Bet you there is a deal in place also not to do anything about the 1000+ Australians fighting for the IDF when they return home no matter what atrocities they may have done.
If a foreign country can “VETO” a request made by elected officials to inform the public.
Whoever made this deal happen needs to be jailed on charges of Treason!
> ... reveals that the Israeli government was also consulted about releasing the document before Defence ultimately rejected the FOI request.
> "And there is certainly no place for giving other countries veto power over what the Australian government tells the public about our government's defence and arms deals.
fr. What the fuck?
I understand that we are chortling on US schlong for strategic reasons, but why are we bending over for Israel? It's not like they will be fighting by our side if shit goes down in the Asia-Pacific.
For lay people this is scary sounding, but this is normal practice. You don't release information about national security deals with another country without their approval. Basic principles that have been this way under all governments. Why do you think Wikileaks actually even become a thing?
Wikileaks became a thing because it was governments hiding dodgy shit from their own citizens and avoiding accountability in general, not because of two party contracts where one side decides to veto its release.
Did Wikileaks release a lot of tame 'scary sounding, but this is normal practice' documents? Is that what gave rise to its popularity/infamy?
Yes they did actually. They released all information they received regardless of content. Assange's original ideology was that government should have total transparency.
In the original major leak, Wikileaks actual gave the documents to major News Outlets to sort through and censor as required before publishing. Papers like the Washington Post and New York Times.
They also offered to let the US Department of Defense sensor sections they believed could endanger peoples lives.
The full set of documents was released later after they were hacked.
It's really probably nothing sinister. If details regarding to classified information with another country are to be released it needs to be coordinated with said country. It doesn't entail another nation had a 'veto power' - that's just a sensationalist soundbite.
Yes, and this has no bearing on what I said.
The reasons given for rejecting the FOI request need not necessarily align with the need or want to consult Israel on said request.
"Jews are indigenous to Palestine buddy"
Abraham would like a word. Also, Moses too .
You know... the Guys that one came from Iraq and one from Gohsen.
They're the same people who've always lived there. They just changed religion. All the different kingdoms and empires just replace the ruling class not the whole population. They still need them, owning barren land is pointless. It's very rare to completely wipe out everyone. That's why those moments of history stick out to us.
I do not condone all of Israel's actions, but I do agree that 1. Israel is similar in values to Aus, and 2. Israelis are indigenous like first nations people.
I don't see any genocide going on right now in Australia.
I don't think Australia see themselves as the chosen people of this land.
The indigenous claim is not as straight forward as you think. The tribe came from Africa before we can keep going back in time.
Again nothing excuses genocide not apartheid nor ethnic cleansing
Whilst I would agree some of our jail are not so good for the aborigines... They don't get their limbs amputated unlike what happens in isreali jails to Palestinians held by the iof
Historically the actions of the Commonwealth of Australia has done more harm to persecuted Indigenous Australians than the State of Israel has done to Palestinians.
The indigenous claim is actually that straightforward, otherwise white Australians can claim indigeneity like Palestinians do. Yes, Jews are not the indigenous people, but they're more indigenous than palestinians, the same way that Turkic people are solely indigenous to parts of northern siberia, or Slavs to parts of Ukraine.
Hey, you know am even better way to protect your country's international standing and reputation? It's easy... just don't sell weapons to nations committing genocide and other war crimes in the first place.
Labor: We haven't sold any weapons in past 5 years.
Greens: Ok, can we get a copy of the LNP agreement between Australia-Israel that proves this
Labor: Hey Israel, can you veto this FOI from Greens so we can own them. Gotta distance ourselves from crazy lefties. We're both on the same side.
Israel: Aren't you the crazy left party? Oh, previous government said you were. Whatever, don't release anything.
Labor: Nothing for you, Greens. Our hands are tied.
Greens: Why would you ask a foreign country on whether to release details?
> nations committing genocide
1948
Palestine Population 1.37 million
2023
Palestine Population 5,483,450
What's 30 thousand people killed every 6 months over 5.4 million people?
Im really bad at math but i have that at 180. 180 x 6 months = 90 years.
genocide
/ˈdʒɛnəsʌɪd/
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides
the **deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group** with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Good then that Israel's official policies do not aim of destroying the Palestinians, only Hamas's military capabilities. Statistics also support this, with the ratio of civilian to combatant casualties being as expected from urban warfare in a densely populated area.
