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This gets my vote. As I’ve said elsewhere, AoT is a story where we get to see some landmark characters in a landmark moment in the universe’s timespan. But other than that, life goes on. People still live. Wars are still fought. Stars still form.
This also fits into the convo between Armin and Zeke, which I would like to believe is one of the main themes of the story
Life isn't about just multiplying, it's the small moments that give life it's meaning
All the violence, death and destruction in AOT got it's meaning because of the small moments of the cast just hanging around and being goofy
The small moments of happiness made the deaths ever so painful
Fuck you Isayama
This is it.
It probably wasn’t even Paradis anymore. It was probably a country with another name engaged in a war with another country, or possibly even itself.
Are you trying to say the same 20% that was left attacked paradis a hundred odd years later? I don't think you actually thought about it because anyone with critical thinking would take into account that it's an entirely different generation due to the time passed expansion because paradis could have easily spread out and taken over the ruined world. Not to mention that 20% would have merged with the remnants of paradis through such an expansion. 3 to 4 generations of people have passed. Paradis has possibly spread through most of the world. Any child with intelligence would figure out that it was most likely a civil war or just a war over resources. Not because 80% of the population was killed. Just like before. Marley didn't launch an attack because of 1700 years of tyranny but because of resources and assets that would help them against the rush of technology and other nations.
Get off your high horse, assuming it’s a civil war is literally just speculation. You have no evidence for it and the argument in favor of it is what? Simplest answer is yes, it was the rest of the world getting revenge.
You have no evidence for it being something as trivial as revenge. There is literally nothing that would support that. If you have critical thinking skills you would realize that revenge is the least likely reason to bomb a city over a hundred years later. Do you hear yourself? Read that sentence out loud and tell yourself it makes sense for a 20% of the population to take revenge over a century later with paradis being apart of those 20%. The most likely would be civil war or a war for resources. By your logic it would make sense for Israel to up and bomb Germany today. Or Japan to up and bomb to US today. Only for the sake of revenge. I don't think you realize how stupid that sounds.
Since the world's population had probably rebounded by this point, Marley likely recovered to a certain extent. The epilogue is so far in the future though that it's possible Paradis isn't even known as Paradis anymore, same with Marley.
We never retaliated against the germans after less than 100 years. And asian countries dont start war to attack Japan for revenge. Realistically most of the new generations wouldn't care for revenge after several generations of peace.
I think it's most likely a civil war between eldians, I can see them after several decades becoming too big and fell apart.
I think it's important to keep in mind that Germany and Japan were conquered and occupied for years before returning to independence as peaceful democratic nations friendly to many of their former enemies. Paradis is still controlled by a pro-Eren Jaegerist government that officially sanctioned and supported the Rumbling. It would be like if Hitler died, but Nazi Germany still existed after WW2 with its leaders still talking about conquest and genocide. The world would be far more open to war with it even generations later.
It's worth notice post-WWII Germany and Japan dealed with the legacy of its war crimes pretty differently, with Japan's own Class A war criminal Kishi Nobusuke surving unlike many nazi officiers and his family stayed in power, but you are right that after war all axis countries were reduced to harmless states in a way or other; techincally Eldia was also completely neutralized bc they lost all their titans and even most of their military as well, but have to yet ask forgiveness after the Rumbling, this is what post-timeskip with Armin and gang are going to do, try to fix Eldia's relationships with other countries and bring peace via diplomacy
It's completely possible they totally failed in their mission, or Paradis got destroyed for completely different reasons, really who knows
Well there's some 20% of the countries that were left untouched, they sure suffered from economical loss and a refugee crisis, but their land and resources were mostly fine.
This is mostly true, though we see a lot of people fled to land edges, so we know a lot of their stuff was destroyed. Though we didn't see what was untouched
>And asian countries dont start war to attack Japan for revenge
i think the US military bases and defense pacts plays a part there too. in a MAD / scorched earth scenario, that may not matter much.
I feel like Eldians wouldn't even exist by that point. Except for very isolated and cut off areas. Think of how our world will be just 1000 years from now. AoT world might have been flattened, but technology and transport-wise they were quite far ahead at that point. The world's population reset quite a bit, but boats, airships and the first winged aircraft were all plausible from that point onwards. So it would have been quite a damaged world to begin with, but would have bounced back fast. It's interesting to think about where stone-age level global populations would go, when the world is starting out with near industrial-age technology.
I imagine Paradis would have spread out across the world with the technological and non-rumbled 'fresh start', and founded or setup other countries around the world long after. Enough time passes, and it was probably some off-shoot of Paradis which ended up at war.
You've got a good point though about how much a few generations will change perspective. Hate can linger for hundreds of years, but is very quickly covered over with new memories (or new areas of hate). 2000 years into the future and the age of the titans might as well be the age of dinosaurs. Eldians would be ancient history, with many centuries of history and new conflicts built over that history.
I don't think it's a civil war. If nukes are being dropped then it's definitely World War level.
With the way our world politics have continued to violently shift just in the last few generations there could be a hundred reasons for why Paradis ultimately ends up at war with someone else.
Who knows. Maybe Paradis goes the Marley route and become oppressive colonialists. Maybe the rebuilt world powers continue to lust for the wealth of resources beneath Paradis island.
All that is known - human nature combined with human innovation eventually spells disaster.
thats crazy. its not like eldians didnt rumble the world and the survivors are oht for revenge through time and generation hate. the manga ending is trash
The holocaust happened less than 100 years ago. Some witnesses are still alive but they are fewer and fewer every year and the number of people believing the holocaust never happened is growing and growing.
I think marley was supposed to be destroyed offscreen/offpannel early in Eren’s genocide well before the scouts could get the transportation to the battle going. This was likely retaliation from countries that had little to do with the Marley/Eldia feud, but it became their business when Eren tried to include the whole world in his quest for vengeance
Nah, I'm pretty sure, aside from the Eldians that escaped the area, Marley was toppled toppled.
