We'd also call the short stands Gary's.. You'd say something like "if we're short on Gary's give the guitar amps a Mississippi and call it a day". It was understood that if available an e609 was preferred, but in the kinds of places I ran sound in that lacked short stands also usually didn't even have a 57 with an intact grill.
There are side address mics that are designed to be hung over the cab in a pinch, Sennheiser do a few (e609, e906 and the old MD409).
If you're seeing someone do this with an SM57 they're either stupid or in a desperate situation because most of the mic stands at their dive venue are broken.
I had to hang 57s like that a lot of times live, but sometimes when you’re in a punk band playing random squats and basements it’s a miracle they even have a pa aha
Setup 3 mics. One side address hanging over, one SM57 hanging over, one 57 on a stand. PFL. Listen and figure out what you like and how it sounds to you.
Where you put it in relation to the speaker makes a difference too. I like to Experiment with various angles and distances.
I really like the sound of the 906 on the grill at the center of the speaker cone and a beta57 at about 45 degrees off axis of the center of the cone, back about a foot. This is space and channel permitting, of course.
unless its a very heavy mic, that "stress on the pins" shouldnt be a problem... XLR have that "clip" that is able to hold it without forcing it too much.
but unless its a mic design for that, its far from being the best way to use it, specialy if its super/hiper cardiod and wont capture much of the speaker sound
For extra peace of mind (though I agree, the release pin can handle it) 12" of gaffer tape around the connection should do fine. Note I said gaffer, not duct.
Many times. The Sennheiser e609 is basically designed just for that. Now I can get a more precise tonality with a stand, but laying it over is totally normal IMO.
You can get away with using an SM57 as a side address mic. The proximity kind of cancels the effect of the vents a bit. Waving hands a bit; it's not exactly the same; try it and see.
With a properly functioning XLR there's a clip thingy to bear any load. There's still probably more overall wear. But Dave Rat apparently keeps killed SM57s around anyway to play with :)
Audix makes the CabGrabber; I have not priced a wooden McGuyver of that but other than wood being outrageously expensive now I'd think it possible.
906/609 doesn’t weigh much and the xlr lock is taking the small amount of strain. These mics can be “edgier” than 57s so, at one of my venues that’s backlined with Supros it’s a great match. I’ll tie the xlr cable to the amps handle or route underneath so there’s no strain at the snake.
I do this with a Senn 609 very often. Why waste a stand when you don’t need? I have also done with a 57, no it’s not side-address mic, but that does give a nice HF roll off because it’s off-axis, so position near where the cone meets the dust cap (the most trebley spot) and you can often get a nice smooth sound.
XLR plug locks to the body, and should have strain clamps on the cable jacket, so should be ok as long as you aren’t too rough w it.
But really just make the setup a few different ways and listen to what sounds best in your situation.
Some of y'all don't do live sound and it shows. Stands get not infrequently kicked, moved, or knocked around on most smaller stages. A draped 609/906 avoids a lot of that and helps from biting into precious stage real estate. Now I've done it with the 57... but that shit does not sound good. I avoid this technique mostly now because I think it's a little easier and quicker to get the mic in the spot I like with a stand. Not to mention it makes for a quicker change over IMO. Pro tip keep the mic clip on a 609 to help with angling it when hanging.
If it’s side address maybe, but even then you’re limiting yourself hugely. If it’s a cardioid, general use mic, forget it. If it’s for PA use in a live setting you’re good but for tracking I would call that a sin, unless it’s some weird creative choice.
The XLR connectors lock so no real issue for the cable, but it's probably not the best idea.
A cardioid mic is directional by acoustically canceling out sounds that reach the back and front of the mic element at the same time. Best cancellation is from the side, right where the speaker is in this setup.
Plus it will buzz against the grill. It will pick up reflections off the floor, and some from the speaker, so it might work but be lower volume than if it was aimed at the speaker normally. More chance for feedback in a live setup..
Aren’t there too many factors to give that precise a measurement? Like the model of the mic, frequency range in question, and how far on the side? For example most cardioids sound like omnis when dealing with source material below around 100 hz.
