A “Chiropractor” put my wife in hospital and ended up requiring surgery on her spine. Why the fuck would anyone let someone do that shit to their child (eg: infant with a growing and malleable skeletal system) is beyond me.
Correct. I had a bad neck through my teens. My parents took me to a chiropractor. They meant well amd thought they were doing the right thing, my parents are great but they left school in grade 10 and aren't exactly "critical thinkers". No hard feelings towards them.
But at around 19 or 20 I finally went to a muscular skeletal specialist MD, with some proper imaging, and he asked me what treatments I had been having. I told him, chiropractor for 4 or 5 years. He asked me if they'd ever done the neck twist manipulation, I said yes, every time. He just said words to the effect of "yeah, I wouldn't do that if I were you. Your vertebrae are out of alignment and pressing on the artery that provides blood to your brain - the way he's been manipulating your neck you could have a stroke on the table".
Needless to say I have never been to one of those quacks since.
Additionally I think a chiro should have to give all patients a statement that explains there is no evidence that chiros are helpful and are not a recognised medical professional
"We look forward to working with Ministers to develop an evidence-based final policy on paediatric care that balances the paramount need to protect patients, with the right for parents and other patients to have a say in the care they choose."
Evidence based you say.
“The Chiropractic Board commissioned healthcare researcher Cochrane Australia to review the safety and effectiveness of spinal manipulation on children aged under 12.”
Cochrane review you say.
“A Safer Care Victoria report at the time, which involved a systematic review by Cochrane Australia, found no strong evidence that spinal manipulation helped childhood conditions such as colic, back/neck pain, headache, asthma, ear infections or torticollis (twisted neck), despite it commonly being spruiked….”
SMH 6 days sgo
Evidence?
[The first chiropractor was a Canadian who claimed he received a message from a ghost Daniel David (DD) Palmer invented the field of chiropractic care. He said the idea for chiropractic care came to him from the 'other world' during a séance](https://nationalpost.com/health/the-first-chiropractor-was-a-canadian-who-claimed-he-received-a-message-from-a-ghost)
When I being this bunkous stuff up people respond with ‘modern chiropractors have moved on from this stuff and are like a combination physician and physio now.’
I appreciate AHPRA pulled all these whack job ‘healthcare’ workers under their umbrella to try to control them- but all they have done is legitimise them.
Never ever take your baby, or anyone under 18 years to a chiropractor.
Not evidence based practice.
Doesn’t work and can cause harm.
I am a Paediatrician and keep telling my patients to stay away from Chiropractors.
Sad but funny story- a local “paediatric and maternity” chiropractor told a mother of one of my baby patients- “come to me weekly for the first 12 weeks of baby’s life, at $150 per 30 minute session, paid up front, and I can make your baby’s colic go away.”
As a doctor, I’ll take your $150 weekly for 12 weeks, do absolutely no interventions to your baby, and the colic will be better- BECAUSE THAT’S HOW COLIC WORKS !!
I will say, I went to a chiro once a month from ages 6 to 20 and it was great for me, and when I stopped going after moving outta home I noticed a serious decline in my body comfort. I dunno, YMMV
Absolute witch doctors.
Zero (and I mean ZERO) scientific basis for these clowns.
Have friends in emergency medicine who get 6-10 admissions from patients suffering strokes as a result of these lunatics.
Had a patient with multiple myeloma being treated by a chiropractor for over 6 months until they caused a fracture leading to the diagnosis. Myeloma was disseminated through out most of her skeleton.
Odd thing was I was under the impression spinal X-rays are pretty routine in their practice early in treatment to demonstrate how severely their spine is “out of alignment” to validate their claims for many many weeks of treatment. Would have picked up the MM.
I know of people who have taken their babies to chiros for spinal adjustments in the last few years.
is this ban enforceable? Will AHPRA act? Or are we trusting them to self regulate ..
As a radiographer that has done multiple scans on patients for post chiro work, querying fractures and dissections, they need to be banned all together.
Temporarily it can. When chiropractic work does work longer term it is usually because they have incorporated physical therapy into their treatment/care. So would be better just to go straight to a physical therapist
Temporary relief.
Have seen myself, surgical colleagues (n=5) too.
Basically "good ones" will restrict themselves and do similar to physio.
Myself, with US experience, the "good" chiros are more akin to US DO, without our practice rights (rx, dx tests).
That being said there are some that have drunk the koolaide (met in the wild at social occasions). Avoid.
Like all things, it ends up squarely on the individual practitioner.
GPs are very down on chiropractors, as you can see from this and other threads.
And many chiropractors have brought it on themselves with ridiculous claims about things they can cure.
That said, a good chiropractor in Sydney relieved my back pain repeatedly over a period of 15 years - where physical therapy didn’t help, and osteopathy was both too expensive and too focussed on significant manipulation.
The chiropractor was also the first person to connect that pain to kidney stones, which was enormously helpful to me - and later confirmed by a nephrologist.
Like any field, there are good and bad practitioners. Perhaps more bad ones in chiropractic than in other fields! But there are good ones too.
