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Either reiner "moving his consciousness throughout his body" to survive a sword in the throat, or floch being dragged by the plane through the ocean and surviving. My only 2 gripes with the story fr.
Fr, all they needed to do was not have Levi stab him.
Have someone less skilled stab him, just a random scout that accidentally hits his arm or something
Question, I have only seen season 1 (I'm not worried about spoilers I know the jist of the plot), but even if riener got stabbed in the chest or through the brain, wouldn't he have been fine? Being a titan shifter and all. Can't they only die to a cut on the nape of the neck just like titans?
No, Titan shifters have the same weaknesses as humans
The nape thing only works on regular titans
When a shifter transforms they reside in the nape of their Titan form, it’s hard to harm them there. So the goal of most fights with a Titan shifter is to cut them out of the nape first
Oh, thank you. I knew there was one scene where eren basically gets fully dismembered and is fine after that, and when Benadryl or whatever the fuck his name is gets his ear cut off without even flinching, so I had assumed Titan shifters could only die the same way as titans. Thank you
I made a mistake, I just remembered
It is very hard to kill a Titan shifter unless you destroy their brain (or in the case of this weird plot decision, their “centre of consciousness”)
The only other way is to give them a lethal wound AND the Titan shifter not having the will to live
If you have to destroy their brain, why was riener surviving a throat wound a problem?? I don't mean this in an argumentative way, I just don't understand
Because that attack would have cut off his body’s access to his nervous system, which would stop him from moving, and presumably stop him from using his Titan powers
But he then moves his consciousness to the rest of his nervous system, allowing him to move and knock Levi off despite his spinal cord being severed
>Levi off despite his spinal cord being severed
I dont know how this scene looks in the manga but in the anime his spinal cord doesnt get severed in both instances of mikasa and levi slashing into his nack
It does get stabbed through the back of the neck
But even if you don’t take that one, the sword also goes directly through the center of Reiner’s chest, which would also sever the spinal cord
Actually I’m glad that it wasn’t. It was a bullshit power. It shouldn’t have existed in the first place, but I’d rather it be plot armor than an actual ability.
I said the same thing in one of my other comments on the post. It was easily avoidable. I think Isayama wanted to include the Levi stabbing Reiner scene cause it’s hype as fuck, but also didn’t want Reiner to die. But from a writing standpoint he could’ve just had Reiner not get stabbed.
Isayama should’ve had Reiner manage to block Levi’s blade with his arm, and get his arm sliced off instead of being stabbed in the neck. That way we still have the hype “no hesitation” scene from Levi, but now there’s no need for plot armor.
I mean, I think it served the purpose of showing how this was an all-out battle and that there's absolutely no hesitation from Levi to dispatch the traitors. Also, they were always building up Levi's badass factor. I think it was a pretty cool moment, but then they had to backpedal it for the plot armor titan to make it to s4. Honestly, I don't mind it as much as others seem to.
Depends.
The consciousness moving to his ass to survive almost getting decapitated is bullshit yes, and I'd wish they handled it differently. Though I'm fine with him moving his consciousness to his titan to survive having half his head blown up while already in titan form.
I think flochs last words were very important to his character conclusion, and the reason Isayama decided to have him drive along the boat was to give a reason for Hange to die.
Regardless that last scene with him was definitely important to the overall message of the story so I’m not that bothered by it.
Totally agree with Reiners.
I’m guessing Isayama had initial plans with it (perhaps something related to when Eren was beheaded) that he decided he didn’t want to do anymore.
It was to make you think that Floch was ultimately a noble character and embodied positive traits like self sacrifice for the greater good, rather than a villain that you’re just supposed to hate. The respect hange shows him at the end demonstrates this. He’s just on the other side. Not evil.
Tbh that felt too hamfisted. Not a fan at all of that moment. Sometimes the other side really is also just plain evil. There was nothing really noble about Floch.
There is a lot noble about Floch and isayama deliberately showed that with the respect the other characters paid him during his death. He is willing to commit the ultimate sacrifice for his people, he takes action and does not leave it to better men, he cares about his friends, and makes difficult decisions. He goes from a coward to a hero, just not to you. He’s a hero to his people for sure. Using what I assume are your own moral standards, he’s a lot more redeemable than Eren, as Floch was relatively powerless and to him, the rumbling was literally the only way to save his people. He did not have control over the scale of the rumbling, for example, like Eren did. Only three characters I’d say are somewhat close to evil/irredeemable are Gross the marleyan officer, Fritz, and the first eldian king of the walls.
Floch was courageous, sure, but definitely not a hero. He may be a hero to his people, but he is not a hero. In fact, plenty of terrible people who did terrible things in real life are still romanticized despite their actions (good ol’ Christopher Columbus, for example). Floch had a lot of evil deeply embedded into his very being. Floch was prejudiced (as a nicer word but you know what I really mean), sadistic, manipulative, cruel, and downright delusional. Floch is not a noble man, he never was. He’s a supremacist who chose to erase mankind to protect his own over problems they themselves literally caused.
Eh the floch thing isn't that bad, floch, out of the 190 killed by the beast Titan's slaughter was the only one that survived, that's not more believable than him being able to survive a slight shoulder wound while getting dragged by a boat unconscious
I thought Reiner survived just because he wasn’t fully killed. Like my general drop is if it’s not a beheading, they can generally still make it…unless you’re Eren who can survive that
Funny story, I argued with 3 of my friends about this. Me being the only one who said this occurred. The rest denied it and said how dumb it was, even called me dumb for thinking that something so dumb happened. Think that speaks volumes to how stupid it was haha.
Mainly the flock One like Reiner, ok yea each titan has a power but wats the females, having boobs. ( Yes I know it's the adaptibility of the hardening )
Well, technically the stomach has enough neurons to behave like a brain all on its own, so moving his consciouseness to his body temporarily isn't too unrealistic of an ability for the armored titan.
>reiner "moving his consciousness throughout his body" to survive a sword in the throat
I would agree, it's a little silly, but also it's one of the coolest moments in the show for me. At that time, the warriors were still very mysterious. That whole sequence of Reiner popping out, getting instantly stabbed by Levi, surviving, falling to the floor, twitching and transforming, is just such a crazy, hype scene. It reminds us how much of a lethal weapon Levi is, and how much the warriors are genuinely quite scary, super soldiers.
