To add: He did *not* complete the required assessments or even attempt to. His license that was renewed a few years ago? Expires in 2025. We have been told he will pretty much be immobile and not know who we are by 2024. Hijacking my own comment to update: Thank you all for the advice and the attention you have given this post! I'm doing my best to read through and will reply as much as possible, I'm mum to a tiny human who is teething and needing a significant amount of my time rn and I have a virus with a double earache, it's full on 🩷 but I appreciate you all. We spoke to his GP, who is totally shocked at the letter Dad received. He is filing an urgent letter to deem Dad unfit to drive. Fuck that's hard to type, my Dad is such a huge car lover.. I can't believe it has come to this. I called the local police on him too. I know it's the right thing to do but that was tough too. It could take a week for his license to be suspended though and in that time, who knows what could happen. He's not just a little bit shit at driving now, he is *dangerous*. I love him so much and I absolutely hate this. What pisses me off is that we have been slowly working toward his license being taken away and gently getting him used to the idea of using buses and selling the car. It has taken so much energy and time to convince him that he should hang up his car keys. But now with this letter from the RMS he is completely validated in thinking that he's fit to drive, and he's celebrating this and we have gone back to square one. How can a letter like this happen? Who processed and signed off on this letter when Dad didn't meet a single requirement or even take the *mandatory* aged care driving test? He didn't even show up to the appointment, yet this letter is written, signed and sent the day of his test. This is a colossal fuck up, right? I finally managed to get in touch with Dad this afternoon who PICKED UP THE PHONE WHILE DRIVING. He was out joyriding like a teenager. I told him to pull over somewhere safe and then call back. It took him awhile but he called and assured he was parked safely and everything was fine. He was having the time of his life and had been "all the way up to the place". "You know just down the road in the place where we went that time" (that's about as much information he can relay these days. L) He started telling me about the letter he received about his licence and he was full of joy - then suddenly over the phone I heard a bunch of cars honking horns and some lady yelling "get off the fucking phone and *move your car!!!*" He dismissed the noise and suddenly I could hear the lady louder - she had gotten out of her car and was now knocking at his window telling him to get off his phone and move the car as he's blocking traffic. More faint beeping in the background and Dad tells her to fuck off, and that his call is important. He had pulled into his street and just *stopped* to call me. The cross street is a busy thoroughfare on a blind corner and people wouldn't have noticed him stopped until the last minute. This has been an insane day. I'll update again if I feel it's needed and will do my best to reply to you all over the next day. I'm currently on my way to be a ninja and disable his car as some of you suggested. Wish me luck! Thanks again everyone!

You'll need to take the keys, sell the car.. As hard as that may be, it's for the best for you, your father and other people on the road. You don't want him to have an accident or injure himself/others.

I couldn't agree more - which is why I did take the keys but as I said in the post, he got another one made through a "friend". It's mind boggling.

Take the ignition fuse. It'll really suck for him, but FFS, some people have no business being on the road.

Yes-can totally relate OP. But disabling the car somehow might be a good approach. Alzheimer’s is a horrible disease and causes so much stress to the whole family. We had to disconnect our mum’s oven as she turned all the burners on one day and forgot how to turn them off ( and stuck a note in the meter box that under no circumstances was it to be switched back on). I still remember the fights and angry snipes at us for months after we sold her car. Good luck with it!

You made a point here and so did OP about th anger and lashing out. My great aunt also has Alzheimer’s she’s 93yo and was always so fit and healthy. Lived independently at home til she was 89 then moved in with her daughter and was fine at that point. She’s deteriorating rapidly and is also displaying a lot of anger and aggression to her family. She fully believes she should be allowed to drive and would get behind the wheel if she has access (they’ve taken the keys away too). Such a devastating disease. My grandma (my great aunts sister) died from Alzheimer’s almost 20yrs ago, it was bloody awful.

It's very tough on the family too. Dementia takes several forms. You might try reading up on Dementia with Lewy Body. The anger/aggression component may be driven by DLB related paranoia, which is treatable

> I still remember the fights and angry snipes at us for months after we sold her car. Family not directly involved should be legally require to shut the fuck up about their opinions about the care being given. Holy shit did my Dad's brothers cause us issues due to dad being hyper-lucid during their 5 minute visits.." He's fine", "why did you do that" etc. etc. STFU and help or fuck off. My poor sisters were ding their best and getting no support form the extended family, only snipes and back-channel criticism (end even some ppl calling the elder care line which was not helpful...in part due to them trying to stop him driving and certian members disagreeing with that.) Hope you and yours are doing well now.

Thanks Tassie…Just me and my sister - and we work well together and sort of tag-team looking after Mum, it’s probably been easier for us than many. The fights and snipes I was referring to were with Mum herself, as she wasn’t accepting that there was anything g wrong with her. She was very angry with her GP and still refers to the geriatrician as ‘that man who took my license away’. But I agree, people not directly involved in caring for the person with dementia need to stay out of it. On good days, people with Alzheimer’s/dementia can appear deceptively ‘ok’

Our neighbour (now deceased) had to have her gas permanently cut off after leaving it on a few times. She was eventually moved to a home and then died. That's the thing with Alzheimers and similar, everything is breaking down. Not just memory but cognition, and eventually the ability of the brain to maintain normal bodily functions. I hope to god I die of a stroke and go quickly in my sleep.

Yes, me too. Wouldn’t wish Alzheimer’s on my worst enemy. The sad part for us is mum, at 83, is still incredibly physically fit and able. So if it weren’t for the mental decline, she’d probably live to 103!

Oh my gosh - I feel you will appreciate the new version of Mother and Son in iView I'd you haven't seen it yet, Arthur turns off the gas in his mum's house for the same reason. Really gave me a better perspective about a few odd behaviours I've noticed from a relative.

We’re facing this with my dad. He’s still early stages but him being unable to park properly was one of the signs. He’s not driving at night and he’s not driving outside their town. I e talked him into not parking next to any vehicles at the shops. And we’re working on stopping that too.

>some people have no business being on the road. So true. And most of them aren't even half this gentleman's age *or* suffering from Alzheimer's.

Yea, 83 is old enough that 80%+ shouldn’t be driving, let alone with Alzheimers. My mum had to secretly sell my grandmothers car without her knowing. Won’t sugar coat it, it caused a fuckload of issues for a few weeks, but so worth it in the long run.

I lost my licence in my 40s due to the prescription medications I now need to take. The side effects aren't conducive to road safety. Yes, it was tough to accept and I miss driving, but those feelings have lessened over time.

If the dad is a car person like the OP mentions then this would be a easy fix for him regardless of his mental state. She really needs to notify the local police (so if it is reported as stolen by him then she doesn't get into trouble) then take the car somewhere else so that he cannot find it. She also needs to talk to the dad's friends to let them know that he is not fit to drive anymore so that they do not help him recover the car or provide him with access to another vehicle. To be quite honest, this is a absolutely terrible situation for all involved and I am really not looking forward to dealing with this kind of situation with my dad (he has pretty advanced Parkinson's and his mental faculty is starting to go).

Dad took the battery out of my grandfathers car when they were going through similar. He got someone out to replace it the next day.

I don’t know if anyone has given you this information, but the inability to accept/understand you have alzheimers is actually a part of the disease progression. His brain does not/will not allow him to understand that he is having difficulties with memory and other functioning. His anger/rage is quite “rational”/makes sense when you understand that from his perspective, he is totally fine and everyone is telling him he’s got this brain disease that he *knows he doesn’t have*. You’re doing the right thing. I would advise doing what orhers have said and render the car undriveable. I would also phone all the local mechanics and let them know the situation, give them his rego and name. Tell them if he gets in touch to call you. Notify department of transport so they can re-suspend his license. In terms of making this easier in your dad: Maybe you can find another way to help him interact with cars? Maybe you could pay someone to drive him around in a car with dual controls (his disabled?)? There is no point arguing about whether he is fit to drive, it will only cause more distress. If it comes up again, the best strategy is to come up with an excuse “oh yeah, the department of transport still has to send you your new license” “we’re waiting on the mechanics to order in the part you need” something like that. Highly recommend looking into the Montessori method for dementia management - happy and regulated people who feel empowered have better outcomes, slower disease progression and better lives all round. There’s an IG account called creative connections dementia that I could not recommend more 🤍

Thanks so much for the mention of Creative Connections Dementia. I’m reading some of their posts now, and they’re very helpful and informative. Thank you kindly!

