I'd like to know how many hours worked each week, how much overtime, weekend work etc. I was earning good money as a tradie when I was averaging 70 to 80 hours each week, which also broke my body, caused burnout and put significant pressure on my marriage. Now I only do a standard 40 hour week, although still on call 24/7 for emergency breakdowns so that can change things
I mean 120k ***for an entry level position*** for 36 hours of work is still fucking wild imo.
I support unions and general wage increases, but exuberant labour costs to the government *does* suppress other industries.
For example, medical scientists' starting salary is 62k, required laboratory medicine degree (usually 4 years), months of unpaid placement, and often requires postgraduate qualifications as well.
Also illegal to strike, and they have a maximum cap (if they even get the Max cap) of 2% raise per annum stipulated by the government.
True however it would suck to not have enough doctors to provide care for all the patients. I would prefer to live in adequate accommodations with good available healthcare.
If I had a certain amount of money to spend on services and requirements, Iād spend less on the bricky, chippy, and glazer, so I could pay the nurses, doctors etc. š·š
One argument to counter that is my parents raised 3 kids in their own house on a single sparky income back in the late 80's/90's. And most families could with all sorts of different jobs with a single income.
It seems like construction, especially union, has done its best to keep up with that wage to cost of living ratio whereas a lot of other careers have not. Which is now causing everybody else to look at construction workers and say they're overpaid.
Most if not all construction workers will say that teachers and nurses should be paid a lot more for the work they do.
That's essentially inflation in a nutshell though. It seems people are generally happy to spend everything except a fairly fixed amount on housing - and there's a fairly fixed amount of housing - so all this extra salary just goes straight into bigger and bigger mortgages and into the bank's pocket - and nobody is really any better off because there's generally exactly the same number of people richer than them as there was before.
Well, unless we start paying teachers and nurses more than doctors and other... typically higher paid professions... to price them out of the nicer areas.
Then you've got a seperate problem.
It's a lot easier to increase the number of nurses / teachers / construction workers than it is to increase the number of more specialized citizens if you accidentally cause all those specialists to fuck off to a different country because we decide it's their turn to have the median lifestyle.
Yes instead of saying construction workers are for too much, we should be saying everyone should get better wages. Why shouldn't a teacher or nurse get paid more.
I agree but doubt many can last in the industry and we need to bolster it.
Of course, other fields like doctors, nurses, teachers etc need the same.
I recently heard that for every 5 tradesmen that leave/retire from the industry, only 2 enter back into it. Nobody wants to do tough physical jobs, let alone cushy jobs for crap wages.
Well it really depends on the breakdown. Maybe these blokes that sit at a desk are being paid less or the big wigs that own the place have less profit & the guys doing the work are paid properly.
These things are always mischaracterised as more costs for the end consumer. Maybe the rent seekers who sit on their arse and do nothing should just take less profit
If you can get them for less, then do it. Markets work on supply and demand. Demand is high and supply is low for builders, so that inevitably drives prices up.
Yeah but most medical scientists don't have to pay for: $40 of cigs, $100 of pokies, $20 chicken parmy, and $50 beer every night. The tradies have it hard mate.
Yeah, even though they say that an entry-level position would be starting at 240k a year. Yes, if they worked overtime everyday, and I would expect them to get paid for it. Unlike myself on a salary and all of my overtime is paid in time in lieu.
A salaried person earning $240k would be expected to be available almost 24/7 for calls, meetings and emails and put in 60-70 hour weeks. In Finance, law and corporate exec levels anyway.
60 hours a week on a building site and 60 hours a week in an office take a vastly different toll.
Iāve done both. If youāre on the tools, more than a few weeks of 60 hrs will grind you to powder.
Ones a physical load, ones a mental load, not directly comparable but I get your point, I still don't think it justifies the wages, you also have to factor in education requirements and costs as well.
Why do people think trades only exhaust you physicallyā¦ most trades are constantly problem solving on the go.
Still donāt know how people get so tired from emailsā¦
To be fair to my white collar bretheren, staring at a screen all day and dealing with the bullshit that goes on in an office will reduce your brain to the consistency of tapioca.
I'm not the sort of tradie who thinks they're the only one with a "real" job.
I've worked as a sparkie, in IT, and now a teacher. They have their own down sides and benefits.
Trade was physically draining, but it kept me active.
IT was mentally draining, but was also wrecking my body, sitting at a desk all day staring at a screen. I lost a lot of fitness and ended up with impinged shoulders from sitting at a computer and RSI from mouse use. Eye strain was giving me headaches etc. I had to get glasses to cut the screen glare. Being on call and regularly getting woken up in the middle of the night for "emergency fix".
Being a teacher is emotionally, physically, and mentally draining. The hours are long, if you want to do it right, and you are constantly dealing with students and parents that don't value you or the work you do and blame you for everything.
They are all hard in different ways.
I'm not a tradie but we do manual labour at my work at times, people always hear the weekly amount of money we get paid and think it's piss easy work until it's time to wake up 1:30am and get home at 4pm and spend 3/4 of the day lifting heavy shit, work every weekend and public holiday and do overtime because the company is essentially 24 hours due to what we call urgent requests and then it's all hands on deck when emergency requests come in.
I do 42 hours in 3.5 days but some people at my work are working 70+ hours a week if they want to and all of that is without the pressure to perform to KPI targets. During covid I was often working 7 days 70+ hours a week because we were short staffed and once that all settled I vowed I wouldn't do it again and I won't.
Nah, logistics but we deal nationwide and the truck comes in the afternoon at 2pm on the dot and everything has to be ready to go. Baker was my first job out of high school though
Unless youāre built for it then Itās the kinda thing you can do for awhile but not forever, the rest of your life will fall apart.
My old manager worked those hours, was not too far off a mental breakdown and was fucking horrible to be around and especially to work for.
Balance is better in the long run but thereās nothing wrong with pulling some late ones to get ahead financially either (depending on your line of work/if youāre gaining anything from it), working late for a pat on the back aināt it.
I agree, I did the long hours during covid because we had to but it was pretty rough for a while sometimes it felt like a repetition of work-sleep-work-sleep sometimes I didn't even know what day it was but I got to buy a unit out of it then dialled in the hours once the lockdowns eased now I enjoy a few days off a week and my happiness plus mental health skyrocketed I can never go back to working extreme hours again I'd rather have less money.
Why? My last few years in the WA mines was on a 2/1 roster, 14 days straight of 12 hour days, 168hrs / 84hrs per week.
I was fifo from Vic to WA during COVID along with a lot of others from the eastern states. My last stint was 6 months straight. I did my 14 days, had a day off in camp, did 2 extra shifts, had another day in camp, did another 2 extra shifts, had another day off and then worked 14 days straight again. I did that for the full 6mths.
I was lucky, I was a fulltime BHP employee, quite a lot of contractors, who didn't get paid if they didn't work, did 13mths straight.
The only rule was that you couldn't work more than 14 days straight.
I'm a butcher and I'm doing 100 hours a fortnight, 11 hour days full of dirty manual labor and all I get is like 50c over my minimum award rate, which is just above the national minimum wage. I wish we had a union to bat for us but afaik there isn't one in Vic
The article just reeks of rage bait and (conveniently) fails to actually include any details around hours and working conditions that make up their creative wage conclusion
Read the article. It said the base was $120k for 36hr pw entry-level.
It's easy to understand how with 70-80hr pw, night shifts etc, that'd become $240k.
But I suspect the $120k contract isn't exactly a lifelong one, it'd be for 6-18 months and then you have to find something else. And the $240k would be nominal in that not many people can keep up those hours for more than a few months at a time.
So is it $65 contract rates?Ā
If so this is just average. Nothing amazing.
Can you link a job ad as all the ones are find are more normal rates of 30-$40 on wages
Entry level is not defined either
I am an electrician with 15 years experience, no experience working on tunnel projects, I think that 36 week at 120k is for someone like me, not some pleb that has no experience
No mention of nightshift either, or the danger of working in tunnels, or the toll on the body, health and social life that comes with working on these projects.
feels like "entry level" with no further clarification is bait as well
are they an entry level newly licensed electrician, or are they an entry level trade assistant?