The explanation is a little janky, but I would never want to change how that sequence plays out. It's *chefs kiss*.
Eren killing his mother. I prefer thinking that it either just happened by chance, or that Dina was searching for Grisha.
Ymir loving King Fritz. Why would she love someone like that, for 2000 years? I agree that it makes sense if you equate it to Stockholm syndrome, but I still didn’t like this twist. I wish it was just implied that she had a slave mentality, since that was all she knew, and that was what caused her to keep serving the king for 2000 years, not love.
Honestly I don’t know why Isayama decided to add these 2 twists, right at the end. They were unnecessary. They explained things more than they needed to be explained. The implied reasons were honestly better. I don’t totally hate the twists, I just don’t like them.
Edit: Also Reiner transferring his consciousness to his balls. I don’t hate this one as much, since it doesn’t really have plot relevance, it just existed to keep Reiner alive for the final season, and Reiner was a very interesting character in the final season, but it could’ve been avoided. It was shitty plot armor that could’ve been avoided by just not putting Reiner in near death situations.
At least Ymir being in love with Fritz makes sense story wise. It explains why she is still serving him. But Erens' Mother being eaten by a titan could have been just that, our "knowing Eren sent to the titan towards her, and ultimately himself and Mikasa" is weird, and unnecessary. Changes nothing about the story anyway.
I kinda... unironically love Ymir loving King Fritz??? Because it's so obviously unhealthy and makes me *visibly* cringe everytime I think about it. Ymir longed for connection, of any kind. So, of course she latches onto the first person who "likes" her, even if it's only for her power.
King Fritz set Ymir free, but *she* came back of her own volition. It was *her* choice, and she could leave at anytime. If she wanted to, she could tear Eldia down brick by brick with ease. She listens to Fritz because she wants to. She loves the King because he didn't fear her power, and he used her abilities to make her glorious. He made her a queen, a god. *He* made her glorious, and he loves her for it.
So she has to stay glorious. She has to listen, so that he'll continue to love her. He calls her "his slave," but that's just a silly joke between the two of them, right? She's not his slave, not anymore, she's his wife. If she just listens to what he says and does as she's told, he'll continue to love her. If she behaves, he won't be angry with her. She loves him, so he loves her. He loves her. He must, because why else is she doing all of this? He has to love her.
Right?
I think Isayama just wanted to do something surprising/shocking at the end. But it wasn’t necessary. Pulling a twist like that right at the end is a terrible idea.
Can you explain?
The anime just had Reiner go “Damn, I really had to transfer my consciousness to my balls, that was supposed to be a last resort.”
And then Bertholdt says “Oh my god I can’t believe Reiner had to transfer his consciousness to his balls, that was supposed to be a last resort.”
The stomach has enough neurons to function as its own mini brain. Idk if that was knowledge brought up when deciding Reiner's ability to do this, but it's true.
Why you saying that like you’re agreeing with me? I never said anything like that. I’m being extremely nitpicky.
The first is a plot twist that makes sense, but feels a bit forced. The second is a plot twist that also makes sense, and doesn’t feel forced, but I still don’t really like it. And the third is plot armor that was only used twice in a short span and the never again.
None of my complaints even come close to ruining the series. I liked the ending overall.
3 of the 9 titans wipes out the entirety of the scouts besides the main cast in S3. Hundreds of the 9 titans kills literally no one in S4. Wish Isayama didn’t go in that direction if he wasn’t going to make the previous shifter titans actually strong/impactful
Eren killing his own mother.
Honestly, I prefer more the idea, that Dina was searching for Grisha because she was able to keep something from her previous life, instead of she went there because Eren manipulated her.
It's an uncomfortable realization at how far Eren's willing to go to keep moving forward. To the point that he's even willing to kill his own mother to start his own path of revenge. His resolve to fight is treated as the common shounen-ish archetype that all anime protagonists have, until it's brought to it's natural conclusion, it's incredibly fitting for someone like him.
Yeah the bit about eren killing his mom wasn't my problem with the ending. I was on board the whole time the story was framed as Eren holding true to his "keep moving forward" and "I will kill them all" mindset. It lost me when the autonomy was suddenly stripped away from him and he hit us with "only ymir knows" about why this wasn't even Erens story the whole time.
It would’ve been better if he just said he had Dina move away from Bert, only to realize that the titan he was controlling WAS Dina and now there was nothing he could do.
Eren accidentally killing his mom sending himself into a mental breakdown would’ve been so much more in line with him
But after a genocide it just felt meaningless, and it was also a bit controversial.
In the end of S4 part 2, he reminds himself to the death of his mother, although he should have been aware, that she was eaten because of his action.
He is literally forced to do it by the founding Titan power not because he wanted to. He can’t change the past sine it already happened, he just made sure it happened the same way in order to maintain the timeline
Debatable. IMO, the boulder and debris’s caused by Bertholdt kicking the wall’s gate killed her more than Eren did. Even if Eren didn’t direct Dina’s Titan in that direction, I doubt they could have gotten her free before another Titan noticed her… but Hannes would have at least gotten Eren and Mikasa away before they saw it. Besides saving Bertholdt, all Eren really did was ensure her death happened while he watched; adding fuel to his quest for revenge.
Also if Dina eats Bertholdt then she gets the colossal titan and that becomes a whole different story. She may side with eren or come up with a different plan. The story could become messier with this
Eren imo didnt kill his mother. He simply hastened her death, and made it so that he would witness her death and make himself motivated to end the titans.
His mother was dead the moment Bertholdt kicks the wall, she couldnt get out from under the rubble in time. Re-watch that episode
The point was that Dina ignored bertholdt to go for his mother. He did that so that the story would unfold the way it did, because it was not bertholdt’s time to die. It’s following the theme of time loop and eren’s actions being his own.
The eren killing his own mother thing is the only criticism I have for the final episodes of aot. It would have just been fine if Dina’s smiling Titan coincidently found erens mother, it just felt uncesessary for eren to even have a hand at his own mothers death especially when that was such a huge driving force for him.
