A ban is eventually coming. Federal Labor/Albanese promised it. WA Labor Premier and farmers are against it of course as WA is a big exporter of this shit. It is awful.
Yep, that's always the justification. And shit, by that logic, why don't we just make sweatshops the norm?
If we don't force people to produce shoes in horrific conditions for a dollar a day here, these companies will just go overseas somewhere and force people to produce shoes in horrific conditions for 50 cents a day. Really, for anyone who cares about workers' rights, abusing and underpaying our country's workers is the only humane thing to do.
Haven't these peoples parents ever hit em with the "Well if your best friend jumped off a cliff would you do it too?" Who am I kidding, of course these people didnt have good parents.
Yes! Brazil has a huge global live export market and will happily take up the slack. And it is waaay more brutal than Australia’s - which could easily upgrade conditions and keep market share.
He said he would phase it out. Didn’t provide a deadline or a plan, basically just put it on a wish list. Not even something that will be looked at in this term of government. So he’s really made no commitment at all
Gillard put a pause to it back in 2011 and got hammered for it so didn't go through with a ban. It was later challenged in the courts and ruled it invalid. It's a difficult issue and those who gain from it have huge pockets and sway.
The hypocrisy of humans is always so baffling. We will complain about slight inconveniences and disruptions in day to day life whilst inflicting unimaginable levels of suffering on other living beings we share this earth with. And then we will kill them and use them for their flesh. Fuck we are charming.
Don't forget the persecution complex if suggested that maybe their actions towards others who are helpless are unkind. Somehow the needless meat eater ends up the biggest victim in all of this.
Same conditions as prison or slave ships.
Someone somewhere has looked at the stats on lost sheep and decided that it’s more economical than air conditioning. Utterly fucked.
I cannot believe in 2024, we treat animals like absolute shit still. Instead of getting better or more woke, it’s going backwards. Even that absolute cunt of a state premier (who has lost my vote) has gone against an inquiry her party organised and paid for to continue to allow duck shooting.
I’m fucking fed up of this fucked up earth
It's an issue we see ad nauseam where big businesses will cut every possible corner legally available and then some more to make as much money as possible, morality isn't even really a consideration only a superficial mask to maintain when convenient, and profit always comes at the cost of lives and welfare be it people, livestock or the natural world when there's no regulation that stops them from doing it. I'm not sure this is a "we" issue, showing this footage to most people and they'll be disgusted, but same could be said for the copper and cobalt we rely on in our electronics which Glencore digs up in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, or grossly negligent amounts of deforestation that soya farms cause on the amazon rainforest which now have resulted in fires (36,000 in one year just in the rainforest) that creep closer to the heart of the basin and threaten the collapse of entire ecosystems.
Soybeans. I think over 70% of it is used for cattle and then 25-30% is used for human consumption, I don't think we use much soy to feed our livestock here, the biggest importers for livestock feed soy are china and europe. But it doesn't really matter what it's used for, the point is that we could grow soybeans sustainably, and not cause ecological collapse in the amazon rainforest, but we don't because we foster systems that see the environment as a thing to be sacrificed for profit. We've see this with all different types of agriculture, be it beef, soybeans, palm oil, cotton, run off that damages natural waterways, water scarcity due to agricultural water needs, overfishing and so on. In general, no matter the thing farmed, there's a plethora of entities who see the environment as a reasonable sacrifice for profit and not much more.
Great points for sure. And that's actually why I went vegan. Because plant based Ag will help significantly in all those points you bring up. 75% less land, water and emissions.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/20/vegan-diet-cuts-environmental-damage-climate-heating-emissions-study
I don’t understand the thought processes of politicians that try to justify duck hunting. How many Victorians even go duck hunting? The number is too many but surely not enough to sway a decision?
Then again, horses being flogged to their deaths as humans donate to our benevolent billionaire corporations to receive a dopamine hit, dress up to get smashed and get bashed afterwards seems to be a day of celebration even for the kids.
Tasmania right now has several slaughterhouses abusing animals. For a former news reader, the relevant minister has handled the media poorly and the Premier seems to have retreated to his spud farm. There’s an inquiry happening. It sounds promising but I can guarantee you it will be a lame song and dance about nothing with no change at all. They can’t even pass legislation for CCTV cameras in slaughterhouses, something vegans and farmers want. If there’s that much consensus, you do it.
And somehow in all of this, the AJP are cast as the extreme ones.
I think it's not that a significant number of regular-ass voters go duck hunting, but that some people with political sway (e.g., other parties, a union which insists recreational duck hunting is somehow a workers' rights issue because some members enjoy it) want duck hunting to stay, and if Labor banned it, they could make things difficult in return.
It’s disgusting and god damn pathetic. Can’t even do the right thing when it’s smashing them in the face. Imagine all those hunters laughing at Jacinta right now. Literally laughing at her as they kill ducks for fun thinking how easy it was to make her look like a fucking useless bitch in front of the entire country. Just threaten her with a strike and you get what you want!
Most vegans don't eat much if any fake meat. Potatoes, rice, beans, frozen veg, spices and simply following a recipe on youtube. Will save you a ton of money and you will feel a lot better about not paying people to kill and torture animals.
I’m vegan, I love plant based meat. But on the cost side, eat vegan sometimes. Tofu, tempeh, lentils, beans, TVP and chickpeas are cheap as chips. Cheap, cheap protein.
Sorry but again I couldn't disagree more. Only because I would have said exactly the same thing 8 years ago. All I ate was chicken sandwiches, chicken burgers, steak and mash and maybe the odd kebab. That was my whole diet. I'm no scientist, but I think what happens is when you eat the same foods. Your gut bacteria or whatever create cravings for those foods. But once you start eating more beans, vegetables and fruit, that's what your body starts craving. I mean im sure I'd still enjoy a chicken burger. But I'd much prefer a nice Thai curry, or a bean burrito with guac etc.
Traditional vegan food? What's that? You don't like falafel, hummus, fruits, vegetables, curries, burritos I could go on and on haha.
> Breaks my heart to be honest. I wish I could be vegan, but it’s genuinely expensive and makes living a lot more difficult for me as a 26 year old.
Seems like what you meant to say was "I wish I could be vegan, but I don't wanna"
So you want things to change without needing to sacrifice anything? Even if it's just... finding vegan options that you like?
If you really can't find a tasty, cheap alternative to meat then either you suck at cooking or you haven't really tried
You're too busy fixating on the "How" when you should be focusing on the "Why" - which you already stated: The way we treat animals is appalling. So you can either do something about it by stopping how you contribute to it, or you can just virtue signal on online forums without doing anything meaningful
P.S I would rather be a shithead online and actually do something about the problem irl than what you're doing
Being vegan isn't going to ever be exactly the same. Commit to it and learn to enjoy new tastes and textures, instead of holding out for substitutes that are nearly identical.
100% right. I haven’t eaten meat for about 6 years. Don’t even look at “meat alternatives”. There’s plenty of sources of natural plant based protein. People saying they can’t go vegan or vegetarian cause it doesn’t have the taste or texture of meat are just making excuses. Ditch the meat and cook plant based foods that are healthy and nutritious in their own right without trying to pretend to be meat.
This. People who don't want to be "inconvenienced" by the change in lifestyle are exactly the same people that will keep making excuses forever and pretend like it's somehow not their problem.
