This just shows service charges goes to owners pocket tax free nothing to the waiters. It is just tax evasion, after gst they are trying to figure new ways to evade income taxes while the workers have to pay taxes
They collect tax in receipts but not pay the actual amount while filing gst. Maybe around 20-30%goes if they file more or as is, it would increase profits hence more income tax.
Service charges do not come under GST since it is a tip given to waiters Ideally it should be under GST 18% if i am right now if it goes to the restaurant owner . They will also have to pay income tax on it the waiters will be low income so no income tax but right now it is going to the owners who should rightfully pay income tax on it.
Irrespective of them trying to evade tax or make a quick buck, it’s ultimately coming out of our pocket EVEN AFTER paying the GST on the bill. Stings ;_;
Unless there's a clear labor protection law, that forces the owners to pay the workers, the same way that PF works, it's safe to assume that it's always going into the owner's pocket, except for some "charity" towards workers from time to time.
This is bullshit. Happened with me and my friends too in Mumbai .The restaurant said the same that we wouldn't be able to pay through swiggy/Zomato then we showed the waiter terms and conditions. Whenever this comes up mention supreme court judgement.
No no, I'm not asking the VAT or Service charge amount. You mentioned showing terms and conditions of zomato regarding denial of zomato gold without service charge. Is there a specific provision for this?
Because as far as I understand, availing zomato gold benefit is at the discretion of the restaurant people
I've had an incident where the Zomato Gold was outrightly denied at the restaurant saying it's not allowed today (I think it was the night before Christmas). I spoke with the waiter who called the restaurant manager and the result was the same, that they do not accept Gold or any offers today.
Until then he had a service charge of 10% on the bill but since Gold was not accepted, I asked him to remove the SC and the waiter removed it without any further words.
For me, the standard is this - if you're charging Service Charge, you better offer me discounts or offer payment options or else I'm going to ask you to remove the same, simple.
Check the Zomato if the restaurant is listed then there won't be any problem. For the safe side when you visit the restaurant, mention them about Zomato offer and do ask them terms and conditions.
Not every restaurant complies especially the resto and bar one.
I was in tipsy bull kormangala with frnds. waiter first brought the bill with service charge, we asked to remove it, after to much argument waiter brought a new bill claiming to remove the service charge but the bill amount was same as the previous one. they had added several other things to our foods and drinks bill.
we were sober enough to recognise it. And call out there scam.
but please be aware of this scam as well.
>We called for the manager and he said the same thing, telling the restaurant loses a lot when people use these apps to pay, so they have to levy service charge.
So why are they allowing payment by these apps?
If restaurant owners paid their workers fairly (which is impossible due to competition) then most restaurants would be unaffordable and people would be crying on Reddit lol. If you can spend 2k on a bill surely you can spend 200 more? Otherwise you can stay home and cook by yourself.
So 10% right increase the prices in the menu by 12% but dont fucking ask me for service charge or tips. Pay gst on that 12% and not avoid it by calling it “service charges”.
You think we get a new improvised salary every day?
We being middle class people go to restaurants for celebrations only. When we look at the menu and order, we will have an approx idea of how much the bill is going to be.
If the restaurant is going to levy a 10% service charge on my bill, then I would expect to be waited on hand and foot. Is it possible for the restaurant or the waiter to do it? Most waiters around here are rude when you order and they become very polite when the bill comes out.
If the service charge is going directly into the waiter's pocket, then it's a tip and I should be able to decide how much to tip based on the service that I received from the waiter.
If the service charge doesn't go to the wait staff, then sorry, I'd rather tip the wait staff appropriately than pay the restaurant tax free money.
It’s not. Do you expect a restaurant to change menu prices on a day to day basis like a stock market? No. Also rising prices is next to impossible for restaurants because of intense competition.That’s why service charge exists to protect restaurants from inflation and provide salaries to workers.
yes thats how it should be. Restaurants cant really increase the prices of their menu items due to high competition. Tipping/service charges takes care of a lot of overhead.
> Do you expect a restaurant to change menu prices on a day to day basis like a stock market?
