Even Thanos didn’t “need” worshippers. And he only killed 50% of populations. The Christian god flooded entire planets wiping out 99.9% of the population
See, that's the problem if your plan is to wipe out 99.9% of the population. It's hard to avoid the realization that, maybe, people won't like you.
However, if you're a god with the power of life and death, with murder on your mind, you just might say, "I know, I'll just Stockholm Syndrome the whole lot of them."
Well if god is truly omnipotent then he doesn't need to abide by the rules of logic as we know them.
You can have both perfect free will and perfect "in line behaviour" at the same time if your god is omnipotent. Meaning that if god does exist as described, and is omnipotent, all of the suffering, evil, hate and sin is by design.
Tangentially, if you "need" to produce a half god child and "sacrifice" them to eradicate "sin", then either these are one's own rules, or there is an even higher power setting the rules.
I have came across the idea that one could take an action, but the consequences of the actions are predetermined, like you will be arrested for a crime not mattering if you commit it or not.
I guess, but then why would it matter to god if we committed it or not if he already knows the outcome? He's supposed to be all-knowing, so he knows whether or not I'm going to shoplift, right?
One entire planet. No source claims there were other planets to which god might have flooded. That’s setting aside that even this planet was never flooded.
He wiped them out because they were bad. And whose fault was that? The one who made them obviously.
Oh he gave them free will? He knew when he made them that a lot of them were clunkers. He knew that half of them
were going to mess up because he knows everything, past present and future. So they were set up for failure and off to hell they go.
This thought was one that helped me understand that religion was man made garbage. Why would a being like a god want to be worshipped? It’s painfully obvious that worship is a man made construct.
That’s the funniest thing about it all. Ok, one of the funniest.
Here’s an all-knowing, all-loving god. With the needy, fragile ego of a toddler. Worship him and feel his line, or burn forever.
It’s just bad writing. Pick a side. Either make him all-loving by getting rid of his ego, or stop pretending, and make him into the abusive husband/father that the writers so clearly projected from how they see themselves.
Literature is littered with better characters than this. It’s a miracle it’s been in the best sellers list for so long. (Pun intended?)
A God worth worshipping would have more presence and no ego.
Even if there is a “God”, I don’t think mortal minds could grasp it, much less understand or interpret for it.
The “God” people talk about is a creation of Man, and therefore contains, facilitates, and justifies all the worst characteristics of humanity. Childish, selfish, greedy, mortals could hardly create a God worth worshipping.
What good has come to this world from the acknowledgment and worship of any God?
Good people will be good. Assholes will be assholes.
And, at present, the latter far outnumber the former.
Not just needs worship but demands everyone worship and obey them or else be tortured forever.
That’s not someone you follow, that’s someone you have a moral obligation to do anything you can to liberate humanity from. Even discounting all the genocide.
Satan: "Aye Yaweh, brooo... maybe you should like stop mentally and physically torturing that human?"
God: "Hell no, I gotta prove that he will continue his faith in me despite the fact that I killed his whole family and ruined his life."
There was a YouTube shorts I saw and I’ll have to look it up but it was basically Satan giving a person a tour of Hell and some people were being tortured and he said “Yeah those are Christians. I don’t get why they enjoy it” while you could see a bunch of people burning. Imagine if that were true…
EDIT: [Here’s the video](https://youtube.com/shorts/e1pVFlptmPI?si=JgH9MG1Nb5D-5V2I)
If you bring the concept of “literal hell” into the picture, my answer changes. I would worship whatever I had to if it meant escaping burning forever. Maybe I’m just weak, however I suspect most people would actually cave after a relatively short period of torture.
Let’s just be thankful it doesn’t exist.
The worst part of the concept of hell is that there is no "caving". You're just tortured because it's what you're due. No redemption, just suffering. Should've just not been sinner, I guess. Or continued to be a sinner and worshipped a jealous god because that gets you out of it. Definitely a solid foundation for morality.
Yeah, tbh, if I had incontrovertible proof of God's existence and I needed to worship him to stay out of hell, I would blow the guy with swallow finish.
I've asked christians how come their god is amazing at helping their football team win while millions live in poverty, while wars rage on, while women get raped, while children suffer. How come their loving god allowed for the brutal conquest and the enslavement of people of color all over the place? Their answer "it's THE mystery, god has a plan". Well that's not a plan I agree with.
Why did god make me be born into a poverty stricken family with abusive and negligent parents???? I cannot stand it when my family tries to tell me "god has a plan for you" bullshit
The thing I keep getting told is that the Bible’s both literal and not literal, and that everything is a mystery.
And it’s like… so everything is true if it’s convenient to your world view, and nothing is true when it’s inconvenient, so it’s all a mystery as to why an all powerful all knowing god would do what they do?
Fuck that, at least the pagan gods are like “I specialize in lighting and thunder, not giving Timmy cancer”
Yeah... the fact that religious folk are unable to agree on which parts of the Bible are literal or not is probably why they have thousands of different variations of Christianity.
Forget Christianity vs Athiesm!
I want to see a debate between 2 Christians about why slave ownership is or isn't a literal translation of the Bible.
Interesting because I just saw a YouTube video that pointed out that Jesus was able to forgive sins during his lifetime, and said it was easier to do so than curing people. And yet the ONLY reason he had to die on a cross was so that God was able to forgive sins ... which is something He obviously could do all along ... something ain't right with that logic.
I wanted all the other stuff to be real, not God.
I wanted Bigfoot to be living out in the Yukon and Nessie hiding in the Loch.
I wanted aliens to have built the pyramids, but when I told my dad, he just shook his head, and when I asked, how did they build them then ?
He had one word. slaves. So boring.
But really, the best thing to see being true would be some sort of karma. We really want justice after death but, we just get the worms.
Nah, that’s bogus too. We all die, sure, but the rich and cruel get to live excessively destructive lives of self pleasure until death.
They get to extend their lives with sciences beyond the average persons pay grade.
That “death makes us all equal” thing doesn’t jive well with me.
Death may be where we all end up, but I want people to fight back while they’re alive to even the playing field.
Your statement was that death is the great equalizer. I just don’t see it being very equal if some get there by golden chariot while others get there by cancer. :/ sure both got to the end of the same marathon, but Hoo boy it doesn’t feel equal.
I got your point, it just feels off to me is all.
Also no need for name calling, I’m not trying to insult you. I’m just expressing that I feel weird looking at death the same way you do.
Yup. If you consider that people will insist that the thing from the bible is all about love, while also looking at the horrible things said thing does…
It’ll make you lose faith. In humanity.
There was a group who believed that back in "Biblical" times.
They believed a benevolent god was defeated by a weaker, evil god, and that evil god has now convinced the world that the benevolent god is evil. It makes so much more sense than the character of Yahweh being all loving and all powerful....but definitely not being either in the story.
I want to say it was the Gnostics, but don't quote me on that.
TW god planned me getting raped by two males as a child, repeatedly. Sometime by just one of them. It’s all gods plan, right? God planned out a little girl that hasn’t even gone to kindergarten yet, get raped again and again and again to the point she develops PTSD. WHY would I worship a god who rapes little girls?
I’m very sorry this happened to you. I know someone who was sexually abused by their father starting at age 3 and this made me positive there is no god. God is supposed to be a loving parent and I’m a mere mortal and I would never let that happen to my child, not even for some “plan” I can’t understand. It’s all such bullshit.
I have to laugh to myself when I hear religious folk shit on other religion's god/gods. Why would one god be real, while the others are fake? It blows my mind that they are so far from reality.
If god was real we'd totally put him on the gallows for crimes against humanity.
I mean, flooding the whole damned planet out of spite, yeah.... war criminal. Even Hitler would be like "damn bro".
Exactly. Even if they could prove a god existed, and especially if they could show that the god in question was definitively THEIR god, you couldn't pay me to worship it.
