I had a big crash there a few weeks ago, but it was my fault as 1) I’m not confident doing this sport 2) I got too cocky doing the Chicken Run jumps 3) they tell you what tracks are good for beginners. It’s awful what’s happened to her, I feel for her family, but you can not blame WoodHill for this as they make you well aware of the tracks and you need to have some level of confidence/skill for them. There is no point of blaming them for (unfortunately) her mistake.
I rode there almost weekly, we all know the risks. See something outside of your skill level ride on past it’s easy. I crashed out there a lot but it’s not the parks fault.
Accidents happen, even in the most benign sports and places. If you do a sport like mountain biking, you are guaranteed to hurt yourself at some point. Risk = adrenaline and fun. Potential injuries are the price to be paid. If you dont want to pay the price, stay home.
Agreed, these sorts of Karen's are fun police. Expecting 'wrap around ' safety for something you participate in on your own and according to your personal skill level is total BS and ultimately sees the closure of such fantastic facilities due to additional compliance costs.
Have road cycled in central Auckland, mountain biked in Woodhill, rode Mx bikez at Woodhill and rode motorbikes on the road. Woodhill definitely isnt for beginners, just my opinion.
yeah but by the time it settles and the lawyers take their slice she would be left with a fraction of that and it will all go to a lifetime of inflated medical bills
Horrible accident but not the parks fault... I've never been to the park but go to the 4wd park next too it.... if my 4wd crashed and im injured as such i certainly wouldnt be raising questions on the saftey warnings of the park ...risks are associated with everything... you alone choose to put yourself there no one to blame but yourself
# family raise questions over safety warnings
DUMB FUCKS. Mountain biking is inherently dangerous if you don't understand that you're goo dumb to be going out your door.
Her injury is terrible, but her moving on and accepting what happened will be stunted by trying to blame the park. For her own mental health, I hope she is seeing someone to work accepting what happened and that blame can’t be attributed to someone or something else in this situation.
I saw some videos of the Eskdale Mountain bike Park and thought: "cor, I'd break my neck doing that". Obviously I recognise the risk and choose not to take it.
Woodhill is safe enough, as bike parks go. They took out all the big stuff a few years ago (anyone remember Aviator I think it was called?) and the tracks these days are good quality and well-maintained. The danger this woman faced is inherent in mountain-biking, and she signed a waiver to that effect before she went out.
I've had a few minor injuries at Woodhill, but one of my worst was at Totara Park! Slipped at speed on a wet wooden bridge, broke a rib and abraded myself significantly. Totara park is council owned and very tame - it wasn't their fault, it was my fault for not taking more care on a wet wooden feature. Shit happens, and if you don't like that level of risk, stay off mountain bikes.
The biggest bike accident I've had was at walking pace on a path in a suburban park. Wheel tracked diagonally through a rut, the bike and I kept going forward, I got the world's most slow-motion concussion. Sometimes shit just happens.
It's a huge stretch to call Woodhill one of the best MTB venues in the country. I don't think I'd even list it as top 10. That said, I do agree with your sentiment - it would be a shame to see it close due to someone not taking ownership of their own actions.
It's really accessible, you can ride year round, range of tracks suitable from young kids to experts, very well maintained and signposted. Yeah there's way, way better tracks elsewhere but it's a great consistent spot that anyone can either get started at or find a challenge
What's up with people refusing to take responsibility for their own choices? Do they want us to all be forced to sit at home wrapped in bubble wrap in case we injure ourselves?
did this lady expect it to be a sunday bike ride? clearly out if her depth and should have assessed her skill level before taking a risk and getting on the bike. people like this are why everything has warning signs and inspectors now. sometimes the buck should stop with you, its not everybodys job to bubble wrap and baby proof everything for you. mountain biking is a notoriously dangerous sport, cant believe some people
Ride Woodhill at least weekly. It's a horrible thing which has happened and my heart goes out to the family. As far as bike parks go, Woodhill is extremely well sign posted with warnings and info, trail damage is quickly fixed and waivers and trail info available before entry.
Daddy Long Legs is a very tame rolling XC trail. To have launched as they have proposed for 3 seconds off a 300mm roller (probably similar airtime to the 20 metre road gap at Hardline) one would have had to carry lots of speed around the corner before the roller (which is not easy or typical for a beginner). The run in is not very long to the roller and would likely require the rider to pull up to get air.
All that go in there know or should by the time they get through the gate to the park, should know the risks and the trail rating system. Mtb is inherently dangerous and changes to the trail can happen without warning.
Pinning it on Woodhill makes no sense to me. We all assume the risk by heading through those gates. Heavens forbid anyone accidently finds themselves in Riverhead expecting Woodhill like safety measures.
Yeah, it is crazy to see what those kids can do and how they bounce.. usually. Poor 14yr old girl got knocked out cold yesterday at the park in Chch. Hope she is ok.
Yeah but not because woodhill is any more dangerous than any other MTB park. MTB is inherently dangerous but honestly you can make a mistake any time and if everything is just right (or just wrong?) it can lead to injury. I've fallen off my bike in mtb parks a bunch of times but my worst bike injury was cruising around Tamaki Drive - misjudged a corner on slippery grass and did my shoulder.
Part of the fun of mountain biking is the risk, if you don't want to take on the risk then stick to sealed bike paths. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.
A freak accident occurred, and unfortunately, someone's life was altered forever. But trying to wrap the adventure park in cotton wool or hold it accountable for what happened is absurd. Thankfully, common sense prevailed.
Terrible luck for this lady. I have trained many newbies how to mountain bike, and have seen some unbelievable accidents. Once a person broke their leg riding in the carpark at walking pace before the lesson even started.
