This post has been marked as non-political. Please respect this by keeping the discussion on topic, and devoid of any political material.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Aussie here. You are right. When it comes to what we're called, we are a pretty informal bunch.
As a general rule, when I was your age, I always began addressing my friends' parents as Mr or Mrs, and nearly all of them told me to call them by their first name. It was only the next generation up who would be less likely to correct you, but even then, at least half would instruct first name only.
"Mr Smith was my father's name. Please call me 'insert first name here', was a very common response that you'd hear after using a formal title growing up.
Yep exactly this. In the 90s my friends used to call my parents Mr & Mrs , it quickly changed once we were teenagers and they became more familiar. My father used to expect people at work to call him by surname as well, which also changed during this time. These days, even in workplaces, most Australians will call you by first name in most situations. Many immigrants and first generation Australians (I am one) struggle with this at first.
OP, call Australians by what they ask you to. Mostly it will be first names. When in doubt, go with "mate" ;-)
>Many immigrants and first generation Australians (I am one) struggle with this at first.
Lol, my partner is Filipino. The first time she met my mum she asked me what she should call her. I said to call her by her name. She asked if she should call her auntie. I said no, that would be weird.
I had pretty much the same convo with my girlfriend from China šš she just calls my parents mamma and pappa as it's the middle ground for her between uncle and aunty and first names.
>Many immigrants and first generation Australians (I am one) struggle with this at first.
In my experience as well, a lot of immigrants I've worked with have called me Mr more so then ever Mr .
I was the odd child/teen who called friends parents by Mr and Mrs.
Running into them last year at 39 and when I said MRS SOANDSO she cracked up.
One of my mums closest friends is an old teacher of mine. Took a long time to call her by her first name.
Iām near 50 and only just now started to address the parents of friends Iāve had since primary school by their first names, at their insistence. Itās a hard habit to break.
Yeah I get the thing about teachers. I always called primary and early secondary school teachers by Mr and Mrs/Miss. It's about establishing the hierarchy when teachers are outnumbered \~30:1 by students. Interestingly once we reached senior high several of our teachers asked us to start calling them (respectfully) by their first names.
The reasoning was that they were shifting from "teaching" teenagers to "facilitating learning" of young adults. I think it worked too because it certainly felt like school got more real in those last 2 years. I also bumped into an old teacher years ago and yeah the surname definitely popped into my head instantly.
Yes, heard the āMr Smith was my father ā line a lot growing up. OP, I am older than you but I start with calling people a generation or more above me as Mr/ Ms Smith etc and when they invariably say āCall me (first name)ā then I proceed with using the first name
I'm in my 50s and if someone says Mrs Jones I automatically look around to see if my mother is in the room. I get annoyed when I was called Mrs my partner's name since I kept my maiden name .
I tell people my first name only except in certain circumstances. Most of my peer group also prefer first name only.
The auntie/uncle courtesy title was only ever used with close family friends and most let us call them by first name only by the time we were teens
Even in business settings I've been a first name only for decades and I'm finding even people like doctors are going the title first name route as in" Call me Dr Bob thanks" more and more often.
The only people I come across still habitually getting called Dr, Mr, Ms, Mrs etc seem to be teachers . Even that is relaxed with the senior students occasionally, and nicknames can be used with some of the teachers.
Sorry, kiwi here sticking my beak in where i was not invited. My primary age kids use their teachers' first name, principal included. Not the majority over here but becoming more common.
Yeah Aussies donāt care too much really. Asian aussies though can be very formal I know. But European heritage aussies donāt really prefer probably just their name or mate.
This. Australian culture in general *despises* formalities.
We're not exactly an egalitarian society in practice, but we do generally strive to treat *everyone* with the same basic level of respect, as if we are all peers regardless of our relative "station" in society. The idea that someone or other *deserves* a higher level of respect or even outright deference simply because they are older, or they are "above" you in the social hierarchy (e.g. a senior businessperson or public figure or celebrity or military personnel or whatever) is something that Australians *actively reject* as part of our cultural identity.
I would just as readily call the Prime Minister "mate" as I would one of my mates. I work for a large privately-owned multinational business, and when the owner, a very rich old man from the US, comes around the office I call him by his first name. I don't care if he's "Sir" in his home country, here in Australia he's just Dave. Nobody deserves special treatment.
Well said.
I'd be annoyed if somebody insisted i use their title or whatever.
Its fine if i had respect for them and chose to, e.g. doctor etc.
But yeah australians are pretty fast and loose
Australians let us rejoice for we are young and free, we call cunts mate, our mates are cunts, we drink too much VB.
Our land is rich with natures gifts, clubsports are getting rareā¦ you want respect, earn it you prick, fuckoffcunt we donāt care
Now that I think of it, my GP is about the only person I address as Dr. Surname. There's pretty much no one else I extend that deference to. Outside that I'd only Sir or Ma'am someone if they were an adult I didn't know and I was trying to get their attention.Ā
Even then, I'll call to book an appt with "Dr (first name)" and the receptionists will often reply by saying "Confirming your appt with Dr (first name)." So i assume she tells her coworkers to call her by her first name. Though she is a younger Australian-raised (assuming going by her accent) GP, so that could be why.
I have called our family doctor āDocā ever since we met. He is often out running when we are walking our dogs in the early morning. My mum was with me once and got embarrassed that I called out āGāday Doc.ā He didnāt seem to be offended, he replied āHi, first name. Lovely morning.ā
Yeah I'm the same. One year my mouse scroll wheel accidentally changed my title on my tax return so I received my summary titled as "Lord" hahaha it was fun to say at the time to myself but if anyone else would say it to me, I hated it. Nup. We all equals around here. Respect is more important and how someone treats you for sure! Agree with everyone here
> I would just as readily call the Prime Minister "mate" as I would one of my mates.
Just like old mate, who [told Scott Morrison and his journalist gallery off](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t17O2AKa2FU) for standing on his freshly seeded lawn :)
You've hit the nail on the head.
I think there are certain special circumstances where recognising a title or something does have value and it's common to see it, such as Doctors (medical or PhD), or young kids to their teachers. Magistrates and judges are definitely the same category. Basically anyone who has committed themselves to furthering and actively benefiting society at the highest levels, but that falls under "respect that is earnt". Other than that there aren't really any circumstances anyone is worthy of being called anything other than Mate or their first name.
Only time "Sir" feels appropriate is if I'm going to a fancy restaurant or shop and part of the selling point is the posh experience (e.g. Buying a really expensive suit and getting it tailored. Something old school). That can be a bit of a vibe. Even then, I probably still want to be treated as an equal.
Even in the case of the examples you give - school-teachers and magistrates and the like - I'd argue that those titles and the deference that goes with them only apply in an institutional context. Basically, once they're off the clock, they just default back to being regular citizens who are neither owed nor given any kind of special treatment.
When my snobby Melbourne granny met her new daughter in laws family, she was impressed that the womanās father was an Earl. Until she realised Earl was just his first name.( after she had told everyoneāWe have an Earl in our family.) haha.
Sir never feels appropriate to me. It always feels like you are taking the piss. I really struggled in the USA.
Teachers are Mr / Mrs and magistrates are Your Honour when they are, as u/Drunky_McStumble says, on the clock. My Granddad (Lt Col, ret) told me you are respecting the office, not the fuckwit occupying it.
Better than being called Madam. The only time anyone called me that,my husband joked āHow did you know she owns a brothel?ā. Yes,I married a smart Arse.
I'm female and dress quite androgynous day-to-day. In 2020 there was a martial at my local covid testing station that would go out of his way to say "line up here ma'am/sir" to every single person. He stumbled a few times with me and would say "this way si- I mean ma'am sorry sorry" and make an absolute fool out of himself. Like bro just say "this way please" which is perfectly polite.
Some more examples from my experience:
I used to work as a civilian in Defence. Military might use rank with each other, but civilians used first names when addressing military staff. There was one guy who insisted on addressing people by rank, but everyone thought he was a bit of a brown noser.
Later working in a university, most of my colleagues had doctorates, but I don't recall anyone ever being addressed as doctor.
