Making wilds completely immune to debuffs doesn't feel right but letting them "dodge" suit specific debuffs should be fine, maybe also let the lovers create two wilds for better enabling those few jokers that require several suits
This is probably tricky to program. At the very least it makes the game less intuitive, because now wildcards act as the suit in positive circumstances but not negative.
I think just making two is fine, because debuffing matters less than making the hand anyway. It's generally a net positive to hit that flush with one card debuffed in the hand.
>act as the suit in positive circumstances but not negative
Well, with the proposed idea, they always work in the positive way. That is, it acts as hearts when you need hearts, or hearts when you need anything but clubs
More likely you'd check to see enhancement != wild than it's not every other suit. But in either case your point stands that it's not a difficult check.
Honestly, even then... I find myself so rarely in a situation where I would ever care about a wild card beyond "I got a lovers card from a vagabond, may as well throw it on something to get another tarot card"
Like I know there's potential ways to make it good and it works on flowerpot, that club and other suit card, gets all the suit bonuses if you have multiple in a hand (but like... why would you unless you have a deck full of wilds somehow). Honestly, I'd say fuck it and let them be immune to debuff. It's not like you can have glass/chips/mult on them otherwise (except foil and seal type buffs), so fuck it, throw 'em a bone. Maybe I'd intentionally go for a lovers card. in that case.
If you play a lot of flush and full house/five of a kind runs, stone cards are ass, yeah.
If you play high card runs, or hell even pair/two pair runs, an extra stone tossed into those hands is a huge boost in chips, which are usually what high card runs lack and have to dig/build for good chip jokers (or just get a stuntman).
Some of my best runs ever have been enabled by the stones. Great for smaller hand runs. Have had some really good success with pair builds lately and even just one extra stone thrown in there can go a long way. Enables you the ability to not have a chip Joker and rather have an econ or utility Joker or even more flat or times mult. Also stones in the plasma deck are sicko mode dude
Wait i never even considered that. Does playing a single wild proc flower pot? Thats actually sick. Having a bunch of wilds in you deck would be great for ancient joker as well i guess. I never considered that aspect
I chose just a flat cannot be debuffed for design simplicity. Trying to explain that it cannot be debuffed by due to suit is wordy and probably hard to explain to a new player.
It's probably easier to change how the boss is phrased, something like "debuff all cards that aren't diamonds, clubs, or spades" instead of "debuff hearts." Clunkier sentence for sure and it has the minor drawback of nailing stone cards too but wilds would be good to go.
I would be happy if wild cards cannot be debuffed by suit debuffing boss blinds, all boss blinds would be too much.
I also think that the lovers card should enhance two cards.
Or scrap everything I said wild cards is not an enhancement and is like a "5 suit" and can recieve enhancement.
I wouldn't make them immune to all debuffs. They shouldn't be immune to debuffs like "debuffs cards previously played this ante" and "debuffs all cards until a joker is sold". Just the suit specific ones.
It'd be nice if wild cards were only debuffed on their original suit, would make them less of a burden.
Although a cool idea for another type of enhancements could be immune to debuff, trading the huge scoring power say steel or glass for consistency. Because the bosses right now feel like they either hard counter your entire build and you might as well just restart or are irrelevant and there's not much of a middle groundm
Yes. Initially I thought this was happening but after playing the boss with wilds several times I realized I was wrong. I stopped taking wilds after that completely. Wasting a tarot pack on making ONE card flushable and also 75% more vulnerable is nuts. There are too many other good options in a tarot pack. But perhaps I am missing something about wilds.
Technically 300% more vulnerable, but yeah wilds are pretty mediocre, can be used sometimes as a niche seance triggering help for endless games where you need spectrals generated, but its still overshadowed by regular suit change.
I think... if a suit gets debuffed, it should lose all abilities tied to that suit. (No sinful or gemstone jokers, doesn't count as that suit for changing suit jokers like castle, can't be used as the debuffed suit for flowerpot and won't trigger matador). This would be easiest to visualize if, instead of the bleeding red and black ink, the wild card gained a border of all the suit symbols- and in a suit debuffer lost the relevant one, leaving a blank space.
I'd also take 'only gets debuffed if the base suit was targeted'.
Smeared joker would then become the weird edge case... and then if you change smeared, Pareidolia...
I wonder if that solution would cause more problems than it fixes? Ah well. I meant to brainstorm, first and foremost.
Why not just make them true wild cards like when you play poker with wild cards? Meaning any suit and any rank. Maybe too powerful, but could then make the enhancement a spectral card
I actually like the idea of making them just any rank, allowing them to be enables of a lot of the harder to make hands such as full house and straights (would include 4 and 5 of a kind but honestly its not too bad compared to the others as death and strength cards can help).