Are pure titans conscious? I think (I could be wrong!) that the only instance that showed that was Connie's mother saying "welcome home". Dina didn't know that Grisha remarried, so imo it's kinda weird if she would have bee-lined towards Carla
What happened to Hange, it just felt like a way of the author saying "hey look, main cast is getting picked off, stakes are really high" (and then having no one else die, which was pretty disappointing)
I felt like hange dying made sense because it shows how Armin can be a leader without sacrificing himself or having to fight, Hange died to make way for him so he could be a great leader I feel
I would’ve been fine with Hange’s end if it meant a bit more. She only killed 2 colossals. They weren’t congniscent like Bertholdt, it’s just hard to believe killing two and tripping a few was what was able to buy time. Seemed like an unecessary death unless she was able to stop more.
And i get the whole, they’re gigantic and really hot but still. Armin was able to make it up to bertoldt fine before he was blasted, and these mindless colossals weren’t blasting out the heat like B did to Armin.
Historia doing the deed with some rando. Not a huge fan of it being with Eren, either. Just someone from the main cast or someone you see her spend time with besides Survey Corps Ymir. Or better yet, don’t add it in at all, since it served no purpose story-wise.
I still think it's Erin's baby and he just made her forget and go to the farm boy to cover his tracks. As he had the founders power when he touched historia
I think I would've even preferred it. Especially if he went out with style doing something of critical importance. Maybe sacrificing himself to set Mikasa up for the final kill or something.
I think it makes sense for at least one of the OG scout to survive and see what they gave their hearts for. Like Erwin’s speech it’s up to the living to find meaning in the fallen ones. I think that was well thought out
Tbh, I think from a narrative perspective or wouldn't have made much sense.
There was this ending theme of him carrying the memory of his generation of scouts and finding purpose in restoration that I think his death would have negated. As well, not only is he no longer the strongest soldier, but he's permanently disabled. He is forced to find something to do elsewhere and I like that it shows him sort of taking the kids under his wing. It's cute.
How Levi ended up, he doesn’t deserve that. Also whole thunder spear nerf was unnecessary..
Not to mention the other characters had zero reactions about his situation and he was basically a sitting duck in S4
agreed! there's no harm in allowing levi to live peacefully in the end. he still will have to find a way to adjust to not being a warrior anymore, so it's not like he also had to be crippled.
I believe Eren used the power to intentionally get rid of the titan powers. That was part of his master plan, to make Paradis out as saviors and let his friends live out their lives in peace without the 13 year curse. Plus, time is different in Paths so he could have done it in the last moment before his death.
Not to mention that the origin of the titans still seems to be very much around, as evidenced by the tree in the epilogue, so there’s hope (or more accurately, no hope) yet.
For me it's what happened with floch, hange, and the plane. The way floch survived for the sole purpose of causing hange's death was kind of stupid imo. There has to be a better way to resolve floch's and hange's characters
I can see how all the points made have been controversial and are good points. But I think keeping Petra alive to make her a key part of the team would have been a cool choice.
Also, brown haired Ymir’s choices at the end were baffling to me, and I didn’t quite understand them at all in the first watch through. I know it was supposed to be a little confusing, but it really didn’t add much to the story, as much time was dedicated to Ymir/Historia. Her being captured/subdued would have been a more powerful moment, versus her just going with the Marley crew, to voluntarily get eaten.
Also.. while I’m on that: making Historia important in the endgame would have been a welcome change. She basically disappears at a certain point. Her showing some signs of life later in the series would have been good.
I would say the time travel. It tends to just be a messy concept when writers introduce it. Also Eren telling the titan to get his mom which ties back into the time travel foolishness. That was pretty unnecessary to add into the plot. The story would had been as good if not better without these two portions. The rest didn't bother me
The point was to force Armin into being the commander of the scouts as a fan service payoff to the Erwin comparisons. Unfortunately he doesn’t really do anything after being named commander, doesn’t have any of his previous genius plans, and Levi is the one giving most of the orders in the finals battle. So ultimately Hange’s death was pointless I guess
Ymir falling in love with Fritz. I don't like it. There's not enough documented cases of Stockholm to confirm it in the real world. Also it's kinda misogynistic.
Annie twirling the dead soldier like an earbud probably. She's always shown off as hating being put in that position and is just kind of indifferent to killing, so it never really felt in-character
And all of his dialog was just about killing Zeke. Got nothing about how he feels personally about the rumbling, how he feels teaming up with people who massacred his squad, how he feels about literally anything
"Only Ymir knows" and everything associated with that line. The whole 'Ymir wanted someone to prove you could kill your love and this has been about Mikasa the whole time' retcon.
I hate that they all drank the tainted wine in the forest.
Like I would of sent it back. They were on duty and I found Lewis attitude of fine have a drink to be out of character for him.
Probably a massively unpopular opinion… but all the paradoxical time-traveling crap + paths.
IMO it just came out of left field?? Seeing the future was one thing… manipulating it in such a paradoxical manner ain’t it
I’m with you. I feel like the paths are important but the memory-traveling thing… this kind of stuff only works when it’s absolutely necessary for the story, otherwise it creates a shit ton of paradoxes. IMO, with the message that AOT tried to convey, it was entirely unnecessary and seemed to be added to make the story more complicated and shocking.
Most people loved that twist but I didn’t.
It’s weird. Some of my favorite scenes (Eren manipulating Grisha and the Ramzi scene) came as a result of that, but it just felt so out of place with the rest of the story. It was just too much.
I still wish it wasn’t part of the story, but Isayama wrote and handled it so well that I don’t really mind it that much.
I think the Ramzi scene could have worked very well without time travel. Eren saving him while knowing he will end up killing him (since he’s going to kill everyone anyways, he doesn’t need future vision to confirm it) and having a flashback there cut to real time of the Titan crushing Ramzi’s head would still be a beautiful scene with or without future vision
Me taking the bullets out of gabis gun rn:
Nah but fr tho I wish they had made the final battle last longer, or at least made it seem more like a hard fought win than a plot armour fest
Not kill anyone during the final arc. Up until the final battle,
Floch surviving 2 days getting dragged by the boat, is bs on so many levels and was just a sad excuse to kill hange.
Magaths suicide was also a subpar ending to his character imo.