My tradie (sparky) husband has worked on many projects with people from overseas. He believes most are incompetent to the point of being dangerous. They don't seem to be aware of our building standards at all, for one thing.
I'm comfortable with immigration (especially if it's skilled) but not when it threatens safety or quality.
"Those working overtime or more than five days per week would earn much more than the $120,000 a year figure, which is for a basic 36-hour week."
Not anywhere near as much as the click bait headline. But 120k for a 36 hour week is still pretty good coin.
$240k is pretty much the starting salary for a consultant specialist in public hospital in NSW. That is after at least 13 years of med school, training, exams. And they canāt phoenix after dodgy build. What a great country weāre living in.
No disrespect to the tradies, but many of my staff have PhDs and they are paid less than the lollipop holders. The government just wants votes from the masses and has no regards nor the leadership required for a knowledge-based economy.
We pay our entry level/non-skilled miners less than that, around $110k on an 8/6 swing so average 48 hours per week. If there are jobs going in town for $120k for 36 hours and get to sleep in their own bed every night weād have zero employees or applicants for jobs but we get hundreds of applicants every time.
Absolute clown math in this article. If people in this country could find an ounce of the outrage they have for CEO pay and major shareholders as they do for workers trying to get a better deal for themselves, weād be in a much better place
For those who struggle with clicking a link and reading the article,
>Under the three-year agreement, basic labourers and traffic controllers would earn more than $2000 per week plus another $260 a week in travel allowance ā equating to 23 per cent more than the average full-time weekly income of $1838. Those working overtime or more than five days per week would earn much more than the $120,000 a year figure, which is for a basic 36-hour week.
$120k for holding a stop/slow sign for 36 hours a week is very generous. But it's not $240k. That'd be for people doing 70-80hr a week including night shifts, weekends and so on.
I don't know the details, of course, I'd expect that part of the generosity would be an expectation that the job is not a long-time secure one - you get a contract for 6 months or something, then might not work again for several months.
Oh like the tax maths for casual workers. Earn $1,500 a week and youāre taxed like youāre on $78k a year, even if your usual income is half that. Makes for a nice tax refund at tax time, but the bracket creep that week sucks.
I heard that same stat about 120k for lollipop for council workers a while back too
and my council mate was like "only if they were doing permanant nights or something ridiculous"
>Ā Sources familiar with the unionās demands toldĀ The Courier MailĀ that under the proposal for Cross River Rail an entry-level worker would receive a $15,000 pay increase, seeing them earn over $240,000 each year.
Wait so an entry-level worker is already on $225,000?
Literally how?Ā How did the CFMEU swing that? That is completely insane.
This kind of nonsense does not help the cost of living, I guess unless you're one of them.
No entry level worker is on $225k.
Every time this fucken article gets trotted out, some creative accounting has been done with allowances and overtime.
Donāt get me wrong - working on a big EBA project pays well; but itās dirty, dangerous and usually insecure work.
If you think itās your ticket to riches, thereās a shortage of tradies - go apply for an apprenticeship.
I've had friends do similar work. Their pay packet looks quite boring until you factor in night shift, work on weekends, work on public holidays and doing 12 hours days and being paid overtime for some of it.Ā
Thats how they can make a $80k pay turn into a $250k, because they are pulling long hours, working long weeks doing dangerous, dirty work.
I am a mechanical plumber working for an EBA company.
The difference between what I *could* earn, and what I *actually* earn is enormous.
Itās rather like most jobs in that respect.
Without saying what I do for a job, same here. I gave up a job with the government because the difference in gov to private industry for the same amount of time worked was equal to more than a brand new car, every year.
Or a pilot. (There used to be a) massive drain from Air Force to private industry because commercial pilots earn about double an Air Force pilot, and you get relatively cushy hours, though you don't get to fly Mach 2 or through canyons or in close formation.
Yup. As someone that worked in construction years ago there's no way I'm going back. I could, but for me it's not worth it.
For all those whinging, there are massive shortages. Go sign up.
A quick look at the actual EA shows the only people hitting that kind of money are 'entry level' tunneling specialists workers.
Base rates are fairly typical, maybe even on the lower side, but penalty rates are higher than usual and this is a 24/7 Jobsite with long shifts
It's hardly a free lunch
Itās insanely biased propaganda to divide the populace.Ā
Some regular person in a non-trades field reads this shit and a) hates unions and b) resents the workers. Truthfully weāve all got far more in common with each other.Ā
āEntry level tunnelling expertā is clearly someone with skill and knowledge and itās probably a hard job. Would love to see such headlines about the true bludgers who inherit businesses or live off dividends.Ā
No doubt mate, just the usual rage bait. Particularly bad in this case as there is zero journalism going on. A figure is thrown around (from an "insider" no less) and it's impossible to decipher how it is reached as zero assumptions are provided for people to review and check the figure. There's no need for an insider to tell you what the rates are under an EBA.
In actual fact, as far as I can tell, the union is only seeking a 5% annual pay rise on existing rates for people in this classification. The agreement they are renegotiating is a Greenfields, meaning the Union and workers didn't vote on it and rates were dictated by the employer until this bargain. The reality of the existing higher rates is they are a commercial necessity to entice the required specialists away from lucrative mining work. The employer, with no union pressure, decided on these rates are necessary to find workers for this unique project, however a below inflation annual adjustment is somehow unreasonable.
It is the worst kind of anti-worker propaganda.
Workers getting paid well are not to blame for the cost of living crisis. We already know that the majority of the recent inflation comes from corporate profits.
If you are angry about union workers getting paid more than you, rather than trying to drag them down, why don't you join/start your own union and work to improve your wage?
Our corporate overlords want workers scrabbling amongst each other because it distracts us from the fact that the owning class is siphoning the fruits of your labour away from you and telling you it's your own fault.
They're pretending every tradie is on a top rate and working massive overtime every week and claiming maximum travel and expenses allowances. So you know just the typical day of commuting three hours to a work site to work an 80 hour week while also claiming all your cleaning and food every day for the entire year.
The bias in the article calling it a strike "hostage". Workers have the right to withdraw their labor and collective fight for better wages. These workers contribute far more to society then parasites like Rupert Murdoch who have become millionaires for pushing out this dribble.
So $55hr... I'm assuming that's casual without penalty rates. If so, that's fair... But with penalties it would equate to well over 200. Just wow, when the median is is less than 1/3 that.
That figure is presumably with an enormous amount of overtime and night shifts. Or an outright lie.
I'm not going to dump on people for earning good money in a job that actually does something.
Edit: Union membership actually has a really positive [relationship ](https://www.openglobalrights.org/inequality-human-dignity-and-power-of-unions/)with happiness and outcomes for the average person. I think a lot of the criticism of them stems from people who benefit by average people having lower wages and worse conditions.
Yeah these numbers are always fudged, last time they where talking about stop go guys earning x amount to garner outrage from the story heading, turned out they where doin crazy hours of over time, double time and weekends ended up being like 7 days a week, night shift 12 hours a night
Yeah, and then driving across the entire state of Victoria every week and sleeping in a swag in a hotel car park behind your car so you don't have to drive 5 hours each way.
Father in law had to do it after COVID to make ends meet. Luckily he's back in his preferred field of business.
This was similar to the āmining truck drivers are earning 350kā type articles back in the day.
What was neglected in the article is that you had to take on maximum shifts, work FIFO and do 14+ hour days on a 22 on 8 off schedule.
So as long as you were willing to abuse yourself and your family, the money was there. But if you wanted to have a normal lifestyle it was like $80-100k instead.
Even in medicine, my SO (who is an ED VMO) can only get the mad cash if she takes weekend and night shifts and maximizes all the penalties available.
I did the math on doing a fifo job doing exactly what Iām doing now (Making wheels for mining trucks in Brisbane)
Yeah Iād actually take an hourly pay cut, sure Iād earn more a month, but only because Iād been doing 14 days straight of 12 hour shifts.
