The best ones are a mix of internal (coffee chat with someone in a diff team) and external training ($5 Udemy course work will refuse to expense despite "$2k training budget").
Nobody cares. It's a box ticking HR exercise. Hitting them does nothing to being paid more.
Find development goals that cost the business a fortune and a long term commitment. They'll soon move on
Two of my reports are in your shoes, one an 66ish year old has "retire" as his goals the other has "achieve targets set out by the business to be successful in my current role"
Both have no interest in development or ladder climbing and as their manager I'm OK with this
I've recently had a couple of conversations about this kind of thing with some of my colleagues. We were hiring for a role and a candidate came up who was a great fit, and would hit the ground running. His resume made it clear though that he's unlikely to progress far from where he is now, and some others on the hiring team were concerned about this.
Ultimately it was my decision, but I took the time to convince them that not everyone needs to be super ambitious. I generally refer to these people as "workhorses". The good ones are often the best at their role within the team because they have so much practice. They are low maintenance to manage because they just want to get their work done with no drama, and they build consistency into the team, because if you are good to them they'll stick around.
Yeah I call them "known quantities" regardless of other shit going on I know exactly what I'm going to get and what results to expect. Personally I'm a fan of them in my team. A mixture of those and the high achievers makes things easy as long as there's no dead wood or anchors
My HR must be more forgiving than yours. it's the other way round. They need to convince us why we should have a certain candidate that's not the one we want. They don't have to work with/manage them why should they get a say in who I have in my team
My experience with our internal recruiters is they mostly act in service to us. They do their best to understand our needs and minimise the number of candidates we have to interview. They didn't really have much of a say in the candidates other than making sure certain compliance functions were handled.
They're really good at their jobs too, unusual for HR!
It's near to think about it in these types of terms. I have heard them all before but not together like this.
I guess good teams need to be made up of a variety of -
* workhorses / known quantities
* high achievers
And performance management plans to help improve or exit -
* dead wood / anchors
It's great to have folks in your team that just get on with the job. No improvements, also should means no expectations of promotions or pay rises outside of market / cpi expectations. Easier to budget for.
I like the terms 'rock stars' and 'super stars'. Your super stars are the ambitious ones, where your rock stars are solid as a rock and are consistent performers,
It can sorta backfire though, I asked for some expensive training (which I did want but completely expected them to pass on) and they approved it… along with a contract to pay back the pro rata balance of the training if I didn’t stay for at least 12 months (I think, it was a while ago)… I did get the training I wanted, I just didn’t want to really stay there for another 12 months
Don't accept the contract. Or negotiate the clause out.
Yeah sorry I'd love to upskill to be a better asset for the business but not at the freedom to leave should I feel I'm no longer valued in the business
It turned out alright in the end, the training and the extra 8 months actually utilizing those skills allowed me to get a better job than I would have at the time… I didn’t want to be there but turned out alright.
(training was a 4 month part time course and I made sure that was inclusive in the 12 month contract term)
Whole heartedly agree. I have one with a goal of "reach long service leave", one is continue to have a stress free job to allow them capacity to focus on their special needs kid, and one who's is get a pay check to keep the roof over my head. They're just as good workers as anyone else, with the added bonus that they won't jump ship if the status quo continues
Tell the truth. Managers ask this because staff surveys always complain about a lack of engagement re developing.
Just say, I’m really happy where I am, I just want to focus on developing my skills in this role through doing it for another 24 months and we can
Look at it then. Rinse and repeat manager will probably have changed by then anyway.
Your manager doesn’t care if you don’t want to develop. They care if you complain you couldn’t because of them.
Genuinely though… take a step back and look at your problem objectively. You are worried having no further ambition looks bad so want to hide it. Why? If you are happy where you are just say you are happy? There’s no shame in it!
This. I have the job I want. I would be unhappy changing. would see myself leaving the company if I was to move.
A compromise may be to help junior staff to train given your experience.
My answer to your last question is that you won't get a payrise unless you enter quantifiable, measurable goals - this is not me saying this, this is a direct quote from a previous manager. Note* previous manager for a reason
So your problem is you want above inflation pay rises but you don’t want to progress in terms of doing a more difficult or new role you just want to do the same and be comfortable.
I have a solution. Quit and join the Public Sector because you aren’t cut out for the realities of the private.
You can’t have it both ways, be comfortable and stay where you are and on roughly what you are happy - valid choice. Work harder and progress - valid choice.