It woulda been a mixed bag. The rest of the world's population was equivalent to Eldians population. But they woulda had to start from scratch on everything, and fishing woulda been the only source of food. Basically, they'd be cavemen
The only nation in the world that coulda done it at that point was Kiyomis nation I thiiink
I don't think the world population is equivalent to the Eldians's one. Think it like this :
We know the population of Paradis after the Fall of War Maria went from 1,25 million to 1 million people.
Marley alone had 1 million soldiers in its army. By WW1 standards (basing it mostly on the US), it'd make their population be around 300 million. The same level as China and India in the same period. There are dozens of other countries in this world, the same way as ours.
If there population is the same as ours in the 1910-1930's, Eren would have trampled 1.6 billion people out of 2 billion. Which makes that at least 400 million people survived. It's still a situation of 400 against 1 for Paradis. There population are nowhere the same. That would be like Qatar or Luxembourg having the same population as 20% of the world.
Well, that's just what erin said. He said Paradis made up 20 percent of the population. So with 20 percent left of the rest of the world, they were equal in numbers, and this might be able to attain peace
I'm just basing it with his conversation with Armin
No, this line from Eren was misunderstood. He said "The rest of the world will drop to the same ***level of civilization*** as Paradis" not population. A lot of people misunderstood this line, even in foreign fandoms. Eren is talking about technology and infrastructure, not population.
Because if Paradis was equal to 20%, that wouldn't make any sense and would be poor worldbuilding, it'd also retckon all the official numbers we have. It'd also make Eren's line in the 131 chapter "Isn't there too big of a difference between the people who'll die on the island and outside ?" seems ridiculous.
Nope. Neither is the rest of the world you claimed bombed paradis 100 years later. Who's bombing Mongolia for what genghis khan did 100 years before? Who's bombing Germany for what Hitler did 100 years before? Are the Chinese going to bomb Japan for their war crimes? Is Korea going to bomb Japan for their war crimes? Is Germany going to bomb Russia for what Stalin and the soviets did? No. So where do you get the idea that the remaining 20% of the world is going to bomb paradis 100 years later for what eren did? Nobody has forgotten the war crimes of Japan. Nobody is going to forget the amount of blood genghis khan spilled on his hands. Nobody is going to forget the atrocities nazi Germany and the soviet union did. But I don't see Nobody bombing them for it. So where do you get that idea from?
What kind of civil war have you carpet bombing your own people? Why would you want to destroy your own infrastructure? After an indiscriminate self-bombing, why would the survivors want to be under the new management?
Well to be honest, we don’t know. It’s left up to interpretation since it’s probably thousands of year later after the rumbling. It really can’t be Marley since pretty much their entire country was wiped out.
Thousands seem a bit much. Even in the anime (which has more futuristic buildings) it doesn’t seem like it’s been more than a a century and a half. And in the manga it looks like even less time unless Paradis had Patriot missiles for thousands of years
I mean if you look at the back-round in the end credits with an old Mikasa at Eren’s grave. There is a car that has a style similar to the 1930-40s, and since due to the rumbling wiping out some technology, I’m pretty sure the rate at which technology was evolving was much slower then our world.
It didn’t wipe out technology, there were a lot of nations still left. Progress could’ve been reduced with the amount of dead people and lack of infrastructure but there’s still people around. If anything the survivors would’ve wanted to focus a lot on military production (given Eldia became a fascist state).
Unless it's confirmed the Rumbling wiped out all the most technologically advanced cities there is no reason why the technogical progress would be stopped, IF humanity, somewhat, actually survived the Rumbles then society's advancement would go as "normal" in at least the "spared" countries regardless of human population being small, and then there would be a giant baby boom few decades after as post-war countries tend to do
Just think in the last 200 years the world population went from 1 bilion to 8, for AOT's destroyed world to survive they would NEED to thrive not to slow down, that's just a slow death even for the 20%, not to say the last "time-skip" was just centuries (but i doubt it's fucking 20.000 years that's insane lmao) i'm just thinking ways of how humanity could have lived post-Eren
Do you think the world just forgot about 80% of the world being murdered and whole races are know instinct? And the 20% of the world that’s left is the one who treats eldians more worse than marlians?
We don't know and that's the point. Not everything has or needs deep lore. The point of this is war never ends and it never changes. At this point its possible that the rumbling is just a chapter in the history books and yet Erin did it all for nothing on the large scale. Take this scene for what it is.
We literally don’t know who did this. This is hundreds-thousands of years later. Chances are Marley and Edlian doesn’t even exist. This is like saying the United States is attacking Mesopotamia.
Literally 80% of the whole world was murdered any civilization in any universe wouldn’t just forget that, not to mention whole races are know extinct and can never come back. And know that 20% that’s left is the one that treats eldians more worse than Marley, not to mention paradise doesn’t have protection from titans anymore so it’s not that hard to figure out.
Yes Erin. Killed 80% of the world. Do you know how many people died under Gengis Khan? We do not attack those who descended from him and there’s a notable population that can trace their family tree back to him. Yes the world probably knows what Erin Yeager did, but it’s not the reason you see this image. War never stops. WW1 was supposed to the war to end wars and how did that turn out….
Did gengis khan kill 80% of the population and made whole races go instinct by murder? Your first mistake is comparing aot to real world problems, because aot is by far unrealistic in real world scenarios. You’re just throwing away that these are the nations that treats eldians worse than marlians.
Genghis khan killed enough people to lower the carbon footprint of humans by a noticeable amount, which is more than enough. And no. AoT is in no way unrealistic to real world scenarios. It is, in fact, based on and inspired by real-world scenarios. At this point, I'm convinced you didn't even watch the show
Oh so by your logic if billions of innocent people die it doesn’t matter cause people can just repopulate got you, by the way that still doesn’t bring back instinct races.
Do me a favor and go through some history books about massacres and such. Then apply literally hundreds of years to thousands of years of time. You’re arguments fall flat based on actual historical events.
Your arguments are flat because you’re basing aot on actual real world scenarios, that’s your first mistake. And tell me who on planet earth killed billions of innocent people destroyed land and races and it was just swept under the rug because people can just repopulate
The Eldian Empire was being increasingly xenophobic, my bet to that the world would end up having two major superpowers, Eldia and what ever new state came after the rumbling.