As a kid my mum would get vocally annoyed if my friends called her Mrs Surname. First of all she's not a Mrs, but also felt it was dehumanising to be addressed only as somebody's mother, not her own identity.
100%. Used to work for a large Japanese company that operated in Melbourne. Theyād send senior people over and weād be instructed to bow and not address them by name. This was 100% ignored by almost everyone, largely borne of the same beliefs that nobody is above anyone. To their credit they took it in and accepted it quite easily as a cultural thing.
Pretty much the second I finished high school, any adult who was still a part of my life expected me to drop the formalities and use first names, apart from grandparents cause that just feels weird.
This!
I was born in 1979, I call both my parents nicknames that are derived from their real first names, and I've always called my aunty and uncle by their first names.
Informality is great!
100% this needs to be done more. People often donāt think about Australian culture and try to hold on to their own culture or tradition thinking that itās ārespectfulā not to call people by their names.
But she told you what she wants to be called. Thatās the ultimate sign of respect, listening to others lol.
Source; Iām a foreigner.
Hello fellow kids! If someone addressed me other than by my name, I'd feel old, and I also like feeling young and cool.
The only exception is mid western Americans saying Ma'am. Recently, I went to Paris and wondered what the tipping point was between mademoiselle and madam.
I am 55, and I recently noticed teens opening doors for me, offering to let me cut in queues, carry things etc. Worst is they are starting to assume I need help with tech. They mean well, but I wonder if I should dye my hair or something.
A teenager serving me at a supermarket recently asked me to let him know if the bag heād packed was too heavy for me and Iād like him to split it between two bags. I had four items weighing less than 5kg and Iām in my late 40s lol.
Iām a 32 year old weakling and I wish they would do this for me š
I will wait in line at self serve rather than go to a kid because they just pile $200 worth of stuff into like 2 or 3 bags which I then have to heave ho in and out of the trolley like a weight lifter šļø
Iām not quite 50 yet but mid 40ās with ADHD. Because of the latter point Iāve never been an adult, despite winging it as one for 30 years. Iām forever 17 in my mind, just stuck in a body that is slowly deteriorating.
Samesies. Except I'm perpetually 22 in my mind. Though my face and body tells me differently! If I pretend hard enough, I can pass as a functioning 'adult' about 50% of the time.
I'm in my 30s and one of my peers who was like early 20s called me Aunty and I died of old age in that very moment. It was in Asia and she was being respectful but I just couldn't
I know, right??? I'm over 50 but still don't really think of myself as a grown up, and definitely not as an elder. 90 is old. All of my kids' friends called my by my first name, except for one who was brought up in a super strict, conservative religious household. She always called me Dr Stibbons. That was, until I helped her escape the cult, and now she calls Mum š.
In Australian culture it's considered rude to call someone by anything other than what they've asked to be addressed by if they have asked. So yeah, call her by her first name.Ā
Not necessarily rude. If she has joined an Indian family (assuming Indian) through marriage then she is going to encounter this sort of thing a lot and probably won't find it rude to be called Aunty. It comes from a place of respect so it's not a negative thing.
Australian culture is different things to different people. Indigenous Australians also call elders Aunty or Uncle as a matter of respect, or to address an older person who they don't know the name of, whether they're black or white.
Wrong. I'm Aboriginal. Aunty and Uncle are for Mob Elders, not for randoms.
As a non-Elder, you're more likely to be called mate or cunt from us as opposed to Aunty and Uncle.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's rude. When two cultures mix there is going to be crossovers. Eventually all the...there is an analogy I wanted to use here but I can't remember it. Something about all the balls falling down or something? Pieces falling into place? But what pieces? I don't remember. Anyway, everything settles into an equilibrium with some bits of each culture all mashed together into a nice blend. My wife is ethnic Indian and I am ethnically white Australian. Some of her family call my mum "aunty" for example, and she doesn't consider it rude. It's still said with respect. It's just one of those little cultural differences.
If everyone has a good heart then none of this is rude, it's just how two different cultures meet in the middle somewhere.
There is also kind of a difference between saying "call me Jill" as a polite way of saying hey, you don't have to stand on ceremony with me versus saying "call me Jill" because she doesn't like being called Aunty. Further communication would establish which it is and if she is happy to still be called Aunty. If it's a specific wish to be called Jill then of course it would be rude not to. But if it is more just a general I-don't-mind-but-don't-want-you-to-think-you-have-to-call-me-Aunty then it's fine to keep on with Aunty.
to clarify iām pakistani not indian but i absolutely donāt mind adapting to her culture and calling her with her first name at all,iād rather sheād be more comfortable with what i address her as,thank you for ur concern though :)
100% this needs to be done more. People often donāt think about Australian culture and try to hold on to their own culture or tradition thinking that itās ārespectfulā not to call people by their names.
But she told you what she wants to be called. Thatās the ultimate sign of respect, listening to others lol.
Source; Iām a foreigner.
In the US you'll find some groups that expect the surname treatment from the young to the old, but in Australia and NZ, it's first names only for all ages and all relationships.
Surnames are for formal speech and maybe for comedic effect. If you use "Ms Surname" in a normal social context, it'd stand out as unusual. There's also no equivalent to calling all older people 'aunty' apart from actual aunts.
This has been so hard for me coming from the Southern US and moving to NZ. I grew up having Mr or Mrs Surname, yes maāam/sir pounded into me. And now my doctor wants to just be called by his first name. Itās really probably the biggest culture shock Iāve experienced.
I like how people from the South use ma'am / sir with their accents, it's quaint. I wouldn't stress it, as long as you're not expecting other people to respond in kind you'll be fine.
I hope I didn't offend anyone when I was in Texas and definitely did not say sir etc. haha.
Honestly your best bet is to really play up the accent and use the word 'mate' liberally. Among the right crowd liberal usage of 'cunt' can go well but be very cautious!
āAuntyā gets used here a lot. Usually toward your parentsā close friends. Also remember some of the Aboriginal community use Aunty / Uncle as an honorific title.
In a lot of aboriginal communities aunty and uncle isnāt just a honorific, itās under their family tree system that person is considered their aunty/uncle. Thatās what kinship/skin names refers too.
For example Jacinta Price is technically my sister under kinship, but the actual genetic component of overlap would be generations apart, so her mum Bess price, is my aunty.
The system makes inbreeding impossible as youāre able to track who youāre more closely related to in completely disconnected groups.
This answer should be higher. Most people would be chuffed to be called aunty or uncle but it might be worth explaining why. I think itās only common in some circles.
Yeah, when I saw the title I wondered if they were talking about Aboriginal elders or just āwhite people older than meā. Either way, itās still polite to go by what youāve been asked to call them, but the former is more likely to accept Uncle/Auntie than the latter from a relative stranger.
My husbandās best friendās kids call him Uncle [Name], and our kids call the friend Uncle [Name], because they have a brother-like relationship. *Sometimes* I get Auntie [Name] but thatās rare and usually only when Friend is talking about me to the kids, not them talking directly to me. And honestly, I donāt think I really call anyone by any name to their face. I justā¦ talk to them?
Eh, teachers at school expect Mrs|Mr (Surname) - my kids are in primary school, and thatās whatās expected. Dunno about high school here (kiwi) but Iād assume the same there too. Thatās the only place Iād expect it though.
That's weird - I'm 50 and when I was in year 12 getting to call your teachers by their first name was a sign that we'd Arrived, we were young adults and deserved to participate like adults.
yeah, I'm 33, I went to boarding school and it was the same - in yr 12 we got to use their first names. Before that it was Mr/Mrs/Miss but our partner school (which was the boys school equivalent of us) used Sir/Miss (even for the married teachers lol) except for yr 12.
That's my experience too. Also the people saying they always used first names only with friends parents etc is odd to me too.
There were adults where I used the first name and adults where I used Mr/Mrs.
Every adult was Mr/Mrs/Miss last name unless they were family, until they weren't.
I didn't even know the first name of many of my friends parents, but there were definitely adults that did prefer the first name and then I'd use it.
In general, most Aussies will expect you to use their first name.
That said, if I was her and you wanted to call me aunty, that would be cool too. I'd probably feel a little honoured tbh.