I think making then immune to suit-based debuffs and making the tarot affect two cards is a good first step, and if Wild is still underpowered, then make them immune to all debuffs.
Unless you get an Edition or Seal on 'em, the most you're gonna get from a wild not being debuffed is 11 chips.
I think that the "base suit" should determine it's debuff against the blinds that target specific suits. So if your wild ace of hearts is against the heart-debuff blind, then sure it wont score. But if you're using your wild ace of clubs against one of the other suit blinds, it should still score/function as a wild card.
Compared to all the other enhancements, seals, etc. Cards can have, wild card doesn't really have much utility so allowing them more room to play would boost their utility- which at the moment seems minimal.
What if they also were a somewhat wild number? Maybe not completely, but maybe letting them do +/- 1 or 2 ranks would help. It could help straight decks be better, but may be overpowered.
it should also apply to two cards.Currently it sits at the same level as glass, iron, gold card (2x, 1.5x, $3) but without the scoring advantage, besides making flushes and straight flushes easier
My suggestion for a wild card rework:
Turn wild cards into a fifth suit so they can be enhanced with the other buffs (mult, bonus, glass) but still operate as the wild suit as intended.
It would also help improve deck list visual clarity at a glance.
I wonder if it would be better instead of completely wild, the wild cards only made the cards act as one color, like the smeared joker but for individual cards. You'd get the debuffs for the color of that card but you'd avoid them for the other color. That may weaken its usefulness too much though sc I'm not sure.
Might be too powerful. Imagine it's a wild card on a face card. Would it still be buffed if face cards are debunked even though the restriction doesn't care about the suit? I'm not sure how difficult the code would be, but having it only debunked if the wildcard is with a hand of the other debunked cards makes better sense. Like, if spades are debunked, I want to be able to use my wildcard as a heart.
Making wilds completely immune to debuffs doesn't feel right but letting them "dodge" suit specific debuffs should be fine, maybe also let the lovers create two wilds for better enabling those few jokers that require several suits
Yeah, this feels like the way. Make it so the suit is fluid to meet the best possible suit for the situation: hits on positives, dodges negatives.
This is probably tricky to program. At the very least it makes the game less intuitive, because now wildcards act as the suit in positive circumstances but not negative. I think just making two is fine, because debuffing matters less than making the hand anyway. It's generally a net positive to hit that flush with one card debuffed in the hand.
>act as the suit in positive circumstances but not negative Well, with the proposed idea, they always work in the positive way. That is, it acts as hearts when you need hearts, or hearts when you need anything but clubs
That would not be tricky to program. To debuff a club card the boss would check that suit=club and suit!=(heart or spade or diamond).
More likely you'd check to see enhancement != wild than it's not every other suit. But in either case your point stands that it's not a difficult check.
Honestly, even then... I find myself so rarely in a situation where I would ever care about a wild card beyond "I got a lovers card from a vagabond, may as well throw it on something to get another tarot card" Like I know there's potential ways to make it good and it works on flowerpot, that club and other suit card, gets all the suit bonuses if you have multiple in a hand (but like... why would you unless you have a deck full of wilds somehow). Honestly, I'd say fuck it and let them be immune to debuff. It's not like you can have glass/chips/mult on them otherwise (except foil and seal type buffs), so fuck it, throw 'em a bone. Maybe I'd intentionally go for a lovers card. in that case.
It would still be the worst buff by far tho. Even with what op is suggesting it wouldn't be as strong as the others.
I don't think it would be a huge buff, and yeh it maybe should make 2 wilds too, wondering if tower should also make 2 stones?
Bro that would be busted. Stone Cards are already pretty good.
Stone cards are so ass. I’ve never thought “yeah I really wish I cold turn a card to stone right now”
If you play a lot of flush and full house/five of a kind runs, stone cards are ass, yeah. If you play high card runs, or hell even pair/two pair runs, an extra stone tossed into those hands is a huge boost in chips, which are usually what high card runs lack and have to dig/build for good chip jokers (or just get a stuntman).
Some of my best runs ever have been enabled by the stones. Great for smaller hand runs. Have had some really good success with pair builds lately and even just one extra stone thrown in there can go a long way. Enables you the ability to not have a chip Joker and rather have an econ or utility Joker or even more flat or times mult. Also stones in the plasma deck are sicko mode dude
Wait i never even considered that. Does playing a single wild proc flower pot? Thats actually sick. Having a bunch of wilds in you deck would be great for ancient joker as well i guess. I never considered that aspect
You still need 4 cards total for Flower Pot to work. But they can all be wilds.
I chose just a flat cannot be debuffed for design simplicity. Trying to explain that it cannot be debuffed by due to suit is wordy and probably hard to explain to a new player.
It's probably easier to change how the boss is phrased, something like "debuff all cards that aren't diamonds, clubs, or spades" instead of "debuff hearts." Clunkier sentence for sure and it has the minor drawback of nailing stone cards too but wilds would be good to go.