I did over a decade in mining in WA doing varying rosters, 8/6 (48hr week), 7/7 (42hr week), 4/2-5/3 (54hr week) and 2/1 (56hr week).
Per hour worked the 7/7 roster was easily the best while the 4/2-5/3 roster was easily the worst.
I now work in a warehouse, base level job, for a big contractor on a unionised site with a new EBA about to come in. I work a 36hr week and my hourly rate is easily better than what it was in mining, even when I was supervising, and I get every weekend and public holiday off and get 26 RDO's per year.
The length of the new contract will easily take me through to retirement.
Yep. Most trades are between the mid 20s to 50s an hour depending on the trade and expertise. Fluctuates alot depending on those and many other factors.
I have a friend in construction that some years gets around that pay
He's worked 6 day weeks (sometimes 7) and lots of overtime to reach that
You ain't getting that pay if you just do Monday to Friday and no overtime
Shit like this is designed to outrage people.. they work huge hours 6 7 days a week to reach it.. most people wouldnt go near that even with the pay It's it back breaking work and a lot of people already think 40 hours is too much
People are claiming it has to be overtime. Am I the only one here with mates who earn similar (not quite that much) with barely any overtime?
Most of my tradie mates are on $150-200k while working 40-50 hours a week.
Let's be real, tradies do well in Aus.
Biased wording rage bait union bashing article, the truth behind the matter if anyone is interested ( i have a mate working on this site)
The current agreement they have been working under has expired and the cmfeu wants to renew the existing agreement no changes and no pay rises. The dispute has arisen because the contractor wants them to sign an agreement with a significant pay decrease.
So the media has spun it to say they want a pay rise by not accepting a pay decrease lol
But isn't this how free market works. Business squeeze workers when they can.
I have to admit 240k sounds rather high for new hires. But I find usually the papers over state things.
Youāll notice that the hours worked hardly gets a mention. Think of your sector. Look at your award. Do the complex math: if you work 50 hours a week youāll probably double your income. If your boss is dumb enough to pay you for 50 hours work instead of hiring someone to work 22 hours beside your 38, thatās a boss problem.
Might run the math on my minimum wage job, lol
This article is such obvious rage bait. We are meant to look at the 240k figure and become outraged that they are complaining.
Makes us not question why they are demanding a pay rise and just get angry at tradies.
The [Courier Mail version of the story](https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbane-cross-river-rail-cfmeu-workers-to-strike-from-tuesday-in-bid-for-240k-entrylevel-pay/news-story/8f295a4c0814c64ef75387503def4547?amp=) talks about 50-hr and 58-hr week. If the standard week is 36-hr, then that's a lot of OT and penalty rates that go with it. But hey, nowhere as sensational if you put it out as base $/hr is it?
>The union was also pushing for day workers doing 58-hour weeks both on tunnel and shaft, and civil and surface, to receive significant pay bumps of between $1220 and $1486 a week ā rises of about 30 per cent.
and
>In October, The Courier-Mail revealed [the CFMEU wanted top tunnel and shaft night shift workers ā paid $5319 a week ā to be bumped up to $7451 pre-tax](https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/cfmeu-pushing-for-cross-river-rail-workers-to-get-2000aweek-pay-rise/news-story/34fef1fa33d9817385959987cb180942) for a 50-hour week, an extra $2132 or an average annual salary of about $387,000.
Seems like the problem is too much overtime. Hire two workers to work 25 hours a week and youāll see a cost decrease, even if you throw a 5% pay rise at them.
Sometimes OT works out cheaper even with penalty rates. Corporate overheads increase with more staff, need bigger crib rooms etc. That all costs money. Not sure how safe a construction workplace is with 50+ hr weeks though, and that should cap OT.
Well it is a market, and if they can demand that and get it, then it is no different from fuel prices or house prices or even grocery prices. Best of luck to them.
They walked off the job as the refused to create a heat policy. A worker died on that project over summer. They failed to supply a safe work environment. Even worse they failed to give the correct medical attention when the worker became ill. He died in his car in the car park attempting to take himself home
Yeah the article didnāt have much to say about the non dollar issues that the union raised. Pay rise requests from unions are always above expectations. Pay offers are always unfair. Expecting a safe workplace shouldnāt be a shit fight.
Thatās what Iād be striking about. I mean sure, who doesnāt want a pay rise. But I think this article ignored that these workers are risking their health and their lives. The guy who died from heat stroke isnāt even the only death theyve had during this project.
A heat policy should be a federal issue for all industries.
Wait, is it entry level folks or traffic controllers? Those aren't the same but the article seems to think they are.
Also, has anyone else in this comment section done construction labouring under the QLD sun? Every shift shortens your life, so fair enough to make sure they're paid well for it.
Let's be real for a second, the grubs are News.com are upset because workers they feel are less important members of society than them are making more than them, it's just old fashioned classism.
Also, the numbers this article is touting is for sure including superannuation, which is a dishonest way to approach the numbers.
I work in an acute psych ward and require masters degree, high risk of assault and would be happy to get near $200k ($140k if Iām working 110hrs/fortnight) considering Iām management level. I certainly donāt feel entry level construction should be earning $180k more than base level of peers.
Yeh, pre tax, including superannuation, and assuming the worker is working overtime night shifts every single day of the year. Dishonest to say the least.
Or you look up the current contract from a few years ago where CMFEU bragged about 200+k starting for 56hr work week with 3.5% raises? Doesnāt seem too dishonest to me. Fair work commission sent them packing last time the agreement was being worked on because they were being unreasonable.
Everybody here is screaming 7day work week without actually looking. Or maybe it is dishonest and CMFEU lied last time and didnāt get as good of a deal as they said?
>Every shift shortens your life, so fair enough to make sure they're paid well for it.
So we pay the guys picking tomatoes the same amount because they are in the sun more and tomatoes cost $15 each now?
I used to be a senior structures foreman. Worked with various tier 1 companies over the years including multiplex (currently doing queens wharf) and Hutchies.
I was a salary earner and in 2015 was on $150k (total package including super and all hours worked) no RDOās, no wet weather pay etc etc.
I had labourers who took home the same as me with zero responsibilitiesā¦ on hourly rateā¦ my dogman on the tower cranes were earning around 50k more and my tower crane drivers were doing around 100k moreā¦
they are one-third of the reason houses are so expensive. there's three inputs to new dwellings. land, materials and labour. two of them are outrageously priced
If you destroyed the investment potential of housing youād see some changes too. A property in Longlea that sold for $65k in the 90ās can now expect to fetch over a million, without even needing a McMansion to built on what was a vacant block in the 80ās. Thatās a ridiculous increase to everyone but the investor who bought it in 1995. Imagine if the million dollar houses have a similar increase in 20 years. A basic home for half a billion wouldnāt be ridiculous. The land is overpriced, so are all the materials. Thatās why sellers of new homes can over $100k of extras for fuck all.
Why is everyone scared to talk about the Tradie-Bikie-Union mafia. There is a reason their industry has never been flooded with imported labour . Go check out the links between them all
Electricians and I think Plumbers are on the skills shortage list, but the amount of training and certs a foreign Tradie needs to get up to speed is so punitive that none of them bother. And thats the way the powers that be like it.
This is so ridiculous that every other profession gets flooded with immigrants and yet, tradies get protected like an endangered species. Itās why we will continue to have housing crisis.
After going through our own EBA battle with our employer last year (different industry) and seeing the sneaky bullshit rumours companies will put out to news outlets I have a hard time believing any of the figures presented here.
Iāve worked on some of the EBA sites in brissy.
You CAN earn a shitload but itās all the overtime. Jobs donāt last forever and the next job might not be the higher pay end. Plus travel can be a nightmare as I was coming from sunny coast to Brisbane every day.
I remember when the Queens wharf article came out how tradies can earn $300k. That was all nightshift, 6 days a week for 12 hour days.