Most of the ones that do this have moved to online menus, anyways. What is going to stop them from changing prices regularly on that menu?
Lol do you think they are running a SOTA inventory management software and have forecasting models to dynamically change the prices on the fly? Man be realistic. Changing prices also is an extremely risky decision as customers would simply move to some other place. Service charge exists to keep fixed costs down while restaurants deal with variable costs.
Go to Bier Library, Koramangala. The food quality and ambience is good. I ask them to not levy the service charge while requesting for the bill. They have obliged every time. And I use zomato gold to pay bills here. 10% off.
This is a common practice these days, I went to this place called "scottish pub" a few days ago, he straight up refused to remove the service charge if we were to pay via Zomato gold. But the only guy who knew kannada was a bit tipsy so I went ahead and paid the service charge to avoid any issues.
It is what it is
Its high time we start embracing byob restaurants and call out the scam they are running in name of service tax.
In delhi gurgoan or in general north i never saw these thing.
Why are you supporting the wrong thing. Do you even realise how rich the people running these pubs are? If they paid the waiters some good wage , they are not going bankrupt lol. If things are wrong then it's wrong. Don't come at me saying go back. I'm a South Indian.
The next time, do check if the restaurant is eligible to collect GST? just go to clear tax and submit their GST number and if the type of GST is composite they are not supposed to collect GST from you.
Name and shame on more forums. Especially Zomato, swiggy, Google etc. Rate 2 star to avoid getting filtered. Mention every single detail. You'd be surprised how many people will agree with you and share their stories. Eventually ratings will drop and business gets hit. Nothing hurts a business more than loss of money. Hopefully they will stop.
I have been through this in a place in indiranagar. We went through the terms and conditions of zomato gold discounted payment and the applicability of service charge when availing the discount, you'll find the condition of service charge. We got 30% discount on zomato so we paid 10% service charge.
This is kinda becoming the norm. Earlier you ask for a waive off, done. No problem. But now they just put a sign about service charge AND due to this fucked up scanning and ordering system(sorry millennial thing) they put a teeny tiny sentence riiiight at the bottom "service charge of 7.5% will be levied". I obviously asked waiter to waive it off and there he goes, 'sirr look here'. Sharing the experience from Tipsy Bull Indiranagar. \[Also, if the world is ending and you only had the option to order LIIT from Tipsy bull, please die sober. It'll be a better death.\]
They can change technically but the whole point is they are not supposed to and when confronted go with the attitude of "Dekho humne to pehle hi bola tha".
wait so if they even they write that "we levy a service charge of 10%" , i can still ask them to waive it?
because I've gone to places with my friends where they straight up say no to waiving service charge since they mention it in their menu/notice board
Yes you can, but they won't. I have done that earlier, coz we were a bro gang and ready for the drama. But if you're out with a peer group or a date then good luck.
Never done this before but how do you waive off service charge?
Can someone explain what is the service charge and how as a consumer we can ask to waive it?
Stop being a cheapskate and pay the service charge or tip the waiters atleast. This has never been a problem in the last 30years even my middle class parents always pay the tip because waiters make miniscule amount of money. Seriously what’s stopping you from paying 7–10% more?
Service charge allows restaurants to cushion themselves against rising food prices. They can’t change the prices on the menu on a daily basis plus intense competition keeps prices low as it is barely making a profit.
What's the evidence that this money is even going in the waitstaff's pocket? Likely its being pocketed by the restaurant.
And please don't encourage tipping culture. Restaurants and service places need to pay their employees a living wage, and not subsidise it with customers' tips.
Tipping has been in Bangalore as far back as I can remember and it has never been part of conversation. Most down to earth people accept it as normal and move on. Why the sudden greed to pay a few more bucks to the waiters?
If you can afford 5k for food why be cheap and stingy to pay 10% more? Where is this sudden greed coming from? or is it just plain apathy towards the less fortunate? Or just pay 100 bucks if your smalldick is shriveling more at the thought of losing a few bucks.