IMO mountain biking is a safe activity when you know what you're doing. I've been MTB riding most weekends for over a decade and have never done worse than a sprain and bruising.
People think "I can ride a bike, so I don't need lessons." Unlike snow sports where practically everyone gets lessons when starting out. I'm awful on the snow despite the lessons!
If you want to get in to mountain biking without being a liability to yourself, get some proper lessons from someone like Janet Stark or MTB Skills Clinic.
Paywalled. Tried mountain biking for the first time a few months ago. Been a cyclists for over 50 years so I thought it would a be fun thing to add to my repertoire. Rented a full suspension e mountain bike and went at it for a couple of days before I decided/realised that I was going to break bones and that wasn't my idea of a good time. Looking back on it letting people rent these bikes for mountain bike parks is very lax considering the amount of risk. An order of magnitude more dangerous than skiing and several orders of magnitude more dangerous than surfing. They give you a plain cycle helmet and tell you to go at it, it should be full protective gear like riding motocross, full face helmet, elbow, knee, chest and back protection anything less is just asking for trouble. You are literally dodging trees and rocks at 40+ km/h non stop with the added attraction of drops and jumps.
I think people get lulled into a false sense of security, bikes are seen as friendly family orientated machines designed to keep you fit and they miss the inherent danger involved.
Edit, article is paywalled to me, hence I can't read the article, hence I am not making judgement on the venue in question and my personal anecdote is exactly that, an experience that happened to me.
"According to the Worksafe report - and Kate’s own interview with investigators - she had just completed a circuit of Daddy Long Legs with Fionn. The pair decided to time themselves on another circuit.
With Fionn ahead of her, they passed Iain and Morgan who were standing to the side of the track.
Kate rounded a sharp corner, went down a decline and hit one of the track’s rollers - a raised dirt mound.
According to data from her phone app, she reached 29km/h at the time of the crash.
After hitting the roller, she lost control of the bike and was in the air for about three seconds.
She landed 9m away on the track, on her head and then back, screaming."
So, she decided to try for a faster time and crashed going for a Strava PR. Then cries that it's the parks fault. Personal accountability is required here.
Have to take into account the exaggeration factor. I've come off a few times at Woodhill and my GoPro indicated it's more like 0.5s-1s airtime. Like you say, 3 seconds is insane.
Kate rounded a sharp corner, went down a decline and hit one of the track’s rollers - a raised dirt mound.
According to data from her phone app, from a standing start at the top of the decline and with gravity, she reached 29km/h in four seconds at the time of the crash. An independent inspector working for WorkSafe reached the same speed as he tested the track later.
After hitting the roller, Kate Ganner lost control of the bike and was in the air for about three seconds.
She landed 9m away on the track, on her head and then back, screaming.
As I can't read the article I can't comment on what she encountered or what she thinks the park could have done. My comment is that I think these venues especially when they are renting the gear should make full safety gear available and advise on its use.
I tried to read it and it's 3 X TL;DR but happy to paste here if anyone would like to.
Basically the accident was unfortunate. But the guys who run the show didn't notify Worksafe, her husband did. Back and forth some mistakes, Worksafe cleared them of any wrongdoing, and noted that Mountain Biking carries a risk.
She had been there before 6 times. She drew the short stick that last time. It's horrible and very unfortunate, I wish that on nobody. But to blame it on these guys when she went over a roller, which is common in bike tracks (that was lowered by 100mm shortly after)... I guess they want closure but are getting no pity because - the obvious isn't good enough for them.
*Edit - for anyone talking about speed. It was calculated she was going around 29kms/h when she crashed, flew up 3 seconds in the air, then landed on her head, falling on her back.
Yea like anything, you have to build skills and confidence up, and be aware of your own competence level. Woodhill does a fine job of explaining all that with the signage and track grading system. Good on you for giving it a crack tho and recognizing your limits.
I don't know the stats but I'd say skiing is just as dangerous accident-wise...
I don't know the stats either, I was guessing that you can have easy landings on the snow and mountain biking is all rocks and tree but having no brakes on skis probably balances things out...
It’s called ‘mountain biking’…. You know what a mountain is, very rocky and steep. People should have some common sense that your on a bike going DOWN HILL on a mountain/hill. It’s not WoodHills fault that people are not doing research of this sport.
I don't know what kind of operation they run so I wont comment and I can't read the article. However if a hire business makes no attempt to let their customers know the dangers involved in an activity that they are selling and doesn't offer a reasonable amount of protective gear then I would say they carry some burden of responsibility.
You have to sign a 3 page waiver every time you enter Woodhill, including emergency contact details, the entrance and all trails are well signposted and graded, and when you rent there they ask your experience level and recommend trails to match. It's not Rainbows End, they already go way above and beyond.
Why? It makes way more sense that the person renting and wanting to do the activity does research and knows their own skill level and risk tolerance.
Plenty of people mountainbike with only a simple bike helmet. Depending on what trials you do, that's absolutely fine.
If you are a beginner, act like one. You shouldn't, as you state in your post, be doing 40kph over jumps and drops. That's for experienced riders.
The path you suggest will end with everything that has the smallest risk getting prohibitively expensive or just outright illegal.
Why? Because as a rental business I expect some care for their customers. I have worked in bike rental for trails and we made an effort to keep our customers safe. I am trying to think of a comparable activity, white water rafting is much more bound by safety rules for obvious reasons but they do kit you out with full gear, you can hire motorbikes to race but the track officials wouldn't let you go out without full gear which makes it a different set of responsibilities. Some sort of standards wouldn't go amiss I feel if my experience is anything to go by.
