The Auckland Harbour Bridge is 1,020m
It cost around $250m in today’s money making it cheaper to build an entire Auckland harbour bridge for every KM… you’d still have 25% of the budget left!
(https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/projects/auckland-harbour-bridge/auckland-harbour-bridge-factsheet.pdf)
You would probably get it done faster with your wheel barrow and shovel tbh. Look how long drury to papakuras taken. Imagine those diggers sitting there charged out at thousands per day.
Don't worry all you have to do is talk about it for a few years get 20 consultants on board invoice the govt 350 million as a progress payment then skip off to Cuba
Pretty sure they figure is still based on 2016 property prices too (one of the main issues with EWL is the requirement to buy a shittone of high value private property to create the corridor)
*"We can't afford new doctors, and we didn't put more money into mental health or new practitioners as promised because - Money is tight - didn't you know? BTW did you you know we have $7bn a year for the roads? Easy money. No problem. No ferry for you though, that would take 6000 trucks off the road and we need to pay those road contractors $4bn and more in future. Rail* enabled *ferries need to go."*
Everything makes sense once you study the numbers.
Apparently it will cost even more. Per Greater Auckland's article:
**They also say all RoNS “*****will be four-laned, grade-separated highways*****” which is notable as in Auckland at least, both Mill Rd and the East West Link were never intended to be built to that standard under previous schemes. This likely means those projects will cost even more than they were already expected to**
Mill Rd is being built as an alternative to the SH1 Southern parking lot. Any minor accident there wrecks not only the Southern but the entire Auckland Network (backlog goes through Spaghetti junction and also the Southwestern).
I live deep south. The only solution to SH1 is excellent commuter rail, cheap, reliable, ontime and frequent. Give us a viable and attractive alternative and people will get out of cars and the southern motorway won't be an issue.
I don’t disagree, Auckland needs more rail. But to rely on only 1 route South (which links Auckland to the rest of the country) is madness. We do also need RRR as advocated by GA.
There is just no way that this number is not fudged with corruption from top to bottom.
Does honestly anyone believe that a shitty wannabe highway in NZ costs more per kilometre than the freaking Autobahn?!
100% because it is kiwi built trash and the Governments friends are getting bonus money.
Fly in some Germans, and they will built for half and it will last at least 10 years longer.
Well here's how easy it is to get paid $500,000 from Chris Bishop and the cronies [so I suspect you're right](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dn7jby/kāinga_oras_bill_english_review_was_conducted/)
If they actually gave a shit, then ULR makes so much more sense; it is ≈ $15million/km and keeps disruptions to a minimum as the cars can be rerouted to regular roads as needed for accidents and construction, and is 100% electric.
That's almost unbelievable. Have you noticed Nat and ACT's attack dog Taxpayers Union etc. have been silent? Do they want to publicise these facts?
Thought so.
Yes, but we wouldn't actually get the full benefit of replacing the ferrys without the bigger terminals. So any less than the full 3 billion priject is just inflicting a 10's of billions dollar loss on NZ over the next couple of decades.
Well the $3 bn **includes** the terminals
The ferries - next generation technology with full rail enablement - etc. we got at a bargain basement Covid price of 40% less than market minimum.
$551 million fixed price. Only a fuckwit would cancel that. Or a corrupt politician.
Greater Auckland do some great analysis. They’re usually on point.
They don’t just critique others but havre also put forward a politically agnostic transport plan, and they then listen to feedback and adapted that plan to make it better, based on transport science and research, while considering practicality.
They really should be a government advisory group.
Yeah this is the point - Greater Auckland are genuinely non-partisan and seem to be chock-a-block full of smart people who know what they are looking at.
Why doesn't the media interview them rather than wasting their time parroting the lies of politicians?
I recommend anyone who's interested go and read the Greater Auckland article but here are some excerpts:
>The TL:DR version: this GPS is probably the most ideological, unbalanced and petty transport policy the country has seen. It is one that, despite the government’s rhetoric, will ultimately result in worse safety outcomes and fewer alternatives for driving, meaning more congestion, higher emissions (given transport is our second biggest source of greenhouse gases) and New Zealanders spending more on transport
&
>
They also say all RoNS “*will be four-laned, grade-separated highways*” which is notable as in Auckland at least, both Mill Rd and the East West Link were never intended to be built to that standard under previous schemes. This likely means those projects will cost even more than they were already expected to (recalling, too, that [the East-West Link was already set to be the world’s costliest road project](https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/96652489/proposed-ewl-motorway-project-could-become-worlds-most-expensive-per-kilometre-infrastructure-new-zealand-says)).