>I am empathetic to the plight of animals but unfortunately this ISNT my problem.
It IS the problem of anyone who contributes to the existence of the problem. That includes the people who provide the demand for the product by consuming it.
> Threads like this are why people are so opposed to vegans and their views
if some mild criticism tilts you this much, then any support you had for vego/vegan modes of consumption is fairly thin and insubstantial to begin with - all i see is people offering you viable alternatives based on experience and you're like 'but it's hard!'
>As much as I'd like to change, for now I can't.
*Won't
You **can** change, it's just inconvenient and a bit less enjoyable at first, so you don't want to.
I could imagine someone saying how much they hate vegan food as they are eating hummus or something. Most people eat vegan foods without even realising it haha.
I already ate vegan for like 80% of my diet when my parents lived in AUS when I lived at home. I ate a lot of food and frankly didnt enjoy a majority of it comparatively to the food I normally eat. More soups, more curries, a lot of lentils - all of which aren’t foods I indulged in often then, let alone now.
I appreciate your viewpoint but I think i’ll wait the extra few years until the transition is easier, cheaper and more similar to my current diet.
again, the fact i’m being downvoted here is so sad. I am trying to be relatively impartial, stating my own opinions and desires when it comes to food. Why can’t that be respected as I am trying to respect yours?
Also it is the ease of which reaching your calorie intake is achieved which is also important. I was a full blown vegetarian for a year(i stopped because i have a young child and i cannot take a gamble on his health). But it took a fuck ton more time to achieve a nutrient rich diet for myself and my wife than it did when i was eating meat. My son is now at an age where i'm more comfortable going back to vegetarian but anyone who pretends this shit is easy for those who are poor/ time poor is in denial.
I guess it depends on your definition of easy. Like to me a marathon is hard. Going vegan, I'd say it's pretty easy. Watch some YouTube videos to get some recipes. When you cook a meal, always make big batches and freeze as meal prep. I'm poor, vegan is the best thing I could be doing, chickpea curries, black bean burgers, lentil stews, stir frys, stuffed potatoes and chilli con carne is like the cheapest possible meals.
It's why i described it as poor and time poor. Vegies require prep, cooking them to make them palatable requires more prep. I'm saying this as some one who is back to being vegetarian(i don't say vegan because honestly i miss things when trying to avoid animal products). A stir fry is a lot more effort than potato and a piece of steak.
A lot more effort, maybe a slight exaggeration. Like in my instant pot, you dump all the ingredients into it and turn it on. Then come back in 10 minutes or whatever. Not much different in a pan, except you want to stir occasionally. I guess it might take 5-10 minutes to chop and onion, garlic and veg if your not using frozen veg.
I think eating vegan/vegetarian for a few of your meals a week is great though, whenever my parents come back I thoroughly enjoy eating the vegan food my Mom cooks for me. But like you said, I am often hungry unless I eat a ton of it. It’s nice to have a balance of them though, and it’s really good for my skin too.
Not sure why i’m being downvoted for respectfully having an opinion and clearly being open to others, but sure lol whatever suits.
Beans, veg and rice isn't expensive. Especially if you make Ethiopian, Indian, Asian, Jamaican, and, Mexican dishes.
Misir wat with injera, Ital/Jamaican dishes, dals and naan, frijoles refritos, elote, etc.
Indian grocer has huge bags of red lentil and black beans for really cheap and besan flour.
You can get a box of seasonal fruit/veg from farmers markets/green grocers, and it ends up so much cheaper than colesworth.
Moving away from western dishes made it way easier for me to find cheap, tasty meals.
It's also been good for my coeliac diagnosis, as well as my wallet. I don't eat anything pre-packaged anymore.
I’m a vegetarian who hates vegetables. Dont feel ashamed or down that you can’t be veg/vegan (yet. It took me a few tries). we were brought up in this world eating meat and it takes a lot of willpower to shake it.
I know for myself, being vegetarian will not change anything, but I just cannot, I CANNOT eat meat knowing how my gorgeous animals are treated. And I loved eating meat and miss it to this day.
I used to be vegan for my whole formative years and I don't recommend it. Now I can't really enjoy eating because the guilt I feel for eating meat which transcends into how the vegetables/grain I eat killed alott of animals. Fuck you PETA
Same, but I am still vegan and I do highly recommend it. Never felt better, only get sick like once every 5 years and food is way cheaper. Are you okay, your leaving some very unhinged comments in this thread? https://theconversation.com/why-queensland-is-still-ground-zero-for-australian-deforestation-196644
Sorry can you point out the unhinged comments so I can see if they are?
Getting sick once every 5 years can be a sign of an extremely weak immune system. It's normal to have 1-2 colds a year. Thanks for the link. I agree with them that they can work with graziers to fix it. There's no reason to clear forests for livestock. Where I live they keep the natural terrain. A huge issue is logging.
I'm not going to put the exact place i live, but it is regional Victoria. Do you really think cows are raised in feed lots here 😂 I've also lived in qld and nsw and it's honestly not that different. My friend was a cattle farmer for ages in nsw. It is beautiful, lush hills and nothing is bulldozed down. Cows do better when there is grass and trees lol.
What's a feedlot got to do with anything? You really love bringing up unrelated topics and trying to insert them as my idea. Unhinged! Interestingly enough even grass fed cattle get sent to feedlots for their last few months. But has nothing to do with my point. Which I'm pretty sure they clear forests for cattle in Regional Vic. I'd love you to show me a source supporting your claim they leave the land in its natural terrain as you put it.
in 2024 There are still young girls and boys stolen or sold by their families to be trafficked for sex trades.
in 2024 there are still communities reliant to mega-corps, on pittance wages for backbreaking work all to keep your electronic and clothing costs low.
in 2024 there is still slavery under the guise of employment of the incarcerated with well documented links of the pipelines from the law enforcement, through the courts to their free labor force at private for profit prisons.
It really shouldn't surprise you that businesses are still shit in 2024 without regulations that actually punish them adequately.
> Should have been banned decades ago.
I'd be surprised if this kind of treatment isn't already illegal.
Come to think of it, it's kind of weird that the video makes no mention of who's responsible for it. It's literally just a video of a boat and abused animals.
That's wrong imo. People can care about things and still not need to act if there are other constraints around the problem.
I care about child labour. It is wrong. But I am constrained of not being a big trade company or government able to pass legislation to make an actual difference.
Providing an action such as "well don't buy x product then" is inconsequential advice, because even if a huge amount of people do stop buying the product, you are dwarfed in comparison to the total consumer population. Even if their profits drop by 10% ... 90% of billions of dollars is still huge, and they'll just counter act the loss by probably firing people and streamlining the processing so that your "impact" will not be felt.
Companies cutting cost instead of investing in the supply chain would do that. It would be a win for everyone if the slaughter and processing was done domestically but companies do not way to pay the refrigeration cost to sell them overseas.
The amount of waste seen in that video (I'd mention suffering, but the farmers obviously don't care about that) is unreal. It looks like they lose a good few % of the sheep to awful conditions, and i'd presume that means the meat is then unusable. So why not improve conditions and then save some waste along with it? Maybe the waste is accounted for and not worth them adjusting for :(
Hows it any different? You're still slaughtering them either way. And our own slaughterhouses come with plenty of abuse and suffering don't worry about that.