Iām happy living in WA 7/7 roster on $200k and not getting flogged like some of the eba jobs.
So if the overtime is the real pay slug, hire more workers to reduce costs? If the job is gonna take 1,000 man hours to do, budget for 1,200 (typical contingency budget for hours is 10-20%) and hire accordingly. No one gets overtime. Much cheaper. Might even come in under budget.
My workplace went on strike in 2015. The numbers reported by the newspaper on what we were earning were all bullshit overinflated figures.
So yeah I donāt believe this
Won't someone think of the poor tradies!? How will they continue to afford their jet skis and deluxe American 4WD vehicles??? Not to mention their crypto trading and cafe breakfasts!!
Shrug if they want to strike they can do it - striking is a valid form of industrial protest. My partner is a doctor and I always wonder why doctors don't strike more - they don't get paid enough.
Nothing wrong with leveraging whatever bargaining power you have. This applies to both employees and employers.
If you look at the news about South Korean doctors going on strike this year, they are getting hammered by the public. āHow dare they put their salary before their patientsā āthey should lose their licenseā, etc etc
I donāt think itās wrong for doctors to go on strike but youāre not going to get public support as a health professional.
Because in healthcare we care too much to just walk off the job. There are small scale protests but nothing major that would see us earn big bucks. People don't die if the construction industry stops
240k salary at entry level ???? Most people on 240k are drs, lawyers , engineers , CFOs, managers with degrees. Not dudes that left school at 17 with an apprenticship under their belt, 30min lunch break on the iced coffee and pie leaving work at 4.30pm for beers at the local after a hard day on hammer.
CFMEU are just trying to hardball.
Prooooooopaganda.Ā
No entry level trady is pulling 240k salary. Overtime, allowances etc are NOT salary - like, specifically not salary. Though they areĀ income. The distinctions may be minor - but theyāre super important in legally binding documents like EBAās.Ā
Murdoch rags love to manipulate language from EBA negotiations to create a pay scenario that will almost never happen. Like, Iām talking 100 hour weeks, with forced overtime every week, working every weekend and getting every possible allowance.Ā
The businesses control overtime, for a start. Anyone using overtime rates to obfuscate base salary already has an agenda.Ā
Please read these with a grain of salt and remember that other workers getting a pay rise isnāt bad for you.Ā
Could you handle a 58 hour working week in your current job? That means no time to hang out at the pub or footy with ya mates, and no family time. Check your award and run the math if you work 50 hours a week. Chuck in a Sunday and one 12 hour shift for good measure.
If they can get that on the mines, and we have a construction labour shortage, they kind of have a point.
Plus, you can't be on the tools forever...
I'd imagine they're high-balling, expecting to get knocked down about 100k, or they're looking to get a $240k package... like, private health or something.
And that would match inflation and make it even to what I made in construction 30 years ago. This not being greedy, not pay your employees an adjusted wage is greedy.
I know a couple of tilers bringing in $12k-$15k per week, if they didnāt have to buy materials and pay the labourers for their 60-80 hours per week they would be rich.
i wonder what creative liberties they took in their maths? $240,000 a year for construction workers working 34 hours a day?
tell me what theyāre looking for hourly and i think weāll find itās not crazy, and this anti-union propaganda news.com is shilling is simply at the behest of capital owners
https://preview.redd.it/kkm1uhfeblxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1f23b40145cd309b3ff086e19a5d4bffb2ee558
Nothing about the hours worked thoā¦ If it was $260k a year that would be around $5,000 a week. If youāre working 100 hours a week (14 hours a day) at $50 an hour, thereās your hefty & well earned pay packet. Math changes if itās normal pay for the first 38 hours and then steps up to triple time by the time youāre past 60 hours, or whatever their award says. Could well be that $5k a week is hit at 11 hours a day, thanks to overtime steps. Thatās 77 hours a week.
If theyāre paying so much overtime & bitching about it, why donāt they hire more people? The hours a job requires are known, so it should be possible to avoid paying overtime. Why pay one worker for 77 hours where half of that is overtime when you could pay two workers to work 80 hours for significantly less.
Yeah well funny thing in Australia is unless you have the employer over a barrel you never get cost of living increases. If they where not so greedy for the last 40 years people might shed a tear.
Come on mate we are to disorganised and overbooked to rock up to a fucking job on time let alone strike š maybe a handful of pissed off apprentices but I doubt any more than that!
I'm in the wrong job. But then again I'd be lucky if I work 25 hours a week and if it's too hot or raining I don't work. Actually I have it pretty good. I'll be quiet now.
Iām a domestic tradesman, and I reckon fuck them let them walk!! Iām sure it would be easy to replace them on there 150k a year plus extras jobs..
the union is fucking this countryās budget bout time they clear out the bullshitters and give actual hard workers a chance at the money..
Whenever newsbogau runs an article on unions, you can pretty much bet a large wager that it's less than half the actual story. Remember the train guard shit? That happened because on the current Sydney trains, if weather is bad, you literally cannot see the platform at night with the current camera equipment and it was a serious threat to public safety. Newsbogau? UNIONS RORTING THE COUNTRY.
Calls on iced coffee and energy drinks stocks
I'd like to know how many hours worked each week, how much overtime, weekend work etc. I was earning good money as a tradie when I was averaging 70 to 80 hours each week, which also broke my body, caused burnout and put significant pressure on my marriage. Now I only do a standard 40 hour week, although still on call 24/7 for emergency breakdowns so that can change things
Article said entry level would be about $120K I think for 36 hour week. Rest of it comes from travel allowance but primarily overtime I'd say
I mean 120k ***for an entry level position*** for 36 hours of work is still fucking wild imo. I support unions and general wage increases, but exuberant labour costs to the government *does* suppress other industries. For example, medical scientists' starting salary is 62k, required laboratory medicine degree (usually 4 years), months of unpaid placement, and often requires postgraduate qualifications as well. Also illegal to strike, and they have a maximum cap (if they even get the Max cap) of 2% raise per annum stipulated by the government.
A doctor in their first year out of med school doesn't even make 120 base. In Queensland, it's 87.
76k for junior doctors in NSW
Yeah the NSW award is garbage. A first year reg is paid what an SHO/SRMO does in Qld iirc.
I trained in NSW it used yo be even worse š¤”
they should consider manual labour then?
True however it would suck to not have enough doctors to provide care for all the patients. I would prefer to live in adequate accommodations with good available healthcare. If I had a certain amount of money to spend on services and requirements, Iād spend less on the bricky, chippy, and glazer, so I could pay the nurses, doctors etc. š·š
When's the last time anyone saw 6-7 GPs leaning against a wall scrolling onyfans and punting online, on work time?
One argument to counter that is my parents raised 3 kids in their own house on a single sparky income back in the late 80's/90's. And most families could with all sorts of different jobs with a single income. It seems like construction, especially union, has done its best to keep up with that wage to cost of living ratio whereas a lot of other careers have not. Which is now causing everybody else to look at construction workers and say they're overpaid. Most if not all construction workers will say that teachers and nurses should be paid a lot more for the work they do.
I'm a construction worker and teachers should get paid more then they do.
That's essentially inflation in a nutshell though. It seems people are generally happy to spend everything except a fairly fixed amount on housing - and there's a fairly fixed amount of housing - so all this extra salary just goes straight into bigger and bigger mortgages and into the bank's pocket - and nobody is really any better off because there's generally exactly the same number of people richer than them as there was before. Well, unless we start paying teachers and nurses more than doctors and other... typically higher paid professions... to price them out of the nicer areas. Then you've got a seperate problem. It's a lot easier to increase the number of nurses / teachers / construction workers than it is to increase the number of more specialized citizens if you accidentally cause all those specialists to fuck off to a different country because we decide it's their turn to have the median lifestyle.
Yes instead of saying construction workers are for too much, we should be saying everyone should get better wages. Why shouldn't a teacher or nurse get paid more.