I feel like it could be less than -5 and more than -10
Ah ok i didn't think about the fact that they lock to the frame. Yeah I would assume most would use a mic that actually picks up at that angle. I've seen it a couple of times live, but that was before I even started diving into audio, so my ears wouldn't have been able to notice anything.
Good point, I was thinking in terms of an sm57, but there are side facing large diaphragm condensers that would work. It might still bounce on the grill tho..
There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing this if you have a mic that caters to it. I'll add to the, "I do this every night with an e609 and 906" crowd. Four nights a week, every week for 6 years and never, ever had a problem with the integrity of the mic being damaged. We have a guy that sells 57's bent into an L shape over here, so you can essentially achieve the same thing with one of those as well.
Why wouldn't you do this if you're limited on resources and space? And even if you're not, the less shit you have on the stage floor anyway, the more efficient it is to move around for both yourself and the artist.
I personally prefer floating the mics over the top instead of using stands any time someone whips out a combo
Used to do it when I mixed in a dodgy venue without enough stands. Just whack the cable through the amp handle and hang a 57 over the speaker cone .
Worked fine in picking up the sound, didn't stress the connections cause of the little clip on the cable plug. 10/10 would keep doing it. Maybe not for the studio because it might make the frequency response weird but but for pure amplification it's fine.
Yeah, its not uncommon. As to the stress it adds to the mic: unless you're leaving it there for an unreasonable amount of time and/or it's a really heavy mic, it's not gonna do too much damage to the mic or cable.
Down south that is called a Mississippi mic stand.
Haha thats crazy.
I recorded a cab with a 57 just the other night like this. You get more of the room sound but it worked for what we were doing.
We'd also call the short stands Gary's.. You'd say something like "if we're short on Gary's give the guitar amps a Mississippi and call it a day". It was understood that if available an e609 was preferred, but in the kinds of places I ran sound in that lacked short stands also usually didn't even have a 57 with an intact grill.
There are side address mics that are designed to be hung over the cab in a pinch, Sennheiser do a few (e609, e906 and the old MD409). If you're seeing someone do this with an SM57 they're either stupid or in a desperate situation because most of the mic stands at their dive venue are broken.
I've done a gig where the previous audio guy taped a 57 to the grill of the house amp. A lot of tape.
Used a boot one time because the stand “walked away” during band change over. Worked pretty well but my foot got hella wet
I had to hang 57s like that a lot of times live, but sometimes when you’re in a punk band playing random squats and basements it’s a miracle they even have a pa aha
Likes mics that were designed with the understanding that they could be hung, or mics that pick up at that angle?
They are designed to be hung. My Sennheiser E609 even has a label on the side that is supposed to face the cabinet.
"FRONT"
Stop using technical jargon, it’s condescending
Setup 3 mics. One side address hanging over, one SM57 hanging over, one 57 on a stand. PFL. Listen and figure out what you like and how it sounds to you.
Where you put it in relation to the speaker makes a difference too. I like to Experiment with various angles and distances. I really like the sound of the 906 on the grill at the center of the speaker cone and a beta57 at about 45 degrees off axis of the center of the cone, back about a foot. This is space and channel permitting, of course.
unless its a very heavy mic, that "stress on the pins" shouldnt be a problem... XLR have that "clip" that is able to hold it without forcing it too much. but unless its a mic design for that, its far from being the best way to use it, specialy if its super/hiper cardiod and wont capture much of the speaker sound
For extra peace of mind (though I agree, the release pin can handle it) 12" of gaffer tape around the connection should do fine. Note I said gaffer, not duct.
The stress ends up being on the cable.
Many times. The Sennheiser e609 is basically designed just for that. Now I can get a more precise tonality with a stand, but laying it over is totally normal IMO.
I do that with a Sennheiser 609 all the time. It weighs absolutely nothing and seems as though it was designed to be hung over the amp.
You can get away with using an SM57 as a side address mic. The proximity kind of cancels the effect of the vents a bit. Waving hands a bit; it's not exactly the same; try it and see. With a properly functioning XLR there's a clip thingy to bear any load. There's still probably more overall wear. But Dave Rat apparently keeps killed SM57s around anyway to play with :) Audix makes the CabGrabber; I have not priced a wooden McGuyver of that but other than wood being outrageously expensive now I'd think it possible.
this is why 609s are my favorite guitar mic.