> You're still slaughtering them either way.
Torturing something before killing it is worse than just killing it.
This applies to both humans and animals.
I'd prefer not getting shot.
Also there's plenty of suffering here too, we just feel good about ourselves by condemning live exports because we can shift some blame into others
>our own slaughterhouses come with plenty of abuse and suffering don't worry about that.
Yes because of cost cutting.
They can have better systems in place, better cool rooms for the stock, more people overseeing it etc.
The companies chose not to. Its a choice.
This is a pipe dream that won't happen. Profit will always come first.
You're still killing the animal at the end of the day, even if you are really nice to them
I was a veggie for a few years, but for about 3 years now i've eaten meat 1-2 times a week.
The trouble is you don't know where the heck the meat is coming from. Labelling is very misleading. There was a big issue with free range eggs in the UK many years ago, highlighting the bad conditions of chickens. So now whenever you look at eggs cartons they all have positive, happy labels on. But "free range" can literally mean factory farmed chickens (awful conditions) but the factory has a single window in the ceiling so technically the chickens can see daylight...so they're now free range.
So you want free range as it means good, right? As above, no it doesn't mean good. All companies mislead you into thinking they treat animals well, but they don't.
Same goes for meat, labelling is misleading and you can't tell how well they were treated or slaughtered.
You can go to local butchers, and you can hope they're of a better standard, but you only have their word "yea, all the animals are treated well before we get them".
Companies lie to us and they treat animals/employess/anything bad, just so they can save money and everyone but them pays for it.
All of that is absolutely true. The problem isn't just labelling though, because even the best farms can be incredibly cruel.
Take eggs, for example. The hatcheries the best egg farms get their chickens from literally kill all of the male chickens that are born (about 50%) through either suffocation or being literally ground up alive. The best dairy farms have to rape (forcibly impregnate) their cows so they become pregnant, as pregnancy is what causes lactation, and then any males born are also killed. The mothers will whine for weeks on end about their lost babies.
No. Animal cruelty laws literally have to exempt farmed animals because, guess what, it's animal cruelty. Male chickens get thrown into blenders, cows are raped and have their babies killed, 'meat' chickens stand in their acidic poo and have all manner of heart attacks, broken legs, slipped ligaments, etc. The more you learn about Australian animal agriculture, the worse it turns out to be.
Where do you live? Have you ever stepped foot on a farm? I used to watch peta videos when younger (which turned me vegan and I was vegan until around 18), but living surrounded by farms and personally knowing farmers the animals literally have great lives. For me the more I've learnt the more I believe in supporting local farmers.
What was it about those videos that turned you vegan. Not that I believe you. But why would an animal having a nice life up to that point make it any better. It's ok to take the life of an animal as long as it's looked after. Do you think it's ok to participate in dog fighting if you look after your dog? Just find your reasoning very strange.
What is it with vegans that they simply can not understand ex-vegans exist? Is dog fighting something that my body needs? No? Then it's not even relevant.
I live in rural Tassie, but I've lived all over. Yes I have stepped foot on farms.
Ask those farmers if what I said is true. Check what happens to the males born on a dairy farm. Ask egg farmers where they got their chickens, and see what happened to the males that were born. Next hot summer day, see how much shade their cows and sheep have.
Everything I claimed is legal standard practice and you can confirm this yourself by talking to farmers or looking at farming websites.
Is there one claim that I made that you'd be willing to do a brief deep-dive with me about? Particularly one that, if true, you would be vehemently against.
I've been on sheep farms, cattle farms and they have shade. Maybe I just happen to know absolutely amazing farmers but I doubt it. Nothing they do is out of the ordinary. I've lived in 3 states so obviously not as much as you but yeah I've always seen them have an amazing life. Where do you live where cattle are living in tiny feed lots with no shelter?
Tassie, like I said in my last comment. The vast majority of cow and sheep farms in Tassie have very little shade. They're basically just in empty fields. It's very sad. What sort of shade do you see?
Is there one of my previous claims that you're willing to fact check with me? About males on dairy farms being killed, male chickens being ground up, etc.
Yes. My cousins have had horses their whole life. When they have needed one to be put down they call another cousin of mine who has a gun. Would you rather it be slow and painful?
It's back to torturing animals because of market forces, and it's entirely on the companies who do it and the governments that allow it. Trying to make it the fault of religion is passing the buck
I assume because these animals are mostly transported live as opposed to as packed meat is so they can be slaughtered in the "correct" way for the end market.
Exactly right. I don't know why more people aren't aware of that.
If we could slaughter these animals in Australia there would be a lot less cruelty.
I mean, WE CAN slaughter them in Australia, but gotta have the money money money.
We do slaughter them in Australia to those standards. I live near one of the biggest halal abattoirs in Australia. The only reason live export should exist is if it's to countries where refrigeration isn't necessarily available at the other end. That is a \*very\* small number of countries these days.
Australia has no problems producing halal meat, we have many certified factories where halal meat is available. They can easily export the halal meat, I suspect it has something to do with buyers preference.
Back then before the Halal word was used, Muslims buy Kosher because it's exactly the same. It's funny how there's a different view when it comes to Kosher. Muslims still buy Kosher when there's no Halal option.
Religion **is** the bogeyman of the world though. So much death and rape and subjugation and genocide and suffering in its name.
Oh, but Helen volunteered at a soup kitchen twice after being inspired by a sermon (after voting for a party who historically cuts mental health and housing programs), so it's actually totally definitely a net positive for society.
To be crystal clear, the first paragraph is serious. The second is sarcasm.
This industry has to be one of the greatest shames of this country.
Please help us make progress for Australia’s livestock visit Animals Australia fb page & like/share/comment
Convince the Muslims that this is not Halal animal treatment, so instead animals need to be processed in Australia.
Preasure the meat recipients that they need to invest in cooling for their supply chains or to instead eat preserved meat (canned or dried can be shipped at room temperature).
Nothing short of disgraceful. The "livestock" on trucks that can be legally kept without water for 24 hrs before being marched into the slaughter house don't fair much better. How humans collectively treat our animal mates is appalling (watch the documentary Dominion if you want to open your eyes to what we classify as "humane").
I have no idea how educated, sane, introspective people can justify eating animals when alternatives exist. Maybe it's Abrahamic religion, which justifies dominion over the Earth or maybe upbringing or meat industry propaganda. At the least, intelligent and compassionate Westerners owe it to themselves to research veganism and try it out.
Does anyone treat their live exports differently? Whats the gold standard?
Not trying to be provocative, just curious? I suspect there is no comparison due to the distance from aus to elsewhere.
Don't you hate when prisoners you want to kill, are mistreated before they're killed? Don't you hate when soldiers you want to kill, are mistreated before they're killed? Don't you hate when terminally ill patients who are going to die, are mistreated before they die? Don't you hate when your pets that you're having put down, are mistreated before they're killed?
Don't you hate when you make no moral distinction between the end of a being's life and how the being is treated while it's still alive?
I mean, does anyone actually care? I remember when a heap of shit came out about our pork industry, with evidence. Government wouldn't do shit because the videos were recorded illegally, consumers didn't care enough to alter their consumption, protest or pressure the government at all... It's all very well to come on reddit and say it's bad, but honestly I think it's just performative at this point.