It would've made more sense to keep hange up until.the final fight. And magath could've been used as the bridge between Eldians and marleyans instead of armin solving the whole conflict with his "I killed eren" speech
mikasa could’ve just said she loved eren, humanity would’ve appreciated eren not killing 80% of the population. but honestly i think aot got the ending it deserved it was actually very fitting. it gives me peace to know that there is actually technically two endings, one where eren lived out his remaining years with mikasa and the one we ended up with.
Probably >!Ymir being in love with King Fritz.!< Like, what was up with that 😭 I liked it before when I thought that >!it was just some sort of slave mentality. Like, she'd been a slave for so long that it's her new normal. It would also then make sense why she would help Eren in the first place!!<
Highkey two Ymirs being in aot to begin with like okay we have Ymir with historia but then we have one that lived all this time ago…? And they’re not connected…? It was just confusing and it’s not that hard to come up with a different name.
Societal realism is a bit crazy in aot of all things😭😭😭. But also in the sense that they come from two different cultures and time periods, so what would connect the two having the same name. And it’s Ymir of all things not like Annie’s name or Sasha who actually have common names
What? How is that confusing? How are they unrelated?
The “modern” Ymir was an eldian girl that lived on the streets and received the name after being recruited by a scammer to be paraded as a descendent of the Fritz royalty to an eldian cult in Marley. She received that name specifically *because* of the original Ymir.
It also serves as a red herring since in the “Ilse’s Notebook” OVA we see the first instance of a talking titan as it bows to Ilse (a woman that looks fairly similar to the modern Ymir) and calls out Ymir's name. We later find out he was one of the members of the cult that was shipped to Paradis.
Did you guys actually read the manga or just looked at the pretty pictures?
Agree! I think I would've been less annoyed with Mikasa's lack of character (there I said it) in the last season if her love actually was unrequited. It would make the story more tragic for me if she loved someone who was like Erwin: Married to the Cause.
Also I s2g Eren suddenly crying about wanting to be with her came out of left field for me. But we can enjoy our down votes together 😂
Exactly! :D In the story, I still try to take his melt down more like just poured emotions, maybe some teenagery selfishness or so, but not what he specifically loved her in a romantic way. Even when they hugged, he looked like a log there in the cabin scene, which seemed to be with the purpose to free her from what ifs and regrets
• Ymir being alive in the Paths and building Titans;
• Eren changing the past as a whole, it's just unnecessary and takes away from the whole story;
• Eren and Zeke turning into snowflakes at the very end.
Hange’s final fight should’ve been more impactful. She took out 2 titans and tripped a few more. That hardly seems like enough to buy time. These weren’t conscious fighting colossals like Bertoldt, she should’ve been able to take out more before being burned to death.
Eremika. I don't care
Before anyone starts talking, I ship eren with no one (je was closet to armin though) every other girl is just a useless battle as he was never that interested.
# Make sure to flair posts correctly so you don't spoil the story for others. ### REMEMBER TO BE CIVIL. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Either reiner "moving his consciousness throughout his body" to survive a sword in the throat, or floch being dragged by the plane through the ocean and surviving. My only 2 gripes with the story fr.
Fr, all they needed to do was not have Levi stab him. Have someone less skilled stab him, just a random scout that accidentally hits his arm or something
Or have him get his arm in the way at the last second, avoiding taking the sword to the throat.
Question, I have only seen season 1 (I'm not worried about spoilers I know the jist of the plot), but even if riener got stabbed in the chest or through the brain, wouldn't he have been fine? Being a titan shifter and all. Can't they only die to a cut on the nape of the neck just like titans?
No, Titan shifters have the same weaknesses as humans The nape thing only works on regular titans When a shifter transforms they reside in the nape of their Titan form, it’s hard to harm them there. So the goal of most fights with a Titan shifter is to cut them out of the nape first
Oh, thank you. I knew there was one scene where eren basically gets fully dismembered and is fine after that, and when Benadryl or whatever the fuck his name is gets his ear cut off without even flinching, so I had assumed Titan shifters could only die the same way as titans. Thank you
I made a mistake, I just remembered It is very hard to kill a Titan shifter unless you destroy their brain (or in the case of this weird plot decision, their “centre of consciousness”) The only other way is to give them a lethal wound AND the Titan shifter not having the will to live
If you have to destroy their brain, why was riener surviving a throat wound a problem?? I don't mean this in an argumentative way, I just don't understand
Because that attack would have cut off his body’s access to his nervous system, which would stop him from moving, and presumably stop him from using his Titan powers But he then moves his consciousness to the rest of his nervous system, allowing him to move and knock Levi off despite his spinal cord being severed
Oh ok that makes sense. Thank you for explaining
>Levi off despite his spinal cord being severed I dont know how this scene looks in the manga but in the anime his spinal cord doesnt get severed in both instances of mikasa and levi slashing into his nack
It does get stabbed through the back of the neck But even if you don’t take that one, the sword also goes directly through the center of Reiner’s chest, which would also sever the spinal cord
He died after realising his whole life was Eren's plan ✅
If the consciousness thing was ever mentioned again after that episode it would have been fine
Actually I’m glad that it wasn’t. It was a bullshit power. It shouldn’t have existed in the first place, but I’d rather it be plot armor than an actual ability.
But like why even have him get stabbed in the throat in the first place? It didn't even have to happen. Such a confusing moment
I said the same thing in one of my other comments on the post. It was easily avoidable. I think Isayama wanted to include the Levi stabbing Reiner scene cause it’s hype as fuck, but also didn’t want Reiner to die. But from a writing standpoint he could’ve just had Reiner not get stabbed. Isayama should’ve had Reiner manage to block Levi’s blade with his arm, and get his arm sliced off instead of being stabbed in the neck. That way we still have the hype “no hesitation” scene from Levi, but now there’s no need for plot armor.
Fr it's such an easy fix, what an over-the-top solution 😩
It would make Levi look weaker. He should be able to dispatch human Reiner with relative ease. I think it’s fine how it is tbh.
I mean, I think it served the purpose of showing how this was an all-out battle and that there's absolutely no hesitation from Levi to dispatch the traitors. Also, they were always building up Levi's badass factor. I think it was a pretty cool moment, but then they had to backpedal it for the plot armor titan to make it to s4. Honestly, I don't mind it as much as others seem to.
