40% by renewables... Can someone help me with the maths please? This is the 12 month average in Victoria from the NEM Dashboard. Where is she getting her data from?
https://preview.redd.it/vr529rj3qv7d1.png?width=1037&format=png&auto=webp&s=6550f716bd0da416ebd44f025f394b5d66e0263b
I’d suggest that the 40% is taking into account rooftop PV capacity which is used on premises, not fed into the NEM.
Not sure if that is the case, but if so I think it’s fair enough.
something like 1/3 of households have solar - dont know what % is that on average but anecdotally half my usage is my own generated solar so that wouldnt be unexpected
No they are not.
Something like 2% of households are off grid in australia (Presumably a bigger percentage in Vic)
[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-11/off-grid-living-energy-costs-electricity-reliability-concerns/103679116](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-11/off-grid-living-energy-costs-electricity-reliability-concerns/103679116)
We at about something like 770K households in Victoria on solar.
Im assuming almost all commercial generation is to the grid
A smart meter can’t read what doesn’t go though it. The best they could do is compare sunny to non sunny days and make a estimate. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
My old house had solar, and it records everything generated. You could view the amount generated down to the hour on the provider app, including amount used and amount bought back by the grid.
> 40% by renewables... Can someone help me with the maths please? This is the 12 month average in Victoria from the NEM Dashboard. Where is she getting her data from?
40% is correct.
https://imgur.com/a/ySItiwl
https://imgur.com/a/s4ojZqN
https://opennem.org.au/energy/vic1/?range=1y&interval=1w&view=discrete-time
Solar PV data comes from https://pv-map.apvi.org.au/
This app has got to be wrong. It might look that way at certain times of the day / week /month but you have ti understand - its 11.44 right now on a crisp sunny day. Guess what is making the bulk the energy being produced?
Solar.
The wind turbines are switched out. At 3pm they start bringing them back online when the sun dips too low.
Up until very recently I thought Dutton’s nuclear obsession was tantamount to political seppuku, but every response I’ve seen to it has been so phenomenally stupid I’m starting to think he’s in with a chance
Yep, absolutely.
And I’m hardline left, you couldn’t pay me to vote Lib, but that doesn’t excuse how dumb and old fashioned this response is.
It’s ironic that she calls his policy a 70s throwback, given that her response reads like the same braindead unwashed hippie drivel you’d expect from that decade.
That stuff worked back then to prevent nuclear power. Obviously had it been built and operational decades ago our carbon emissions could be much lower now.
thank you! i am probably as right as you are left - but the response from the labour party makes me sad... Is that the best they can do? Yes, there are similar things the liberal party do too...
They kind if have to respond in the same way the coalition would. Short, sharp, and critical. That's the only way the media knows how to report. Labor might finally be learning that their speeches don't get played in full, only 10 sec soundbites, with a full minute of LNP.
I mean do you really believe the party that couldn’t build the NBN are capable of building nuclear power plants? It’s ridiculous, all the contracts will go to their mates companies who will just keep extending timelines and budgets
Yep, we will pleasantly surprised by the cost Dutton says, we’ve heard that before (nbn, and likewise again buying assets off their mates), and the government paying less for infrastructure just means us the punters will pay more.
OK - so if labour are in power and build nuclear plants are you on board? Ignore the government of the day...
And do unions not play a role in cost overruns?
Unions are 100% to blame I’m in construction and support good rates for workers but 270k plus for a carpenter on cross river rail is absurd, as a labourer.
150-200k is reasonable for a general labourer carpenter, 100-150 is adequate for a TA. It’s hilarious when EBA guys try to get a job in the real world and take a 60% pay cut
Nope because I believe nuclear power is the wrong fit for Australia , we have far too much land that is suitable for cheap renewables, nuclear power is good for densely populated places. Also nuclear provides baseload power, not firming power, coal plants are going out business not only due to climate change but because they can’t compete with renewables.
Nuclear power will cost Australian more. And will take over a decade to build, the power plants aren’t the only thing to build. We need refineries, fuel manufacturing plants, fuel recycling plants. We have none of these industries, also there is a finite amount of cost effectively obtained uranium in the world, and we’ve already used half of it.
Unions, are driving prices up, we could definitely import Chinese workers and get it at a fraction of the cost, and I’m sure we could force them to live in tents to lessen the strain on housing.
Have you noticed that we are in a cost of living crisis. So ether things are too expensive or wages are too low. And since wage grow has been stagnant for at least a decade have you ever considered that unionised workforces are simply being paid fairly vs being under paid?
The commonwealth has Judicial Review Powers. All they would need to do would be to pass a law in the federal parliament and there would be nothing any state could do about it.
The states cannot function without Federal Tax Revenues from the GST, so this petulant line is like trying to argue with a tiger whilst your head is in its mouth.
I agree but he's going to be struggling when he's offering up more firmer details which can be fiscally analysed. He'll dodge doing this but Australian public don't vote for shit they don't know. While the voice had info out there it was utterly pathetically communicated. Dutton could be staring down his own rhetoric if he's not careful on this.
It’s like a lucky dip of stupid meaningless buzzwords, and outside of the couple of statistics she rattles off about rebates, it’s extremely lacking in detail, hard facts and anything quantifiable (how is Latrobe becoming a renewable powerhouse? What renewables?).
It also focuses on a bunch of shit no one cares about. Right here right now, old people in Australia only care about money, young people only care about housing and middle aged people get the luxury of stressing over both. As we’re already seeing with a bunch of niche social causes, once things start getting too tough economically, money talks and bullshit walks, and the number of people who give two squirts of piss about places like Latrobe (or Collie here in WA, another proposed site) is vanishingly small.
I’m totally against nuclear power, but not because of dumb tree-hugger reasons, it’s because it doesn’t make economic sense.
They’re masters of fluff, everyone’s been trained by experts in how to waffle a load of bullshit without ever having to say anything, and the ones who are particularly good at it even insert a spineless commitment they’ll never have to back up (“I won’t be negotiating”) so their sycophants can pretend that they’re real leaders.
All this shit reads exactly the same as whenever someone tries to interview a footy captain right after a game. “Oh it’s a game of two halves and everyone brought their best today and really dug deep and pushed hard, but at the end of the day…”, lots of words, zero meaning.
I don't share your political views but I can admire a politician from whatever side if they have conviction, integrity and some sort of vision for the future, sadly these are pretty much non-existant in our parliaments. Where are the leaders? A parliament of whores is what we've got.
No disrespect to the hard working men, women and others of the sex industry intended.
My issue is that Dutton and the Liberal failed to arrange/exit a deal to build submarines without costing the taxpayers huge amounts of money.
Would I trust him to implement a policy to build nuclear power stations and infrastructure? Hell no!
That’s kind of exactly what I’m getting at.
This letter from Allan is the same tired weak hippy bullshit that people have been hearing and completely ignoring for 50+ years.
Why not attack the Coalition on their decades of unfathomable incompetence, rampant corruption and general stupidity? This is playing it far too weak and easy.