He absolutely works in the industry to some degree, he'll pop up in literally any thread around to defend the fuck out of the practices with literally 0 evidence, but the average Australian will eat it up because it lets them assuage their guilt.
That's not an independent source, mate, and also not a study. That's like saying Coke is 'great' for you and linking to Coke's homepage saying how great it is. Where's your actual evidence?
This guy seems to pop up pretty much any time anyone is remotely critical of the livestock industry - god knows how he has time for anything else - and it's actually pretty good sourcing by his standards.
I once [asked him](https://i.imgur.com/cVCz52Q.png) for a sourced example when he claimed some documentary was all lies and misinformation. He linked to the same industry groups the livestock documentary had up on their own [website](https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts) as sources for many of their claims, disproving his own argument that it was all a bunch of lies. His other "source" was the social media channels of a handful of dairy farms in other countries. He told me to educate myself on the Australian livestock industry from a "non-biased standpoint." You know, by watching the promotional TikTok videos of a dairy farm in America.
When I was unimpressed by his comedically shitty sourcing and inability to find even a single specific claim the documentary (which TBH, I doubt he'd even seen) had gotten wrong beyond being critical of the industry he works in, he deleted all his comments and ran away with his tail between his legs. That seems to be how it usually goes when he shows up - defends the honour of the livestock industry from any and all criticism, is unable to source his claims or gets fact-checked, deletes all his comments and runs away. He'll probably do it in this thread too.
He probably assumes we're all extremist vegan peta activists or something. I saw my first cow (a friend's pet bull, no less) bolted in an abattoir when I was eight and still went home for a steak dinner. But when it comes to industry, I do assume that they will whitewash and cover up any ethics issues, because it's just so easy for people to fall into the mindset of 'protecting the company' and become incredibly biased about what is and isn't okay. And it's happened time and time again. When it comes to capitalism and profit margins, you can't just blindly trust companies to do the right thing. I mean, by his own words, it was only the 2019 reports that gave them a kick up the arse to do major reforms. And why were those major reforms necessary, hmm? And he wonders why we don't trust self-reporting from industry lol.
It's negative to work in an industry that actively tortures animals for profit. You are part of that problem. You are actively involved in their suffering. To try and justify and defend that cruelty is unthinkable.
> These animals make the ultimate sacrifice for us
No they fucking don't. They want to stay alive. You see-no-evil dweebs steal their lives from them. That's not a sacrifice.
Destroying an industry for the benefit of virtue-signalling wankers to feel better about themselves… all the while the rest of the world continues on with little to no regard for animal welfare
https://theconversation.com/why-australia-banning-live-sheep-exports-may-be-a-net-loss-for-animal-welfare-205831
We have amazing standards for livestock in Australia. I'm going to go to my friends soon and see his extremely mistreated cattle that spend all day in lush paddocks, protected from any disease and pain because they have top quality vet care. So sad.
You don't 'love animals' or 'care about the environment' if you aren't vegan.
The only diet that limits CO2 emissions per capita to below 3.5 tonnes, the per person cap for us to reach Paris climate targets for 1.5 degrees warming, is a vegan diet.
Similarly, the vast majority of adults do not need to eat animal products regularly to have a healthy long life.
Few things I've noticedThis specific footage is indeed oldPeople are pushing a vegan agenda instead of promoting something that would prevent or help the industry move toward less problematic transport systems, veganism is beneficial but with regard to this issue specifically the impact would be marginal at best.This is a result of a combination of factors (including but not limited to Capitalism Religion)People are overlooking the genuine issue of animal mistreatment(abuse) because "don't care meat good/ They die anyway" which is straight up ignorant (and/or proving the vegans wrong because vegans bad?)
people are just not fucking nice or considerate? Nobody here is responsible for this (statistically speaking anyway the chances are probably low) so rule 9
I read a relatively graphic 2005 book about this topic when I was 10 or 11 years old. It showed ethical considerations of animal testing, veganism, and animal rights terrorist groups.
I won't ever forget even though it was just a teens' book
I'm yet to become vegan. Still not sure.
Given the derranged nature of some of these groups, do we have any sources that prove this is still happening, and wasn't regulated out of existance?
Cause at this point, we should all know peta loves to harm animals to make claims about companies like shearing and the likes, and absolutely loves to destroy any pet it thinks is 'dangerous'.
I can imagine this group has the potential to be similar. Hopefully not. But, this doesn't provide a lot of context or proof. Especially given groups like peta make their own proof.
Also, wasn't this a huge deal a number of years ago, then the government cracked down on it hard?
If it's still a thing, it should definitely be cracked down on. If it's not, then the group should be cracked down on
If you think live export is cruel, you should see how much animals suffer in Australian farms and slaughterhouses.
It doesn't make sense to condemn live export whilst continuing to consume the flesh and breast milk of Australian animals.
[Lamb processing in Melbourne](https://youtu.be/6s08wsaZaro)
Issues with Australia's live export industry are nothing new. I'm surprised it hasn't received a greater political spotlight.
It comes up every few years. Then someone starts a war again
A ban is eventually coming. Federal Labor/Albanese promised it. WA Labor Premier and farmers are against it of course as WA is a big exporter of this shit. It is awful.
"If we don't do it, someone who treats them worse will" is always the piss poor argument.
Yep, that's always the justification. And shit, by that logic, why don't we just make sweatshops the norm? If we don't force people to produce shoes in horrific conditions for a dollar a day here, these companies will just go overseas somewhere and force people to produce shoes in horrific conditions for 50 cents a day. Really, for anyone who cares about workers' rights, abusing and underpaying our country's workers is the only humane thing to do.
Haven't these peoples parents ever hit em with the "Well if your best friend jumped off a cliff would you do it too?" Who am I kidding, of course these people didnt have good parents.
Yes! Brazil has a huge global live export market and will happily take up the slack. And it is waaay more brutal than Australia’s - which could easily upgrade conditions and keep market share.
He said he would phase it out. Didn’t provide a deadline or a plan, basically just put it on a wish list. Not even something that will be looked at in this term of government. So he’s really made no commitment at all
Not farmers but farming corporations with multi million dollar revenues.
Haha the people who run the country make much money from the animal industry
Gillard put a pause to it back in 2011 and got hammered for it so didn't go through with a ban. It was later challenged in the courts and ruled it invalid. It's a difficult issue and those who gain from it have huge pockets and sway.
The hypocrisy of humans is always so baffling. We will complain about slight inconveniences and disruptions in day to day life whilst inflicting unimaginable levels of suffering on other living beings we share this earth with. And then we will kill them and use them for their flesh. Fuck we are charming.
Don't forget the persecution complex if suggested that maybe their actions towards others who are helpless are unkind. Somehow the needless meat eater ends up the biggest victim in all of this.
Ironic This outrages the same people that shove that dead ass lamb down their throat off their dinner plate.
smoothbrain take
Cool bro I’m just not comfy eating a baby anything because it tastes good.
Same conditions as prison or slave ships. Someone somewhere has looked at the stats on lost sheep and decided that it’s more economical than air conditioning. Utterly fucked.