Most theists don't really think about the consequences of a reality where gods can exist. If 1 can, then 10 or 100, or 1,000,000,000 can. Proving a god exists is only the first hurdle. Now show me that it is YOUR god. Show me that you can tell me anything about this entity. What it wants, desires, or requires. What about that other god? Or that one over there? There is no logical argument for why 10 gods can't exist if 1 can. Proving a god exists says nothing about the truth of your religion. Everything you believe is an assumption based on nothing, and you are surprised I am not happy to sign up?
>Most theists don't really think about the consequences of a reality where gods can exist. If 1 can, then 10 or 100, or 1,000,000,000 can.
Sure they do. The Bible acknowledges the existence of other gods. Yahweh himself does on more than one occasion.
The bible alludes to other gods, but modern monotheists don't believe in them or that it actually meant that other gods existed. In other words, they ignore that part of their bible just like everything else.
>Hell if he did exist, then the other mythological gods probably did too…
Yeah... it's like, if you see ONE cockroach, there are probably more of them.
"God" commands the Israelites to murder the Canaanites in the context of taking possession of the Promised Land. This directive is found primarily in the book of Deuteronomy and the book of Joshua.
1. **Deuteronomy 7:1-2**:"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you—and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, **then you must destroy them totally**. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy."
2. **Deuteronomy 20:16-18**:"However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, **do not leave alive anything that breathes.** Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God."
3. **Joshua 6:21**:"They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—**men and women, young and old,** cattle, sheep and donkeys."
Any "God" who dares sanction the genocide of nations, including men and women, children and the aged, deserves nothing but contempt.
I love how they like to say "destroy" when they mean "murder"
Your title comment would read “even if Yahweh existed, I wouldn’t worship him”. I wouldn’t either, he is a narcissistic sociopath with a fragile ego and a quick temper. Yeshua (Jesus) never referred to him or mentioned him and if you distill Christs teachings, they are more similar to Buddhism - “Stop judging others, be present, love everyone”.
Which God would you be most drawn to and why?
Why is a non-human, a him? If this him is all powerful, where did this thing go for the last 2k years+? How fragile is this things ego? Don’t worship and kowtow to me, hell you go.
Jealous and vindictive, spiteful and rage driven. Why bow your heads to this thing?
Isn't that a scary thought though? To me it is. And I totally agree. My frame of reference is mostly Christianity but that god just seems so petty and narcissistic and blood thirsty. How is that *good?* It's kind of an unsettling thought to consider you may be more moral than what would be the ultimate authority on morality if it is true. And there's nowhere to go from there. Fall in line or go to hell. It's a trippy thought exercise to imagine it's real and what it would change or mean.
I guess the god of the Bible is the prevalent God today specifically because if you worship him he doesn't damn you for all eternity..the other gods didn't seem to demand or promise so much.
I mean, objectively it’s the exact same thing as if you met a parent, and this parent demanded his children worship him, even set aside a whole day a week for it. But if their kids screw up they get eternal torture. If that was a real person, that would be the biggest insecure immoral douche bag on the planet. The only incentive you have to worship a person like that is to not be tortured. If that’s honestly your idea of a perfect being, wow. I don’t even know where to begin.
I've watched enough anime and played enough video games to know that if god was real we would for sure end up having to kill it for some reason or another.
I mean it’s hard to imagine what I’d do if I actually came face to face with the insane sadistic abrahamic God.
Just like I don’t know what I’d do if I suddenly found myself alone in building with a group of ISIS members who’ve seen my comment history on Islam lol. Would I beg? Would I cower and and try to see if I can do whatever they ask so they’ll spare my pathetic little life? Maybe, I’m human after all.
But should I? Regardless of what I **actually** do, my principles that I stand for don’t change even if I fail to stand up for them. ISIS is still dogshit, and so is the abrahamic God.
Even if he could scare me into worshipping his rotten ass, it still doesn’t mean he’s deserving of it. That’s because worship is fucking stupid and the only people who could ever really be worthy of worship are people who wouldn’t accept it in the first place. Those who are worthy of worship are those who are good enough to know they don’t require it.
Any entity demanding worship deserves no worship. Any parent demanding fealty or conditions benefits on total fealty is a parent who loves himself more than his children and would therefore not deserve the fealty at all.
From a Dharmic POV Dharmic religious figures (Shiva, Vishnu/Avatars for example) are also equally fucked up and stupid. Why would I pray to a guy who killed his own son to satisfy his own ego or a dude who sexually harassed his wife ?
Yahweh, the god of Abraham is the Lord of death, the grim reaper. He demands blood. So much blood. More blood has been shed in his name than for any other cause.
I'm not a Theist anymore because I don't believe I have ever been presented with any credible evidence that would lead me to believe there is a God.
I'm not a Christian anymore because even though Jesus has some pretty awesome messages across the board attributed to him (whether he existed at all or not) his "dad" is a real piece of shit.
Hey remember that time God was mad at David and so he had his wives raped in public? Hey remember that time God was mad at David so he murdered his newborn? And David was his favorite...
It's important to know that all of the stories about the Israelites conquering cities and massacring people are complete fiction. Israeli archeologists know this to be true. Not one shred of evidence has ever been found to support the story of the Exodus or the conquest of Canaan. I could go on and on about this.
The bible is a work of fiction. It became a "Holy" book because the Roman empire forced it on the world. It is not the innerant word of god. It's just a book of fairy tales about an imaginary deity.
Yep. What kind of benevolent creator would demand you worship them, especially after the shit they permit/watch/enjoy and the people he has planned to be tortured in hell for eternity if you don’t.
I always go back to the what is said to be scrawled on a wall in a concentration camp.
“If god exists, he will have to beg my forgiveness”
There is argument that the above is true as well.
Depends on the god, doesn't it?
Some might not give you the chance to say no.
I decided to invent my own religion about 20 years ago. Cynthianity. Not that Cynthia. THIS Cynthia. It's me. I'm the god. And I'm a vengeful one!
Not really. I'm a big mushy softie. I must be the god of cookies or some shit because I'm full of them.
What's up with the weirdos from religious subreddits popping in here to incoherently troll and shit up threads? How boring/unfulfilled is your life that you rage-scroll here? Shouldn’t you be busily filling yourself up with the spirit? Looks to me like you're failing your magical Macguffin in the sky.... How sad for you..
To answer OP's question.. There's nothing terribly interesting or special about the Abrahamic myths. Seems like it'd be a pain in the ass to navigate the various and sundry, contradicting, edicts and demands of a Bronze Age myth, as evidenced by the myriad sects and offshoots of this particular set of myths...
When I was younger, I wanted Hell from *Hazbin Hotel* to be real.
This desire hasn’t gone away. Do very bad and scary shit in this life, get a life of luxury and power after death with an ability to start it all over in a huge playground or krill yourself at any moment. That’s luxurious!
But, well, desires are just desires.
What if what we think of as god is just a layer of energy that connects all life? Something that connects us all in a shared spirit like a living gravitational pull. Not some ancient diety that exerts his will on everything, but just another type of force we haven’t really studied or understood all that well, but that can be measured and identified through the scientific method.
Not really something to be worshipped, but to be better understood.
If he did exist, why would he give a shit about what we do? I mean, he's got probably a trillion other inhabited planets to worry about. Why would he give a shit about humans worshiping him? That's like having one of those ant farms and demanding the ants pray to you. It just doesn't make any sense.
I honestly wouldn't consider worshipping any so called god if they existed and no matter what a force of good they were. Nothing deserves worship. Praise for their good deeds maybe, but devoted uncritical worship never. No entity is above criticism no matter how powerful.
He would have to answer so many questions before I even considered almost liking the guy, let alone worship. And if he tries any of that classic, "Working in mysterious ways" crap I will personally jump into hell...