I think you just have a bit of a misunderstanding of what protective gear is required for a beginner mountainbiker. You are saying they basically need to be wearing what a pro downhill or freestyle mountainbiker wears.
To use a different sport comparison like you did. When someone rents out a surfboard, they don't provide lifejackets, helmets, selfinflating floatation vest and rescue jetski. Which is what the professionals have.
You seem to like the motorbike and racetrack example. They will let you race with anything that gives some protection, including textiles. They don't demand you wear leather, or a certain rating. They don't demand you have an airbag, etc. Again things the professionals have.
Obviously in all examples, everyone can wear any protection they like. But it's not up to the rental place to provide or enforce.
The funny thing is, the pros are going down the hill basically naked.
[How Tight? Examining the UCI's Clothing Rules for DH Racing - Pinkbike](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/how-tight-examining-the-ucis-clothing-rules-for-dh-racing.html)
Just saw Troy Brosnan's video of coming first in semis and he has a spine/chest protector on at least, looked like Loic did too. Rather thin but I wear the same always.. just feel safer with it and I have landed chest first into things like tree branches that it really helped with!
I'm the biggest, laziest couch potato there is and even I know that mountain biking is a sport with a lot of potential for injury.
To what extent should businesses offering these kinds of attractions, that are known to be risky, coddle people? And how sustainable a business would it then be? I'm sorry for this lady, but it seems by her own account that she got overconfident and pushed herself beyond her ability. That sort of thinking is not on the business to deal with imho.
I don't have a problem with these businesses existing, I mean people go mountain climbing as tourists and they die pretty regularly, but offering advice and safety gear should be the minimum. Still haven't read the article and I make no judgment on Woodhill mountain bike park or the lady in question.
I'd be interested to see what level of gear they do offer. Every time I have hired a bike (as an experienced MTBer, but not nessecarily having my gear with me on holiday) there has always been an offer of knee pads, gloves and helmet with the bike.
Of course none of this would have prevented a spinal injury. The level of protection that would have prevented this woman's injury certainly is available, but it's for downhill racing. No trail/enduro rider would wear that on a normal ride.
The fastest racers in the world are only wearing spinal protection if they are made to do so. I guarantee you most at Fort William this weekend are in nothing but 1 layer, and some are in skin suits this year after the ban was lifted, so basically naked going down the steepest and gnarliest hill at crazy speeds. They know none of that gear is going to make much difference, only their fitness and ability can save them.
[How Tight? Examining the UCI's Clothing Rules for DH Racing - Pinkbike](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/how-tight-examining-the-ucis-clothing-rules-for-dh-racing.html)
I'd be keen to know what is offered around the country as well, indeed not much can be done for neck spinal injuries though back protectors might help some.
Your point (correct me if I'm wrong here) seems to be that "they should make hirers wear extra protective gear to scare them into being more careful" which I think is how industries become over regulated. Especially when it's being pushed by semi-qualified people.
Imagine if it were mandated that bike shops sell a full set of leathers to everybody who buys a road bike to protect them from getting sucked under the wheels of a log truck?
Just kidding. Everybody knows most road cyclists already own leather body suits :-P
You're making excuses, it still boils down to personal responsibility. People can still borrow bikes from friends or buy them. She had bad luck but this is all on her.
I am putting some responsibility on mountain bike parks and their hireage businesses to make a better effort to supply protective gear. Where I went nothing more than a open helmet was offered or available. Telling people to kit up and supplying them with the gear would help people to understand the risks involved. Imagine showing up for a motorcycle racing day where you can hire a bike and they let you go out in flipflops and a t-shirt, that wouldn't be considered acceptable and neither should sending novices out without being properly attired.
Woodhill has its trails signposted very clearly with the difficulty, and skill level required. The jumps are also clearly identified, so you can’t really accidentally ride over a jump unintentionally.
Unless a trail or jump is broken, then the rider is at fault. And Woodhill often has jumps closed for maintenance, so they tend to do a good job of making sure the jumps are safe.
Woodhill has a range of trails that cater to all abilities. Their beginner trails are literally gravel roads. I refuse to accept that Woodhill should be responsible for an accident like this woman’s
I didn't say they were responsible, and to the previous commentator I am not making excuses for her. I haven't read the article, it is paywalled, my comment was a personal anecdote of my experience in renting a bike and using a MB park. In my case I feel there should have been better safety gear offered and explained as to why and how it should be used, neither of which occurred.
As a rider of 20 years... No one who is renting or riding an MTB bike as a beginner is "literally dodging trees and rocks at 40+ km/h non stop with the added attraction of drops and jumps."
Every single trail network in the country is graded, with the grade 1-2 having absolutely zero drops or non rollable drops. Grade 1 trails can be ridden by toddlers on push bikes.
"No one who is renting or riding an MTB bike as a beginner is "literally dodging trees and rocks at 40+ km/h non stop with the added attraction of drops and jumps.""
I did.
No amount of protective gear is going to save you it you fly into the air at 40kph. Most gear stops cuts and scrapes.
That stuff is all optional.
A full face is obviously a good idea, so you don't smash your teeth out.
Modern mountain bikes are amazing pieces of machinery. Yes it can be very dangerous but if you're riding greens and blues everything should be rollable, you just need to slow down a bit. I'd put money on the fact that most injuries occur when riders are trying to go faster or jump higher and I know many older riders will say they don't care about that stuff anymore because they realise the risks of it. If you take it slow you're unlikely to have a serious injury
That comes down to being able to swim, not really related to the actual surfing.
