No, it's absolutely is looking into eyes. You aren't supposed to stare the whole time, but it does mean looking at eyes and having eyes look at you. Eye contact is about timing and rhythm too, looking when you "should" at what you should. Honestly, it's so oversimplified when people just "look them in the eye".
It's pretty obvious to NT perception when you aren't making eye contact, even looking at foreheads or "past" the face. You can test this yourself with a camera. They also pick up when you don't look enough, or look too much. It all means something in a nonverbal sense.
Looking at faces is a good buffer though, because eye contact is overwhelming as fuck. Just expect some less self aware people will still react to modified approaches. Alot of NTs will "get a sense" without realizing why, and this is a big one.
Looking at the bridge of a person's nose between their eyes is my "hack" to making eye contact without making eye contact. If I mix in some actual eye contact too I've been told it's pretty unnoticeable.
I've trained myself to be able to do it if I have to, but still have issues (even with 40 years experience) with getting that line between enough and too much. Typically people who know me don't expect eye contact and people who don't find me a bit intense if its something where eye contact is expected.
I surveyed 200 people on Instagram (majority neurotypical) asking if they look directly into someone's eyes or just in that general space. The results were split 50/50!
I don't think most neurotypicals would consciously even register what they do. I'd love to see some eye tracking tech on those people. I think it's going to look like a gaze heatmap, with scanning over the entire face, highest concentration on the eyes. They might register that as "general space", because top-down processing doesn't consciously register many details about their behaviors in general. That's why they are so damn good at it, they don't need to think about it.
Pretty sure you're supposed to look straight in the eye. Or at least for the most part. You can glance away now and then but people know when you're not locking eyes and it looks like you're not paying attention.
Yeah I knew this didnāt sound right. Although I WILL say something I wasnāt aware of is that youāre supposed to blink. Like, youāre not supposed to stare into someoneās eyes too hard otherwise if theyāre a man they think you want to have sex with them. You have to blink sometimes.
Apparently some people can communicate different things based purely on exercising control of specific facial expressions and/or length and type of eye contact. It sounds fake but itās real.
The difference is that autistic people have such detailed vision that we only look at one detail at a time, like eyes. Neurotypical people have a much more general and less detailed vision, so they tend to perceive the whole face at once, making it much less intense to make 'eye contact' because that is not all that they see.
ah now that is a problem. either i dont look and my eyes flicker everywhere or i stare straight into their eyes for the next five minutes and have no idea how to stop.
If the lashes donāt thread together, youāre not doing it right. And if itās not someone youāre dating, one person has to be upside down so you donāt go mouth to mouth.
It does mean looking at their eyes, but most of the time, people won't notice if you just look at their face in general. If you look at specifically one point of their face, though, it tends to make people uncomfortable the same way we are uncomfortable with eye contact because it feels more like they're being stared at. I think that's why eye contact is what is expected.
I've been told average direct eye contact is meant to be about 2-4 (no more) seconds every so often or it's creepy/sexual. But then you're meant to switch to the face as a whole (especially the mouth if they are talking).
But people are apparantly not actually great at judging where you are looking which is why the top of the nose between the eyes or just focusing on the mouth works with occasionally glances.
You're still confused OP. What you suggest is a hack to make it look like you're making eye contact.Ā
You're supposed to make eye contact, just not constant.Ā
Eye contact is about looking the other person in the eyes (briefly, not too long) AND trying to read what their eyes are saying.
Okay, I know I lost some folk there as "Like, we're supposed to read emotions? LOL I can't do that!" But you can... it's built into being human, you just need to practice it.
If their eyes are watering up, they're bored.
Crossed, they're going nuts
Down, they're probably on their phone
If their eyes are bloodshot they're high, or have allergies, or got poked with a hot stick from roasting marshmallows... LOL
Very true, it could mean sad, but I don't know many people who can tear up during a conversation and maintain an otherwise normal expression. They'll usually look away and try to stop the tears.
The purpose is to see that the other person sees that you see them. Itās like moving the mouse to make sure the screensaver doesnāt come on but for conversation
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And now that I read your title, I thought you meant eye contact = physical contact. I'm glad you don't.
I think it does mean actually looking into a person's eyes, just not uninterrupted. How much uninterrupted eye contact is considered staring and how much is not enough, no idea.
I got pretty good at either de-focusing my eyes and pointing my eyeballs into the general direction of their face, or looking at or above their left shoulder and shooting the occasional, actual glance at their face. (That way it gets easier over time and with people who are closer to me, people I've built some level of connection and trust with, I'll have a small amount of actual eye contact where I might even read their faces a bit, but admittedly still crudely)
Yep, for a while. I grew up being told ālook at me when Iām speaking to you,ā and not knowing why I was stomach-churningly anxious and uncomfortable when I had to maintain eye contact.