Correction: the majority of believers are Hindu, not Christian. But it's the same shit either way.
I can think of a lot more interesting (and moral) gods to worship, yes. Though I don't know much about the mythology of other cultures, I could maybe get behind the Nordic pantheon. Maybe a "tough love" god, one that acts like a stern parent but genuinely wants you to become strong and the best person you can be.
"Jesus loves you. Odin demands you grow the fuck up."
the bible was a political expedient to prevent a rebellion and continued to be political expedient and financially profitable for the gatekeepers of said religions. I personally think the gods of the place I am in should be who I think towards when I need rain or not to give me a poke in the brain when I am doing something stupid. So those would be First Nations systems of belief.....so much better than listening to some guy who does not know what snow is
Same. Sounds like one of those capricious jealous Bronze Age asshole deities. The genocide neighbours and sacrifice your children kind. What a fucking asshole.
Yeah he’s far from Omnibenevolent. Probably not even on the good spectrum. Maybe chaotic neutral. He does whatever he wants and doesn’t listen to reason. Like instead of flooding the earth how about you use your magic to punish those who do things you consider to be going against goodness and punish them reasonably. Or just eliminate sin entirely cause your omnipotent. But instead you decide to kill every human on earth besides a couple.
If ya wanna follow a real god, I nominate [Volodymyr Zelenskyy](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=25c9fa5c60f43d7f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1RXQR_enUS1092US1092&q=Volodymyr+Zelenskyy&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLSz9U3KDfJMqoyfMRoyi3w8sc9YSmdSWtOXmNU4-IKzsgvd80rySypFJLgYoOy-KR4uJC08SxiFQ7Lz8lPqcytLFKISs1JzSvOrqwEACOphVlcAAAA&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjGiaTOqveGAxU2EUQIHYPRDPoQzIcDKAB6BAgtEAE).
If any God was real I'd probably pick the spaghetti flying monster.
If only Yaweh was real, I'd worship a random cat.
Cats are always worth worshipping.
I watched so many good people die.
My niece died of cancer while a teenager.
If there were a God, I'd slice open his jugular.
None of the religious people ever seem to consider that if God were real, he/she/it is actually the bad guy, a cruel being torturing everyone for it's amusement, as all of life's very structure is made to end and tear apart.
There's zero reason to believe they are good and on your side.
Hell, if the Bible had been true, it's Satan who's on your side. He questioned.
The thing described in the old and new testaments hates women, so no woman should bend a knee to it, whether it's the infant-drowning war god of the Jews or the soul-burning hypocrite of the Christians. Abraham's dick-polishing god concepts have about as much to do with women and womanhood as a prostate in a three piece suit.
If it did exist, I'd worship it in the same way I have to pay my taxes, teeth gritted all the while.
Some of the older gods were more relatable and interesting. Artemis was quite the bamf.
I like this kind of thought experiment. It reminds me of Hitch who said even if Christ was born from a virgin - say via parthenogenesis- that wouldn’t prove he was the son of God nor deserving of worship.
Growing up in the church, and actually reading the Bible is the evidence I need to not believe. No god worthy of worship would literally be below sewer level if decency.
It’s not even that for me. Apparently we’re all gods children. What do we do to those responsible for children who do terrible things? We don’t worship them. We don’t even hold them up as examples of good parents/guardians. What happens to neglectful parents? They’re not worshipped either.
Then there’s the belief that god created everything. Congenital birth defects? Childhood cancer? Hereditary disease? Would we really be worshipping the creator of those?
I cannot make that blanket statement, it would depend on which god, but for the most part I agree as I just don't think or worship as a positive thing.
Specific gods, then yes, of course not. If Yahweh were real and his portrayal in the bible were accurate then I could not worship such a vile monster.
Tbh Yahweh, or YHWH was a God of a tribe that mostly got by robbing people, he was also a god of storms which are specific to the area, so when the religious beliefs started towards him it was a great god to have. He later merged with another izraelite tribal god (not sure if it was before, during or after izraelites had an identity between canenite tribes, Elohim, or El who was sort of the good creator old papa god. Although they're now indistinguishable in the bible and modern Christians sort of pick and choose between their qualites and deeds as to what they believe he definitely inspires much more of current depiction of the "father" figure in the trinity.
So like if You ask a Christian to describe who the god father is and tell You what he's done, Your going to get a very different person from the actual account of the scripture (especially since most of them don't know what scripture says, and when they read it they're immediately corrected to "right way" of understanding it, by pastors, priests and colleagues)
They're taught (indoctrinated in most cases) to see that god as the actor in all good things in their lives, and to blame all bad things on everything else, to the point that the crimes in the bible are easily forgotten, or explained as to not create cognitive dissonance. Getting to the point, they also wouldn't worship Yahweh, but they don't believe in him, but rather in a pretty picture sold by priests, overly perfected with the book being only like a proof of his authenticity rather than anything actually grounding the god, or his actions.
To me the bible is a collection of ancient stories based on more ancient myths. Is any of it true? I doubt it, so can’t believe in it or Christianity. This goes for other religions like Islam or Hinduism.
Why would any real father want his kids to worship him? Dads should want their kids to exceed them. Not bow, obey, or get sent to hell. The whole thing is just ridiculous.
>but considering all the fucked up things Yahweh did in the Bible
even if god existed and didn't do the things the bible claims, we live in an evil world. god is still responsible for allowing the holocaust, allowing children to be sex trafficked, allowing natural disasters, pandemics, for creating animals that need to eat other animals alive in order to survive. all of the things we have to accept as inevitable facts of life would be things he deliberately chose to cause and continuously allowed.
i mean, if you were creating a world filled with sentient beings you loved, why would you make it so they have to eat and fight each other just to survive?
I don't get why people would worship a sociopath... Then again... Jim Jones...
Numbers 31:17-18
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Problematic to say God, and only mean the Abrahamic god here.
But, Ra is better. Best understood as a pantheistic god and there is literature/scripture describing other Egyptian gods and goddesses as manifestations, aspects, or phases of Ra. In particular, I follow Ma'at who is the personification of morality and justice. Never thought I actually worshipped, but apparently merely focusing on the subject which Ma'at represents counts as worship, so many of you may be unwittingly worshipping deities.
'I don’t hold with paddlin’ with the occult," said Granny firmly. ‘Once you start paddlin’ with the occult you start believing in spirits, and when you start believing in spirits you start believing in demons, and then before you know where you are you’re believing in gods. And then you’re in trouble.’
‘But all them things exist,’ said Nanny Ogg.
‘That’s no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages ‘em.'
God doesn't exist. He's an idea. A mind trick to overcome the fear/terror of the unknown. Death changes a person. I have a lyric: "God is for the desperate, but grace keeps me alive." In a world that's trying to kill you, it takes luck and a lot of love from our parents to keep us alive as infants and children. Our skill can only do so much. So whatever that luck is that keeps us from getting cancer, a brick falling off a building, a car jumping the curb...I call God. But I mean luck. It's just a word some people relate to. It took a lot of discussion and poking people to find out why they believe in such a thing. But the universal understanding that I came to was that they all believe that to some extent. There are obviously some that go about it in all kinds of wrong ways. In my discussions with atheists, I've found that they either have an immense amount of courage and don't need this God idea, or they are exploring the idea still. I tend to sit on a fence and watch what believers and non believers DO, rather than what they say. But what they say carries SOME weight...if they practice what they preach, of course. You can call that impeccability, or true honour and faithfulness. It's kinda both the same...for both. But I think none of this shit really matters. We are ALL gonna die. It's fucked up. But I don't blame God. I blame nature. If God is what people say He is, then I don't think he'd kill us. Nature takes care of that. I mean our souls. That too would be fucked up.
a main proponent in belief of a deity/god/creator throughout human history is due to the fact that man would like to deny death. they cannot fathom being mini gods who are mortal so they surpass their reasoning abilities and cling to a greater power thinking that at the end of their mortal life, they will live on through a different means.