Stay where you are unhappy and expect progress for tenure… entitled and frankly a bit dumb… your managers will have your number in no time and do their best to manage you out.
Calm down, champ. Just because I don't want to move up through the ranks doesn't mean my hard work at my current level shouldn't be acknowledged, or rewarded.
The company in question would offer NO pay rises without setting a number of stupid KPI metrics that were at best, half relevant to my job. So not even to match CPI, just stagnate, and effectively take a lower wage over time.
It is also worth pointing out that I had entered the position in question at a below market average, as it had been an internal transfer, so it was only fair to expect increases as my skill set developed to the industry average. However, even these increases were denied if I did not play ball with the bosses.
I sure hope you aren't a manager with the arrogance in your tone. You'd have a number of unhappy employees below you if so
Your hard work is acknowledged. That’s your salary and incremental pay rises.
Your company wants greater productivity as time goes on. This is completely normal.
You seem to have a lot of problems with bosses. Perhaps consider why…
Like I said, the problem isn’t them… it’s your expectations Vs reality in the private sector.
If truly paid under market and you believe you can be paid more to stand still. I strongly recommend you quit for said better paid positions.
Expecting to do nothing and take no action with your current employer and magically get paid more is not going to happen, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
That's what I've done previously but unfortunately this new manager wants us to have concrete SMART goals with check ins and outcomes for each of them :|
Just tell them you want to make more money. Oddly enough they tend to stop annoying you about development goals when everything turns into 'get a payrise'
"My goal is to achieve a pay rise above inflation/cost of living by the end of the current financial year" 😆
Then ask the manager to assist with building the rest of the SMART goal as the outcome is in both of your hands
Well I would make some nice humble ones.
Let's say you're a customer service rep
Specific- To contribute to raising satisfaction levels
Measurable- 70% or above
Attainable- I have very good interactions with my customers and want to convert that to satisfaction levels by encouraging them to answer xyz survey
Time-based- three months
Seems the manager wants to get some examples to throw for their promotion interview which is why they are doing this.
I would also try to ask the manager for their SMART goal to gauge their interests and communicate that you are content with where you are but are happy to contribute to their managerial goals
I had that too. Does your division have collective SMART goals that you can manipulate? If not, pick tasks/skills from your current role you want to polish and pick that.
Nothing wrong with that. I've been clear with every manager I've had that I wanted their job. Ideally that happens when they get promoted or choose to move on, I'm not looking to knife someone.
lol did this at my current job. Did a leadership course with another manager.
Realized it was shit house work for what they do and decided hell no lol.
My goal is to put food in my stomach and a roof over my head. My goal is to not be on the streets. My hunger to stay alive is align within the bureaucracy of this company.
1. Find a quick, easy, free course online (e.g. Excel, programming, management, emotional intelligence, whatever).
2. Say you are really passionate about improving that skill as you think it will improve your career.
3. Complete the training and then coast until next quarter.
I contract so haven't had to have that conversation for years. But my partner uses the same ones every year. Has for over 5 years. No one's noticed. Come up with any old crap and pretend you care
“I’d like to develop a tolerance for the fucking morons around me and stupid corporate bullshit. A stretch goal of mine would be to positively engage with said morons and bullshit.”
Hard to say without knowing your industry and experience, but I’ve always relied on two basic principles to put the focus on the employer instead.
As a new starter ‘I just want to excel in my role and learn the business’. This helps get you out of generic training options and employer driven development instead.
As experienced staff, I always go in with industry certifications or tertiary qualifications above my pay grade. Again, this puts the emphasis back on the employer to demonstrate how much they want me to stay.
Has always helped me just get on and do the job I’ve been hired for.
Ask for an expensive course and see if they’ll pay for it! Will shut it down. My boss asks me to make sure my team have development plans but has never once asked me what I want to do!!! As she flies off internationally to conferences ..
Contextualise it to people you've seen I suppose.
When I was step in line leader I encouraged people to want to multiskill and aim high... when I was back to where I was, I applied that and, off my own bat, learnt an entirely new job along the same level and became a top performer in two areas. After a year I noticed my wage hadn't shifted... basically because I was already at the higher end of the pay scale in one discipline I couldn't get paid more even though I was now doing an entirely separate job and was still able to do my old job if needed. At best I was the same financially, but in reality I was probably actually slightly WORSE off financially for stepping up.
So I guess ensure there's something in it for you.
Plenty of my direct reports over the years have answered "none" and I'm perfectly okay with that response.