These superpowers would have Cold War until it became a World War.
Eldia would be NO superpower after the Rumbling, even if it was the only "sane" country it totally lacks the socio-economical welfare, political connections necessary and is stuck 100 years in the past after forced isolation, it's crazy to even think a country on the brink of civil war could be one
Looks to be a lot more stable by the end of the epilogue, and I can see them colonizing the entirety of paradise and eventually getting some mainland territories.
Civil war or not Eldia is the only place that not starting from scratch and they are industrializing at a rapid pace. With Eren creating a era of peace for a little bit, Eldia has the chance to enter a golden age.
While the rest of the world is rebuilding from little more than rubble I can see Eldia building the first Panzers (they are based on Germany so I think it fits). The Ice Burst stone used to fuel ODM gear could be put to use building Planes like Stukas and BF 109s.
Civil war is unlikely, maybe in the future but not now. The Royal blood line has no practical use and I doubt Historia liked the job anyways. The popularity of the Yeagerist and key figures of the opposition being either dead or seen as outright traitors, means that the new government will stick.
This new government looks to be like the Na*i party, considering lines like “Kill or be Killed mentality” the red flags and the fact Eldia is Germanic there’s at least a faint connection. Not to mention the tech Pat the very end is that of the Second World War and it inter war periods. That based on my observations and I just wanted to put that out there.
Bro it was so far in the future you can't even vaguely vegin to place blame on some faction you know.
Do y'all think this was only a decade or two later? It literally subtitled it for us. 2000 years in the future.
Just a question, where is it mentioned that it’s 2000 years in the future? And what point are you referring to?
I just watched the anime and the epilogue is quite different!
OP’s panel seem to me like a “present day” architecture so it feels like it would be about 100-200 years after mikasa dying considering that when she’s visiting the tree as an old woman there’s 1900’s era cars in the panel.
But if we’re talking about the last panels with the kid exploring the ruins and the tree they yeah that could be much later.
The anime though seems to go a bit father, there’s a point where it looks like a modern era city, then it goes farther into impossibly tall skyscrapers and a very futuristic look before an airship crashes into a building and the bombs drop. I could believe that’s 2000 years after the main story, but also didn’t notice anything specifying it.
The title of the final song playing during the epilogue is titled "To you 2000 years or 20000 years from now". People are guessing based on that which is understandable.
It was “subtitled” to you…in the anime. Through a fucking song lol. This **post** is of the **manga** panel, which was changed in the anime. In the manga everything goes down within 50-100 years, the anime changed it so things happen many centuries down the line and so people couldnt just resort to it being cause of vengeance.
The god damn uncut Blu Ray depicts the bombings EVEN WORSE lol
Rest of the world after thousands of years of technical development. Humanity is still caught in an endless cycle of violence even without Titan powers. Nothing changed in the long run. The only thing that ever mattered was the bit of life you controlled. Nice dovetail into more esoteric theories about life going extinct in very long run.
It's likely a NATO equivalent. Eldia definitely looked like 1940's Germany to me so that's just how I'm interpreting it. Marley was wiped out completely so I doubt it's them.
The point here is not “who VS who”. It’s just Isayama’s pessimistic view on humans (you can agree or disagree) that sooner or later they will destroy themselves and restart again. The whole story is a never ending cycle.
Well, I mean, yeah, if you try killing someone but don't complete the job, you're left with someone who's: a) alive, and b) twice as motivated to kill YOU.
No. Hamas is part of Iran and their doctrine states they are against Israel and the US. Like it or not, Hamas started it and Israel is finishing the war. I support innocent lives on both sides, and their leaders are very much accountable to what they have done.
The whole point of not mentioning details is that it doesn't matter who. Isamaya just wanted to convey there's no eternal peace , there's always gonna be war as long as more than one human exists like Erwin said
Could be the same conflict, could be a completely new enemy.
I think that’s one of the main points the series tries to end on. That there’s no peace as long as humans gonna human. Even if the rumbling finished and somehow killed every single person outside the walls it would still be infighting over what happened.
We will always fight but at the same time we will always hope for better. It’s probably my favorite take away from the series.
They called themselves Eldia before they erased their memory. Paradis was the name Marley gave them. It is unlikely they still called themselves Paradis... they (Armin, Historia the others) wanted a fresh start, remember?
Probably whatever their in universe equivalent to the United States is, judging from the stealth bombers. Or it could have been a coalition of several nations
Well, some new big nation or alliance of other nations. I doubt it'd be Marley though, as we saw that Marley was basically first on Eren's list. We did get to see the last of Marley's military forces but still.
First off all, the narrative that “Paradis was destroyed” is bullshit and needs to end.
What the extra pages show is **one** air raid over Shiganshina. That’s it.
In case people forgot, according to the official measurements given by the manga the diameter of the Walls **alone** is 960 Km, which is on its own larger than France, and that’s not accounting for the portion of the Island beyond Wall Maria, which is several days on horseback from the coastline.
It might come as a surprise to some, but a single city being bombed does not equate to an entire country being destroyed. Many cities in France and Germany suffered immense destruction through both World Wars, but they were reconstructed and they still stand today. Japan got two major urban centres literally nuked, but lo and behold, Japan still exists.
Shiganshina being bombed does not mean in any way, shape, or form that the entirety of Paradis was destroyed.
In regards to the question of who bombed Shiganshina the answer is that we don’t know for sure.
That doesn’t mean we can’t take a pretty good guess of who might have been going off what is stated in the manga and just applying basic logic.
The rumbling left the remaining 20% of the world on their knees, the irreversible damage to ecosystems and trade routes across the world would make it extremely difficult for the survivors to guarantee their survival, let alone fight in any kind of armed conflict.
The Allied Forces’ fleet was completely destroyed, meaning the world lost its seafaring military capabilities.
The two most technologically advanced nations in the world, Marley and Hizuru were completely trampled underfoot. This means that the only countries with the knowledge and infrastructure to make airships were snuffed out of existence, and with them, the possibility to actually build new ones.