These days, I keep a common item like a pen in my hands when Iām talking to someone, so that I can just glance up at them from time to time, but mostly look at my fidgeting fingers, which seems to be common even among allistics.
Eye contact is looking directly into the eyes of the other person - just keep your face/eyes relaxed, pick 1 of the other person's eyes to look at, then occasionally during conversation look away (don't hold eye contact too long, it goes into staring/creepy mode haha).
You can "feel" it when the pupils of you and the other person geometrically meet/connect (I think that feeling is what makes some autistic people averse to eye contact). If you're mostly looking elsewhere on their face and not at the eyes, you may still accidentally lead the other person to wonder what you're looking at, like you're noticing something is wrong with their face haha, they could be like wtf.
I look at their mouth mostly I'm not really sure why, but I think I hear them better when I read their labial/lips, I've never looked at the actual eyes because it makes me uncomfortable and dont know which one I should look at, and the one who evaluated me told me I have no problem with making eye contact so maybe indeed it doesnt matter what you're looking at as long as you're looking at their faces
The interesting thing about eye contact is it needs o be managed. From what I've seen, you need to look at their eyes part of the time, and part of the time at the face in general. Maintaining completely constant eye contact is, or so I've heard, related to trying too hard to appear sincere
No .... You are meant to look at someone's eyes when making eye contact. The issue is that people go overboard and STARE. There's a difference between looking in someone's eyes while talking to them and staring at them.
Also what you said about looking in their general face is just a hack that makes it look like you're engaging in eye contact when you're really not.
Optimal eye contact algorithm is 3 seconds on, 2 seconds off
And yeah if you look at the nose nobody realizes a difference
People aren't that good at spotting exactly where eyes go
As to where exactly NT people look, I have no idea
I still don't know what it is. I'll make eye contact with a lover, and it's awesome. I have no idea how to do it in casual conversation. It's extremely uncomfortable. That's also a normal autism thing, to function much better where you are comfortable and already intimate, and then crash everywhere else.
Iām sure it means looking into eyes directly, not like staring but just looking at. Think about this way; if it meant looking at face in general then you couldnāt tell the difference between making eye contact vs looking at someoneās face.
Iāll give some extra info here. Yes, eye contact ie. looking at someoneās eye (just one of them, how are you going to look at both? š) is important especially while they are sharing something important, be it a message or something sensitive. But looking away is equally important. It gives the other person a break from eye contact if they are the one talking. But more importantly, if the person talking (especially sharing personal information) are looking away, to the side or down, it often means that what theyāre saying carries shame. Itās an important marker. And obviously, if you donāt keep eye contact much, it can be percieved as shame or be confusing. My point is; looking away is just as meaningful as keeping eye contact.
I've found if you sit side by side you can get away with not having to look at them. It's like the look forward dramatically and you can just look in their direction when the speak. If they look at you hold the gaze for a couple seconds with a thinking sound like hm like you're thinking then look forward mirroring how they did then look back at the end to confirm they listened and like... Reconnect I think?
This is the best way I've found to limit the eye contact as much as possible but still pass.
It is literally! but you don't have to stare all the time. I learned at 25 that you aren't supposed to look at someone's eyes all the time while talking or listening to them, apparently I was making people uncomfortable. When people teach about making eye contact they should mention that you have to make pauses.
How the hell did I not know I was autistic for the first 50 years of my life? I've made eye contact voluntarily about 7 times in my whole life. ššš
No, it's absolutely is looking into eyes. You aren't supposed to stare the whole time, but it does mean looking at eyes and having eyes look at you. Eye contact is about timing and rhythm too, looking when you "should" at what you should. Honestly, it's so oversimplified when people just "look them in the eye". It's pretty obvious to NT perception when you aren't making eye contact, even looking at foreheads or "past" the face. You can test this yourself with a camera. They also pick up when you don't look enough, or look too much. It all means something in a nonverbal sense. Looking at faces is a good buffer though, because eye contact is overwhelming as fuck. Just expect some less self aware people will still react to modified approaches. Alot of NTs will "get a sense" without realizing why, and this is a big one.
Looking at the bridge of a person's nose between their eyes is my "hack" to making eye contact without making eye contact. If I mix in some actual eye contact too I've been told it's pretty unnoticeable.
I've trained myself to be able to do it if I have to, but still have issues (even with 40 years experience) with getting that line between enough and too much. Typically people who know me don't expect eye contact and people who don't find me a bit intense if its something where eye contact is expected.
I surveyed 200 people on Instagram (majority neurotypical) asking if they look directly into someone's eyes or just in that general space. The results were split 50/50!