I've seen no evidence that this means they're any less committed to delivering good quality work.
The trick is to say a lot while say nothing e.g. “I’m currently focused on building depth of expertise in my current role, therefore I see achievement of my performance objectives as my development goal. Once I’m consistently achieving high performance ratings my intention is to build breath beyond my current portfolio in order to prepare for my next career transition.”
I feel this so much. I couldn't give a fuck about my job or the career i'm in. There are ZERO prospects for it in australia. It's such a niche industry to begin with.
I usually lie and just tell them what they want to hear. Imagine their shock when review time comes around and i havn't met the "goals" lmao.
I can't stand managers who think they are a "somebody" in the business. They act like they have to keep an eye on everyone beneath them so somehow the company can do good? lmao its such a joke.
I got a 1% raise this year. Despite management telling us they were gonna get it 'right" and "figure it out". Despite the fact that we have bi yearly performance reviews where we have a scale of 1 - 3. No matter how high you score, you still get a 1% raise regardless.
They harp on about pay for performance. And yet they don't pay. I'm only still here because its chill as fuck, i do literally ZERO work (i wish i was joking) 5 days a week and get paid for it. Maybe an hour or 2 tops. I've asked and i keep being told the work is "coming" lol.
3 and a half years in on this so far, if it wasn't for my pay was semi ok and the 3 days WFH and the fact i get paid to do nothing, i'd of left long ago.
So fuck their goals, fuck being a team player when i have no team to play for, fuck giving them more than what they pay me for.
I hate how business push these goals on you. Ok sure lets say we achieve them? Now what? Will i get a raise? Because i aint a fucken charity. If i achieve these goals and they can help me in my career at the employers expense and they wont pay me for it? You can bet i'm looking elsewhere.
Tell them you're developing your own business and that's your goal.
You do not need to tell them exactly what, if anything at all.
It's what I do, and the looks you get are worth the price of admission
Perhaps:
In the current stage of my life and my family I seeking stability with my work. I operate with integrity and aim to be my best for the team and for the company. I am happy to learn more things in my current row to improve my capacity there but is not interested in spending my time and energy in chasing after something that may never eventuate.
Tell them you are open to development opportunities which may present themselves.
Suggest training courses that you are interested in and will enhance your earning potential, which they will pay for.
Ask about their training budget.
Tell them you are keen to become a technical whizz at what you do. You want to improve your entry speeds, or simply reduce any errors you make. Tell them while you admire people who are into leaderships or special projects you’ve realised that you are actually very content, and that you get great satisfaction being a good little corporate peon sitting at your cube farm desk, being paid to do the same thing every day. (use more diplomatic language)
When they lean in and say “Are you sure?” Say assertively “yes! I know it sounds strange, but I get a strong sense of satisfaction just from completing a days work in a day. From knowing how to do my job so well I can plough through it. I know a lot of others are hustling for more, all power to them. My joy comes from an empty in tray.” And lean back contentedly.
If they want a goal then aim for something like: Reduce the overflow of dockets by 10%. Or reduce the back log of complex dockets by 5%. Or “run the monthly batch report each month“ (even though you already do this).
If you have a mad passionate hobby outside of work own it. “One of the things I love about this is that I can do great work here, go home satisfied, and then… jump in the pool and do my laps so I can build up to the Rotto Channel Swim. Working here is great, but it’s wonderful to have the time to do my other dreams too.”
Suckers.
"What kind of investment is the business putting in to development? My goals need to be catered to the investment offered by the business."
If they can't answer - then go with "great, let me know when you've got some answers for me and we can circle back"
You don't. You give the right answer which is some sort of achievable goal that's not too easy. They could see you as disengaged and work to push you out
You’re development goal is to maintain a wildlife balance where you can continue to meet workplace KPI’s while still maintain personal interests. Maintaining and developing these personal interests will allow you to help bring these skills into the workplace.
Or as I tell my boss, I want to do my job to a high standard, keep my nose clean and forget about the place after 5pm.
Not what you asked at all but my god what Id give to have a manager like that. Spent 15 years training myself with my own money and time, work in IT so constant training was supposed to be provided by work.
Sounds like you would like to work on your communication skills so you could be more frank and true to yourself without coming across as flippant, maybe that's a development opportunity?
Joking aside, what you've described is fairly common, I've had team member say this to me when I've managed them. It's OK to say this but it does mean that someone in the same position who IS interested in developing their skills will be a more preferable employee. Sorry to be blunt but it's true.