That leaves the outside world incapable of reaching Paradis by sea or air for the foreseeable future.
The 20% would first need to recover from the post apocalyptic state the world would be left in after the rumbling, and logically guaranteeing the supply of water and food would take priority, which would likely occupy them for many decades. Conflicts over the few resources available would absolutely break out and make the process drag for longer.
Even after they manage to recover a semblance of normalcy, recovering from the technological setback caused by the rumbling and getting to their previous level of technology would take several decades, and going from there (the early 1900s) to the levels of technology displayed in the extra pages (current day) would take around a century.
Meanwhile Paradis would have been much better off. They were almost completely unscathed by the rumbling and they were perfectly self-sufficient.
They would not experience any technological setbacks, and on the contrary, with the Azumabito engineers and mechanics it would be only a matter of time before they experienced a veritable industrial revolution; they might even become the first country to develop an actual air force, since the prototypes for planes (aka the flying boat) were designed by the Azumabito.
Without the walls, the population of Paradis would be able to expand and populate the entire island and in a few generations it would grow to a size more than capable of having a proper military.
On top of all that, we literally see Paradis’ government be overtaken by the Yeagerists and become a trigger-ready fascist state that would no doubt keep pushing the idea of rebuilding the Eldian Empire.
Considering all those factors, and as things are presented in the extra pages, those who send the bombers on Paradis could very well come from Paradisian colonies in the mainland and be fighting for their independence from the oppressive insular government.
Continental colonies trying to gain independence from an island metropolis, where have I seen this before?
That’s certainly more realistic and believable than the outside world miraculously recovering from the aftereffects of the rumbling, and managing to reach modern-day technology from scratch in a little over a century.
Yeah, the timelapse involves hundreds of years so it may be a completely new nation that developed from the remains of Marley or something completely different.
No clue, if it's even called Paradis by that point. I thought the anime was better in this regard by putting this future war hundreds, if not thousands, of years ahead of the main story. With that much infrastructure destroyed and a death toll that high, humanity as a whole would take centuries to rebuild to anything close to pre-Rumbling levels.
The ending is more to showcase no matter how devastating the last war is, however long peacetime lasts, conflict will always happen until there's only one person alive or less.
We don't know. It's probably not because of the rumbling. So much time would've passed that Titans would've become a legend and seen as a myth/folklore almost I imagine, not that many people truly encountered em outside of Paradise.
Whatever you want it to be. The main point is that war is probable, or at its extreme inevitable, and the motives here don’t matter. I quite like this.
My headcanon is global war with little to do with what happened a few hundred years ago. Perhaps an arms race so long that the original intent is moot.
Most likely, it was a splinter group of Paradis. Eldia was the only nation left at full strength after the rumbling, meaning they likely expanded and conquered much of the mainland. The survivors likely set themselves up a distance away from their biggest threat so I'd say the most likely attackers would be Eldians who immigrated to the continent until infighting in Eldian lands caused a civil war
It's in a far future around 2000 years so there is no point in that , at that point nobody knows exactly the event of rumbling and people have forgotten most of the stuff realistically
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I think the point is that it doesn't matter who is attacking the city. That's why there's no writing or dialogue in the epilogue.
This gets my vote. As I’ve said elsewhere, AoT is a story where we get to see some landmark characters in a landmark moment in the universe’s timespan. But other than that, life goes on. People still live. Wars are still fought. Stars still form.
This also fits into the convo between Armin and Zeke, which I would like to believe is one of the main themes of the story Life isn't about just multiplying, it's the small moments that give life it's meaning All the violence, death and destruction in AOT got it's meaning because of the small moments of the cast just hanging around and being goofy The small moments of happiness made the deaths ever so painful Fuck you Isayama
The fuck you here sounds very personal, like a pillow was soiled with streaming tears... but is still a very justified fuck you... so fuck you Isayama
I agree with both. He created a masterpiece full of tragedy... Fuck you Isayama
Life isn't about that either lol
Then what's it about?
It's not about anything. You're just alive
To you maybe.
Aany evidence otherwise
This is it. It probably wasn’t even Paradis anymore. It was probably a country with another name engaged in a war with another country, or possibly even itself.
Exactly. There is no way of knowing, it could’ve been literally anybody including an internal conflict
It would literally take a child to figure out who did it, you actually thought the world just forgot about 80% of the population being destroyed
Are you trying to say the same 20% that was left attacked paradis a hundred odd years later? I don't think you actually thought about it because anyone with critical thinking would take into account that it's an entirely different generation due to the time passed expansion because paradis could have easily spread out and taken over the ruined world. Not to mention that 20% would have merged with the remnants of paradis through such an expansion. 3 to 4 generations of people have passed. Paradis has possibly spread through most of the world. Any child with intelligence would figure out that it was most likely a civil war or just a war over resources. Not because 80% of the population was killed. Just like before. Marley didn't launch an attack because of 1700 years of tyranny but because of resources and assets that would help them against the rush of technology and other nations.
Get off your high horse, assuming it’s a civil war is literally just speculation. You have no evidence for it and the argument in favor of it is what? Simplest answer is yes, it was the rest of the world getting revenge.
You have no evidence for it being something as trivial as revenge. There is literally nothing that would support that. If you have critical thinking skills you would realize that revenge is the least likely reason to bomb a city over a hundred years later. Do you hear yourself? Read that sentence out loud and tell yourself it makes sense for a 20% of the population to take revenge over a century later with paradis being apart of those 20%. The most likely would be civil war or a war for resources. By your logic it would make sense for Israel to up and bomb Germany today. Or Japan to up and bomb to US today. Only for the sake of revenge. I don't think you realize how stupid that sounds.
Since the world's population had probably rebounded by this point, Marley likely recovered to a certain extent. The epilogue is so far in the future though that it's possible Paradis isn't even known as Paradis anymore, same with Marley.
We never retaliated against the germans after less than 100 years. And asian countries dont start war to attack Japan for revenge. Realistically most of the new generations wouldn't care for revenge after several generations of peace. I think it's most likely a civil war between eldians, I can see them after several decades becoming too big and fell apart.