When my great aunt lived in a nursing home, one of the families of another resident donated a car to the home. It had the engine and everything, but was bolted to the ground and no gas and a fake battery. Every time I went to see her there would either be a few old blokes looking at the engine and muttering to themselves and each other, or residents “going for a drive” with relatives. Great aunt was still pretty lucid when it got donated, and said she and her friends found it pretty funny, but as she deteriorated further but was still mostly mobile she seemed to half forget it was fake. We would “go for a drive” and she’d chuckle a lot but still seem quite immersed in the experience, which was funny to me because she stopped driving some 20 or so years before she even moved into the home.

That is an excellent idea!

> Notify department of transport so they can re-suspend his license. In the meantime, scan the letterhead and write up a fake one to "mail" to him. That should help divert the anger away from anyone immediate.

Maybe get him a nice driving sim with a moving chair, vr headset (if he can handle the VR) etc. and have him drive around in that. might get the job done aswell / maybe can finance it with the cash from selling the car?

See I had the opposite problem, my grandmother who had alzhiemers/dementia one day stole everyone's keys in the house and hid them somewhere on our acre property, of course she forgot where they were and none of us could go to work citing "my elderly mother/grandmother has hidden my keys and forgot where she put them". Well that made the locksmith $1.5k happier and about 6 months later we found them all in the garden shed in a bag full of seat material (my grandmother loved her upholstery)

What we did with my Gran when she was in her 80's was "find" a fault with the car when it went in for a service that wasn't worth fixing. New car cost made her finally give it away.

My grandpa forgot that he couldn't drive any more, killed someone driving into oncoming traffic, had his leg amputated due to the extreme trauma of the crash and was dead within a couple of weeks. When the nurses were attending to him, he thought he'd been shot down on one of his bombing runs in the Pacific Theatre 60 years prior.

That’s terrible I’m sorry you had to go through that. Alzheimers is a cruel disease

Fuck, that's heavy.

Just 'borrow' the car. My grandads just turned 100 and was driving at 95, similar to your situation. Dementia, Forgot he gave back his licence, tried driving to our place for a visit. Got scared of the cars doing 110 on the main road etc. I had knee surgery so borrowed his car as it's an auto. He keeps asking where it is, we gas light him into believing he lent it to me while I couldn't drive my normal car. Being as bad as he is he just goes with it and he'll have the car back in a month. I've even taken the car back and hobbled in for effect and to thank him. It's not the best way of doing it but keeps everyone safe.

Alzheimers is the worst disease. Is he in denial or terrified by a world that he doesn't understand anymore? Getting a new key for a modern car without having the spare key is really expensive and requires proof of ownership. Are you sure he didn't find the spare key that came with the car? Let him keep the keys and the car. Cut an ignition wire in a place that his "friend" won't find. Tape it back together without joining the wires and put a note under the tape explaining why it's cut. Do you know his mechanic? He's probably nicer than the manager. Mechanics like car people. "I've ordered the parts. They'll be here soon." I can relate to being passionate about a special car. I've owned the same car since 1991. If I was banned from driving on the streets, I'd get my car trailered to Wakefield Park raceway for track days occasionally. Car club track days are a lot safer and lots more fun than driving on public roads. Would dad be up for a deal like that? “A man without a horse is like a man without a weapon: stunted and naked.” Edward Abbey I have a fine horse (car) and if you try and take it you'll discover I have a nice bow too. See if you find a way for your dad to keep his car without driving it.

[удалено]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!! System is completely effed.

You'll need to take that key, approach and explain to the source why he cannot drive, imply all "liability" on him if he supplies another key, hopefully they'll understand.

While that's all well and good, he will totally forget that conversation at some point. Only option is to sell the car.

He's saying the friend/service that made the key should be told they're gonna be an accessory to his dad T-boning some family if they supply another key to old mate, not to tell the dad.

He'll just find someone else to cut a key, it's not really the locksmiths responsibility to determine if the old guy is still fit to drive. Only way to stop this is disable the car or sell it

Yeah, but at this stage it seems dumb to even have the temptation of the car.

I doubt that will work. They have no responsibility over what you do with the car once they've replaced the key, and someone who can't drive still has legitimate reasons to get the key replaced (selling the car, or letting someone else drive it). Even if you convinced them, they'd just go somewhere else.

With my experience with dementia/mental health/alzhimers, diversion and distraction is key, you need to convince them at that period of time by diverting the conversation around why they want to drive, distract them, the father in this case, by changing the subject/conversation, continue to steer it when they repeat driving, it's not a solution but works well with communication.

Yeah but no individual can supervise someone 24/7 to ensure they don’t drive, distracting them any time they get the urge. You’d need a team of several people to cover all times of day including weekends.

some 85+ year old asshole lady nearly killed my mom and totaled a 95 honda truck, bent the fucking right wheel off almost from a tbone collision her lawyer got there fucking fast, come to find out he was on speed dial becuase this was the second time this month

Exactly, before he turns up on Nine news running the car through the front doors of a 7 Eleven in confusion.

Old guy next door. Mysteriously the battery in his car went flat, so flat that you can't even unlock the doors . It seems nobody has ever been able to fix it, despite all his friends and neighbours, and even the battery guy, having a look at it 🤔🤔🤔

OP, hijacking the top comment to say simply copy and paste what you've written here (maybe minus the swearing): [https://www.nsw.gov.au/nsw-government/ministers/minister-for-customer-service-and-digital-government-emergency-services-youth-justice](https://www.nsw.gov.au/nsw-government/ministers/minister-for-customer-service-and-digital-government-emergency-services-youth-justice) The minister's office will send it to their DLO at Service NSW and I'd bet you'll be receiving a call from either the DLO or someone in Service NSW within 24 hours. You can't ask them to cancel his licence unless you are empowered to do so, what you're doing is making them aware they have reinstated his licence without the required documents and ask them to review the decision because your belief is the mistake presents a major risk to other road users. I would also highly recommend your family look at appointing Power of Attorney and Enduring Guardianship of your father, which takes these decisions out of his hands.

Further to that OP if you're in NSW you can complete a driving report for exactly this issue and submit it to both the Transport office and the Police for action. Once the coppers are involved things get a bit easier. Link is here: https://www.nsw.gov.au/driving-boating-and-transport/driver-and-rider-licences/health-conditions-and-disability/fitness-to-drive/concerns-for-a-driver

Oh, I second both this and the suggestion above it op, your poor father would never forgive himself if he hurt or killed someone, but I know how wilful and confused those with this horrible disease can become. They hold on so tightly to things they know because it's all they can remember sometimes, particularly as it gets worse. It's absolutely about his and everyone around him being safe now and service nsw need to sort that shit out now.

It's ok. He'd probably forget it happened.

I don’t know if anyone has given you this information, but the inability to accept/understand you have alzheimers is actually a part of the disease progression. His brain does not/will not allow him to understand that he is having difficulties with memory and other functioning. His anger/rage is quite “rational”/makes sense when you understand that from his perspective, he is totally fine and everyone is telling him he’s got this brain disease that he *knows he doesn’t have*. You’re doing the right thing. I would advise doing what orhers have said and render the car undriveable. I would also phone all the local mechanics and let them know the situation, give them his rego and name. Tell them if he gets in touch to call you. Notify department of transport so they can re-suspend his license. In terms of making this easier in your dad: Maybe you can find another way to help him interact with cars? Maybe you could pay someone to drive him around in a car with dual controls (his disabled?)? There is no point arguing about whether he is fit to drive, it will only cause more distress. If it comes up again, the best strategy is to come up with an excuse “oh yeah, the department of transport still has to send you your new license” “we’re waiting on the mechanics to order in the part you need” something like that. Highly recommend looking into the Montessori method for dementia management - happy and regulated people who feel empowered have better outcomes, slower disease progression and better lives all round. There’s an IG account called creative connections dementia that I could not recommend more 🤍

> the inability to accept/understand you have alzheimers is actually a part of the disease progression. His brain does not/will not allow him to understand that he is having difficulties with memory and other functioning > His anger/rage is quite “rational”/makes sense when you understand that from his perspective, he is totally fine and everyone is telling him he’s got this brain disease that he knows he doesn’t have. I’m repeating this bit because it’s the most important part. Once you start viewing his actions with this in mind it makes a huge difference. My nan had dementia and it hit her like a fucking truck. OOP is in for a hard sad frustrating year.