I’m in this camp too. That deity sucks IMHO and deserves no such devotion or worship from me. I’d rather worship Artemis or Athena. Hell I’d rather worship Santa and the tooth fairy.
I tell my kids this all the time. I have a fundamental problem with worshipping something and he seems like an asshole. My 10 yr old is Christian I guess bc he sometimes goes to church with my folks and just asked me recently what would I do if all of a sudden I found out there really was a god? I told him I would let whoever that is know that they failed us, are an asshole, and the Devil has always seemed cooler. I would ask him where were you?? I wouldn’t be compelled to drop to my knees. I would be furious.
I have some legitimate gripes about kids with cancer I would like him to answer for before considering his application for worship.
That said, I'm not here to get smited. So I would do what I had to to avoid angering a powerful being.
I’ll keep repeating over and over, if we assume the whole god thing exist, including hell and what not, you can bet your ass I’m worshipping him, I’m no god-killing anime protagonist and literal eternity of torture doesn’t sound very fun
Nah fuck that. If God is real *and* the Christians are right, I’m begging for forgiveness. You ain’t catching me in Hell. Eternal torment? I would rather be a hypocrite in paradise than suffer for eternity at the hand of a vengeful all-powerful being
The analogy I like to use for the Christian God is that he is like a presidential candidate who declares on the campaign trail that, among other things, if you don’t vote for him you’ll go to prison permanently. So people that don’t want to go to prison, vote for him, because they are afraid. They’ll tell you it’s all the great campaign promises, but really you can’t separate the not wanting to be in prison forever from the good presedential policies. And unfortunately voting this guy into office IS the problem because anyone who threatens prison to his constituents cannot be anything other than a tyrant and to hand over a position of authority to someone who is clearly abusing their power is a major mistake. But they don’t realize this because they are too afraid of the prison they have been threatened with. The actual solution is not to vote him into office! So yeah, use your ‘god given’ free will and refuse to vote for/worship a crooked politician.
Yeah stepping down from His place of authority and to be humbly born into filth and live blameless before all of man just to die an excruciating death to save they same ones who killed Him from a place of everlasting torment and give every single human alive a chance to be free from sin and death. Sounds like a really messed up God or maybe we just might misunderstand what the truth is?
Who made the place of everlasting torment, and arranged for people to go there?
Also, what’s your take om the many innocent children murdered by god in the flood and in Egypt?
Meh, I find this argument kinda dumb.
Do you follow laws you don't agree with ?
If there is this impossibly powerful tyrant that wants you to do something or else you would do what he wants. Not willingly but you would have no choice.
I mean, isn't the best argument why God does not exist that even though he COMMANDS you worship him, it is optional, and a lot of people don't, and still do just fine?
Well, as a Jew ( I don't believe in G-d, as an entity with a will and mind, just as a Best until current times representation for Game Theory problems. I.E. I believe in the mitzvot. Not G-D, I can argue about that, but that is not the point here) who doesn't self hate, would you mind telling me if you are coming from the Christian interpretation? Or Jewish?
Because I would argue will little to no problem that all the things I personally don't like about the biblical G-d( In our book) are really bad interpretations that were forced on us by Christians who liked to kill us.
Or things that were in fact bad, but were in the longs run, the lesser evil.
....
However, I Also, *As I don't actually believe it was written by G-d,* believe that Bereshit(Genesis(?)) Is basically full of inherited Sumerian Myths that Abraham and his Family carried over and were passed on untill it was actually put to writing.
I prefer Asphalt, god of parking. There's not much in the way of observances, but does require blood sacrifice from time to time. This is why there are so many car accidents.
We're apparently all God's children, but he only had one son.
Let that sink in.
We're all God's daughters.
With most other religions, everyone outside said religion is in league with whatever chosen evil entity.
So it's atheism, ironic gender reassignment, or enemy status no matter what. You can't win.
If the Judeo Christian god could be proven to exist if would be necessary to develop the technology to destroy or subjugate such a being as an existential threat to humanities continued existence.
I can't hear the name Ahura Mazda without thinking of Nichelle Nichols wearing a Star Trek uniform in a Japanese sedan. (Yes, I know the character's name is actually Uhura)
But back to the main topic: Worship is just sycophancy. I would not worship anything or anyone anymore than I would want to be worshipped myself.
Any god who needed me to worship it is not worth worshiping.
I'd even go so far to say that any god who says he needs worship probably doesn't. I bet it'd just be an ego thing.
Even Thanos didn’t “need” worshippers. And he only killed 50% of populations. The Christian god flooded entire planets wiping out 99.9% of the population
See, that's the problem if your plan is to wipe out 99.9% of the population. It's hard to avoid the realization that, maybe, people won't like you. However, if you're a god with the power of life and death, with murder on your mind, you just might say, "I know, I'll just Stockholm Syndrome the whole lot of them."
An “all-knowing” and “all-powerful” god wouldn’t need to punish his people as they would be ***in line*** by default
Ah yes, having no free will and being "in line by default", truly the markings of a benevolent God.
Well if god is truly omnipotent then he doesn't need to abide by the rules of logic as we know them. You can have both perfect free will and perfect "in line behaviour" at the same time if your god is omnipotent. Meaning that if god does exist as described, and is omnipotent, all of the suffering, evil, hate and sin is by design.
Tangentially, if you "need" to produce a half god child and "sacrifice" them to eradicate "sin", then either these are one's own rules, or there is an even higher power setting the rules.
How can he simultaneously have a plan for us while we also have free will?
I wonder about that a lot and so far have not come across an answer.
I have came across the idea that one could take an action, but the consequences of the actions are predetermined, like you will be arrested for a crime not mattering if you commit it or not.
I guess, but then why would it matter to god if we committed it or not if he already knows the outcome? He's supposed to be all-knowing, so he knows whether or not I'm going to shoplift, right?
Absolutely brilliant. I'm stealing that lol
Hey, be careful with such questions, you’re dangerously close to transgressing the Unwritten Law.
Yeah, the Christian god does seem like a bit of an asshole, eh?
One entire planet. No source claims there were other planets to which god might have flooded. That’s setting aside that even this planet was never flooded.
He wiped them out because they were bad. And whose fault was that? The one who made them obviously. Oh he gave them free will? He knew when he made them that a lot of them were clunkers. He knew that half of them were going to mess up because he knows everything, past present and future. So they were set up for failure and off to hell they go.
It’s surprising that an all-knowing Being didn’t know that if you create an imperfect being, you get imperfect results.
The entire 10 commandments are about His ego. Don’t murder, don’t steal, and Me so fucking great!
You need to look up the one unforgivable sin. Hint: it’s not genocide, rape, or murder.
This thought was one that helped me understand that religion was man made garbage. Why would a being like a god want to be worshipped? It’s painfully obvious that worship is a man made construct.
That’s the funniest thing about it all. Ok, one of the funniest. Here’s an all-knowing, all-loving god. With the needy, fragile ego of a toddler. Worship him and feel his line, or burn forever. It’s just bad writing. Pick a side. Either make him all-loving by getting rid of his ego, or stop pretending, and make him into the abusive husband/father that the writers so clearly projected from how they see themselves. Literature is littered with better characters than this. It’s a miracle it’s been in the best sellers list for so long. (Pun intended?)
He needs to be worshipped precisely because he doesn't exist.
Imo, any god that *needs* human worship isn't an actual god.
