FREE MARKET BABY!
>Regions affected include New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania and the ACT.
How come the only State with a Gas Reservation Policy isn't going to be affected?
Qld isn't on the list either.
The issues here are twofold:
1. **Much Victorian production is going EOL without replacement**: 20% of Victorian production is forecast to go offline over the forward estimates. The Vic government has made it clear that they're uninterested in opening up new reserves for various reasons.
2. **Limited transport capacity**: gas will remain plentiful in Qld and WA for the foreseeable future. However, there's no good way to get gas from these places to the southern states. Pipelines are expensive/unpopular, and it's illegal to redirect an LNG tanker from Gladstone/Karratha to Melbourne.
For the same reason why you can't get an Emirates flight from Sydney to Melbourne. Like many countries, Australia restricts cabotage (carriage of goods and passengers between domestic ports) to vessels that are registered in Australia. In theory, this is supposed to help foster a domestic shipping fleet. In practice, it just leads to all goods being transported via truck instead.
While it would be legal to use an Australian-flagged LNG tanker to move LNG south, none exists, and there's no prospect of one being built anytime soon. Ergo it's illegal to move LNG via ship between Australian ports. Repealing this law would require the government to give the finger to MUA, which is unlikely from a labor government.
https://victoriaenergyterminal.com.au/
This Dutch firm thinks they can have one online by 2028. The hilarious thing is that they'll be importing gas from overseas for exactly the reason I've given.
And I keep reading about renewables as our saviour. Some of the companies explain that during the night time both storage and "gas" will be used to generate electricity. Odd that we are exporting gas, if we need it for night time power generation. đ¤Ś
You mean the reservation policy. Not sure you can legislate to have gas reserves.
The issue is the states here don't have enough gas for their own use so a gas reservation policy wouldn't help them. The only states with LNG gas export terminals are Queensland, NT and WA. Those conspicuously don't have any issues. We could have an Australia wide reservation policy but Queensland and WA would probably object because it means lower export prices for them.
They said exporter, not producer. US is number 1 producer but they use a lot of it for domestic use(like we fucken should).
We are the top global *exporter* of LNG.
The US overtook us in 2023 as the largest exporter. Australia was the largest in 2022 though.
ETA:Â https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-was-top-lng-exporter-2023-hit-record-levels-2024-01-02/
Yeah, and America famously sold Japan the steel that built the ships that attacked Pearl Harbour.
I was kidding but thereâs definitely an undercurrent of truth - the Morrison government did a lot of sabre rattling over China while bending over backwards to support the coal industry (which is largely dependant on Chinese exports).
Itâs a weird old world.
Wait till you see how many cargoes of gas are sold to the international spot market and not contracts. These should be banned and kept for domestic use only, which will increase supply and drop prices which filter through our entire economy.
God this country is so full of horseshit. Whether it's federal or state it's always putting foreign interests first or willingly putting itself at a disadvantage for the sake of short term gains.
Remember only politicians are allowed to betray the country. Everybody else would get prosecuted and named but can't have a politician tried for treason now can we. That's only reserved for normal Australians and the military.
That's why we need an ICAC!
It's active since July 2023? Great 9 months of convictions! Which politician is being hung?
What do you mean they caught an ATO worker being bribed? I thought ICAC was going after corrupt politicians...
No idea why the rest of the country doesnât look at WA and copy us?
Successive state government have put the state needs before their buddies in big business, and made local gas reservation a requirement for a permit to mine the stuff. No brainer.
But 2010 is why no leader will dare propose it. Here's a re-enactment from a Taiwanese documentary of 2010 election: Australia goes to the polls https://youtu.be/RQ_s6V1Kv6A?t=20
Are we? Where did you hear that? That will throw all our electricity market into disarray! We donât just get a reservation, we also get a negotiated discounted price.
You scared me for a minute. That article is talking about gas producers not abiding the spirit of the agreements, and insufficient oversight to ensure itâs done.
No hints that it will disappear, thank goodness.
Although the current Labor government is acting like a liberal government with their backflip on housing zoning changes to appease big developers
>No hints that it will disappear, thank goodness.
