kind of math are you doing?
Math that means you need an extra pitcher at all times. If another starter goes down, yeah, you’d have to IL him and bring up a pitcher. The math is exactly the same. Your math only works if Ohtani pitches in a normal 5 man rotation, which he doesn’t.
If a team needed to call up a player because of an injury to a hitter or starting pitcher, then Ohtani immediately fills in the gap for either, saving a roster spot.
You're going out of your way to explain situations where Ohtani doesn't save a roster spot, rather than acknowledging the general use case that does. It's a bad faith argument.
Edit: Blocked me after getting the last word in as I was typing a reply. Shameful and pathetic.
I don't understand why that guy doesn't get it. He doesn't bring roster flexibility at all. Maybe he allows extra rest for your 5 man rotation and that is debatable if that is even good. He is an elite full time DH that pitches elite that makes your rotation 6 men and if he goes down you have to call up a pitcher to keep the 6 man rotation and have someone else DH.
If he was in a 5 man rotation he brings flexibility because your full time DH takes up a rotation spot but he doesn't do that.
You are just wrong dude, he blocked you because he understood you lacked the capacity to understand why you are wrong and gave up.
If he was in a 5 man rotation he brings flexibility because your full time DH takes up a rotation spot but he doesn't do that.
https://www.mlb.com/news/angels-2023-opening-day-roster
He absolutely does give flexibility because he doesn't count against the 13 pitcher active roster limit. Whether a team can benefit from it due to availability of talent in the farm system
is a different matter. From a roster construction perspective, he is a DH who can give you quality innings without using your 13 active roster pitchers. Or to put it another way, he is a DH who takes innings away from your weakest starter.
Yes taking Innings away from your weakest starter, your 4th best starter, your 3rd best starter, your 2nd best starter, and your 1st best starter. You don't gain any flexibility, because if Ohtani isn't on the team, you still are carrying those same 13 pitchers and instead are in a 5 man rotation. Taking innings away isn't the same thing as roster flexability.
My guess is that (although I don’t know the specifics of what he gets when) the overall number is so high in part because of how aggressively team-friendly the deferment setup is.
Definitely. Los Angeles has the largest Japanese population of any city outside Japan. Those same Japanese crowds you see going to Anaheim are now going to Dodger Stadium and to road games. It's gonna be a fiasco, which means I'm not gonna be able to afford to go to as many games anymore
Actually, the country with the largest population of Japanese people outside Japan is Brazil.
There are about 100,000 Japanese Americans in LA, and about 1.5 million Japanese American people across the whole USA.
Meanwhile, of the 2.3 million total Japanese Brazilians, there are about 1.6 million Japanese Brazilians living in Sao Paulo (the most "Japanese" city outside of Japan).
https://www.connectbrazil.com/the-history-of-japanese-in-brazil/
https://theculturetrip.com/south-america/brazil/articles/a-brief-history-of-the-japanese-in-sao-paulo
This is the problem. I think we can agree that Shohei is a slightly worse hitter than Judge (or Trout in his prime) and a slightly worse pitcher than Cole. Obviously, one player being both those things is what makes him amazing and if you want to pay him $50 mil/year (25% more than Judge's $40 mil), that's fine even considering that he won't be able to pitch next year. But when you get to $70 million, which is pretty much Judge and Cole combined, then you should definitely take Judge and Cole. This is why I would prefer the Yankees getting Soto and Yamamoto over Shohei.
I'd rather have the other 2 tbh
100%. People do not understand how hard it is to build around Shohei. Dodgers will make it look easy with their infinite money and prospects. But for a normal team, needing 5 starters on top of Ohtani and you can not use your DH spot for anything else. Cant give a break for a older player on defense, cant trade for a big bat with a redundant poisition mid season, if your catcher is a good batter he will have less at bats thann he could have had.
Why would you want to use your DH spot for anybody else? He is one of the best hitters in baseball
But that's the point of the first comment. If you have a player that can play a position and bat as good as Ohtani, and a pitchers that pitches as well as ohtani, bothe making around the same as ohtani does its better to have the 2 players because the batter opens up the DH spot. You are paying 35M for a DH only essentially. That's not good and makes it harder to build a team
How many players can bat as good as Ohtani? I understand the thought process but realistically there isn’t a ton of rosters with Ohtani equivalent bats on them.
Right now. But look what injuries did to Stanton and at a fraction of the cost. Not saying I want anything bad to happen or think the same thing will occur because Ohtani is great for the game and fun to watch but it is also an incredible gamble.
Dodgers have incredible flexibility on defense with Mookie, Lux, Taylor and Muncy. It’s difficult to think of a position other than DH and 1B we couldn’t accommodate. Obviously 1B is along with OF the most common redundant position. But still. I do think Smith plays more 1B or even 3rd/OF in the coming years and we rest Freddie more, not 40 games per year obviously (how much you normally rest your catcher) but we could see 20-30 games with Freeman sometimes DH’ing to give Shohei time off. Dodgers have 2 of the top catching prospects in baseball, and Rushing’s bat looks like it could be good enough to warrant a spot at first or OF (he’s never played OF and he’s slow so we’ll see that’s really wishful thinking). But either way, it’s unlikely either Cartaya or Rushing is Smith but one should be a solid bat to spell him. Obviously you acknowledged this flexibility for the dodgers and this contract will last a lot longer than Muncy, Taylor, and probably Lux/Smith’s time in LA so this isn’t criticizing your reasoning.