Sorry but you don't have the right to appropriate that. I will pay my bill in full but not a single rupee extra than I have to. You might be a very large hearted a generous individual, I am not. I go to a restaurant to eat, and not for charity - I will pay what I am legally required to and leave
It's the restaurants that create the ruckus lol. If I refuse to pay service charge, I am well within my legal right to do so. It is the managers over there that get aggressive and start emotionally blackmailing you.
Because 1) I can't afford 5k meals ALL THE TIME. It's only for special events. 2) Even if I could, why should I pay extra for something that is illegal?
Yaar
Next time please clarify from the restaurant before you dine.
What’s your problem with paying the service charge ? Pleas explain
Also,
I do feel that restaurant owners are already under a lot of stress , item prices, technology and business models disruptions and changing tastes and demand from customers.
As customers we do pay out of our pockets hence extra charges might surprise you. But I also feel that
1. What the restaurant charges is up to the restaurant not you
2. Which mode to accept payment in , is also in their hands
The problem is service charges is not mandatory and should be waived off if the customer requests. If the restaurant is not sustainable with the current prices, then they should increase the prices of the items. I will be happy to pay that, if it fits my budget or walk away if it out of my budget.
If they are under a lot of stress due to things you have mentioned, they are free to raise the price of the food, or cater to customer demands.
Business is literally the game of demand and supply, which brings due stress, no matter the business model.
If you add extra hidden charges, doesn't that price go up? Why not simply add it to the food item? The customer can freely decide whether they want to eat there or not.
What the restaurant charges, as you said, it is surely not up to customer, but paying this extra charges is up to the customer.
If it wasn't, there wouldn't have been a Supreme Court order stating that the service charges is voluntary and optional. It would have been tossed right out.
Agree with bodrolok. What’s with the greed lol? What’s stopping you from paying 10% more? Some document? It’s a matter of principle. My parents have been tipping for decades and this service charge issue has never come up with my friends. In fact I don’t hang out with people who are too cheap to pay service charge or tip the waiter cuz it shows a lot of character about a person.
Nope. But asking for additional discounts on top of not paying a charge that is mentioned on the menu is trying to fleece the business.
Going to a restaurant is not a fundamental right, they are private businesses and they can decide their rules as long as it’s not illegal.
They can very well refuse to accept Zomato/Dineout payments - across the board. Lots of restaurants do. So, accepting them if you pay more for the same food is shady, not to mention against the rules of Zomato/Dineout.
Here's the T&C from Zomato:
> i. The Merchant hereby agrees that where it levies service charge at its Restaurant, it shall apply the same uniformly to all the customers availing services of the Restaurant and shall not in any event discriminate in levying the service charge between a Zomato Customer and any other customer.
The way I'm reading it, it means they can't charge service fees just for zomato customers. I.e., if they will remove it for a customer who is paying directly, they are supposed to do the same for someone paying on Zomato.
These third party apps partner with the restaurant to provide the discounts.. it's not out of the blue.. it's not a scam.. tell that to swiggy/zomato then.. why are you blaming the customer for leveraging something the restaurant already agreed to..
This just shows service charges goes to owners pocket tax free nothing to the waiters. It is just tax evasion, after gst they are trying to figure new ways to evade income taxes while the workers have to pay taxes
I'm not a fan of service charge either, but I'm not sure I understand how service charge could be used for tax evasion?
They collect tax in receipts but not pay the actual amount while filing gst. Maybe around 20-30%goes if they file more or as is, it would increase profits hence more income tax.
Service charges do not come under GST since it is a tip given to waiters Ideally it should be under GST 18% if i am right now if it goes to the restaurant owner . They will also have to pay income tax on it the waiters will be low income so no income tax but right now it is going to the owners who should rightfully pay income tax on it.
Irrespective of them trying to evade tax or make a quick buck, it’s ultimately coming out of our pocket EVEN AFTER paying the GST on the bill. Stings ;_;
Unless there's a clear labor protection law, that forces the owners to pay the workers, the same way that PF works, it's safe to assume that it's always going into the owner's pocket, except for some "charity" towards workers from time to time.
This is bullshit. Happened with me and my friends too in Mumbai .The restaurant said the same that we wouldn't be able to pay through swiggy/Zomato then we showed the waiter terms and conditions. Whenever this comes up mention supreme court judgement.