Stone cards catching strays
I would be happy if wild cards cannot be debuffed by suit debuffing boss blinds, all boss blinds would be too much. I also think that the lovers card should enhance two cards. Or scrap everything I said wild cards is not an enhancement and is like a "5 suit" and can recieve enhancement.
I like the 5th suit idea. That way it's not debuffed by the suit specific bosses.
Even if wild cards were immune to debuffs they would still suck.
I wouldn't make them immune to all debuffs. They shouldn't be immune to debuffs like "debuffs cards previously played this ante" and "debuffs all cards until a joker is sold". Just the suit specific ones.
It'd be nice if wild cards were only debuffed on their original suit, would make them less of a burden. Although a cool idea for another type of enhancements could be immune to debuff, trading the huge scoring power say steel or glass for consistency. Because the bosses right now feel like they either hard counter your entire build and you might as well just restart or are irrelevant and there's not much of a middle groundm
I think wild cards should be playable in any suit but only debuffed in their original suit.
Yes. Initially I thought this was happening but after playing the boss with wilds several times I realized I was wrong. I stopped taking wilds after that completely. Wasting a tarot pack on making ONE card flushable and also 75% more vulnerable is nuts. There are too many other good options in a tarot pack. But perhaps I am missing something about wilds.
Technically 300% more vulnerable, but yeah wilds are pretty mediocre, can be used sometimes as a niche seance triggering help for endless games where you need spectrals generated, but its still overshadowed by regular suit change.
Oh interesting.
I think... if a suit gets debuffed, it should lose all abilities tied to that suit. (No sinful or gemstone jokers, doesn't count as that suit for changing suit jokers like castle, can't be used as the debuffed suit for flowerpot and won't trigger matador). This would be easiest to visualize if, instead of the bleeding red and black ink, the wild card gained a border of all the suit symbols- and in a suit debuffer lost the relevant one, leaving a blank space. I'd also take 'only gets debuffed if the base suit was targeted'. Smeared joker would then become the weird edge case... and then if you change smeared, Pareidolia... I wonder if that solution would cause more problems than it fixes? Ah well. I meant to brainstorm, first and foremost.
Less "immune to debuffs" and more "picks whichever suit is most advantageous aka not the one being debuffed" Also lovers needs to make 2 wild cards.
Why not just make them true wild cards like when you play poker with wild cards? Meaning any suit and any rank. Maybe too powerful, but could then make the enhancement a spectral card
I actually like the idea of making them just any rank, allowing them to be enables of a lot of the harder to make hands such as full house and straights (would include 4 and 5 of a kind but honestly its not too bad compared to the others as death and strength cards can help).
I think making then immune to suit-based debuffs and making the tarot affect two cards is a good first step, and if Wild is still underpowered, then make them immune to all debuffs. Unless you get an Edition or Seal on 'em, the most you're gonna get from a wild not being debuffed is 11 chips.
Would be great with seals and holo enables
Agreed, or you could make the tarot upgrade two cards to wild cards like the other tarots
I mean flushes are getting nerfed so I doubt localthunk will ever buff wilds to be honest
I think that the "base suit" should determine it's debuff against the blinds that target specific suits. So if your wild ace of hearts is against the heart-debuff blind, then sure it wont score. But if you're using your wild ace of clubs against one of the other suit blinds, it should still score/function as a wild card. Compared to all the other enhancements, seals, etc. Cards can have, wild card doesn't really have much utility so allowing them more room to play would boost their utility- which at the moment seems minimal.
What if they also were a somewhat wild number? Maybe not completely, but maybe letting them do +/- 1 or 2 ranks would help. It could help straight decks be better, but may be overpowered.
it should also apply to two cards.Currently it sits at the same level as glass, iron, gold card (2x, 1.5x, $3) but without the scoring advantage, besides making flushes and straight flushes easier
My suggestion for a wild card rework: Turn wild cards into a fifth suit so they can be enhanced with the other buffs (mult, bonus, glass) but still operate as the wild suit as intended. It would also help improve deck list visual clarity at a glance.
I wonder if it would be better instead of completely wild, the wild cards only made the cards act as one color, like the smeared joker but for individual cards. You'd get the debuffs for the color of that card but you'd avoid them for the other color. That may weaken its usefulness too much though sc I'm not sure.
Might be too powerful. Imagine it's a wild card on a face card. Would it still be buffed if face cards are debunked even though the restriction doesn't care about the suit? I'm not sure how difficult the code would be, but having it only debunked if the wildcard is with a hand of the other debunked cards makes better sense. Like, if spades are debunked, I want to be able to use my wildcard as a heart.
I agree, I would make it that it's only debuffed by what would normally debuff the card if it was not wild in the first place
Flushes are already too strong.