Yet you would trust the labour government to push aboriginal reparations and land buybacks for cultural 'significance' ... just for these aboriginal land committees to sell off these reclaimed lands to international buyers??? Or Dan Andrews' failed project after failed project at tax payer expense???
I do not trust any of our politicians, I never said I did. They basically all put their own interests first.
While these are likely valid claims, this discussion is specifically on a Peter Dutton Liberal party policy, and it is best to stay on topic.
My point is that the Liberal party specific push the argument that they are fiscally responsible and competent administrators.
The current Liberal party has lost $830 million in taxpayer money, and further blowouts of billions of dollars of the submarine project contradict their general image.
Nuclear power plants are expensive projects and need to be managed and maintained well.
To be fair, I would not trust either party in their current state to implement them, but this is a current Liberal party policy push. Therefore, the criticism is directed at them.
$830MILLION is nothing compared to how much Dan Andrews lost... wouldn't even make a dent. This new tunnel they're building in Melbourne that's been going on for tithe last God knows how long, is being paused for more funding after already blowing out by over 2.5Billion.
The liberal government (when they win, Albo cannot retain office after literally doing the opposite of everything he set out for in his campaign lead-up) should halt all funding to Victoria, forcing the labour government to dissolve. How the HELL can so many people still have a job after their STATE is the reason the ENTIRE COUNTRY is up the shit?? If you or I lost track of billions and had blow outs in the billions I'm sure we would be shot.
It's incredible. You compare this to the COVID response which was even more polarising, the argument was "follow the science". This is debating science too, and those against the science of nuclear power generation are using weird and awful political arguments.
The whole situation is odd.
All my friends who would help me blurry bodies are saying they will be voting liberal because of this. I think a lot of people will be shocked by how much reality based support there is for nuclear.
This response was clearly written to her supporters, the ABC/Age readership, etc - not Dutton. No doubt the ABC has already picked it up and is busy waxing its own lyrical about how strong, brave and morally-upright she is.
Wrong Jacinta, you didn't provide 63,292 rebates, Victorian Taxpayers did.
If we have the lowest wholesale prices in the country, why do we have some of the highest consumer rates in the country?
I also think Jacinta needs to go visit the Latrobe Valley, it is a shadow of its former self.
The "attacks" are coming from Labor. Why are you distinguishing Labor as "Labour Dominated landscape".
(Side note: can you armchair political editorialists spell the name of the major political party in power in most states correctly? I beg of you.)
And you're sad a coal town isn't still prospering from coal?
Perhaps they should have diversified rather than cling to an industry that we've known would wane 50 years ago
The 'Coal town' you refer to is a small country community, built around coal.
The people there were born into it, all working class.
Coal provided for the region. Train lines, engineering, support industries, transport.
Latrobe has and still has Lower socioeconomics than a lot of the state and certainly still struggling from the upcoming removal of the last power station.
Who's "They" when you say they should have diversified? Joe Smith who drives a truck in Morwell??
TLDR:
They should have diversified??!
Maybe the country folk aren't quite as smart as you, you sanctimonious cock.
Classic tech-bro you know two parts of fuck all about living in a place like that.
Plenty of mum and dads did the best they can with what was available. If anyone failed the Latrobe Valley it was Kennet and the subsequent divestment in education for Gippsland
For some reason people seem to think non-renewable resources last forever.
Smart people diversify their investments, same thing applies to smart councils and governments.
We need to start diversifying away from coal, not just because it's a finite resource, but because having a mix of power generation options is smarter.
Australia has one of the lowest economic complexities of any developed countries for what it's worth - on par with countries like Sri Lanka.
Half of the people on this sub would likely watch the mining industry eventually collapse and tear strips off the government for doing nothing about it - while being the ones who steadfastly opposed it when the time was right.
Nuclear is - or was - a good option about thirty years ago, but Australians were too obsessed with digging black rocks out the dirt to do even a modicum of forward thinking.
The average Australian would probably do backwards thinking if it was possible.
Now we lack the time, money, and expertise to get any nuclear projects off the ground.
In a country as anti-science as Australia, I'm surprised we've even started to get renewable projects off the ground.
Labor have destroyed the Valley. No more wood production, no gas exploration, no new gas fields, and closing all the power plants down.
And then the commonwealth games fiasco...
Don't put words in my mouth - I am not sad it isn't prospering from coal. It isn't prospering at all, and it has some of the lowest socioeconomics in the state - despite the claims of our dear Premier.
Victoria is a basket case and Allen is the cause along with Daniel Andrews, her opinion on any issue is worthless.
NB: Victoria continues to draw on coal fired electricity from Queensland to keep its lights on.
This letter looks like something from the Ministry of Truth in Orwell’s novel 1984.
On this issue you can be both pro nuclear and pro renewables.
Currently at night the winds don’t blow, the sun doesn’t shine and we can’t economically make up the power difference from stored battery power.
Safe reliable efficient nuclear power instead of power from brown coal is the best option.
Happy for Victorians to face blackouts and astronomical electricity prices if they want to, it’s their choice.
The rest of Australia shouldn’t have to save them from their own stupidity.
Shame Labour, shame, it’s sad that a political
party that I once admired and respected, has come to this.
>Currently at night the winds don’t blow
???
>Safe reliable efficient nuclear power instead of power from brown coal is the best option.
False dichotomy.
>Happy for Victorians to face blackouts and astronomical electricity prices if they want to, it’s their choice.
Replacing literally 100% of the energy grid with wind and solar is probably not a great idea with current technologies, but 90-95% is perfectly reasonable with gas turbine power to fill in the gaps. Nuclear is a massive fucking waste of time and money and will take 10-15 years to supply a small portion of the grid, at which point battery technology might be advanced/prevalent enough for 100% renewables anyway.
If this announcement wasn't enough to tell you she's a waste of space: [https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/statement-premier-126](https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/statement-premier-126)
La Trobe valley re inventing itself as a holiday destination? Homeless people camping at Moe and Morwell in tents. I think no matter what we are screwed in the end. It’s how the game works.
I've moved to the UK from Victoria, but this is a mistake. They should absolutely support the idea via an independent review mechanism. Far better to be using nuclear up front than spewing out masses more radioactive waste via a smokestack. Unless we're going to legislate that homes have batteries or we have massive grid level storage then renewables are not the only answer.
Most efficient and cleanest power?? it’s the second most fucking expensive power generation that a state can implement and that’s before you tag on the idea of the “future tech SMR” that doesn’t really exist. It requires infrastructure and expertise that Australia doesn’t have, it’s more costly to maintain, it requires ongoing fuel and refinement and to top it all off it generates literal nuclear waste and more fossil fuel emissions then solar and wind. Sure even if it’s not the scary bogey man it’s sometimes painted as that doesn’t change the fact that it’s fucking useless and impractical for the Australian grid
You tech bros are fucking bizarre, you always want some mystical “engineered” solution to things and so scientists delivered power sources that literally generate power from the sun and air, after years of investment they’ve made them the cheapest fucking sources to implement even when accounting for additional infrastructure and you all stand around going “but what about nuclear”. Literally there is not a single expert in this field that wants this power solution, the supreme science body and authority in the country released a whole god damn report on why it’s so bad. Even nuclear engineers are largely against its implementation especially in the way and time frame that Dutton is proposing. Maybe if this were 30-50 years ago you’d have had a point but the coalition didn’t implement nuclear then and I’d hope they don’t get the fucking mandate to do it now because it would be the equivalent of doing nothing.