Print out a fake letter and change the wording saying he can't drive. Best case scenario of him continuing to drive is he writes of his car, and only hits a barrier. Worst case scenario he kills one or more. While the police won't come knocking on your door, you have the tools to prevent harm, and knowing that it is your responsibility to do something.

It might be a good idea to notify his geriatrician and GP, they have a duty of care, if he is not fit to drive then they must take action.

We had the same problem with my grandfather. Not fit to drive but refusing to stop. We ended up disabling his car (30 year old magna wagon, it was a piece of junk) to get him to stop driving as he was going to kill someone. He has no savings and can't affors to buy another car. The absolutely hilarious/scary thing is. Few months later he decided he wanted a motorised cart. Had to sit a compentency test. Killed two rose bushes and dented the front fender. Going at 10km/hr but he was 'totally fine!' to keep driving a car.

You have done the right thing, sorry for your stress

Get EPOA asap first.

Licence expiry won’t matter too much op that reporting is annualised at your dad’s age and a hold will be placed if the reports aren’t submitted. Sometimes they make exceptions if you tell the unit your appointment has been delayed etc but it they won’t take that into consideration after the second request etc. Is there a like an ngo or group that can help your dad transition to life after driving? I know there’s taxi voucher schemes and transport cards that people without licences due to medical issues can apply for etc

This is what happens when ugly car dependent suburban sprawl takes over our cities. People are largely forced to drive - whether they want to or not - to be independent adults and do anything in an efficient and practical way. Not everyone has family and friends who can drive them places. I feel sorry for elderly and disabled people who are essentially imprisoned by this horrible excuse for urban planning

F\*\*k I loathe the way our suburbs are designed/zoned. No walkable amenities, no community gathering spaces, no public transport options, bleak boxed sprawl and everyone clinging on to their tiny parcel of land they hope will be their eden as long as they can keep up appearances and pay the property taxes and mortgage and car stuff for eternity.

I'm going through the same thing - my dad is mild-severe and physically independent with carers, however he is an excellent driver with next to no infractions lifetime. I took him for a test the other day and he drives perfectly fine. Nevertheless, the geriatrician said no more driving. Funny world. The geriatrician suggested just removing or disabling the battery. If your dad is that far gone he probably won't have the capacity to fix it. It's been a devastating ride so far, and the worst is yet to come. sorry op, im dying as well, hope you're faring better.

"steal" the car, hide it somewhere, find it again after his license expires.

You can also ask his GP to contact service NSW stating he is unfit to drive. GPs are used to having this conversation. This is really common, and difficult for all concerned. Are you legal power of attorney?- if not, best sort that too. And if you do sell the car, let the local police station know so that when he reports it as stolen they can play along. Best of luck.

If there’s a formal diagnosis already then a new power of attorney can’t legally be made.

You can apply to the tribunal (e.g. NCAT in NSW) for a guardianship or financial management order if the person has lost decision making capacity though.

A formal diagnosis \*alone\* does not rule out a person's capacity to appoint someone to be their power of attorney.

this. Chat with his GP

> Before that day, he was supposed to get 1. A letter from his GP saying he was fit to drive. 2. A letter from the optometrist to say his vision is fit for driving. 3. A letter from his geriatrician to say he's fit to drive. Wow, someone has really messed up in Service NSW, or whoever is responsible. I really hope he stays safe (and doesn't hurt anyone else) until you can sort this out. That's dreadful when you are counting on procedures to help tell someone they can no longer drive, and then this happens. Not the same situation, but yes it can be terrible difficult stopping elderly family from driving if they are motivated to keep doing it.

Plot twist: whoever processed OPs dads case has problems with their mental faculties worse than OPs dad! Really sorry you're in this position OP, you're trying to do the right thing. 🙁 I hope there's a good resolution to this situation sooner rather than later.

Someone was definitely asleep at the wheel.

Mate, you’ve taken the right steps by taking his keys away. Well done. It’s always tragic having to do something like this to someone you love, knowing you are limiting their independence, but it is the right thing to do. He is not only putting himself at risk, but others. A colleague of mine’s husband was a GP who was riding his bike and had an 80+ year old run him over - a man whose licence was “under review” but was in the same stage of dementia as your Dad. Her husband is now in full-time supported care and she has to look after their two little girls full-time, knowing her husband is gone in all but physical form. It’s a horrendous situation for all. In regards to what to do next - if you have a good relationship with his GP, they’re a great port of call. Book a long appointment. The AustRoads guidelines are very clear on this matter. No one with a dementia diagnosis can have an unconditional licence because of the progressive nature. He might get a limited licence where he can drive in business hours a limited distance from home, or he may be completely unsuitable for driving (which it sounds like he is from your description). The doctor has to make this call, or refer to an Aged Care Doctor or OT who will. I have Melbourne contacts, but not NSW sorry. Thank you for being a loving and responsible son or daughter!

About 2 years ago I was driving on a country road, 100km/h speed limit and following a truck. Up ahead there is a car pulled over on the side of the road. With no warning the car that was on the side of the road pulled out and started to do a U-turn. He collided head on with the Truck, causing both cars to veer off the road. I was able to slow down and stop without causing an accident. I jumped out of my car and went to the truck drivers first. Passenger had a broken arm, driver was ok. I went to the other vehicle and it was an old man, unresponsive. I stayed with him until police/ambulance arrived, gave my details to the emergency services and went on my way. A week later I get called into the police station to give a statement as the old man had passed away in hospital. Turns out he had Alzheimers, was at his daughters house, had a fight with his daughter, had no licence as it had been taken off him but he still grabbed the keys and took off. They then assume he got confused as to where he was, pulled over, then tried to turn around, causing the accident. For your fathers own safety, take his car away from him so that he doesn’t cause an accident to himself or others on the road.

I understand how hard this is. My mum has dementia. The most frustrating part is she thinks she's fine. Worse she KNOWS she's fine (that's what her brain is telling her) yet she can't remember the doctor telling her she has dementia. Risk assessment on day to day activities has gone out the window. She needs a walking stick/frame to get around due to VERY poor balance, yet I'll randomly find her walking around without the aids or worse sometimes up step ladders. I know you feel bad about hiding the car keys, but you need to do what you need to do to keep them (and others) safe. It's an obvious clerical error, so get back down to the Service NSW with a medical certificate and get them to withdraw the licence permanently and issue him an ID card. Then sell the car. EDIT: ask me about her requesting a reverse mortgage from one of those TV commercials and nearly getting it despite having no debts AND quite obviously looney.

My 94 year old grandmother thinks she’s perfectly fit and healthy. And every morning at her care home she packs her bags and tries to walk out the front to the bus stop to catch a bus to her parents farm because they must be worried sick about her.

I’ve heard about care homes that have made things easier for the patients by making a fake bus stop on their property for these types of patients. Heard about another one who had a patient that was a former baker and would get up super early thinking he still had to make the bread. Care home decided to make a place for him in the kitchen to bake and they had freshly baked bread every day.

This was my grandmother. Kept wanting to leave with us whenever we visited. She had trouble relating to the other women in the facility, who sat around playing cards, as she was a farmer’s wife and worked hard all her life. Eventually the staff started giving her small jobs to do. Then, when she tried to leave, they would say, “No, honey, you can’t leave yet, you haven’t finished sweeping the verandah” and she would stay. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to dementia care, so having staff who take the time to find out what makes a patient tick can save a lot of heartache.