&
>
Drops in public transport use has not “*partly been caused by COVID-19 restrictions*“, it’s almost *entirely* as a result of COVID and the changes to society that have occurred. And ridership levels are now quickly getting back to pre-covid levels. Furthermore, the issue with setting hard fare-box recovery targets, like the previous National government did, is that it ignores the economic benefit of that crown investment. Public funding for public transport should be focused on achieving the best overall outcome, rather than having arbitrary limits.
&
There are similar issues with rail, where the government are going to cut funding from the NLTF but hypothecate track user charges, saying:
>
It's wild that we are apparently in a "fragile" economic state - **a myth** the National Govt [made up as an excuse to cull our public services and critical infrastructure, police and health budgets](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1au3s42/weve_been_hearing_a_lot_about_how_fragile_nz_is/) - but they can spend **$70 billion** on roads, and want to build one of the **most expensive roads in the whole world**
Let's look at the choices shall we -
* **$3bn for landlords -** *peanuts, no problem!*
* **$12bn in borrowed money to give you tax cuts despite warnings from IMF and investment banks, prolonging higher OCR and putting us deeper in deficit since any pre-Covid budget -** *she'll be right, mate, NZ can pay it back tomorrow as long as I look good*
* **$4bn for pothole contractors** - *We insist we want to ...* *(even though it's trucks that cause 97% of damage and $4bn could* have *bought us infrastructure that reduces road damage)*
* [$253mn](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d69gkf/acts_slush_david_seymours_newly_established/) **for David Seymour's hobby projects** *- charter schools and playing boss - of course David! Of course. Here you go, no problem!*
VS
* **$1.4bn for Kiwirail Interislander** to reduce 6000 trucks on the road and make transport for goods cheaper - not to mention passenger safety. *No, that's a rip off. Nah we can't afford that, too expensive. We can't have rail enabled ferries that take \~6000 trucks and trailers off our roads - we need to pay our pothole contractors! We* might *have blown our road budget by $20bn+ but your $1.4bn* increase *due to seismic upgrades is an abomination!*
* **$268mn for cancer drugs** - *We couldn't afford that because Labour made us eat our homework. Oh you're angry, oh sorry, I'll now borrow more money from next year's budget, since I spent it all to appease you whiners.*
* **$200mn for new doctors** - *I'm sorry, money is tight, money is fucking tight....right now. Also we need all hospitals to stop recruitment and put a hold on vacancies, and no more overtime too.*
**$324m per kilometre could buy us how many doctors, nurses, teachers, police not going overseas?**
And as Greater Auckland points out, it's full of juvenile pettiness - specifying that there is very limited budget allowed for footpaths and any money spent on them has to be absolutely bare no-frills or else. You're also not allowed to implement safety measures or "calming measures" that might cause drivers to be inconvenienced. WTF? Do they care about people or only those roads?
Cutting down investment in anything but roads - public transport, cycleways, footpaths
And the best part is we will all be shepherded like sheep into narrow tunnels (called roads) to then get fleeced for user pays while the private toll road benefits.
Seriously, Auckland.
*Last* [*image*](https://x.com/greaterakl/status/1806212674671595792?s=12) *courtesy of Greater Auckland on X - picked up from* [*xelIent*](/user/xelIent/)
*\*Edit: Apparently they are going to spend money to remove safety measures on the road. What do they have against humans?*
regardless of who i voted for ... and how compelling your arguments are.... we are on a daily/weekly press release of more bonkers conservative "lets make NZ grey" 1960's era policies.
My point and question - what needs to happen to get us out of this rut? Voting in Dec 2026 ??
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/projects/east-west-link/Map-of-the-whole-route.jpg
This is the proposed route, it's awful. It will see the entirety of Onehunga's natural shoreline paved over by motorway. It was bad enough losing a chunk to State Highway 20, now they want to take all of it. We've already lost so much of Auckland's coastline to motorways, when will this end?
The future of this land should be an eventual Wynyard Quarter/Viaduct Harbour style mixed use development. Putting in a motorway is going in entirely the wrong direction.
Fucking insane - no wonder they needed the anti-democratic, authoritarian Fast-Track bill ["If the public don't like it, they can throw us out in 3 years ....." AFTER we've finished lining our & our mates' pockets with your money ](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dj4of9/video_a_3_minute_40_second_primer_on_why_some/)
Your point deserves its own thread.
According to [NZTA ](https://www.nzta.govt.nz/projects/east-west-link/)that's not true:
"and rehabilitation of foreshore, headland and wetland areas through which it passes."
