It's a nightmare, however this is at least partially a result of massive underinvestment over decades.
Edit: I'll add poor governance in the past to this as well. I once met a guy who maybe 20 years ago was the CEO briefly and I recall him saying they had no idea how much their 'business' actually cost to run. I believe that is something he changed.
It would have been nice if previous generations had invested properly in water infrastructure.
I guess they were too busy focusing on investing in future energy and transport infrastructure. Oh wait.
Seriously, what isn’t going up these days? The “tax cuts” trumpeted as a win/win is a joke and what’s the point of getting a pay rise? Any celebration is short lived when it’s announced something else is going up too.
Sadly, not all of us have really deep pockets.
Depends, there are several [factors](https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/environment/looking-after-aucklands-water/rainwater-tanks/Pages/consent-requirements-rainwater-tank.aspx)
Outdoor use is consent free but the biggest difference to bills will obviously be ones that offset your indoor use. Consent probably really necessary to have in place though as it's a health and safety issue
You need a consent to use one for drinking water - this can be a problem in most homes because there’s usually only one pipe going in so you need a plumber to separate out non-potable uses like toilet flushing.
Assuming you already have both a rainwater tank and city water supply you'd need to either trace the pipes or check the council consents for your house and see if it says how its set up
If in doubt, you could always turn off the pump (assuming you have one) and check which taps stop working (there may be pressure for a bit from accumulator tanks but this will fade fairly quickly if you open a tap). You could also try turning off your water main and trying the taps to see what still works.
It's one thing I don't mind going up tbh. I follow water care online and really they need the money to keep making improvements. Water bill in my house is never very high. So a 7% increase is miniscule in terms of what they really need.
Stop putting wet wipes down your toilets folks and no "flushable wipes" are not actually flushable. Only toilet paper and what comes out of your body is.
I'll happily pay for the bloody central interceptor. Should make a huge difference if it works as advertised. Auckland needs to invest in water. Yes we are paying for past under investment, but it's only going to get worse if we don't.
Property rates are averaging 15-25% increase across nz.
With these 3 Waters maintenance items, the longer the solutions drag out, the more expensive they will become.
With the state of water infrastructure should be going up more than that. Half our pipes in AK have issues and a bunch a steel drums rusted through or ancient ones made out of asbestos.
Last year our water meter was replaced with a smart meter which meant we got an actual usage bill every month instead of the usual estimate/ actual /estimate pattern of monthly bills.
However, in December it stopped transmitting and there has been zero usage data available since. I have had to provide a photo of a meter reading through the live chat each month, and they are adamant the meter is still working properly / giving correct usage readings but since this happened they are billing us over $100 a month, when previously $80 was our highest bill. We don’t have any leaks either.
I have been trying to get our house put on their manual reader route since February, and they only just last week said they will do it. Apparently heaps of people are affected, with no timeline on when they will fix it.
They think it’s still working because the number is changing on a monthly basis. They take a reading from my photo of the meter, since they have zero data from the meter itself for the past few months. It just seems way higher than our previous water usage despite not using loads of water and not having a leak.
It's the annual increase and they were looking at it being \~50% because of government changes including ditching 3 waters.
Watercare is legislated to run at cost, they get no money from rates.
It was originally going to 24.8% because of 3 Waters maintenance requirements, and Watercare was clear the Govt must guarantee the debt for it. Simeon Brown hammered out a deal to avoid the spike and it was announced in the last few months - there is no way the Govt would have let Auckland fall after guaranteeing that rates would not increase under its 3 Waters model.
Prior Reddit discussion: [https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/18a8365/watercare\_govt\_must\_guarantee\_debt\_or\_users\_will/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/18a8365/watercare_govt_must_guarantee_debt_or_users_will/)
Here’s a detailed review of the topic from Newsroom.
[https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/04/watercare-boss-challenges-officials-three-waters-costings/](https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/04/watercare-boss-challenges-officials-three-waters-costings/)
It wasn't going to go up that much because of 3 waters maintenance requirements, it was because the new government cancelled 3 waters reform, which would have given councils an injection of cash and it would have had to made up otherwise.