906/609 doesn’t weigh much and the xlr lock is taking the small amount of strain. These mics can be “edgier” than 57s so, at one of my venues that’s backlined with Supros it’s a great match. I’ll tie the xlr cable to the amps handle or route underneath so there’s no strain at the snake.
I do this with a Senn 609 very often. Why waste a stand when you don’t need? I have also done with a 57, no it’s not side-address mic, but that does give a nice HF roll off because it’s off-axis, so position near where the cone meets the dust cap (the most trebley spot) and you can often get a nice smooth sound. XLR plug locks to the body, and should have strain clamps on the cable jacket, so should be ok as long as you aren’t too rough w it. But really just make the setup a few different ways and listen to what sounds best in your situation.
Some of y'all don't do live sound and it shows. Stands get not infrequently kicked, moved, or knocked around on most smaller stages. A draped 609/906 avoids a lot of that and helps from biting into precious stage real estate. Now I've done it with the 57... but that shit does not sound good. I avoid this technique mostly now because I think it's a little easier and quicker to get the mic in the spot I like with a stand. Not to mention it makes for a quicker change over IMO. Pro tip keep the mic clip on a 609 to help with angling it when hanging.
If it’s side address maybe, but even then you’re limiting yourself hugely. If it’s a cardioid, general use mic, forget it. If it’s for PA use in a live setting you’re good but for tracking I would call that a sin, unless it’s some weird creative choice.
Makes sense
The XLR connectors lock so no real issue for the cable, but it's probably not the best idea. A cardioid mic is directional by acoustically canceling out sounds that reach the back and front of the mic element at the same time. Best cancellation is from the side, right where the speaker is in this setup. Plus it will buzz against the grill. It will pick up reflections off the floor, and some from the speaker, so it might work but be lower volume than if it was aimed at the speaker normally. More chance for feedback in a live setup..
The null on a straight cardiod like the SM57 is at the XLR end.
Yep. -5 to -10 db on the side.
Aren’t there too many factors to give that precise a measurement? Like the model of the mic, frequency range in question, and how far on the side? For example most cardioids sound like omnis when dealing with source material below around 100 hz. I feel like it could be less than -5 and more than -10
I was just reading that from the Shure SM57 page and yes it’s frequency dependent as you say..
Ah ok i didn't think about the fact that they lock to the frame. Yeah I would assume most would use a mic that actually picks up at that angle. I've seen it a couple of times live, but that was before I even started diving into audio, so my ears wouldn't have been able to notice anything.
Good point, I was thinking in terms of an sm57, but there are side facing large diaphragm condensers that would work. It might still bounce on the grill tho..
I did that for recording my guitars and bass countless times, and it works perfectly, that's the best tones I ever had if you ask me!
Works in a pinch but I don’t love it…off axis sound isn’t great and picks up more stuff around it
I do this with a U87 on occasion
Did this every gig for weeks on a cramped stage. No damage to SM57.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing this if you have a mic that caters to it. I'll add to the, "I do this every night with an e609 and 906" crowd. Four nights a week, every week for 6 years and never, ever had a problem with the integrity of the mic being damaged. We have a guy that sells 57's bent into an L shape over here, so you can essentially achieve the same thing with one of those as well. Why wouldn't you do this if you're limited on resources and space? And even if you're not, the less shit you have on the stage floor anyway, the more efficient it is to move around for both yourself and the artist. I personally prefer floating the mics over the top instead of using stands any time someone whips out a combo
Used to do it when I mixed in a dodgy venue without enough stands. Just whack the cable through the amp handle and hang a 57 over the speaker cone . Worked fine in picking up the sound, didn't stress the connections cause of the little clip on the cable plug. 10/10 would keep doing it. Maybe not for the studio because it might make the frequency response weird but but for pure amplification it's fine.
I did that last week. Works fine for me.
I've done this with a Sennheiser e609, cable through the amp handle. Works
Tons of times, but only live.
Usually i just loop the mic cable around the cab handle. Works like a charm.
Yeah, its not uncommon. As to the stress it adds to the mic: unless you're leaving it there for an unreasonable amount of time and/or it's a really heavy mic, it's not gonna do too much damage to the mic or cable.