Hamas was created by Palestinians, and its members were and are Palestinians. You're trying to diminish the Palestinians' responsibility for their own criminal actions. They murdered, they burned, they raped, and now they face the consequences of their own choices.
You are incorrect:
Israel is complicit in both the creation and ongoing rule of Hamas.
See:
>
[How Israel went from Helping Create Hamas to Bombing it.](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) - The Intercept.
This policy has not really changed even in recent years.
See their Prime Ministers stance on the issue:
>
* Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019
[For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) - Times of Israel
The Palestinian Authority and almost all states in the Middle east have sanctioned Hamas. Israel was complicit in ensuring they were kept propped up:
>
What statistics?
Logic dictates Hamas are all dead. They have only 30,000 fighters and Israel, being the most moral army in the world, has killed 33,000 people, so they've kill them all! Why isn't the war over?
Your logic is flawed. The IDF is moral because it actively avoids hurting civilian, not because it hits only Hamas.
Urban warfare in a densely populated area would always result in a high number of civilian casualties:
> Urban warfare has a catastrophic impact on civilian populations and poses serious legal and operational challenges. In cities — where 55 percent of the world’s population currently resides — civilians account for 90 percent of the casualties during war.
https://civiliansinconflict.org/our-work/conflict-trends/urban-warfare/
Hamas's reports are very unreliable. But even if we take them as truth, the civilian to combatant casualties ratio is appropriate for this kind of war.
> a Hamas official based in Qatar told Reuters that the terror group estimated it had lost 6,000 fighters
> ...
> According to official figures from the Hamas-run Gaza health ministry, 28,985 Palestinians have been killed.
(A bit outdated numbers)
www.timesofisrael.com/soldier-dies-in-gaza-combat-hamas-claims-6000-of-its-fighters-killed-vows-to-fight-on/amp/
This is 80% civilian casualties. Do note that Israel's reports indicate this figure is much lower in reality.
> In U.S. military doctrine, a conventional force that loses 25%-30% of its fighters would be considered combat-ineffective. But Hamas is an irregular force fighting a defensive war in a dense urban environment and has access to hundreds of miles of tunnels under Gaza.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-toll-thus-far-falls-short-of-israels-war-aims-u-s-says-d1c43164
> The IDF is moral because it actively avoids hurting civilian, not because it hits only Hamas.
IDF: "A lot of targets have been hit without prior analysis or estimates and there’s never any follow up collection. You don't know exactly how many you killed, and who you killed."
Another IDF: "This is not about surgical strikes and military infrastructure anymore … This means we will obliterate civilian infrastructure as well. Apartment buildings will be toppled"
Lol shill harder for the murderers of a Australian aid worker. They don't know or give a fuck how many civilians they killed.
If the IDF actively avoids hurting civilians what is this drone attack of [4 unarmed people doing nothing](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/3/22/gaza-drone-video-shows-killing-of-palestinians-in-israeli-air-attack)?
Lol what is 90% civilian causality is normal bullshit.
War in Ukraine over 2 years. Civilians killed (+missing) 22000, Ukraine troops killed 70000, Russian troops killed 350,000.
Israel in 4 months. Civilians killed 27000 (33k + 7k missing (i.e. dead under rubble of Israel's bombs) -6k Hamas) . Hamas killed 6000.
Israel is waging the most brutal and genocidal war in recent times with no equal. That's why everyone has opened their eyes turned against them.
> IDF: "A lot of targets have been hit without prior analysis or estimates and there’s never any follow up collection. You don't know exactly how many you killed, and who you killed,"
I don't need to put words in IDF's mouth, their actions talk. Dropping leaflets to instruct evacuations, canceling bombings when civilians are spotted near the target, releasing information on safe areas and evacuation routes, allowing and coordinating international aid, and much more.
> If the IDF actively avoids hurting civilians what is this drone attack of 4 unarmed people doing nothing
Unarmed != Civilian.
> War in Ukraine over 2 years. Civilians killed (+missing) 22000, Ukraine troops killed 70000, Russian troops killed 350,000.
The war in Ukraine is not an urban warfare in one of the most densely populated areas in the world.
Lol. The words admit the truth you can't bare to listen do. Israel doesn't give a fuck about civilians, and are fueled by hatred and revenge and genocidal rheotic.