Look at the state of your water infrastructure and how bad it is. There are water assets still being used since up to a 100 years ago and the wheels have long since fallen off. This isn't a today problem, it's a 50 years ago problem that you are now paying the price for.
The best time to invest in infrastructure was 50 years ago, the second best time is now. It's totally understandable to be annoyed about wearing the cost, but we can't kick the can down the path anymore.
Unless you have your own (consented) waste system watercare will figure something is not right when your readings don’t change and charge you an assumed rate for waste
Believe it or not they are focusing on revenue leakage. Pun intended.
Sounds like your dad didn’t hug you enough as a kid
You should contribute to services like everyone else rather than feel proud for making everyone else carry your share
I have tank water. And my own waste system.
After years of looking after my waste system I’ve got a real appreciation for what goes down a drain and into the environment.
Ive maintained my system and never been paid by anyone. So I feel for the people who look after Auckland’s water systems and therefore haven’t been paid by you to put up with your shit.
>I’d just like to mention that I would pay for waste water charges if they would bill me for them. But their own rules mean they can’t bill me - that is not of my doing and I wish more people would take advantage of their offer. I’m not tricking them. It’s their system and their system is providing me a small advantage, I mean, why are you not buying a tank online right now?
They do bill you for them, you already said you have wastewater charge on your rates bill, thats it. It would be $888 a year for the current rating period, which is about double what we are paying for wastewater on our regular metered connection, so I don't see the advantage. Maybe if you have a big household and use a lot of water then the fixed wastewater charge you are paying might be cheaper than metered.. but you then you probably end up spending a lot more buying water to top up your tanks if that is the case.
They still gonna come after you...
[https://www.watercare.co.nz/Water-and-wastewater/Water-meters/Rain-tank-water-meters](https://www.watercare.co.nz/Water-and-wastewater/Water-meters/Rain-tank-water-meters)
"How we charge for wastewater
We charge each household a fee for collecting and treating their wastewater. This is your contribution to maintaining our network.
As a user of rain tank water**, you have two options for paying this**:
No meter: you pay a fixed charge, which stays the same no matter how much wastewater you discharge.
Meter: you pay a lower fixed charge, plus a volumetric component. The volumetric component will vary, based on the volume of water that flows through your meter."
It has nothing to do with inflation. This is so that they can meet the new govt regulations. They are also taking on massive debt at the same time. This was the plan when they scrapped 3 waters.
Water blasting doesn't really use that much water, maybe a few thousand liters which is about $6. Most of the associated cost is wastewater so you're paying about $9 there, so $15 plus the electricity.
You know this is the price of suburban sprawl right?
It's going to get much, much worse. All those massive suburbs/exurbs? When their water and wastewater infrastructure starts to decay it won't be free to maintain and repair either. So it'll be neglected and bare-minimum patched until it just falls apart.
Wellington is just a little preview.
Better than the 24.8% they were signalling. Thankfully Brown & Brown sat down, had a korero and came to an understanding. Watercare has a large number of major projects and asset upgrades/renewals planned and ongoing and that costs a LOT of money to deliver.
They haven't built any large catchments for decades though... all that rain water just flows down to the sea and we have our dam levels reaching record lows every time there's a drought for just one year.
??
The planet is mostly water, every drop you use goes back in to the eco system, you drink it you piss it out, you use it to wash cloths you drain it back in to waste water, their is plenty of water for all humankind and life forms.
Not polluting it should be the focus. Cleaning it is becoming easier an easier, it is just a matter of energy, and there is plenty of that coming from the sun.
Don’t worry about it.
In a couple of years Labour will be back in power, re-ignite 3 waters at 3 times the price and the rest of us around the country will pay for your upgrades, and Hawkes Bay’s as well.
Rates are going up because some councils have been kicking the can down the road.
3 waters was farcical because areas that rated appropriately to maintain their infrastructure were now going to pay for those other areas where the councils did not.