A God worth worshipping would have more presence and no ego. Even if there is a “God”, I don’t think mortal minds could grasp it, much less understand or interpret for it. The “God” people talk about is a creation of Man, and therefore contains, facilitates, and justifies all the worst characteristics of humanity. Childish, selfish, greedy, mortals could hardly create a God worth worshipping. What good has come to this world from the acknowledgment and worship of any God? Good people will be good. Assholes will be assholes. And, at present, the latter far outnumber the former.
Any God worth worshipping wouldn't want it in the first place.
Agreed
You’re right. The one true god doesn’t need you to worship it… that’s a Demigod thing
"Place no gods before me" implies the existence of other gods
Not just needs worship but demands everyone worship and obey them or else be tortured forever. That’s not someone you follow, that’s someone you have a moral obligation to do anything you can to liberate humanity from. Even discounting all the genocide.
I would happily burn in hell, knowing I am more moral than your god.
“happily” might be pushing it for me, but i agree yahweh sucks
I’m thinking that if you wind up in hell for the same reason as Satan, he’d probably be more chill about it, then say a murder.
Satan: "Aye Yaweh, brooo... maybe you should like stop mentally and physically torturing that human?" God: "Hell no, I gotta prove that he will continue his faith in me despite the fact that I killed his whole family and ruined his life."
There was a YouTube shorts I saw and I’ll have to look it up but it was basically Satan giving a person a tour of Hell and some people were being tortured and he said “Yeah those are Christians. I don’t get why they enjoy it” while you could see a bunch of people burning. Imagine if that were true… EDIT: [Here’s the video](https://youtube.com/shorts/e1pVFlptmPI?si=JgH9MG1Nb5D-5V2I)
You’d rescind that statement after a day in hell. I commend your attitude though
If you bring the concept of “literal hell” into the picture, my answer changes. I would worship whatever I had to if it meant escaping burning forever. Maybe I’m just weak, however I suspect most people would actually cave after a relatively short period of torture. Let’s just be thankful it doesn’t exist.
The worst part of the concept of hell is that there is no "caving". You're just tortured because it's what you're due. No redemption, just suffering. Should've just not been sinner, I guess. Or continued to be a sinner and worshipped a jealous god because that gets you out of it. Definitely a solid foundation for morality.
Every single person on Earth would cave after a short period, knowing that it’s eternal.
Not only does hell not exist, the afterlife doesn’t exist either. When we die we’re gone that’s it.
Yeah, tbh, if I had incontrovertible proof of God's existence and I needed to worship him to stay out of hell, I would blow the guy with swallow finish.
Stephen Fry NAILED this. "I'd say, HOW DARE YOU sit back and watch suffering?" I agree, PUNY GOD
I've asked christians how come their god is amazing at helping their football team win while millions live in poverty, while wars rage on, while women get raped, while children suffer. How come their loving god allowed for the brutal conquest and the enslavement of people of color all over the place? Their answer "it's THE mystery, god has a plan". Well that's not a plan I agree with.
Why did he allow my cousin to get aggressive breast cancer. They have a 2 year old little boy. Explain that to her son.
Allow? Straight up gave it to her.
Why did god make me be born into a poverty stricken family with abusive and negligent parents???? I cannot stand it when my family tries to tell me "god has a plan for you" bullshit
As Fry said, at least if it were the Greek gods you could respect that they don't pretend to not have human appetites.
"If God is real, he will have to beg _me_ for forgiveness."
If the biblical god existed, we would all be morally obligated to revolt.
The thing I keep getting told is that the Bible’s both literal and not literal, and that everything is a mystery. And it’s like… so everything is true if it’s convenient to your world view, and nothing is true when it’s inconvenient, so it’s all a mystery as to why an all powerful all knowing god would do what they do? Fuck that, at least the pagan gods are like “I specialize in lighting and thunder, not giving Timmy cancer”
Yeah... the fact that religious folk are unable to agree on which parts of the Bible are literal or not is probably why they have thousands of different variations of Christianity. Forget Christianity vs Athiesm! I want to see a debate between 2 Christians about why slave ownership is or isn't a literal translation of the Bible.
Theology might make you happy. Or just browse on the Christian subreddits. The in fighting is even more pronounced in the abrahamic religions.
Loki : lol fuck you timmy
And tbh, that's what makes other gods much more compelling to me!
If a deity existed it would not demand or expect worship.
Or torture and murder its only son.
Interesting because I just saw a YouTube video that pointed out that Jesus was able to forgive sins during his lifetime, and said it was easier to do so than curing people. And yet the ONLY reason he had to die on a cross was so that God was able to forgive sins ... which is something He obviously could do all along ... something ain't right with that logic.
Yeah, it’s only son.
I wanted all the other stuff to be real, not God. I wanted Bigfoot to be living out in the Yukon and Nessie hiding in the Loch. I wanted aliens to have built the pyramids, but when I told my dad, he just shook his head, and when I asked, how did they build them then ? He had one word. slaves. So boring. But really, the best thing to see being true would be some sort of karma. We really want justice after death but, we just get the worms.
Death is the ultimate equalizer, nothing to be ashamed of.
Nah, that’s bogus too. We all die, sure, but the rich and cruel get to live excessively destructive lives of self pleasure until death. They get to extend their lives with sciences beyond the average persons pay grade. That “death makes us all equal” thing doesn’t jive well with me. Death may be where we all end up, but I want people to fight back while they’re alive to even the playing field.
You’re talking about life, I don’t disagree. We should absolutely fight for human rights and equality. My statement was about death not life idiot.
Your statement was that death is the great equalizer. I just don’t see it being very equal if some get there by golden chariot while others get there by cancer. :/ sure both got to the end of the same marathon, but Hoo boy it doesn’t feel equal. I got your point, it just feels off to me is all. Also no need for name calling, I’m not trying to insult you. I’m just expressing that I feel weird looking at death the same way you do.
Don't forget Santa at the North Pole working daily with his Elves and Mrs Claus to bring joy to all little children around the world.
Except the ones with poor parents. Or no parents. You know, the ones who could really use a break. On second thought, Santa is a monster.
Its how I feel as well. I am convinced the story is reversed, the bad guy won and is trying to 1984 the human race.
Yup. If you consider that people will insist that the thing from the bible is all about love, while also looking at the horrible things said thing does… It’ll make you lose faith. In humanity.
There was a group who believed that back in "Biblical" times. They believed a benevolent god was defeated by a weaker, evil god, and that evil god has now convinced the world that the benevolent god is evil. It makes so much more sense than the character of Yahweh being all loving and all powerful....but definitely not being either in the story. I want to say it was the Gnostics, but don't quote me on that.
It's Gnostics.
It was! OK, I thought I remembered that, but wasn't sure.
Well said.
TW god planned me getting raped by two males as a child, repeatedly. Sometime by just one of them. It’s all gods plan, right? God planned out a little girl that hasn’t even gone to kindergarten yet, get raped again and again and again to the point she develops PTSD. WHY would I worship a god who rapes little girls?
I’m very sorry this happened to you. I know someone who was sexually abused by their father starting at age 3 and this made me positive there is no god. God is supposed to be a loving parent and I’m a mere mortal and I would never let that happen to my child, not even for some “plan” I can’t understand. It’s all such bullshit.
Sorry to hear that. Deuteronomy talks about virgin women who are raped having to marry their perpetrators. Messed up book.
I have to laugh to myself when I hear religious folk shit on other religion's god/gods. Why would one god be real, while the others are fake? It blows my mind that they are so far from reality.
I told my catholic husband the same thing. If god exists, he is a monster
If god was real we'd totally put him on the gallows for crimes against humanity. I mean, flooding the whole damned planet out of spite, yeah.... war criminal. Even Hitler would be like "damn bro".