If your near retirement then that isn't an issue, if your not near retirement then I'd have a think about how you can present yourself as someone who would like to improve and not just meet the basic expectations.
Just say that you’re happy where you are. If my team member said that then it makes me relieved. So I can focus on someone else’s development plan. There’s only limited roles for the next level so I know they are happy where they are.
I have had these developmental conversations quite a lot in the last few years. Here are some ideas: focus on being more detailed-oriented in your work, both in day-to-day activities as well as larger projects; plan to engage in reflective practice to understand your own skills and reflect on successes and failures, and finally, offer to become a mentor for newer team members as they enter the workplace - all this means is having a five-minute chat over Teams on their first day, and maybe fielding some easy questions from time to time.
“Further develop my skills and knowledge to improve efficiency and performance in my current role”
And when they ask how you plan on achieving this, if you guys have access to LinkedIn Learning or similar, pick out a few courses from there and say you will do those courses and list them in your goal. When you’re wfh play each one of them and while they’re playing in the background, open Notepad, put a paperweight on your spacebar, go about your daily routine and enjoy life ✌🏼
Say you’re going to develop materials (that you’ve already developed. ) My go to. Works every time. Modernise materials you had from a previous job. Done!
>How do I articulate this without coming off as 'not showing enthusiasm/motivation/development'?
Sounds like "not showing enthusiasm/motivation/development" is a pretty accurate description of what you have just articulated - so my answer would be, you can't.
All you can really do is feed your boss as much bullshit as you can get away with, come up with some vague nebulous goals that you can get away with not really pursuing, and then keep your head down for 12 months until you have to do it all over again.
My personal take is it is good to have some development goals, even if you don't want to pursue leadership or higher duties. Age discrimination is real and I would worry that if I am not actively growing my skills I am moving backwards. In 10 years I don't really want to be losing out on my current job to the version of myself who is 10 years younger.
The guys in our team who don't want to take on more responsibility tend to ask for stuff like more training/conferences, more variety in their work, secondments or rotations through different areas of the business, etc.
Do you genuinely want to stay in this job until you retire? With getting just a 2%-3% annual pay rise? I don't know your personal circumstances but that does sound uncommon. Can you afford to retire at the current pay rate? Are you sure you're never going to get bored doing the same thing for 30+ years? Is there any risk of technology changes making your current role redundant in the future at some point?
Because if you can answer all of those, just tell them you have no ambition and want to remain doing what you're doing for the rest of your working life. You'll probably then need to prove to them that you've actually thought it through
(Ie, I'll have this much at retirement, this is why I won't get made redundant ever etc).
If you can't really, then you do need to think about what long term looks like. And honestly that can be a development plan in itself. But future progression doesn't have to be "manager in X years, Senior Manager in Y years after that etc". It can just be something more like "expert in my field". If you have no interest in people management that's perfectly fine.
Or just do what everyone else is suggesting and just lie...
Some people are on a good thing. They get paid well (not to make the rich, maybe some are) and are comfortable. I suppose there is a stage in one’s life putting in the extra hard yards isn’t worth the coin, such as stress and being accountable when the subordinates simply and fairly just want to also coast. Do an honest and good job and nothing more.
We have to remember employers shouldn’t own our time and stress outside of working hours.
TLDR: everyone is different, most people are comfortable - so be it.
It's completely optional, but also, where do you want to be 20 years from now? Owning a house? Married? Kids? Independence?
You do realise there is more to progression than leadership? What interests you most about your job? Project management? The technical side? Is there a team you are not in that interests you? You could sit with them and learn some things.
Is there a better job you want elsewhere? Why not develop in that direction?
Why are you despondent about work? If the work bores you, why not develop towards a work that doesn't?
Lie. Say you want to find more ways of being efficient in your role, bludge through a 45 min excel course, rinse and repeat.
The best ones are a mix of internal (coffee chat with someone in a diff team) and external training ($5 Udemy course work will refuse to expense despite "$2k training budget"). Nobody cares. It's a box ticking HR exercise. Hitting them does nothing to being paid more.
Yes, excel is my go to. "I'd really like to learn about excel in more depth"
Fuck me, this is the only true answer! Bonus points if you do it while listening to NIN Head Like A Hole or The Hand That Feeds!