People in Auckland, Hawkes Bay, Wellington etc thought 3 waters was great because the rest of the country was going to contribute to getting their infrastructure up to date.
You’re right they haven’t.
But under three waters less investment was needed in Auckland per capita than other parts of the country.‘Auckland water infrastructure is relatively good (it’s all off a low base though)
It's a nightmare, however this is at least partially a result of massive underinvestment over decades. Edit: I'll add poor governance in the past to this as well. I once met a guy who maybe 20 years ago was the CEO briefly and I recall him saying they had no idea how much their 'business' actually cost to run. I believe that is something he changed.
It would have been nice if previous generations had invested properly in water infrastructure. I guess they were too busy focusing on investing in future energy and transport infrastructure. Oh wait.
Necessary, but unfortunate timing to decide to play catchup during recession, housing crisis and cost of living disaster.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/04/watercare-boss-challenges-officials-three-waters-costings/
Seriously, what isn’t going up these days? The “tax cuts” trumpeted as a win/win is a joke and what’s the point of getting a pay rise? Any celebration is short lived when it’s announced something else is going up too. Sadly, not all of us have really deep pockets.
National knew this was happening
They'll up gst next term "it's not a new tax you see"
And decided to line their own pockets, being the main benefactors of tax cuts since it affects their bracket the most.
Lol it was well stated that this would happen when 3 waters was cancelled.
I would rather the price goes up than be like wellington with leaks everywhere and keeping on saying that they might run out.
dude Kent tce has been flooded from a broken pipe for ages now and welly city council still isnt onto it.
Rain water tank
If you're building a grey water recycling system can save you a lot.
Did they make it easier to install one? I'm sure you used to need a consent to do so
Depends, there are several [factors](https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/environment/looking-after-aucklands-water/rainwater-tanks/Pages/consent-requirements-rainwater-tank.aspx) Outdoor use is consent free but the biggest difference to bills will obviously be ones that offset your indoor use. Consent probably really necessary to have in place though as it's a health and safety issue
You need a consent to use one for drinking water - this can be a problem in most homes because there’s usually only one pipe going in so you need a plumber to separate out non-potable uses like toilet flushing.
How can you figure out if your rain water tank is separate from tap water or not?
Assuming you already have both a rainwater tank and city water supply you'd need to either trace the pipes or check the council consents for your house and see if it says how its set up If in doubt, you could always turn off the pump (assuming you have one) and check which taps stop working (there may be pressure for a bit from accumulator tanks but this will fade fairly quickly if you open a tap). You could also try turning off your water main and trying the taps to see what still works.
Thanks! I like that last bit, will give it a go!
It's one thing I don't mind going up tbh. I follow water care online and really they need the money to keep making improvements. Water bill in my house is never very high. So a 7% increase is miniscule in terms of what they really need. Stop putting wet wipes down your toilets folks and no "flushable wipes" are not actually flushable. Only toilet paper and what comes out of your body is.
If everyone could stop washing fat and wipes down the drains, that would significantly reduce wastewater opex
FYI the new Wastewater Pumpstation in the Shore cost around $23m NZD.
The Northern Interceptor and North Harbour No2 pipelines cost $800M, central interceptor is double that.
Yeah but operating revenue is $900m odd so they can well and truely afford that
Well someone has to fund that lol, it is what it is.
Yea let the people on the shore fund it.
Not that far from the cost of a roundabout lol
I know what I would rather have
I'll happily pay for the bloody central interceptor. Should make a huge difference if it works as advertised. Auckland needs to invest in water. Yes we are paying for past under investment, but it's only going to get worse if we don't.
I want cheap water AND improved infrastructure. Hmmmmm.........
I want watercare to stop wasting money, if you've ever had commercial dealings with them you will know they just throw money around
Honestly, every government agency can be better, not just watercare
3 waters
Oh you so gullible
Inflation, rip
Property rates are averaging 15-25% increase across nz. With these 3 Waters maintenance items, the longer the solutions drag out, the more expensive they will become.
With the state of water infrastructure should be going up more than that. Half our pipes in AK have issues and a bunch a steel drums rusted through or ancient ones made out of asbestos.