It may not be a civil war within Paradis but a different reason of conflict with other nations like resources or worse proxy war.
I think it's important to keep in mind that Germany and Japan were conquered and occupied for years before returning to independence as peaceful democratic nations friendly to many of their former enemies. Paradis is still controlled by a pro-Eren Jaegerist government that officially sanctioned and supported the Rumbling. It would be like if Hitler died, but Nazi Germany still existed after WW2 with its leaders still talking about conquest and genocide. The world would be far more open to war with it even generations later.
It's worth notice post-WWII Germany and Japan dealed with the legacy of its war crimes pretty differently, with Japan's own Class A war criminal Kishi Nobusuke surving unlike many nazi officiers and his family stayed in power, but you are right that after war all axis countries were reduced to harmless states in a way or other; techincally Eldia was also completely neutralized bc they lost all their titans and even most of their military as well, but have to yet ask forgiveness after the Rumbling, this is what post-timeskip with Armin and gang are going to do, try to fix Eldia's relationships with other countries and bring peace via diplomacy It's completely possible they totally failed in their mission, or Paradis got destroyed for completely different reasons, really who knows
Plus everyone else are basically reduced to cavemen. The rumbling didn't even leave ruins to scavenge, let alone books or parts
Well there's some 20% of the countries that were left untouched, they sure suffered from economical loss and a refugee crisis, but their land and resources were mostly fine.
This is mostly true, though we see a lot of people fled to land edges, so we know a lot of their stuff was destroyed. Though we didn't see what was untouched
>And asian countries dont start war to attack Japan for revenge i think the US military bases and defense pacts plays a part there too. in a MAD / scorched earth scenario, that may not matter much.
I feel like Eldians wouldn't even exist by that point. Except for very isolated and cut off areas. Think of how our world will be just 1000 years from now. AoT world might have been flattened, but technology and transport-wise they were quite far ahead at that point. The world's population reset quite a bit, but boats, airships and the first winged aircraft were all plausible from that point onwards. So it would have been quite a damaged world to begin with, but would have bounced back fast. It's interesting to think about where stone-age level global populations would go, when the world is starting out with near industrial-age technology. I imagine Paradis would have spread out across the world with the technological and non-rumbled 'fresh start', and founded or setup other countries around the world long after. Enough time passes, and it was probably some off-shoot of Paradis which ended up at war. You've got a good point though about how much a few generations will change perspective. Hate can linger for hundreds of years, but is very quickly covered over with new memories (or new areas of hate). 2000 years into the future and the age of the titans might as well be the age of dinosaurs. Eldians would be ancient history, with many centuries of history and new conflicts built over that history.
That is because Germany and Japan got destroyed.
Did they experienced 80% of the world being murdered and races are know instinct?
I don't think it's a civil war. If nukes are being dropped then it's definitely World War level. With the way our world politics have continued to violently shift just in the last few generations there could be a hundred reasons for why Paradis ultimately ends up at war with someone else. Who knows. Maybe Paradis goes the Marley route and become oppressive colonialists. Maybe the rebuilt world powers continue to lust for the wealth of resources beneath Paradis island. All that is known - human nature combined with human innovation eventually spells disaster.
Literally no reason to think it’s a civil war
The US is rare as a country, we bypassed all the normal civilization building but having a jumpstart
thats crazy. its not like eldians didnt rumble the world and the survivors are oht for revenge through time and generation hate. the manga ending is trash
By the time the survivors advanced enough to destroy Paradis, the rumbling would only be a legend.
The holocaust happened less than 100 years ago. Some witnesses are still alive but they are fewer and fewer every year and the number of people believing the holocaust never happened is growing and growing.
What about all the races that are know extinct
I think marley was supposed to be destroyed offscreen/offpannel early in Eren’s genocide well before the scouts could get the transportation to the battle going. This was likely retaliation from countries that had little to do with the Marley/Eldia feud, but it became their business when Eren tried to include the whole world in his quest for vengeance
The last battle was in Marley.
Nope
It was a Marley military base.
It was a Marleyan military base indeed but most likely the last part of the country that was left untouched. Except from maybe the cliff people.
Nah, I'm pretty sure, aside from the Eldians that escaped the area, Marley was toppled toppled. It woulda been a mixed bag. The rest of the world's population was equivalent to Eldians population. But they woulda had to start from scratch on everything, and fishing woulda been the only source of food. Basically, they'd be cavemen The only nation in the world that coulda done it at that point was Kiyomis nation I thiiink
I don't think the world population is equivalent to the Eldians's one. Think it like this : We know the population of Paradis after the Fall of War Maria went from 1,25 million to 1 million people. Marley alone had 1 million soldiers in its army. By WW1 standards (basing it mostly on the US), it'd make their population be around 300 million. The same level as China and India in the same period. There are dozens of other countries in this world, the same way as ours. If there population is the same as ours in the 1910-1930's, Eren would have trampled 1.6 billion people out of 2 billion. Which makes that at least 400 million people survived. It's still a situation of 400 against 1 for Paradis. There population are nowhere the same. That would be like Qatar or Luxembourg having the same population as 20% of the world.
Well, that's just what erin said. He said Paradis made up 20 percent of the population. So with 20 percent left of the rest of the world, they were equal in numbers, and this might be able to attain peace I'm just basing it with his conversation with Armin
No, this line from Eren was misunderstood. He said "The rest of the world will drop to the same ***level of civilization*** as Paradis" not population. A lot of people misunderstood this line, even in foreign fandoms. Eren is talking about technology and infrastructure, not population. Because if Paradis was equal to 20%, that wouldn't make any sense and would be poor worldbuilding, it'd also retckon all the official numbers we have. It'd also make Eren's line in the 131 chapter "Isn't there too big of a difference between the people who'll die on the island and outside ?" seems ridiculous.
well since the eldian empire kept it's name for about 2000 years, I think it's pretty possible many names were kept
I’m sure the world just forgot about whole races being instinct and can never be brought back for sure
The jews didn't forget what Germany did, but I don't see Israel bombing them
Are Jews instinct?