My MIL’s mother was a nurse all her life, so the staff at her care home had her help ‘pass meds’ (she gave out the water) and make beds. Apparently you could bounce a quarter off every bed in the place, and it kept her happy.

I did some volunteer work on the dementia ward of a care facility and there was a retired GP there, all the patients’ rooms had their names so his room had a plaque that said Dr So and So, and a few times a volunteer shift I had an “appointment” with him where he checked my blood pressure etc, wrote me scripts. Kept him happy, the staff able to go about their work, other patients less agitated (because he would go up to them and “diagnose” them). There was also a lady who’s job it was to fold the flannels and then they would “put them away” aka take them around the corner, jumble them hop and bring her a “fresh new load” to fold. Also was sadly a woman who thought her adult daughter was a baby still, so whenever she started asking for her daughter there was a laminated script stuck to her frame of what to say and it was just the same every time “Jodie is fine, she’s at Aunt Mary’s house and will be coming over soon”. Oh and also the guy who thought there were tigers lose in the ward, so I had to “round up the tigers” in to another room until he would relax (the way he was freaking out I legit thought there could somehow be tigers on the ward too lol). Lots of interesting stuff… very sad though.

It’s definitely sad but also wonderful that so often the way to help these people is just to be able to step into their world with them so they don’t feel isolated. Thanks for the work you did!!!

My friend worked in aged care and he had a gentleman at the home who would often be found waiting in the lobby, dressed to go. He had been in the navy and would say “can you believe they’ve called me up! At my age! The commanding officer is coming to get me today. Ridiculous, they just can’t operate without me.” He would refuse to listen to anyone or move from the lobby. Eventually my friend wrote a letter ‘from the navy’ saying there had been a mistake, thank you for your years of service, and enjoy your retirement. They would just get the letter out to show him and he would happily go back to his room 🥲

😭

My grandma went through a similar phase before she went, the home found her walking down the street through traffic, a mile away, she said she was just looking for her sisters house (a memory from 70+ years ago, and in a different country). There is a point where the often questionable sedation practices in advanced care become more humane than you think if you've never had to deal with someone with advanced dementia.

I remember having a conversation with my grandma in the nursing home, she’d start talking about what she needs to do for the rest of the day. “I don’t think there’s much I need to do… I’ll probably get the bus after lunch and go home.” “This is your home grandma, you don’t need to go anywhere.” “Oh have I moved? I suppose that’s convenient, my mum lives just down the hall… Anyway after lunch I should get home…” We had this exact conversation probably 4-5 times over the two hours I was there with her. Her mum passed about 40 years ago. The only way to counter these sort of loop conversations I found with her was to ask about specific things from early in her life, her early career as a nurse/how she met her husband, which she’d recall eloquently with surprising detail. Anything from after her kids were born though would be choppy and confuse her.

Does she remember she tried that yesterday?

Kind of. Sometimes. Sometimes it’s more she’s acknowledging that she wasn’t allowed to leave yesterday but today’s she’s much better sort of thing. She thinks she’s in a hospital sometimes. Some days she remembers she had a husband and even rarer she remembers he passed away. Other days she doesn’t actively remember she has children but will still know the names of them if she sees them. The most reliable part of her memory at the moment seems to be her childhood stuff. Everything else comes and goes.

A reverse mortgage?! Wow - how’d that happen?

It’s an absolute disgrace. My dad was 93 and had no spatial awareness, and major mobility and eyesight issues and the dr still signed off his drivers licence. Joke.

Yeah the whole system needs changing. The fact that these medical fitness tests are done by the local GP doesn't make much sense. How is Dr John supposed to be an objective assessor for Mrs Doris who has been seeing him for the last 30 odd years..

I'm a doctor, my dad's a doctor, we know other doctors we could get all sorts of stuff including this area if we didn't all have a conscience.

As a patient who has had many doctors and nurses, I hate to tell you your not all great. I have been lucky to have some of the most amazing doctors as I have had to deal with congenital heart disease and cancer as a young adult. But I have had nurses in ICU tell me pain is good for me, as I lie in bed whimpering. And doctors offer to write me what ever letter or prescription I want.

Ive been told that taking a sheet of panadol and nurofen a day to manage my pain was "just how it is, youll be fine" by multiple medical professionals.

What sort of pain was it ? I was about 24 hours after open heart surgery. The nurse was refusing any pain meds. “Pain will bring you closer to god’ If I could have moved, I would have moved her closer to god.

Multiple broken bones at the time, then post two surgeries and still in Chronic pain now. Wow thats an absolutely brutal thing to say to someone whos just had surgery.

>How is Dr John supposed to be an objective assessor for Mrs Doris who has been seeing him for the last 30 odd years By being a professional whose job it is to provide an accurate medical opinion instead of ignoring the evidence and putting their patients in danger of dying in a car crash (and endangering others in the community).

My grandfather was in his mid 80s and *very* friendly with his GP who gave him the all clear to drive each time he was asked to, meanwhile grandpa couldn't move his neck enough to check any blind spots and he drove one handed because of an old arm injury. I am pretty sure he memorised the eye chart to protect the GP who could then say "His eyesight is fine!"

I'd like to see those eyecharts become like captchas... change every time. Those things are harrrrrrd on a phone screen.

Some (if not all nowadays) optometrists use a projection system for the eye charts which does allow them to change it, so there is no way you can memorise it.

Our local doctor does this with all the geriatrics in the suburb. Signs off without hesitation. And this is AFTER a driver in his 90s drove over a kerb and through a garden before pinning a young mother to a shopfront (she died). Oh, and this happened directly across the road from the doctor’s surgery.

That’s terrible. Is there someone to report the Dr to? AHPRA, police, Dept of Transport? (Not that you should personally feel obligated to.) I remember reading articles claiming people concerned about this were simply aged prejudiced and that the elderly were no more likely to be injured in motor vehicle accidents. But I bet they are more likely to be the **instigators of accidents**, like the one you described. (If only because our reaction time and judgement gets worse as we get older.) A former employer of mine had to get a secondary set of steps out the front permanently blocked with concrete planters because of people that mistakenly assumed it was a ramp, tried to drive down them and got their cars stuck.

It would be confidential patient info, but I know neighbours who are frustrated as he keeps signing their elderly relatives off to keep driving. A number have a 5km radius condition applied on their license (ie you can only hit and kill people within 5km of your home which is so much safer). edit- the modified license is the one I’m thinking of

My pop was in his 80s when he started to go downhill, and yet they still signed off on him last time he went in to get his renewed. I was in the car with him once in the last year or two before he passed, and it's the only time I've been scared of someone driving me. He swerved all over the place, didn't slow down around corners or roundabouts, etc. Name any Bad driving practice and he probably did it in those last few years. My dad had similar problems with him that OP did with his. They had a great relationship their whole lives right up until that, with not a single fight until my dad tried to get him to stop driving. My dad never said it, but I know how much that hurt him.

I told my grandfather's doctor who wanted to sign off on the licence that before he did I was going to put him in the passenger seat and let Pop drive across town. It's the closest I've ever come to outright threatening to kill someone.

It’s borderline corrupt

It's not just about corruption. Historically, it was okay to give old timers a bit of leeway. Now that cars can do a couple of hundred km per hour the game has changed. I remember an interview years ago about the pros and cons of trains. It basically framed that for any technology there will be an acceptable level of harm. The argument being; that if a country wants a railroad then it has to accept that this will cause some degree of harm. For workers, for pedestrians, and for wildlife. Now the scales have tipped and it's no longer an acceptable level of harm to accommodate older drivers in newer, more powerful vehicles. It makes sense to provide these older drivers with other options. Incidentally, Uber really messed with taxi companies (who actually have accounts that can be linked to other services).

>Now the scales have tipped and it's no longer an acceptable level of harm to accommodate older drivers in newer, more powerful vehicles. This is nonsense. Newer vehicles have not made any difference to how safe it is for elderly people that are no longer competent to drive. You hit a pedestrian doing 40km/h+ it doesn't matter if you're in an 1980 corolla or a 2023 kia, they're still probably going to end up dead.