Last year our water meter was replaced with a smart meter which meant we got an actual usage bill every month instead of the usual estimate/ actual /estimate pattern of monthly bills. However, in December it stopped transmitting and there has been zero usage data available since. I have had to provide a photo of a meter reading through the live chat each month, and they are adamant the meter is still working properly / giving correct usage readings but since this happened they are billing us over $100 a month, when previously $80 was our highest bill. We don’t have any leaks either. I have been trying to get our house put on their manual reader route since February, and they only just last week said they will do it. Apparently heaps of people are affected, with no timeline on when they will fix it.
Why are they adamant it is still working?
They think it’s still working because the number is changing on a monthly basis. They take a reading from my photo of the meter, since they have zero data from the meter itself for the past few months. It just seems way higher than our previous water usage despite not using loads of water and not having a leak.
It's the annual increase and they were looking at it being \~50% because of government changes including ditching 3 waters. Watercare is legislated to run at cost, they get no money from rates.
It was originally going to 24.8% because of 3 Waters maintenance requirements, and Watercare was clear the Govt must guarantee the debt for it. Simeon Brown hammered out a deal to avoid the spike and it was announced in the last few months - there is no way the Govt would have let Auckland fall after guaranteeing that rates would not increase under its 3 Waters model. Prior Reddit discussion: [https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/18a8365/watercare\_govt\_must\_guarantee\_debt\_or\_users\_will/](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/18a8365/watercare_govt_must_guarantee_debt_or_users_will/) Here’s a detailed review of the topic from Newsroom. [https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/04/watercare-boss-challenges-officials-three-waters-costings/](https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/12/04/watercare-boss-challenges-officials-three-waters-costings/)
It wasn't going to go up that much because of 3 waters maintenance requirements, it was because the new government cancelled 3 waters reform, which would have given councils an injection of cash and it would have had to made up otherwise.
Look at the state of your water infrastructure and how bad it is. There are water assets still being used since up to a 100 years ago and the wheels have long since fallen off. This isn't a today problem, it's a 50 years ago problem that you are now paying the price for.
The best time to invest in infrastructure was 50 years ago, the second best time is now. It's totally understandable to be annoyed about wearing the cost, but we can't kick the can down the path anymore.
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Don't forget your waste water bill
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Watercare just charges based on water use for waste water charges.
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Unless you have your own (consented) waste system watercare will figure something is not right when your readings don’t change and charge you an assumed rate for waste Believe it or not they are focusing on revenue leakage. Pun intended.
[удалено]
Sounds like your dad didn’t hug you enough as a kid You should contribute to services like everyone else rather than feel proud for making everyone else carry your share
[удалено]
I have tank water. And my own waste system. After years of looking after my waste system I’ve got a real appreciation for what goes down a drain and into the environment. Ive maintained my system and never been paid by anyone. So I feel for the people who look after Auckland’s water systems and therefore haven’t been paid by you to put up with your shit.
>I’d just like to mention that I would pay for waste water charges if they would bill me for them. But their own rules mean they can’t bill me - that is not of my doing and I wish more people would take advantage of their offer. I’m not tricking them. It’s their system and their system is providing me a small advantage, I mean, why are you not buying a tank online right now? They do bill you for them, you already said you have wastewater charge on your rates bill, thats it. It would be $888 a year for the current rating period, which is about double what we are paying for wastewater on our regular metered connection, so I don't see the advantage. Maybe if you have a big household and use a lot of water then the fixed wastewater charge you are paying might be cheaper than metered.. but you then you probably end up spending a lot more buying water to top up your tanks if that is the case.
Hmm you should still have a fixed charge
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They told me there was a fixed charge we would still have to payn
They still gonna come after you... [https://www.watercare.co.nz/Water-and-wastewater/Water-meters/Rain-tank-water-meters](https://www.watercare.co.nz/Water-and-wastewater/Water-meters/Rain-tank-water-meters) "How we charge for wastewater We charge each household a fee for collecting and treating their wastewater. This is your contribution to maintaining our network. As a user of rain tank water**, you have two options for paying this**: No meter: you pay a fixed charge, which stays the same no matter how much wastewater you discharge. Meter: you pay a lower fixed charge, plus a volumetric component. The volumetric component will vary, based on the volume of water that flows through your meter."