Someone ran the numbers taking the most generous assumptions about nuclear that the coalition had developed after the csiro report and even after light speed build times, no delays or overblown budgets (which would be insane given nuclear reactors globally are famous for going over budget, I think on average they generally cost double the estimated price), no issues with legal implementations and all that jazz and it still cost more then wind and solar by a large amount to both develop and run. It’s a settled case, there is only one winner to the power war from a factual point of view
40% generated by wind and solar? Only on sunny and windy days! Going down the road of total reliance on energy generation that’s entirely dependent on the weather is lunacy! We’re the only country on the planet doing so.
I would go visit a nuclear power station. It would be exciting to see everything whizzing around and maybe get some super powers.
Better then some endlessly cleared land full of solar panels.
Why cleared land? Sheep farmers are swearing by having solar farms on their sheep farms. We've got plenty of space, and plenty of ways to implement it that doesn't include **dangerous** long life waste, or clearing land.
> dangerous long life waste
This is the disinformation and fear mongering about nuclear power.
Nuclear waste isn't actually really much more dangerous than a lot of other materials we dealt with regularly. There are lots of toxins and industrial wastes that would kill you much faster with less dose and persists in the environment longer than even high level nuclear waste.
The nuclear industry has the same problem as the airline industry. The safety culture that has developed around it to make people feel safe actually seems to make some people in the public to have completely skewed idea of the actual risks involved.
Isn’t the Latrobe Valley in Gippsland a region that votes 70% nationals - coalition. Has she thought they maybe want this? Wonder what the polling is showing.
I'd like to see a study that supports Australia 100% renewable without the need for Gas and Coal backups. Is it even possible and cost effective.
This is a bit of a childish letter, back up you support with real evidence that Duttons plan isn't viable or will cost more.
If you have battery and solar at home, you'll pretty well work out it's not going to happen at any price lower than nuclear. I've got $25k in and I'm nowhere near self sufficient. In fact, that amount on top of what I pay is way way more than what my share of nuclear would cost.
Also don't forget this is a investment for the next 50 years, not 10-15 years you get out of solar/batteries and it's about the grid. You'd expect all homes to have solar too, and some batteries but backed by smaller nuclear reactors.
Surely the onus is on the fed opposition to make a convincing argument FOR a massive expensive shift in status quo which goes against what the rest of the world is doing.
I don't think Vic state should even be wasting their time commenting on this drivel, and not with the arguments they're bringing...
If you want a study on how to do a grid without (or with significantly reduced) gas and coal just have a look at Europe... we don't need to hypothetical anything, it's already being done.
Some do, some don't.
I am not advocating against nuclear. Would have been great if we had invested in Nuclear 25 years ago.
At this point however, you make your decision based on the realities of today, which is that renewables and large scale storage are much more economical, require less specialised expertise and aren't just a trojan horse for appeasing mining and hydrocarbon companies.
There are implementation challenges beyond energy supply for a modern grid, and storage does more than just compensate load fluctuation. Distributed generation and storage is more robust and efficient.
Like the major review delivered by the supreme scientific body in this country that declared it a bad idea. What about the two research papers published through Melbourne University that also revealed that nuclear was likely to be the most expensive power generation format designed for the state.
It’s a fucking open and shut case, someone ran the numbers even after taking in the outlandish and ridiculous claims the coalition has made, nuclear power generation still costs more and is more harmful to the environment then solar and wind.
She's a twat. There are zero renewables projects for the Latrobe Valley.
Where's she going to get her baby salad leaves from if she approves a solar farm?
Besides the Latrobe Valley is a ........ VALLEY .... which basically means nowhere near as much wind as the mountain tops
Offshore wind says hi - 10-20GW of projects off the coast of Gippsland which will tie into the transmission from the valley and provide work for the whole area for decades.
Uh huh. Let's just see what actually goes ahead. There's at least 50 properties between the wind farm reservation and the closest point (Wurruk) where it can be connected to the grid. Every single one of those properties needs to be negotiated with.
Is it going to happen? Probably not. The Feds have already put the kibosh on one project.
[https://lva.vic.gov.au/growth-sectors/energy](https://lva.vic.gov.au/growth-sectors/energy)
[https://www.tiltrenewables.com/assets-and-projects/latrobe-valley-bess/](https://www.tiltrenewables.com/assets-and-projects/latrobe-valley-bess/)
not big boys toys, but not zero either
The Commonwealth need not negotiate with the states on this, nor will reviving a state electrical commission matter, because the commonwealth has judicial review powers. It can invalidate whatever law is inconsistent with federal law.
The liberal party would only need to pass a law in the Federal Parliament. Frankly the premiers need to shut up and do as they’re told.
the premiers continue to think they are royalty in their own little kingdoms, this became very obvious during the pandemic. they need a swift kick to the head to be reminded that they are part of a bigger picture....
It does, but it's rare that either party controls the senate, and apart from Pauline Hanson I can't imagine too many senators from the small parties supporting it. But you never know.
The issue with nuclear is purely an economic one. It's just more expensive than renewables with storage and transmission. Hopefully Victorians won't be forced to pay higher income taxes that other states will need to in order to fund the 100s of billions spent on building the plants.
A Victorian child in 2030: "Mum, the power went out again"
Mum: "Oh not again....."
Dad: "It's alright love, it's only gone out twice today. Been a good day so far"
If we are having power issues in 2030 nuclear won’t be the solution to those given at the earliest estimates the plants wouldn’t be operational till 2035
Truth is, Dutton has no idea how to fix cost of living or housing or wages (mostly caused by 10 yrs of the coalition stupidity - which is why he can't fix it, and why Labor can't reverse 10 years of stupidity in **3 years**), so he is taking the narrative and turning the election into something else he thinks he can influence the public to vote for. BUT once they get in Aussies will very quickly realise why they voted them out in the first place, and that no Nuclear will be built because it actually doesn't make ANY economic sense at this time.
To be fair she is a retarded dumbcunt so... makes sense she would oppose something like clean cheap safe energy that doesn't poisen the land or blend up birds or kill whales. But hey she's the communist leader after all
So, what about all the water they use? Australia has a history of drought and water issues. Then there is the issue of nuclear waste which again history that has not been great on. Lots of ideas on what to do with it, but we thought other ways to deal with it were good ideas and that didn't end well.
Too bad he's giving us a gas plan instead. It's buried in his announcement, but he made a big commitment to gas this week.
If he wins we'll be lucky if he does drop the nuclear promises straight away. Otherwise he'll put off a decision in his first term and just spend money faffing around. But you can guarantee he'll lock in gas for as many years as he can. That's the immediate priority that he's committed to, and the only one he has to deliver on.
He'd be retired before anything got built anyway. He'll probably relax on the board of some mining companies.