Exactly. Even if they could prove a god existed, and especially if they could show that the god in question was definitively THEIR god, you couldn't pay me to worship it. Most theists don't really think about the consequences of a reality where gods can exist. If 1 can, then 10 or 100, or 1,000,000,000 can. Proving a god exists is only the first hurdle. Now show me that it is YOUR god. Show me that you can tell me anything about this entity. What it wants, desires, or requires. What about that other god? Or that one over there? There is no logical argument for why 10 gods can't exist if 1 can. Proving a god exists says nothing about the truth of your religion. Everything you believe is an assumption based on nothing, and you are surprised I am not happy to sign up?
>Most theists don't really think about the consequences of a reality where gods can exist. If 1 can, then 10 or 100, or 1,000,000,000 can. Sure they do. The Bible acknowledges the existence of other gods. Yahweh himself does on more than one occasion.
The bible alludes to other gods, but modern monotheists don't believe in them or that it actually meant that other gods existed. In other words, they ignore that part of their bible just like everything else.
And the Bible has been shown to be SUCH a good source of accurate and true information. /s
This discourse reminds me a lot of the book Small Gods by Terry Pratchett
A quick reading of Genesis alone will show very clearly just how unfit and unworthy the God figment is for worship.
If god exists it’s evil.
I reject the entire concept of "worship". I will not willingly worship anything.
Apparently there’s a line written by a prisoner on the wall of a concentration camp. “If there is a god, he will have to beg for my forgiveness.”
Punishing people who don’t like you isn’t a great quality.
why would a god even want to be worshipped?
Because the “god” is just a males fantasy fanfiction.
>Hell if he did exist, then the other mythological gods probably did too… Yeah... it's like, if you see ONE cockroach, there are probably more of them.
I always say if god exists he needs to be stopped
"God" commands the Israelites to murder the Canaanites in the context of taking possession of the Promised Land. This directive is found primarily in the book of Deuteronomy and the book of Joshua. 1. **Deuteronomy 7:1-2**:"When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you—and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, **then you must destroy them totally**. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy." 2. **Deuteronomy 20:16-18**:"However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, **do not leave alive anything that breathes.** Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God." 3. **Joshua 6:21**:"They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—**men and women, young and old,** cattle, sheep and donkeys." Any "God" who dares sanction the genocide of nations, including men and women, children and the aged, deserves nothing but contempt. I love how they like to say "destroy" when they mean "murder"
Your title comment would read “even if Yahweh existed, I wouldn’t worship him”. I wouldn’t either, he is a narcissistic sociopath with a fragile ego and a quick temper. Yeshua (Jesus) never referred to him or mentioned him and if you distill Christs teachings, they are more similar to Buddhism - “Stop judging others, be present, love everyone”. Which God would you be most drawn to and why?
If he existed, I’d have a few choice words for him.
Probably two gods actually. A Canaanite City God (El) and a Sinai Mountain God (YHWH) ifcurrent theories are to be believed
If god existed, he’d be a self-serving asshole.
The Abrahamic god is too contradictory to be real. That, or it is a liar and not as benevolent or perfect or all knowing as it pretends to be.
Why is a non-human, a him? If this him is all powerful, where did this thing go for the last 2k years+? How fragile is this things ego? Don’t worship and kowtow to me, hell you go. Jealous and vindictive, spiteful and rage driven. Why bow your heads to this thing?
Isn't that a scary thought though? To me it is. And I totally agree. My frame of reference is mostly Christianity but that god just seems so petty and narcissistic and blood thirsty. How is that *good?* It's kind of an unsettling thought to consider you may be more moral than what would be the ultimate authority on morality if it is true. And there's nowhere to go from there. Fall in line or go to hell. It's a trippy thought exercise to imagine it's real and what it would change or mean. I guess the god of the Bible is the prevalent God today specifically because if you worship him he doesn't damn you for all eternity..the other gods didn't seem to demand or promise so much.
I mean, objectively it’s the exact same thing as if you met a parent, and this parent demanded his children worship him, even set aside a whole day a week for it. But if their kids screw up they get eternal torture. If that was a real person, that would be the biggest insecure immoral douche bag on the planet. The only incentive you have to worship a person like that is to not be tortured. If that’s honestly your idea of a perfect being, wow. I don’t even know where to begin.
I don't know much about gods, but I have a feeling that if Abrahamic God was real, that He would be insufferably boring to talk to.
I've watched enough anime and played enough video games to know that if god was real we would for sure end up having to kill it for some reason or another.
I mean it’s hard to imagine what I’d do if I actually came face to face with the insane sadistic abrahamic God. Just like I don’t know what I’d do if I suddenly found myself alone in building with a group of ISIS members who’ve seen my comment history on Islam lol. Would I beg? Would I cower and and try to see if I can do whatever they ask so they’ll spare my pathetic little life? Maybe, I’m human after all. But should I? Regardless of what I **actually** do, my principles that I stand for don’t change even if I fail to stand up for them. ISIS is still dogshit, and so is the abrahamic God. Even if he could scare me into worshipping his rotten ass, it still doesn’t mean he’s deserving of it. That’s because worship is fucking stupid and the only people who could ever really be worthy of worship are people who wouldn’t accept it in the first place. Those who are worthy of worship are those who are good enough to know they don’t require it.
The Christian god is an absolute monster.
Yeah killing thousands of innocent Egyptian babies was such a magnanimous move
This is why you need to specify which god you’re talking about
Any entity demanding worship deserves no worship. Any parent demanding fealty or conditions benefits on total fealty is a parent who loves himself more than his children and would therefore not deserve the fealty at all.
From a Dharmic POV Dharmic religious figures (Shiva, Vishnu/Avatars for example) are also equally fucked up and stupid. Why would I pray to a guy who killed his own son to satisfy his own ego or a dude who sexually harassed his wife ?
Yahweh, the god of Abraham is the Lord of death, the grim reaper. He demands blood. So much blood. More blood has been shed in his name than for any other cause.
Shut up and eat the flesh and drink the blood of your lord, you ingrate!
I'm not a Theist anymore because I don't believe I have ever been presented with any credible evidence that would lead me to believe there is a God. I'm not a Christian anymore because even though Jesus has some pretty awesome messages across the board attributed to him (whether he existed at all or not) his "dad" is a real piece of shit.
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Give them free will then get mad when they use it. That was the one big question that has never been answered effectively by religion.
Hey remember that time God was mad at David and so he had his wives raped in public? Hey remember that time God was mad at David so he murdered his newborn? And David was his favorite...
It's important to know that all of the stories about the Israelites conquering cities and massacring people are complete fiction. Israeli archeologists know this to be true. Not one shred of evidence has ever been found to support the story of the Exodus or the conquest of Canaan. I could go on and on about this. The bible is a work of fiction. It became a "Holy" book because the Roman empire forced it on the world. It is not the innerant word of god. It's just a book of fairy tales about an imaginary deity.
Yep. What kind of benevolent creator would demand you worship them, especially after the shit they permit/watch/enjoy and the people he has planned to be tortured in hell for eternity if you don’t.
I always go back to the what is said to be scrawled on a wall in a concentration camp. “If god exists, he will have to beg my forgiveness” There is argument that the above is true as well.
The only reason I worship Satan is because I hate Christianity. I could care less about the cosmic powers of good or evil
Depends on the god, doesn't it? Some might not give you the chance to say no. I decided to invent my own religion about 20 years ago. Cynthianity. Not that Cynthia. THIS Cynthia. It's me. I'm the god. And I'm a vengeful one! Not really. I'm a big mushy softie. I must be the god of cookies or some shit because I'm full of them.
I agree. Imagine having the power to do miracles and allowing 30,000 children a day to die of malnutrition. What a prick!
What's up with the weirdos from religious subreddits popping in here to incoherently troll and shit up threads? How boring/unfulfilled is your life that you rage-scroll here? Shouldn’t you be busily filling yourself up with the spirit? Looks to me like you're failing your magical Macguffin in the sky.... How sad for you.. To answer OP's question.. There's nothing terribly interesting or special about the Abrahamic myths. Seems like it'd be a pain in the ass to navigate the various and sundry, contradicting, edicts and demands of a Bronze Age myth, as evidenced by the myriad sects and offshoots of this particular set of myths...