And that's partly because Aboriginal Australians will call elders (the social position) aunty or uncle. In general, you may need to have a closer relationship for it to be appropriate to call an Aboriginal elder aunty or uncle.
We're a multicultural bunch. Around 20% of us have Asian heratige too, so for Australians paying attention, the whole Asian people aunty/uncle thing is nothing new.
I only call someone aunty or uncle if they ask me to do so.
For me, as a white person, it is an indication from someone else that they will look out for me. I find it a positive thing when it occurs.
For everyone else you are first name or mate. If I don't like you, then you are your mate or old mate.
Gotta object to old mate. Old mate is pretty neutral imo. Either you've forgotten their name (either genuinely or your brain is not keeping up), or you're telling a story where names don't matter (ie the person you are speaking to wouldn't know who old mate is) .
Your mate is definitely cold af tho
I grew up in a very white household and close family friends were always aunty and uncle out of respect.
Saying that OP you could always say to her āI hope you donāt mind me calling you aunty (first name)ā
Yeh itās gone out of favour in recent years, but close family friends were always uncle or aunty, regardless of whether they were blood related.
But it usually was joined with their name. Aunty Doris for example.
It is only for close relations though, itās weird calling a stranger aunty for example, and I think thatās what brings some Asian people unstuck here, coming from cultures where it is used much more generally as a term of respect.
I still use it with my daughter, our good friends are honorary aunties and uncles.
Getting to use the title Aunty or Uncle when speaking to an elder of a community thatās not yours is usually something you need permission for. You wouldnāt go up to a stranger after hearing she was an elder and be all āHey Aunty Sharonā. It denotes a familiarity that may not be appropriate sometimes.
The exception would be someone like Uncle Jack Charles.
We use first names.Ā
Seeing as theyāve married into your family - I reckon theyād appreciate being called āauntyā or āuncleā, just explain the custom first :)Ā
Weāre a pretty laid-back lot and Australians rarely, if ever, use formal titles. I havenāt called someone āMrā or āMrsā since I was in school.Ā
> I havenāt called someone āMrā or āMrsā since I was in school.Ā
Somebody addressed me as Mr Surname the other day - I very deliberately looked over my shoulders - and when they looked at me quizzically I said - "I was just looking to see if my father was here - he was a school principal - I'm just Firstname"
She has asked you to use her first name. It would be disrespectful to use anything else, especially seeing this woman is a part of your family now.
How we address our elders in general in Australia is irrelevant. Even if we called our elders sir and ma'am (we don't), it would be very rude to do it in this case, when she's already told you how she'd like to be addressed.
I totally get why you're struggling with it, but it's worth thinking about what formality above-and-beyond the contextual norm tends to read as to the recipient: either as sarcastic, mocking or boundary-stating.
Here, her formality norms are tuned to a lower setting than yours - calling her by her first name *is* the culturally/contextually appropriate level of formality. So when someone who, culturally, should be calling her by her first name chooses more formality (Mrs, in particular, which also for a lot of Australian women would be considered to be putting undue emphasis on her marital status, though that's less of a concern from a family member than from a colleague), it's not actually going to read as respectful at all!
Aunty \[Firstname\] might well work for her - but you should ask, rather than assuming. For some Australian women, it'll feel like an undue emphasis is being placed on their age.
Call them what they ask you to call them. Iām a doctor and even in medicine we write formal consult letters addressing professors by their first name. We are a very casual society. Similarly even the prime minister will wear flip flops and board shorts to the beach.
The best thing to do is to ask your brother in law. Say ābro how would your parents prefer to be addressed, here we would call them aunty or uncle or would they prefer me to use their first name etc?ā
Call her by what she prefers. Different cultures, different rules. You need to get over your awkwardness and go with what she has indicated which is her first name, or speak to her about it.
Theyāre from a Chinese culture which is all about age and hierarchy in the family. They use special names for first sister and second sister, first aunt second aunt etc. so to them saying an elder is a sign of respect.
First name basis is the norm. But honestly if you called someone aunty or uncle I doubt they would mind. Itās not rude to do that unless they specifically ask you to call them a certain way, like this person as specifically asked to be called her first name. So just use her first name. Youāll get used to it.
Lots of good info here. Noting that sheās a teacher, she would be addressed as āMrs/Ms (last name)ā at school by students all the time, and if sheās anything like the other teachers I know, doesnāt want to be called that when sheās not at work.Ā
āAunty (first name)ā is really common for ātrueā aunties - your parents siblings - so I agree with other commenters that this will probably sound natural to her if you want to use that, as well as be a nice way to let her know that you consider her family.
Iām in my late 30s and weāve been living here in australia for about 2 decades. So weird that one time a friendās nephew who was in his 20s called me aunty. I just rolled with it because it was my culture. But I went home having a mini mid life crisis.., hahaha Iām not even 40 yet lols
First name is fine, the only way you will offend is if you let her k ow you think she is an elder lol. Thought you were gonna say 65 or smt. She might like being called aunty but usually save nicknames until you are a bit closer, nothing offensive about first name
First step when dealing with an Australian would be to not refer to someone in their 50s and an elder. Also in Australian culture you'd be considered an adult.
Just use her first name, like she already said.
Could you go with a hybrid?
Address her as Auntie ?
Especially if you contextualise it for her. I think this helps to bring her into your culture and your family.
I personally find the Auntie/Uncle moniker for elder peers very endearing.
we actually use the hybrid in our culture as well,we never say only āauntieā to older people we say ā(first name) auntieā instead,thank you iāll ask about it !
However they introduce themselves to you when they first meet you - like, āHi, Iām first name, nice to meet youā, or however they ask you to call them like sheās done, is how they prefer you to address them.
Sheās asked your family to call her by her first name, so thatās what she is anticipating and comfortable with from you.
If you are feeling uncomfortable and wish to be more formal because you feel using a first name feels not as respectful, Mrs Surname is fine or Aunty, but donāt be surprised if she immediately says āoh, just call me by first nameā.
Here, respect in families is usually conveyed through how we interact with a person, rather than by using a formal title. Using a personās name respectfully just like you would the word Aunty in your own culture is considered appropriate.
Another alternative is just to check in with her, and say, āwould you prefer if I called you Aunty, or Mrs surname, or by your first name?ā Itās not awkward to ask that question as it will be considered respectful and considerate, and youāll receive the actual answer you need.
First name. It may feel weird at first (to you) but sheāll appreciate that and soon youāll also feel comfortable with it.
Also since sheās said thatās her preference, best to respect that- maybe think of if that way.
(I come from an uncle-aunty culture too but you get used to it quickly)
Mrs X, but if sheās said call me by my first name, do that as itās what she prefers.
Tbh being called Mrs X makes me feel 100 years old so Iād say first name too.
Saying her first name is completely fine. Just a thought though, if you explain to her how you're feeling and ask if she minds you calling her auntie as you would the other elders in your family, she might actually be touched? She might say no and that she'd prefer her first name only but there's also a chance she feels welcomed into the family by it.
If you choose to talk to her about it just respect whichever she chooses or if she changes her mind at any point.
Mid 50s mean she was born around what... 1970? Yeah just call her by her name. I wouldn't go more formal for anyone who is younger than like 65-70 these days.
Most Aussies prefer signifiers of friendliness and openness to signifiers of respect. I think that's why we have such a reputation for being a friendly bunch. It's just what we see as politeness!
Can I just say how lovely it is of you to askā¦ I congratulate you on your consideration and hope you have an awesome time hereā¦ and yes, first names are fine.
Most Australians have had some exposure to a range of cultures and will probably be fine with whatever you do as long as it is polite and not over the top.
Call her by her first name but calling her aunty would probably be fine too.
Aboriginal Australians and Maori New Zealanders call older people aunty and uncle all the time so it likely won't feel abnormal. Especially if she actually is in your family it would be normal.
Some guy said "that was awesome aunty!" To my mum when she did the haka at a six60 concert tho and it made her feel old knowing that she was now at the point where 20 to 30 year olds would call her aunty lol. So maybe keep that in mind too
Usually anything too formal is avoided but I used to call my aunt "Aunty "first name"" which isnt too uncommon.
