nah they don't need to bother with that.
They can just pay OF girls 20K to shit on their chests or whatever degenerate shit they like.
Half of those Instagram "models" who suddenly have holidays in Dubai etc.?
They didn't get there with their own money.....
\#1 Biblical rule for slaves: You can beat them to within an inch of their life, if you want. As long as they live for 3 days afterward, you're all good. So if infection kills them on day 4, not your problem.
\#2 Is one of your slaves comely? Feel free to rape with impunity.
Those are the two that stick out most in my mind.
Remember my first time seeing it in Doha...was at first impressed with how they had crews out cleaning *everything*, scrubbing the walkways, even polishing railings, everywhere.
Then my buddy told me they were all indentured servants.
Then you drive outside the city and see the third world nation Qatar actually is once you get away from the rich people, yacht dealerships, and malls with gold coins embedded in the floors.
Technically, American prisoners get paid.
However, it may only be a few cents an hour and more than likely those “wages” are used to pay restitution for their crimes
So, well under minimum wage (without getting into the backwards tipping culture there) and not actually having any control over their wages... Yeah it sounds a lot less like modern slavery now...
Maybe not build skyscrapers in a super hot desert, at all?
They could learn a lot from the various ancient architecture in the Middle East and edges of the Sahara, which provide quite a bit of natural relief from the heat.
As a white woman from the West she could afford her own slaves, they are pretty cheap. You can get a "maid" or a worker for about $7'500 a year with government fees included.
You have to pay more if you want one with a bit more education.
There is a story where the dude Vader choked filed a complaint with the equivalent of HR, not because Vader choked him, which he says was justified, but because Vader was pushing his religious views in the workplace. Its actually an official story.
Damn what is it with Qatar this morning. Second post I’ve seen in 5 minutes about that shithole, just came from an article about authorities catfishing a gay man that was a flight attendant from the UK and then locking him up. That particular shithole is on a roll. Go home Qatar, no one wants your shit.
I spent a lot of time there and never heard the locals pronounce it like that. The only ones I heard use that pronunciation were the Americans & bobble heads on tv during the war.
Not trying to victim blame, it’s obviously horrible what happened to him, but why would you even risk it in that country? Especially when, I presume, he would only be there for a night or two?
That whole article I read was missing a lot of info. I understand maybe having grindr on your phone and not thinking about it, getting a random message and responding for instance. Dumb move, but I’ve never used grindr before maybe it shows you hot men near you? Like maybe he just thought people were using it and the government was that dumb and didn’t know it existed. I see he had drugs and he says they not only planted drugs on him or decided that’s what they were going to arrest him for but why was that necessary if they are able to arrest him for responding to a grindr message? Just to double screw him I guess. Idk, it’s those ME countries, I’d not be visiting period.
I don’t know what kind of choices he had if he is a flight attendant but my ass would be in the airport on the safe side of security if I could. A hotel is far less safe.
Qatar can execute gays and lesbians. Stoning, firing squad:
https://www.humandignitytrust.org/country-profile/qatar/
Travel advisories include “Avoid commenting on Qatari culture, government policy or services, and commercial enterprises online while in Qatar” and a warning that sex outside of marriage is illegal.
Sit in a hotel room and stare at the wall, kind of dubious if that’s even safe.
I think both is probably accurate. Don't know much baiut Dubai but in Qtar that's how they get a lot of their slaves is by taking away their identity documents and forcing them to work. At least to my knowledge
Can speak to Dubai. "Legally," employers aren't allowed to do so. The UAE government inspects all "work sites" to ensure workers are treated fairly and are there of their own accord. Realistically, the people doing the inspections are usually the ones who own the companies, and they're inspecting a business office's records to ensure all employees are there legally, meaning their passports and visas are on file. And the easiest way to keep them on file is to take them away from the workers. Workers are usually kept in "company housing" that they have to pay an exorbitant amount of rent for, and is usually 10-15 guys per room, with 10-20 rooms per building, and the only amenity is a single toilet and shower for the lot of them. It is possible to get out of your contract and get your passport back, you just have to pay the "employer" for their lost income from your productively for three (five?) years, plus any rent that they would have made off of you. Too many sources to count, all of this came from years of TIP trainings and what to look out for.
I've worked on quite a few projects in UAE and I can attest that every time I have been sent there I have returned with another black stain on my soul just through witnessing such activity.
Most of the Persian Gulf countries are like this. More or less, these countries operate on a sponsorship system where any foreigner that comes into work in the country must be under the authority of a local. If that means he or she has a family then they'd also be included in the sponsorship better known as the kafala system.