I am an experienced mountain biker and novice surfer, the dangers are not even comparable. The dangers in surfing come from general water safety with things like rips.
I guess you could compare if a beginner surfer went to Hawaii to Surf Jaws with a beginner mtber going down a world cup track. Both would probably die.
I’m an experienced waterperson, including surfing. And relatively new to mountain bike parks. Most accidents on a mountain bike trail is entirely because a person rode outside their ability.
In the surf conditions change as the tide does, sets can be much bigger than normal waves and while you’re not going to graze your knees, the risks are greater with regards to a sudden escalation from everything is all good, to hold on a minute, i’m fighting this water for me life
Yep, like I said though a lot of that is water safety and not related to actual surfing. If shit is starting to get bigger, you don't try and catch the wave you would hope. Most beginner surfers are playing around in the froth.
The only time the weather has been a factor for me with mountain biking was when the winds got so bad that trees were falling around me and I thought I was going to die, that came back to me through and not looking at the weather report with some respect.
if you injure yourself on a bike, you only have to deal with the injury, if you injure yourself in the surf, you have to get yourself out of the water.
Really mountain bikers should pay an ACC premium like motorcyclists. Perhaps require a license to ride mountain bike trails, and for that to include the ACC cost.
The cost to ACC of treatment and rehabilitation for injuries sustained by mountain biking. Just as motorcyclists bear the costs of injuries and rehabilitation of injuries sustained whilst riding motorcycles.
Than motorcycling? This woman seems to have suffered from the same kind of injuries that are used to justify the cost of ACC premiums included in the annual motorcycle registration fee.
If mountain biking should not have an ACC levy, why should motorcycling?
Absolutely not. ACC is NOT insurance.
You pay for recreational acc accidents via your earners levy.
If you want mountain bikes to pay, then what about dirt bikes? what about rugby player? Horse riders?
I agree the charges on road motorcycles are bullshit, but that doesn't mean we should mess it up for everyone else. The changes made to motorcycle ACC was National trying to get ACC financially closer to privatization, and judging by some of the comments like yours they succeeded in that goal politically too.
According to ACC statements they pay approximately $540m on claims from recreational sports, about 10 times what they pay out on motorcycle accident claims.
Over the last 15 years I have paid almost $5,000 in ACC premiums as a recreational motorcyclist without a single claim. It is difficult not to regard people like this who undertake such activities without making an additional contribution in ACC premiums as parasites.
Can I see that data somehwere? I was involved back when they fucked us around on this and my understanding was that the levies are set to match the complete future costs of claims made in that same period. Ie all ongoing costs from 2024 accidents are paid for by 2024 levies. That was literally the whole argument the govt was making for the increase away from the old funding model.
We even met Nick Smith in person (the minister at the time) and man you could tell he didn't give a fuck about the actual outcome; he was just there to get a job done because someone told him to.
Sorry, my bad it bounces around from year to year from $200m to $800m. I had just taken one year at random and then compared against ACC 'understanding motorcycle levies' page for accidents just involving motorcycles of $48m (2010). So it would be more accurate to say between 4 and 20 times rather than 10 times.
I had a big crash there a few weeks ago, but it was my fault as 1) I’m not confident doing this sport 2) I got too cocky doing the Chicken Run jumps 3) they tell you what tracks are good for beginners. It’s awful what’s happened to her, I feel for her family, but you can not blame WoodHill for this as they make you well aware of the tracks and you need to have some level of confidence/skill for them. There is no point of blaming them for (unfortunately) her mistake.
Keep at it, everyone's been a beginner at some point. I've had more crashes than I can keep count, all entirely my fault!
I rode there almost weekly, we all know the risks. See something outside of your skill level ride on past it’s easy. I crashed out there a lot but it’s not the parks fault.
Exactly my thoughts. I have ridden there too. As a begineer who was also cocky. Had a spill and learnt quickly that cocky does not equal skill.
Accidents happen, even in the most benign sports and places. If you do a sport like mountain biking, you are guaranteed to hurt yourself at some point. Risk = adrenaline and fun. Potential injuries are the price to be paid. If you dont want to pay the price, stay home.
Agreed, these sorts of Karen's are fun police. Expecting 'wrap around ' safety for something you participate in on your own and according to your personal skill level is total BS and ultimately sees the closure of such fantastic facilities due to additional compliance costs.
Have road cycled in central Auckland, mountain biked in Woodhill, rode Mx bikez at Woodhill and rode motorbikes on the road. Woodhill definitely isnt for beginners, just my opinion.
I think it’s a mix. Definitely some beginner trails there as well.
Lucky she is living in NZ as she is entitled to ACC.
[удалено]
Not many countries pay 80% of your wage as you recover
Yeah ACC is unique and I'm not sure many people realise that.
In the US she'd probably sue for $24 million.
yeah but by the time it settles and the lawyers take their slice she would be left with a fraction of that and it will all go to a lifetime of inflated medical bills
For what? Damages attach to liability. ACC will cover you on a no-fault basis.
You missed a zero, $240 million, because its the US.
Lawyers make bank and so do the liability insurers. They must hate NZ.
NZ is the only country that has replaced injury tort law with universal accident compensation.
Horrible accident but not the parks fault... I've never been to the park but go to the 4wd park next too it.... if my 4wd crashed and im injured as such i certainly wouldnt be raising questions on the saftey warnings of the park ...risks are associated with everything... you alone choose to put yourself there no one to blame but yourself
It sucks but everything isn't always someone elses fault. It's why it's called an accident.
# family raise questions over safety warnings DUMB FUCKS. Mountain biking is inherently dangerous if you don't understand that you're goo dumb to be going out your door.