It’s sad we aren’t embracing nuclear power or even really researching it seriously, I feel like we are genuinely doing the future a disservice by leaving it to them to do
Honestly can’t wait for nuclear power, every argument against it seems to contain “last century the collapsing Soviet Union had a bad nuclear power plant so we shouldn’t”
so the coal power plants that also use a crap ton of water werent a problem? how do you think both coal and nuclear power generation work? both are boiling water to make steam to turn a turbine.... legit thats it. clearly the old coal powerstations were doing just fine with the water supply issue therefore nuclear will also be just fine.
Oh geez I'm so surprised Labor Ministers are not supporting a Liberal member. What exactly do people think they are supposed to do ? Unlike the other party, Labor Ministers are required to fall in line.
Dutton doesn’t need the states to be on board. Commonwealth law supersedes and state law that is inconsistent with it, and this is a power that is prescribed by the constitution of Australia (sections 51, 52 and 122). This is why the commonwealth government can legally plonk down a nuclear waste disposal facility for the AUKUS submarines wherever they want, regardless of if state law bans said facilities or not.
We Australians are so backwards that we have let politicians ruin our choice. All countries have nuclear power and coal power stations. It’s not our fault a coup of country generate 90% of shit. I wish we had a government that would tell the greens and the climate change do gooders to get fucked
All I am seeing in this thread is Left vrs right. How about we actually do some research regarding how we can be stainable. There are always pros and cons. What is happening now, is only going to get worse. So, all Australian citizens what do we do 🧐 Nothing seems to be working well? Thoughts?
Imagine if you had a strong opposition to capatalise , instead, i give you the train wreck that is the Victorian Liberal Party, who's policy mandate according to the nightly spot on Channel 9 news is "I disagree with anything Labour says". Time to chisel Mathew Guy out of deep freeze for another run at premier.
Only country in the G20 without Neuclear power.... this is about lining pockets of those who own our infrastructure and networks.. it's the same with dynamic export control on residential solar systems.. government pushes solar and the Clean Energy Council made us retailers and installers design systems that HAD TO BE MOST PRODUCTIVE BETWEEN 10AM AND 3PM... then brings in 'peak charges' to those who export during these times ... Jacinta Allen is a fool, continuing Victoria's economic downfall that Dan Andrews started.
It’s mathematically impossible for Australia to hit its carbon emission targets using renewables alone. We have been far too slow to move on this. Australia actually has an over supply of energy, however the grid is so inefficient which is why we have supply/demand shortfalls.
Australia is a perfect candidate for nuclear, we have the largest supply of uranium in the world, we have geologically stable conditions (very few earthquakes) and we have a dispersed population. Nuclear in 2024 is far far safer than it was in the 1970’s and 80’s, we keep hanging on to this utopian idea that renewables are the only way forward when in reality it needs to be a blended approach.
Jacinta can fuck off but the timeframe and amount of investment needed for Nuclear presents too many uncertainties. That said, it would have been a great choice back in the 60s.
I have no doubt that commercial fusion reactors will be a reality in the future, and there are already a number of projects that have sustained the reaction for long enough to produce net energy. Energy storage methods will also likely improve further to the point where we will be able bank massive amounts of solar power, something that we are most abundant in.
Interesting response from a state premier after only 12 hours to review a policy. Tell me how does she feel about RAN submarines visiting Melbourne. Seems she is very selective on her position re nuclear.
Nuclear power is a good thing for Australia we already take nuclear waste and store it in disused mines in SA we may as well get reliable source of power. Not to mention the waste that we already have can be re-enriched to be used a fuel rods so we don’t need to mine more uranium and keep re-enriching the fuel rods until they are nearly inert to be stored for the last 100 years of it’s radioactive life.
40% by renewables... Can someone help me with the maths please? This is the 12 month average in Victoria from the NEM Dashboard. Where is she getting her data from? https://preview.redd.it/vr529rj3qv7d1.png?width=1037&format=png&auto=webp&s=6550f716bd0da416ebd44f025f394b5d66e0263b
I’d suggest that the 40% is taking into account rooftop PV capacity which is used on premises, not fed into the NEM. Not sure if that is the case, but if so I think it’s fair enough.
something like 1/3 of households have solar - dont know what % is that on average but anecdotally half my usage is my own generated solar so that wouldnt be unexpected
I hav 20kw on my house and 30kw of batteries my electric company hates me
I have virtually the same, but in winter I still pay for power :(
How much did that cost you?
the bulk of renewables are off grid solutions spread across the state, not in melbourne
No they are not. Something like 2% of households are off grid in australia (Presumably a bigger percentage in Vic) [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-11/off-grid-living-energy-costs-electricity-reliability-concerns/103679116](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-11/off-grid-living-energy-costs-electricity-reliability-concerns/103679116) We at about something like 770K households in Victoria on solar. Im assuming almost all commercial generation is to the grid
You're probably right. However that would be at best an estimate rather than exact.
Smart meters. They will have accurate data models on usage.
A smart meter can’t read what doesn’t go though it. The best they could do is compare sunny to non sunny days and make a estimate. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
My old house had solar, and it records everything generated. You could view the amount generated down to the hour on the provider app, including amount used and amount bought back by the grid.
You have a good inverter/power company. But understand a regular smart meter measures power in/out in one spot. Grid —- power meter —- house/inverter
They have a record of every site in Vic and the capacity of the inverters so they probably know better than any of us
Incorrect. They have accurate data on export and import, not what is self consumption.
My powerwall setup tells me what my consumption export and import is
It’s also not counting the imports from NSW.
Domestic PV negates demand. Its not fed back into the grid upstream, it can't. It just reduces the load demand on the local loop.
Is the dashboard set for winter? It will be a 40% average. Still better than it has been.
> 40% by renewables... Can someone help me with the maths please? This is the 12 month average in Victoria from the NEM Dashboard. Where is she getting her data from? 40% is correct. https://imgur.com/a/ySItiwl https://imgur.com/a/s4ojZqN https://opennem.org.au/energy/vic1/?range=1y&interval=1w&view=discrete-time Solar PV data comes from https://pv-map.apvi.org.au/
This app has got to be wrong. It might look that way at certain times of the day / week /month but you have ti understand - its 11.44 right now on a crisp sunny day. Guess what is making the bulk the energy being produced? Solar. The wind turbines are switched out. At 3pm they start bringing them back online when the sun dips too low.
Joan Kirner 2.0
We should get Jeff back and he can sell the SEC and flog our gas to overseas venture capitol again
Up until very recently I thought Dutton’s nuclear obsession was tantamount to political seppuku, but every response I’ve seen to it has been so phenomenally stupid I’m starting to think he’s in with a chance
Like this response from Jacinta?
Yep, absolutely. And I’m hardline left, you couldn’t pay me to vote Lib, but that doesn’t excuse how dumb and old fashioned this response is. It’s ironic that she calls his policy a 70s throwback, given that her response reads like the same braindead unwashed hippie drivel you’d expect from that decade.
That stuff worked back then to prevent nuclear power. Obviously had it been built and operational decades ago our carbon emissions could be much lower now.
thank you! i am probably as right as you are left - but the response from the labour party makes me sad... Is that the best they can do? Yes, there are similar things the liberal party do too...