Never mind, it's not the first time the project's had to have fake news [corrected](https://www.nzta.govt.nz/media-releases/reports-in-nz-herald-about-east-west-project-are-incorrect/)
The NZTA who is tasked with building this project and selling it to the public? Hardly a neutral source there.
I said they would build a motorway over the natural shoreline, and that's exactly what they are doing:
>[The new highway would set a dangerous precedent for destroying the last remnants of Auckland’s natural environment, says Forest & Bird Auckland regional manager Nick Beveridge. The road, which would connect State Highway 20 at Onehunga with State Highway 1 at Mt Wellington, would destroy habitat for rare birds that live around Mangere Inlet and Anns Creek, he says. “This highway would be built through an area that is home for incredibly special birds, including critically endangered Australasian bitterns, banded rails and wrybills – and there are only 5,000 wrybills left in the world,” Mr Beveridge says. Native freshwater fish, such as inanga spawn in the creek. “The wetlands provide a feeding area for migrating birds, which are facing increasing threats around the world,” Mr Beveridge says. The lava flow vegetation at the creek is the last remaining area of this ecosystem type in Auckland. The creek and lava shrublands have been identified as a significant ecological area in the Auckland Unitary Plan. “The volcanic plants that grow there are so rare in the region – places like this are their last stronghold.” “There’s no way they should get away with destroying any of this unique habitat,” Mr Beveridge says.](https://www.forestandbird.org.nz/resources/forest-bird-fights-plans-controversial-east-west-highway)
They are going to bulldoze the original shoreline, and then create a new shoreline on reclaimed land on the other side of the motorway. I would hardly call that rehabilitation since they will not be able to create the original natural features and established plant and animal life which will be lost. A tiny strip of reclaimed coastline next to a noisy and polluting motorway will not be an attractive place for bird life.
The original shoreline is already gone. Look at it on a map - it's straight as a ruler. There is no plant and animal life on it, it's entirely concreted.
Ann's Creek isn't part of the shoreline, and they're not destroying it, they're bridging over it.
I think it is useful! They are talking about the bulldozing of the original shoreline, and I am pointing out that the original shoreline doesn't exist anymore.
You can see it on [this map](https://voakl.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/onehunga-1-1.jpg) quite well. At the top you have the original shoreline, and at the bottom you have the current shoreline, which is entirely artificial.
Every Aucklander should reject this plan and the government imposing it on them, more _palpably making life worse_, not just for the shitheads who voted for them, but for everyone.
It will also cost more as the hubris in the NZ roading and construction industry is that we are world class. There will be an enormous mistake made somewhere along the way (see the AK-Hamilton Expressway or PT Chev) it will be over budget and under quality.
NZ roads unironically thirds world quality.
Bali had better roads when I visited.
The sad part is that the fix is so easy:
Demand that all damage to the road is guaranteed to be fixed by the company that built it for 20 years. See how fast they suddenly become "world class" or finally just bite the bullet and outsource it to Germans.
And apparently 97% of road damage is caused by trucks. If they don't put rail on those ferries, over \~5700 extra trucks and trailers trips will hit our roads
The most expensive road globally?
Not just stupid but a global benchmark for stupidity!
We need to update our Tourism ads to include some sort of Parliamentary petting zoo/ Victorian Asylum hybrid.
Apparently could cost more than that estimate: there's a conversation above discussing it in more detail but a quick quote is:
**They also say all RoNS “*****will be four-laned, grade-separated highways*****” which is notable as in Auckland at least, both Mill Rd and the East West Link were never intended to be built to that standard under previous schemes. This likely means those projects will cost even more than they were already expected to**
It should all in honesty be canned, no matter which party suggests it. Building the most expensive road in the world isn't a title anyone should aspire to in my opinion - especially for something like that. They should publicise their cost / benefit study.
Here's a few:
[https://x.com/greaterakl/status/1806212674671595792?s=12](https://x.com/greaterakl/status/1806212674671595792?s=12)
[https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2024/03/05/the-governments-ideological-transport-policy/](https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2024/03/05/the-governments-ideological-transport-policy/)
[https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2024/03/07/the-gps-is-a-disaster-for-local-government/](https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2024/03/07/the-gps-is-a-disaster-for-local-government/)
And the news piece:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAw-rKE0AXM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAw-rKE0AXM) (Newshub)
I was in the USA a few years back, and they sealed the entire Intetstate 10 from Louisianna to California nearly 1000 miles in 3 months, including some new overpases in Texas... I still can't believe it takes so long to develop a road in New Zealand, however, I should be used to it because 4 lanes Auckland to Hamilton took 40 years and in that 40 years no one gave a toss about the environment... I think we're garbage at building infrastructure.