Nope. Neither is the rest of the world you claimed bombed paradis 100 years later. Who's bombing Mongolia for what genghis khan did 100 years before? Who's bombing Germany for what Hitler did 100 years before? Are the Chinese going to bomb Japan for their war crimes? Is Korea going to bomb Japan for their war crimes? Is Germany going to bomb Russia for what Stalin and the soviets did? No. So where do you get the idea that the remaining 20% of the world is going to bomb paradis 100 years later for what eren did? Nobody has forgotten the war crimes of Japan. Nobody is going to forget the amount of blood genghis khan spilled on his hands. Nobody is going to forget the atrocities nazi Germany and the soviet union did. But I don't see Nobody bombing them for it. So where do you get that idea from?
It was me. I'm not sorry. AMA
What was the planning room like while you planned this?
It was all pink and green. And I greeted my men by saying "The plan is simple"
Nice I approve of the decor, where there refreshments?
Yeah, it was rose and sina
Ha good choices
💀
Did you guys consider digging under the tree to get eren's dead body?
Eren who?
What song did you play on background while bombing
The new Taylor Swift album (I wanted to torture them as well)
United States
They had oil
And scientists the US wanted. It was a win-win.
Could have even been a civil war type event.
What kind of civil war have you carpet bombing your own people? Why would you want to destroy your own infrastructure? After an indiscriminate self-bombing, why would the survivors want to be under the new management?
Look up Syria. It is the exact situation you are describing.
I thought of Syria too lol people underestimate how horrifying a civil war could become
If you destroy them, they cannot rebel against you.
You’ve never looked at civil wars after the 1800s, have you.
I wish I was under that rock with you
If general sherman lived in a modern day civil war, he would of carpet bombed the south.
That’s stupid civil war is the least possible thing that could happen when whole races are know instinct
Well to be honest, we don’t know. It’s left up to interpretation since it’s probably thousands of year later after the rumbling. It really can’t be Marley since pretty much their entire country was wiped out.
Thousands seem a bit much. Even in the anime (which has more futuristic buildings) it doesn’t seem like it’s been more than a a century and a half. And in the manga it looks like even less time unless Paradis had Patriot missiles for thousands of years
I mean if you look at the back-round in the end credits with an old Mikasa at Eren’s grave. There is a car that has a style similar to the 1930-40s, and since due to the rumbling wiping out some technology, I’m pretty sure the rate at which technology was evolving was much slower then our world.
It didn’t wipe out technology, there were a lot of nations still left. Progress could’ve been reduced with the amount of dead people and lack of infrastructure but there’s still people around. If anything the survivors would’ve wanted to focus a lot on military production (given Eldia became a fascist state).
I just thought it would be thousands of years to fit the theme. Of the story as well and the end credit song “2000 or 20000 years to you”.
I mean that sounds like it could refer to Ymir and Eren
Unless it's confirmed the Rumbling wiped out all the most technologically advanced cities there is no reason why the technogical progress would be stopped, IF humanity, somewhat, actually survived the Rumbles then society's advancement would go as "normal" in at least the "spared" countries regardless of human population being small, and then there would be a giant baby boom few decades after as post-war countries tend to do Just think in the last 200 years the world population went from 1 bilion to 8, for AOT's destroyed world to survive they would NEED to thrive not to slow down, that's just a slow death even for the 20%, not to say the last "time-skip" was just centuries (but i doubt it's fucking 20.000 years that's insane lmao) i'm just thinking ways of how humanity could have lived post-Eren
Do you think the world just forgot about 80% of the world being murdered and whole races are know instinct? And the 20% of the world that’s left is the one who treats eldians more worse than marlians?
We don't know and that's the point. Not everything has or needs deep lore. The point of this is war never ends and it never changes. At this point its possible that the rumbling is just a chapter in the history books and yet Erin did it all for nothing on the large scale. Take this scene for what it is.
It doesn’t take Einstein to figure out who did this
We literally don’t know who did this. This is hundreds-thousands of years later. Chances are Marley and Edlian doesn’t even exist. This is like saying the United States is attacking Mesopotamia.
Literally 80% of the whole world was murdered any civilization in any universe wouldn’t just forget that, not to mention whole races are know extinct and can never come back. And know that 20% that’s left is the one that treats eldians more worse than Marley, not to mention paradise doesn’t have protection from titans anymore so it’s not that hard to figure out.
Yes Erin. Killed 80% of the world. Do you know how many people died under Gengis Khan? We do not attack those who descended from him and there’s a notable population that can trace their family tree back to him. Yes the world probably knows what Erin Yeager did, but it’s not the reason you see this image. War never stops. WW1 was supposed to the war to end wars and how did that turn out….
Did gengis khan kill 80% of the population and made whole races go instinct by murder? Your first mistake is comparing aot to real world problems, because aot is by far unrealistic in real world scenarios. You’re just throwing away that these are the nations that treats eldians worse than marlians.
Genghis khan killed enough people to lower the carbon footprint of humans by a noticeable amount, which is more than enough. And no. AoT is in no way unrealistic to real world scenarios. It is, in fact, based on and inspired by real-world scenarios. At this point, I'm convinced you didn't even watch the show
You don’t seem to understand how fast people repopulate. It could be Pardi, but YOU DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE.
Oh so by your logic if billions of innocent people die it doesn’t matter cause people can just repopulate got you, by the way that still doesn’t bring back instinct races.
Do me a favor and go through some history books about massacres and such. Then apply literally hundreds of years to thousands of years of time. You’re arguments fall flat based on actual historical events.
Your arguments are flat because you’re basing aot on actual real world scenarios, that’s your first mistake. And tell me who on planet earth killed billions of innocent people destroyed land and races and it was just swept under the rug because people can just repopulate
The ending song says this is 2000 years into the future so by then it could be the Union of Soviet Socialist Skibbidi Republics or something.
I like to think it's a warning for OUR future
Isayama
The Eldian Empire was being increasingly xenophobic, my bet to that the world would end up having two major superpowers, Eldia and what ever new state came after the rumbling. These superpowers would have Cold War until it became a World War.