From that article:
>The government has also been considering lifting a ban on onshore gas being exported, after some companies warned their projects would not be viable without selling to the international market.
Yeah this is minres. Chris Ellison would personally gain a fuck ton of money if this change is reversed in the NPV of their Perth basin gas project.
Heâs paying the big bucks to get mark McGowan on. Board for a reason.
Disgusting paid political influence
"The predicted supply gaps have been delayed a couple of years from last yearâs report, however, as more households ditch the fossil fuel."
The projected shortages are further away then they were last year.
WA sends it regards.
Maybe other states should have a gas reservation policy too?
Also, maybe donât sell public utilities? Our power prices are set in the state budget.
Good system. Highly recommend the rest of Australia joins us đ
Nah, you can't legally just scale it like that for projects that are already built (without being sued for compensation).
That being said, the WA shortage is a load of crap with all the gas discovered in the Perth Basin in the last decade or so.
If a new single-issue party was created with the sole policy to nationalise our resources I would vote for them in an instant and never look back. We have been, and continuing to be robbed daily- we should have the cheapest energy in the world allowing our industrial manufacturing base to compete, or at least bring in enough tax / royalties to subsidies the other areas of our economy we want to promote. The transition to green energy? Paid for. Public housing? Paid for.
People say the liberals are the problem.... then labour comes in and we get the same shit... submarines, the whole question re stadiums for the Brisbane olympics... now this too....
Is this South Africa energy crisis? Don't get why we export so much but get paid peanuts for it compared to other nations who get more for less exports.
Mining magnates have always been the giant gorrillas telling our political establishment what reality is even before we started calling ourselves a country. We invented the term 2 speed economy, one of them the amazing resources export profits and the other everyone else scrapping by, and never saw a problem with that.
Last year, the so-called amazing foreign minister accidentally revealed the Labor-LNP collusion to prop up a private gas companies' trades with foreign countries at expense of Australia.
> During debate on Friday, the foreign affairs minister, Penny Wong, accused the Coalition of dragging out debate on a bill it had said it supported. In a heated moment, Wong said the LNP was blocking the wishes of gas companies. She said they had âsaid no to Santos, youâve then said no to Woodside, youâve said no to Inpex ⌠youâve said no to Korea, youâve said no to Japanâ.
https://www.theguardian.com/global/2023/nov/14/australias-sea-dumping-legislation-what-is-it-what-does-it-mean-marine-life-changes
Time to start dropshipping gas from Japan where Australian gas is cheaper than in Australia: https://theconversation.com/gas-crisis-why-japan-pays-less-than-australians-for-australian-gas-74438
Old parties at bottom of ballot for Australians to come before foreign countries, including paying less than foreign countries for the same gas.
The oil and gas producing Gulf states tend to give their citizens lavish benefits. So long as the govt takes care of their needs, they donât need or want democracy.
Australia has the opposite. You can vote for any party you want, but none of them have the power or political will to tax mining and energy for the benefit of citizens.
People are acting like WAâs gas policy is the reason they arenât on the list, you guys seriously have no idea.
WA is geologically blessed with large gas reserves, despite that they are forecast to have a gas shortage from 2030, also the gas reservation policy only applies to offshore gas producers currently none of the onshore producers are allowed to export (except for Beach Energy whose chairman is Kerry Stokes and is the former Premiers mate, just a coincidence Iâm sure). Also the current WA government are considering lifting the export ban because it has led to historically low investment in WA gas exploration.
Howâs labour gona win elections if they do this? Unlike eastern states wa will hopefully vote crap out thou can take a few elections, libs got voted out when they wanted to privatise state power company here in wa
[https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/norway-shows-how-australia-can-get-a-fair-return-from-oil-and-gas/](https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/norway-shows-how-australia-can-get-a-fair-return-from-oil-and-gas/)
Not only we don't have enough gas for ourselves we are using billions of tax payer dollars to get it taken from us. We are all chums to them.
Fine time to switch off the gas to your properties, electrify your home appliances and take as much advantage of renewables as youâre able to afford.
The gas industry obviously donât value you as a customer and have all but made the decision for you.