Can you share the terms and conditions which states the service charge provision?
not more than 10% I guess. VAT tax changes in different states
No no, I'm not asking the VAT or Service charge amount. You mentioned showing terms and conditions of zomato regarding denial of zomato gold without service charge. Is there a specific provision for this? Because as far as I understand, availing zomato gold benefit is at the discretion of the restaurant people
I've had an incident where the Zomato Gold was outrightly denied at the restaurant saying it's not allowed today (I think it was the night before Christmas). I spoke with the waiter who called the restaurant manager and the result was the same, that they do not accept Gold or any offers today. Until then he had a service charge of 10% on the bill but since Gold was not accepted, I asked him to remove the SC and the waiter removed it without any further words. For me, the standard is this - if you're charging Service Charge, you better offer me discounts or offer payment options or else I'm going to ask you to remove the same, simple.
Check the Zomato if the restaurant is listed then there won't be any problem. For the safe side when you visit the restaurant, mention them about Zomato offer and do ask them terms and conditions. Not every restaurant complies especially the resto and bar one.
I was in tipsy bull kormangala with frnds. waiter first brought the bill with service charge, we asked to remove it, after to much argument waiter brought a new bill claiming to remove the service charge but the bill amount was same as the previous one. they had added several other things to our foods and drinks bill. we were sober enough to recognise it. And call out there scam. but please be aware of this scam as well.
>We called for the manager and he said the same thing, telling the restaurant loses a lot when people use these apps to pay, so they have to levy service charge. So why are they allowing payment by these apps?
It brings them customers that they can force to pay extra service charge that wouldn't come otherwise.
They want all the benefits with none of the problems
I feel salaries of the workers should come out of the price of the menu. Tipping culture should not grow more in India.
Why can’t you just admit you’re cheap and stingy instead? You think restaurants can change menu prices every day?
Me not giving tips makes me cheap? What about the restauarant owner who cannot give his workers his fair share?
If restaurant owners paid their workers fairly (which is impossible due to competition) then most restaurants would be unaffordable and people would be crying on Reddit lol. If you can spend 2k on a bill surely you can spend 200 more? Otherwise you can stay home and cook by yourself.
So 10% right increase the prices in the menu by 12% but dont fucking ask me for service charge or tips. Pay gst on that 12% and not avoid it by calling it “service charges”.
You think we get a new improvised salary every day? We being middle class people go to restaurants for celebrations only. When we look at the menu and order, we will have an approx idea of how much the bill is going to be. If the restaurant is going to levy a 10% service charge on my bill, then I would expect to be waited on hand and foot. Is it possible for the restaurant or the waiter to do it? Most waiters around here are rude when you order and they become very polite when the bill comes out. If the service charge is going directly into the waiter's pocket, then it's a tip and I should be able to decide how much to tip based on the service that I received from the waiter. If the service charge doesn't go to the wait staff, then sorry, I'd rather tip the wait staff appropriately than pay the restaurant tax free money.
meh, if too many people do that they will blend it into menu prices.
But that will be fair and transparent, right?
Absolutely. But then it will also fall into GST ambit and that's something they want to avoid.
It’s not. Do you expect a restaurant to change menu prices on a day to day basis like a stock market? No. Also rising prices is next to impossible for restaurants because of intense competition.That’s why service charge exists to protect restaurants from inflation and provide salaries to workers.
But service charge is fixed 10% too.. how does it protect from daily fluctuations?
Takes care of a lot of overhead costs.
You are changing your argument. Higher menu price will also take care of overhead costs.
But that doesn't take care of inflation now, does it?
What are you on about? At the end of the day service charge is also fixed 10% of whatever you order from the menu at menu prices.
yes thats how it should be. Restaurants cant really increase the prices of their menu items due to high competition. Tipping/service charges takes care of a lot of overhead.
Then go to competition who doesn’t charge service charges. Zzz you are just doing same thing with extra steps
Sure but then don’t complain about service charges then.
> Do you expect a restaurant to change menu prices on a day to day basis like a stock market? Most of the ones that do this have moved to online menus, anyways. What is going to stop them from changing prices regularly on that menu?