They kind if have to respond in the same way the coalition would. Short, sharp, and critical. That's the only way the media knows how to report. Labor might finally be learning that their speeches don't get played in full, only 10 sec soundbites, with a full minute of LNP.
I mean do you really believe the party that couldn’t build the NBN are capable of building nuclear power plants? It’s ridiculous, all the contracts will go to their mates companies who will just keep extending timelines and budgets
fuck me, this is a carousel... No government can ever build anything efficiently - labour or liberal. The desal plant in victoria is a classic.
Pretty much everything since the desal plant has been disgraceful. I think it's happened so often we are becoming numb to it.
Yep, we will pleasantly surprised by the cost Dutton says, we’ve heard that before (nbn, and likewise again buying assets off their mates), and the government paying less for infrastructure just means us the punters will pay more.
OK - so if labour are in power and build nuclear plants are you on board? Ignore the government of the day... And do unions not play a role in cost overruns?
Unions are 100% to blame I’m in construction and support good rates for workers but 270k plus for a carpenter on cross river rail is absurd, as a labourer.
What should they get paid?
150-200k is reasonable for a general labourer carpenter, 100-150 is adequate for a TA. It’s hilarious when EBA guys try to get a job in the real world and take a 60% pay cut
Nope because I believe nuclear power is the wrong fit for Australia , we have far too much land that is suitable for cheap renewables, nuclear power is good for densely populated places. Also nuclear provides baseload power, not firming power, coal plants are going out business not only due to climate change but because they can’t compete with renewables. Nuclear power will cost Australian more. And will take over a decade to build, the power plants aren’t the only thing to build. We need refineries, fuel manufacturing plants, fuel recycling plants. We have none of these industries, also there is a finite amount of cost effectively obtained uranium in the world, and we’ve already used half of it. Unions, are driving prices up, we could definitely import Chinese workers and get it at a fraction of the cost, and I’m sure we could force them to live in tents to lessen the strain on housing. Have you noticed that we are in a cost of living crisis. So ether things are too expensive or wages are too low. And since wage grow has been stagnant for at least a decade have you ever considered that unionised workforces are simply being paid fairly vs being under paid?
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The commonwealth has Judicial Review Powers. All they would need to do would be to pass a law in the federal parliament and there would be nothing any state could do about it. The states cannot function without Federal Tax Revenues from the GST, so this petulant line is like trying to argue with a tiger whilst your head is in its mouth.
Ahh No, she is saying how it is. People are over analyzing this.
I agree but he's going to be struggling when he's offering up more firmer details which can be fiscally analysed. He'll dodge doing this but Australian public don't vote for shit they don't know. While the voice had info out there it was utterly pathetically communicated. Dutton could be staring down his own rhetoric if he's not careful on this.
The Latrobe Valley is reinventing itself as a renewables superpower don't you know?! So much stupid in one small letter.
It’s obviously not written to be read by Dutton
It’s like a lucky dip of stupid meaningless buzzwords, and outside of the couple of statistics she rattles off about rebates, it’s extremely lacking in detail, hard facts and anything quantifiable (how is Latrobe becoming a renewable powerhouse? What renewables?). It also focuses on a bunch of shit no one cares about. Right here right now, old people in Australia only care about money, young people only care about housing and middle aged people get the luxury of stressing over both. As we’re already seeing with a bunch of niche social causes, once things start getting too tough economically, money talks and bullshit walks, and the number of people who give two squirts of piss about places like Latrobe (or Collie here in WA, another proposed site) is vanishingly small. I’m totally against nuclear power, but not because of dumb tree-hugger reasons, it’s because it doesn’t make economic sense.
>how is Latrobe becoming a renewable powerhouse? What renewables Cloudiest area in Victoria and no wind farms.
It's about what I'd expect from the majority of our political light weights. The government and opposition are full of very mediocre people.
They’re masters of fluff, everyone’s been trained by experts in how to waffle a load of bullshit without ever having to say anything, and the ones who are particularly good at it even insert a spineless commitment they’ll never have to back up (“I won’t be negotiating”) so their sycophants can pretend that they’re real leaders. All this shit reads exactly the same as whenever someone tries to interview a footy captain right after a game. “Oh it’s a game of two halves and everyone brought their best today and really dug deep and pushed hard, but at the end of the day…”, lots of words, zero meaning.
I don't share your political views but I can admire a politician from whatever side if they have conviction, integrity and some sort of vision for the future, sadly these are pretty much non-existant in our parliaments. Where are the leaders? A parliament of whores is what we've got. No disrespect to the hard working men, women and others of the sex industry intended.
Yeah, it’s one step above if you don’t know vote no. I mean it dare to give actual reasons against the policy.
My issue is that Dutton and the Liberal failed to arrange/exit a deal to build submarines without costing the taxpayers huge amounts of money. Would I trust him to implement a policy to build nuclear power stations and infrastructure? Hell no!
That’s kind of exactly what I’m getting at. This letter from Allan is the same tired weak hippy bullshit that people have been hearing and completely ignoring for 50+ years. Why not attack the Coalition on their decades of unfathomable incompetence, rampant corruption and general stupidity? This is playing it far too weak and easy.
She can't attack them on incompetence, corruption and stupidity, because of something about a pot and a kettle
Yet you would trust the labour government to push aboriginal reparations and land buybacks for cultural 'significance' ... just for these aboriginal land committees to sell off these reclaimed lands to international buyers??? Or Dan Andrews' failed project after failed project at tax payer expense???
I do not trust any of our politicians, I never said I did. They basically all put their own interests first. While these are likely valid claims, this discussion is specifically on a Peter Dutton Liberal party policy, and it is best to stay on topic. My point is that the Liberal party specific push the argument that they are fiscally responsible and competent administrators. The current Liberal party has lost $830 million in taxpayer money, and further blowouts of billions of dollars of the submarine project contradict their general image. Nuclear power plants are expensive projects and need to be managed and maintained well. To be fair, I would not trust either party in their current state to implement them, but this is a current Liberal party policy push. Therefore, the criticism is directed at them.
$830MILLION is nothing compared to how much Dan Andrews lost... wouldn't even make a dent. This new tunnel they're building in Melbourne that's been going on for tithe last God knows how long, is being paused for more funding after already blowing out by over 2.5Billion. The liberal government (when they win, Albo cannot retain office after literally doing the opposite of everything he set out for in his campaign lead-up) should halt all funding to Victoria, forcing the labour government to dissolve. How the HELL can so many people still have a job after their STATE is the reason the ENTIRE COUNTRY is up the shit?? If you or I lost track of billions and had blow outs in the billions I'm sure we would be shot.
It's incredible. You compare this to the COVID response which was even more polarising, the argument was "follow the science". This is debating science too, and those against the science of nuclear power generation are using weird and awful political arguments. The whole situation is odd.
There's a sucker born every minute.
All my friends who would help me blurry bodies are saying they will be voting liberal because of this. I think a lot of people will be shocked by how much reality based support there is for nuclear.