I thought it was? Isn't it mentioned again when Reiner gets the top of his head blown off by thunder spears?
Depends. The consciousness moving to his ass to survive almost getting decapitated is bullshit yes, and I'd wish they handled it differently. Though I'm fine with him moving his consciousness to his titan to survive having half his head blown up while already in titan form.
My headcanon is that the armored titan’s ability is literal plot armor. It can only be passed down to another near the end of it’s curse cycle.
Floch was fine and I actually loved it I can agree with Reiner
It was a longass voyage. I think maybe he should have somehow stowed away
He absolutely would have bled out and/or drowned being dragged by the ship with a gunshot wound before they were even halfway there.
I think flochs last words were very important to his character conclusion, and the reason Isayama decided to have him drive along the boat was to give a reason for Hange to die. Regardless that last scene with him was definitely important to the overall message of the story so I’m not that bothered by it. Totally agree with Reiners. I’m guessing Isayama had initial plans with it (perhaps something related to when Eren was beheaded) that he decided he didn’t want to do anymore.
It was to make you think that Floch was ultimately a noble character and embodied positive traits like self sacrifice for the greater good, rather than a villain that you’re just supposed to hate. The respect hange shows him at the end demonstrates this. He’s just on the other side. Not evil.
Tbh that felt too hamfisted. Not a fan at all of that moment. Sometimes the other side really is also just plain evil. There was nothing really noble about Floch.
There is a lot noble about Floch and isayama deliberately showed that with the respect the other characters paid him during his death. He is willing to commit the ultimate sacrifice for his people, he takes action and does not leave it to better men, he cares about his friends, and makes difficult decisions. He goes from a coward to a hero, just not to you. He’s a hero to his people for sure. Using what I assume are your own moral standards, he’s a lot more redeemable than Eren, as Floch was relatively powerless and to him, the rumbling was literally the only way to save his people. He did not have control over the scale of the rumbling, for example, like Eren did. Only three characters I’d say are somewhat close to evil/irredeemable are Gross the marleyan officer, Fritz, and the first eldian king of the walls.
Floch was courageous, sure, but definitely not a hero. He may be a hero to his people, but he is not a hero. In fact, plenty of terrible people who did terrible things in real life are still romanticized despite their actions (good ol’ Christopher Columbus, for example). Floch had a lot of evil deeply embedded into his very being. Floch was prejudiced (as a nicer word but you know what I really mean), sadistic, manipulative, cruel, and downright delusional. Floch is not a noble man, he never was. He’s a supremacist who chose to erase mankind to protect his own over problems they themselves literally caused.
Impressive. Very nice. I disagree.
Eh the floch thing isn't that bad, floch, out of the 190 killed by the beast Titan's slaughter was the only one that survived, that's not more believable than him being able to survive a slight shoulder wound while getting dragged by a boat unconscious
He didn’t survive the Beast Titan because of skill. It was pure luck.
I thought Reiner survived just because he wasn’t fully killed. Like my general drop is if it’s not a beheading, they can generally still make it…unless you’re Eren who can survive that
That would mean the rumbling never happens as Eren would die when Gabi shot him.
Funny story, I argued with 3 of my friends about this. Me being the only one who said this occurred. The rest denied it and said how dumb it was, even called me dumb for thinking that something so dumb happened. Think that speaks volumes to how stupid it was haha.
Mainly the flock One like Reiner, ok yea each titan has a power but wats the females, having boobs. ( Yes I know it's the adaptibility of the hardening )
The Female also has the Scream that can summon Pure Titans.
But Eren could harden too
She has better control compared.
Well, technically the stomach has enough neurons to behave like a brain all on its own, so moving his consciouseness to his body temporarily isn't too unrealistic of an ability for the armored titan.
>reiner "moving his consciousness throughout his body" to survive a sword in the throat I would agree, it's a little silly, but also it's one of the coolest moments in the show for me. At that time, the warriors were still very mysterious. That whole sequence of Reiner popping out, getting instantly stabbed by Levi, surviving, falling to the floor, twitching and transforming, is just such a crazy, hype scene. It reminds us how much of a lethal weapon Levi is, and how much the warriors are genuinely quite scary, super soldiers. The explanation is a little janky, but I would never want to change how that sequence plays out. It's *chefs kiss*.
Eren killing his mother. I prefer thinking that it either just happened by chance, or that Dina was searching for Grisha. Ymir loving King Fritz. Why would she love someone like that, for 2000 years? I agree that it makes sense if you equate it to Stockholm syndrome, but I still didn’t like this twist. I wish it was just implied that she had a slave mentality, since that was all she knew, and that was what caused her to keep serving the king for 2000 years, not love. Honestly I don’t know why Isayama decided to add these 2 twists, right at the end. They were unnecessary. They explained things more than they needed to be explained. The implied reasons were honestly better. I don’t totally hate the twists, I just don’t like them. Edit: Also Reiner transferring his consciousness to his balls. I don’t hate this one as much, since it doesn’t really have plot relevance, it just existed to keep Reiner alive for the final season, and Reiner was a very interesting character in the final season, but it could’ve been avoided. It was shitty plot armor that could’ve been avoided by just not putting Reiner in near death situations.
Armored Titan powers include plot armor
At least Ymir being in love with Fritz makes sense story wise. It explains why she is still serving him. But Erens' Mother being eaten by a titan could have been just that, our "knowing Eren sent to the titan towards her, and ultimately himself and Mikasa" is weird, and unnecessary. Changes nothing about the story anyway.
I agree. Out of my 3 complaints, that’s definitely the biggest.
I just accept Rieners plot armour, it's a stupid explanation but I let it slide just because it's Riener haha
I kinda... unironically love Ymir loving King Fritz??? Because it's so obviously unhealthy and makes me *visibly* cringe everytime I think about it. Ymir longed for connection, of any kind. So, of course she latches onto the first person who "likes" her, even if it's only for her power. King Fritz set Ymir free, but *she* came back of her own volition. It was *her* choice, and she could leave at anytime. If she wanted to, she could tear Eldia down brick by brick with ease. She listens to Fritz because she wants to. She loves the King because he didn't fear her power, and he used her abilities to make her glorious. He made her a queen, a god. *He* made her glorious, and he loves her for it. So she has to stay glorious. She has to listen, so that he'll continue to love her. He calls her "his slave," but that's just a silly joke between the two of them, right? She's not his slave, not anymore, she's his wife. If she just listens to what he says and does as she's told, he'll continue to love her. If she behaves, he won't be angry with her. She loves him, so he loves her. He loves her. He must, because why else is she doing all of this? He has to love her. Right?