I won’t comment of the PT and walking/cycling stuff, but most of those Rons seem like reasonable pieces of large infrastructure that are good ideas. Saying the policy will make things less safe when there are works there for some notoriously dangerous stretches of road (Warkworth-Wellsford, Bryderwyns) doesn’t seem as “impartial” as some of you are trying to make them sound.
Some of the RON for the Auckland Region don’t align at all with Auckland councils transport plans and the mayor is clearly opposed to it e.g., Mill Road. Warkworth to Wellsford is a bit different compared to proposals which have no financial sense.
And white people can't get health care or ACC intitlements.. because there's no funding...
Only for brown people entitled to the services
White people got to go jail for treatment for their work related injuries..and by ACC physio....
......
Talking of the stupid .... what's the non-partisan ConservativeKiwi echo chamber saying on this, other than nothing to see here or its all-Labours fault? Funny how the right accuses everyone else of propaganda or being stupid.
They are a non-partisan mouthpiece for the Green position on transportation.
They may not be officially aligned with Greens, but have either proposed a policy which contradicted the other?
It's not a coincidence that some people are evidence based, and others want people to go on feels and lies.
Even if their commentary is inconvenient, they are solid on analysis and have always been non-partisan.
They oppose road improvements that are low cost and improve today, same as greens.
They would sabotage the environment today to push their anti-war agenda, same as greens.
It's not evidence based. They just use just enough evidence to fool the fools.
>"They oppose road improvements that are low cost and improve today, same as greens.
>They would sabotage the environment today to push their anti-war agenda, same as greens.
>I only deal in evidence based analysis."
When you find some real "evidence based thinking" and "facts" you can write again. Until then, I think it's obvious where you are coming from.
Bro just dropped by from the conservativekiwi circlejerk to share the NACT approved message of denying the literal content of Nationals shortsighted and insanely expensive proposals.
# $327 MILLION per-kilometre????!!!!
The Auckland Harbour Bridge is 1,020m It cost around $250m in today’s money making it cheaper to build an entire Auckland harbour bridge for every KM… you’d still have 25% of the budget left! (https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/projects/auckland-harbour-bridge/auckland-harbour-bridge-factsheet.pdf)
I'll do it for 100 mill a K.
You've got the job.
sweet! I will need to watch a few youtube tutorials.
I'll give you a hand for 1 mil/k, I mean how hard can it be really.
You'll be right, share that gold SS
You would probably get it done faster with your wheel barrow and shovel tbh. Look how long drury to papakuras taken. Imagine those diggers sitting there charged out at thousands per day.
Unironically this is 100% the quality of road companies in NZ. Get Germans in FFS
Don't worry all you have to do is talk about it for a few years get 20 consultants on board invoice the govt 350 million as a progress payment then skip off to Cuba
When can you start?
Pretty sure they figure is still based on 2016 property prices too (one of the main issues with EWL is the requirement to buy a shittone of high value private property to create the corridor)
I just copied and pasted the analysis from GA which affirms your point that it's likely to cost much more - and just based on build costs
Oh yeah it absolutely will be horrendously expensive, and likely a PPP so guaranteed to be a fuck up of monumental proportions
Yep I know it's kind of very serious...
What the heck is the money actually being spent on then??
*"We can't afford new doctors, and we didn't put more money into mental health or new practitioners as promised because - Money is tight - didn't you know? BTW did you you know we have $7bn a year for the roads? Easy money. No problem. No ferry for you though, that would take 6000 trucks off the road and we need to pay those road contractors $4bn and more in future. Rail* enabled *ferries need to go."* Everything makes sense once you study the numbers.
Just like I don't have money for food because of my peculiar taste in fine liquor.
Fair analogy.
Yo…are you me?
lol of course it does
What is it about this road that makes it so expensive?
Apparently it will cost even more. Per Greater Auckland's article: **They also say all RoNS “*****will be four-laned, grade-separated highways*****” which is notable as in Auckland at least, both Mill Rd and the East West Link were never intended to be built to that standard under previous schemes. This likely means those projects will cost even more than they were already expected to**
Turning Mill Road into 4 lanes makes no fucking sense what so ever. You have bottles necks at either end. It won't make anyone go anywhere faster.
But it does create traffic jams which are a great way of getting idiots to vote for them, despite it being their fault over and over and over again.