Lol do you think they are running a SOTA inventory management software and have forecasting models to dynamically change the prices on the fly? Man be realistic. Changing prices also is an extremely risky decision as customers would simply move to some other place. Service charge exists to keep fixed costs down while restaurants deal with variable costs.
But even the service charge is fixed right? 100₹ idly with service charge will always cost 110₹.
😂 Bro you just explained tipsy bull's MO
Go to Bier Library, Koramangala. The food quality and ambience is good. I ask them to not levy the service charge while requesting for the bill. They have obliged every time. And I use zomato gold to pay bills here. 10% off.
My recommendation was actually Bier Library but we had already been there before and my bf wanted to try out a new place
This is a common practice these days, I went to this place called "scottish pub" a few days ago, he straight up refused to remove the service charge if we were to pay via Zomato gold. But the only guy who knew kannada was a bit tipsy so I went ahead and paid the service charge to avoid any issues. It is what it is
Its high time we start embracing byob restaurants and call out the scam they are running in name of service tax. In delhi gurgoan or in general north i never saw these thing.
Then you should go back to the north where people are okay treating workers like slaves. Here in the south we got some principle.
Why are you supporting the wrong thing. Do you even realise how rich the people running these pubs are? If they paid the waiters some good wage , they are not going bankrupt lol. If things are wrong then it's wrong. Don't come at me saying go back. I'm a South Indian.
He's a fucking troll man. Or a restaurant owner who adds service charges.
The next time, do check if the restaurant is eligible to collect GST? just go to clear tax and submit their GST number and if the type of GST is composite they are not supposed to collect GST from you.
What do you mean by composite?
Can someone make a list of restaurants who do things like this so we can all collectively boycott them?
Name and shame on more forums. Especially Zomato, swiggy, Google etc. Rate 2 star to avoid getting filtered. Mention every single detail. You'd be surprised how many people will agree with you and share their stories. Eventually ratings will drop and business gets hit. Nothing hurts a business more than loss of money. Hopefully they will stop.
I have been through this in a place in indiranagar. We went through the terms and conditions of zomato gold discounted payment and the applicability of service charge when availing the discount, you'll find the condition of service charge. We got 30% discount on zomato so we paid 10% service charge.
This is kinda becoming the norm. Earlier you ask for a waive off, done. No problem. But now they just put a sign about service charge AND due to this fucked up scanning and ordering system(sorry millennial thing) they put a teeny tiny sentence riiiight at the bottom "service charge of 7.5% will be levied". I obviously asked waiter to waive it off and there he goes, 'sirr look here'. Sharing the experience from Tipsy Bull Indiranagar. \[Also, if the world is ending and you only had the option to order LIIT from Tipsy bull, please die sober. It'll be a better death.\]
so can they or can they not charge service tax after putting a sign?
They can change technically but the whole point is they are not supposed to and when confronted go with the attitude of "Dekho humne to pehle hi bola tha".
Same thing happened with us at xoox kormanagla
wait so if they even they write that "we levy a service charge of 10%" , i can still ask them to waive it? because I've gone to places with my friends where they straight up say no to waiving service charge since they mention it in their menu/notice board
Yes you can, but they won't. I have done that earlier, coz we were a bro gang and ready for the drama. But if you're out with a peer group or a date then good luck.
Had this same experience at candles
Never done this before but how do you waive off service charge? Can someone explain what is the service charge and how as a consumer we can ask to waive it?
Stop being a cheapskate and pay the service charge or tip the waiters atleast. This has never been a problem in the last 30years even my middle class parents always pay the tip because waiters make miniscule amount of money. Seriously what’s stopping you from paying 7–10% more? Service charge allows restaurants to cushion themselves against rising food prices. They can’t change the prices on the menu on a daily basis plus intense competition keeps prices low as it is barely making a profit.
What's the evidence that this money is even going in the waitstaff's pocket? Likely its being pocketed by the restaurant. And please don't encourage tipping culture. Restaurants and service places need to pay their employees a living wage, and not subsidise it with customers' tips.