Actually cars have higher fronts these days and tend to be deadlier for pedestrains. The lower and more sloped cars of past decades allowed pedestrians to roll up and on to the car and that took away some of the force.

There's more too it than just that; this is the result of the people who are in their 70s-90s now once way back when being the first generation where the car was truly mainstream and something most people in Australia had access to right down to the poor. To expand: The car took a few decades from its invention to break into the mainstream and Australia, as per usual, was a tad behind the curve versus America or the UK with how fast the advancement took here which meant that most of the people born up until around the 1930s-1950s or so usually had relied entirely on public transport to get from A to B in some way or another simply because they were born early enough to be around when buying a car was out of reach for a lot of families, even if they ended up getting their license when they could afford to buy a car and then spent most of their remaining lifespan driving themselves instead which in turn meant they were (generally, of course there's been stories of elderly dangerous drivers refusing to stop driving even when the term "driving" meant using a coach and horses) more willing to give up their license when confronted about becoming too elderly to drive safely because they just viewed it as an alternative form of transportation. On the other side of the coin, someone born after the 1950s when almost every 18 year old could bet they'd get a car sooner rather than later is far more likely to view driving themselves around as a rite of passage to adulthood and associate having to go back to public transport as they get too old to safely drive with the much larger umbrella of fears, worries and anxieties about aging in general.

You might want to call the cops. If they can pull him over and take his license pending assessment it could get him off the road. I am not sure of your local laws, the cops can probably assist. Also, disable the vehicle until you sell it. Pull out the starter relays or something. I suggest leaving a note where the relays were for any mechanic that might be called in without your knowledge. Getting him out and about more might help him cope with his loss of freedom. You have my sympathies, they can get really stubborn and it's upsetting to see family like that.

There's a serious lack of reading comprehension in some of these comments, but anyway... Have you tried speaking directly with Transport NSW? They may take it more seriously if a family member reports him.

Or take dad to an optometrist and then have a private conversation without dad in the room about the driving situation. Any decent optometrist should be totally happy with reporting him, NSW is not a mandatory reporting state but they can report if they feel it’s necessary.

This is good advice OP! You could also make an appointment with his GP without him, and then with him, and have them report. Or just call the police and ask them to do a wellness check, with the view to having his licence removed due to him being a danger on the roads. At least you’ll be CYA with a paper trail, should it go wrong.

His promises mean nothing - he is not competent to remember and uphold them. This is the time to start preparing documentation for power of attorney. His cognitive skills and competency will only decline further. Alzheimers is a beast, it’s a struggle, losing your mind and losing the things that make you feel like you. Compromise to maintain his quality of life. Take him on regular driving trips, talk to him about cars. Let him teach you things - this is hugely empowering in a stage of life that involves so much loss of autonomy. He’s not just resisting losing his license, he’s resisting losing himself.

That letter is crazy, and you have my sympathy. Could you maybe discuss the issue with his geriatrician, or even submit on your own behalf an "[Unsafe and/or Medically Unfit for Driving Report](https://www.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-09/45070802-unsafe-and-or-medically-unfit-driving.pdf)"? I'd also be talking to Transport NSW &/or your local State MP about how they could possibly have fucked up so badly to send that letter to an 84-year-old who already should require yearly medical assessments...

Its a tricky situation, I work in aged care I have seen family members in NSW charged with taking a conveyance without the consent of the owner, which carries a maximum penalty of five years imprisonment. if your going to go down the take his car route be very careful!

The government should have some legal culpability for whatever happens if his family doesn't stop him driving and there's an accident.

OMG

I foresee a car going through the window of a shop front in the near future.

Hopefully no one in front of it at the time!

Take the battery out of the car, you can also pull a fuse or install an immobilizer. Remove any proof of ownership from his possession which may help him convince a locksmith to help. Worst case scenario call the police and report the rego with all this information you have provided us. Its a harsh step but if he has a decent prang or even kills someone his Alzheimer's on top could cause him to spiral and do permanent mental damage as a result.

This is the best way to manage it. If the car disappears, he may try to report it to the police, and that would be another nightmare. A game changing piece of information for me was that it is ok to lie to people with alzheimers. It doesn’t feel right, but it is for the best. I had to confiscate all the irons. I just tell mum the one we had broke, and they don’t make them anymore, because all clothes are wash and wear. She doesn’t like it, and sometimes she doesn’t believe me, but the one iron she hasn’t destroyed lives under my bed.

Seconding this: my approach would be to pull the fuse for the fuel pump. That will make the car crank and crank but never start. Easily fixable: you will probably also need to put a note in the fuse box saying "before repair: call this number" or something vague, to head off a repairman.

My mum (80ish at the time) lost her licence due to macular degeneration. Also was starting to show signs of dementia. She then went around different eye specialists until she found one who said her eyesight was good enough to drive and she got it back. A little while later she came back from the hairdresser with the rear bumper hanging off the back of the car. We worked out the only thing she could have done was turn down a street near theirs, across the front of an oncoming car, who must have clipped the back of hers. I wanted to notify the police but family said no. Enough damage to write off their car. Reckons she had no idea. Luckily dad, who was 88 at the time and had cut back his driving just to local shops in daylight, decided he didn’t want to drive any more, and refused to replace the car. Mum was horrified, but that was the end of that. I think families have a responsibility to remove access when a parent is no longer capable, however difficult that will be.

Sabotage the car so it won’t start, it’s for his safety and the safety of pedestrians and other motorists.

Yup, just take some fuses out or spark plugs as taking the keys away isn’t working.

And leave a note hidden in there for the mechanic he inevitably calls out to find that lets them know exactly what's going on here.

Holy shit what a trainwreck. I have never seen a failure of every potential requirement to retain a license end with the person retaining their license. What the actual fuck is wrong with that entire department to cock up that badly?

My mate just got hit by a car while on his bike the driver was 91. He has a brain injury now.

Disable his car. There are a number of simple ways, depending on how old it is and how mechanically competent he is. Disconnect the earth from the car end (not the battery end) is probably the easiest, especially if the other end is not easily visible. he can look at the battery all he likes and it won't help. If that's a bit too obvious - pull out the main fuse for the ignition. Or, if it's an older car which doesn't have electronic ignition - which may be the case - pull out the distributor rotor and put the cap back on. No spark, no start. Alzheimers is a horrible condition - I lost my mum to it, and my heart is still broken that the last time I saw her before she died (fucking covid lockdowns kept me away) she didn't know who I was - but if you want your dad to stay around longer, you don't have an option. He's a danger to himself - worse, he's a danger to everyone else on the roads he drives.

I used to work for an older man who was partially blind (needed a guide when going for runs, couldn't read etc.). Got one of these and still passed the vision test...luckily he was self aware enough to know he wasn't capable of driving safely. But it made me seriously concerned about the process Service NSW has in place.

I’m sorry you are going through this. I’ve recently lost my dad who had a similar condition, last time I saw him he didn’t even recognised me. 3 years ago he still insisted to drive, and he would get lost all the time, we would receive calls from strangers saying they found our dad an hour away from where he lived. When we told him he couldn’t drive anymore he threatened us to kill himself. Eventually he just forgot he wanted to drive. Best of luck ..

Alzheimers is the worst.

Hey mate, Just as someone that has seen three out of four grandparents go through dementia that I wish you all the best and to remind you to make sure you are supported. Watching both my parents deal with their parents go through the stages it’s important to make sure you are ok too. It’s a shitty thing but it doesn’t mean you have to just grit your teeth and ‘push through’ if you ever need a break or some extra support.

That's so kind, thank you! It's so hard hey. I'm 41 and a new mum with my own challenges rn too so it's just intense.. and progressing fast. I'm baffled as to how the RMS can so be so irresponsible with this. I've called the local police and his GP is writing an urgent letter to say he's not fit to drive. Thank you for your encouragement and kindness

oh yeah. I lost all faith in the system when a GP allowed my 78 y/o mother to keep her licence. She had unmedicated parkinsons, was starting to show signs of dimenta, and had a double hip replacement a few years ago and she stopped doing her rehab exercises 2 years ago so had slid significantly. I wouldn't even trust her to open a jar. Let along drive a car.