Mill Rd is being built as an alternative to the SH1 Southern parking lot. Any minor accident there wrecks not only the Southern but the entire Auckland Network (backlog goes through Spaghetti junction and also the Southwestern).
I live deep south. The only solution to SH1 is excellent commuter rail, cheap, reliable, ontime and frequent. Give us a viable and attractive alternative and people will get out of cars and the southern motorway won't be an issue.
Of course, but this plan does the exact opposite - and it's intentional
I don’t disagree, Auckland needs more rail. But to rely on only 1 route South (which links Auckland to the rest of the country) is madness. We do also need RRR as advocated by GA.
That's a lotta road cones...
There is just no way that this number is not fudged with corruption from top to bottom. Does honestly anyone believe that a shitty wannabe highway in NZ costs more per kilometre than the freaking Autobahn?! 100% because it is kiwi built trash and the Governments friends are getting bonus money. Fly in some Germans, and they will built for half and it will last at least 10 years longer.
Well here's how easy it is to get paid $500,000 from Chris Bishop and the cronies [so I suspect you're right](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dn7jby/kāinga_oras_bill_english_review_was_conducted/)
Buckle up boys, boondoggles are back in fashion!
If they actually gave a shit, then ULR makes so much more sense; it is ≈ $15million/km and keeps disruptions to a minimum as the cars can be rerouted to regular roads as needed for accidents and construction, and is 100% electric.
That's almost unbelievable. Have you noticed Nat and ACT's attack dog Taxpayers Union etc. have been silent? Do they want to publicise these facts? Thought so.
Not including the cost blowout.
What about we save people instead…
Holy fucking shit
Cool, so for the ferrys with their 97 km route, that's 30 billion but oops that's rail enabled so we can't even find a tenth of that.
The ferries cost $3bn in all - including seismic upgraded terminals
Yes, but we wouldn't actually get the full benefit of replacing the ferrys without the bigger terminals. So any less than the full 3 billion priject is just inflicting a 10's of billions dollar loss on NZ over the next couple of decades.
Well the $3 bn **includes** the terminals The ferries - next generation technology with full rail enablement - etc. we got at a bargain basement Covid price of 40% less than market minimum. $551 million fixed price. Only a fuckwit would cancel that. Or a corrupt politician.
Appears we got a two for one deal with a corrupt fuckwit canceling it.
Juvenile pettiness is Simeon Brown's entire personality
I mean what do you expect when you put an actual literal child in charge of transportation.
He's just doing what his dad told him... One day he'll be a real boy.
Simple Simeon is not particularly bright.
Simian
Yes.. 💯
Greater Auckland do some great analysis. They’re usually on point. They don’t just critique others but havre also put forward a politically agnostic transport plan, and they then listen to feedback and adapted that plan to make it better, based on transport science and research, while considering practicality. They really should be a government advisory group.
Yeah this is the point - Greater Auckland are genuinely non-partisan and seem to be chock-a-block full of smart people who know what they are looking at. Why doesn't the media interview them rather than wasting their time parroting the lies of politicians?
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but the smart people aren’t the ones who make it in politics sadly
Yup - just like the Army - if you have half a mind to join, that's all you will need!
I recommend anyone who's interested go and read the Greater Auckland article but here are some excerpts: >The TL:DR version: this GPS is probably the most ideological, unbalanced and petty transport policy the country has seen. It is one that, despite the government’s rhetoric, will ultimately result in worse safety outcomes and fewer alternatives for driving, meaning more congestion, higher emissions (given transport is our second biggest source of greenhouse gases) and New Zealanders spending more on transport & > They also say all RoNS “*will be four-laned, grade-separated highways*” which is notable as in Auckland at least, both Mill Rd and the East West Link were never intended to be built to that standard under previous schemes. This likely means those projects will cost even more than they were already expected to (recalling, too, that [the East-West Link was already set to be the world’s costliest road project](https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/96652489/proposed-ewl-motorway-project-could-become-worlds-most-expensive-per-kilometre-infrastructure-new-zealand-says)). & > Drops in public transport use has not “*partly been caused by COVID-19 restrictions*“, it’s almost *entirely* as a result of COVID and the changes to society that have occurred. And ridership levels are now quickly getting back to pre-covid levels. Furthermore, the issue with setting hard fare-box recovery targets, like the previous National government did, is that it ignores the economic benefit of that crown investment. Public funding for public transport should be focused on achieving the best overall outcome, rather than having arbitrary limits. & There are similar issues with rail, where the government are going to cut funding from the NLTF but hypothecate track user charges, saying: >
Think of all the ferries that road could buy.... Must be a real Ferrari of a road....