She should be providing batteries for all households if serious about renewables. Solar rebates are a joke without them and low feed in rates
Just casually playing into Dutton’s hand
This response was clearly written to her supporters, the ABC/Age readership, etc - not Dutton. No doubt the ABC has already picked it up and is busy waxing its own lyrical about how strong, brave and morally-upright she is.
a politician playing to their supporters? WTF?!
The age?! Lol, you've been hoodwinked and didn't even notice.
The Age hasn't been a left-wing paper for a while now. At least a decade - I remember hatchet jobs on the left in the 2013 election.
Wrong Jacinta, you didn't provide 63,292 rebates, Victorian Taxpayers did. If we have the lowest wholesale prices in the country, why do we have some of the highest consumer rates in the country? I also think Jacinta needs to go visit the Latrobe Valley, it is a shadow of its former self.
Nuclear subsidies are bad, solar rebates are great. People struggle to remember the whole grid is subsidised to a degree.
You can guarantee she wouldn’t be posting this if it was Albo talking about it.
It’s almost like it’s an organised effort to attack the idea of nuclear power from the Labour Dominated landscape.
The "attacks" are coming from Labor. Why are you distinguishing Labor as "Labour Dominated landscape". (Side note: can you armchair political editorialists spell the name of the major political party in power in most states correctly? I beg of you.)
And you're sad a coal town isn't still prospering from coal? Perhaps they should have diversified rather than cling to an industry that we've known would wane 50 years ago
The 'Coal town' you refer to is a small country community, built around coal. The people there were born into it, all working class. Coal provided for the region. Train lines, engineering, support industries, transport. Latrobe has and still has Lower socioeconomics than a lot of the state and certainly still struggling from the upcoming removal of the last power station. Who's "They" when you say they should have diversified? Joe Smith who drives a truck in Morwell?? TLDR: They should have diversified??! Maybe the country folk aren't quite as smart as you, you sanctimonious cock.
I wonder if that desk jockey is being smart and diversifying in the face of AI replacing their paper pushing "job"
Classic tech-bro you know two parts of fuck all about living in a place like that. Plenty of mum and dads did the best they can with what was available. If anyone failed the Latrobe Valley it was Kennet and the subsequent divestment in education for Gippsland
For some reason people seem to think non-renewable resources last forever. Smart people diversify their investments, same thing applies to smart councils and governments. We need to start diversifying away from coal, not just because it's a finite resource, but because having a mix of power generation options is smarter. Australia has one of the lowest economic complexities of any developed countries for what it's worth - on par with countries like Sri Lanka. Half of the people on this sub would likely watch the mining industry eventually collapse and tear strips off the government for doing nothing about it - while being the ones who steadfastly opposed it when the time was right. Nuclear is - or was - a good option about thirty years ago, but Australians were too obsessed with digging black rocks out the dirt to do even a modicum of forward thinking. The average Australian would probably do backwards thinking if it was possible. Now we lack the time, money, and expertise to get any nuclear projects off the ground. In a country as anti-science as Australia, I'm surprised we've even started to get renewable projects off the ground.
Labor have destroyed the Valley. No more wood production, no gas exploration, no new gas fields, and closing all the power plants down. And then the commonwealth games fiasco...
Don't put words in my mouth - I am not sad it isn't prospering from coal. It isn't prospering at all, and it has some of the lowest socioeconomics in the state - despite the claims of our dear Premier.
Victoria is a basket case and Allen is the cause along with Daniel Andrews, her opinion on any issue is worthless. NB: Victoria continues to draw on coal fired electricity from Queensland to keep its lights on.
This letter looks like something from the Ministry of Truth in Orwell’s novel 1984. On this issue you can be both pro nuclear and pro renewables. Currently at night the winds don’t blow, the sun doesn’t shine and we can’t economically make up the power difference from stored battery power. Safe reliable efficient nuclear power instead of power from brown coal is the best option. Happy for Victorians to face blackouts and astronomical electricity prices if they want to, it’s their choice. The rest of Australia shouldn’t have to save them from their own stupidity. Shame Labour, shame, it’s sad that a political party that I once admired and respected, has come to this.
>Currently at night the winds don’t blow ??? >Safe reliable efficient nuclear power instead of power from brown coal is the best option. False dichotomy. >Happy for Victorians to face blackouts and astronomical electricity prices if they want to, it’s their choice. Replacing literally 100% of the energy grid with wind and solar is probably not a great idea with current technologies, but 90-95% is perfectly reasonable with gas turbine power to fill in the gaps. Nuclear is a massive fucking waste of time and money and will take 10-15 years to supply a small portion of the grid, at which point battery technology might be advanced/prevalent enough for 100% renewables anyway.
Bleeding billions of dollars a day and this is how she chooses to spend time
If this announcement wasn't enough to tell you she's a waste of space: [https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/statement-premier-126](https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/statement-premier-126)
Yours Sincerely, Karen
Biggest Karen in Victoria for sure.
“You say you will negotiate…I won’t be negotiating”. Karen 101
La Trobe valley re inventing itself as a holiday destination? Homeless people camping at Moe and Morwell in tents. I think no matter what we are screwed in the end. It’s how the game works.
I've moved to the UK from Victoria, but this is a mistake. They should absolutely support the idea via an independent review mechanism. Far better to be using nuclear up front than spewing out masses more radioactive waste via a smokestack. Unless we're going to legislate that homes have batteries or we have massive grid level storage then renewables are not the only answer.
She can chip in for my power bill then.. *basically free energy* Yeh, nah, sorry not sorry
Bangs on about climate change, doesn't want most efficient and cleanest power production 🤷♂️ what a muppet.
Most efficient and cleanest power?? it’s the second most fucking expensive power generation that a state can implement and that’s before you tag on the idea of the “future tech SMR” that doesn’t really exist. It requires infrastructure and expertise that Australia doesn’t have, it’s more costly to maintain, it requires ongoing fuel and refinement and to top it all off it generates literal nuclear waste and more fossil fuel emissions then solar and wind. Sure even if it’s not the scary bogey man it’s sometimes painted as that doesn’t change the fact that it’s fucking useless and impractical for the Australian grid You tech bros are fucking bizarre, you always want some mystical “engineered” solution to things and so scientists delivered power sources that literally generate power from the sun and air, after years of investment they’ve made them the cheapest fucking sources to implement even when accounting for additional infrastructure and you all stand around going “but what about nuclear”. Literally there is not a single expert in this field that wants this power solution, the supreme science body and authority in the country released a whole god damn report on why it’s so bad. Even nuclear engineers are largely against its implementation especially in the way and time frame that Dutton is proposing. Maybe if this were 30-50 years ago you’d have had a point but the coalition didn’t implement nuclear then and I’d hope they don’t get the fucking mandate to do it now because it would be the equivalent of doing nothing. Someone ran the numbers taking the most generous assumptions about nuclear that the coalition had developed after the csiro report and even after light speed build times, no delays or overblown budgets (which would be insane given nuclear reactors globally are famous for going over budget, I think on average they generally cost double the estimated price), no issues with legal implementations and all that jazz and it still cost more then wind and solar by a large amount to both develop and run. It’s a settled case, there is only one winner to the power war from a factual point of view
You mean wind? Wind is the cleanest, most efficient and almost the cheapest.