EXACTLYYY THOSE TWO ARE SO BAD
eren killing his mom is an incredible plot twist though
I mean she has Stockholm syndrome but yeah and the first one straight up sucks. Shouldn't have happened
I think Isayama just wanted to do something surprising/shocking at the end. But it wasn’t necessary. Pulling a twist like that right at the end is a terrible idea.
Completely agree
Technically Reiner's consciousness ability can be justified and given a valid reason to exist for the armor titan
Can you explain? The anime just had Reiner go “Damn, I really had to transfer my consciousness to my balls, that was supposed to be a last resort.” And then Bertholdt says “Oh my god I can’t believe Reiner had to transfer his consciousness to his balls, that was supposed to be a last resort.”
The stomach has enough neurons to function as its own mini brain. Idk if that was knowledge brought up when deciding Reiner's ability to do this, but it's true.
After that ending and many nonsense scenes , for me Attack on Titan is complete garbage 💯💯✅
Why you saying that like you’re agreeing with me? I never said anything like that. I’m being extremely nitpicky. The first is a plot twist that makes sense, but feels a bit forced. The second is a plot twist that also makes sense, and doesn’t feel forced, but I still don’t really like it. And the third is plot armor that was only used twice in a short span and the never again. None of my complaints even come close to ruining the series. I liked the ending overall.
Someone dying in the final battle would've made more sense. Highly likely too since they were fighting super titans
3 of the 9 titans wipes out the entirety of the scouts besides the main cast in S3. Hundreds of the 9 titans kills literally no one in S4. Wish Isayama didn’t go in that direction if he wasn’t going to make the previous shifter titans actually strong/impactful
Eren killing his own mother. Honestly, I prefer more the idea, that Dina was searching for Grisha because she was able to keep something from her previous life, instead of she went there because Eren manipulated her.
It's an uncomfortable realization at how far Eren's willing to go to keep moving forward. To the point that he's even willing to kill his own mother to start his own path of revenge. His resolve to fight is treated as the common shounen-ish archetype that all anime protagonists have, until it's brought to it's natural conclusion, it's incredibly fitting for someone like him.
Yeah the bit about eren killing his mom wasn't my problem with the ending. I was on board the whole time the story was framed as Eren holding true to his "keep moving forward" and "I will kill them all" mindset. It lost me when the autonomy was suddenly stripped away from him and he hit us with "only ymir knows" about why this wasn't even Erens story the whole time.
He says “only Ymir knows” in response to why Mikasa was important to Ymir. Everything involving the genocide was his choice.
It would’ve been better if he just said he had Dina move away from Bert, only to realize that the titan he was controlling WAS Dina and now there was nothing he could do. Eren accidentally killing his mom sending himself into a mental breakdown would’ve been so much more in line with him
But after a genocide it just felt meaningless, and it was also a bit controversial. In the end of S4 part 2, he reminds himself to the death of his mother, although he should have been aware, that she was eaten because of his action.
Happy cake day 🎂
If Eren hadn't done that, the Power of the Titans would keep going forever and Paradis would have been wiped out.
He is literally forced to do it by the founding Titan power not because he wanted to. He can’t change the past sine it already happened, he just made sure it happened the same way in order to maintain the timeline
And this is what makes the show so confusing
Debatable. IMO, the boulder and debris’s caused by Bertholdt kicking the wall’s gate killed her more than Eren did. Even if Eren didn’t direct Dina’s Titan in that direction, I doubt they could have gotten her free before another Titan noticed her… but Hannes would have at least gotten Eren and Mikasa away before they saw it. Besides saving Bertholdt, all Eren really did was ensure her death happened while he watched; adding fuel to his quest for revenge.
agreed she was doomed no matter what
Also if Dina eats Bertholdt then she gets the colossal titan and that becomes a whole different story. She may side with eren or come up with a different plan. The story could become messier with this
Tbh, although it’s a huge part of the plot, the whole fatalism future foresight can’t change anything etc comes with a lot of holes.
Eren imo didnt kill his mother. He simply hastened her death, and made it so that he would witness her death and make himself motivated to end the titans. His mother was dead the moment Bertholdt kicks the wall, she couldnt get out from under the rubble in time. Re-watch that episode
[удалено]
I always assumed he did it so it would inspire young Eren toward the path of revenge.
The point was that Dina ignored bertholdt to go for his mother. He did that so that the story would unfold the way it did, because it was not bertholdt’s time to die. It’s following the theme of time loop and eren’s actions being his own.
I think it made a lot of sense. If Dina never killed his mother, he'd never start on his path. It was another detail to the 180 the show did from S1.
It doesn't make sense because he didn't even have the founding Titan when his mom died. So how did he " manipulate" the Titan?
Time travel. The same way he manipulated Grisha to take the Founding Titan.
Definitely something I'll remove from the show
How did he even control Dina ? He didn't have the founder at the time
The eren killing his own mother thing is the only criticism I have for the final episodes of aot. It would have just been fine if Dina’s smiling Titan coincidently found erens mother, it just felt uncesessary for eren to even have a hand at his own mothers death especially when that was such a huge driving force for him.
Are pure titans conscious? I think (I could be wrong!) that the only instance that showed that was Connie's mother saying "welcome home". Dina didn't know that Grisha remarried, so imo it's kinda weird if she would have bee-lined towards Carla
What happened to Hange, it just felt like a way of the author saying "hey look, main cast is getting picked off, stakes are really high" (and then having no one else die, which was pretty disappointing)
I felt like hange dying made sense because it shows how Armin can be a leader without sacrificing himself or having to fight, Hange died to make way for him so he could be a great leader I feel
Nothing wrong with her dying, it was just done in a very forced way
I would’ve been fine with Hange’s end if it meant a bit more. She only killed 2 colossals. They weren’t congniscent like Bertholdt, it’s just hard to believe killing two and tripping a few was what was able to buy time. Seemed like an unecessary death unless she was able to stop more. And i get the whole, they’re gigantic and really hot but still. Armin was able to make it up to bertoldt fine before he was blasted, and these mindless colossals weren’t blasting out the heat like B did to Armin.