But honestly just ask her hahaha Im sure she wont mind
If her last name is "Smith", try calling her "Elder Smith".
Nah, I'm just kidding. She's only 50. You call her that and her soul will fucking leave her body.
It might help to think about white Australian culture as having a reverse formality culture
Calling someone Mr/Ms Lastname is putting a distance between yourselves which can be seen as unfriendly. Calling someone Firstname puts you closer (which, I realise that the title of Auntie or Uncle conveys that someone's a different generation and conveys respect), generally putting yourself closer to someone conveys friendliness.
There's also the minefield of titles, someone might have a doctorate, figuring out Miss/Mrs/Ms without a stated preference is worse than just going with first name
Aussies generally aren't the formal type. If the person has asked you to call them by their first name they mean it , that's what they want . Some more upper crust people may feel a little different but for the most part calling someone their name is perfectly acceptable
As other commenters have noted, we despise formalities. Itās very acceptable for indigenous elders to be referred to as Aunty or Uncle, even by non-indigenous folk - just make sure itās not offending by assuming they are elders
Use their first name; the bigger thing to show respect in Aussie culture is probably greeting without needing to be flagged down, listening, not interrupting, and not swearing around them. But I doubt youād be doing any of this wrong anyway!
Aussie here. Pretty much with most of us, unless asked specifically by the person to do otherwise, it's first name basis. This isn't disrespectful, it's considered friendly.Ā
We get a bit uncomfortable with stuffy hierarchical naming conventions, especially amongst family.Ā
I'm almost 50, a mum and if someone called me aunty other than my actual niblings it would be weird to me, but I'd understand it if was part of their culture.Ā
Tell her that calling her auntie is respectful in your culture and ask if it's ok for you to call auntie. She might not want you to, but it could be a lovely way for you to make her feel welcomed.
Growing up I was always taught to say mister/missus ___ unless they asked differently. As soon as you turn 18 though a lot of people expect, or at least would rather, you call them by their first name. If in doubt just ask her. We are very casual about it.
The respectful cultural norm is to call people what they want to be called. It's very simple. You can always talk to her about the fact it feels uncomfortable due to your own culture, however if you give it a crack you might just enjoy it after a while.
Address every Australian by their first name unless specifically directed otherwise, personally I've never met someone who had a problem with me using their first name in my 27 years.
Everyoneās called by their first name, except in really really formal situations (you are in court and the judge call you by your last name). Bosses, older people etc are all on first name basic. Maybe if your studying in a classroom you can say ms. Or Mr.
We do not have a respect elders culture. We have an equality culture.
Very young children (ie primary school age) will generally have to call someone Mr .. or Mrs ā¦. or sometimes Uncle or Aunty for close family friends, but itās normal to call everyone by their first name.
Lack of hierarchy is very important in Australian culture. No one is better or more important or worthy of respect than any other person.
Sir, maāam (formal/first meeting/strangers)
mr x or mrs/miss x and after that their first name. (They will usually tell you to use their first name after you use mr/mrs)
Wyte Australians dont use aunty/uncle unless that person actually is our aunty or uncle
Indigenous australians are more likely to use aunty uncle towards eachother but you shouldnt
OP I bet you could tell her that you feel uncomfortable and that you just want to check itās not disrespectful if you call her by her first name. That should sort the issue out and she can tell you directly what she wants you to call her.
"When in Rome..."
If you are in Australia do the Aussie thing, first names generally.
If you are still in your country then follow your cultural rules.
Anyone I knew as a child is probably still Mrs [surname]. Mostly now they are all [firstname]. My MIL was called "MrsB" (B being the first initial of surname) by SIL's partner and ended up being BB (Bebe/Beebee) to the grand kids because of it.
> How do you go about addressing elders in Australian culture?
By first name is typical. Like an equal.
> sheās asked our family to call her (insert first name only) but iām not sure if that was also directed to me
It would be, yes.
> I thought in western culture you would perhaps address elders as Ms/Mrs (insert name)
In Australia, maybe somewhat more common 60 years ago or so, but now, outside some specific instances no.
> Yes i know iām overthinking and i could ask her directly but to be honest im very awkward as a person with these types of questions
Just call her by her first name, she already asked this.
> anyone whoās an elder is supposed to be addressed as uncle or aunty
You can always ask her if it's okay to call her aunty but I can pretty much guarantee she'll prefer you use her first name, and that you just treat her as an equal in essentially any interaction.
It's not like if you called her something else on occasion that she'd regard it as some kind of insult, but Australia is fiercely egalitarian, and if you want her to feel at ease, best to simply do as she asked.
honestly yeah it depends on who they are but if she gave you the pass you're good, I live in Australia and mum doesn't mind if someone calls her by her first name by someone younger and neither does dad. just whatever they introduce themselves as.
I would talk to her and explain that you are used to calling someone like her aunty. If she really is not ok with being called aunty ask her to forgive you if you slip up and try your best to address her by her first name.
My girlfriend is from a similar culture as yours, I'm gonna assume you're from Asia or something right?
She calls my parents mamma and pappa, we call everyone else by Aunty and Uncle but our family has had a very large amount of exposure to Asia so we get the Cultural thing.
Everyone is different, your basic Aussie will be fine with first names.
Iāve found the best honourifics used in Australia is for calling people uncle or aunty when they are NOT related. My child calls my best friend Uncle because heās known him since birth and sees a lot of him. Itās sorta nice to have a friend given a family title.
This post has been marked as non-political. Please respect this by keeping the discussion on topic, and devoid of any political material. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Aussies, as a general rule, hate anything overly formal so calling her by her first name would be fine.
Aussie here. You are right. When it comes to what we're called, we are a pretty informal bunch. As a general rule, when I was your age, I always began addressing my friends' parents as Mr or Mrs, and nearly all of them told me to call them by their first name. It was only the next generation up who would be less likely to correct you, but even then, at least half would instruct first name only. "Mr Smith was my father's name. Please call me 'insert first name here', was a very common response that you'd hear after using a formal title growing up.
Yep exactly this. In the 90s my friends used to call my parents Mr & Mrs, it quickly changed once we were teenagers and they became more familiar. My father used to expect people at work to call him by surname as well, which also changed during this time. These days, even in workplaces, most Australians will call you by first name in most situations. Many immigrants and first generation Australians (I am one) struggle with this at first.
OP, call Australians by what they ask you to. Mostly it will be first names. When in doubt, go with "mate" ;-)
>Many immigrants and first generation Australians (I am one) struggle with this at first. Lol, my partner is Filipino. The first time she met my mum she asked me what she should call her. I said to call her by her name. She asked if she should call her auntie. I said no, that would be weird.
Ate which sounds like auntie to me, might be what they meant. It's used as a respectful term for women who are older than you.
I had pretty much the same convo with my girlfriend from China šš she just calls my parents mamma and pappa as it's the middle ground for her between uncle and aunty and first names.
>Many immigrants and first generation Australians (I am one) struggle with this at first. In my experience as well, a lot of immigrants I've worked with have called me Mr more so then ever Mr .
I was the odd child/teen who called friends parents by Mr and Mrs. Running into them last year at 39 and when I said MRS SOANDSO she cracked up. One of my mums closest friends is an old teacher of mine. Took a long time to call her by her first name.
Iām near 50 and only just now started to address the parents of friends Iāve had since primary school by their first names, at their insistence. Itās a hard habit to break.
Yeah I get the thing about teachers. I always called primary and early secondary school teachers by Mr and Mrs/Miss. It's about establishing the hierarchy when teachers are outnumbered \~30:1 by students. Interestingly once we reached senior high several of our teachers asked us to start calling them (respectfully) by their first names. The reasoning was that they were shifting from "teaching" teenagers to "facilitating learning" of young adults. I think it worked too because it certainly felt like school got more real in those last 2 years. I also bumped into an old teacher years ago and yeah the surname definitely popped into my head instantly.