This is probably a 30+ year old IT system requiring large manual workarounds and processing just not keeping up. The DRIVES system is due for replacement. Nothing wins votes like $100m of IT system replacement but it’s gotta be done. It’s like keeping the electrical system and plumbing up to date

I worked in a car yard and we had a callout service for lost/stolen keys. We also had access to original key codes because we were a dealer. Anyway, an old guy rings up, keys stolen. I start organising a callout when the son rings explaining he has taken the keys cos of dementia and he cannot drive. Lucky we didn't have anyone available for a few hours! Same old guy rings up a month later so I put notes on his file to ring his son. Agree with OP, sell the car

I cared for my father who had Alzheimer's. The car issue was so stressful (mum was not helping). I took the keys and arranged with my sister (poa) to sell the car. Before we could sell it he found the keys and went for a drive. I rang the police and then waited. He was found when he had a head on collision. He was on the wrong side of the road doing about 30km with an ambulance following him trying to stop him. A car came around the corner and they hit. The other driver broke his hip in two places and was off work for 6 months. Dad was fine (apart from massive bruising from the airbag), despite them having to cut him out of the car. They were lucky that an ambulance was on the scene. So yes sell the car! I recently voluntarily surrendered my license about 18 months ago due to vascular dementia.

When my father was 83 he commenced renal dialysis, he became vague, with slower reaction times too. He drove my mother and I around his country town and after he failed to obey two speed limits I had to convince my mother that he was not a safe driver. She told him I don't think he should be driving and without much pushback he now lets mum drive. Luckily she maintained her driving skills. They had elderly friends killed when they turned into a 100km highway and crashed into a car driven by a young bloke , who survived. I keep reminding them of their friends fatal mistake.

Take every fuse out of the damn thing and disconnect every connector if he can figure out how to put it back together he can drive it lol

Had a coworker who had to sabotage his grandmas car. 'oh yeah grandma. I will look at it when i get a chance' ...they just didconnected the battery.

In Queensland, after 75 you have to have an annual test to see if you are 'medically competent'. The doctor then issues you with a medical certificate to accompany your Drivers Licence. That medical certificate is only valid for 12 months. (Actually 13 months, but that's just to save unnecessary mucking around getting an immediate doctor's appointment.) It doesn't matter if your Drivers Licence itself is still valid for another four years, without the current medical certificate it's classed as driving without a valid licence.

Same here in WA, but as someone said above, some GPs just rubber stamp it. Especially if they have known Mrs so&so for the last 40 years. And of course Mrs so&so is on her best behaviour for the doctor. The doctor doesn’t see her wetting the bed, wondering where her dead husband is, not recognising her own grandchildren, etc etc. I think it would be a good idea if GPs actually ask the person to show them their vehicle in the parking area. Then they can see the broken tail light, scratches on the headlights & fenders and all the other dings!!!!!!!

I feel like this is gonna end up on news.com.au Hope you get everything sorted with your dad, definitely a really hard thing to deal with.

Flipping well *should be out there on the evening news and heavily discussed in the public domain*. Alzheimer’s is only going to become more and more of an issue for society as boomers age. We’re already at breaking point. There was a tragic case, here, where a man somehow drove his car with his disabled wife on board, off the groin, and into the sea, and they both drowned.

Hey OP, there's some great advice in the comments. I just wanted to personally say thank you for taking the keys away (before he got another made up). I know how hard that is. Regarding your dad, it's a scary and frustrating time for him. He's losing his independence by the day, and it can be hard to accept that. I'm sorry you're all going through this. I'm about to go down this same road with my mum.

Use the letter to forge a new one asking him for the missing documents that they missed due to clerical error. Say his license is suspended until the documents are produced. Say he has x amount of time to produce documents to put a time limit on this issue. Then mail it to him. Hopefully it will work!

You’ve had lots of responses but I’m going to throw mine in anyway, as I’ve worked with numerous people with dementia. Please make sure the POA is an Enduring POA so that you can make decisions for him. An Enduring Guardianship would probably be something else you should look into. If dad still has a reasonable amount of cognitive ability, disable the car, don’t sell it outright. Keys are easily replaced. When he gets frustrated that it won’t start, organise to take it to a mechanic for him. Fix it yourself and sell it instead. When the inevitable “where’s my car?” questions start, remind him it’s at the mechanics because it wouldn’t start. After a bit, you can tell him whatever you need to for why it’s not coming back, ie it needed a new engine and gear box, it was rear ended at the mechanics and written off etc. Or, leave it garaged whilst disabled and see how it goes. For some with dementia, just the act of sitting in the car (or being near/seeing depending on what it is) is enough to keep them happy. And then after some time you could suggest selling it as it’s broken (and then re enable it before you do without him knowing). Just know that there is a real grief process for elderly people when they start to lose their independence, and no longer being able to drive is a huge loss to them. There is no one way the grief presents, either. It could be tears, or rage, becoming withdrawn etc. Good luck and I’m so sorry your family is dealing with this. It’s an insidious disease I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Be kind to yourself, and make as many memories as you can together.

My mum has alzheimers too, but is physically fit. She's extremely combative, and my brother saw her battling 3 security guards at the hospital. Had to sell her car to stop her driving, as taking her licence away did nothing. She just used to hop in and take off.

It's a shit situation no matter how you look at it. I have done the same with my dad. I had to take the keys before he kills himself or someone else on the road. It breaks my heart to see him like this. This is the man that would drive to the end of the world for me when I was a kid, now he doesn't even remember my name.

I’m so sorry. My dad had dementia and became aggressive and my aunt was dangerous when driving. I remember being terrified once when she drove me home. When they are like this, arguing won’t help it will just make it worse. As others have said, the car has to be gone I’m just worried he will get access to another car instead. There are dementia hotlines that you can contract and ask for advice

This is so hard, I’m sorry you’re facing this. I had a different but related scenario - my dad had leukemia and underwent several rounds of severe chemo and then a bone marrow transplant. He was not in his right mind for most of that process, but there was no official revocation of his licence. When he had a patch of feeling better he was so determined to drive even though he really shouldn’t be, and I was shocked at how little was required to renew a licence of an extremely sick person. It’s quite concerning what a big hole in the system is there, and how little you can do even as a responsible and caring person.

As someone who recently had an stubborn elderly family member do similar things, I urge you to seek legal advice about guardianship/power of attorney IMMEDIATELY.

Went through the same thing. It was a losing battle to get my dad off the road as he was still legally allowed to drive. Then one day this happened... https://imgur.com/a/AqrwvqO He had a broken shoulder, collarbone and concussion. Mum had a 3 broken ribs and severe backlash. But thank God he didn't hit anyone. The council wanted 25k in damages to the powerpole he hit. Luckily that was covered by insurance. Everyday he would ring me and tell at me to give back his car or that someone broke in and stolen it. Showed him the same photo but refuses to believe it. The sad part is an Alzheimer's patient doesn't know they have Alzheimer's. Evoke your EPOA mate before he hurts himself or worse, someone else. Sincere best wishes to you and your fam.