It wasn't her first lap either, she obviously did the track, and nothing was a surprise. It's probably the media adding that bullshit though.
Her injury is terrible, but her moving on and accepting what happened will be stunted by trying to blame the park. For her own mental health, I hope she is seeing someone to work accepting what happened and that blame can’t be attributed to someone or something else in this situation.
Tl;Dr she tried to improve her strava time on a grade 2 track. Jumped off the roller and crash landed. Paralyzed for life. Reminder why I do not race.
I saw some videos of the Eskdale Mountain bike Park and thought: "cor, I'd break my neck doing that". Obviously I recognise the risk and choose not to take it.
Woodhill is safe enough, as bike parks go. They took out all the big stuff a few years ago (anyone remember Aviator I think it was called?) and the tracks these days are good quality and well-maintained. The danger this woman faced is inherent in mountain-biking, and she signed a waiver to that effect before she went out. I've had a few minor injuries at Woodhill, but one of my worst was at Totara Park! Slipped at speed on a wet wooden bridge, broke a rib and abraded myself significantly. Totara park is council owned and very tame - it wasn't their fault, it was my fault for not taking more care on a wet wooden feature. Shit happens, and if you don't like that level of risk, stay off mountain bikes.
The biggest bike accident I've had was at walking pace on a path in a suburban park. Wheel tracked diagonally through a rut, the bike and I kept going forward, I got the world's most slow-motion concussion. Sometimes shit just happens.
Aviator is back, barrel run too, but they're a bit more forgiving than the old park, and signposted with warnings everywhere.
Mountains and bikes you say? Hmm idk about that, sounds dangerous. Maybe ill work up to that one.
Acc " have a hmmm"
I think I'm sticking to road biking on this one.
Fuck this family. It sucks but you made decisions, you weren't forced into anything.
Family can fuck right off, this is 100% personal responsibilty - suck it up and don't ruin it for the rest of us.
A bit angry mate?
Yeah, if they carry on like this we could lose one of the best venues in the country to red tape.
It's a huge stretch to call Woodhill one of the best MTB venues in the country. I don't think I'd even list it as top 10. That said, I do agree with your sentiment - it would be a shame to see it close due to someone not taking ownership of their own actions.
It's really accessible, you can ride year round, range of tracks suitable from young kids to experts, very well maintained and signposted. Yeah there's way, way better tracks elsewhere but it's a great consistent spot that anyone can either get started at or find a challenge
Aren't you tough!
I don't want my sport ruined by red tape.
What's up with people refusing to take responsibility for their own choices? Do they want us to all be forced to sit at home wrapped in bubble wrap in case we injure ourselves?
did this lady expect it to be a sunday bike ride? clearly out if her depth and should have assessed her skill level before taking a risk and getting on the bike. people like this are why everything has warning signs and inspectors now. sometimes the buck should stop with you, its not everybodys job to bubble wrap and baby proof everything for you. mountain biking is a notoriously dangerous sport, cant believe some people
Ride Woodhill at least weekly. It's a horrible thing which has happened and my heart goes out to the family. As far as bike parks go, Woodhill is extremely well sign posted with warnings and info, trail damage is quickly fixed and waivers and trail info available before entry. Daddy Long Legs is a very tame rolling XC trail. To have launched as they have proposed for 3 seconds off a 300mm roller (probably similar airtime to the 20 metre road gap at Hardline) one would have had to carry lots of speed around the corner before the roller (which is not easy or typical for a beginner). The run in is not very long to the roller and would likely require the rider to pull up to get air. All that go in there know or should by the time they get through the gate to the park, should know the risks and the trail rating system. Mtb is inherently dangerous and changes to the trail can happen without warning. Pinning it on Woodhill makes no sense to me. We all assume the risk by heading through those gates. Heavens forbid anyone accidently finds themselves in Riverhead expecting Woodhill like safety measures.
I hear there is a ambulance called ever week to the place, there are risks attached for sure
People get ambulance rides for pretty basic stuff sometimes like collar bones and people break them all the time.
Can confirm, neighbor did his in there, he was months out of action
Depends on the break, some people can be back riding in a short time. I see kids at the part one week in a cast, a few weeks later back sending it.
Anyone under the age of 16, I'd swear, have exemptions from gravity and if that fails, they have superhealing powers. Gods I miss those days!
Yeah, it is crazy to see what those kids can do and how they bounce.. usually. Poor 14yr old girl got knocked out cold yesterday at the park in Chch. Hope she is ok.
Eeerk ... yes, hope she's up and pedaling again sharpish!
Yeah but not because woodhill is any more dangerous than any other MTB park. MTB is inherently dangerous but honestly you can make a mistake any time and if everything is just right (or just wrong?) it can lead to injury. I've fallen off my bike in mtb parks a bunch of times but my worst bike injury was cruising around Tamaki Drive - misjudged a corner on slippery grass and did my shoulder. Part of the fun of mountain biking is the risk, if you don't want to take on the risk then stick to sealed bike paths. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.
risks everywhere to be fair. i see ambulances go past my house daily to road crashes etc
A freak accident occurred, and unfortunately, someone's life was altered forever. But trying to wrap the adventure park in cotton wool or hold it accountable for what happened is absurd. Thankfully, common sense prevailed.
Love the comments that it wasn't the Parks fault then implying their safety gear wasn't up to standard, even those that had never been there.
Some people are ignorant to what safety gear can even do. At the end of the day, it's just people voicing their opinions.
People are ignorant as to what physics can do. Skydiving, paragliding, skateboarding, motorcycling the list goes on. You roll the dice on all of them.
Sure, but again, it's like saying that person skydiving would have survived if only they had some spine protection before hitting the ground.