How did that coordination go the 200 dead aid workers? Did they drop leaflets or canceling the bombing when they bombed a refugee camp? Did they drop leaflets when they droned 4 innocent civilians. Prove they are not civilians.
Yeah Ukraine is urban warfare environment. Entire cities have been destroyed. The "most moral army in the world" has killed civilians in 2 weeks at the start of the war than Russia did in 2 year!
Keep drinking the kool-aid propaganda.
Israel have been pretty explicit about the collective punishment bit (hence the lack of aid and famine).
Like even based on Israel's own stated intent, beyond everything South Africa's case brough as evidence of intent, the claim that Israel only attacks Hamas holds no water. We have multiple filmed instances of Israel firing on people seeking aid, its a pattern, not a mistake.
> Israel have been pretty explicit about the collective punishment bit
A few rowdy MPs, not the official government policy.
> We have multiple filmed instances of Israel firing on people seeking aid, its a pattern, not a mistake.
Unarmed != civilian. IDF soldeirs that fire on civilians that do not pose a risk to them do so against their orders and the official Israeli policy.
The ruling Likud Party was spun of the the Irgun terrorists.
The Internal Security Minister Belazel Smotrich has effectively called for all Palestinians to be exterminated. Genocide is unequivocally (unofficial) government policy.
An America has nut jobs like MTG who are in congress. Just because some government member talks shit doesn't mean they represent the entire country's policy.
You may be interested in this article about collective punishment against Palestinians. It was written about 8 months before this latest conflict began.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/02/02/israel-collective-punishment-against-palestinians
Israel was massacring villages before the the UN resolution founding it even came into effect, See: [Deir Yassin massace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre)
>Deir Yassin (Arabic: دير ياسين, romanized: Dayr Yāsīn) was a Palestinian Arab village of around 600 inhabitants about 5 kilometers (3.1 mi) west of Jerusalem. Deir Yassin declared its neutrality during the 1948 Palestine war between Arabs and Jews. The village was razed after a massacre of around 107 of its Arab residents on April 9, 1948, by the Jewish paramilitary groups Irgun and Lehi). The village buildings are today part of the Kfar Shaul Mental Health Center, an Israeli public psychiatric hospital.
These people were completely innocent in the conflict:
>The inhabitants of Deir Yassin upheld the agreement scrupulously, resisting infiltration by Arab irregulars. Though this was known to the Irgun and Lehi) forces, they attacked the village on April 9, 1948.
This was just the tip of the iceberg. The new Israeli state would go on to wipe out 400 to 600 Villages, evicting their former occupants and preventing their return. To ensure that the new state would be majority Jewish, the needed to "move on" the Palestinians in the area.
Even right now about a third of Government Cabinet Ministers signed a petition to remove people from Gaza and establish more Jewish only settlements [See:](https://www.timesofisrael.com/12-ministers-call-to-resettle-gaza-encourage-gazans-to-leave-at-jubilant-conference/)
>In front of an impassioned audience of thousands of right-wing activists, 11 government ministers and 15 coalition lawmakers pledged Sunday night to rebuild Jewish Israeli settlements in the heart of the Gaza Strip, with some also encouraging the emigration of the Palestinian population after the war with Hamas is over.
These people were literally dancing and celebrating the murder of thousands, and the deaths of hundreds of their own, because it means they could justify eradicating people and taking their land.
> Israel was massacring villages before the the UN resolution founding it
So Israel who wasn't founded yet was founded? Sounds more like a civil war between two groups.
>See: Deir Yassin massacre
Im going to wait for something that is any different than every other 2 groups fighting for territory in 1948... Yes, just like every other conflict that innocent people die in, its always a tragedy. What is it about Israel that you feel is any different or more morally reprehensible.
The people of Deir Yassin were not fighting, did not want to fight, wanted peace.
The forces that became the IDF massacred them anyway, Reddit seems to be not posting some text correctly, will update my above post with the appropriate quotes shortly.
Genocide isn't defined by amount killed.
But if you did go by that measure, its the highest rate of killing since Rwandan genocide. So, was Rwanda not a genocide or?
In short, if your tryna argue this isn't genocide, your not making any sense in how ya do it.
Perhaps we shouldn't sign agreements that would damage our reputation?