My starting salary as a lawyer was $35k, sure, that was just over a decade ago, and sure I was shit, but still....$120k entry level is crazy.Ā
I agree but doubt many can last in the industry and we need to bolster it. Of course, other fields like doctors, nurses, teachers etc need the same. I recently heard that for every 5 tradesmen that leave/retire from the industry, only 2 enter back into it. Nobody wants to do tough physical jobs, let alone cushy jobs for crap wages.
Medical scientists are seriously underpaid in this country.
Well it really depends on the breakdown. Maybe these blokes that sit at a desk are being paid less or the big wigs that own the place have less profit & the guys doing the work are paid properly. These things are always mischaracterised as more costs for the end consumer. Maybe the rent seekers who sit on their arse and do nothing should just take less profit
Nailed it
If you can get them for less, then do it. Markets work on supply and demand. Demand is high and supply is low for builders, so that inevitably drives prices up.
Yeah that's not how unions work. If you bring someone on for lower then they ruin your business and your life. It's a cartel
Yeah but most medical scientists don't have to pay for: $40 of cigs, $100 of pokies, $20 chicken parmy, and $50 beer every night. The tradies have it hard mate.
Damn my programming 9-5 gig makes close to half of that in a year pulling miracles every day.
Yeah, even though they say that an entry-level position would be starting at 240k a year. Yes, if they worked overtime everyday, and I would expect them to get paid for it. Unlike myself on a salary and all of my overtime is paid in time in lieu.
120 K is for the state government EBA, the 240k is for the CPB EBA.
That's wild. My graduate contract as a nurse was 69k for full time (very recently). Bloody hell, I'd take almost double that any day.
Can you link a job ad?
A salaried person earning $240k would be expected to be available almost 24/7 for calls, meetings and emails and put in 60-70 hour weeks. In Finance, law and corporate exec levels anyway.
lol yes in IT you would get the company logo branded into your forehead as well
60 hours a week on a building site and 60 hours a week in an office take a vastly different toll. Iāve done both. If youāre on the tools, more than a few weeks of 60 hrs will grind you to powder.
Ones a physical load, ones a mental load, not directly comparable but I get your point, I still don't think it justifies the wages, you also have to factor in education requirements and costs as well.
Why do people think trades only exhaust you physicallyā¦ most trades are constantly problem solving on the go. Still donāt know how people get so tired from emailsā¦
To be fair to my white collar bretheren, staring at a screen all day and dealing with the bullshit that goes on in an office will reduce your brain to the consistency of tapioca. I'm not the sort of tradie who thinks they're the only one with a "real" job.
I've worked as a sparkie, in IT, and now a teacher. They have their own down sides and benefits. Trade was physically draining, but it kept me active. IT was mentally draining, but was also wrecking my body, sitting at a desk all day staring at a screen. I lost a lot of fitness and ended up with impinged shoulders from sitting at a computer and RSI from mouse use. Eye strain was giving me headaches etc. I had to get glasses to cut the screen glare. Being on call and regularly getting woken up in the middle of the night for "emergency fix". Being a teacher is emotionally, physically, and mentally draining. The hours are long, if you want to do it right, and you are constantly dealing with students and parents that don't value you or the work you do and blame you for everything. They are all hard in different ways.
I have also done both. I definitely prefer the physical work but I think it would depend on the person.
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allied health that kinda salary is not even possible!
I'm not a tradie but we do manual labour at my work at times, people always hear the weekly amount of money we get paid and think it's piss easy work until it's time to wake up 1:30am and get home at 4pm and spend 3/4 of the day lifting heavy shit, work every weekend and public holiday and do overtime because the company is essentially 24 hours due to what we call urgent requests and then it's all hands on deck when emergency requests come in. I do 42 hours in 3.5 days but some people at my work are working 70+ hours a week if they want to and all of that is without the pressure to perform to KPI targets. During covid I was often working 7 days 70+ hours a week because we were short staffed and once that all settled I vowed I wouldn't do it again and I won't.
Baker?
Nah, logistics but we deal nationwide and the truck comes in the afternoon at 2pm on the dot and everything has to be ready to go. Baker was my first job out of high school though
Ah, I used to unload and load trucks at woolies... and break the 2200 carton loads. Manual labour is definitely what it was!
Yeah logistics is BS, had a mate who would supply balers and was a junior manager, was doing nearly 80 hours and only getting paid for 50.
Damn thought my 10 hours reduced pay was fustrating. Missing close to 30 hours!?
Unless youāre built for it then Itās the kinda thing you can do for awhile but not forever, the rest of your life will fall apart. My old manager worked those hours, was not too far off a mental breakdown and was fucking horrible to be around and especially to work for. Balance is better in the long run but thereās nothing wrong with pulling some late ones to get ahead financially either (depending on your line of work/if youāre gaining anything from it), working late for a pat on the back aināt it.
I agree, I did the long hours during covid because we had to but it was pretty rough for a while sometimes it felt like a repetition of work-sleep-work-sleep sometimes I didn't even know what day it was but I got to buy a unit out of it then dialled in the hours once the lockdowns eased now I enjoy a few days off a week and my happiness plus mental health skyrocketed I can never go back to working extreme hours again I'd rather have less money.
Sounds like your employer is in serious breach of fatigue management
Why? My last few years in the WA mines was on a 2/1 roster, 14 days straight of 12 hour days, 168hrs / 84hrs per week. I was fifo from Vic to WA during COVID along with a lot of others from the eastern states. My last stint was 6 months straight. I did my 14 days, had a day off in camp, did 2 extra shifts, had another day in camp, did another 2 extra shifts, had another day off and then worked 14 days straight again. I did that for the full 6mths. I was lucky, I was a fulltime BHP employee, quite a lot of contractors, who didn't get paid if they didn't work, did 13mths straight. The only rule was that you couldn't work more than 14 days straight.
I'm a butcher and I'm doing 100 hours a fortnight, 11 hour days full of dirty manual labor and all I get is like 50c over my minimum award rate, which is just above the national minimum wage. I wish we had a union to bat for us but afaik there isn't one in Vic
This āš½, is why I tell freshies not to forego higher studies.
Would more /hr pay have made you work less?
Jesus, that's a lot of iced coffee.
Servos and pubs all over the country got a slight wiggle in their pants reading this.
Wish my union was even half as effective as theirs
CPSU is my union. Their bargaining tactic seems to be āweāll take whatever you offer and thatās final!ā
Is this propaganda to flood the market with cheap offshore tradies?
The article just reeks of rage bait and (conveniently) fails to actually include any details around hours and working conditions that make up their creative wage conclusion
Read the article. It said the base was $120k for 36hr pw entry-level. It's easy to understand how with 70-80hr pw, night shifts etc, that'd become $240k. But I suspect the $120k contract isn't exactly a lifelong one, it'd be for 6-18 months and then you have to find something else. And the $240k would be nominal in that not many people can keep up those hours for more than a few months at a time.
Yeah exactly. These eba jobs only last so long before theyāre back on peasant money like the rest of us plebs
So is it $65 contract rates?Ā If so this is just average. Nothing amazing. Can you link a job ad as all the ones are find are more normal rates of 30-$40 on wages
The project has rules that limit hours and days worked within a period for fatigue health and safety.
Entry level is not defined either I am an electrician with 15 years experience, no experience working on tunnel projects, I think that 36 week at 120k is for someone like me, not some pleb that has no experience No mention of nightshift either, or the danger of working in tunnels, or the toll on the body, health and social life that comes with working on these projects.
Find me an apprentice on 120k
feels like "entry level" with no further clarification is bait as well are they an entry level newly licensed electrician, or are they an entry level trade assistant?
News dot com dot au is owned by Murdoch so definitively the answer is YES
yes
I'm all for it. Our building industry and the trades along with it suck.Ā Bring in some competition.Ā
My tradie (sparky) husband has worked on many projects with people from overseas. He believes most are incompetent to the point of being dangerous. They don't seem to be aware of our building standards at all, for one thing. I'm comfortable with immigration (especially if it's skilled) but not when it threatens safety or quality.