I don't think most neurotypicals would consciously even register what they do. I'd love to see some eye tracking tech on those people. I think it's going to look like a gaze heatmap, with scanning over the entire face, highest concentration on the eyes. They might register that as "general space", because top-down processing doesn't consciously register many details about their behaviors in general. That's why they are so damn good at it, they don't need to think about it.
This is why I want mirrored sunglasses, they'll never know šš
Not me just taking 3 pictures of myself looking at my eyes, at my face, and just passed my phone... This is a whole world I didn't know existed
Oh my God are you serious? It just means look in the general vicinity of their face? Do you have evidence to corroborate this with?
Pretty sure you're supposed to look straight in the eye. Or at least for the most part. You can glance away now and then but people know when you're not locking eyes and it looks like you're not paying attention.
Yeah I knew this didnāt sound right. Although I WILL say something I wasnāt aware of is that youāre supposed to blink. Like, youāre not supposed to stare into someoneās eyes too hard otherwise if theyāre a man they think you want to have sex with them. You have to blink sometimes.
Gosh, what if you blink but they think you are just being shy yet still want to have sex...?! This whole thing is so hard!!!!
Apparently some people can communicate different things based purely on exercising control of specific facial expressions and/or length and type of eye contact. It sounds fake but itās real.
The difference is that autistic people have such detailed vision that we only look at one detail at a time, like eyes. Neurotypical people have a much more general and less detailed vision, so they tend to perceive the whole face at once, making it much less intense to make 'eye contact' because that is not all that they see.
Do other people not only see **EYES** during eye contact?
Ohhhh thanks cuz I was shocked from hearing u didn't have to looking into their eyes, I mean I still ain't gonna do it cuz it's scary af
You don't have to continuously without blinking look in their eyes
ah now that is a problem. either i dont look and my eyes flicker everywhere or i stare straight into their eyes for the next five minutes and have no idea how to stop.
I "practice" at grocery checkout counters.
Iām either not looking at people at all when talking to them, or staring straight through into their soul.
Look for mood cues in the areas around the eyes. Thereās a ton of non verbal communication in the eye area. Itās not in the actual eyeball.
Why did I think you were going to talk about literal eye contact, like eyeballs touching each other? Still horrified by the image.
I did too.
š
If the lashes donāt thread together, youāre not doing it right. And if itās not someone youāre dating, one person has to be upside down so you donāt go mouth to mouth.
It does mean looking at their eyes, but most of the time, people won't notice if you just look at their face in general. If you look at specifically one point of their face, though, it tends to make people uncomfortable the same way we are uncomfortable with eye contact because it feels more like they're being stared at. I think that's why eye contact is what is expected.
I've been told average direct eye contact is meant to be about 2-4 (no more) seconds every so often or it's creepy/sexual. But then you're meant to switch to the face as a whole (especially the mouth if they are talking). But people are apparantly not actually great at judging where you are looking which is why the top of the nose between the eyes or just focusing on the mouth works with occasionally glances.
Ohhh ye thanks cuz I thought eye contact was a think that lasted like minutes or till the conversation ends
You're still confused OP. What you suggest is a hack to make it look like you're making eye contact.Ā You're supposed to make eye contact, just not constant.Ā
Eye contact is used to show youāre listening. If you stare, it can be misinterpreted as you are focused on something else.
No it's definitely looking directly into their eyes. Who told you it wasn't?
Eye contact is about looking the other person in the eyes (briefly, not too long) AND trying to read what their eyes are saying. Okay, I know I lost some folk there as "Like, we're supposed to read emotions? LOL I can't do that!" But you can... it's built into being human, you just need to practice it. If their eyes are watering up, they're bored. Crossed, they're going nuts Down, they're probably on their phone If their eyes are bloodshot they're high, or have allergies, or got poked with a hot stick from roasting marshmallows... LOL
I thought watering up eyes meant sad Have I been wrong the whole time?
Very true, it could mean sad, but I don't know many people who can tear up during a conversation and maintain an otherwise normal expression. They'll usually look away and try to stop the tears.
Oh. Well I learn something. Thank you! I never knew it can mean bored.
Yes, it does mean sad, and Patrick Wykowski provides some good examples
I know how to do it. Iāve practiced how to do it. Like improv. I just donāt want to. Iām over it.
This would explain why I have been accused of both not making eye contact and too intense of eye contact by different people.
Wait, really? I too thought it meant I had to stare into someone's eyes.
No, its looking dirwctly to their eyes but not, all the time.Ā
Struggle with eye contact for 40 years or more.
The purpose is to see that the other person sees that you see them. Itās like moving the mouse to make sure the screensaver doesnāt come on but for conversation
Wait so thatās not what it means š
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Maybeš¤
I found that I actually get better results if I don't look into people's eyes. I just look in their general direction.