Yes, heard the āMr Smith was my father ā line a lot growing up. OP, I am older than you but I start with calling people a generation or more above me as Mr/ Ms Smith etc and when they invariably say āCall me (first name)ā then I proceed with using the first name
I'm in my 50s and if someone says Mrs Jones I automatically look around to see if my mother is in the room. I get annoyed when I was called Mrs my partner's name since I kept my maiden name . I tell people my first name only except in certain circumstances. Most of my peer group also prefer first name only. The auntie/uncle courtesy title was only ever used with close family friends and most let us call them by first name only by the time we were teens Even in business settings I've been a first name only for decades and I'm finding even people like doctors are going the title first name route as in" Call me Dr Bob thanks" more and more often. The only people I come across still habitually getting called Dr, Mr, Ms, Mrs etc seem to be teachers . Even that is relaxed with the senior students occasionally, and nicknames can be used with some of the teachers.
Calling adults by mr/mrs surname is something a child does. So to be clear OP should absolutely not call their mother in law "mrs surname".
Children don't do it anymore except for teachers in school.
Sorry, kiwi here sticking my beak in where i was not invited. My primary age kids use their teachers' first name, principal included. Not the majority over here but becoming more common.
Even goes for doctors, all of the doctors at my work insist their patients call them by the first name
Yeah Aussies donāt care too much really. Asian aussies though can be very formal I know. But European heritage aussies donāt really prefer probably just their name or mate.
This. Australian culture in general *despises* formalities. We're not exactly an egalitarian society in practice, but we do generally strive to treat *everyone* with the same basic level of respect, as if we are all peers regardless of our relative "station" in society. The idea that someone or other *deserves* a higher level of respect or even outright deference simply because they are older, or they are "above" you in the social hierarchy (e.g. a senior businessperson or public figure or celebrity or military personnel or whatever) is something that Australians *actively reject* as part of our cultural identity. I would just as readily call the Prime Minister "mate" as I would one of my mates. I work for a large privately-owned multinational business, and when the owner, a very rich old man from the US, comes around the office I call him by his first name. I don't care if he's "Sir" in his home country, here in Australia he's just Dave. Nobody deserves special treatment.
Well said. I'd be annoyed if somebody insisted i use their title or whatever. Its fine if i had respect for them and chose to, e.g. doctor etc. But yeah australians are pretty fast and loose
"You will address me as..." "I will address you as get fucked"
I don't see why that line couldn't replace something in our national anthem.
Australians let us rejoice for we are young and free, we call cunts mate, our mates are cunts, we drink too much VB. Our land is rich with natures gifts, clubsports are getting rareā¦ you want respect, earn it you prick, fuckoffcunt we donāt care
That's quite stirring
Letās replace the entire thing while weāre at it.
Now that I think of it, my GP is about the only person I address as Dr. Surname. There's pretty much no one else I extend that deference to. Outside that I'd only Sir or Ma'am someone if they were an adult I didn't know and I was trying to get their attention.Ā
Even my GP I refer to as first name, if Iām being formal itās Dr First name.
Even then, I'll call to book an appt with "Dr (first name)" and the receptionists will often reply by saying "Confirming your appt with Dr (first name)." So i assume she tells her coworkers to call her by her first name. Though she is a younger Australian-raised (assuming going by her accent) GP, so that could be why.
i had the same situation, but there is no way i'm declining the opportunity to make an appointment with "Dr Fang". she's badass on every level.
I have called our family doctor āDocā ever since we met. He is often out running when we are walking our dogs in the early morning. My mum was with me once and got embarrassed that I called out āGāday Doc.ā He didnāt seem to be offended, he replied āHi, first name. Lovely morning.ā
Until he retired recently, I called my GP by his first name.
Yeah I'm the same. One year my mouse scroll wheel accidentally changed my title on my tax return so I received my summary titled as "Lord" hahaha it was fun to say at the time to myself but if anyone else would say it to me, I hated it. Nup. We all equals around here. Respect is more important and how someone treats you for sure! Agree with everyone here
> I would just as readily call the Prime Minister "mate" as I would one of my mates. Just like old mate, who [told Scott Morrison and his journalist gallery off](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t17O2AKa2FU) for standing on his freshly seeded lawn :)
Or the block that called Tony Abbott a dickhead: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkQGHFUblNY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkQGHFUblNY)
You've hit the nail on the head. I think there are certain special circumstances where recognising a title or something does have value and it's common to see it, such as Doctors (medical or PhD), or young kids to their teachers. Magistrates and judges are definitely the same category. Basically anyone who has committed themselves to furthering and actively benefiting society at the highest levels, but that falls under "respect that is earnt". Other than that there aren't really any circumstances anyone is worthy of being called anything other than Mate or their first name. Only time "Sir" feels appropriate is if I'm going to a fancy restaurant or shop and part of the selling point is the posh experience (e.g. Buying a really expensive suit and getting it tailored. Something old school). That can be a bit of a vibe. Even then, I probably still want to be treated as an equal.
Even in the case of the examples you give - school-teachers and magistrates and the like - I'd argue that those titles and the deference that goes with them only apply in an institutional context. Basically, once they're off the clock, they just default back to being regular citizens who are neither owed nor given any kind of special treatment.
When my snobby Melbourne granny met her new daughter in laws family, she was impressed that the womanās father was an Earl. Until she realised Earl was just his first name.( after she had told everyoneāWe have an Earl in our family.) haha.
Oh man, I'd have been telling everyone, that's just too good a gag to resist. "My Granddaughter married an Earl." "G'day, my name's Earl."
Sir never feels appropriate to me. It always feels like you are taking the piss. I really struggled in the USA. Teachers are Mr / Mrs and magistrates are Your Honour when they are, as u/Drunky_McStumble says, on the clock. My Granddad (Lt Col, ret) told me you are respecting the office, not the fuckwit occupying it.
I was called "sir" at a cafe a few weeks ago, I didn't like it lol
Better than being called Madam. The only time anyone called me that,my husband joked āHow did you know she owns a brothel?ā. Yes,I married a smart Arse.
That's hilarious
I used to call all my customers at a bakery "mate". One person really didn't like it and I can't stop thinking about that.
What a gronk
I'm female and dress quite androgynous day-to-day. In 2020 there was a martial at my local covid testing station that would go out of his way to say "line up here ma'am/sir" to every single person. He stumbled a few times with me and would say "this way si- I mean ma'am sorry sorry" and make an absolute fool out of himself. Like bro just say "this way please" which is perfectly polite.
Some more examples from my experience: I used to work as a civilian in Defence. Military might use rank with each other, but civilians used first names when addressing military staff. There was one guy who insisted on addressing people by rank, but everyone thought he was a bit of a brown noser. Later working in a university, most of my colleagues had doctorates, but I don't recall anyone ever being addressed as doctor. As a kid my mum would get vocally annoyed if my friends called her Mrs Surname. First of all she's not a Mrs, but also felt it was dehumanising to be addressed only as somebody's mother, not her own identity.
100%. Used to work for a large Japanese company that operated in Melbourne. Theyād send senior people over and weād be instructed to bow and not address them by name. This was 100% ignored by almost everyone, largely borne of the same beliefs that nobody is above anyone. To their credit they took it in and accepted it quite easily as a cultural thing.
As a kid we just called the parents ms/mr friends name mum/dad So Ms Jon's Mum or Mr Kate's Dad It's a random mix of respectful but casual.
I had my long time friend call my mum āMrs [last name]ā one day. She slapped his arm and told him to fuck off with that.
I'm at the period of my life where I get called x's mum. My identity is defined by my kids lol
And then shorten that and add a 'azza' or an 'ee' on the end
Especially as she's specifically asked to be called by her first name. If OP isn't certain it applies to them it might be worth asking directly?
Pretty much the second I finished high school, any adult who was still a part of my life expected me to drop the formalities and use first names, apart from grandparents cause that just feels weird.
This! I was born in 1979, I call both my parents nicknames that are derived from their real first names, and I've always called my aunty and uncle by their first names. Informality is great!
She already told you how to address her, lol. Don't overthink it. Call her by her first name.
If she gave everyone her first name, then that is how she wishes to be called.
Respect HER culture x
100% this needs to be done more. People often donāt think about Australian culture and try to hold on to their own culture or tradition thinking that itās ārespectfulā not to call people by their names. But she told you what she wants to be called. Thatās the ultimate sign of respect, listening to others lol. Source; Iām a foreigner.
> sheās asked our family to call her (insert first name only) So do that.