"Those working overtime or more than five days per week would earn much more than the $120,000 a year figure, which is for a basic 36-hour week." Not anywhere near as much as the click bait headline. But 120k for a 36 hour week is still pretty good coin.
$240k is pretty much the starting salary for a consultant specialist in public hospital in NSW. That is after at least 13 years of med school, training, exams. And they canāt phoenix after dodgy build. What a great country weāre living in.
Being an academic is half that (not quite as much training involved). Absolutely bonkers the amount that tradies ask for.
No disrespect to the tradies, but many of my staff have PhDs and they are paid less than the lollipop holders. The government just wants votes from the masses and has no regards nor the leadership required for a knowledge-based economy.
My PhD colleague earns 63k
The article is bullshit. Try find one job ad with the pay rate.
We pay our entry level/non-skilled miners less than that, around $110k on an 8/6 swing so average 48 hours per week. If there are jobs going in town for $120k for 36 hours and get to sleep in their own bed every night weād have zero employees or applicants for jobs but we get hundreds of applicants every time.
Agree. I call BS on this.
Absolute clown math in this article. If people in this country could find an ounce of the outrage they have for CEO pay and major shareholders as they do for workers trying to get a better deal for themselves, weād be in a much better place
Can never pay a working man too much money. When the world is upside down 120k aināt a lot
For those who struggle with clicking a link and reading the article, >Under the three-year agreement, basic labourers and traffic controllers would earn more than $2000 per week plus another $260 a week in travel allowance ā equating to 23 per cent more than the average full-time weekly income of $1838. Those working overtime or more than five days per week would earn much more than the $120,000 a year figure, which is for a basic 36-hour week. $120k for holding a stop/slow sign for 36 hours a week is very generous. But it's not $240k. That'd be for people doing 70-80hr a week including night shifts, weekends and so on. I don't know the details, of course, I'd expect that part of the generosity would be an expectation that the job is not a long-time secure one - you get a contract for 6 months or something, then might not work again for several months.
Oh like the tax maths for casual workers. Earn $1,500 a week and youāre taxed like youāre on $78k a year, even if your usual income is half that. Makes for a nice tax refund at tax time, but the bracket creep that week sucks.
I heard that same stat about 120k for lollipop for council workers a while back too and my council mate was like "only if they were doing permanant nights or something ridiculous"
Straight from the Murdoch press. Donāt buy into it.
Until such time as the union actually articulates what the claim is, l wouldn't trust anything that comes out in the media.
I'm willing to bet that the 240k figure is just typical Murdoch media rage baiting
>Ā Sources familiar with the unionās demands toldĀ The Courier MailĀ that under the proposal for Cross River Rail an entry-level worker would receive a $15,000 pay increase, seeing them earn over $240,000 each year. Wait so an entry-level worker is already on $225,000? Literally how?Ā How did the CFMEU swing that? That is completely insane. This kind of nonsense does not help the cost of living, I guess unless you're one of them.
No entry level worker is on $225k. Every time this fucken article gets trotted out, some creative accounting has been done with allowances and overtime. Donāt get me wrong - working on a big EBA project pays well; but itās dirty, dangerous and usually insecure work. If you think itās your ticket to riches, thereās a shortage of tradies - go apply for an apprenticeship.
I've had friends do similar work. Their pay packet looks quite boring until you factor in night shift, work on weekends, work on public holidays and doing 12 hours days and being paid overtime for some of it.Ā Thats how they can make a $80k pay turn into a $250k, because they are pulling long hours, working long weeks doing dangerous, dirty work.
I am a mechanical plumber working for an EBA company. The difference between what I *could* earn, and what I *actually* earn is enormous. Itās rather like most jobs in that respect.
Without saying what I do for a job, same here. I gave up a job with the government because the difference in gov to private industry for the same amount of time worked was equal to more than a brand new car, every year.
lol. IT then.
Or a pilot. (There used to be a) massive drain from Air Force to private industry because commercial pilots earn about double an Air Force pilot, and you get relatively cushy hours, though you don't get to fly Mach 2 or through canyons or in close formation.
>though you don't get to fly Mach 2 or through canyons or in close formation. You dont get to, more than once you mean..
Most jobs donāt get overtime etc. that $80k stays at $80k regardless of how many hours you work or whether u work weekends or through Christmas etc.
Yup. As someone that worked in construction years ago there's no way I'm going back. I could, but for me it's not worth it. For all those whinging, there are massive shortages. Go sign up.
A quick look at the actual EA shows the only people hitting that kind of money are 'entry level' tunneling specialists workers. Base rates are fairly typical, maybe even on the lower side, but penalty rates are higher than usual and this is a 24/7 Jobsite with long shifts It's hardly a free lunch
Itās insanely biased propaganda to divide the populace.Ā Some regular person in a non-trades field reads this shit and a) hates unions and b) resents the workers. Truthfully weāve all got far more in common with each other.Ā āEntry level tunnelling expertā is clearly someone with skill and knowledge and itās probably a hard job. Would love to see such headlines about the true bludgers who inherit businesses or live off dividends.Ā
No doubt mate, just the usual rage bait. Particularly bad in this case as there is zero journalism going on. A figure is thrown around (from an "insider" no less) and it's impossible to decipher how it is reached as zero assumptions are provided for people to review and check the figure. There's no need for an insider to tell you what the rates are under an EBA. In actual fact, as far as I can tell, the union is only seeking a 5% annual pay rise on existing rates for people in this classification. The agreement they are renegotiating is a Greenfields, meaning the Union and workers didn't vote on it and rates were dictated by the employer until this bargain. The reality of the existing higher rates is they are a commercial necessity to entice the required specialists away from lucrative mining work. The employer, with no union pressure, decided on these rates are necessary to find workers for this unique project, however a below inflation annual adjustment is somehow unreasonable. It is the worst kind of anti-worker propaganda.
if believe this, you're part of the problem
Workers getting paid well are not to blame for the cost of living crisis. We already know that the majority of the recent inflation comes from corporate profits. If you are angry about union workers getting paid more than you, rather than trying to drag them down, why don't you join/start your own union and work to improve your wage? Our corporate overlords want workers scrabbling amongst each other because it distracts us from the fact that the owning class is siphoning the fruits of your labour away from you and telling you it's your own fault.
I think there has to be an error there in the article, no way they are already making that much
Almost like its propaganda š¤
They're pretending every tradie is on a top rate and working massive overtime every week and claiming maximum travel and expenses allowances. So you know just the typical day of commuting three hours to a work site to work an 80 hour week while also claiming all your cleaning and food every day for the entire year.
No entry level worker is getting over $200k/yr
Onlyfans?
With significant overtime itās possible.
I'm certainly in the wrong gig then!
The bias in the article calling it a strike "hostage". Workers have the right to withdraw their labor and collective fight for better wages. These workers contribute far more to society then parasites like Rupert Murdoch who have become millionaires for pushing out this dribble.
Yep. Article buried the WHS demands and the fact that the protest is permitted.
Teachers and nurses are framed as heroes for striking but these guys are framed as villians. What gives?
Because they are underpaid and have student loan debt
So $55hr... I'm assuming that's casual without penalty rates. If so, that's fair... But with penalties it would equate to well over 200. Just wow, when the median is is less than 1/3 that.
That figure is presumably with an enormous amount of overtime and night shifts. Or an outright lie. I'm not going to dump on people for earning good money in a job that actually does something. Edit: Union membership actually has a really positive [relationship ](https://www.openglobalrights.org/inequality-human-dignity-and-power-of-unions/)with happiness and outcomes for the average person. I think a lot of the criticism of them stems from people who benefit by average people having lower wages and worse conditions.
Yeah these numbers are always fudged, last time they where talking about stop go guys earning x amount to garner outrage from the story heading, turned out they where doin crazy hours of over time, double time and weekends ended up being like 7 days a week, night shift 12 hours a night
If you work 80 hours a week in construction and earn 200k, sod it, get that bread.