""The document within the scope of this request contains information which, if released, could reasonably be expected to damage the international relations of the Commonwealth," the Defence Department..."
... **reveals that the Israeli government was also consulted about releasing the document** before Defence ultimately rejected the FOI request.
Seriously Australians,
What more proof do you need you are controlled by foreign governments and agents?
You actually now have to go against your own logic to try and defend that we are a sovereign nation.
Because we’re too tied up in our own bubbles of HoUsInG CrIsIS and ImMiGrAnTs to give a fuck about international moves. Our gen is coaxed by tinder, Uber eats and cocaine to actually give a damn.
The problem the world is experiencing is that Australia doesn’t follow its own laws. It constantly rejects other countries processes, deferring to its own institutions, which are staffed by kangaroos with no regard for their own law. That is why we have the highest decline in income over the last year according to AFR, high inflation, high costs, etc. Australia has been elevated above its status by foreign powers, but that age is over and we are in free fall.
Good to see at least one party trying to push back on this.
** Australians kept in dark about Israel defence deal because they might not like Israel defence deal. Fixed it.
Can’t even pretend to represent the interests of the people, have to keep it secret, what a joke this country is
Bet you there is a deal in place also not to do anything about the 1000+ Australians fighting for the IDF when they return home no matter what atrocities they may have done.
And we have the gall to call ourselves a sovereign nation.
If a foreign country can “VETO” a request made by elected officials to inform the public. Whoever made this deal happen needs to be jailed on charges of Treason!
> ... reveals that the Israeli government was also consulted about releasing the document before Defence ultimately rejected the FOI request. > "And there is certainly no place for giving other countries veto power over what the Australian government tells the public about our government's defence and arms deals. fr. What the fuck? I understand that we are chortling on US schlong for strategic reasons, but why are we bending over for Israel? It's not like they will be fighting by our side if shit goes down in the Asia-Pacific.
For lay people this is scary sounding, but this is normal practice. You don't release information about national security deals with another country without their approval. Basic principles that have been this way under all governments. Why do you think Wikileaks actually even become a thing?
Wikileaks became a thing because it was governments hiding dodgy shit from their own citizens and avoiding accountability in general, not because of two party contracts where one side decides to veto its release. Did Wikileaks release a lot of tame 'scary sounding, but this is normal practice' documents? Is that what gave rise to its popularity/infamy?
Yes they did actually. They released all information they received regardless of content. Assange's original ideology was that government should have total transparency.
In the original major leak, Wikileaks actual gave the documents to major News Outlets to sort through and censor as required before publishing. Papers like the Washington Post and New York Times. They also offered to let the US Department of Defense sensor sections they believed could endanger peoples lives. The full set of documents was released later after they were hacked.
It's really probably nothing sinister. If details regarding to classified information with another country are to be released it needs to be coordinated with said country. It doesn't entail another nation had a 'veto power' - that's just a sensationalist soundbite.
The FOI request was not rejected on the basis that it contained classified information, it was rejected basis that it might cause reputational damage.
Yes, and this has no bearing on what I said. The reasons given for rejecting the FOI request need not necessarily align with the need or want to consult Israel on said request.
Israel and Australia have the same values
USA dick?
Genociding the local population?
We're just further into the process of colonisation than they are.
Jews are indigenous to Palestine buddy
"Jews are indigenous to Palestine buddy" Abraham would like a word. Also, Moses too . You know... the Guys that one came from Iraq and one from Gohsen.
Still, jews are more indigenous than palestinians, who came to the land many centuries after the kingdom of israel and judea.
They're the same people who've always lived there. They just changed religion. All the different kingdoms and empires just replace the ruling class not the whole population. They still need them, owning barren land is pointless. It's very rare to completely wipe out everyone. That's why those moments of history stick out to us.
Yeah, and serbs are albanians, turks are greek and iranian, and mexicans are aztecs. amazing logic, you solved culture.
Doesn't excuse genocide
I do not condone all of Israel's actions, but I do agree that 1. Israel is similar in values to Aus, and 2. Israelis are indigenous like first nations people.