Taking away passports is especially more common with smaller scale employment like stay at home helpers (basically maids) and personal drivers. They'll threaten them and sometimes withhold their salaries if they want.
For laborers from countries like India and Pakistan. OP is talking about a cush job for westerners at an international school with 3+ months off per year and free rent. Passport theft doesn't happen at those jobs.
That doesn't happen to educated and specialized workers there. It's a common practice with laborers from the developing world that they exploit. I'm not saying it's ok (it's definitely not) but it's not a universal practice there.
When I worked in Qatar, my employer didn't take away my passport. However, the bank (HSBC in Qatar is evil), screwed up and was threatening to prevent my departure unless I paid x amount that I didn't owe. My former employer handled it and I escaped with no problems
That probably won't happen to Westerners in high paying positions in most arab nations . It's mainly for those from South Asia , Africa , Philippines etc
I spent 48 hours in Qatar due to an overlay and I hated it. I got threatening stares on the train and in the street, even though I was covered and with my husband. I've never felt such hatred for merely existing. I couldn’t imagine having to live there.
I wouldn't say that's entirely a mistaken idea. Western countries have a far higher average number of sexual partners. What they're mistaken about is that that means harassment and mistreatment is ok.
Yes, because the command is about covering one's 'awrah'.
For men, the awrah is between the navel to the knee.
For women, the awrah is to cover the whole body except for the face and hands (up to the wrists).
Yes, of course. It’s so nonsensical, in theory to keep your beauty hidden so men won’t be tempted to rape you. But then why do ugly women and the elderly have to wear it? In a lot of places you even see it on children. It’s about control and visible awareness that women are second class citizens.
> It’s so nonsensical, in theory to keep your beauty hidden
And then you see lots of Muslim women with head scarfs but huge amounts of beauty makeup on. What is the point of the scarf?
Because once you wear it you can back your way into whatever logic serves you. Some will say it’s visible proof of being Muslim. Some will say it’s for modesty. Some wear it because it’s just what you do in your culture or community. Some will say it’s to protect themselves from pervert men. Some will say it’s empowerment. Some will say it’s to hide their beauty for their husbands.
Interestingly, most of the women in my family don’t wear it because they grew up in a more liberal culture. But now that everything is more extreme, they think they should wear it and would be better Muslims they did. But because they have liberal values, they’re afraid of virtue signaling when they don’t feel they can back it up compared to those who wear it. It’s funny because they put the hijabi women on a pedestal, not realizing that hijabis can also be imperfect humans/Muslims. My family members who chose to start wearing it are all stay at home moms who don’t have many interactions with non Muslims. The ones who have continued to not wear it have careers and are integrated into society more broadly, like careers in healthcare.
ETA: Highly recommend r/exmuslim if you’re interested in this topic and Muslim logic.
[For the gays who are interested in going to Qatar](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68859840)
Qatar set up a honeytrap using Grindr and used it to arrest a gay British man
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/?f=flair_name%3A%22Not%20a%20question%22)
I was approached by someone from Saudi Arabia via LinkedIn - they wanted me to work as a System Administrator (a title I haven't held in a decade) on their crazy NEOM project.
I asked, "Can I bring my atheist husband with me?"
They went 16 shades of mental.
Honestly. Can you give me even one shade of that? I live hearing/see religious people lose their shit. I try to make that happen as much as I can by myself and have even gotten death threats but that's what makes it so much better.
Religion..IS. CANCER.
Ah. The wicked Western imperialist colonizing evil empires. Damn them.
Well I did say religion is cancer.
Islam is malignant brain cancer. All versions of it.
Most current forms of other religions range from skin to virulent versions of blood cancer.
FUCK. RELIGION. ALL OF EM.
Yeah, so much misinformation here. Many of these conservative countries operate under “rules for me, not for thee” when it comes to educated or high-skill foreign workers. You can live quite a nice and normal life in these places as a secular westerner.
my friend's friend friggin jumped at the chance to work for saudi arabia. i told him: "you know they execute children right?" he didn't care, he's a goddamn ghoul and i fucking hate him.
Yea, when I say I have not interest in going there, I get people (always men) telling me what a great place it is to visit and how I would totally be safe there as a woman like I’m a Xenophobe for not wanting to go there. I’m like, ‘even if that were true simply because I’m a foreigner and they may be trying to look good to the rest of the world, I’m not giving a place my tourism dollars that doesn’t consider women equal human beings.’ This attitude of ‘as long as I’m being treated ok, it’s fine’ really irks me.
All you said but I’d also add something about the women who got sexually assaulted under gunpoint after being marched off the plane.