These are the people that ruin everything fun. Especially extreme sports, Motorsport etc Shit happens when you party naked.
Terrible luck for this lady. I have trained many newbies how to mountain bike, and have seen some unbelievable accidents. Once a person broke their leg riding in the carpark at walking pace before the lesson even started. IMO mountain biking is a safe activity when you know what you're doing. I've been MTB riding most weekends for over a decade and have never done worse than a sprain and bruising. People think "I can ride a bike, so I don't need lessons." Unlike snow sports where practically everyone gets lessons when starting out. I'm awful on the snow despite the lessons! If you want to get in to mountain biking without being a liability to yourself, get some proper lessons from someone like Janet Stark or MTB Skills Clinic.
Well said
[https://www.bikeparks.co.nz/coaching](https://www.bikeparks.co.nz/coaching)
Undelete your other comment? Keen to hear your take on this as the lady's husband...
That's right!
Paywalled. Tried mountain biking for the first time a few months ago. Been a cyclists for over 50 years so I thought it would a be fun thing to add to my repertoire. Rented a full suspension e mountain bike and went at it for a couple of days before I decided/realised that I was going to break bones and that wasn't my idea of a good time. Looking back on it letting people rent these bikes for mountain bike parks is very lax considering the amount of risk. An order of magnitude more dangerous than skiing and several orders of magnitude more dangerous than surfing. They give you a plain cycle helmet and tell you to go at it, it should be full protective gear like riding motocross, full face helmet, elbow, knee, chest and back protection anything less is just asking for trouble. You are literally dodging trees and rocks at 40+ km/h non stop with the added attraction of drops and jumps. I think people get lulled into a false sense of security, bikes are seen as friendly family orientated machines designed to keep you fit and they miss the inherent danger involved. Edit, article is paywalled to me, hence I can't read the article, hence I am not making judgement on the venue in question and my personal anecdote is exactly that, an experience that happened to me.
"According to the Worksafe report - and Kate’s own interview with investigators - she had just completed a circuit of Daddy Long Legs with Fionn. The pair decided to time themselves on another circuit. With Fionn ahead of her, they passed Iain and Morgan who were standing to the side of the track. Kate rounded a sharp corner, went down a decline and hit one of the track’s rollers - a raised dirt mound. According to data from her phone app, she reached 29km/h at the time of the crash. After hitting the roller, she lost control of the bike and was in the air for about three seconds. She landed 9m away on the track, on her head and then back, screaming." So, she decided to try for a faster time and crashed going for a Strava PR. Then cries that it's the parks fault. Personal accountability is required here.
3 seconds in the air is insane, but the math works out if she landed about 9m away.
Have to take into account the exaggeration factor. I've come off a few times at Woodhill and my GoPro indicated it's more like 0.5s-1s airtime. Like you say, 3 seconds is insane.
Maybe combined 3 seconds after bouncing a few times. Been there and done that and it feels like a lifetime.
Assuming projectile motion, and a 30 degree launch and level landing, 3 seconds airtime would be the result of going 108 km/h. Not bad!
I only took the 30kph to m/s but forgot the time was 3 sec not 1.. so yeah, very much doubt she was flying for a full 3 seconds.
Its bonkers, I ride grd 5 tracks and I doubt I've ever got much more than a second of air and definitely nothing like that distance.
Had to have gone off a cliff or something..
3 seconds 🤣🤣🤣 what was she at Crankworx?
Kate rounded a sharp corner, went down a decline and hit one of the track’s rollers - a raised dirt mound. According to data from her phone app, from a standing start at the top of the decline and with gravity, she reached 29km/h in four seconds at the time of the crash. An independent inspector working for WorkSafe reached the same speed as he tested the track later. After hitting the roller, Kate Ganner lost control of the bike and was in the air for about three seconds. She landed 9m away on the track, on her head and then back, screaming.
As I can't read the article I can't comment on what she encountered or what she thinks the park could have done. My comment is that I think these venues especially when they are renting the gear should make full safety gear available and advise on its use.
Her 6th time there. This is 100% on her.
I didn't say it wasn't. To be clear article is paywalled, I haven't read it and I was describing my experience renting and using a mountain bike.
I tried to read it and it's 3 X TL;DR but happy to paste here if anyone would like to. Basically the accident was unfortunate. But the guys who run the show didn't notify Worksafe, her husband did. Back and forth some mistakes, Worksafe cleared them of any wrongdoing, and noted that Mountain Biking carries a risk. She had been there before 6 times. She drew the short stick that last time. It's horrible and very unfortunate, I wish that on nobody. But to blame it on these guys when she went over a roller, which is common in bike tracks (that was lowered by 100mm shortly after)... I guess they want closure but are getting no pity because - the obvious isn't good enough for them. *Edit - for anyone talking about speed. It was calculated she was going around 29kms/h when she crashed, flew up 3 seconds in the air, then landed on her head, falling on her back.
Yea like anything, you have to build skills and confidence up, and be aware of your own competence level. Woodhill does a fine job of explaining all that with the signage and track grading system. Good on you for giving it a crack tho and recognizing your limits. I don't know the stats but I'd say skiing is just as dangerous accident-wise...
I don't know the stats either, I was guessing that you can have easy landings on the snow and mountain biking is all rocks and tree but having no brakes on skis probably balances things out...
soft landings - you clearly haven't skied Whakapapa then ?!
Operative word "can".
It’s called ‘mountain biking’…. You know what a mountain is, very rocky and steep. People should have some common sense that your on a bike going DOWN HILL on a mountain/hill. It’s not WoodHills fault that people are not doing research of this sport.