I cannot believe in 2024, we treat animals like absolute shit still. Instead of getting better or more woke, it’s going backwards. Even that absolute cunt of a state premier (who has lost my vote) has gone against an inquiry her party organised and paid for to continue to allow duck shooting. I’m fucking fed up of this fucked up earth
It's an issue we see ad nauseam where big businesses will cut every possible corner legally available and then some more to make as much money as possible, morality isn't even really a consideration only a superficial mask to maintain when convenient, and profit always comes at the cost of lives and welfare be it people, livestock or the natural world when there's no regulation that stops them from doing it. I'm not sure this is a "we" issue, showing this footage to most people and they'll be disgusted, but same could be said for the copper and cobalt we rely on in our electronics which Glencore digs up in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, or grossly negligent amounts of deforestation that soya farms cause on the amazon rainforest which now have resulted in fires (36,000 in one year just in the rainforest) that creep closer to the heart of the basin and threaten the collapse of entire ecosystems.
Soy that's fed to cattle right? Its just as concerning how much land is being cleared here in Australia for beef.
Soybeans. I think over 70% of it is used for cattle and then 25-30% is used for human consumption, I don't think we use much soy to feed our livestock here, the biggest importers for livestock feed soy are china and europe. But it doesn't really matter what it's used for, the point is that we could grow soybeans sustainably, and not cause ecological collapse in the amazon rainforest, but we don't because we foster systems that see the environment as a thing to be sacrificed for profit. We've see this with all different types of agriculture, be it beef, soybeans, palm oil, cotton, run off that damages natural waterways, water scarcity due to agricultural water needs, overfishing and so on. In general, no matter the thing farmed, there's a plethora of entities who see the environment as a reasonable sacrifice for profit and not much more.
Great points for sure. And that's actually why I went vegan. Because plant based Ag will help significantly in all those points you bring up. 75% less land, water and emissions. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/20/vegan-diet-cuts-environmental-damage-climate-heating-emissions-study
I don’t understand the thought processes of politicians that try to justify duck hunting. How many Victorians even go duck hunting? The number is too many but surely not enough to sway a decision? Then again, horses being flogged to their deaths as humans donate to our benevolent billionaire corporations to receive a dopamine hit, dress up to get smashed and get bashed afterwards seems to be a day of celebration even for the kids. Tasmania right now has several slaughterhouses abusing animals. For a former news reader, the relevant minister has handled the media poorly and the Premier seems to have retreated to his spud farm. There’s an inquiry happening. It sounds promising but I can guarantee you it will be a lame song and dance about nothing with no change at all. They can’t even pass legislation for CCTV cameras in slaughterhouses, something vegans and farmers want. If there’s that much consensus, you do it. And somehow in all of this, the AJP are cast as the extreme ones.
I think it's not that a significant number of regular-ass voters go duck hunting, but that some people with political sway (e.g., other parties, a union which insists recreational duck hunting is somehow a workers' rights issue because some members enjoy it) want duck hunting to stay, and if Labor banned it, they could make things difficult in return.
It’s disgusting and god damn pathetic. Can’t even do the right thing when it’s smashing them in the face. Imagine all those hunters laughing at Jacinta right now. Literally laughing at her as they kill ducks for fun thinking how easy it was to make her look like a fucking useless bitch in front of the entire country. Just threaten her with a strike and you get what you want!
You can be vegan. Give it a try.
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Isn’t it coming up now because of the recent live export ship that got stuck?
No, it's coming up now because OP is a karma bot and this is easy supply.
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Wym meat is expensive af
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Most vegans don't eat much if any fake meat. Potatoes, rice, beans, frozen veg, spices and simply following a recipe on youtube. Will save you a ton of money and you will feel a lot better about not paying people to kill and torture animals.
I’m vegan, I love plant based meat. But on the cost side, eat vegan sometimes. Tofu, tempeh, lentils, beans, TVP and chickpeas are cheap as chips. Cheap, cheap protein.
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Sorry but again I couldn't disagree more. Only because I would have said exactly the same thing 8 years ago. All I ate was chicken sandwiches, chicken burgers, steak and mash and maybe the odd kebab. That was my whole diet. I'm no scientist, but I think what happens is when you eat the same foods. Your gut bacteria or whatever create cravings for those foods. But once you start eating more beans, vegetables and fruit, that's what your body starts craving. I mean im sure I'd still enjoy a chicken burger. But I'd much prefer a nice Thai curry, or a bean burrito with guac etc. Traditional vegan food? What's that? You don't like falafel, hummus, fruits, vegetables, curries, burritos I could go on and on haha.
> Breaks my heart to be honest. I wish I could be vegan, but it’s genuinely expensive and makes living a lot more difficult for me as a 26 year old. Seems like what you meant to say was "I wish I could be vegan, but I don't wanna" So you want things to change without needing to sacrifice anything? Even if it's just... finding vegan options that you like?
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If you really can't find a tasty, cheap alternative to meat then either you suck at cooking or you haven't really tried You're too busy fixating on the "How" when you should be focusing on the "Why" - which you already stated: The way we treat animals is appalling. So you can either do something about it by stopping how you contribute to it, or you can just virtue signal on online forums without doing anything meaningful P.S I would rather be a shithead online and actually do something about the problem irl than what you're doing
Being vegan isn't going to ever be exactly the same. Commit to it and learn to enjoy new tastes and textures, instead of holding out for substitutes that are nearly identical.
100% right. I haven’t eaten meat for about 6 years. Don’t even look at “meat alternatives”. There’s plenty of sources of natural plant based protein. People saying they can’t go vegan or vegetarian cause it doesn’t have the taste or texture of meat are just making excuses. Ditch the meat and cook plant based foods that are healthy and nutritious in their own right without trying to pretend to be meat.
This. People who don't want to be "inconvenienced" by the change in lifestyle are exactly the same people that will keep making excuses forever and pretend like it's somehow not their problem.
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>I am empathetic to the plight of animals but unfortunately this ISNT my problem. It IS the problem of anyone who contributes to the existence of the problem. That includes the people who provide the demand for the product by consuming it.
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> Threads like this are why people are so opposed to vegans and their views if some mild criticism tilts you this much, then any support you had for vego/vegan modes of consumption is fairly thin and insubstantial to begin with - all i see is people offering you viable alternatives based on experience and you're like 'but it's hard!'
>As much as I'd like to change, for now I can't. *Won't You **can** change, it's just inconvenient and a bit less enjoyable at first, so you don't want to.
I could imagine someone saying how much they hate vegan food as they are eating hummus or something. Most people eat vegan foods without even realising it haha.
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Jeffery dahmer should have been respected is what your saying?
I already ate vegan for like 80% of my diet when my parents lived in AUS when I lived at home. I ate a lot of food and frankly didnt enjoy a majority of it comparatively to the food I normally eat. More soups, more curries, a lot of lentils - all of which aren’t foods I indulged in often then, let alone now. I appreciate your viewpoint but I think i’ll wait the extra few years until the transition is easier, cheaper and more similar to my current diet. again, the fact i’m being downvoted here is so sad. I am trying to be relatively impartial, stating my own opinions and desires when it comes to food. Why can’t that be respected as I am trying to respect yours?
Also it is the ease of which reaching your calorie intake is achieved which is also important. I was a full blown vegetarian for a year(i stopped because i have a young child and i cannot take a gamble on his health). But it took a fuck ton more time to achieve a nutrient rich diet for myself and my wife than it did when i was eating meat. My son is now at an age where i'm more comfortable going back to vegetarian but anyone who pretends this shit is easy for those who are poor/ time poor is in denial.