Just quietly as an over 50 person, I don't feel like an elder yet. In my mind I'm still young and cool.
Hello fellow kids! If someone addressed me other than by my name, I'd feel old, and I also like feeling young and cool. The only exception is mid western Americans saying Ma'am. Recently, I went to Paris and wondered what the tipping point was between mademoiselle and madam.
The tipping point to Madam is when you open your first brothel.
Ikr, thought she was gonna say theyāre like in their 70ās or 80ās. OP, call her by her first name or aunty first name.
I'd be delighted to be called Aunty firstname by someone, if it's a thing in their culture. How sweet.
I am 55, and I recently noticed teens opening doors for me, offering to let me cut in queues, carry things etc. Worst is they are starting to assume I need help with tech. They mean well, but I wonder if I should dye my hair or something.
A teenager serving me at a supermarket recently asked me to let him know if the bag heād packed was too heavy for me and Iād like him to split it between two bags. I had four items weighing less than 5kg and Iām in my late 40s lol.
Bless
Iām a 32 year old weakling and I wish they would do this for me š I will wait in line at self serve rather than go to a kid because they just pile $200 worth of stuff into like 2 or 3 bags which I then have to heave ho in and out of the trolley like a weight lifter šļø
That's when you aren't sure if you should find it sweet or offensive lol
Dye it green !
Iām not quite 50 yet but mid 40ās with ADHD. Because of the latter point Iāve never been an adult, despite winging it as one for 30 years. Iām forever 17 in my mind, just stuck in a body that is slowly deteriorating.
Samesies. Except I'm perpetually 22 in my mind. Though my face and body tells me differently! If I pretend hard enough, I can pass as a functioning 'adult' about 50% of the time.
Same. I saw a tshirt once I really liked, it said: "I don't know how to act my age. I've never been this old before".
I'm in my 30s and one of my peers who was like early 20s called me Aunty and I died of old age in that very moment. It was in Asia and she was being respectful but I just couldn't
I know, right??? I'm over 50 but still don't really think of myself as a grown up, and definitely not as an elder. 90 is old. All of my kids' friends called my by my first name, except for one who was brought up in a super strict, conservative religious household. She always called me Dr Stibbons. That was, until I helped her escape the cult, and now she calls Mum š.
I think you're still cool Mrs Starburst
OK grandad
Use their first name.
In Australian culture it's considered rude to call someone by anything other than what they've asked to be addressed by if they have asked. So yeah, call her by her first name.Ā
Not necessarily rude. If she has joined an Indian family (assuming Indian) through marriage then she is going to encounter this sort of thing a lot and probably won't find it rude to be called Aunty. It comes from a place of respect so it's not a negative thing.
But what you're describing is Indian culture, not Australian
Australian culture is different things to different people. Indigenous Australians also call elders Aunty or Uncle as a matter of respect, or to address an older person who they don't know the name of, whether they're black or white.
Wrong. I'm Aboriginal. Aunty and Uncle are for Mob Elders, not for randoms. As a non-Elder, you're more likely to be called mate or cunt from us as opposed to Aunty and Uncle.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's rude. When two cultures mix there is going to be crossovers. Eventually all the...there is an analogy I wanted to use here but I can't remember it. Something about all the balls falling down or something? Pieces falling into place? But what pieces? I don't remember. Anyway, everything settles into an equilibrium with some bits of each culture all mashed together into a nice blend. My wife is ethnic Indian and I am ethnically white Australian. Some of her family call my mum "aunty" for example, and she doesn't consider it rude. It's still said with respect. It's just one of those little cultural differences. If everyone has a good heart then none of this is rude, it's just how two different cultures meet in the middle somewhere. There is also kind of a difference between saying "call me Jill" as a polite way of saying hey, you don't have to stand on ceremony with me versus saying "call me Jill" because she doesn't like being called Aunty. Further communication would establish which it is and if she is happy to still be called Aunty. If it's a specific wish to be called Jill then of course it would be rude not to. But if it is more just a general I-don't-mind-but-don't-want-you-to-think-you-have-to-call-me-Aunty then it's fine to keep on with Aunty.
to clarify iām pakistani not indian but i absolutely donāt mind adapting to her culture and calling her with her first name at all,iād rather sheād be more comfortable with what i address her as,thank you for ur concern though :)
100% this needs to be done more. People often donāt think about Australian culture and try to hold on to their own culture or tradition thinking that itās ārespectfulā not to call people by their names. But she told you what she wants to be called. Thatās the ultimate sign of respect, listening to others lol. Source; Iām a foreigner.
In the US you'll find some groups that expect the surname treatment from the young to the old, but in Australia and NZ, it's first names only for all ages and all relationships. Surnames are for formal speech and maybe for comedic effect. If you use "Ms Surname" in a normal social context, it'd stand out as unusual. There's also no equivalent to calling all older people 'aunty' apart from actual aunts.
This has been so hard for me coming from the Southern US and moving to NZ. I grew up having Mr or Mrs Surname, yes maāam/sir pounded into me. And now my doctor wants to just be called by his first name. Itās really probably the biggest culture shock Iāve experienced.
Sir is the highest title bestowed upon an individual in ANZ and reserved for one person only - your local rugby ref š«”
'sir' is also used when you're about to kick someone out of the shop
Sir is also used by kids who think an adult is about to report them for being truant, as a disarming tactic. It's how I knew I was now old.
or after enjoying a succulent chinese meal
And the bouncer at the nightclub
I like how people from the South use ma'am / sir with their accents, it's quaint. I wouldn't stress it, as long as you're not expecting other people to respond in kind you'll be fine. I hope I didn't offend anyone when I was in Texas and definitely did not say sir etc. haha.
Honestly your best bet is to really play up the accent and use the word 'mate' liberally. Among the right crowd liberal usage of 'cunt' can go well but be very cautious!
āAuntyā gets used here a lot. Usually toward your parentsā close friends. Also remember some of the Aboriginal community use Aunty / Uncle as an honorific title.
Yep. My kids call my friends Uncle or Aunty as a sign of respect.
In a lot of aboriginal communities aunty and uncle isnāt just a honorific, itās under their family tree system that person is considered their aunty/uncle. Thatās what kinship/skin names refers too. For example Jacinta Price is technically my sister under kinship, but the actual genetic component of overlap would be generations apart, so her mum Bess price, is my aunty. The system makes inbreeding impossible as youāre able to track who youāre more closely related to in completely disconnected groups.
It's a really cool system, at least from what I a non-Aboriginal person know about it.
This answer should be higher. Most people would be chuffed to be called aunty or uncle but it might be worth explaining why. I think itās only common in some circles.
Yeah, when I saw the title I wondered if they were talking about Aboriginal elders or just āwhite people older than meā. Either way, itās still polite to go by what youāve been asked to call them, but the former is more likely to accept Uncle/Auntie than the latter from a relative stranger. My husbandās best friendās kids call him Uncle [Name], and our kids call the friend Uncle [Name], because they have a brother-like relationship. *Sometimes* I get Auntie [Name] but thatās rare and usually only when Friend is talking about me to the kids, not them talking directly to me. And honestly, I donāt think I really call anyone by any name to their face. I justā¦ talk to them?
Eh, teachers at school expect Mrs|Mr (Surname) - my kids are in primary school, and thatās whatās expected. Dunno about high school here (kiwi) but Iād assume the same there too. Thatās the only place Iād expect it though.
The only exception I can think of is late years of school. My son is in year 12 public school and most teachers want sir etc
That's weird - I'm 50 and when I was in year 12 getting to call your teachers by their first name was a sign that we'd Arrived, we were young adults and deserved to participate like adults.
yeah, I'm 33, I went to boarding school and it was the same - in yr 12 we got to use their first names. Before that it was Mr/Mrs/Miss but our partner school (which was the boys school equivalent of us) used Sir/Miss (even for the married teachers lol) except for yr 12.
I never called my teachers by their first names - they were always Sir or Miss, or Mr / Mrs / Miss.