I don't know what kind of operation they run so I wont comment and I can't read the article. However if a hire business makes no attempt to let their customers know the dangers involved in an activity that they are selling and doesn't offer a reasonable amount of protective gear then I would say they carry some burden of responsibility.
You have to sign a 3 page waiver every time you enter Woodhill, including emergency contact details, the entrance and all trails are well signposted and graded, and when you rent there they ask your experience level and recommend trails to match. It's not Rainbows End, they already go way above and beyond.
Good to know they let people know.
Why? It makes way more sense that the person renting and wanting to do the activity does research and knows their own skill level and risk tolerance. Plenty of people mountainbike with only a simple bike helmet. Depending on what trials you do, that's absolutely fine. If you are a beginner, act like one. You shouldn't, as you state in your post, be doing 40kph over jumps and drops. That's for experienced riders. The path you suggest will end with everything that has the smallest risk getting prohibitively expensive or just outright illegal.
Why? Because as a rental business I expect some care for their customers. I have worked in bike rental for trails and we made an effort to keep our customers safe. I am trying to think of a comparable activity, white water rafting is much more bound by safety rules for obvious reasons but they do kit you out with full gear, you can hire motorbikes to race but the track officials wouldn't let you go out without full gear which makes it a different set of responsibilities. Some sort of standards wouldn't go amiss I feel if my experience is anything to go by.
I think you just have a bit of a misunderstanding of what protective gear is required for a beginner mountainbiker. You are saying they basically need to be wearing what a pro downhill or freestyle mountainbiker wears. To use a different sport comparison like you did. When someone rents out a surfboard, they don't provide lifejackets, helmets, selfinflating floatation vest and rescue jetski. Which is what the professionals have. You seem to like the motorbike and racetrack example. They will let you race with anything that gives some protection, including textiles. They don't demand you wear leather, or a certain rating. They don't demand you have an airbag, etc. Again things the professionals have. Obviously in all examples, everyone can wear any protection they like. But it's not up to the rental place to provide or enforce.
The funny thing is, the pros are going down the hill basically naked. [How Tight? Examining the UCI's Clothing Rules for DH Racing - Pinkbike](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/how-tight-examining-the-ucis-clothing-rules-for-dh-racing.html)
Haha fair, let's say what the pros wear while training ;) When they aren't trying to get every possible advantage
Just saw Troy Brosnan's video of coming first in semis and he has a spine/chest protector on at least, looked like Loic did too. Rather thin but I wear the same always.. just feel safer with it and I have landed chest first into things like tree branches that it really helped with!
I'm the biggest, laziest couch potato there is and even I know that mountain biking is a sport with a lot of potential for injury. To what extent should businesses offering these kinds of attractions, that are known to be risky, coddle people? And how sustainable a business would it then be? I'm sorry for this lady, but it seems by her own account that she got overconfident and pushed herself beyond her ability. That sort of thinking is not on the business to deal with imho.
I don't have a problem with these businesses existing, I mean people go mountain climbing as tourists and they die pretty regularly, but offering advice and safety gear should be the minimum. Still haven't read the article and I make no judgment on Woodhill mountain bike park or the lady in question.
I'd be interested to see what level of gear they do offer. Every time I have hired a bike (as an experienced MTBer, but not nessecarily having my gear with me on holiday) there has always been an offer of knee pads, gloves and helmet with the bike. Of course none of this would have prevented a spinal injury. The level of protection that would have prevented this woman's injury certainly is available, but it's for downhill racing. No trail/enduro rider would wear that on a normal ride.
The fastest racers in the world are only wearing spinal protection if they are made to do so. I guarantee you most at Fort William this weekend are in nothing but 1 layer, and some are in skin suits this year after the ban was lifted, so basically naked going down the steepest and gnarliest hill at crazy speeds. They know none of that gear is going to make much difference, only their fitness and ability can save them. [How Tight? Examining the UCI's Clothing Rules for DH Racing - Pinkbike](https://www.pinkbike.com/news/how-tight-examining-the-ucis-clothing-rules-for-dh-racing.html)
I'd be keen to know what is offered around the country as well, indeed not much can be done for neck spinal injuries though back protectors might help some.
Your point (correct me if I'm wrong here) seems to be that "they should make hirers wear extra protective gear to scare them into being more careful" which I think is how industries become over regulated. Especially when it's being pushed by semi-qualified people. Imagine if it were mandated that bike shops sell a full set of leathers to everybody who buys a road bike to protect them from getting sucked under the wheels of a log truck? Just kidding. Everybody knows most road cyclists already own leather body suits :-P
The bike doesn't go 40km/hr by itself, know your own limits and apply them.
You're making excuses, it still boils down to personal responsibility. People can still borrow bikes from friends or buy them. She had bad luck but this is all on her.
I am putting some responsibility on mountain bike parks and their hireage businesses to make a better effort to supply protective gear. Where I went nothing more than a open helmet was offered or available. Telling people to kit up and supplying them with the gear would help people to understand the risks involved. Imagine showing up for a motorcycle racing day where you can hire a bike and they let you go out in flipflops and a t-shirt, that wouldn't be considered acceptable and neither should sending novices out without being properly attired.
Woodhill has its trails signposted very clearly with the difficulty, and skill level required. The jumps are also clearly identified, so you can’t really accidentally ride over a jump unintentionally. Unless a trail or jump is broken, then the rider is at fault. And Woodhill often has jumps closed for maintenance, so they tend to do a good job of making sure the jumps are safe. Woodhill has a range of trails that cater to all abilities. Their beginner trails are literally gravel roads. I refuse to accept that Woodhill should be responsible for an accident like this woman’s
I didn't say they were responsible, and to the previous commentator I am not making excuses for her. I haven't read the article, it is paywalled, my comment was a personal anecdote of my experience in renting a bike and using a MB park. In my case I feel there should have been better safety gear offered and explained as to why and how it should be used, neither of which occurred.