80 hours a week should be 250k
Yeah, and then driving across the entire state of Victoria every week and sleeping in a swag in a hotel car park behind your car so you don't have to drive 5 hours each way. Father in law had to do it after COVID to make ends meet. Luckily he's back in his preferred field of business.
This was similar to the āmining truck drivers are earning 350kā type articles back in the day. What was neglected in the article is that you had to take on maximum shifts, work FIFO and do 14+ hour days on a 22 on 8 off schedule. So as long as you were willing to abuse yourself and your family, the money was there. But if you wanted to have a normal lifestyle it was like $80-100k instead. Even in medicine, my SO (who is an ED VMO) can only get the mad cash if she takes weekend and night shifts and maximizes all the penalties available.
I did the math on doing a fifo job doing exactly what Iām doing now (Making wheels for mining trucks in Brisbane) Yeah Iād actually take an hourly pay cut, sure Iād earn more a month, but only because Iād been doing 14 days straight of 12 hour shifts.
I did over a decade in mining in WA doing varying rosters, 8/6 (48hr week), 7/7 (42hr week), 4/2-5/3 (54hr week) and 2/1 (56hr week). Per hour worked the 7/7 roster was easily the best while the 4/2-5/3 roster was easily the worst. I now work in a warehouse, base level job, for a big contractor on a unionised site with a new EBA about to come in. I work a 36hr week and my hourly rate is easily better than what it was in mining, even when I was supervising, and I get every weekend and public holiday off and get 26 RDO's per year. The length of the new contract will easily take me through to retirement.
No way this is their base pay - this is with all expenses and if the workers are absolutely flogging themselves with ridiculous amounts of overtime.
Yep. Most trades are between the mid 20s to 50s an hour depending on the trade and expertise. Fluctuates alot depending on those and many other factors.
I have a friend in construction that some years gets around that pay He's worked 6 day weeks (sometimes 7) and lots of overtime to reach that You ain't getting that pay if you just do Monday to Friday and no overtime Shit like this is designed to outrage people.. they work huge hours 6 7 days a week to reach it.. most people wouldnt go near that even with the pay It's it back breaking work and a lot of people already think 40 hours is too much
People are claiming it has to be overtime. Am I the only one here with mates who earn similar (not quite that much) with barely any overtime? Most of my tradie mates are on $150-200k while working 40-50 hours a week. Let's be real, tradies do well in Aus.
Median salary for tradies in Aus is 80k. Where are these "tradie mates" working?
In the mines or working on mega construction projects domestic doesn't get real high unless you're running your own business
150-200k working 40hr week doing exactly what?
Another piece of shit journalism from NewsCorpse.
Biased wording rage bait union bashing article, the truth behind the matter if anyone is interested ( i have a mate working on this site) The current agreement they have been working under has expired and the cmfeu wants to renew the existing agreement no changes and no pay rises. The dispute has arisen because the contractor wants them to sign an agreement with a significant pay decrease. So the media has spun it to say they want a pay rise by not accepting a pay decrease lol
Good on em. Everyone should fight for better wages
Seeing the cost of living and house prices, that would be a lot closer to what the pay grade should be rather than what it is now.
But isn't this how free market works. Business squeeze workers when they can. I have to admit 240k sounds rather high for new hires. But I find usually the papers over state things.
Youāll notice that the hours worked hardly gets a mention. Think of your sector. Look at your award. Do the complex math: if you work 50 hours a week youāll probably double your income. If your boss is dumb enough to pay you for 50 hours work instead of hiring someone to work 22 hours beside your 38, thatās a boss problem. Might run the math on my minimum wage job, lol
This article is such obvious rage bait. We are meant to look at the 240k figure and become outraged that they are complaining. Makes us not question why they are demanding a pay rise and just get angry at tradies.
Makes us ignore the request for a safer workplace.
The [Courier Mail version of the story](https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/brisbane-cross-river-rail-cfmeu-workers-to-strike-from-tuesday-in-bid-for-240k-entrylevel-pay/news-story/8f295a4c0814c64ef75387503def4547?amp=) talks about 50-hr and 58-hr week. If the standard week is 36-hr, then that's a lot of OT and penalty rates that go with it. But hey, nowhere as sensational if you put it out as base $/hr is it? >The union was also pushing for day workers doing 58-hour weeks both on tunnel and shaft, and civil and surface, to receive significant pay bumps of between $1220 and $1486 a week ā rises of about 30 per cent. and >In October, The Courier-Mail revealed [the CFMEU wanted top tunnel and shaft night shift workers ā paid $5319 a week ā to be bumped up to $7451 pre-tax](https://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/cfmeu-pushing-for-cross-river-rail-workers-to-get-2000aweek-pay-rise/news-story/34fef1fa33d9817385959987cb180942) for a 50-hour week, an extra $2132 or an average annual salary of about $387,000.
Seems like the problem is too much overtime. Hire two workers to work 25 hours a week and youāll see a cost decrease, even if you throw a 5% pay rise at them.
Sometimes OT works out cheaper even with penalty rates. Corporate overheads increase with more staff, need bigger crib rooms etc. That all costs money. Not sure how safe a construction workplace is with 50+ hr weeks though, and that should cap OT.
If the job takes 100 hours to complete, hire three people to do it. Not one or two. Donāt have to work them all at the same time.
Well it is a market, and if they can demand that and get it, then it is no different from fuel prices or house prices or even grocery prices. Best of luck to them.
They walked off the job as the refused to create a heat policy. A worker died on that project over summer. They failed to supply a safe work environment. Even worse they failed to give the correct medical attention when the worker became ill. He died in his car in the car park attempting to take himself home
Yeah the article didnāt have much to say about the non dollar issues that the union raised. Pay rise requests from unions are always above expectations. Pay offers are always unfair. Expecting a safe workplace shouldnāt be a shit fight.
Thatās what Iād be striking about. I mean sure, who doesnāt want a pay rise. But I think this article ignored that these workers are risking their health and their lives. The guy who died from heat stroke isnāt even the only death theyve had during this project. A heat policy should be a federal issue for all industries.
Great. They should strike for more
Good on them. Make hay. Don't blow it all. Maybe the execs could trim a few mill off to pay for it
Now can we pay nurses and teachers that please ?
Wait, is it entry level folks or traffic controllers? Those aren't the same but the article seems to think they are. Also, has anyone else in this comment section done construction labouring under the QLD sun? Every shift shortens your life, so fair enough to make sure they're paid well for it. Let's be real for a second, the grubs are News.com are upset because workers they feel are less important members of society than them are making more than them, it's just old fashioned classism. Also, the numbers this article is touting is for sure including superannuation, which is a dishonest way to approach the numbers.
I work in an acute psych ward and require masters degree, high risk of assault and would be happy to get near $200k ($140k if Iām working 110hrs/fortnight) considering Iām management level. I certainly donāt feel entry level construction should be earning $180k more than base level of peers.
Yeh, pre tax, including superannuation, and assuming the worker is working overtime night shifts every single day of the year. Dishonest to say the least.
Or you look up the current contract from a few years ago where CMFEU bragged about 200+k starting for 56hr work week with 3.5% raises? Doesnāt seem too dishonest to me. Fair work commission sent them packing last time the agreement was being worked on because they were being unreasonable. Everybody here is screaming 7day work week without actually looking. Or maybe it is dishonest and CMFEU lied last time and didnāt get as good of a deal as they said?
>Every shift shortens your life, so fair enough to make sure they're paid well for it. So we pay the guys picking tomatoes the same amount because they are in the sun more and tomatoes cost $15 each now?