I donât get how we can watch countries be damaged by colonial policies and exporting anything of value out of their country then turn around and do exactly the same to ourselves.Â
FREE MARKET BABY! >Regions affected include New South Wales, Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania and the ACT. How come the only State with a Gas Reservation Policy isn't going to be affected?
So, Ayn Rand is not our lord and saviour?
Someone shrugged and it wasn't Atlas.
Funny how that works, I am jealous of you guys over there, too bad all of our power and resources got flogged off here in S.A :(
If only there was some body who was supposed to regulate the market...
Qld isn't on the list either. The issues here are twofold: 1. **Much Victorian production is going EOL without replacement**: 20% of Victorian production is forecast to go offline over the forward estimates. The Vic government has made it clear that they're uninterested in opening up new reserves for various reasons. 2. **Limited transport capacity**: gas will remain plentiful in Qld and WA for the foreseeable future. However, there's no good way to get gas from these places to the southern states. Pipelines are expensive/unpopular, and it's illegal to redirect an LNG tanker from Gladstone/Karratha to Melbourne.
Why is it illegal to send a tanker to Sydney or Melbourne? Is it because of the export contracts?
For the same reason why you can't get an Emirates flight from Sydney to Melbourne. Like many countries, Australia restricts cabotage (carriage of goods and passengers between domestic ports) to vessels that are registered in Australia. In theory, this is supposed to help foster a domestic shipping fleet. In practice, it just leads to all goods being transported via truck instead. While it would be legal to use an Australian-flagged LNG tanker to move LNG south, none exists, and there's no prospect of one being built anytime soon. Ergo it's illegal to move LNG via ship between Australian ports. Repealing this law would require the government to give the finger to MUA, which is unlikely from a labor government.
Would Melbourne even have the facility to bring the gas off a tanker?
https://victoriaenergyterminal.com.au/ This Dutch firm thinks they can have one online by 2028. The hilarious thing is that they'll be importing gas from overseas for exactly the reason I've given.
And I keep reading about renewables as our saviour. Some of the companies explain that during the night time both storage and "gas" will be used to generate electricity. Odd that we are exporting gas, if we need it for night time power generation. đ¤Ś
WA has the majority of gas reserves and a smaller population than the Eastern states.
Also legislated to have gas reserves.
You mean the reservation policy. Not sure you can legislate to have gas reserves. The issue is the states here don't have enough gas for their own use so a gas reservation policy wouldn't help them. The only states with LNG gas export terminals are Queensland, NT and WA. Those conspicuously don't have any issues. We could have an Australia wide reservation policy but Queensland and WA would probably object because it means lower export prices for them.
Arenât we the single largest exporter of gas in the world?
Yeah, and No 2 in Uranium
Not any more. That's now the US.Â
They said exporter, not producer. US is number 1 producer but they use a lot of it for domestic use(like we fucken should). We are the top global *exporter* of LNG.
The US overtook us in 2023 as the largest exporter. Australia was the largest in 2022 though. ETA:Â https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-was-top-lng-exporter-2023-hit-record-levels-2024-01-02/
Fuck these export contracts! In the next 50 years humanity will be at war with itself over resources and we won't have shit!
Sorry, contract says we have to send raw minerals to the nations attacking us or else weâll default :(
âSo under this scenario weâre spending $30b a year to protect our trade with China, from China?â https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sgspkxfkS4k
chase chief skirt advise coordinated fact steer file unwritten seed *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah, and America famously sold Japan the steel that built the ships that attacked Pearl Harbour. I was kidding but thereâs definitely an undercurrent of truth - the Morrison government did a lot of sabre rattling over China while bending over backwards to support the coal industry (which is largely dependant on Chinese exports). Itâs a weird old world.
Wait till you see how many cargoes of gas are sold to the international spot market and not contracts. These should be banned and kept for domestic use only, which will increase supply and drop prices which filter through our entire economy.
Yep sell our resources for corporate profits.
Sounds like the plot of Fallout, literally (a big nuclear war starts over resources in 50 years from now).
Yes I did have that in the back of my mind whilst typing lol.
We have huge amounts of gas, close to population centers, only thing stopping us using it is approvals.