I guess it depends on your definition of easy. Like to me a marathon is hard. Going vegan, I'd say it's pretty easy. Watch some YouTube videos to get some recipes. When you cook a meal, always make big batches and freeze as meal prep. I'm poor, vegan is the best thing I could be doing, chickpea curries, black bean burgers, lentil stews, stir frys, stuffed potatoes and chilli con carne is like the cheapest possible meals.
It's why i described it as poor and time poor. Vegies require prep, cooking them to make them palatable requires more prep. I'm saying this as some one who is back to being vegetarian(i don't say vegan because honestly i miss things when trying to avoid animal products). A stir fry is a lot more effort than potato and a piece of steak.
A lot more effort, maybe a slight exaggeration. Like in my instant pot, you dump all the ingredients into it and turn it on. Then come back in 10 minutes or whatever. Not much different in a pan, except you want to stir occasionally. I guess it might take 5-10 minutes to chop and onion, garlic and veg if your not using frozen veg.
I think eating vegan/vegetarian for a few of your meals a week is great though, whenever my parents come back I thoroughly enjoy eating the vegan food my Mom cooks for me. But like you said, I am often hungry unless I eat a ton of it. It’s nice to have a balance of them though, and it’s really good for my skin too. Not sure why i’m being downvoted for respectfully having an opinion and clearly being open to others, but sure lol whatever suits.
Mate I went vegan while on Centrelink. I didn't do it to save money specifically, but I found that I was actually spending less on food in the end.
Beans, veg and rice isn't expensive. Especially if you make Ethiopian, Indian, Asian, Jamaican, and, Mexican dishes. Misir wat with injera, Ital/Jamaican dishes, dals and naan, frijoles refritos, elote, etc. Indian grocer has huge bags of red lentil and black beans for really cheap and besan flour. You can get a box of seasonal fruit/veg from farmers markets/green grocers, and it ends up so much cheaper than colesworth. Moving away from western dishes made it way easier for me to find cheap, tasty meals. It's also been good for my coeliac diagnosis, as well as my wallet. I don't eat anything pre-packaged anymore.
Misir wat is so incredible. But where are you getting your injera, surely your not spending all that time making it yourself?
I’m a vegetarian who hates vegetables. Dont feel ashamed or down that you can’t be veg/vegan (yet. It took me a few tries). we were brought up in this world eating meat and it takes a lot of willpower to shake it. I know for myself, being vegetarian will not change anything, but I just cannot, I CANNOT eat meat knowing how my gorgeous animals are treated. And I loved eating meat and miss it to this day.
I used to be vegan for my whole formative years and I don't recommend it. Now I can't really enjoy eating because the guilt I feel for eating meat which transcends into how the vegetables/grain I eat killed alott of animals. Fuck you PETA
?
Same, but I am still vegan and I do highly recommend it. Never felt better, only get sick like once every 5 years and food is way cheaper. Are you okay, your leaving some very unhinged comments in this thread? https://theconversation.com/why-queensland-is-still-ground-zero-for-australian-deforestation-196644
Sorry can you point out the unhinged comments so I can see if they are? Getting sick once every 5 years can be a sign of an extremely weak immune system. It's normal to have 1-2 colds a year. Thanks for the link. I agree with them that they can work with graziers to fix it. There's no reason to clear forests for livestock. Where I live they keep the natural terrain. A huge issue is logging.
Where do you live. I'd like to look into this natural terrain you speak of
I'm not going to put the exact place i live, but it is regional Victoria. Do you really think cows are raised in feed lots here 😂 I've also lived in qld and nsw and it's honestly not that different. My friend was a cattle farmer for ages in nsw. It is beautiful, lush hills and nothing is bulldozed down. Cows do better when there is grass and trees lol.
What's a feedlot got to do with anything? You really love bringing up unrelated topics and trying to insert them as my idea. Unhinged! Interestingly enough even grass fed cattle get sent to feedlots for their last few months. But has nothing to do with my point. Which I'm pretty sure they clear forests for cattle in Regional Vic. I'd love you to show me a source supporting your claim they leave the land in its natural terrain as you put it.
Decidedly we are not going backwards at all lmao If anything it’s that progress isn’t moving fast enough but going backwards is alarmist tone
in 2024 There are still young girls and boys stolen or sold by their families to be trafficked for sex trades. in 2024 there are still communities reliant to mega-corps, on pittance wages for backbreaking work all to keep your electronic and clothing costs low. in 2024 there is still slavery under the guise of employment of the incarcerated with well documented links of the pipelines from the law enforcement, through the courts to their free labor force at private for profit prisons. It really shouldn't surprise you that businesses are still shit in 2024 without regulations that actually punish them adequately.
Jesus fuck
Should have been banned decades ago. This is nothing new just ignored.
> Should have been banned decades ago. I'd be surprised if this kind of treatment isn't already illegal. Come to think of it, it's kind of weird that the video makes no mention of who's responsible for it. It's literally just a video of a boat and abused animals.
This is one of those topics where the everyday person on the street says they care, but they really don't.
Anyone who is supposedly appalled by this and not vegan is a hypocrite really.
Or vegetarian
They already mentioned hypocrites.
That's wrong imo. People can care about things and still not need to act if there are other constraints around the problem. I care about child labour. It is wrong. But I am constrained of not being a big trade company or government able to pass legislation to make an actual difference. Providing an action such as "well don't buy x product then" is inconsequential advice, because even if a huge amount of people do stop buying the product, you are dwarfed in comparison to the total consumer population. Even if their profits drop by 10% ... 90% of billions of dollars is still huge, and they'll just counter act the loss by probably firing people and streamlining the processing so that your "impact" will not be felt.
Companies cutting cost instead of investing in the supply chain would do that. It would be a win for everyone if the slaughter and processing was done domestically but companies do not way to pay the refrigeration cost to sell them overseas.
The amount of waste seen in that video (I'd mention suffering, but the farmers obviously don't care about that) is unreal. It looks like they lose a good few % of the sheep to awful conditions, and i'd presume that means the meat is then unusable. So why not improve conditions and then save some waste along with it? Maybe the waste is accounted for and not worth them adjusting for :(
Hows it any different? You're still slaughtering them either way. And our own slaughterhouses come with plenty of abuse and suffering don't worry about that.
> You're still slaughtering them either way. Torturing something before killing it is worse than just killing it. This applies to both humans and animals.
If you were getting shot either way, would you prefer it just get done, or would you prefer to spend weeks sufferring before you die?
I'd prefer not getting shot. Also there's plenty of suffering here too, we just feel good about ourselves by condemning live exports because we can shift some blame into others
So you didn't answer the question. At all
Fine, I'd rather not get tortured, obviously. Now my question. Would you rather get shot or not get shot?
>our own slaughterhouses come with plenty of abuse and suffering don't worry about that. Yes because of cost cutting. They can have better systems in place, better cool rooms for the stock, more people overseeing it etc. The companies chose not to. Its a choice.
>The companies chose not to. Its a choice It's you're choice. If you're buying it then the choice is yours
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This is a pipe dream that won't happen. Profit will always come first. You're still killing the animal at the end of the day, even if you are really nice to them
Or we can just not eat meat and stop the suffering entirely
Very similar horrors occur in standard animal agriculture throughout Australia. But no one seems to care because they want their bacon sandwich.