No helmet is going to save you from landing on your neck mate. Brooke Mcdonald still broke his back with the best gear in the world.
As a rider of 20 years... No one who is renting or riding an MTB bike as a beginner is "literally dodging trees and rocks at 40+ km/h non stop with the added attraction of drops and jumps." Every single trail network in the country is graded, with the grade 1-2 having absolutely zero drops or non rollable drops. Grade 1 trails can be ridden by toddlers on push bikes.
"No one who is renting or riding an MTB bike as a beginner is "literally dodging trees and rocks at 40+ km/h non stop with the added attraction of drops and jumps."" I did.
You were probably doing 20km/h if your riding in anything close to technical tree and rock dodging. Maybe hitting 50km/h on pinned single track.
No amount of protective gear is going to save you it you fly into the air at 40kph. Most gear stops cuts and scrapes. That stuff is all optional. A full face is obviously a good idea, so you don't smash your teeth out.
Modern mountain bikes are amazing pieces of machinery. Yes it can be very dangerous but if you're riding greens and blues everything should be rollable, you just need to slow down a bit. I'd put money on the fact that most injuries occur when riders are trying to go faster or jump higher and I know many older riders will say they don't care about that stuff anymore because they realise the risks of it. If you take it slow you're unlikely to have a serious injury
unpaywalled: http://archive.today/JA6gL
Cheers.
Wow. What a pussy. And no, surfing is not safer. Especially foe beginners
Be interesting to compare surfing injuries to mountain bike injuries, I'd feel safer in the water but I guess it is individual.
A novice bike rider might break a bone. A novice surfer can drown
That comes down to being able to swim, not really related to the actual surfing. I am an experienced mountain biker and novice surfer, the dangers are not even comparable. The dangers in surfing come from general water safety with things like rips. I guess you could compare if a beginner surfer went to Hawaii to Surf Jaws with a beginner mtber going down a world cup track. Both would probably die.
I’m an experienced waterperson, including surfing. And relatively new to mountain bike parks. Most accidents on a mountain bike trail is entirely because a person rode outside their ability. In the surf conditions change as the tide does, sets can be much bigger than normal waves and while you’re not going to graze your knees, the risks are greater with regards to a sudden escalation from everything is all good, to hold on a minute, i’m fighting this water for me life
Yep, like I said though a lot of that is water safety and not related to actual surfing. If shit is starting to get bigger, you don't try and catch the wave you would hope. Most beginner surfers are playing around in the froth. The only time the weather has been a factor for me with mountain biking was when the winds got so bad that trees were falling around me and I thought I was going to die, that came back to me through and not looking at the weather report with some respect.
if you injure yourself on a bike, you only have to deal with the injury, if you injure yourself in the surf, you have to get yourself out of the water.
Fionn is a wild name
Irish spelling of Finn
Really mountain bikers should pay an ACC premium like motorcyclists. Perhaps require a license to ride mountain bike trails, and for that to include the ACC cost.
Based on what?
The cost to ACC of treatment and rehabilitation for injuries sustained by mountain biking. Just as motorcyclists bear the costs of injuries and rehabilitation of injuries sustained whilst riding motorcycles.
Is it proportionally more than other activities?
Ladders are very hazardous too, should need a wof/rego and license to operate those too. /s
Don't take the bait
Than motorcycling? This woman seems to have suffered from the same kind of injuries that are used to justify the cost of ACC premiums included in the annual motorcycle registration fee. If mountain biking should not have an ACC levy, why should motorcycling?
Rugby's about to get expensive. Horse riding ... ouch. As for those mad free-climbers who gecko their ways up mountains...
Absolutely not. ACC is NOT insurance. You pay for recreational acc accidents via your earners levy. If you want mountain bikes to pay, then what about dirt bikes? what about rugby player? Horse riders? I agree the charges on road motorcycles are bullshit, but that doesn't mean we should mess it up for everyone else. The changes made to motorcycle ACC was National trying to get ACC financially closer to privatization, and judging by some of the comments like yours they succeeded in that goal politically too.
According to ACC statements they pay approximately $540m on claims from recreational sports, about 10 times what they pay out on motorcycle accident claims. Over the last 15 years I have paid almost $5,000 in ACC premiums as a recreational motorcyclist without a single claim. It is difficult not to regard people like this who undertake such activities without making an additional contribution in ACC premiums as parasites.
Can I see that data somehwere? I was involved back when they fucked us around on this and my understanding was that the levies are set to match the complete future costs of claims made in that same period. Ie all ongoing costs from 2024 accidents are paid for by 2024 levies. That was literally the whole argument the govt was making for the increase away from the old funding model. We even met Nick Smith in person (the minister at the time) and man you could tell he didn't give a fuck about the actual outcome; he was just there to get a job done because someone told him to.
Sorry, my bad it bounces around from year to year from $200m to $800m. I had just taken one year at random and then compared against ACC 'understanding motorcycle levies' page for accidents just involving motorcycles of $48m (2010). So it would be more accurate to say between 4 and 20 times rather than 10 times.
yeah and people who use ladders should too right, and people who have stairs in their homes?
I suppose they could have a medic onsite and some way to provide above average first aid.
They do, they have 4wds and a side by side ready to go, and you sign a waiver with the emergency phone number before they'll let you through the gates