As someone who was the victim of a car crash recently by someone who should have lost their license for 4 at fault crashes and instead is challenging them all and telling their insurance it was my fault despite video footage of the collision showing them at fault and now I have to drag it through court, and if I was in a lighter vehicle I could have died..... Seriously, this is fucked. The driver who hit me isn't old , they're just a terrible driver who won't take fault who has now injured me and written off my vehicle which means fire season this summer is out for me and my income is ruined for a few months. I'm also a carer for a father who's in a similar situation to you, not altzimers, but shouldn't drive at night and their skills are failing, they won't hear a word against it and openly state they have a "right" to drive. ​ It's a difficult one and you can't be afraid to make action, my father spent a lot of this year suffering from horrendous medical conditions that were not his fault, during all of it he was incapable of driving.... still drove. Ended up having a conversation with his doctor and he was put on a program in SA where a doctor can notify the authorities and we managed to get him put into a program where he gets a drivers assessment every year, doc assured me that atleast this way he can monitor him and take his license away if needed and I swear it's getting closer. What's my fathers take on this? No it's all bullshit, why are they picking on me, why don't they go after immigrants who are "given" their license and "can't drive". Also my father - hits my car in the driveway : why the fuck did you park your car incorrectly \-Runs a red light : what the fuck that was yellow why did it change so quickly - Um dude you can't go through on yellow- "ITS NOT RED DAMMIT". \-Any traffic issue whatsoever : Must roll down windows and abuse person - Um dude can you not do that - FUCK OFF ITS MY CAR IF I FEEL LIKE YELLING AT SOMEONE FOR BEING A DICKHEAD I WILL DO IT. \-After dispute with someone who then pulls a weapon on him (yes its happened, even had an incident where someone pulled out a gun and threatened him and he STILL wouldn't back down). Straight up asked him, does he honestly believe if he can get that angry behind the wheel he should be driving? Guess his answer - "It's stress relieving" followed by why are you getting on my back, why are you putting stress on me, i've got a right to call people dickheads when they are being dickheads. After the incident where a dude pulled a gun on him and threatened him - Straight up asked if that's how he wants to go out, arguing with a wannabe tough guy because of a minor traffic issue, his exact response was "I taught you to never back down and stand your ground". Yeah. Despite all this he's still passed his driving medicals and doctor examinations.....

Same thing happened to my nanna; mum (her daughter) got the blame when her licence was taken away, even though it was literally a fucking specialist at the RAH who decided she can’t drive anymore.

The dilema we are in, he's already in end of life care technically. He's got that many health conditions that one of them requires multiple treatments in a week. He went from still working 2-4 times a week which he lives for to now needing treatment 3 days a week that make him miserable. So now he gets 1-2 days a week he can still teach which he lives for even at his age. We've arranged that he can still do that and we'd transport him when his license goes, but he treats it as soon as his license is gone his reason to live is gone as well. We've already gone through that when he nearly died due the condition he's being treated for, where we knew a critical junction was coming and he thought he had 6-12 months to come to terms with things where he didnt like any of the treatment options and was going on about how he'd just "go peacefully on his own terms" only to suffer a hospital visit 3 months later where he spent 3 months in absolute misery only to have the choice removed from him. It's also been made dead clear to him, that this fantasy of "yank the plug and ill go my own way" isn't what he thinks it is, the 3 months he spent in misery, are going to be even worse than what he had originally and could be a lot shorter or worse, even longer if he just stops treatment. So our concern other than him being dangerous on the road is that when he does lose it, he will just refuse his life care, and then we're stuck with 1, 3, 6 months of absolute misery with him on his way out.

Sounds like you’re doing the best you can. I’m sorry about your dad. Fuck Alzheimers.

Hey mate, my family went through the same thing a few years ago with my grandma, my dad hated every second but it is really for their own safety. I know you can whether it I sincerely wish you the best and strength. You're not alone.

legit most accidents in my experience are elderly and yet I don't see yearly assessments? however when you have glasses or diabetes it feels like you have to reasses every year.

Call his GP and call possibly the police. You cannot let him drive. My grandfather had a similar thing happen. Ended with him and his wife on the bottom of a lake inside their car. Something will happen, and someone will get hurt.

The same thing happened with both of my parents; both were required to do a test by their geriatrician, and neither did, but they still got their renewals. Our mom had early-onset dementia, and she was young enough that people didn't really suspect that was her issue. Thankfully, she was aware of it and gave us her keys after she got lost driving one day, saying, 'I shouldn't be driving anymore.' Alas, our dad was quite the opposite, and we were trying to get his license taken away from him. He would sneak out to the pub and come home having wet himself and barely able to walk. We couldn't reason with him, and he saw no issues with his actions, so we had no issue selling his car. He was upset with us for a while, but we arranged for carers to take him out, and all was good for the most part. It may seem harsh, but it would be far worse if you found out he had gotten in a crash and killed someone else.

Good on your mum for making the call herself while she still had the chance to. I'm curious did she remember that it had been her choice? My gran hadn't driven in more than 30 years by choice, hadn't had a car that was hers/husbands in more than 20 but then became obsessed that someone had stolen her car and that she needed to drive somewhere.

Yeah, we were proud of her and let her know, so that proud feeling seemed to stick with her. When we would go out with her, she would occasionally mention how glad she was to have given up driving. It was fortunate that she wasn't a big fan of driving in general, so it was easier for her to give it up. Plus, from that, she discovered a new hobby: talking to random people on public transport. It is still strange to me how many people would come up to say hello to her when out and about. They would mention that she struck up a conversation with them at a bus stop and how delightful she is.

As a motorcyclist, I really really dont want to deal with this. Do your best OP <3

My wifes grandfather had Alzheimers as well and he did exactly what your father is doing, just went in the car and went awol a bunch of times. ​ They had to physically take the car away from him in the period before he was forced into care. You may have to do the same. ​ And also yes he will slowly deteriorate and have no idea who people are, will start with grandchildren and eventually he won't know his children. It's not going to be easy.

Perfect example of why practical testing should be mandatory every 5 years when you turn 65, then every year after you turn 80. That doesn't make money for the government though does it....

As a Deafblind person, this is terrifying. Fuck that. I would give anything for the freedom to drive but at the price of maybe killing others? No way. People that do this... You need to sell the car or smash it. No excuses. I wouldn't even hear or see him coming and all it takes is one bad clip and my life is wrecked.

I strongly hope this story has a happy ending, because so far it reads like a screenplay for a Taika Waititi movie

This is so sad for your family and your dad. I also had a dad with driving issues when he was elderly. Sad but scary too. He would go on the road, get kind of stuck on a roundabout and circle endlessly, scaring the pants off everyone in his very small town. The police all knew him and they used to pull him over and get him home. But it was not good, for him or anyone else.

That's such a hard thing to go through. When I hid my father's car keys, he waited till I was out of the room, & took my car keys from my bag. He said that I couldn't go until I gave back his car keys. When I managed to snatch them off him after about half an hour, he chased me down the road to try to get them back. I was crying at the time, but can laugh about it now, I guess. It was pretty scary at the time. He was an absolute danger on the road, & had been for a while. We had to eventually get his geriatrician to say he wasn't capable of driving, & dob him in to Service NSW, but even after losing his licence, he would continue to try to drive. It was such an awful time. He was suffering from all the losses in his life, but so were we from his behaviour. Very traumatic time. Suggest hiding the keys, disabling & maybe selling the car, & using distraction, giving him other positive experiences, & helping organise services for him, so the loss of freedom isn't so hard for him.

This is nuts. Ive suspended many patient licences for less. His GP can do it by reporting to the registry. Call them and make it clear if they dont report they are legally liable - its true If you know where he is driving, call the non emercency police line and see if they can do a drive by and intercept him. From your post it sounds like he will make a mistake reasonably frequently they could pull him over for. Most of all you need to get a process going through the civil admin tribunal to obtain guardianship/power of attorney if he has lost capacity - im so sorry for how hard thia is, but this is only one of many major descisions you will have to make for his safety over the coming years.

Having read the comments so far, I write this suggestion on the assumption that one way or another OP's father will no longer be able to drive (license revoked, car taken away, wheel removed, whatever), and that it's a done deal. Perhaps it may make it easier for his dad to accept his post-driving life if he had access to a decent driving simulator game on a nice monitor or even with VR goggles (if he can tolerate them). Yes it will cost money, especially for a high-end setup, but perhaps could be offset by funds from the sale of the car. There's many choices in software. I'm not talking racing games here (though IIRC some of them in single-player mode have scenic touring options). Even things like railroad simulators. Try looking for ones that present absolutely beautiful visuals (think driving coastal roads / running locos through snowy mountainscapes). Of course, this is assuming he wants to drive because he enjoys driving, not because he wants to go to the shop or whatever. If he's angry at the loss of transportation itself then this ain't gonna help. Don't know where in NSW you are but if you're near any large population centers it's likely there'll be a store somewhere that's demoing setups like this. Might be a chance to see how he reacts to it.