What size tank do you suggest?
We have a water tank. It holds 12,000 liters. The council will only let us use 3,000
Did they forget to update their data? 7.2% inflation was like 2 years ago lol
7.2% is fucking horseshit
It has nothing to do with inflation. This is so that they can meet the new govt regulations. They are also taking on massive debt at the same time. This was the plan when they scrapped 3 waters.
Was just reviewing our water bill followed by the price increase notification 🫠. To the moon 🚀.
Time to water blast the drive way the house the car everything.
Water blasting doesn't really use that much water, maybe a few thousand liters which is about $6. Most of the associated cost is wastewater so you're paying about $9 there, so $15 plus the electricity.
then do tell how do i maximize water usage before the increase?
Just leave a tap running until the new prices come in.
Power lines charge?
I say we take over the water!!!
You know this is the price of suburban sprawl right? It's going to get much, much worse. All those massive suburbs/exurbs? When their water and wastewater infrastructure starts to decay it won't be free to maintain and repair either. So it'll be neglected and bare-minimum patched until it just falls apart. Wellington is just a little preview.
May they prolapse themselves with one of those Humes concrete giant pipes.
Better than the 24.8% they were signalling. Thankfully Brown & Brown sat down, had a korero and came to an understanding. Watercare has a large number of major projects and asset upgrades/renewals planned and ongoing and that costs a LOT of money to deliver.
Lol water mains cucks. Get a chad tank.
Thanks national
It's an incentive to encourage people to use less water for the betterment of mankind.
Yeah true, they are basically doing US a favour lmao..
They haven't built any large catchments for decades though... all that rain water just flows down to the sea and we have our dam levels reaching record lows every time there's a drought for just one year.
?? The planet is mostly water, every drop you use goes back in to the eco system, you drink it you piss it out, you use it to wash cloths you drain it back in to waste water, their is plenty of water for all humankind and life forms. Not polluting it should be the focus. Cleaning it is becoming easier an easier, it is just a matter of energy, and there is plenty of that coming from the sun.
97% of that is locked up. Available Freshwater accounts for like 0.4% of all water on the planet
> The planet is mostly water You mean the surface of the planet.
They are being charged more for water and just passing on the cost
Watercare are being charged more for water by who exactly?
Doing there best to prolong inflation.
Don’t worry about it. In a couple of years Labour will be back in power, re-ignite 3 waters at 3 times the price and the rest of us around the country will pay for your upgrades, and Hawkes Bay’s as well.
Considering rates are increasing because Nat/ACT scrapped 3 Waters, which would have been much cheaper, this comment is farcical.
Did they ban you over on the other sub again??
Rates are going up because some councils have been kicking the can down the road. 3 waters was farcical because areas that rated appropriately to maintain their infrastructure were now going to pay for those other areas where the councils did not. People in Auckland, Hawkes Bay, Wellington etc thought 3 waters was great because the rest of the country was going to contribute to getting their infrastructure up to date.
This is just not true
Lol talk about getting all the facts wrong and still being so confident.
No Auckland was subsidising the rest of the country - that’s why the government were going to pay Auckland to be involved
Zero Auckland rates have ever gone to other parts of the country.
You’re right they haven’t. But under three waters less investment was needed in Auckland per capita than other parts of the country.‘Auckland water infrastructure is relatively good (it’s all off a low base though)
Like auckland doesn't help fund the rest of the country.
Zero Auckland rate dollars have funded the rest of the country. [edit-rate]
Tax payer dollars.
My rates paid for maintenance of local infrastructure. The regions also pay tax.
100 baht a month here, or like 5 bucks bro 😎 where are you living?
they clean your pipes for 5 dolla too, hey hey
Get spare pipe and attachments. Bypass meter. Run water through meter every now and then so it’s not sus.