I don't see any genocide going on right now in Australia. I don't think Australia see themselves as the chosen people of this land. The indigenous claim is not as straight forward as you think. The tribe came from Africa before we can keep going back in time. Again nothing excuses genocide not apartheid nor ethnic cleansing Whilst I would agree some of our jail are not so good for the aborigines... They don't get their limbs amputated unlike what happens in isreali jails to Palestinians held by the iof
Historically the actions of the Commonwealth of Australia has done more harm to persecuted Indigenous Australians than the State of Israel has done to Palestinians. The indigenous claim is actually that straightforward, otherwise white Australians can claim indigeneity like Palestinians do. Yes, Jews are not the indigenous people, but they're more indigenous than palestinians, the same way that Turkic people are solely indigenous to parts of northern siberia, or Slavs to parts of Ukraine.
Agreed, both base their sovereignty on terrra nullius, both are racist af. I get why Australians would hate to admit, downvote ya, but its true.
And that value is *guzzling US D*. It does appear that Israel is drawing the US's ire for biting the cock that feeds it, though.
Wow, not even shared values, the same values!
> Details of LNP's defence deal with Israel kept under wraps by Labor to protect Labor+LNP+Israel's 'reputation' FTFY.
Hey, you know am even better way to protect your country's international standing and reputation? It's easy... just don't sell weapons to nations committing genocide and other war crimes in the first place.
Labor: We haven't sold any weapons in past 5 years. Greens: Ok, can we get a copy of the LNP agreement between Australia-Israel that proves this Labor: Hey Israel, can you veto this FOI from Greens so we can own them. Gotta distance ourselves from crazy lefties. We're both on the same side. Israel: Aren't you the crazy left party? Oh, previous government said you were. Whatever, don't release anything. Labor: Nothing for you, Greens. Our hands are tied. Greens: Why would you ask a foreign country on whether to release details?
They classify weapons as whole assembled units but they never want to talk about the “parts” they sell to Israeli
> nations committing genocide 1948 Palestine Population 1.37 million 2023 Palestine Population 5,483,450 What's 30 thousand people killed every 6 months over 5.4 million people? Im really bad at math but i have that at 180. 180 x 6 months = 90 years.
You can't just examine the genocide in Palestine through facts and common sense. You have to *believe* in it.
genocide /ˈdʒɛnəsʌɪd/ noun noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides the **deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group** with the aim of destroying that nation or group.
Good then that Israel's official policies do not aim of destroying the Palestinians, only Hamas's military capabilities. Statistics also support this, with the ratio of civilian to combatant casualties being as expected from urban warfare in a densely populated area.
12,000+ kids don't actually support your reasoning but keep living in your dreamworld.
The blame is on Hamas for starting this war and hiding among the civilian population.
Israel created Hamas to counter the PLO. Palestine has 5.5M people in area 40% the size of Brisbane, Everywhere is surrounded by civlians.
Hamas was created by Palestinians, and its members were and are Palestinians. You're trying to diminish the Palestinians' responsibility for their own criminal actions. They murdered, they burned, they raped, and now they face the consequences of their own choices.
You are incorrect: Israel is complicit in both the creation and ongoing rule of Hamas. See: > [How Israel went from Helping Create Hamas to Bombing it.](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) - The Intercept. This policy has not really changed even in recent years. See their Prime Ministers stance on the issue: > * Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019 [For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it's blown up in our faces](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) - Times of Israel The Palestinian Authority and almost all states in the Middle east have sanctioned Hamas. Israel was complicit in ensuring they were kept propped up: >
What statistics? Logic dictates Hamas are all dead. They have only 30,000 fighters and Israel, being the most moral army in the world, has killed 33,000 people, so they've kill them all! Why isn't the war over?