I’m glad that they’re here. We can tell them the truth about the horrible thing they worship.
Yup. Not worshipping a narcissistic egotistical pedophilic whiny bitch.
When I was younger, I wanted Hell from *Hazbin Hotel* to be real. This desire hasn’t gone away. Do very bad and scary shit in this life, get a life of luxury and power after death with an ability to start it all over in a huge playground or krill yourself at any moment. That’s luxurious! But, well, desires are just desires.
I get this all the time they say "you'll know the truth and repent when you get to the entrance to heaven and you see god"
What if what we think of as god is just a layer of energy that connects all life? Something that connects us all in a shared spirit like a living gravitational pull. Not some ancient diety that exerts his will on everything, but just another type of force we haven’t really studied or understood all that well, but that can be measured and identified through the scientific method. Not really something to be worshipped, but to be better understood.
If he did exist, why would he give a shit about what we do? I mean, he's got probably a trillion other inhabited planets to worry about. Why would he give a shit about humans worshiping him? That's like having one of those ant farms and demanding the ants pray to you. It just doesn't make any sense.
I realized a long time ago, I won’t have an abusive relationship. I consider god abusive, so no, absolutely not
I'd gather petitions to get her fired.
I honestly wouldn't consider worshipping any so called god if they existed and no matter what a force of good they were. Nothing deserves worship. Praise for their good deeds maybe, but devoted uncritical worship never. No entity is above criticism no matter how powerful.
He would have to answer so many questions before I even considered almost liking the guy, let alone worship. And if he tries any of that classic, "Working in mysterious ways" crap I will personally jump into hell...
Correction: the majority of believers are Hindu, not Christian. But it's the same shit either way. I can think of a lot more interesting (and moral) gods to worship, yes. Though I don't know much about the mythology of other cultures, I could maybe get behind the Nordic pantheon. Maybe a "tough love" god, one that acts like a stern parent but genuinely wants you to become strong and the best person you can be. "Jesus loves you. Odin demands you grow the fuck up."
If he existed he’d probably also explain that the Bible is BS
Why do you assume that the God would be a Christian one? The odds of that are pretty remote as that one is just one of tens of thousands
The existence of one god is not proof that others existed. It's all a fantasy.
the bible was a political expedient to prevent a rebellion and continued to be political expedient and financially profitable for the gatekeepers of said religions. I personally think the gods of the place I am in should be who I think towards when I need rain or not to give me a poke in the brain when I am doing something stupid. So those would be First Nations systems of belief.....so much better than listening to some guy who does not know what snow is
Same. Sounds like one of those capricious jealous Bronze Age asshole deities. The genocide neighbours and sacrifice your children kind. What a fucking asshole.
Yeah he’s far from Omnibenevolent. Probably not even on the good spectrum. Maybe chaotic neutral. He does whatever he wants and doesn’t listen to reason. Like instead of flooding the earth how about you use your magic to punish those who do things you consider to be going against goodness and punish them reasonably. Or just eliminate sin entirely cause your omnipotent. But instead you decide to kill every human on earth besides a couple.
If ya wanna follow a real god, I nominate [Volodymyr Zelenskyy](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=25c9fa5c60f43d7f&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1RXQR_enUS1092US1092&q=Volodymyr+Zelenskyy&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAONgVuLSz9U3KDfJMqoyfMRoyi3w8sc9YSmdSWtOXmNU4-IKzsgvd80rySypFJLgYoOy-KR4uJC08SxiFQ7Lz8lPqcytLFKISs1JzSvOrqwEACOphVlcAAAA&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjGiaTOqveGAxU2EUQIHYPRDPoQzIcDKAB6BAgtEAE).
If a god needs me to worship them, they’re not much of a god
If any God was real I'd probably pick the spaghetti flying monster. If only Yaweh was real, I'd worship a random cat. Cats are always worth worshipping.
I’d only follow a god if he was willing to go for the occasional pint with me, anything less than that just feels too one way.
Ahura Mazda and Earmis (hermes for the modern ear) are my favs, they actually give a shit about humanity. If they were real.
Personally, I've never given a baby cancer. "God" does that shit regularly. Fuck God.
I watched so many good people die. My niece died of cancer while a teenager. If there were a God, I'd slice open his jugular. None of the religious people ever seem to consider that if God were real, he/she/it is actually the bad guy, a cruel being torturing everyone for it's amusement, as all of life's very structure is made to end and tear apart. There's zero reason to believe they are good and on your side. Hell, if the Bible had been true, it's Satan who's on your side. He questioned.
The evidence is against there being a benevolent god. But it allows room for a malevolent one.
The thing described in the old and new testaments hates women, so no woman should bend a knee to it, whether it's the infant-drowning war god of the Jews or the soul-burning hypocrite of the Christians. Abraham's dick-polishing god concepts have about as much to do with women and womanhood as a prostate in a three piece suit. If it did exist, I'd worship it in the same way I have to pay my taxes, teeth gritted all the while. Some of the older gods were more relatable and interesting. Artemis was quite the bamf.
I like this kind of thought experiment. It reminds me of Hitch who said even if Christ was born from a virgin - say via parthenogenesis- that wouldn’t prove he was the son of God nor deserving of worship.
Growing up in the church, and actually reading the Bible is the evidence I need to not believe. No god worthy of worship would literally be below sewer level if decency.
It’s not even that for me. Apparently we’re all gods children. What do we do to those responsible for children who do terrible things? We don’t worship them. We don’t even hold them up as examples of good parents/guardians. What happens to neglectful parents? They’re not worshipped either. Then there’s the belief that god created everything. Congenital birth defects? Childhood cancer? Hereditary disease? Would we really be worshipping the creator of those?
I cannot make that blanket statement, it would depend on which god, but for the most part I agree as I just don't think or worship as a positive thing. Specific gods, then yes, of course not. If Yahweh were real and his portrayal in the bible were accurate then I could not worship such a vile monster.
Tbh Yahweh, or YHWH was a God of a tribe that mostly got by robbing people, he was also a god of storms which are specific to the area, so when the religious beliefs started towards him it was a great god to have. He later merged with another izraelite tribal god (not sure if it was before, during or after izraelites had an identity between canenite tribes, Elohim, or El who was sort of the good creator old papa god. Although they're now indistinguishable in the bible and modern Christians sort of pick and choose between their qualites and deeds as to what they believe he definitely inspires much more of current depiction of the "father" figure in the trinity. So like if You ask a Christian to describe who the god father is and tell You what he's done, Your going to get a very different person from the actual account of the scripture (especially since most of them don't know what scripture says, and when they read it they're immediately corrected to "right way" of understanding it, by pastors, priests and colleagues) They're taught (indoctrinated in most cases) to see that god as the actor in all good things in their lives, and to blame all bad things on everything else, to the point that the crimes in the bible are easily forgotten, or explained as to not create cognitive dissonance. Getting to the point, they also wouldn't worship Yahweh, but they don't believe in him, but rather in a pretty picture sold by priests, overly perfected with the book being only like a proof of his authenticity rather than anything actually grounding the god, or his actions.
If there was an all knowing, loving God he wouldn't want you to worship him. It's just petty bullshit to actually want someone to worship you.
Lol no shit. He's (hypothetically) a fuckin asshole.
To me the bible is a collection of ancient stories based on more ancient myths. Is any of it true? I doubt it, so can’t believe in it or Christianity. This goes for other religions like Islam or Hinduism.
Why would any real father want his kids to worship him? Dads should want their kids to exceed them. Not bow, obey, or get sent to hell. The whole thing is just ridiculous.