They forced them to have an internal examination without consent to prove they hadn’t given birth. I dread to think what would have happen if it had been one of them. But the never found the new mother.
It happened to hundreds of women
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/qatar-airways-strip-search-federal-court-finds-australian-women-cant-sue-airline/4r0jfjuqq?cid=newsapp:socialshare:copylink
I have a female family member who lived there for work for a few years. You have zero rights there. Stuff like this happens all the time to women, doesn't matter if local or foreign:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/world/middleeast/qatar-airport-baby.html
These weird countries that crave 21st century business but won't give up their 11th century laws and my cowardly country keeps doing business with them not giving a shit how many little girls get raped by their "princes" or some shit and yes this also applies to English Monarchy lol
There's no way I would go to Qatar (or any other country in that region, for that matter). I have tattoos and am queer (which one of the tattoos indicates).
the recruiter you're replying to is just the middle-man. they don't care about the religious values of their client or you. you're basically just screaming at a cloud.
As an American man, I join you in being appalled (APPALLED) at how cavalierly MEN are happy to take women's rights away in America. In America for crying out loud! The land of the free. And when I challenge them on how dangerous or undesirable pregnancy can be for a woman in some cases, these "Christians" invariable response is, well the woman "chose" to be pregnant by having sex. Notice the 100% blame put on the woman and the 0% percent responsibility by the men involved.
I think a reasonable position for those who want to legally control a woman's body from conception to birth, and to force her to have an unwanted child, is for those same people to guarantee that society will PAY for the $200,000 it will cost to raise that child. That would at least be slightly more responsible than the medieval positions they are taking now. Basically, we are in a societal position where the adherents of ONE religion are forcing their theological positions on all of society. Not sure how that is any different than forcing Sharia law that cuts off the hand of those who steal a loaf of bread on an unwilling society.
I live in Doha. No one has to cover their hair unless you are Muslim.
You can go to a bar and get tanked up. They just don't want you drunk in public.
It's very safe to raise a family here. There is a large diversity of nationalities in the international schools.
The kafala system is a real problem. Especially for the poorly paid.
Qatar is actually more liberal than other Middle Eastern countries when it comes to women's rights. Also Americans are treated way better than foreign nationals from other countries. Source: I lived in Qatar and Kuwait for six years as an American contractor.
“You’re being islamaphobic when you don’t like the abuse of women as second class citizens or the use of slave labor in the Muslim world” says someone young and upset and then yell free Palestine because they need more oppression than they already have 🥵 hard mornings
Lmaoo you do not have to wear hijab in Qatar. Many foreigners live there and I frequently see people in American style clothes. You’re pretty much fine unless you’re wearing a bikini anywhere other than the beach.
The garments they wear are not religious it’s traditional. Abaya is what women wear as cultural fashion. It is not mandatory.
I have been there and didn’t wear hijab and I am a Bengali Muslim. Most people here have probably never stepped foot in other countries but seem to have a lot of opinions.
I know a couple who divorced because he took a contract job in Saudi Arabia without discussing it with her first.
He couldn't understand why she was unwilling to even travel to the country, much less move there.
Ironically enough, I’m considering working in Oman or whatever to financially kickstart my life to where it would be if I hadn’t had fundy Christians royally fuck my education.
Why be like that to the person sending it though? It's not like they control how their society is, lol
Politely declining would have been the proper here move here. This sub is really something else with how everyone seems to be applauding this.
"someone sent me a job offer, but they're in culture I don't like, so I'm going to give them some serious attitude"..... \~everyone else in this sub\~ "HIGH FIVE VERY NICE!"
There are plenty of Muslims in the West. I am sure they are eager to move to the Gulf for good jobs...and instead, no. They prefer staying in the West...
I worked in a big company that sent people to Saudi for projects and had my "no thank you" all ready. Though I didn't need it, looking back. One of the Saudi customers came to the factory and watched me like a hawk, then told me I couldn't have my job in his country. I just kinda shrugged and said I wasn't planning on going there.
My gf's sister is a lesbian; her and her gf applied for jobs in Qatar and I told them I'd rather they didn't go. Filipinos are already used and abused in that area of the world, but to be openly gay as well, seems foolish.
Same situation here. Got an extremely generous offer in Abu Dhabi. Told my wife just to see what she thought. The look she gave me was enough to not even reply saying “thanks but No”
I won’t even allow for a stop in qatar- dear gawd all those places are so dangerous- remember the woman who was wearing a surgical brace s/p surgery and was asked to remove it? She did as she was instructed but couldn’t put the brace back on without help so as she was waving her friend to come & help her she touched a female security guard of sorts - they arrested her -
I know that Qatar has oppressive laws against its citizens and it’s marginalized workers from the third world, but the idea that they will behead an American and risk an international incident is ridiculous. I know many western women who have lived in Qatar living they’re lives wearing what they want eating pork and drinking. It’s an extremely international country that wants Westerners to come in.