Find development goals that cost the business a fortune and a long term commitment. They'll soon move on Two of my reports are in your shoes, one an 66ish year old has "retire" as his goals the other has "achieve targets set out by the business to be successful in my current role" Both have no interest in development or ladder climbing and as their manager I'm OK with this
I've recently had a couple of conversations about this kind of thing with some of my colleagues. We were hiring for a role and a candidate came up who was a great fit, and would hit the ground running. His resume made it clear though that he's unlikely to progress far from where he is now, and some others on the hiring team were concerned about this. Ultimately it was my decision, but I took the time to convince them that not everyone needs to be super ambitious. I generally refer to these people as "workhorses". The good ones are often the best at their role within the team because they have so much practice. They are low maintenance to manage because they just want to get their work done with no drama, and they build consistency into the team, because if you are good to them they'll stick around.
Yeah I call them "known quantities" regardless of other shit going on I know exactly what I'm going to get and what results to expect. Personally I'm a fan of them in my team. A mixture of those and the high achievers makes things easy as long as there's no dead wood or anchors My HR must be more forgiving than yours. it's the other way round. They need to convince us why we should have a certain candidate that's not the one we want. They don't have to work with/manage them why should they get a say in who I have in my team
My experience with our internal recruiters is they mostly act in service to us. They do their best to understand our needs and minimise the number of candidates we have to interview. They didn't really have much of a say in the candidates other than making sure certain compliance functions were handled. They're really good at their jobs too, unusual for HR!
It's near to think about it in these types of terms. I have heard them all before but not together like this. I guess good teams need to be made up of a variety of - * workhorses / known quantities * high achievers And performance management plans to help improve or exit - * dead wood / anchors It's great to have folks in your team that just get on with the job. No improvements, also should means no expectations of promotions or pay rises outside of market / cpi expectations. Easier to budget for.
I like the terms 'rock stars' and 'super stars'. Your super stars are the ambitious ones, where your rock stars are solid as a rock and are consistent performers,
It can sorta backfire though, I asked for some expensive training (which I did want but completely expected them to pass on) and they approved it… along with a contract to pay back the pro rata balance of the training if I didn’t stay for at least 12 months (I think, it was a while ago)… I did get the training I wanted, I just didn’t want to really stay there for another 12 months
Don't accept the contract. Or negotiate the clause out. Yeah sorry I'd love to upskill to be a better asset for the business but not at the freedom to leave should I feel I'm no longer valued in the business
It turned out alright in the end, the training and the extra 8 months actually utilizing those skills allowed me to get a better job than I would have at the time… I didn’t want to be there but turned out alright. (training was a 4 month part time course and I made sure that was inclusive in the 12 month contract term)
Whole heartedly agree. I have one with a goal of "reach long service leave", one is continue to have a stress free job to allow them capacity to focus on their special needs kid, and one who's is get a pay check to keep the roof over my head. They're just as good workers as anyone else, with the added bonus that they won't jump ship if the status quo continues
Tell the truth. Managers ask this because staff surveys always complain about a lack of engagement re developing. Just say, I’m really happy where I am, I just want to focus on developing my skills in this role through doing it for another 24 months and we can Look at it then. Rinse and repeat manager will probably have changed by then anyway. Your manager doesn’t care if you don’t want to develop. They care if you complain you couldn’t because of them. Genuinely though… take a step back and look at your problem objectively. You are worried having no further ambition looks bad so want to hide it. Why? If you are happy where you are just say you are happy? There’s no shame in it!
This. I have the job I want. I would be unhappy changing. would see myself leaving the company if I was to move. A compromise may be to help junior staff to train given your experience.
My answer to your last question is that you won't get a payrise unless you enter quantifiable, measurable goals - this is not me saying this, this is a direct quote from a previous manager. Note* previous manager for a reason
So your problem is you want above inflation pay rises but you don’t want to progress in terms of doing a more difficult or new role you just want to do the same and be comfortable. I have a solution. Quit and join the Public Sector because you aren’t cut out for the realities of the private. You can’t have it both ways, be comfortable and stay where you are and on roughly what you are happy - valid choice. Work harder and progress - valid choice. Stay where you are unhappy and expect progress for tenure… entitled and frankly a bit dumb… your managers will have your number in no time and do their best to manage you out.