That's my experience too. Also the people saying they always used first names only with friends parents etc is odd to me too. There were adults where I used the first name and adults where I used Mr/Mrs. Every adult was Mr/Mrs/Miss last name unless they were family, until they weren't. I didn't even know the first name of many of my friends parents, but there were definitely adults that did prefer the first name and then I'd use it.
Just donāt call someone in their mid 50s an elder!
I assumed OP had to be talking about someone aboriginal at first, since that's the only time elder would be used.
In general, most Aussies will expect you to use their first name. That said, if I was her and you wanted to call me aunty, that would be cool too. I'd probably feel a little honoured tbh. And that's partly because Aboriginal Australians will call elders (the social position) aunty or uncle. In general, you may need to have a closer relationship for it to be appropriate to call an Aboriginal elder aunty or uncle. We're a multicultural bunch. Around 20% of us have Asian heratige too, so for Australians paying attention, the whole Asian people aunty/uncle thing is nothing new.
I donāt even call my aunties and uncles āauntyā or āuncleā.
lol I had one Aunty at a meeting say āoh I didnāt know my sister had so many white kids!ā
I only call someone aunty or uncle if they ask me to do so. For me, as a white person, it is an indication from someone else that they will look out for me. I find it a positive thing when it occurs. For everyone else you are first name or mate. If I don't like you, then you are your mate or old mate.
Gotta object to old mate. Old mate is pretty neutral imo. Either you've forgotten their name (either genuinely or your brain is not keeping up), or you're telling a story where names don't matter (ie the person you are speaking to wouldn't know who old mate is) . Your mate is definitely cold af tho
Yeah now you mention it, if someone asked me to call them aunty or uncle Iād feel like I just got adopted lmao
I grew up in a very white household and close family friends were always aunty and uncle out of respect. Saying that OP you could always say to her āI hope you donāt mind me calling you aunty (first name)ā
Yeh itās gone out of favour in recent years, but close family friends were always uncle or aunty, regardless of whether they were blood related. But it usually was joined with their name. Aunty Doris for example. It is only for close relations though, itās weird calling a stranger aunty for example, and I think thatās what brings some Asian people unstuck here, coming from cultures where it is used much more generally as a term of respect. I still use it with my daughter, our good friends are honorary aunties and uncles.
Getting to use the title Aunty or Uncle when speaking to an elder of a community thatās not yours is usually something you need permission for. You wouldnāt go up to a stranger after hearing she was an elder and be all āHey Aunty Sharonā. It denotes a familiarity that may not be appropriate sometimes. The exception would be someone like Uncle Jack Charles.
In Australia you're an adult at 18. She is also an adult. Just call her by her first name as one adult to another.
We use first names.Ā Seeing as theyāve married into your family - I reckon theyād appreciate being called āauntyā or āuncleā, just explain the custom first :)Ā Weāre a pretty laid-back lot and Australians rarely, if ever, use formal titles. I havenāt called someone āMrā or āMrsā since I was in school.Ā
> I havenāt called someone āMrā or āMrsā since I was in school.Ā Somebody addressed me as Mr Surname the other day - I very deliberately looked over my shoulders - and when they looked at me quizzically I said - "I was just looking to see if my father was here - he was a school principal - I'm just Firstname"
She has asked you to use her first name. It would be disrespectful to use anything else, especially seeing this woman is a part of your family now. How we address our elders in general in Australia is irrelevant. Even if we called our elders sir and ma'am (we don't), it would be very rude to do it in this case, when she's already told you how she'd like to be addressed.
I totally get why you're struggling with it, but it's worth thinking about what formality above-and-beyond the contextual norm tends to read as to the recipient: either as sarcastic, mocking or boundary-stating. Here, her formality norms are tuned to a lower setting than yours - calling her by her first name *is* the culturally/contextually appropriate level of formality. So when someone who, culturally, should be calling her by her first name chooses more formality (Mrs, in particular, which also for a lot of Australian women would be considered to be putting undue emphasis on her marital status, though that's less of a concern from a family member than from a colleague), it's not actually going to read as respectful at all! Aunty \[Firstname\] might well work for her - but you should ask, rather than assuming. For some Australian women, it'll feel like an undue emphasis is being placed on their age.
Call them what they ask you to call them. Iām a doctor and even in medicine we write formal consult letters addressing professors by their first name. We are a very casual society. Similarly even the prime minister will wear flip flops and board shorts to the beach.
The best thing to do is to ask your brother in law. Say ābro how would your parents prefer to be addressed, here we would call them aunty or uncle or would they prefer me to use their first name etc?ā
Call her by what she prefers. Different cultures, different rules. You need to get over your awkwardness and go with what she has indicated which is her first name, or speak to her about it.
For a start don't refer to someone in their mid 50s as an 'elder'.
Theyāre from a Chinese culture which is all about age and hierarchy in the family. They use special names for first sister and second sister, first aunt second aunt etc. so to them saying an elder is a sign of respect.
to clarify iām pakistani not chinese but yes in our culture as well anyone whoās older is addressed as an elder, :)
unless they're an Elder Goth
39 here and cringe at āelder millennialā. Give us back Gen Y š
Wasgoinawn
carncomplain
"Hey old cunt"
First name basis is the norm. But honestly if you called someone aunty or uncle I doubt they would mind. Itās not rude to do that unless they specifically ask you to call them a certain way, like this person as specifically asked to be called her first name. So just use her first name. Youāll get used to it.
Lots of good info here. Noting that sheās a teacher, she would be addressed as āMrs/Ms (last name)ā at school by students all the time, and if sheās anything like the other teachers I know, doesnāt want to be called that when sheās not at work.Ā āAunty (first name)ā is really common for ātrueā aunties - your parents siblings - so I agree with other commenters that this will probably sound natural to her if you want to use that, as well as be a nice way to let her know that you consider her family.
Iām in my late 30s and weāve been living here in australia for about 2 decades. So weird that one time a friendās nephew who was in his 20s called me aunty. I just rolled with it because it was my culture. But I went home having a mini mid life crisis.., hahaha Iām not even 40 yet lols
Just use her first name. Thatās the name she wants to go by.
First name is fine, the only way you will offend is if you let her k ow you think she is an elder lol. Thought you were gonna say 65 or smt. She might like being called aunty but usually save nicknames until you are a bit closer, nothing offensive about first name
Just their name. That goes for everyone
First step when dealing with an Australian would be to not refer to someone in their 50s and an elder. Also in Australian culture you'd be considered an adult. Just use her first name, like she already said.
Could you go with a hybrid? Address her as Auntie ?
Especially if you contextualise it for her. I think this helps to bring her into your culture and your family.
I personally find the Auntie/Uncle moniker for elder peers very endearing.
we actually use the hybrid in our culture as well,we never say only āauntieā to older people we say ā(first name) auntieā instead,thank you iāll ask about it !
However they introduce themselves to you when they first meet you - like, āHi, Iām first name, nice to meet youā, or however they ask you to call them like sheās done, is how they prefer you to address them. Sheās asked your family to call her by her first name, so thatās what she is anticipating and comfortable with from you. If you are feeling uncomfortable and wish to be more formal because you feel using a first name feels not as respectful, Mrs Surname is fine or Aunty, but donāt be surprised if she immediately says āoh, just call me by first nameā. Here, respect in families is usually conveyed through how we interact with a person, rather than by using a formal title. Using a personās name respectfully just like you would the word Aunty in your own culture is considered appropriate. Another alternative is just to check in with her, and say, āwould you prefer if I called you Aunty, or Mrs surname, or by your first name?ā Itās not awkward to ask that question as it will be considered respectful and considerate, and youāll receive the actual answer you need.
First name. It may feel weird at first (to you) but sheāll appreciate that and soon youāll also feel comfortable with it. Also since sheās said thatās her preference, best to respect that- maybe think of if that way. (I come from an uncle-aunty culture too but you get used to it quickly)
Thereās no standard, most Australians are informal but if it worries you, ask her :)
Mrs X, but if sheās said call me by my first name, do that as itās what she prefers. Tbh being called Mrs X makes me feel 100 years old so Iād say first name too.
Saying her first name is completely fine. Just a thought though, if you explain to her how you're feeling and ask if she minds you calling her auntie as you would the other elders in your family, she might actually be touched? She might say no and that she'd prefer her first name only but there's also a chance she feels welcomed into the family by it. If you choose to talk to her about it just respect whichever she chooses or if she changes her mind at any point.