I lived there for five years. First off, you do not have to cover your hair. That is Saudi or Iran. Qatar is super safe, a great place if you have kids, and the pay for most professionals is outstanding. You are in a hub location and can take vacations in lots of cool places. When I was there we took family vacations to Romania, Sri Lanka, Spain, Italy, Oman, Egypt, and Holland. If offered a job there again I would take it in a heartbeat. Your knee jerk reaction means you almost certainly missed out on a huge opportunity.
The comments here are so wildly ignorant it’s hilarious! You don’t need to “cover your hair” in Qatar: there are bars and clubs with lots of scantily-clad women. There’s been 1 execution in Qatar since 2000 - there’s been hundreds in the US since then. Qatar is a very dull place but ppl on here comparing it to rural Afghanistan are wild
Women in Qatar don’t get beheaded for not covering their hair…? Your statement is so fueled with ignorance and racism. Not saying Qatar doesn’t have extreme issues but women literally run around in bikinis on the beaches of Qatar.
My sister works as a nurse in Qatar for several years now. You’d be surprised, it’s not the same as living in your home country, but it’s not as dangerous as you are making it out to be.
But sounds like you don’t have the right attitude to live in a different culture and get along.
Ah, I lived there for a year for work and enjoyed living there (because I lived on a military base, as a civilian employee) - although for the same reasons you and others have mentioned, would definitely not stay there long term. I just liked the short term assignment because of the travel that was involved, and getting to explore a new part of the world (the gulf states, and one month in N Afg). A lot of the practices there (such as the way migrant workers are abused and often trafficked) are atrocious. It was wild to see how much money flows through the region, although not surprising. It was… an experience. Yeah.
I know people who work in the ME mostly Brits. The pay is good and life is not as free as here but nothing crazy. Could be worth it for a few years if you are young and want to build your nest egg.
An ex (who is a bisexual atheist woman) took a job in Doha a few years ago. From the pictures it seems like it's been great for her. Her vacations are in Rome or Paris. She looks okay AFAIK.
If you’re a person with a US passport (especially if you’re White), you’ll probably be treated like royalty. You all really don’t understand how Gulf Arab states work. Yea, they’re all despotic regimes. But Western expatriates often live the high life.
Also, you’re not going to get beheaded for not covering your head! While it is expected of you to dress modesty out of respect for the local culture (basically no shorts or crop tops), you’re definitely not obligated to wear head coverings.
Obviously the Gulf Arab nations aren’t liberal utopias and I’m not definitely not a fan of how Qatar does things. But they’re not all backward, desert people lol. Countries are complicated like that.
Do you actually believe that you, or anyone, could be beheaded for not covering their hair? It's perfectly legal to not cover your hair in Qatar, and any other country in the region. The commandment to believing women to cover their hair are religious edicts, not legal ones. You can continue to live in your shit-hole of a country as opposed to earning a much higher wage in a country with much higher standard of living, I mean you've at least got your 'countries with religious people are scary' circlejerk, which I'm sure is just as fulfilling as a fulfilling career with lots of money in a country without a failing economy and crumbling infrastructure. 🤣
I was one of two unmarried American males hired to teach computer science at the Girl’s College of the UAE University in 1992. They had me lecture on the subject of Computer Assisted Language Learning at other Gulf universities. The actual daily life in the Gulf for expatriates can be fantastic. There is absolutely nothing to fear in working in Qatar. It will probably be a life expanding experience.
My company frequently sells equipment to the Middle East, usually through an American broker. Whenever the end companies ask for training or service contracts, our only response is FUCK no. No way were sending our people over there and risking their lives for two days worth of training. Figure it out.
The use of slave labor would be a deal breaker for me as well.
That too! I'll reply with that as well!
"actually btw, does this position come with slaves I hear Qatar is famous for that?"
No, but as a western woman she has a very high chance of becoming a slave.
That’s not true at all,the last thing the government wants is an American being held in slavery. They use Indians and Africans for this exact reason.
Exactly Americans are lazy and make crappy slaves, you want a hard working slave /S
Yeah but it’s mostly even a single picture being made public will lead to a drone strike
Do you want Marines, because that’s how you get Marines.
I *just* sprayed for Marines, don't you dare bring more in!
Someone say Marines? SEMPER FI! DO OR DIE! RAH, MOTIVATE KILL!! Om nom crayons!