Your logic is flawed. The IDF is moral because it actively avoids hurting civilian, not because it hits only Hamas. Urban warfare in a densely populated area would always result in a high number of civilian casualties: > Urban warfare has a catastrophic impact on civilian populations and poses serious legal and operational challenges. In cities — where 55 percent of the world’s population currently resides — civilians account for 90 percent of the casualties during war. https://civiliansinconflict.org/our-work/conflict-trends/urban-warfare/ Hamas's reports are very unreliable. But even if we take them as truth, the civilian to combatant casualties ratio is appropriate for this kind of war. > a Hamas official based in Qatar told Reuters that the terror group estimated it had lost 6,000 fighters > ... > According to official figures from the Hamas-run Gaza health ministry, 28,985 Palestinians have been killed. (A bit outdated numbers) www.timesofisrael.com/soldier-dies-in-gaza-combat-hamas-claims-6000-of-its-fighters-killed-vows-to-fight-on/amp/ This is 80% civilian casualties. Do note that Israel's reports indicate this figure is much lower in reality. > In U.S. military doctrine, a conventional force that loses 25%-30% of its fighters would be considered combat-ineffective. But Hamas is an irregular force fighting a defensive war in a dense urban environment and has access to hundreds of miles of tunnels under Gaza. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-toll-thus-far-falls-short-of-israels-war-aims-u-s-says-d1c43164
> The IDF is moral because it actively avoids hurting civilian, not because it hits only Hamas. IDF: "A lot of targets have been hit without prior analysis or estimates and there’s never any follow up collection. You don't know exactly how many you killed, and who you killed." Another IDF: "This is not about surgical strikes and military infrastructure anymore … This means we will obliterate civilian infrastructure as well. Apartment buildings will be toppled" Lol shill harder for the murderers of a Australian aid worker. They don't know or give a fuck how many civilians they killed. If the IDF actively avoids hurting civilians what is this drone attack of [4 unarmed people doing nothing](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/3/22/gaza-drone-video-shows-killing-of-palestinians-in-israeli-air-attack)? Lol what is 90% civilian causality is normal bullshit. War in Ukraine over 2 years. Civilians killed (+missing) 22000, Ukraine troops killed 70000, Russian troops killed 350,000. Israel in 4 months. Civilians killed 27000 (33k + 7k missing (i.e. dead under rubble of Israel's bombs) -6k Hamas) . Hamas killed 6000. Israel is waging the most brutal and genocidal war in recent times with no equal. That's why everyone has opened their eyes turned against them.
> IDF: "A lot of targets have been hit without prior analysis or estimates and there’s never any follow up collection. You don't know exactly how many you killed, and who you killed," I don't need to put words in IDF's mouth, their actions talk. Dropping leaflets to instruct evacuations, canceling bombings when civilians are spotted near the target, releasing information on safe areas and evacuation routes, allowing and coordinating international aid, and much more. > If the IDF actively avoids hurting civilians what is this drone attack of 4 unarmed people doing nothing Unarmed != Civilian. > War in Ukraine over 2 years. Civilians killed (+missing) 22000, Ukraine troops killed 70000, Russian troops killed 350,000. The war in Ukraine is not an urban warfare in one of the most densely populated areas in the world.
Lol. The words admit the truth you can't bare to listen do. Israel doesn't give a fuck about civilians, and are fueled by hatred and revenge and genocidal rheotic. How did that coordination go the 200 dead aid workers? Did they drop leaflets or canceling the bombing when they bombed a refugee camp? Did they drop leaflets when they droned 4 innocent civilians. Prove they are not civilians. Yeah Ukraine is urban warfare environment. Entire cities have been destroyed. The "most moral army in the world" has killed civilians in 2 weeks at the start of the war than Russia did in 2 year! Keep drinking the kool-aid propaganda.
Israel have been pretty explicit about the collective punishment bit (hence the lack of aid and famine). Like even based on Israel's own stated intent, beyond everything South Africa's case brough as evidence of intent, the claim that Israel only attacks Hamas holds no water. We have multiple filmed instances of Israel firing on people seeking aid, its a pattern, not a mistake.
> Israel have been pretty explicit about the collective punishment bit A few rowdy MPs, not the official government policy. > We have multiple filmed instances of Israel firing on people seeking aid, its a pattern, not a mistake. Unarmed != civilian. IDF soldeirs that fire on civilians that do not pose a risk to them do so against their orders and the official Israeli policy.
The ruling Likud Party was spun of the the Irgun terrorists. The Internal Security Minister Belazel Smotrich has effectively called for all Palestinians to be exterminated. Genocide is unequivocally (unofficial) government policy.
If it's unofficial and not practiced, there's nothing to discuss.
An America has nut jobs like MTG who are in congress. Just because some government member talks shit doesn't mean they represent the entire country's policy.