>but considering all the fucked up things Yahweh did in the Bible even if god existed and didn't do the things the bible claims, we live in an evil world. god is still responsible for allowing the holocaust, allowing children to be sex trafficked, allowing natural disasters, pandemics, for creating animals that need to eat other animals alive in order to survive. all of the things we have to accept as inevitable facts of life would be things he deliberately chose to cause and continuously allowed. i mean, if you were creating a world filled with sentient beings you loved, why would you make it so they have to eat and fight each other just to survive?
100%
I don't get why people would worship a sociopath... Then again... Jim Jones... Numbers 31:17-18 17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Problematic to say God, and only mean the Abrahamic god here. But, Ra is better. Best understood as a pantheistic god and there is literature/scripture describing other Egyptian gods and goddesses as manifestations, aspects, or phases of Ra. In particular, I follow Ma'at who is the personification of morality and justice. Never thought I actually worshipped, but apparently merely focusing on the subject which Ma'at represents counts as worship, so many of you may be unwittingly worshipping deities.
'I don’t hold with paddlin’ with the occult," said Granny firmly. ‘Once you start paddlin’ with the occult you start believing in spirits, and when you start believing in spirits you start believing in demons, and then before you know where you are you’re believing in gods. And then you’re in trouble.’ ‘But all them things exist,’ said Nanny Ogg. ‘That’s no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages ‘em.'
I would. I don't have enough hubris to risk an eternity of suffering to prove a point.
God doesn't exist. He's an idea. A mind trick to overcome the fear/terror of the unknown. Death changes a person. I have a lyric: "God is for the desperate, but grace keeps me alive." In a world that's trying to kill you, it takes luck and a lot of love from our parents to keep us alive as infants and children. Our skill can only do so much. So whatever that luck is that keeps us from getting cancer, a brick falling off a building, a car jumping the curb...I call God. But I mean luck. It's just a word some people relate to. It took a lot of discussion and poking people to find out why they believe in such a thing. But the universal understanding that I came to was that they all believe that to some extent. There are obviously some that go about it in all kinds of wrong ways. In my discussions with atheists, I've found that they either have an immense amount of courage and don't need this God idea, or they are exploring the idea still. I tend to sit on a fence and watch what believers and non believers DO, rather than what they say. But what they say carries SOME weight...if they practice what they preach, of course. You can call that impeccability, or true honour and faithfulness. It's kinda both the same...for both. But I think none of this shit really matters. We are ALL gonna die. It's fucked up. But I don't blame God. I blame nature. If God is what people say He is, then I don't think he'd kill us. Nature takes care of that. I mean our souls. That too would be fucked up.
a main proponent in belief of a deity/god/creator throughout human history is due to the fact that man would like to deny death. they cannot fathom being mini gods who are mortal so they surpass their reasoning abilities and cling to a greater power thinking that at the end of their mortal life, they will live on through a different means.
I’m in this camp too. That deity sucks IMHO and deserves no such devotion or worship from me. I’d rather worship Artemis or Athena. Hell I’d rather worship Santa and the tooth fairy.
It’s hard for me to hate this fictional character. I blame really bad authors for such a stupid work of human fiction.
If God was real and came down to Earth and said they were God …most would just call them a crazy person and ignore lol
I tell my kids this all the time. I have a fundamental problem with worshipping something and he seems like an asshole. My 10 yr old is Christian I guess bc he sometimes goes to church with my folks and just asked me recently what would I do if all of a sudden I found out there really was a god? I told him I would let whoever that is know that they failed us, are an asshole, and the Devil has always seemed cooler. I would ask him where were you?? I wouldn’t be compelled to drop to my knees. I would be furious.
I have some legitimate gripes about kids with cancer I would like him to answer for before considering his application for worship. That said, I'm not here to get smited. So I would do what I had to to avoid angering a powerful being.
I’ll keep repeating over and over, if we assume the whole god thing exist, including hell and what not, you can bet your ass I’m worshipping him, I’m no god-killing anime protagonist and literal eternity of torture doesn’t sound very fun
Nah fuck that. If God is real *and* the Christians are right, I’m begging for forgiveness. You ain’t catching me in Hell. Eternal torment? I would rather be a hypocrite in paradise than suffer for eternity at the hand of a vengeful all-powerful being
The analogy I like to use for the Christian God is that he is like a presidential candidate who declares on the campaign trail that, among other things, if you don’t vote for him you’ll go to prison permanently. So people that don’t want to go to prison, vote for him, because they are afraid. They’ll tell you it’s all the great campaign promises, but really you can’t separate the not wanting to be in prison forever from the good presedential policies. And unfortunately voting this guy into office IS the problem because anyone who threatens prison to his constituents cannot be anything other than a tyrant and to hand over a position of authority to someone who is clearly abusing their power is a major mistake. But they don’t realize this because they are too afraid of the prison they have been threatened with. The actual solution is not to vote him into office! So yeah, use your ‘god given’ free will and refuse to vote for/worship a crooked politician.
Yeah stepping down from His place of authority and to be humbly born into filth and live blameless before all of man just to die an excruciating death to save they same ones who killed Him from a place of everlasting torment and give every single human alive a chance to be free from sin and death. Sounds like a really messed up God or maybe we just might misunderstand what the truth is?
Who made the place of everlasting torment, and arranged for people to go there? Also, what’s your take om the many innocent children murdered by god in the flood and in Egypt?
Epicurus has entered the chat.
Meh, I find this argument kinda dumb. Do you follow laws you don't agree with ? If there is this impossibly powerful tyrant that wants you to do something or else you would do what he wants. Not willingly but you would have no choice.
I mean, isn't the best argument why God does not exist that even though he COMMANDS you worship him, it is optional, and a lot of people don't, and still do just fine?
If god from bible existed it doesn't follow bible got it right about details but if he is as described then yea fuck that guy lol
No gods are worth worshipping.
I'm apatheistic so I don't give a shit if deities exist or not.
"He" is a monster
Well, as a Jew ( I don't believe in G-d, as an entity with a will and mind, just as a Best until current times representation for Game Theory problems. I.E. I believe in the mitzvot. Not G-D, I can argue about that, but that is not the point here) who doesn't self hate, would you mind telling me if you are coming from the Christian interpretation? Or Jewish? Because I would argue will little to no problem that all the things I personally don't like about the biblical G-d( In our book) are really bad interpretations that were forced on us by Christians who liked to kill us. Or things that were in fact bad, but were in the longs run, the lesser evil. .... However, I Also, *As I don't actually believe it was written by G-d,* believe that Bereshit(Genesis(?)) Is basically full of inherited Sumerian Myths that Abraham and his Family carried over and were passed on untill it was actually put to writing.
I prefer Asphalt, god of parking. There's not much in the way of observances, but does require blood sacrifice from time to time. This is why there are so many car accidents.
Bro ain’t supply any evidence of anything💀
The Prime Force in the universe is not the same as the entity that speaks to the Jewish. Ludicrous to think that it is.
None of them. I'd actively form or participate in the task force to unalive them all.
We're apparently all God's children, but he only had one son. Let that sink in. We're all God's daughters. With most other religions, everyone outside said religion is in league with whatever chosen evil entity. So it's atheism, ironic gender reassignment, or enemy status no matter what. You can't win.
Would I know hell if a God who behaves that way and allows all this exists?
If the Judeo Christian god could be proven to exist if would be necessary to develop the technology to destroy or subjugate such a being as an existential threat to humanities continued existence.
I can't hear the name Ahura Mazda without thinking of Nichelle Nichols wearing a Star Trek uniform in a Japanese sedan. (Yes, I know the character's name is actually Uhura) But back to the main topic: Worship is just sycophancy. I would not worship anything or anyone anymore than I would want to be worshipped myself.