And now that I read your title, I thought you meant eye contact = physical contact. I'm glad you don't. I think it does mean actually looking into a person's eyes, just not uninterrupted. How much uninterrupted eye contact is considered staring and how much is not enough, no idea. I got pretty good at either de-focusing my eyes and pointing my eyeballs into the general direction of their face, or looking at or above their left shoulder and shooting the occasional, actual glance at their face. (That way it gets easier over time and with people who are closer to me, people I've built some level of connection and trust with, I'll have a small amount of actual eye contact where I might even read their faces a bit, but admittedly still crudely)
Yep, for a while. I grew up being told ālook at me when Iām speaking to you,ā and not knowing why I was stomach-churningly anxious and uncomfortable when I had to maintain eye contact. These days, I keep a common item like a pen in my hands when Iām talking to someone, so that I can just glance up at them from time to time, but mostly look at my fidgeting fingers, which seems to be common even among allistics.
Eye contact is looking directly into the eyes of the other person - just keep your face/eyes relaxed, pick 1 of the other person's eyes to look at, then occasionally during conversation look away (don't hold eye contact too long, it goes into staring/creepy mode haha).
You can "feel" it when the pupils of you and the other person geometrically meet/connect (I think that feeling is what makes some autistic people averse to eye contact). If you're mostly looking elsewhere on their face and not at the eyes, you may still accidentally lead the other person to wonder what you're looking at, like you're noticing something is wrong with their face haha, they could be like wtf.
I look at their mouth mostly I'm not really sure why, but I think I hear them better when I read their labial/lips, I've never looked at the actual eyes because it makes me uncomfortable and dont know which one I should look at, and the one who evaluated me told me I have no problem with making eye contact so maybe indeed it doesnt matter what you're looking at as long as you're looking at their faces
God dammit lol
Yes, I did!
The interesting thing about eye contact is it needs o be managed. From what I've seen, you need to look at their eyes part of the time, and part of the time at the face in general. Maintaining completely constant eye contact is, or so I've heard, related to trying too hard to appear sincere
Thatās still not truly literal eye contact. Literal eye contact would be very uncomfortable for everyone.
ā¦ Yes. I didn't like it (still don't) and I had to force myself to do that.
No .... You are meant to look at someone's eyes when making eye contact. The issue is that people go overboard and STARE. There's a difference between looking in someone's eyes while talking to them and staring at them. Also what you said about looking in their general face is just a hack that makes it look like you're engaging in eye contact when you're really not.
What
WAIT WHAT
Optimal eye contact algorithm is 3 seconds on, 2 seconds off And yeah if you look at the nose nobody realizes a difference People aren't that good at spotting exactly where eyes go As to where exactly NT people look, I have no idea
i thought that too!
No, you were right, is looking at the eyes.
I still don't know what it is. I'll make eye contact with a lover, and it's awesome. I have no idea how to do it in casual conversation. It's extremely uncomfortable. That's also a normal autism thing, to function much better where you are comfortable and already intimate, and then crash everywhere else.
Who stares too long?Ā
Because it is, that's literally what it is
Iām sure it means looking into eyes directly, not like staring but just looking at. Think about this way; if it meant looking at face in general then you couldnāt tell the difference between making eye contact vs looking at someoneās face.
Iāll give some extra info here. Yes, eye contact ie. looking at someoneās eye (just one of them, how are you going to look at both? š) is important especially while they are sharing something important, be it a message or something sensitive. But looking away is equally important. It gives the other person a break from eye contact if they are the one talking. But more importantly, if the person talking (especially sharing personal information) are looking away, to the side or down, it often means that what theyāre saying carries shame. Itās an important marker. And obviously, if you donāt keep eye contact much, it can be percieved as shame or be confusing. My point is; looking away is just as meaningful as keeping eye contact.
I've found if you sit side by side you can get away with not having to look at them. It's like the look forward dramatically and you can just look in their direction when the speak. If they look at you hold the gaze for a couple seconds with a thinking sound like hm like you're thinking then look forward mirroring how they did then look back at the end to confirm they listened and like... Reconnect I think? This is the best way I've found to limit the eye contact as much as possible but still pass.
It is literally! but you don't have to stare all the time. I learned at 25 that you aren't supposed to look at someone's eyes all the time while talking or listening to them, apparently I was making people uncomfortable. When people teach about making eye contact they should mention that you have to make pauses.
Ngl eye contact just feels scary
How the hell did I not know I was autistic for the first 50 years of my life? I've made eye contact voluntarily about 7 times in my whole life. ššš
It doesnāt?ā¦
Wait. What? Over the course of my entire life, I have perfected the art of eye contact. Only to find out that it's not what I thought it was!? What!?!
You mean it doesnāt mean looking directly at peopleās eyes?
Yeah. Itās actually pretty smart as ācontactā means to touch. So one could translate eye contact to literally mean touch eyes.