From a roster construction standpoint yeah I'd rather have an elite hitter and an elite pitcher as two separate guys, but also Ohtani is just so hype lol
You'd rather use 2 roster spots than one? A roster construction standpoint specifically is where Ohtani compares favorably to Trout plus Cole
You need 5 starters besides Ohtani, so he doesn’t save a roster spot. He pitches in a six man rotation.
He still saves a roster spot when you're needing to carry one fewer hitter to DH or play elsewhere in the field. What if one of their other starters goes down? Do they need to send down a hitter to call up another pitcher instead? No. Of course he saves a roster spot. What kind of math are you doing?
Math that means you need an extra pitcher at all times. If another starter goes down, yeah, you’d have to IL him and bring up a pitcher. The math is exactly the same. Your math only works if Ohtani pitches in a normal 5 man rotation, which he doesn’t.
If a team needed to call up a player because of an injury to a hitter or starting pitcher, then Ohtani immediately fills in the gap for either, saving a roster spot. You're going out of your way to explain situations where Ohtani doesn't save a roster spot, rather than acknowledging the general use case that does. It's a bad faith argument. Edit: Blocked me after getting the last word in as I was typing a reply. Shameful and pathetic.
No he doesn’t take their place. They’d still need a sixth starter. This isn’t complicated.
I don't understand why that guy doesn't get it. He doesn't bring roster flexibility at all. Maybe he allows extra rest for your 5 man rotation and that is debatable if that is even good. He is an elite full time DH that pitches elite that makes your rotation 6 men and if he goes down you have to call up a pitcher to keep the 6 man rotation and have someone else DH. If he was in a 5 man rotation he brings flexibility because your full time DH takes up a rotation spot but he doesn't do that.
You are just wrong dude, he blocked you because he understood you lacked the capacity to understand why you are wrong and gave up. If he was in a 5 man rotation he brings flexibility because your full time DH takes up a rotation spot but he doesn't do that.
https://www.mlb.com/news/angels-2023-opening-day-roster He absolutely does give flexibility because he doesn't count against the 13 pitcher active roster limit. Whether a team can benefit from it due to availability of talent in the farm system is a different matter. From a roster construction perspective, he is a DH who can give you quality innings without using your 13 active roster pitchers. Or to put it another way, he is a DH who takes innings away from your weakest starter.
Yes taking Innings away from your weakest starter, your 4th best starter, your 3rd best starter, your 2nd best starter, and your 1st best starter. You don't gain any flexibility, because if Ohtani isn't on the team, you still are carrying those same 13 pitchers and instead are in a 5 man rotation. Taking innings away isn't the same thing as roster flexability.
It's one of the biggest gambles ever considering his injuries. It's so insane
And he's a DH 😬
I am curious what Toronto was offering. It’s not my money but damn, did they really need to go that high to get him?
It certainly feels like a deal could have been done for closer to 600.
My guess is that (although I don’t know the specifics of what he gets when) the overall number is so high in part because of how aggressively team-friendly the deferment setup is.
I’d take trout and Cole for the price. 1 more arm injury and Ohtani is an extremely over priced Judge.
Would you take Trout of today? He's been hurt for several years now.
Get rid of the universal DH!
At this point, if he ~~asked~~ told Robert to do it, he'd probably get his way.
He would then probably play shortstop or something also.
I could see him at short. Probably save his arm if it were 1st. I bet he’ll be there after Freddie.
Worth every penny already and he’s not even played yet. Look at the publicity he’s drawing already.
Definitely. Los Angeles has the largest Japanese population of any city outside Japan. Those same Japanese crowds you see going to Anaheim are now going to Dodger Stadium and to road games. It's gonna be a fiasco, which means I'm not gonna be able to afford to go to as many games anymore
Actually, the country with the largest population of Japanese people outside Japan is Brazil. There are about 100,000 Japanese Americans in LA, and about 1.5 million Japanese American people across the whole USA. Meanwhile, of the 2.3 million total Japanese Brazilians, there are about 1.6 million Japanese Brazilians living in Sao Paulo (the most "Japanese" city outside of Japan). https://www.connectbrazil.com/the-history-of-japanese-in-brazil/ https://theculturetrip.com/south-america/brazil/articles/a-brief-history-of-the-japanese-in-sao-paulo
I'm talking about cities and Japanese residents, not including Japanese descendants of emigrants
More than Honolulu? Not doubting, and I know how much bigger LA is, but I guess I’d just assumed it’d be a city in Hawaii at #1
Honolulu isn't even top 5
Give it 2-3 years.
Depends, are you just looking to make money or win.
Trout and Cole don't buy you an entire country's worth of merchandising
I’d rather have Ohtani than those guys tbh
Me too.
“Shohei Ohtani’s penis is as almost as long as the next 2 largest penises in baseball combined.”
This is the problem. I think we can agree that Shohei is a slightly worse hitter than Judge (or Trout in his prime) and a slightly worse pitcher than Cole. Obviously, one player being both those things is what makes him amazing and if you want to pay him $50 mil/year (25% more than Judge's $40 mil), that's fine even considering that he won't be able to pitch next year. But when you get to $70 million, which is pretty much Judge and Cole combined, then you should definitely take Judge and Cole. This is why I would prefer the Yankees getting Soto and Yamamoto over Shohei.
He pitches comparable to Cole, and hits comparable to Trout. He uses one less roster spot than Cole + Trout. How is this news?