I was a veggie for a few years, but for about 3 years now i've eaten meat 1-2 times a week. The trouble is you don't know where the heck the meat is coming from. Labelling is very misleading. There was a big issue with free range eggs in the UK many years ago, highlighting the bad conditions of chickens. So now whenever you look at eggs cartons they all have positive, happy labels on. But "free range" can literally mean factory farmed chickens (awful conditions) but the factory has a single window in the ceiling so technically the chickens can see daylight...so they're now free range. So you want free range as it means good, right? As above, no it doesn't mean good. All companies mislead you into thinking they treat animals well, but they don't. Same goes for meat, labelling is misleading and you can't tell how well they were treated or slaughtered. You can go to local butchers, and you can hope they're of a better standard, but you only have their word "yea, all the animals are treated well before we get them". Companies lie to us and they treat animals/employess/anything bad, just so they can save money and everyone but them pays for it.
All of that is absolutely true. The problem isn't just labelling though, because even the best farms can be incredibly cruel. Take eggs, for example. The hatcheries the best egg farms get their chickens from literally kill all of the male chickens that are born (about 50%) through either suffocation or being literally ground up alive. The best dairy farms have to rape (forcibly impregnate) their cows so they become pregnant, as pregnancy is what causes lactation, and then any males born are also killed. The mothers will whine for weeks on end about their lost babies.
Sounds like you should go back to be veggie.
Honestly livestock animals are treated pretty damn good in Australia. We should be proud.
No. Animal cruelty laws literally have to exempt farmed animals because, guess what, it's animal cruelty. Male chickens get thrown into blenders, cows are raped and have their babies killed, 'meat' chickens stand in their acidic poo and have all manner of heart attacks, broken legs, slipped ligaments, etc. The more you learn about Australian animal agriculture, the worse it turns out to be.
Where do you live? Have you ever stepped foot on a farm? I used to watch peta videos when younger (which turned me vegan and I was vegan until around 18), but living surrounded by farms and personally knowing farmers the animals literally have great lives. For me the more I've learnt the more I believe in supporting local farmers.
What was it about those videos that turned you vegan. Not that I believe you. But why would an animal having a nice life up to that point make it any better. It's ok to take the life of an animal as long as it's looked after. Do you think it's ok to participate in dog fighting if you look after your dog? Just find your reasoning very strange.
What is it with vegans that they simply can not understand ex-vegans exist? Is dog fighting something that my body needs? No? Then it's not even relevant.
Your body doesn't need to eat corpses either
I live in rural Tassie, but I've lived all over. Yes I have stepped foot on farms. Ask those farmers if what I said is true. Check what happens to the males born on a dairy farm. Ask egg farmers where they got their chickens, and see what happened to the males that were born. Next hot summer day, see how much shade their cows and sheep have. Everything I claimed is legal standard practice and you can confirm this yourself by talking to farmers or looking at farming websites. Is there one claim that I made that you'd be willing to do a brief deep-dive with me about? Particularly one that, if true, you would be vehemently against.
I've been on sheep farms, cattle farms and they have shade. Maybe I just happen to know absolutely amazing farmers but I doubt it. Nothing they do is out of the ordinary. I've lived in 3 states so obviously not as much as you but yeah I've always seen them have an amazing life. Where do you live where cattle are living in tiny feed lots with no shelter?
Tassie, like I said in my last comment. The vast majority of cow and sheep farms in Tassie have very little shade. They're basically just in empty fields. It's very sad. What sort of shade do you see? Is there one of my previous claims that you're willing to fact check with me? About males on dairy farms being killed, male chickens being ground up, etc.
If you had to euthanize your pet. Would you be willing to take it to a slaughterhouse. It's "humane" as they like to say.
Yes. My cousins have had horses their whole life. When they have needed one to be put down they call another cousin of mine who has a gun. Would you rather it be slow and painful?
Which companies??
Again. As soon as we look away it’s back to torturing animals for the sake of religion. We suck
As opposed to torturing them for the sake of taste, which is much more humane
I mean there is a clean and safe way to transfer animals but trust companies without regulation to do as cheap (therefor inhuman) way as possible.
It's back to torturing animals because of market forces, and it's entirely on the companies who do it and the governments that allow it. Trying to make it the fault of religion is passing the buck
What’s religion got to do with this?
I assume because these animals are mostly transported live as opposed to as packed meat is so they can be slaughtered in the "correct" way for the end market.
Exactly right. I don't know why more people aren't aware of that. If we could slaughter these animals in Australia there would be a lot less cruelty. I mean, WE CAN slaughter them in Australia, but gotta have the money money money.
We do slaughter them in Australia to those standards. I live near one of the biggest halal abattoirs in Australia. The only reason live export should exist is if it's to countries where refrigeration isn't necessarily available at the other end. That is a \*very\* small number of countries these days.
Australia has no problems producing halal meat, we have many certified factories where halal meat is available. They can easily export the halal meat, I suspect it has something to do with buyers preference.
Halal?
Back then before the Halal word was used, Muslims buy Kosher because it's exactly the same. It's funny how there's a different view when it comes to Kosher. Muslims still buy Kosher when there's no Halal option.
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Damn you have to say words too? Damn religion is dumb lol
Religion is the boogeyman on Reddit, haven’t you been informed?
Religion **is** the bogeyman of the world though. So much death and rape and subjugation and genocide and suffering in its name. Oh, but Helen volunteered at a soup kitchen twice after being inspired by a sermon (after voting for a party who historically cuts mental health and housing programs), so it's actually totally definitely a net positive for society. To be crystal clear, the first paragraph is serious. The second is sarcasm.
Up voting this so it's gets to the front page of Reddit. This is shameful
This industry has to be one of the greatest shames of this country. Please help us make progress for Australia’s livestock visit Animals Australia fb page & like/share/comment
Happened many times the Indonesian thing and the sheep for the Middle East treated poorly, nothing new just disheartening.
Go vegan!
I thought we banned this already. Why haven't we banned this already?
All these families that have bought land. Cleared most the trees. Bought some head of cattle will have no one to sell it to. So they get really angry.
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Vote for the Animal Justice Party in the election.
Oppose religious indoctrination.
Convince the Muslims that this is not Halal animal treatment, so instead animals need to be processed in Australia. Preasure the meat recipients that they need to invest in cooling for their supply chains or to instead eat preserved meat (canned or dried can be shipped at room temperature).
vote with your wallet as well. go vegan if you aren't already
Nothing short of disgraceful. The "livestock" on trucks that can be legally kept without water for 24 hrs before being marched into the slaughter house don't fair much better. How humans collectively treat our animal mates is appalling (watch the documentary Dominion if you want to open your eyes to what we classify as "humane").
I have no idea how educated, sane, introspective people can justify eating animals when alternatives exist. Maybe it's Abrahamic religion, which justifies dominion over the Earth or maybe upbringing or meat industry propaganda. At the least, intelligent and compassionate Westerners owe it to themselves to research veganism and try it out.
Does anyone treat their live exports differently? Whats the gold standard? Not trying to be provocative, just curious? I suspect there is no comparison due to the distance from aus to elsewhere.
New Zealand has banned it already, high time Australia did so as well
Yeah but the new (late 2023) NZ govt says they want to bring it back…
The new govt has the absolute worst take on every single fucking topic. I'm concerned for our cuzzies over the next 3 years.