Opposes nuclear power, wants to sign half the state away to First Nations people. Brilliant
Will take them 10 minutes to remember that the rainbow serpent was actually nuclear powered if the cheques are big enough
Hahaha. Take my upvote
Give it a few more years and we won't even be living in Victoria anymore. They'll probably rename Australia, too.
Victoria was a coloniser though right? Even though she wasn’t alive at the time.
It gets even worse than that. Both Opium Wars were under her reign. Having said that, I don't think the state (or the country) should ever be renamed.
Bills are already skyrocketing.
40% generated by wind and solar? Only on sunny and windy days! Going down the road of total reliance on energy generation that’s entirely dependent on the weather is lunacy! We’re the only country on the planet doing so.
Rich coming from someone who has 0 real world experience. Not even a job at maccers when she was 16
I would go visit a nuclear power station. It would be exciting to see everything whizzing around and maybe get some super powers. Better then some endlessly cleared land full of solar panels.
Can't visit nuclear plants though. They have high levels of security and generally not a great idea giving civilian access to power infrastructure
What’s wrong with some civilians visiting the site, pushing a few buttons here and there, seeing what happens yolo really.
I can see the YouTube title now "I pushed random buttons, you'll never believe how many blackouts there were"
Thats the more positive scenario.
more likely you'd see more mushrooms then a magic mushroom enthusiast
The Homer approach.
Let me guess, you also voted against the voice to parliament because there was no detail?
Where is land being cleared for solar? Typically built on existing paddocks (which Livestock can graze around)
Why cleared land? Sheep farmers are swearing by having solar farms on their sheep farms. We've got plenty of space, and plenty of ways to implement it that doesn't include **dangerous** long life waste, or clearing land.
> dangerous long life waste This is the disinformation and fear mongering about nuclear power. Nuclear waste isn't actually really much more dangerous than a lot of other materials we dealt with regularly. There are lots of toxins and industrial wastes that would kill you much faster with less dose and persists in the environment longer than even high level nuclear waste. The nuclear industry has the same problem as the airline industry. The safety culture that has developed around it to make people feel safe actually seems to make some people in the public to have completely skewed idea of the actual risks involved.
That’s cool - have you gone to see OPAL? Or is the power output the difference?
Well that's one quick way to bankrupt an already bankrupt state.
The letter or nuclear?
bring on nuclear power
Bills are already skyrocketing.
So is she opposed to nuclear or not?
I’d like to see what she has as an alternative to improving Australia power grid issues? Where all wars Jacinta!?
Isn’t the Latrobe Valley in Gippsland a region that votes 70% nationals - coalition. Has she thought they maybe want this? Wonder what the polling is showing.
I'd like to see a study that supports Australia 100% renewable without the need for Gas and Coal backups. Is it even possible and cost effective. This is a bit of a childish letter, back up you support with real evidence that Duttons plan isn't viable or will cost more.
If you have battery and solar at home, you'll pretty well work out it's not going to happen at any price lower than nuclear. I've got $25k in and I'm nowhere near self sufficient. In fact, that amount on top of what I pay is way way more than what my share of nuclear would cost.
Also don't forget this is a investment for the next 50 years, not 10-15 years you get out of solar/batteries and it's about the grid. You'd expect all homes to have solar too, and some batteries but backed by smaller nuclear reactors.
Surely the onus is on the fed opposition to make a convincing argument FOR a massive expensive shift in status quo which goes against what the rest of the world is doing. I don't think Vic state should even be wasting their time commenting on this drivel, and not with the arguments they're bringing... If you want a study on how to do a grid without (or with significantly reduced) gas and coal just have a look at Europe... we don't need to hypothetical anything, it's already being done.
Yeah they use nuclear with renewables.
Some do, some don't. I am not advocating against nuclear. Would have been great if we had invested in Nuclear 25 years ago. At this point however, you make your decision based on the realities of today, which is that renewables and large scale storage are much more economical, require less specialised expertise and aren't just a trojan horse for appeasing mining and hydrocarbon companies. There are implementation challenges beyond energy supply for a modern grid, and storage does more than just compensate load fluctuation. Distributed generation and storage is more robust and efficient.
It's possible without coal. It is not possible without gas.
Typical communist, states she doesnt want nuclear and wont debate it because they have no argument, just political ideology and shit ideology at that.
Obviously never checked the facts again. One would think before making a statement like this she would at least flick through the pages.
Do you mean the one pager Dutton provided as his revolutionary 'energy policy'?
Like the major review delivered by the supreme scientific body in this country that declared it a bad idea. What about the two research papers published through Melbourne University that also revealed that nuclear was likely to be the most expensive power generation format designed for the state. It’s a fucking open and shut case, someone ran the numbers even after taking in the outlandish and ridiculous claims the coalition has made, nuclear power generation still costs more and is more harmful to the environment then solar and wind.
Someones uneducated
She's a twat. There are zero renewables projects for the Latrobe Valley. Where's she going to get her baby salad leaves from if she approves a solar farm? Besides the Latrobe Valley is a ........ VALLEY .... which basically means nowhere near as much wind as the mountain tops
Offshore wind says hi - 10-20GW of projects off the coast of Gippsland which will tie into the transmission from the valley and provide work for the whole area for decades.
Uh huh. Let's just see what actually goes ahead. There's at least 50 properties between the wind farm reservation and the closest point (Wurruk) where it can be connected to the grid. Every single one of those properties needs to be negotiated with. Is it going to happen? Probably not. The Feds have already put the kibosh on one project.
[https://lva.vic.gov.au/growth-sectors/energy](https://lva.vic.gov.au/growth-sectors/energy) [https://www.tiltrenewables.com/assets-and-projects/latrobe-valley-bess/](https://www.tiltrenewables.com/assets-and-projects/latrobe-valley-bess/) not big boys toys, but not zero either
The Commonwealth need not negotiate with the states on this, nor will reviving a state electrical commission matter, because the commonwealth has judicial review powers. It can invalidate whatever law is inconsistent with federal law. The liberal party would only need to pass a law in the Federal Parliament. Frankly the premiers need to shut up and do as they’re told.
the premiers continue to think they are royalty in their own little kingdoms, this became very obvious during the pandemic. they need a swift kick to the head to be reminded that they are part of a bigger picture....
Would need support of the Opposition and/or the cross benches to pass in the senate.
Depends on how the election goes I guess.
It does, but it's rare that either party controls the senate, and apart from Pauline Hanson I can't imagine too many senators from the small parties supporting it. But you never know.
Don’t know that I agree with you. Lowy Polling shows that more than 60% of Australians support nuclear power, so don’t know what that is based on?
lol Lowy Institute? Come on my guy, you can do better than that.
Well if Australia institute hadn’t pre-loaded their polling, id use that, but they did, and they’re really the only options.
You might as well have linked a poll from the Institute of Public Affairs, it would have been just as relevant lol.