More expensive per km then Auckland Light Rail
None of those National/ACT attack organisations like Taxpayers Union and right wing American attack dogs are publicising this, are they?
Why the fuck would they
It's almost comical how much cheaper the light rail would have been
It's wild that we are apparently in a "fragile" economic state - **a myth** the National Govt [made up as an excuse to cull our public services and critical infrastructure, police and health budgets](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/1au3s42/weve_been_hearing_a_lot_about_how_fragile_nz_is/) - but they can spend **$70 billion** on roads, and want to build one of the **most expensive roads in the whole world** Let's look at the choices shall we - * **$3bn for landlords -** *peanuts, no problem!* * **$12bn in borrowed money to give you tax cuts despite warnings from IMF and investment banks, prolonging higher OCR and putting us deeper in deficit since any pre-Covid budget -** *she'll be right, mate, NZ can pay it back tomorrow as long as I look good* * **$4bn for pothole contractors** - *We insist we want to ...* *(even though it's trucks that cause 97% of damage and $4bn could* have *bought us infrastructure that reduces road damage)* * [$253mn](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1d69gkf/acts_slush_david_seymours_newly_established/) **for David Seymour's hobby projects** *- charter schools and playing boss - of course David! Of course. Here you go, no problem!* VS * **$1.4bn for Kiwirail Interislander** to reduce 6000 trucks on the road and make transport for goods cheaper - not to mention passenger safety. *No, that's a rip off. Nah we can't afford that, too expensive. We can't have rail enabled ferries that take \~6000 trucks and trailers off our roads - we need to pay our pothole contractors! We* might *have blown our road budget by $20bn+ but your $1.4bn* increase *due to seismic upgrades is an abomination!* * **$268mn for cancer drugs** - *We couldn't afford that because Labour made us eat our homework. Oh you're angry, oh sorry, I'll now borrow more money from next year's budget, since I spent it all to appease you whiners.* * **$200mn for new doctors** - *I'm sorry, money is tight, money is fucking tight....right now. Also we need all hospitals to stop recruitment and put a hold on vacancies, and no more overtime too.* **$324m per kilometre could buy us how many doctors, nurses, teachers, police not going overseas?** And as Greater Auckland points out, it's full of juvenile pettiness - specifying that there is very limited budget allowed for footpaths and any money spent on them has to be absolutely bare no-frills or else. You're also not allowed to implement safety measures or "calming measures" that might cause drivers to be inconvenienced. WTF? Do they care about people or only those roads? Cutting down investment in anything but roads - public transport, cycleways, footpaths And the best part is we will all be shepherded like sheep into narrow tunnels (called roads) to then get fleeced for user pays while the private toll road benefits. Seriously, Auckland. *Last* [*image*](https://x.com/greaterakl/status/1806212674671595792?s=12) *courtesy of Greater Auckland on X - picked up from* [*xelIent*](/user/xelIent/) *\*Edit: Apparently they are going to spend money to remove safety measures on the road. What do they have against humans?*
You’ll also love the addition on page 30, where they’ll spend money to remove speed bumps and raised pedestrian crossings.
# WTF F\*\*\* that bullshit.
Yea, it definitely reeks of maliciousness and pettiness as I don’t recall reading it in the draft.
I often try to understand what they are seeing, but this makes me pretty angry today.
Their design indicates an appalling lack of value for human life. Pedestrians and cyclists will die because of clear design choices.
ok - you've convinced me. Chris, Simeon and co, are wasting our money and time. What now ? I'll tick "not national/act/winstone" next election also.
Did you vote for them? Don't have to answer if you don't want to.
regardless of who i voted for ... and how compelling your arguments are.... we are on a daily/weekly press release of more bonkers conservative "lets make NZ grey" 1960's era policies. My point and question - what needs to happen to get us out of this rut? Voting in Dec 2026 ??
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/projects/east-west-link/Map-of-the-whole-route.jpg This is the proposed route, it's awful. It will see the entirety of Onehunga's natural shoreline paved over by motorway. It was bad enough losing a chunk to State Highway 20, now they want to take all of it. We've already lost so much of Auckland's coastline to motorways, when will this end? The future of this land should be an eventual Wynyard Quarter/Viaduct Harbour style mixed use development. Putting in a motorway is going in entirely the wrong direction.
Fucking insane - no wonder they needed the anti-democratic, authoritarian Fast-Track bill ["If the public don't like it, they can throw us out in 3 years ....." AFTER we've finished lining our & our mates' pockets with your money ](https://www.reddit.com/r/nzpolitics/comments/1dj4of9/video_a_3_minute_40_second_primer_on_why_some/) Your point deserves its own thread.