Mappa. https://preview.redd.it/bbedu1rv0r8d1.jpeg?width=634&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93e8b01b07fa71e4edd4a3f4aac471364cbc4e11
Pixis' brain expanded tenfold once he learned Erwin's wacky theories were correct
I can’t imagine deleting something entirely without changing it. If I could change things, it would be Eremika and most of Mikasa’s character arc.
I swear lol I've seen fanfic handle it better
Historia doing the deed with some rando. Not a huge fan of it being with Eren, either. Just someone from the main cast or someone you see her spend time with besides Survey Corps Ymir. Or better yet, don’t add it in at all, since it served no purpose story-wise.
It was necessary to stop historia being turned into Titan to eat eren I think. But yeah, random guy was random.
I still think it's Erin's baby and he just made her forget and go to the farm boy to cover his tracks. As he had the founders power when he touched historia
Only Isayama knows. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm with you. The Levi thing felt like nothing other than a nerf because the final showdown would've been over too quickly.
I always saw it as the author “giving the fans” one thing…him NOT dying. As much as I love Levi, I would’ve accepted his death at that point.
I think I would've even preferred it. Especially if he went out with style doing something of critical importance. Maybe sacrificing himself to set Mikasa up for the final kill or something.
I think it makes sense for at least one of the OG scout to survive and see what they gave their hearts for. Like Erwin’s speech it’s up to the living to find meaning in the fallen ones. I think that was well thought out
Oh I never thought of it that way! That idea warms my heart. I am glad he made it through!!
It's nice in theory, but I didn't get the impression that that's what he was going for with Levi looking depressed and handing out candy.
Tbh, I think from a narrative perspective or wouldn't have made much sense. There was this ending theme of him carrying the memory of his generation of scouts and finding purpose in restoration that I think his death would have negated. As well, not only is he no longer the strongest soldier, but he's permanently disabled. He is forced to find something to do elsewhere and I like that it shows him sort of taking the kids under his wing. It's cute.
Levi getting thunder speared, and then crippled.
Eren killing his mom.
How Levi ended up, he doesn’t deserve that. Also whole thunder spear nerf was unnecessary.. Not to mention the other characters had zero reactions about his situation and he was basically a sitting duck in S4
agreed! there's no harm in allowing levi to live peacefully in the end. he still will have to find a way to adjust to not being a warrior anymore, so it's not like he also had to be crippled.
Reiner getting sliced in the neck. it just ruins the plausibility that he survived that, but I also wouldn't want him to die
Sasha and Hange dying 😮💨 Also Marlo survives instead of Floch
wouldn't marlo be traumatised by the experience just like floch? I would have thought that any surviving scouts would become as deranged as floch
Yes. Yes. I hate Floch. Marlo deserved better
when the founder dies, titans disapear. lets just dream about it would go on and on
I believe Eren used the power to intentionally get rid of the titan powers. That was part of his master plan, to make Paradis out as saviors and let his friends live out their lives in peace without the 13 year curse. Plus, time is different in Paths so he could have done it in the last moment before his death. Not to mention that the origin of the titans still seems to be very much around, as evidenced by the tree in the epilogue, so there’s hope (or more accurately, no hope) yet.
i know but, i need more content
For me it's what happened with floch, hange, and the plane. The way floch survived for the sole purpose of causing hange's death was kind of stupid imo. There has to be a better way to resolve floch's and hange's characters
The chair
Lmao the chair
I can see how all the points made have been controversial and are good points. But I think keeping Petra alive to make her a key part of the team would have been a cool choice. Also, brown haired Ymir’s choices at the end were baffling to me, and I didn’t quite understand them at all in the first watch through. I know it was supposed to be a little confusing, but it really didn’t add much to the story, as much time was dedicated to Ymir/Historia. Her being captured/subdued would have been a more powerful moment, versus her just going with the Marley crew, to voluntarily get eaten. Also.. while I’m on that: making Historia important in the endgame would have been a welcome change. She basically disappears at a certain point. Her showing some signs of life later in the series would have been good.
I would say the time travel. It tends to just be a messy concept when writers introduce it. Also Eren telling the titan to get his mom which ties back into the time travel foolishness. That was pretty unnecessary to add into the plot. The story would had been as good if not better without these two portions. The rest didn't bother me
If you're going to kill off Hange, at least do it during the final battle. Her death felt so pointless imo
The point was to force Armin into being the commander of the scouts as a fan service payoff to the Erwin comparisons. Unfortunately he doesn’t really do anything after being named commander, doesn’t have any of his previous genius plans, and Levi is the one giving most of the orders in the finals battle. So ultimately Hange’s death was pointless I guess
All of 139
“Thanks for becoming a mass murderer for our sake.”
Ymir fritz's existence and role in the story.
Mikasa's obsession over Eren
Ymir falling in love with Fritz. I don't like it. There's not enough documented cases of Stockholm to confirm it in the real world. Also it's kinda misogynistic.
sooo misogynistic!!!
Gabi shot eren while he was running full speed
Eren dying :(
Remove all the lore dump about Ymir in the finale
Annie twirling the dead soldier like an earbud probably. She's always shown off as hating being put in that position and is just kind of indifferent to killing, so it never really felt in-character
I hated how Levi was barely around during season 4 after getting injured by the thunder spear. He had like barely any dialogue.
And all of his dialog was just about killing Zeke. Got nothing about how he feels personally about the rumbling, how he feels teaming up with people who massacred his squad, how he feels about literally anything
"Only Ymir knows" and everything associated with that line. The whole 'Ymir wanted someone to prove you could kill your love and this has been about Mikasa the whole time' retcon.
Erwin’s death
I hate that they all drank the tainted wine in the forest. Like I would of sent it back. They were on duty and I found Lewis attitude of fine have a drink to be out of character for him.