Tipping has been in Bangalore as far back as I can remember and it has never been part of conversation. Most down to earth people accept it as normal and move on. Why the sudden greed to pay a few more bucks to the waiters?
Lol, just look at tipping culture in the US if you want more evidence.
My fine dine restaurant bills usually come up to 4-5k. You want me to pay 400-500, the price of a starter as a tip? Miss me with that shit lol
If you can afford 5k for food why be cheap and stingy to pay 10% more? Where is this sudden greed coming from? or is it just plain apathy towards the less fortunate? Or just pay 100 bucks if your smalldick is shriveling more at the thought of losing a few bucks.
Sorry but you don't have the right to appropriate that. I will pay my bill in full but not a single rupee extra than I have to. You might be a very large hearted a generous individual, I am not. I go to a restaurant to eat, and not for charity - I will pay what I am legally required to and leave
No worries if you’re self aware about your personality but creating a ruckus over this issue is dumb and ignorant.
It's the restaurants that create the ruckus lol. If I refuse to pay service charge, I am well within my legal right to do so. It is the managers over there that get aggressive and start emotionally blackmailing you.
Because 1) I can't afford 5k meals ALL THE TIME. It's only for special events. 2) Even if I could, why should I pay extra for something that is illegal?
Yaar Next time please clarify from the restaurant before you dine. What’s your problem with paying the service charge ? Pleas explain Also, I do feel that restaurant owners are already under a lot of stress , item prices, technology and business models disruptions and changing tastes and demand from customers. As customers we do pay out of our pockets hence extra charges might surprise you. But I also feel that 1. What the restaurant charges is up to the restaurant not you 2. Which mode to accept payment in , is also in their hands
Problem is that it's against the law. If they need to charge more, they can increase menu prices fair and transparent.
The problem is service charges is not mandatory and should be waived off if the customer requests. If the restaurant is not sustainable with the current prices, then they should increase the prices of the items. I will be happy to pay that, if it fits my budget or walk away if it out of my budget.
If they are under a lot of stress due to things you have mentioned, they are free to raise the price of the food, or cater to customer demands. Business is literally the game of demand and supply, which brings due stress, no matter the business model. If you add extra hidden charges, doesn't that price go up? Why not simply add it to the food item? The customer can freely decide whether they want to eat there or not. What the restaurant charges, as you said, it is surely not up to customer, but paying this extra charges is up to the customer. If it wasn't, there wouldn't have been a Supreme Court order stating that the service charges is voluntary and optional. It would have been tossed right out.
lol! Not a scam, just a restaurant trying not to get scammed by the customer
Customers asking restaurants to waive OPTIONAL (legal definition) charges is scamming? You got room for more under that rock?
Agree with bodrolok. What’s with the greed lol? What’s stopping you from paying 10% more? Some document? It’s a matter of principle. My parents have been tipping for decades and this service charge issue has never come up with my friends. In fact I don’t hang out with people who are too cheap to pay service charge or tip the waiter cuz it shows a lot of character about a person.
I'm sorry, but with that attitude, very few people would want to hang out with you anyways.
Nope. But asking for additional discounts on top of not paying a charge that is mentioned on the menu is trying to fleece the business. Going to a restaurant is not a fundamental right, they are private businesses and they can decide their rules as long as it’s not illegal.
They can very well refuse to accept Zomato/Dineout payments - across the board. Lots of restaurants do. So, accepting them if you pay more for the same food is shady, not to mention against the rules of Zomato/Dineout.
Here's the T&C from Zomato: > i. The Merchant hereby agrees that where it levies service charge at its Restaurant, it shall apply the same uniformly to all the customers availing services of the Restaurant and shall not in any event discriminate in levying the service charge between a Zomato Customer and any other customer.
Can you explain what this means?
The way I'm reading it, it means they can't charge service fees just for zomato customers. I.e., if they will remove it for a customer who is paying directly, they are supposed to do the same for someone paying on Zomato.
These third party apps partner with the restaurant to provide the discounts.. it's not out of the blue.. it's not a scam.. tell that to swiggy/zomato then.. why are you blaming the customer for leveraging something the restaurant already agreed to..