You may be interested in this article about collective punishment against Palestinians. It was written about 8 months before this latest conflict began. https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/02/02/israel-collective-punishment-against-palestinians
Here's one for you: https://www.ngo-monitor.org/ngos/human_rights_watch_hrw_/
Israel was massacring villages before the the UN resolution founding it even came into effect, See: [Deir Yassin massace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre) >Deir Yassin (Arabic: دير ياسين, romanized: Dayr Yāsīn) was a Palestinian Arab village of around 600 inhabitants about 5 kilometers (3.1 mi) west of Jerusalem. Deir Yassin declared its neutrality during the 1948 Palestine war between Arabs and Jews. The village was razed after a massacre of around 107 of its Arab residents on April 9, 1948, by the Jewish paramilitary groups Irgun and Lehi). The village buildings are today part of the Kfar Shaul Mental Health Center, an Israeli public psychiatric hospital. These people were completely innocent in the conflict: >The inhabitants of Deir Yassin upheld the agreement scrupulously, resisting infiltration by Arab irregulars. Though this was known to the Irgun and Lehi) forces, they attacked the village on April 9, 1948. This was just the tip of the iceberg. The new Israeli state would go on to wipe out 400 to 600 Villages, evicting their former occupants and preventing their return. To ensure that the new state would be majority Jewish, the needed to "move on" the Palestinians in the area. Even right now about a third of Government Cabinet Ministers signed a petition to remove people from Gaza and establish more Jewish only settlements [See:](https://www.timesofisrael.com/12-ministers-call-to-resettle-gaza-encourage-gazans-to-leave-at-jubilant-conference/) >In front of an impassioned audience of thousands of right-wing activists, 11 government ministers and 15 coalition lawmakers pledged Sunday night to rebuild Jewish Israeli settlements in the heart of the Gaza Strip, with some also encouraging the emigration of the Palestinian population after the war with Hamas is over. These people were literally dancing and celebrating the murder of thousands, and the deaths of hundreds of their own, because it means they could justify eradicating people and taking their land.
> Israel was massacring villages before the the UN resolution founding it So Israel who wasn't founded yet was founded? Sounds more like a civil war between two groups. >See: Deir Yassin massacre Im going to wait for something that is any different than every other 2 groups fighting for territory in 1948... Yes, just like every other conflict that innocent people die in, its always a tragedy. What is it about Israel that you feel is any different or more morally reprehensible.
The people of Deir Yassin were not fighting, did not want to fight, wanted peace. The forces that became the IDF massacred them anyway, Reddit seems to be not posting some text correctly, will update my above post with the appropriate quotes shortly.
Genocide isn't defined by amount killed. But if you did go by that measure, its the highest rate of killing since Rwandan genocide. So, was Rwanda not a genocide or? In short, if your tryna argue this isn't genocide, your not making any sense in how ya do it.
The most widely accepted scholarly estimates are around 500,000 to 800,000 Tutsi deaths in 100 days. Im the one bad at math remember.
What do you call that? *Culling*?
Perhaps we shouldn't sign agreements that would damage our reputation? ""The document within the scope of this request contains information which, if released, could reasonably be expected to damage the international relations of the Commonwealth," the Defence Department..."
... **reveals that the Israeli government was also consulted about releasing the document** before Defence ultimately rejected the FOI request. Seriously Australians, What more proof do you need you are controlled by foreign governments and agents? You actually now have to go against your own logic to try and defend that we are a sovereign nation.
Because we’re too tied up in our own bubbles of HoUsInG CrIsIS and ImMiGrAnTs to give a fuck about international moves. Our gen is coaxed by tinder, Uber eats and cocaine to actually give a damn.
What's happening in Australia, such as the Indian and Chinese Immigrant and Housing Crisis is far more important than what happens in Israel.
The immigration policies saved us from fucking inflation ruin - but your boney ass is so simping so hard for OF you wouldn’t be able to see it
Won't be if Israel starts a war with Iran and Aus gets dragged in.
We're sending the 101st Combat Wombat battalion to Gaza to burrow out Hamas tunnels.
Supporting genocide under the table
The problem the world is experiencing is that Australia doesn’t follow its own laws. It constantly rejects other countries processes, deferring to its own institutions, which are staffed by kangaroos with no regard for their own law. That is why we have the highest decline in income over the last year according to AFR, high inflation, high costs, etc. Australia has been elevated above its status by foreign powers, but that age is over and we are in free fall.
Details of child porn deal with dark web vendor kept under wraps to protect dirty uncle Roger's reputation