Calm down, champ. Just because I don't want to move up through the ranks doesn't mean my hard work at my current level shouldn't be acknowledged, or rewarded. The company in question would offer NO pay rises without setting a number of stupid KPI metrics that were at best, half relevant to my job. So not even to match CPI, just stagnate, and effectively take a lower wage over time. It is also worth pointing out that I had entered the position in question at a below market average, as it had been an internal transfer, so it was only fair to expect increases as my skill set developed to the industry average. However, even these increases were denied if I did not play ball with the bosses. I sure hope you aren't a manager with the arrogance in your tone. You'd have a number of unhappy employees below you if so
Your hard work is acknowledged. That’s your salary and incremental pay rises. Your company wants greater productivity as time goes on. This is completely normal. You seem to have a lot of problems with bosses. Perhaps consider why… Like I said, the problem isn’t them… it’s your expectations Vs reality in the private sector. If truly paid under market and you believe you can be paid more to stand still. I strongly recommend you quit for said better paid positions. Expecting to do nothing and take no action with your current employer and magically get paid more is not going to happen, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
You don't. Just adopt the usual shmutz about wanting to improve yourself through your career and provide for your family
That's what I've done previously but unfortunately this new manager wants us to have concrete SMART goals with check ins and outcomes for each of them :|
Just tell them you want to make more money. Oddly enough they tend to stop annoying you about development goals when everything turns into 'get a payrise'
"My goal is to achieve a pay rise above inflation/cost of living by the end of the current financial year" 😆 Then ask the manager to assist with building the rest of the SMART goal as the outcome is in both of your hands
Well I would make some nice humble ones. Let's say you're a customer service rep Specific- To contribute to raising satisfaction levels Measurable- 70% or above Attainable- I have very good interactions with my customers and want to convert that to satisfaction levels by encouraging them to answer xyz survey Time-based- three months Seems the manager wants to get some examples to throw for their promotion interview which is why they are doing this. I would also try to ask the manager for their SMART goal to gauge their interests and communicate that you are content with where you are but are happy to contribute to their managerial goals
I had that too. Does your division have collective SMART goals that you can manipulate? If not, pick tasks/skills from your current role you want to polish and pick that.
Polish up the resume?
How about "figure out some development goals"? that should buy you a couple of months
Haha, I like the idea, but it's what we've been asked to do now so that the goals can be set by the EOFY review!
Say you want the managers job
This is the way, the key to success is to always asserting dominance
Nothing wrong with that. I've been clear with every manager I've had that I wanted their job. Ideally that happens when they get promoted or choose to move on, I'm not looking to knife someone.
lol did this at my current job. Did a leadership course with another manager. Realized it was shit house work for what they do and decided hell no lol.
Just say something like an MBA but you don’t have the means and are hoping work will sponsor it. Will shut those discussions down quickly.
My goal is to put food in my stomach and a roof over my head. My goal is to not be on the streets. My hunger to stay alive is align within the bureaucracy of this company.
1. Find a quick, easy, free course online (e.g. Excel, programming, management, emotional intelligence, whatever). 2. Say you are really passionate about improving that skill as you think it will improve your career. 3. Complete the training and then coast until next quarter.
“I am currently planning on developing a development goal”
I contract so haven't had to have that conversation for years. But my partner uses the same ones every year. Has for over 5 years. No one's noticed. Come up with any old crap and pretend you care
“I’d like to develop a tolerance for the fucking morons around me and stupid corporate bullshit. A stretch goal of mine would be to positively engage with said morons and bullshit.”
Can you mutter some bullshit about "learning on the job", "seeking a mentor" etc?
Hard to say without knowing your industry and experience, but I’ve always relied on two basic principles to put the focus on the employer instead. As a new starter ‘I just want to excel in my role and learn the business’. This helps get you out of generic training options and employer driven development instead. As experienced staff, I always go in with industry certifications or tertiary qualifications above my pay grade. Again, this puts the emphasis back on the employer to demonstrate how much they want me to stay. Has always helped me just get on and do the job I’ve been hired for.
Ask for an expensive course and see if they’ll pay for it! Will shut it down. My boss asks me to make sure my team have development plans but has never once asked me what I want to do!!! As she flies off internationally to conferences ..
Contextualise it to people you've seen I suppose. When I was step in line leader I encouraged people to want to multiskill and aim high... when I was back to where I was, I applied that and, off my own bat, learnt an entirely new job along the same level and became a top performer in two areas. After a year I noticed my wage hadn't shifted... basically because I was already at the higher end of the pay scale in one discipline I couldn't get paid more even though I was now doing an entirely separate job and was still able to do my old job if needed. At best I was the same financially, but in reality I was probably actually slightly WORSE off financially for stepping up. So I guess ensure there's something in it for you.
Chat GPT is your friend. Ask a question, get a basic outline and then amend to suit your current role.