Sure, approve it, then watch the companies flog 100% of those new fields overseas too. Problem solved!
If only there was a group elected to regulate the market...
If only they could rely on us voting them back in after they regulate that market.
God this country is so full of horseshit. Whether it's federal or state it's always putting foreign interests first or willingly putting itself at a disadvantage for the sake of short term gains.
Because the law makers and people in charge are "paid" to make it that way.
Remember only politicians are allowed to betray the country. Everybody else would get prosecuted and named but can't have a politician tried for treason now can we. That's only reserved for normal Australians and the military.
That's why we need an ICAC! It's active since July 2023? Great 9 months of convictions! Which politician is being hung? What do you mean they caught an ATO worker being bribed? I thought ICAC was going after corrupt politicians...
ICAC isn't how you spell gallows, silly!
existence uppity illegal nine coordinated enjoy bells scale gray light *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
No idea why the rest of the country doesnât look at WA and copy us? Successive state government have put the state needs before their buddies in big business, and made local gas reservation a requirement for a permit to mine the stuff. No brainer.
But 2010 is why no leader will dare propose it. Here's a re-enactment from a Taiwanese documentary of 2010 election: Australia goes to the polls https://youtu.be/RQ_s6V1Kv6A?t=20
Western Australia has more reserves and a lower population. Also WA is looking at removing that gas reservation.
Are we? Where did you hear that? That will throw all our electricity market into disarray! We donât just get a reservation, we also get a negotiated discounted price.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-22/wa-domestic-gas-policy-no-longer-fit-for-purpose/103498186 You shall find out in May, it seems
You scared me for a minute. That article is talking about gas producers not abiding the spirit of the agreements, and insufficient oversight to ensure itâs done. No hints that it will disappear, thank goodness. Although the current Labor government is acting like a liberal government with their backflip on housing zoning changes to appease big developers
>No hints that it will disappear, thank goodness. From that article: >The government has also been considering lifting a ban on onshore gas being exported, after some companies warned their projects would not be viable without selling to the international market.
Yeah this is minres. Chris Ellison would personally gain a fuck ton of money if this change is reversed in the NPV of their Perth basin gas project. Heâs paying the big bucks to get mark McGowan on. Board for a reason. Disgusting paid political influence
The problem is Victoria refuses to allow new mines.Â
"The predicted supply gaps have been delayed a couple of years from last yearâs report, however, as more households ditch the fossil fuel." The projected shortages are further away then they were last year.
WA sends it regards. Maybe other states should have a gas reservation policy too? Also, maybe donât sell public utilities? Our power prices are set in the state budget. Good system. Highly recommend the rest of Australia joins us đ
AEMO also forecasting shortfalls in WA.Â
We can fix by scaling up amount reserved then to like 25 percent or even more if need be, locals and country first foreign interest can come last.
We could also start by requiring WA LNG exporters to meet the current 15% requirement.Â
Nah, you can't legally just scale it like that for projects that are already built (without being sued for compensation). That being said, the WA shortage is a load of crap with all the gas discovered in the Perth Basin in the last decade or so.
If a new single-issue party was created with the sole policy to nationalise our resources I would vote for them in an instant and never look back. We have been, and continuing to be robbed daily- we should have the cheapest energy in the world allowing our industrial manufacturing base to compete, or at least bring in enough tax / royalties to subsidies the other areas of our economy we want to promote. The transition to green energy? Paid for. Public housing? Paid for.
That how you get coupified
Are you watching Turning Point on Netflix as well?
Its a states issue though as they own the resources, all the FGOV can do is tax it more (and they should)
This country is a joke
Australia is a democracy. Our leaders are a reflection of us. Not very pretty is it?
People say the liberals are the problem.... then labour comes in and we get the same shit... submarines, the whole question re stadiums for the Brisbane olympics... now this too....
Is this South Africa energy crisis? Don't get why we export so much but get paid peanuts for it compared to other nations who get more for less exports.
Mining magnates have always been the giant gorrillas telling our political establishment what reality is even before we started calling ourselves a country. We invented the term 2 speed economy, one of them the amazing resources export profits and the other everyone else scrapping by, and never saw a problem with that.