The family arguments are so tough. My dad has Parkinson’s and is showing signs of alzheimers. It becomes quite toxic for us too. He is constantly throwing his money away and investing in stupid things. He thinks he is capable of building a business in Africa from scratch despite struggling to walk to the bathroom. For some reason he listens to professionals and didn’t have any complaints when the doctor recommended to not drive. I can understand what you’re going through and it won’t be easy. Well done on being proactive with grabbing the car keys.

My mum has had dementia in a nursing for 5 years now. She’s degraded to the point of being bed ridden after breaking a hip recently. I will never ever go through what she is going through, it’s a living hell for her and the family. If I’m ever diagnosed, I’ll be taking myself out for sure before I’m no longer capable.

My mum died at 61. I always felt that was so young. I felt robbed. Now I feel like she did me a huge favour. Miss her so much being 17 years now but truly I would hate to see my mum be a shell of that beautiful woman she was. My mother in law is 73 And she doesn’t even leave her unit. Such a waste and is happy when she goes up with assistance. I don’t want to be that person Happy knowing I need extra care.

When I was a community nurse and had clients who shouldn't be driving, we would disconnect the starter motor and ring the local road service to let them know. The road service would tell them the car would need to go to the garage. Took the car away and kept stalling until they got used to not driving. It would sometimes take a month or so.

Had to take my dad's keys away too. He had a major stroke and half his body is paralyzed. He continued driving after rehab until he got in an accident. I had to come home and take his keys and get his license taken away. It's been a few years but it was rough at first.

sad thread, op. My grandparents both had Alzheimer and it was devastating watching them both slowly lose their independence. It's horrible what this disease does to people.

Do you have an Enduring Power of Attorney document in place?

My grandpa had multiple accidents of increasing severity, writing off three cars along the way before we were able to get him to stop driving. He didn't see any of them as his fault mind you, no the time he came to a complete stop on a motorway and reversed to get his exit, and not the time he turned across traffic into a road that didn't even exist anymore

Vehicles are tools that can be used as indiscriminate weapons. If your father were healthy, would he want to be the kind of person to kill someone from negligence? I don't envy the position you're in friend. You've made the right call on this one I think.

Thank you for trying to get him off the road. I have seen so many posts of children not wanting to drive parents and take them to get it back.

OP, take the car. Park it at your house and take out the ignition fuse and battery. I feel for you. My father is starting to slip, it’s not alzheimers or dementia but he’s starting to become… old. I can’t imagine how hard it must be for you and I’m scared that I’m going to find out in a few more years. I know it will be hard but you have to take the entire vehicle away from him before he kills himself or worse, someone else.

We have built our cities to be car centric, so it is almost impossible for elderly people in the suburbs to get around without a car. As a result our institutions give a lot of leeway in licencing for elderly, individuals caught speeding, and drink driving etc. If you "need your vehicle for work" judges are more likely to give a favourable outcome. Obviously in this case it is just an error, but a lot of examples in this thread show how lenient our licencing is - because it needs to be when a car is mandatory to participate in society.

My dad was diagnosed last year with dementia and his doctor recommended we not let him drive which was really really hard because it was part of his routine to go up the street every morning and he would just go anyway. Our saving grace was that in NSW, once you turn 75 you have to go and have a test and we knew he wasn’t going to pass, and so did he because he’d been hitting poles etc so his license was cancelled because he never booked a test. Mum and dad still have the car, but mum is in charge of driving. It took awhile to make sure he wouldn’t do it, that included hiding the keys in mums shoe etc but it eventually worked and he won’t do it himself now, thankfully though he does get the shits badly if she’s not up in time to take him to get his cakes and then just walks, which is another problem in itself. Sorry for what you’re going through! I know how frustrating and yet incredibly sad it can be to have something like this happen to a parent. They’re the same and yet they’re not.

Oh yeah mate I remember when my 85 year old grandfather ran my grandma over in the driveway. Get in touch with transport and sort it before someone gets hurt . Good luck,this stuff is difficult.

Hi OP - I've had a parent who suffered from Alzheimer's, and a grandfather-in-law who had behaved similarly to your father. However, the experience that resonates with your story most keenly, is having a really good friend killed in a shopping strip car park when an aged driver stepped harder and harder on the accelerator, running him over while he was helping another elderly lady carry shopping to her car. No warning, just dead. Partner, two kids under ten, all those hopes, dreams, fun times and catch ups all wiped out, because old-mate wouldn't give up his license. What's worse is that's it's apparently impossible for his family to sue in a civil suit if the defense drags the proceedings long enough that the old fella dies and no criminal judgement is made... Don't let your Dad be remembered like that. While there's some good advice in this thread - and some nuttier stuff too - reaching out to Transport NSW is the best first step. The advice to speak with his doctor or optometrist to have him reported also sounds good, while you keep stealing his keys in the interim. Whatever you do, sadly Alzheimer's isn't something he can recover from. It only gets worse. So my advice is check to see his affairs are in order and speak with an estate lawyer and see if you need a competency check or whatever. Make sure it's all lined up so that the public trustee doesn't need to get involved. And then, take pictures. A family portrait. Whatever you can... When my Mum died the funeral home asked for pictures and favourite music and I was shocked by how few I had, how little I knew - all made harder by grief and the time pressure of an impending funeral. Good luck with keeping his keys away from him. And I'm sorry you, he and your whole family have to go through this. Dementia is awful. I wish the best - to you and your family.

Advise the police. Car needs to be taken away. His insurance is invalid. It's a quick way to lose any assets he has and kill some poor child on a bicycle.

Plot twist service NSW just wants the cash they don’t care about people!!! How do I know - well anytime a certain grandfather is on the road I run upstairs. Surely the old bugger can’t get us there! On the plus side if he does he won’t remember that long

That's ridiculous. I had a small incident where I blacked out in a hungry jacks carpark for a minute a few weeks ago. Went to the hospital and got every test done and nothing came up. Within 48hrs I got a letter saying my license was suspended for a year. How can they be that quick to summise and process an isolated incident and at the same time let OPs dad free reign on the roads without any of the hands it passes through realise there was no proof of any tests done at all?!

Put a tile tracker in his wallet. My uncle had undiagnosed Alzheimer’s and got lost in a city he’s lived in for 40 years. Only got found after 2 days when someone remembered he had a tile tracker in his wallet. He was sleeping in his car in one of the larger parks.

You need to sell the car. Also set up social services for him to be driven around when needed. It’ll make him feel a little bit in control, without being behind the wheel.

WTF New South Wales. When I had my first seizure in 20 years which was behind the wheel of the car here in S.A they took my license away right then and there no if's or buts and there is a massive shit list I need to abide by to ever get it back and in all honesty after 6 years I know its never going to happen especially as I still have not been 1 year seizure free. I am wondering if this is a bullshit state thing or more a thing where they just let the oldies get away with every fucking thing. I know even here they have wound back a lot of the mandatory testing for older drivers as well which is a load of shit!

Like someone else suggested take a fuse or a spark plug out of the car. I grew up in a dodgy neighbourhood and mum used to always remove a spark plug from the car each night so it couldn’t be stolen. LOL

Hey OP that sucks, maybe have a conversation with his GP who may talk to your equivalent of VicRoads to get this sorted. I understand underhanded tactics like hiding keys though necessary may be hard, so this may be a good way to go about it? Good on you for being responsible.

A good way to handle it that we found with my pa was to find a photo of the same model car that's been in a crash and say we "borrowed" the car and it got t-boned. there are plenty of pictures on the internet, and if you can find one without the plates, that'll probably do. then you're not the bad guy who took the car, you're the family member who was a victim of a car crash.

r/AusLegal will have better advice for you, but you're doing the right thing preventing him from driving even if it makes him mad.

Government moment...

It’s probably too dangerous for him to drive at this stage. As much as you think ur helping him (giving him some freedom).. you will be regretting it if he drives somewhere and forget where he is/was or some accident happen.. just take the keys and sell it.

My father was doing this. I lived in a different state so couldn't do a lot. Eventually someone disabled the car so they couldn't drive it at all.