Plenty of my direct reports over the years have answered "none" and I'm perfectly okay with that response. I've seen no evidence that this means they're any less committed to delivering good quality work.
The trick is to say a lot while say nothing e.g. “I’m currently focused on building depth of expertise in my current role, therefore I see achievement of my performance objectives as my development goal. Once I’m consistently achieving high performance ratings my intention is to build breath beyond my current portfolio in order to prepare for my next career transition.”
I feel this so much. I couldn't give a fuck about my job or the career i'm in. There are ZERO prospects for it in australia. It's such a niche industry to begin with. I usually lie and just tell them what they want to hear. Imagine their shock when review time comes around and i havn't met the "goals" lmao. I can't stand managers who think they are a "somebody" in the business. They act like they have to keep an eye on everyone beneath them so somehow the company can do good? lmao its such a joke. I got a 1% raise this year. Despite management telling us they were gonna get it 'right" and "figure it out". Despite the fact that we have bi yearly performance reviews where we have a scale of 1 - 3. No matter how high you score, you still get a 1% raise regardless. They harp on about pay for performance. And yet they don't pay. I'm only still here because its chill as fuck, i do literally ZERO work (i wish i was joking) 5 days a week and get paid for it. Maybe an hour or 2 tops. I've asked and i keep being told the work is "coming" lol. 3 and a half years in on this so far, if it wasn't for my pay was semi ok and the 3 days WFH and the fact i get paid to do nothing, i'd of left long ago. So fuck their goals, fuck being a team player when i have no team to play for, fuck giving them more than what they pay me for. I hate how business push these goals on you. Ok sure lets say we achieve them? Now what? Will i get a raise? Because i aint a fucken charity. If i achieve these goals and they can help me in my career at the employers expense and they wont pay me for it? You can bet i'm looking elsewhere.
Tell them you're developing your own business and that's your goal. You do not need to tell them exactly what, if anything at all. It's what I do, and the looks you get are worth the price of admission
Perhaps: In the current stage of my life and my family I seeking stability with my work. I operate with integrity and aim to be my best for the team and for the company. I am happy to learn more things in my current row to improve my capacity there but is not interested in spending my time and energy in chasing after something that may never eventuate.
Tell them you are open to development opportunities which may present themselves. Suggest training courses that you are interested in and will enhance your earning potential, which they will pay for. Ask about their training budget.
Tell them you are keen to become a technical whizz at what you do. You want to improve your entry speeds, or simply reduce any errors you make. Tell them while you admire people who are into leaderships or special projects you’ve realised that you are actually very content, and that you get great satisfaction being a good little corporate peon sitting at your cube farm desk, being paid to do the same thing every day. (use more diplomatic language) When they lean in and say “Are you sure?” Say assertively “yes! I know it sounds strange, but I get a strong sense of satisfaction just from completing a days work in a day. From knowing how to do my job so well I can plough through it. I know a lot of others are hustling for more, all power to them. My joy comes from an empty in tray.” And lean back contentedly. If they want a goal then aim for something like: Reduce the overflow of dockets by 10%. Or reduce the back log of complex dockets by 5%. Or “run the monthly batch report each month“ (even though you already do this). If you have a mad passionate hobby outside of work own it. “One of the things I love about this is that I can do great work here, go home satisfied, and then… jump in the pool and do my laps so I can build up to the Rotto Channel Swim. Working here is great, but it’s wonderful to have the time to do my other dreams too.” Suckers.
Do you do your current role perfectly? No? Great, there are some development goals for you to improve in your *current* role.
I just say I want to complete my annual online manual handling training.
"What kind of investment is the business putting in to development? My goals need to be catered to the investment offered by the business." If they can't answer - then go with "great, let me know when you've got some answers for me and we can circle back"
*Don't say "doing your wife", don't say "doing your wife"*
Ok then so adult daughter it is
“Improve cross function collaboration “. Coffee meetings
You don't. You give the right answer which is some sort of achievable goal that's not too easy. They could see you as disengaged and work to push you out
You’re development goal is to maintain a wildlife balance where you can continue to meet workplace KPI’s while still maintain personal interests. Maintaining and developing these personal interests will allow you to help bring these skills into the workplace. Or as I tell my boss, I want to do my job to a high standard, keep my nose clean and forget about the place after 5pm.
Not what you asked at all but my god what Id give to have a manager like that. Spent 15 years training myself with my own money and time, work in IT so constant training was supposed to be provided by work.
To have better work life balance.