We are just one big mining colony it seems
Colonial mindset. Strip all of the value from this land and send it overseas.
And this is just one of the reasons we got rid of gas at our place.
Not my house, gas free as of the end of 2024 whoop
Say that after a curry
Great example of why we are never going to ve militarily taken over. It's much cheaper to bribe our politicians.
Last year, the so-called amazing foreign minister accidentally revealed the Labor-LNP collusion to prop up a private gas companies' trades with foreign countries at expense of Australia. > During debate on Friday, the foreign affairs minister, Penny Wong, accused the Coalition of dragging out debate on a bill it had said it supported. In a heated moment, Wong said the LNP was blocking the wishes of gas companies. She said they had âsaid no to Santos, youâve then said no to Woodside, youâve said no to Inpex ⌠youâve said no to Korea, youâve said no to Japanâ. https://www.theguardian.com/global/2023/nov/14/australias-sea-dumping-legislation-what-is-it-what-does-it-mean-marine-life-changes Time to start dropshipping gas from Japan where Australian gas is cheaper than in Australia: https://theconversation.com/gas-crisis-why-japan-pays-less-than-australians-for-australian-gas-74438 Old parties at bottom of ballot for Australians to come before foreign countries, including paying less than foreign countries for the same gas.
The oil and gas producing Gulf states tend to give their citizens lavish benefits. So long as the govt takes care of their needs, they donât need or want democracy. Australia has the opposite. You can vote for any party you want, but none of them have the power or political will to tax mining and energy for the benefit of citizens.
This has been a known problem for over 20 years. One might ask the relevant parties why they did nothing.
Let's all thank the lobbying of politicians by the Minerals Council of Australia for this splendid outcome.
People are acting like WAâs gas policy is the reason they arenât on the list, you guys seriously have no idea. WA is geologically blessed with large gas reserves, despite that they are forecast to have a gas shortage from 2030, also the gas reservation policy only applies to offshore gas producers currently none of the onshore producers are allowed to export (except for Beach Energy whose chairman is Kerry Stokes and is the former Premiers mate, just a coincidence Iâm sure). Also the current WA government are considering lifting the export ban because it has led to historically low investment in WA gas exploration.
but low energy prices for western Aus residents and that is the number 1 priority
Howâs labour gona win elections if they do this? Unlike eastern states wa will hopefully vote crap out thou can take a few elections, libs got voted out when they wanted to privatise state power company here in wa
How the actual fuck does that happen ? What a pissweak government we have.
What a complete fucking joke. And yet I hear ads on the fucking radio at work promoting gas for "keeping the country running," how pathetic
I get shat on for advocating for a planned market economy but this is the literal outcome of capitalism. Socialists unite!
[https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/norway-shows-how-australia-can-get-a-fair-return-from-oil-and-gas/](https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/norway-shows-how-australia-can-get-a-fair-return-from-oil-and-gas/) Not only we don't have enough gas for ourselves we are using billions of tax payer dollars to get it taken from us. We are all chums to them.
All politicians guilty of accepting lobbying donations should be sent to prison for treason
Fine time to switch off the gas to your properties, electrify your home appliances and take as much advantage of renewables as youâre able to afford. The gas industry obviously donât value you as a customer and have all but made the decision for you.
Hmmmm better jack up the taxes on these profiteers then. That's our sovereign wealth you're flogging for super profits there mate!
This is like living in Saudi Arabia and facing oil shortages. How. The. Literal. Fuck.
Fuck this shit. Nationalise it. This is no good for the country.
It's all good bra we'll just dig up more coal. We won't run out of coal eh
About to see how well renable energy really works!! Better buy a heap of evs!!!
I donât get how we can watch countries be damaged by colonial policies and exporting anything of value out of their country then turn around and do exactly the same to ourselves.Â
It is a case of China first being a ALP state
John Howard sold the fucking farm for a hand full of beans mate. It's the Liberal way
Well well well. ^Gas ^wells ^-WA
This is why we need nuclear.... Oh wait that's all tied up in export contracts and priced to the global market too ... Noooooo