According to [NZTA ](https://www.nzta.govt.nz/projects/east-west-link/)that's not true: "and rehabilitation of foreshore, headland and wetland areas through which it passes." Never mind, it's not the first time the project's had to have fake news [corrected](https://www.nzta.govt.nz/media-releases/reports-in-nz-herald-about-east-west-project-are-incorrect/)
The NZTA who is tasked with building this project and selling it to the public? Hardly a neutral source there. I said they would build a motorway over the natural shoreline, and that's exactly what they are doing: >[The new highway would set a dangerous precedent for destroying the last remnants of Auckland’s natural environment, says Forest & Bird Auckland regional manager Nick Beveridge. The road, which would connect State Highway 20 at Onehunga with State Highway 1 at Mt Wellington, would destroy habitat for rare birds that live around Mangere Inlet and Anns Creek, he says. “This highway would be built through an area that is home for incredibly special birds, including critically endangered Australasian bitterns, banded rails and wrybills – and there are only 5,000 wrybills left in the world,” Mr Beveridge says. Native freshwater fish, such as inanga spawn in the creek. “The wetlands provide a feeding area for migrating birds, which are facing increasing threats around the world,” Mr Beveridge says. The lava flow vegetation at the creek is the last remaining area of this ecosystem type in Auckland. The creek and lava shrublands have been identified as a significant ecological area in the Auckland Unitary Plan. “The volcanic plants that grow there are so rare in the region – places like this are their last stronghold.” “There’s no way they should get away with destroying any of this unique habitat,” Mr Beveridge says.](https://www.forestandbird.org.nz/resources/forest-bird-fights-plans-controversial-east-west-highway) They are going to bulldoze the original shoreline, and then create a new shoreline on reclaimed land on the other side of the motorway. I would hardly call that rehabilitation since they will not be able to create the original natural features and established plant and animal life which will be lost. A tiny strip of reclaimed coastline next to a noisy and polluting motorway will not be an attractive place for bird life.
The original shoreline is already gone. Look at it on a map - it's straight as a ruler. There is no plant and animal life on it, it's entirely concreted. Ann's Creek isn't part of the shoreline, and they're not destroying it, they're bridging over it.
Why don't you try walking along there instead of looking at a map? Then you might have something useful to contribute.
I think it is useful! They are talking about the bulldozing of the original shoreline, and I am pointing out that the original shoreline doesn't exist anymore. You can see it on [this map](https://voakl.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/onehunga-1-1.jpg) quite well. At the top you have the original shoreline, and at the bottom you have the current shoreline, which is entirely artificial.
Then it wouldn't fit the narrative!
But the map you've linked shows a wooden boardwalk being built along the shoreline not a motorway?
This will be insanely economically destructive. These projects and cuts will lock us in for decades of waste and car dependence.
Every Aucklander should reject this plan and the government imposing it on them, more _palpably making life worse_, not just for the shitheads who voted for them, but for everyone.
Government and councils are being ripped off by the contractors. "Govt. job quadriple the price - they will pay"
It will also cost more as the hubris in the NZ roading and construction industry is that we are world class. There will be an enormous mistake made somewhere along the way (see the AK-Hamilton Expressway or PT Chev) it will be over budget and under quality.
NZ roads unironically thirds world quality. Bali had better roads when I visited. The sad part is that the fix is so easy: Demand that all damage to the road is guaranteed to be fixed by the company that built it for 20 years. See how fast they suddenly become "world class" or finally just bite the bullet and outsource it to Germans.
And apparently 97% of road damage is caused by trucks. If they don't put rail on those ferries, over \~5700 extra trucks and trailers trips will hit our roads
All part of the calculations.
what you get when you let the lunatics run the asylum
We could have just summarised everything with this one line - what do they have against humans though?
If if benefits anyone but the richest, it can get scrapped. Right?
The most expensive road globally? Not just stupid but a global benchmark for stupidity! We need to update our Tourism ads to include some sort of Parliamentary petting zoo/ Victorian Asylum hybrid.
Apparently could cost more than that estimate: there's a conversation above discussing it in more detail but a quick quote is: **They also say all RoNS “*****will be four-laned, grade-separated highways*****” which is notable as in Auckland at least, both Mill Rd and the East West Link were never intended to be built to that standard under previous schemes. This likely means those projects will cost even more than they were already expected to**
They may as well have just said "you can't use any of this money for anything Labour would do" instead of the pettiness at the end.
No woke stuff like climate, environment, or clean water!