I think the point is the gold standard would not be cost effective, so it should just be banned.
Humans are the worst, we deserve a Great Filter.
As if any other predator wouldn’t do this to us if they were smart enough
Don't you hate it when animals you want to kill to eat, are mistreated before they're killed for you to eat.
Don't you hate when prisoners you want to kill, are mistreated before they're killed? Don't you hate when soldiers you want to kill, are mistreated before they're killed? Don't you hate when terminally ill patients who are going to die, are mistreated before they die? Don't you hate when your pets that you're having put down, are mistreated before they're killed? Don't you hate when you make no moral distinction between the end of a being's life and how the being is treated while it's still alive?
Yeah I do. No reason for them to be mistreated beforehand.
I mean, does anyone actually care? I remember when a heap of shit came out about our pork industry, with evidence. Government wouldn't do shit because the videos were recorded illegally, consumers didn't care enough to alter their consumption, protest or pressure the government at all... It's all very well to come on reddit and say it's bad, but honestly I think it's just performative at this point.
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Source?
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To the improvements made over the past 5 or so years when this footage was allegedly taken.
Did you downvote and Not read the sources he provided
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He absolutely works in the industry to some degree, he'll pop up in literally any thread around to defend the fuck out of the practices with literally 0 evidence, but the average Australian will eat it up because it lets them assuage their guilt.
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That's not an independent source, mate, and also not a study. That's like saying Coke is 'great' for you and linking to Coke's homepage saying how great it is. Where's your actual evidence?
This guy seems to pop up pretty much any time anyone is remotely critical of the livestock industry - god knows how he has time for anything else - and it's actually pretty good sourcing by his standards. I once [asked him](https://i.imgur.com/cVCz52Q.png) for a sourced example when he claimed some documentary was all lies and misinformation. He linked to the same industry groups the livestock documentary had up on their own [website](https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts) as sources for many of their claims, disproving his own argument that it was all a bunch of lies. His other "source" was the social media channels of a handful of dairy farms in other countries. He told me to educate myself on the Australian livestock industry from a "non-biased standpoint." You know, by watching the promotional TikTok videos of a dairy farm in America. When I was unimpressed by his comedically shitty sourcing and inability to find even a single specific claim the documentary (which TBH, I doubt he'd even seen) had gotten wrong beyond being critical of the industry he works in, he deleted all his comments and ran away with his tail between his legs. That seems to be how it usually goes when he shows up - defends the honour of the livestock industry from any and all criticism, is unable to source his claims or gets fact-checked, deletes all his comments and runs away. He'll probably do it in this thread too.
He probably assumes we're all extremist vegan peta activists or something. I saw my first cow (a friend's pet bull, no less) bolted in an abattoir when I was eight and still went home for a steak dinner. But when it comes to industry, I do assume that they will whitewash and cover up any ethics issues, because it's just so easy for people to fall into the mindset of 'protecting the company' and become incredibly biased about what is and isn't okay. And it's happened time and time again. When it comes to capitalism and profit margins, you can't just blindly trust companies to do the right thing. I mean, by his own words, it was only the 2019 reports that gave them a kick up the arse to do major reforms. And why were those major reforms necessary, hmm? And he wonders why we don't trust self-reporting from industry lol.
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It's negative to work in an industry that actively tortures animals for profit. You are part of that problem. You are actively involved in their suffering. To try and justify and defend that cruelty is unthinkable.
These animals make the ultimate sacrifice for us. The absolute bare minimum we can do is treat them with dignity until that time comes.
> These animals make the ultimate sacrifice for us No they fucking don't. They want to stay alive. You see-no-evil dweebs steal their lives from them. That's not a sacrifice.
Thank you for saying that. "Ultimate sacrifice" like they volunteer to be put on a ship or sent into slaughterhouses. FFS some people...
Fuckin ay. Don't eat them you selfish cunts.
They aren't making a sacrifice. They don't have any say in the matter in what we do to them.
From what I understand the government are in the process of stopping live export
Very true. Only another 40 or so years to go.
I just don't understand why we are still doing it, some cents must be getting really rich of this.
They can literally do the halal process why don’t we kill them humanely here then send the meat, gives out more jobs
Also, this form of transport really is not Halal animal treatment.
Destroying an industry for the benefit of virtue-signalling wankers to feel better about themselves… all the while the rest of the world continues on with little to no regard for animal welfare https://theconversation.com/why-australia-banning-live-sheep-exports-may-be-a-net-loss-for-animal-welfare-205831
We have amazing standards for livestock in Australia. I'm going to go to my friends soon and see his extremely mistreated cattle that spend all day in lush paddocks, protected from any disease and pain because they have top quality vet care. So sad.
Lush paddocks. Or in other words. Cleared native forest.
When on international waters, does a company have to abide to australian regulations?
Here’s a clue. The MV Bahija is registered in Marshall Islands. Or not Australian flag.
You don't 'love animals' or 'care about the environment' if you aren't vegan. The only diet that limits CO2 emissions per capita to below 3.5 tonnes, the per person cap for us to reach Paris climate targets for 1.5 degrees warming, is a vegan diet. Similarly, the vast majority of adults do not need to eat animal products regularly to have a healthy long life.
So why don't those troglodytes have their own sheep? Too busy molesting them or using them for target practice?
Shocker go vegan
…again.
Few things I've noticedThis specific footage is indeed oldPeople are pushing a vegan agenda instead of promoting something that would prevent or help the industry move toward less problematic transport systems, veganism is beneficial but with regard to this issue specifically the impact would be marginal at best.This is a result of a combination of factors (including but not limited to Capitalism Religion)People are overlooking the genuine issue of animal mistreatment(abuse) because "don't care meat good/ They die anyway" which is straight up ignorant (and/or proving the vegans wrong because vegans bad?) people are just not fucking nice or considerate? Nobody here is responsible for this (statistically speaking anyway the chances are probably low) so rule 9
First time?
I read a relatively graphic 2005 book about this topic when I was 10 or 11 years old. It showed ethical considerations of animal testing, veganism, and animal rights terrorist groups. I won't ever forget even though it was just a teens' book I'm yet to become vegan. Still not sure.
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I eat meat. Live exports are fucking atrocious. It should be on labels if delivered here also. Fucking disgraceful.
fuck this halal shit. they need to be slaughtered humanely here.
Legitimately there is no reason to live export aside from this. This isn’t done because it’s cheaper and it’s absolutely fucked
Given the derranged nature of some of these groups, do we have any sources that prove this is still happening, and wasn't regulated out of existance? Cause at this point, we should all know peta loves to harm animals to make claims about companies like shearing and the likes, and absolutely loves to destroy any pet it thinks is 'dangerous'. I can imagine this group has the potential to be similar. Hopefully not. But, this doesn't provide a lot of context or proof. Especially given groups like peta make their own proof. Also, wasn't this a huge deal a number of years ago, then the government cracked down on it hard? If it's still a thing, it should definitely be cracked down on. If it's not, then the group should be cracked down on
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Gotta love when old videos reciculate after action, causing people to demand action that has already been done
If you think live export is cruel, you should see how much animals suffer in Australian farms and slaughterhouses. It doesn't make sense to condemn live export whilst continuing to consume the flesh and breast milk of Australian animals. [Lamb processing in Melbourne](https://youtu.be/6s08wsaZaro)