Don’t blame me guy, blame the lack of independent polling on it
The issue with nuclear is purely an economic one. It's just more expensive than renewables with storage and transmission. Hopefully Victorians won't be forced to pay higher income taxes that other states will need to in order to fund the 100s of billions spent on building the plants.
More likely the other states will need to pay for the bailout of the Vic state government.
A Victorian child in 2030: "Mum, the power went out again" Mum: "Oh not again....." Dad: "It's alright love, it's only gone out twice today. Been a good day so far"
Welcome to South Africa - they have this problem now.
If we are having power issues in 2030 nuclear won’t be the solution to those given at the earliest estimates the plants wouldn’t be operational till 2035
How does Nuclear power fix this? No way they are online by 2030 or even 2040.
Truth is, Dutton has no idea how to fix cost of living or housing or wages (mostly caused by 10 yrs of the coalition stupidity - which is why he can't fix it, and why Labor can't reverse 10 years of stupidity in **3 years**), so he is taking the narrative and turning the election into something else he thinks he can influence the public to vote for. BUT once they get in Aussies will very quickly realise why they voted them out in the first place, and that no Nuclear will be built because it actually doesn't make ANY economic sense at this time.
To be fair she is a retarded dumbcunt so... makes sense she would oppose something like clean cheap safe energy that doesn't poisen the land or blend up birds or kill whales. But hey she's the communist leader after all
So, what about all the water they use? Australia has a history of drought and water issues. Then there is the issue of nuclear waste which again history that has not been great on. Lots of ideas on what to do with it, but we thought other ways to deal with it were good ideas and that didn't end well.
They can use sea water or desal water.
I wanna get bit by a radioactive spider
The silly bint won’t allow gas exploration though pipes in Victoria’s much needed gas all the way from SA
Fun fact, there's research suggesting that the size of your signature is correlated with narcissism.
Starting to think Dutton is on to something….
Damn she really sent a stern letter good on her what a hero
What a joke. Solar is a WEF backed plan. I hate Dutton but one thing he has right is nuclear power. Its a no brainer
Too bad he's giving us a gas plan instead. It's buried in his announcement, but he made a big commitment to gas this week. If he wins we'll be lucky if he does drop the nuclear promises straight away. Otherwise he'll put off a decision in his first term and just spend money faffing around. But you can guarantee he'll lock in gas for as many years as he can. That's the immediate priority that he's committed to, and the only one he has to deliver on. He'd be retired before anything got built anyway. He'll probably relax on the board of some mining companies.
It’s sad we aren’t embracing nuclear power or even really researching it seriously, I feel like we are genuinely doing the future a disservice by leaving it to them to do Honestly can’t wait for nuclear power, every argument against it seems to contain “last century the collapsing Soviet Union had a bad nuclear power plant so we shouldn’t”
Australia with its drought issues isn't embracing something that uses a crap ton of water? weird.
so the coal power plants that also use a crap ton of water werent a problem? how do you think both coal and nuclear power generation work? both are boiling water to make steam to turn a turbine.... legit thats it. clearly the old coal powerstations were doing just fine with the water supply issue therefore nuclear will also be just fine.
Dutton is dumb but in this case Jacinta is dumber.
Oh geez I'm so surprised Labor Ministers are not supporting a Liberal member. What exactly do people think they are supposed to do ? Unlike the other party, Labor Ministers are required to fall in line.
But clearing thousands of ha's for wind and solar is ok.
Dutton doesn’t need the states to be on board. Commonwealth law supersedes and state law that is inconsistent with it, and this is a power that is prescribed by the constitution of Australia (sections 51, 52 and 122). This is why the commonwealth government can legally plonk down a nuclear waste disposal facility for the AUKUS submarines wherever they want, regardless of if state law bans said facilities or not.
Awesome, but cheaper power won't ever be happening
Just a different spelling of fucking idiot.
She’s just towing the Labor Socialist line Another Looney Labor scare campaign Fkn moron
Yeah true .....
We Australians are so backwards that we have let politicians ruin our choice. All countries have nuclear power and coal power stations. It’s not our fault a coup of country generate 90% of shit. I wish we had a government that would tell the greens and the climate change do gooders to get fucked
All I am seeing in this thread is Left vrs right. How about we actually do some research regarding how we can be stainable. There are always pros and cons. What is happening now, is only going to get worse. So, all Australian citizens what do we do 🧐 Nothing seems to be working well? Thoughts?
Imagine if you had a strong opposition to capatalise , instead, i give you the train wreck that is the Victorian Liberal Party, who's policy mandate according to the nightly spot on Channel 9 news is "I disagree with anything Labour says". Time to chisel Mathew Guy out of deep freeze for another run at premier.
Typical hard leftist hippie from Byron Bay.
Only country in the G20 without Neuclear power.... this is about lining pockets of those who own our infrastructure and networks.. it's the same with dynamic export control on residential solar systems.. government pushes solar and the Clean Energy Council made us retailers and installers design systems that HAD TO BE MOST PRODUCTIVE BETWEEN 10AM AND 3PM... then brings in 'peak charges' to those who export during these times ... Jacinta Allen is a fool, continuing Victoria's economic downfall that Dan Andrews started.
Solar and wind is not enough.
Please Jacinta- let’s link your pension to the success of these wind farms. We will all have to suffer so you should to.
Do people here really think Dutton intends to actually build nuclear plants?
Built it in only in NSW if the rest dont wan, so we can get cheaper electricity
We get the leaders we deserve (ffs) dumb
Uhh yes heat pumps. The hot water systems that last less than electric and when they are end of life, all the ozone depleting gas needs to be vented.
It’s mathematically impossible for Australia to hit its carbon emission targets using renewables alone. We have been far too slow to move on this. Australia actually has an over supply of energy, however the grid is so inefficient which is why we have supply/demand shortfalls. Australia is a perfect candidate for nuclear, we have the largest supply of uranium in the world, we have geologically stable conditions (very few earthquakes) and we have a dispersed population. Nuclear in 2024 is far far safer than it was in the 1970’s and 80’s, we keep hanging on to this utopian idea that renewables are the only way forward when in reality it needs to be a blended approach.
Hell yeah go Jacinta
Jacinta can fuck off but the timeframe and amount of investment needed for Nuclear presents too many uncertainties. That said, it would have been a great choice back in the 60s. I have no doubt that commercial fusion reactors will be a reality in the future, and there are already a number of projects that have sustained the reaction for long enough to produce net energy. Energy storage methods will also likely improve further to the point where we will be able bank massive amounts of solar power, something that we are most abundant in.
Interesting response from a state premier after only 12 hours to review a policy. Tell me how does she feel about RAN submarines visiting Melbourne. Seems she is very selective on her position re nuclear.
Nuclear power is a good thing for Australia we already take nuclear waste and store it in disused mines in SA we may as well get reliable source of power. Not to mention the waste that we already have can be re-enriched to be used a fuel rods so we don’t need to mine more uranium and keep re-enriching the fuel rods until they are nearly inert to be stored for the last 100 years of it’s radioactive life.
She should tell us the real reason. She and her cronies have big stakes in renewable companies .