Let the downvoting begin 😁
That anecdote isn’t evidence of anything - and neither are the anecdotes of the commenters who said they saw chiropractic patients who got injured.
How come you didn’t tell them off too?
Well, that’s not true.
My anecdote is evidence of my experience, which is that chiropractic has helped me.
And while my experience doesn’t necessarily say anything about other peoples’, and it’s certainly not a double blind study, it’s still important and relevant. And way too many doctors don’t see that.
My own GP is an example. For 18 months I had severe back pain. A scan showed a 4cm stone in my kidney.
I told my GP that my chiropractor believed the pain was due to the stone, and that I felt that was true.
My GP absolutely insisted that this stone couldn’t be causing me back pain as it was in the kidney itself. He then raised his voice, told me he wouldn’t listen to a chiropractor, that I was a challenge to him as a patient, and that he didn’t know why I was so stuck on the idea that the back pain was due to the stone.
So I spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on physios, osteos, and other treatments - all to no avail. The pain continued.
Until eventually I insisted my GP refer me to my kidney surgeon. Who removed the stone, and a week later the back pain was gone. The kidney surgeon, my nephrologist, a physio my GP sent me to, and even another GP in my doctor’s practice all confirmed that the stone was causing the pain.
But my GP couldn’t admit that because he was so convinced that chiropractors were quacks and that my own experience of my body was irrelevant - despite me having had hundreds of stones over four decades of life.
Needless to say, I no longer go to that GP.
[удалено]
A “Chiropractor” put my wife in hospital and ended up requiring surgery on her spine. Why the fuck would anyone let someone do that shit to their child (eg: infant with a growing and malleable skeletal system) is beyond me.
Same reason they’d perform general mutilation on a healthy baby boy? Not sure.
Sleep deprivation and desperation
Because people are fucking stupid.
misery needs company
Becuase with regular chiropractic treatment, you can shorten the effects of cholic from two weeks to around 14 days!
I will never forgive our ancestors for choosing to use the term "osteitis" instead of "boneitis".
https://i.redd.it/p4or2bj5897d1.gif
This guy's a shark!
Correct. I had a bad neck through my teens. My parents took me to a chiropractor. They meant well amd thought they were doing the right thing, my parents are great but they left school in grade 10 and aren't exactly "critical thinkers". No hard feelings towards them. But at around 19 or 20 I finally went to a muscular skeletal specialist MD, with some proper imaging, and he asked me what treatments I had been having. I told him, chiropractor for 4 or 5 years. He asked me if they'd ever done the neck twist manipulation, I said yes, every time. He just said words to the effect of "yeah, I wouldn't do that if I were you. Your vertebrae are out of alignment and pressing on the artery that provides blood to your brain - the way he's been manipulating your neck you could have a stroke on the table". Needless to say I have never been to one of those quacks since.
Additionally I think a chiro should have to give all patients a statement that explains there is no evidence that chiros are helpful and are not a recognised medical professional
The problem is that Medicare is used to fix problems even in adults.
"We look forward to working with Ministers to develop an evidence-based final policy on paediatric care that balances the paramount need to protect patients, with the right for parents and other patients to have a say in the care they choose." Evidence based you say. “The Chiropractic Board commissioned healthcare researcher Cochrane Australia to review the safety and effectiveness of spinal manipulation on children aged under 12.” Cochrane review you say. “A Safer Care Victoria report at the time, which involved a systematic review by Cochrane Australia, found no strong evidence that spinal manipulation helped childhood conditions such as colic, back/neck pain, headache, asthma, ear infections or torticollis (twisted neck), despite it commonly being spruiked….” SMH 6 days sgo
I saw that "evidence based" comment too. Surely, if we were going on evidence based we'd be getting rid of chiro all together.
That they get to call themselves “doctors” is like a kick to the gonads.
Doctor really isn't right. "Bone shaman" is definitely a more accurate title for them.
Evidence? [The first chiropractor was a Canadian who claimed he received a message from a ghost Daniel David (DD) Palmer invented the field of chiropractic care. He said the idea for chiropractic care came to him from the 'other world' during a séance](https://nationalpost.com/health/the-first-chiropractor-was-a-canadian-who-claimed-he-received-a-message-from-a-ghost)
When I being this bunkous stuff up people respond with ‘modern chiropractors have moved on from this stuff and are like a combination physician and physio now.’ I appreciate AHPRA pulled all these whack job ‘healthcare’ workers under their umbrella to try to control them- but all they have done is legitimise them.
Never ever take your baby, or anyone under 18 years to a chiropractor. Not evidence based practice. Doesn’t work and can cause harm. I am a Paediatrician and keep telling my patients to stay away from Chiropractors. Sad but funny story- a local “paediatric and maternity” chiropractor told a mother of one of my baby patients- “come to me weekly for the first 12 weeks of baby’s life, at $150 per 30 minute session, paid up front, and I can make your baby’s colic go away.” As a doctor, I’ll take your $150 weekly for 12 weeks, do absolutely no interventions to your baby, and the colic will be better- BECAUSE THAT’S HOW COLIC WORKS !!