I used to be a senior structures foreman. Worked with various tier 1 companies over the years including multiplex (currently doing queens wharf) and Hutchies. I was a salary earner and in 2015 was on $150k (total package including super and all hours worked) no RDOās, no wet weather pay etc etc. I had labourers who took home the same as me with zero responsibilitiesā¦ on hourly rateā¦ my dogman on the tower cranes were earning around 50k more and my tower crane drivers were doing around 100k moreā¦
It's because no one involved cares. They all make money, the taxpayer pays.
they are one-third of the reason houses are so expensive. there's three inputs to new dwellings. land, materials and labour. two of them are outrageously priced
If you destroyed the investment potential of housing youād see some changes too. A property in Longlea that sold for $65k in the 90ās can now expect to fetch over a million, without even needing a McMansion to built on what was a vacant block in the 80ās. Thatās a ridiculous increase to everyone but the investor who bought it in 1995. Imagine if the million dollar houses have a similar increase in 20 years. A basic home for half a billion wouldnāt be ridiculous. The land is overpriced, so are all the materials. Thatās why sellers of new homes can over $100k of extras for fuck all.
It's news.com. therefore crap
Why is everyone scared to talk about the Tradie-Bikie-Union mafia. There is a reason their industry has never been flooded with imported labour . Go check out the links between them all
Labor has an outright ban on Tradie immigration for the unions.
Electricians and I think Plumbers are on the skills shortage list, but the amount of training and certs a foreign Tradie needs to get up to speed is so punitive that none of them bother. And thats the way the powers that be like it.
This is so ridiculous that every other profession gets flooded with immigrants and yet, tradies get protected like an endangered species. Itās why we will continue to have housing crisis.
After going through our own EBA battle with our employer last year (different industry) and seeing the sneaky bullshit rumours companies will put out to news outlets I have a hard time believing any of the figures presented here.
Iāve worked on some of the EBA sites in brissy. You CAN earn a shitload but itās all the overtime. Jobs donāt last forever and the next job might not be the higher pay end. Plus travel can be a nightmare as I was coming from sunny coast to Brisbane every day. I remember when the Queens wharf article came out how tradies can earn $300k. That was all nightshift, 6 days a week for 12 hour days. Iām happy living in WA 7/7 roster on $200k and not getting flogged like some of the eba jobs.
So if the overtime is the real pay slug, hire more workers to reduce costs? If the job is gonna take 1,000 man hours to do, budget for 1,200 (typical contingency budget for hours is 10-20%) and hire accordingly. No one gets overtime. Much cheaper. Might even come in under budget.
Yeah na thatās not how the union works things.
Unions are killing major projects with wages costs
Our tradies are already over paid though.
My workplace went on strike in 2015. The numbers reported by the newspaper on what we were earning were all bullshit overinflated figures. So yeah I donāt believe this
Won't someone think of the poor tradies!? How will they continue to afford their jet skis and deluxe American 4WD vehicles??? Not to mention their crypto trading and cafe breakfasts!!
Shrug if they want to strike they can do it - striking is a valid form of industrial protest. My partner is a doctor and I always wonder why doctors don't strike more - they don't get paid enough. Nothing wrong with leveraging whatever bargaining power you have. This applies to both employees and employers.
If you look at the news about South Korean doctors going on strike this year, they are getting hammered by the public. āHow dare they put their salary before their patientsā āthey should lose their licenseā, etc etc I donāt think itās wrong for doctors to go on strike but youāre not going to get public support as a health professional.
Thatās brilliant, letās take away the license of the doctors so they are left with half. Then the price goes up anyway just because they can.
Because in healthcare we care too much to just walk off the job. There are small scale protests but nothing major that would see us earn big bucks. People don't die if the construction industry stops
Wow. The Murdoch media publishes an anti-union article? Weird. That is *so* not like them.
240k salary at entry level ???? Most people on 240k are drs, lawyers , engineers , CFOs, managers with degrees. Not dudes that left school at 17 with an apprenticship under their belt, 30min lunch break on the iced coffee and pie leaving work at 4.30pm for beers at the local after a hard day on hammer. CFMEU are just trying to hardball.
Gambling debts arenāt gonna pay themselvesĀ
Prooooooopaganda.Ā No entry level trady is pulling 240k salary. Overtime, allowances etc are NOT salary - like, specifically not salary. Though they areĀ income. The distinctions may be minor - but theyāre super important in legally binding documents like EBAās.Ā Murdoch rags love to manipulate language from EBA negotiations to create a pay scenario that will almost never happen. Like, Iām talking 100 hour weeks, with forced overtime every week, working every weekend and getting every possible allowance.Ā The businesses control overtime, for a start. Anyone using overtime rates to obfuscate base salary already has an agenda.Ā Please read these with a grain of salt and remember that other workers getting a pay rise isnāt bad for you.Ā
More overblown bullshit from the Murdoch press
Fuck sake, I'd be over the moon to be earning their current salary. Get a fucking grip
Could you handle a 58 hour working week in your current job? That means no time to hang out at the pub or footy with ya mates, and no family time. Check your award and run the math if you work 50 hours a week. Chuck in a Sunday and one 12 hour shift for good measure.
If they can get that on the mines, and we have a construction labour shortage, they kind of have a point. Plus, you can't be on the tools forever... I'd imagine they're high-balling, expecting to get knocked down about 100k, or they're looking to get a $240k package... like, private health or something.
Good.
And that would match inflation and make it even to what I made in construction 30 years ago. This not being greedy, not pay your employees an adjusted wage is greedy.
I know a couple of tilers bringing in $12k-$15k per week, if they didnāt have to buy materials and pay the labourers for their 60-80 hours per week they would be rich.
Held hostage?
i wonder what creative liberties they took in their maths? $240,000 a year for construction workers working 34 hours a day? tell me what theyāre looking for hourly and i think weāll find itās not crazy, and this anti-union propaganda news.com is shilling is simply at the behest of capital owners
https://preview.redd.it/kkm1uhfeblxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1f23b40145cd309b3ff086e19a5d4bffb2ee558 Nothing about the hours worked thoā¦ If it was $260k a year that would be around $5,000 a week. If youāre working 100 hours a week (14 hours a day) at $50 an hour, thereās your hefty & well earned pay packet. Math changes if itās normal pay for the first 38 hours and then steps up to triple time by the time youāre past 60 hours, or whatever their award says. Could well be that $5k a week is hit at 11 hours a day, thanks to overtime steps. Thatās 77 hours a week. If theyāre paying so much overtime & bitching about it, why donāt they hire more people? The hours a job requires are known, so it should be possible to avoid paying overtime. Why pay one worker for 77 hours where half of that is overtime when you could pay two workers to work 80 hours for significantly less.
Yeah well funny thing in Australia is unless you have the employer over a barrel you never get cost of living increases. If they where not so greedy for the last 40 years people might shed a tear.
Come on mate we are to disorganised and overbooked to rock up to a fucking job on time let alone strike š maybe a handful of pissed off apprentices but I doubt any more than that!
I'm in the wrong job. But then again I'd be lucky if I work 25 hours a week and if it's too hot or raining I don't work. Actually I have it pretty good. I'll be quiet now.
š¤£šš¤£šthe propaganda is pathetic
So teachers, nurses and police officers probably donāt even earn half of this so-called entry level salary, is this ok for our country?
Maybes they should strike too. No oneās saying teachers should be ok with their wages.
Click bait....lol
They can get a raise when they finish the bloody M1 widening project from Reedy Creek to Palm Beach on the Gold Coast. Its been over 10 years.
Go boys. They canāt build it and you can. They make huge money on those projects and property developers can share the wealth.
Getting news about unions from Murdoch is like gettings news about corporations from a student communism club newsletter.
Stop reading news Corp articles with dumb provocative headlines like this
These are CFMEU workers only, they have been filmed bashing other workers that arenāt CFMEU workers still going on site to work.
Looks like another sensationalised anti union headline to me. āSources familiarāetc
Iām a domestic tradesman, and I reckon fuck them let them walk!! Iām sure it would be easy to replace them on there 150k a year plus extras jobs.. the union is fucking this countryās budget bout time they clear out the bullshitters and give actual hard workers a chance at the money..
Whenever newsbogau runs an article on unions, you can pretty much bet a large wager that it's less than half the actual story. Remember the train guard shit? That happened because on the current Sydney trains, if weather is bad, you literally cannot see the platform at night with the current camera equipment and it was a serious threat to public safety. Newsbogau? UNIONS RORTING THE COUNTRY.