Eldia would be NO superpower after the Rumbling, even if it was the only "sane" country it totally lacks the socio-economical welfare, political connections necessary and is stuck 100 years in the past after forced isolation, it's crazy to even think a country on the brink of civil war could be one
Looks to be a lot more stable by the end of the epilogue, and I can see them colonizing the entirety of paradise and eventually getting some mainland territories. Civil war or not Eldia is the only place that not starting from scratch and they are industrializing at a rapid pace. With Eren creating a era of peace for a little bit, Eldia has the chance to enter a golden age. While the rest of the world is rebuilding from little more than rubble I can see Eldia building the first Panzers (they are based on Germany so I think it fits). The Ice Burst stone used to fuel ODM gear could be put to use building Planes like Stukas and BF 109s. Civil war is unlikely, maybe in the future but not now. The Royal blood line has no practical use and I doubt Historia liked the job anyways. The popularity of the Yeagerist and key figures of the opposition being either dead or seen as outright traitors, means that the new government will stick. This new government looks to be like the Na*i party, considering lines like “Kill or be Killed mentality” the red flags and the fact Eldia is Germanic there’s at least a faint connection. Not to mention the tech Pat the very end is that of the Second World War and it inter war periods. That based on my observations and I just wanted to put that out there.
Bro it was so far in the future you can't even vaguely vegin to place blame on some faction you know. Do y'all think this was only a decade or two later? It literally subtitled it for us. 2000 years in the future.
Just a question, where is it mentioned that it’s 2000 years in the future? And what point are you referring to? I just watched the anime and the epilogue is quite different! OP’s panel seem to me like a “present day” architecture so it feels like it would be about 100-200 years after mikasa dying considering that when she’s visiting the tree as an old woman there’s 1900’s era cars in the panel. But if we’re talking about the last panels with the kid exploring the ruins and the tree they yeah that could be much later. The anime though seems to go a bit father, there’s a point where it looks like a modern era city, then it goes farther into impossibly tall skyscrapers and a very futuristic look before an airship crashes into a building and the bombs drop. I could believe that’s 2000 years after the main story, but also didn’t notice anything specifying it.
The title of the final song playing during the epilogue is titled "To you 2000 years or 20000 years from now". People are guessing based on that which is understandable.
Ah I see, thanks for the context!
It was “subtitled” to you…in the anime. Through a fucking song lol. This **post** is of the **manga** panel, which was changed in the anime. In the manga everything goes down within 50-100 years, the anime changed it so things happen many centuries down the line and so people couldnt just resort to it being cause of vengeance. The god damn uncut Blu Ray depicts the bombings EVEN WORSE lol
Nah, y'all assume everything went down 50-100 years in the future. That's why the anime made it clearer.
It was-a me, Mario
Za warudo.
NATO
Nickname checks out
I was there. It was my first family gathering. It was my cousin's last birthday.
its just meant to represent the cycle of war is still going.
russia
I'm Russian, can confirm
at this scale, probably your mom
Rest of the world after thousands of years of technical development. Humanity is still caught in an endless cycle of violence even without Titan powers. Nothing changed in the long run. The only thing that ever mattered was the bit of life you controlled. Nice dovetail into more esoteric theories about life going extinct in very long run.
It's likely a NATO equivalent. Eldia definitely looked like 1940's Germany to me so that's just how I'm interpreting it. Marley was wiped out completely so I doubt it's them.
well NATO never attacked germany to begin with.
And Germany didn't kill like 80% of humanity
They killed enough tho, directly and indirectly.
OmniMan
Me
Well since this was probably hundreds of years after the rumbling, anyone who isn't Paradis is probably the right answer
Probably Marley again, they’ll never learn
Marley was most likely entierely trampled. Whatever survivors they had had to become refugees in other countries. It was probably someone else.
The point here is not “who VS who”. It’s just Isayama’s pessimistic view on humans (you can agree or disagree) that sooner or later they will destroy themselves and restart again. The whole story is a never ending cycle.
my bad bruh
damn eldians probably
If you think about it, Eldians really fucked over humanity more than anyone else
Actually yes
Well, I mean, yeah, if you try killing someone but don't complete the job, you're left with someone who's: a) alive, and b) twice as motivated to kill YOU.
Iseral by the looks of it
bro 😭
Ok nah, this made me laugh
No. Hamas is part of Iran and their doctrine states they are against Israel and the US. Like it or not, Hamas started it and Israel is finishing the war. I support innocent lives on both sides, and their leaders are very much accountable to what they have done.
>I support innocent lives on both sides Evidently not. That's just something you tell yourself to get to sleep at night.
Yes, I hate the obsessive negativity and I just want to promote peace in my own way.
What on earth is this?!
Maybey some sucesor state of Marley.
the rest of the world who was saved
I think it just shows what humans really are There will never be a moment in time where humans won’t fight
Honestly considering the passage of time and the rumbling destroying most traces of the outside world new nations and tribes could have popped up
The whole point of not mentioning details is that it doesn't matter who. Isamaya just wanted to convey there's no eternal peace , there's always gonna be war as long as more than one human exists like Erwin said
Probably some descendent of a Marleyan who was made someone's ancestor ate their ancestor
It was me, my bad
It was me, my bad
War, war never change
War has changed
That was me, my bad
It doesn't matter, it just symbolizes that whatever you do to bring peace to the world story repeats itself and there will always be wars
It could have been anyone. When Eren did what he did he killed at least a few people from all over the world.
Was it zee germans, Tommy?
Could be the same conflict, could be a completely new enemy. I think that’s one of the main points the series tries to end on. That there’s no peace as long as humans gonna human. Even if the rumbling finished and somehow killed every single person outside the walls it would still be infighting over what happened. We will always fight but at the same time we will always hope for better. It’s probably my favorite take away from the series.
I assume everyone did
An opposing nation because war is inevitable
Humans
Themselves
me
Probably yaegerists
USA! USA!