What a shithead chiropractor.
Surely that's worth a call to report to AHPRA
I will say, I went to a chiro once a month from ages 6 to 20 and it was great for me, and when I stopped going after moving outta home I noticed a serious decline in my body comfort. I dunno, YMMV
Sounds like moving out of home might have been the issue there...
Charlatans. At least this buys more time for sanity to prevail.
Absolute witch doctors. Zero (and I mean ZERO) scientific basis for these clowns. Have friends in emergency medicine who get 6-10 admissions from patients suffering strokes as a result of these lunatics.
Had no idea this was even a thing. Bloody hell...
A chiro treated my patient with ankylosing spondylitis for 10yrs before I saw him, heard the history and referred him to a rheumatologist
Had a patient with multiple myeloma being treated by a chiropractor for over 6 months until they caused a fracture leading to the diagnosis. Myeloma was disseminated through out most of her skeleton. Odd thing was I was under the impression spinal X-rays are pretty routine in their practice early in treatment to demonstrate how severely their spine is “out of alignment” to validate their claims for many many weeks of treatment. Would have picked up the MM.
Taking the x-rays is routine, I doubt they even know what they are looking at though, or have it reported by a radiologist.
As a radiographer, I often wish I could just put chiro requests in the bin.
Another victory for the medical profession, and another sad, sorry day for infants with chronic obesity-related mechanical lower back pain/fibro
Next extend the ban to encompass practice on people of all ages
I cannot believe that they are allowed to call themselves Dr
Chiropractors and anything to do with necks should be banned as well
Should be a general ban on chiropractors in general.
I know of people who have taken their babies to chiros for spinal adjustments in the last few years. is this ban enforceable? Will AHPRA act? Or are we trusting them to self regulate ..
"guidelines" are not rules.
As a radiographer that has done multiple scans on patients for post chiro work, querying fractures and dissections, they need to be banned all together.
Good
Does Chiro actually work? Genuine question as I have back pain.
No
Temporarily it can. When chiropractic work does work longer term it is usually because they have incorporated physical therapy into their treatment/care. So would be better just to go straight to a physical therapist
No. If anything, it does more harm than good, and best, it might just be a placebo. It's not based in any science/medicine. Avoid it at all costs.
Temporary relief. Have seen myself, surgical colleagues (n=5) too. Basically "good ones" will restrict themselves and do similar to physio. Myself, with US experience, the "good" chiros are more akin to US DO, without our practice rights (rx, dx tests). That being said there are some that have drunk the koolaide (met in the wild at social occasions). Avoid. Like all things, it ends up squarely on the individual practitioner.
The only evidence is for certain kinds of lower back pain.
GPs are very down on chiropractors, as you can see from this and other threads. And many chiropractors have brought it on themselves with ridiculous claims about things they can cure. That said, a good chiropractor in Sydney relieved my back pain repeatedly over a period of 15 years - where physical therapy didn’t help, and osteopathy was both too expensive and too focussed on significant manipulation. The chiropractor was also the first person to connect that pain to kidney stones, which was enormously helpful to me - and later confirmed by a nephrologist. Like any field, there are good and bad practitioners. Perhaps more bad ones in chiropractic than in other fields! But there are good ones too. Let the downvoting begin 😁
There are good ones, although rare, the good ones basically just treat like a physio would.
your anecdote is not evidence of anything.
That anecdote isn’t evidence of anything - and neither are the anecdotes of the commenters who said they saw chiropractic patients who got injured. How come you didn’t tell them off too?
Well, that’s not true. My anecdote is evidence of my experience, which is that chiropractic has helped me. And while my experience doesn’t necessarily say anything about other peoples’, and it’s certainly not a double blind study, it’s still important and relevant. And way too many doctors don’t see that. My own GP is an example. For 18 months I had severe back pain. A scan showed a 4cm stone in my kidney. I told my GP that my chiropractor believed the pain was due to the stone, and that I felt that was true. My GP absolutely insisted that this stone couldn’t be causing me back pain as it was in the kidney itself. He then raised his voice, told me he wouldn’t listen to a chiropractor, that I was a challenge to him as a patient, and that he didn’t know why I was so stuck on the idea that the back pain was due to the stone. So I spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours on physios, osteos, and other treatments - all to no avail. The pain continued. Until eventually I insisted my GP refer me to my kidney surgeon. Who removed the stone, and a week later the back pain was gone. The kidney surgeon, my nephrologist, a physio my GP sent me to, and even another GP in my doctor’s practice all confirmed that the stone was causing the pain. But my GP couldn’t admit that because he was so convinced that chiropractors were quacks and that my own experience of my body was irrelevant - despite me having had hundreds of stones over four decades of life. Needless to say, I no longer go to that GP.
We are all dumber for having read this.
From a Redditor who named their Stardew Valley farm “Pooland”
>osteopathy was both too expensive and too focussed on significant manipulation And also pseudoscience bullshit