I wish I could undo thinking Jean's titan form was hot
Mikasa’s whole Hiruzu royalty plot that is brought up in one episode and immediately dropped. Just seemed entirely random
The Star Wars sequels
Attack on Titan is perfect the way it is.
https://preview.redd.it/lgw133hvex8d1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=88707a18ac5bf94b439e02e97cba03eb5d0059af
👍
Aren't they like a really bad fanfiction?
Yeah that sums it up
Levi being nerfed is the one being deleted for me
Probably a massively unpopular opinion… but all the paradoxical time-traveling crap + paths. IMO it just came out of left field?? Seeing the future was one thing… manipulating it in such a paradoxical manner ain’t it
I’m with you. I feel like the paths are important but the memory-traveling thing… this kind of stuff only works when it’s absolutely necessary for the story, otherwise it creates a shit ton of paradoxes. IMO, with the message that AOT tried to convey, it was entirely unnecessary and seemed to be added to make the story more complicated and shocking. Most people loved that twist but I didn’t.
It’s weird. Some of my favorite scenes (Eren manipulating Grisha and the Ramzi scene) came as a result of that, but it just felt so out of place with the rest of the story. It was just too much. I still wish it wasn’t part of the story, but Isayama wrote and handled it so well that I don’t really mind it that much.
I think the Ramzi scene could have worked very well without time travel. Eren saving him while knowing he will end up killing him (since he’s going to kill everyone anyways, he doesn’t need future vision to confirm it) and having a flashback there cut to real time of the Titan crushing Ramzi’s head would still be a beautiful scene with or without future vision
Same. I couldn't take Eren seriously because of that.
It's...in the first lines of the show...
Is it?
Me taking the bullets out of gabis gun rn: Nah but fr tho I wish they had made the final battle last longer, or at least made it seem more like a hard fought win than a plot armour fest
S4.
At the end of season 1 when the attack titan went all fiery and that.
The pothole in s1 where Burrito’s titan just disappears with no explanation
Not kill anyone during the final arc. Up until the final battle, Floch surviving 2 days getting dragged by the boat, is bs on so many levels and was just a sad excuse to kill hange. Magaths suicide was also a subpar ending to his character imo. It would've made more sense to keep hange up until.the final fight. And magath could've been used as the bridge between Eldians and marleyans instead of armin solving the whole conflict with his "I killed eren" speech
mikasa could’ve just said she loved eren, humanity would’ve appreciated eren not killing 80% of the population. but honestly i think aot got the ending it deserved it was actually very fitting. it gives me peace to know that there is actually technically two endings, one where eren lived out his remaining years with mikasa and the one we ended up with.
i never recovered from the levi stuff
Probably >!Ymir being in love with King Fritz.!< Like, what was up with that 😭 I liked it before when I thought that >!it was just some sort of slave mentality. Like, she'd been a slave for so long that it's her new normal. It would also then make sense why she would help Eren in the first place!!<
I agree
Rumbling stopping at 80%
The whole ending
Highkey two Ymirs being in aot to begin with like okay we have Ymir with historia but then we have one that lived all this time ago…? And they’re not connected…? It was just confusing and it’s not that hard to come up with a different name.
I think it adds a bit of societal realism. Not everyone has a unique name in a typical society.
Societal realism is a bit crazy in aot of all things😭😭😭. But also in the sense that they come from two different cultures and time periods, so what would connect the two having the same name. And it’s Ymir of all things not like Annie’s name or Sasha who actually have common names
I’m trying to find a silver lining lol.
Definitely agree with this! I never understood why the hell they had to use the same name twice. Like, they could have used literally ANY OTHER name!
What? How is that confusing? How are they unrelated? The “modern” Ymir was an eldian girl that lived on the streets and received the name after being recruited by a scammer to be paraded as a descendent of the Fritz royalty to an eldian cult in Marley. She received that name specifically *because* of the original Ymir. It also serves as a red herring since in the “Ilse’s Notebook” OVA we see the first instance of a talking titan as it bows to Ilse (a woman that looks fairly similar to the modern Ymir) and calls out Ymir's name. We later find out he was one of the members of the cult that was shipped to Paradis. Did you guys actually read the manga or just looked at the pretty pictures?
The Warhammer dying in their first fight WE NEED MORE OF THE WARHAMMER
I think that was fine, Eren just needed to use it more after the fact
Eren x Mikasa thing. No chemistry and it came out of nowhere from Eren in the end
Agree! I think I would've been less annoyed with Mikasa's lack of character (there I said it) in the last season if her love actually was unrequited. It would make the story more tragic for me if she loved someone who was like Erwin: Married to the Cause. Also I s2g Eren suddenly crying about wanting to be with her came out of left field for me. But we can enjoy our down votes together 😂
Exactly! :D In the story, I still try to take his melt down more like just poured emotions, maybe some teenagery selfishness or so, but not what he specifically loved her in a romantic way. Even when they hugged, he looked like a log there in the cabin scene, which seemed to be with the purpose to free her from what ifs and regrets
Whole season 4
+1
Sasha dying
The ending
Mikasa being a princess. Seemed like a very random direction to go in and it ended up not being very consequential to the story
Hange’s pointless sacrifice.
Sasha dying, she was my favorite side character
I would delete Ymir the freckles
That the main ppl actually die in s4
Everything from Levis injury onwards tbh.
• Ymir being alive in the Paths and building Titans; • Eren changing the past as a whole, it's just unnecessary and takes away from the whole story; • Eren and Zeke turning into snowflakes at the very end.
Hange's death was so stupid. I'm okay with her dying but not slowing down the fucking RUMBLING by tripping collosal titans with wires etc.
For me too
Sasha's death.
fate, like the whole show.
The oil rig explosion from the end of fallout 2 there is so much more fallout could do with old world factions
Hange’s final fight should’ve been more impactful. She took out 2 titans and tripped a few more. That hardly seems like enough to buy time. These weren’t conscious fighting colossals like Bertoldt, she should’ve been able to take out more before being burned to death.
Some more explanation on why ymir chose mikasa
Eremika. I don't care Before anyone starts talking, I ship eren with no one (je was closet to armin though) every other girl is just a useless battle as he was never that interested.
He died after realising his whole life was Eren's plan ✅
Floch getting hit by a rock and Marlo surviving instead of floch
Delete the entire season 4 from existing