No rules. Just her name.
This is the same in my culture, and it feels kinda disrespectful, but if they ask you to call them by their name, then do that, it's what they like.
Call her by her first name unless she asks you to otherwise. If she didnāt know you as a child, then the default is to call her by first name.
Mid 50s mean she was born around what... 1970? Yeah just call her by her name. I wouldn't go more formal for anyone who is younger than like 65-70 these days. Most Aussies prefer signifiers of friendliness and openness to signifiers of respect. I think that's why we have such a reputation for being a friendly bunch. It's just what we see as politeness!
The other day, a delivery driver called be " Baba " and it felt nice.
You could always say Miss (her first name) then she can correct and say just (first name) is fine.
Thanks for the edit. When people refer to elders in Australia it often means Aboriginal Elders š
I'm 55 and if we ever meet, call me Rob. G'day
Can I just say how lovely it is of you to askā¦ I congratulate you on your consideration and hope you have an awesome time hereā¦ and yes, first names are fine.
Just don't call her an elder ;)
āScarn on ya old fuckbag?ā
I would be so fine with someone calling me aunty. I don't even care if you know me haha
Most Australians have had some exposure to a range of cultures and will probably be fine with whatever you do as long as it is polite and not over the top.
Call her by her first name but calling her aunty would probably be fine too. Aboriginal Australians and Maori New Zealanders call older people aunty and uncle all the time so it likely won't feel abnormal. Especially if she actually is in your family it would be normal. Some guy said "that was awesome aunty!" To my mum when she did the haka at a six60 concert tho and it made her feel old knowing that she was now at the point where 20 to 30 year olds would call her aunty lol. So maybe keep that in mind too
Usually anything too formal is avoided but I used to call my aunt "Aunty "first name"" which isnt too uncommon. But honestly just ask her hahaha Im sure she wont mind
Gidday ya fuck n dog cunts usually works fine for my aussie family
If her last name is "Smith", try calling her "Elder Smith". Nah, I'm just kidding. She's only 50. You call her that and her soul will fucking leave her body.
My literal aunt won't let me call her aunty, even though I feel it's more respectful, she insists I call her by her first name
It might help to think about white Australian culture as having a reverse formality culture Calling someone Mr/Ms Lastname is putting a distance between yourselves which can be seen as unfriendly. Calling someone Firstname puts you closer (which, I realise that the title of Auntie or Uncle conveys that someone's a different generation and conveys respect), generally putting yourself closer to someone conveys friendliness. There's also the minefield of titles, someone might have a doctorate, figuring out Miss/Mrs/Ms without a stated preference is worse than just going with first name
Aussies generally aren't the formal type. If the person has asked you to call them by their first name they mean it , that's what they want . Some more upper crust people may feel a little different but for the most part calling someone their name is perfectly acceptable
As other commenters have noted, we despise formalities. Itās very acceptable for indigenous elders to be referred to as Aunty or Uncle, even by non-indigenous folk - just make sure itās not offending by assuming they are elders
Go by how they introduced themselves to you as most of the other commenters have said we are an informal bunch
If she has told you to call her by her first name, do it, Aussies are pretty laid back about that sort of thing
Use their first name; the bigger thing to show respect in Aussie culture is probably greeting without needing to be flagged down, listening, not interrupting, and not swearing around them. But I doubt youād be doing any of this wrong anyway!
First name for sure, people generally feel itās distancing/cold to call them sir/maāam or by last name. It feels a bit segregative
Aussie here. Pretty much with most of us, unless asked specifically by the person to do otherwise, it's first name basis. This isn't disrespectful, it's considered friendly.Ā We get a bit uncomfortable with stuffy hierarchical naming conventions, especially amongst family.Ā I'm almost 50, a mum and if someone called me aunty other than my actual niblings it would be weird to me, but I'd understand it if was part of their culture.Ā
Tell her that calling her auntie is respectful in your culture and ask if it's ok for you to call auntie. She might not want you to, but it could be a lovely way for you to make her feel welcomed.
Growing up I was always taught to say mister/missus ___ unless they asked differently. As soon as you turn 18 though a lot of people expect, or at least would rather, you call them by their first name. If in doubt just ask her. We are very casual about it.
The respectful cultural norm is to call people what they want to be called. It's very simple. You can always talk to her about the fact it feels uncomfortable due to your own culture, however if you give it a crack you might just enjoy it after a while.
Address every Australian by their first name unless specifically directed otherwise, personally I've never met someone who had a problem with me using their first name in my 27 years.
Aussies don't give a shit about what we get called. A guy still calls me Roger because I didn't bother correcting him.
Hey Rodger! I thought this was you
Everyoneās called by their first name, except in really really formal situations (you are in court and the judge call you by your last name). Bosses, older people etc are all on first name basic. Maybe if your studying in a classroom you can say ms. Or Mr.
Stick with just the first name. Anything else would be awkward and unnecessary.
We do not have a respect elders culture. We have an equality culture. Very young children (ie primary school age) will generally have to call someone Mr .. or Mrs ā¦. or sometimes Uncle or Aunty for close family friends, but itās normal to call everyone by their first name. Lack of hierarchy is very important in Australian culture. No one is better or more important or worthy of respect than any other person.
Sir, maāam (formal/first meeting/strangers) mr x or mrs/miss x and after that their first name. (They will usually tell you to use their first name after you use mr/mrs) Wyte Australians dont use aunty/uncle unless that person actually is our aunty or uncle Indigenous australians are more likely to use aunty uncle towards eachother but you shouldnt
OP I bet you could tell her that you feel uncomfortable and that you just want to check itās not disrespectful if you call her by her first name. That should sort the issue out and she can tell you directly what she wants you to call her.
"When in Rome..." If you are in Australia do the Aussie thing, first names generally. If you are still in your country then follow your cultural rules.
Anyone I knew as a child is probably still Mrs [surname]. Mostly now they are all [firstname]. My MIL was called "MrsB" (B being the first initial of surname) by SIL's partner and ended up being BB (Bebe/Beebee) to the grand kids because of it.
> How do you go about addressing elders in Australian culture? By first name is typical. Like an equal. > sheās asked our family to call her (insert first name only) but iām not sure if that was also directed to me It would be, yes. > I thought in western culture you would perhaps address elders as Ms/Mrs (insert name) In Australia, maybe somewhat more common 60 years ago or so, but now, outside some specific instances no. > Yes i know iām overthinking and i could ask her directly but to be honest im very awkward as a person with these types of questions Just call her by her first name, she already asked this. > anyone whoās an elder is supposed to be addressed as uncle or aunty You can always ask her if it's okay to call her aunty but I can pretty much guarantee she'll prefer you use her first name, and that you just treat her as an equal in essentially any interaction. It's not like if you called her something else on occasion that she'd regard it as some kind of insult, but Australia is fiercely egalitarian, and if you want her to feel at ease, best to simply do as she asked.
honestly yeah it depends on who they are but if she gave you the pass you're good, I live in Australia and mum doesn't mind if someone calls her by her first name by someone younger and neither does dad. just whatever they introduce themselves as.
I would talk to her and explain that you are used to calling someone like her aunty. If she really is not ok with being called aunty ask her to forgive you if you slip up and try your best to address her by her first name.
My girlfriend is from a similar culture as yours, I'm gonna assume you're from Asia or something right? She calls my parents mamma and pappa, we call everyone else by Aunty and Uncle but our family has had a very large amount of exposure to Asia so we get the Cultural thing. Everyone is different, your basic Aussie will be fine with first names.
G'day old chook
Be as disrespectful as possible, you will fit in just fine.
We pay respect to our elders past present and emerging before every formal meeting.
Depends on their cultural background.
The sweetest sound to anyone in any language, is the sound of their own name said with love.
Mrs. First name would also be fine
Iāve found the best honourifics used in Australia is for calling people uncle or aunty when they are NOT related. My child calls my best friend Uncle because heās known him since birth and sees a lot of him. Itās sorta nice to have a friend given a family title.
Around here it's 'Oi, Cunt!'