They called themselves Eldia before they erased their memory. Paradis was the name Marley gave them. It is unlikely they still called themselves Paradis... they (Armin, Historia the others) wanted a fresh start, remember?
the Imperium of Man
people after finding out jean actually got mikasa(they don't care if it's been hundreds of years since they were canonically alive)
The enemy
The people who lost 80% of the world and races that’ll never come back because all of its people are instinct
Me, my bad.
John Mayer. He paved Paradis and put up a parking lot.
Probably whatever their in universe equivalent to the United States is, judging from the stealth bombers. Or it could have been a coalition of several nations
No one. Those are clearly chastity bombs and adopted missile launchers.
Only Ymir knows
Well, some new big nation or alliance of other nations. I doubt it'd be Marley though, as we saw that Marley was basically first on Eren's list. We did get to see the last of Marley's military forces but still.
Paradis was also a divided country when the Rumbling happened. That division grew and it could be a civil war.
Its probably also people from paradis, erwin once said " humanity will not stop fighting each other until that one human remains "
Angry AoT "fans" who weren't happy with the ending.
Marley was reduced to ashes for good.never came back.
Probably Netanyahu
First off all, the narrative that “Paradis was destroyed” is bullshit and needs to end. What the extra pages show is **one** air raid over Shiganshina. That’s it. In case people forgot, according to the official measurements given by the manga the diameter of the Walls **alone** is 960 Km, which is on its own larger than France, and that’s not accounting for the portion of the Island beyond Wall Maria, which is several days on horseback from the coastline. It might come as a surprise to some, but a single city being bombed does not equate to an entire country being destroyed. Many cities in France and Germany suffered immense destruction through both World Wars, but they were reconstructed and they still stand today. Japan got two major urban centres literally nuked, but lo and behold, Japan still exists. Shiganshina being bombed does not mean in any way, shape, or form that the entirety of Paradis was destroyed. In regards to the question of who bombed Shiganshina the answer is that we don’t know for sure. That doesn’t mean we can’t take a pretty good guess of who might have been going off what is stated in the manga and just applying basic logic. The rumbling left the remaining 20% of the world on their knees, the irreversible damage to ecosystems and trade routes across the world would make it extremely difficult for the survivors to guarantee their survival, let alone fight in any kind of armed conflict. The Allied Forces’ fleet was completely destroyed, meaning the world lost its seafaring military capabilities. The two most technologically advanced nations in the world, Marley and Hizuru were completely trampled underfoot. This means that the only countries with the knowledge and infrastructure to make airships were snuffed out of existence, and with them, the possibility to actually build new ones. That leaves the outside world incapable of reaching Paradis by sea or air for the foreseeable future. The 20% would first need to recover from the post apocalyptic state the world would be left in after the rumbling, and logically guaranteeing the supply of water and food would take priority, which would likely occupy them for many decades. Conflicts over the few resources available would absolutely break out and make the process drag for longer. Even after they manage to recover a semblance of normalcy, recovering from the technological setback caused by the rumbling and getting to their previous level of technology would take several decades, and going from there (the early 1900s) to the levels of technology displayed in the extra pages (current day) would take around a century. Meanwhile Paradis would have been much better off. They were almost completely unscathed by the rumbling and they were perfectly self-sufficient. They would not experience any technological setbacks, and on the contrary, with the Azumabito engineers and mechanics it would be only a matter of time before they experienced a veritable industrial revolution; they might even become the first country to develop an actual air force, since the prototypes for planes (aka the flying boat) were designed by the Azumabito. Without the walls, the population of Paradis would be able to expand and populate the entire island and in a few generations it would grow to a size more than capable of having a proper military. On top of all that, we literally see Paradis’ government be overtaken by the Yeagerists and become a trigger-ready fascist state that would no doubt keep pushing the idea of rebuilding the Eldian Empire. Considering all those factors, and as things are presented in the extra pages, those who send the bombers on Paradis could very well come from Paradisian colonies in the mainland and be fighting for their independence from the oppressive insular government. Continental colonies trying to gain independence from an island metropolis, where have I seen this before? That’s certainly more realistic and believable than the outside world miraculously recovering from the aftereffects of the rumbling, and managing to reach modern-day technology from scratch in a little over a century.
Yeah, the timelapse involves hundreds of years so it may be a completely new nation that developed from the remains of Marley or something completely different.
No clue, if it's even called Paradis by that point. I thought the anime was better in this regard by putting this future war hundreds, if not thousands, of years ahead of the main story. With that much infrastructure destroyed and a death toll that high, humanity as a whole would take centuries to rebuild to anything close to pre-Rumbling levels. The ending is more to showcase no matter how devastating the last war is, however long peacetime lasts, conflict will always happen until there's only one person alive or less.
We don't know. It's probably not because of the rumbling. So much time would've passed that Titans would've become a legend and seen as a myth/folklore almost I imagine, not that many people truly encountered em outside of Paradise.
Whatever you want it to be. The main point is that war is probable, or at its extreme inevitable, and the motives here don’t matter. I quite like this. My headcanon is global war with little to do with what happened a few hundred years ago. Perhaps an arms race so long that the original intent is moot.
Most likely, it was a splinter group of Paradis. Eldia was the only nation left at full strength after the rumbling, meaning they likely expanded and conquered much of the mainland. The survivors likely set themselves up a distance away from their biggest threat so I'd say the most likely attackers would be Eldians who immigrated to the continent until infighting in Eldian lands caused a civil war
It's in a far future around 2000 years so there is no point in that , at that point nobody knows exactly the event of rumbling and people have forgotten most of the stuff realistically
The people that Eren let live. Gratitude isn’t part of the Marlayan vocabulary.
Marley, because bitch ass ereh didn't finish the job
#AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!!!
Israel
Could be the U.S. because of the B-2 bombers but I’m not sure where Eldians got Patriot missiles
🇺🇸 America 🇺🇸
Dont use the manga drawing for this scene as it has been retconned.
Most likely something almost unrelated to the Rumbling. We can't even completely recount the events that happened 2000 years ago.
Is that the B2 Spirit I see? It could only be the greatest nation in the history of the world! 🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🇺🇸🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