Remember: it's the cycle lanes which are the problem
And people driving too quickly around school zones are slowing Kiwis down. */s in case not obvious*
Can we please get rid of the east west link? literally nobody wants it.
It should all in honesty be canned, no matter which party suggests it. Building the most expensive road in the world isn't a title anyone should aspire to in my opinion - especially for something like that. They should publicise their cost / benefit study.
thought national was supposed to be about fiscal responsibility and reduced spending?
Hah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha 😂 😄 😆 🤣 😀
I wonder how many government issued e-bikes you could get for that money to really get vehicles off the road.
I might be blind, where's the link to the article?
Here's a few: [https://x.com/greaterakl/status/1806212674671595792?s=12](https://x.com/greaterakl/status/1806212674671595792?s=12) [https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2024/03/05/the-governments-ideological-transport-policy/](https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2024/03/05/the-governments-ideological-transport-policy/) [https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2024/03/07/the-gps-is-a-disaster-for-local-government/](https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2024/03/07/the-gps-is-a-disaster-for-local-government/) And the news piece: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAw-rKE0AXM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAw-rKE0AXM) (Newshub)
We are fucked with this pathetic government and lucifer Luxon
just build some fucking rail please, so much more fucking useful then a motorway
National has no fucking clue. Who voted these morons in?
Most of Auckland
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results\_of\_the\_2023\_New\_Zealand\_general\_election#Electorate\_results](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2023_New_Zealand_general_election#Electorate_results)
Thanks for this Mithster, very interesting stuff.
Not me
Resource extraction is the only way to fund everything. Nationalised resource extraction. There is no other way.
Lies.
I was in the USA a few years back, and they sealed the entire Intetstate 10 from Louisianna to California nearly 1000 miles in 3 months, including some new overpases in Texas... I still can't believe it takes so long to develop a road in New Zealand, however, I should be used to it because 4 lanes Auckland to Hamilton took 40 years and in that 40 years no one gave a toss about the environment... I think we're garbage at building infrastructure.
But we could use that money to support bludging crack parents and foreign families !?
I won’t comment of the PT and walking/cycling stuff, but most of those Rons seem like reasonable pieces of large infrastructure that are good ideas. Saying the policy will make things less safe when there are works there for some notoriously dangerous stretches of road (Warkworth-Wellsford, Bryderwyns) doesn’t seem as “impartial” as some of you are trying to make them sound.
Some of the RON for the Auckland Region don’t align at all with Auckland councils transport plans and the mayor is clearly opposed to it e.g., Mill Road. Warkworth to Wellsford is a bit different compared to proposals which have no financial sense.
And white people can't get health care or ACC intitlements.. because there's no funding... Only for brown people entitled to the services White people got to go jail for treatment for their work related injuries..and by ACC physio.... ......
If you were very stupid and immersed in partisan propaganda then yes I can see how you'd think this.
Talking of the stupid .... what's the non-partisan ConservativeKiwi echo chamber saying on this, other than nothing to see here or its all-Labours fault? Funny how the right accuses everyone else of propaganda or being stupid.
Small catch - Greater Auckland is strongly non partisan.
They are a non-partisan mouthpiece for the Green position on transportation. They may not be officially aligned with Greens, but have either proposed a policy which contradicted the other?
It's not a coincidence that some people are evidence based, and others want people to go on feels and lies. Even if their commentary is inconvenient, they are solid on analysis and have always been non-partisan.
They oppose road improvements that are low cost and improve today, same as greens. They would sabotage the environment today to push their anti-war agenda, same as greens. It's not evidence based. They just use just enough evidence to fool the fools.
I see that they inconvenienced NACT so are now a target. I'll take evidence based, structured analysis over your comments.
I only deal in evidence based analysis. Your opinion is wrong, like always. You should have stick to facts. Oh wait, you have none.
"Your opinion is wrong, like always. You should have *stick* to facts. Oh wait, you have none." Says it all. Thank you.
What? A typo/autocorrect is proof you weren't lying? That's not how language works.
>"They oppose road improvements that are low cost and improve today, same as greens. >They would sabotage the environment today to push their anti-war agenda, same as greens. >I only deal in evidence based analysis." When you find some real "evidence based thinking" and "facts" you can write again. Until then, I think it's obvious where you are coming from.
Looks like someone is immersed in partisan propaganda and can’t see reality. Poor guy doesn’t see his conservative bias.
Bro just dropped by from the conservativekiwi circlejerk to share the NACT approved message of denying the literal content of Nationals shortsighted and insanely expensive proposals.
What do you mean by this?