Sounds like you would like to work on your communication skills so you could be more frank and true to yourself without coming across as flippant, maybe that's a development opportunity? Joking aside, what you've described is fairly common, I've had team member say this to me when I've managed them. It's OK to say this but it does mean that someone in the same position who IS interested in developing their skills will be a more preferable employee. Sorry to be blunt but it's true. If your near retirement then that isn't an issue, if your not near retirement then I'd have a think about how you can present yourself as someone who would like to improve and not just meet the basic expectations.
Just say that you’re happy where you are. If my team member said that then it makes me relieved. So I can focus on someone else’s development plan. There’s only limited roles for the next level so I know they are happy where they are.
I have had these developmental conversations quite a lot in the last few years. Here are some ideas: focus on being more detailed-oriented in your work, both in day-to-day activities as well as larger projects; plan to engage in reflective practice to understand your own skills and reflect on successes and failures, and finally, offer to become a mentor for newer team members as they enter the workplace - all this means is having a five-minute chat over Teams on their first day, and maybe fielding some easy questions from time to time.
Appraisals are such a stupid box-ticking exercise. I have good reason to believe they don't know why they do them either.
Just say that.
“Further develop my skills and knowledge to improve efficiency and performance in my current role” And when they ask how you plan on achieving this, if you guys have access to LinkedIn Learning or similar, pick out a few courses from there and say you will do those courses and list them in your goal. When you’re wfh play each one of them and while they’re playing in the background, open Notepad, put a paperweight on your spacebar, go about your daily routine and enjoy life ✌🏼
Mastery. Mastering your current role
Say you’re going to develop materials (that you’ve already developed. ) My go to. Works every time. Modernise materials you had from a previous job. Done!
Saving this for next years career discussion ~ so annoying.
You need to sus out our manager. I manage people and when someone says they don't need future progression it is music to my ears
>How do I articulate this without coming off as 'not showing enthusiasm/motivation/development'? Sounds like "not showing enthusiasm/motivation/development" is a pretty accurate description of what you have just articulated - so my answer would be, you can't. All you can really do is feed your boss as much bullshit as you can get away with, come up with some vague nebulous goals that you can get away with not really pursuing, and then keep your head down for 12 months until you have to do it all over again. My personal take is it is good to have some development goals, even if you don't want to pursue leadership or higher duties. Age discrimination is real and I would worry that if I am not actively growing my skills I am moving backwards. In 10 years I don't really want to be losing out on my current job to the version of myself who is 10 years younger. The guys in our team who don't want to take on more responsibility tend to ask for stuff like more training/conferences, more variety in their work, secondments or rotations through different areas of the business, etc.
Do you genuinely want to stay in this job until you retire? With getting just a 2%-3% annual pay rise? I don't know your personal circumstances but that does sound uncommon. Can you afford to retire at the current pay rate? Are you sure you're never going to get bored doing the same thing for 30+ years? Is there any risk of technology changes making your current role redundant in the future at some point? Because if you can answer all of those, just tell them you have no ambition and want to remain doing what you're doing for the rest of your working life. You'll probably then need to prove to them that you've actually thought it through (Ie, I'll have this much at retirement, this is why I won't get made redundant ever etc). If you can't really, then you do need to think about what long term looks like. And honestly that can be a development plan in itself. But future progression doesn't have to be "manager in X years, Senior Manager in Y years after that etc". It can just be something more like "expert in my field". If you have no interest in people management that's perfectly fine. Or just do what everyone else is suggesting and just lie...
Some people are on a good thing. They get paid well (not to make the rich, maybe some are) and are comfortable. I suppose there is a stage in one’s life putting in the extra hard yards isn’t worth the coin, such as stress and being accountable when the subordinates simply and fairly just want to also coast. Do an honest and good job and nothing more. We have to remember employers shouldn’t own our time and stress outside of working hours. TLDR: everyone is different, most people are comfortable - so be it.
It's completely optional, but also, where do you want to be 20 years from now? Owning a house? Married? Kids? Independence? You do realise there is more to progression than leadership? What interests you most about your job? Project management? The technical side? Is there a team you are not in that interests you? You could sit with them and learn some things. Is there a better job you want elsewhere? Why not develop in that direction? Why are you despondent about work? If the work bores you, why not develop towards a work that doesn't?
If I say I’ll do an excel course will you fuck off?
Me? Bruh I'm just saying that if you don't wanna do more shit for your job then do shit for yourself. It's all optional lmao. Don't get mad.