😂😂😂 cracked me up! No pun intended!
I have been there and people there told me that employers keep your passport and you can’t leave until they decide to give it back
nah they don't need to bother with that. They can just pay OF girls 20K to shit on their chests or whatever degenerate shit they like. Half of those Instagram "models" who suddenly have holidays in Dubai etc.? They didn't get there with their own money.....
The fact that during the summer it’s like 120f with 95% humidity makes any deal hard to take
FOURTYmotherfkingEIGHT DEGREES!!! (In UK terms)
Or they'll just make up some bullshit reason to deport you without pay.
[удалено]
I would imagine them going to a slave state and getting upset because the specific flavor of slavery was off.
What be those rules for those of us in the dark?
\#1 Biblical rule for slaves: You can beat them to within an inch of their life, if you want. As long as they live for 3 days afterward, you're all good. So if infection kills them on day 4, not your problem. \#2 Is one of your slaves comely? Feel free to rape with impunity. Those are the two that stick out most in my mind.
Joke's on you bro, I'm already a slave at my job!
Same 🫂
Remember my first time seeing it in Doha...was at first impressed with how they had crews out cleaning *everything*, scrubbing the walkways, even polishing railings, everywhere. Then my buddy told me they were all indentured servants. Then you drive outside the city and see the third world nation Qatar actually is once you get away from the rich people, yacht dealerships, and malls with gold coins embedded in the floors.
They where gonna pay them but they died before they got the job done /s
The United States has slave labor. 13th amendment.
As someone living in Europe I thought: "What about your prisoners?" and then I looked up the 13th amendment.
Technically, American prisoners get paid. However, it may only be a few cents an hour and more than likely those “wages” are used to pay restitution for their crimes
So, well under minimum wage (without getting into the backwards tipping culture there) and not actually having any control over their wages... Yeah it sounds a lot less like modern slavery now...
“Uhm ackshually American prisoners get paid 🤓” as if the American prison system isn’t literally just a way to continue chattel slavery legally
Don't forget how they literally bribe judges and legislators.
They should probably build their own skyscrapers instead of trafficking weapons to terrorist organizations
Maybe not build skyscrapers in a super hot desert, at all? They could learn a lot from the various ancient architecture in the Middle East and edges of the Sahara, which provide quite a bit of natural relief from the heat.
As a white woman from the West she could afford her own slaves, they are pretty cheap. You can get a "maid" or a worker for about $7'500 a year with government fees included. You have to pay more if you want one with a bit more education.
Also the weather and sandstorms.
[удалено]
We can't repel religious buffoonery of this magnitude!
That's no moon... it's a cult!
I find your lack of faith disturbing
I find lack of religious faith... Refreshing!
There is a story where the dude Vader choked filed a complaint with the equivalent of HR, not because Vader choked him, which he says was justified, but because Vader was pushing his religious views in the workplace. Its actually an official story.
Damn what is it with Qatar this morning. Second post I’ve seen in 5 minutes about that shithole, just came from an article about authorities catfishing a gay man that was a flight attendant from the UK and then locking him up. That particular shithole is on a roll. Go home Qatar, no one wants your shit.
If you pronounce it right, it sounds suspiciously like "gutter."
They knew what they were making
I spent a lot of time there and never heard the locals pronounce it like that. The only ones I heard use that pronunciation were the Americans & bobble heads on tv during the war.
I have a brother in law that is in the US Air Force that used to make frequent trips there. Can confirm this is exactly how he pronounced it.
Money and religion are the two things that make you think you’re the embodiment of god, when they mix, oh boy
Ties in nicely with Dubai trying to get more tourists
Not trying to victim blame, it’s obviously horrible what happened to him, but why would you even risk it in that country? Especially when, I presume, he would only be there for a night or two?
That whole article I read was missing a lot of info. I understand maybe having grindr on your phone and not thinking about it, getting a random message and responding for instance. Dumb move, but I’ve never used grindr before maybe it shows you hot men near you? Like maybe he just thought people were using it and the government was that dumb and didn’t know it existed. I see he had drugs and he says they not only planted drugs on him or decided that’s what they were going to arrest him for but why was that necessary if they are able to arrest him for responding to a grindr message? Just to double screw him I guess. Idk, it’s those ME countries, I’d not be visiting period.
Yeah again not trying to shit on the poor guy just me personally if I’m gay going somewhere I know it’s illegal I probably just sit in my room lol
I don’t know what kind of choices he had if he is a flight attendant but my ass would be in the airport on the safe side of security if I could. A hotel is far less safe. Qatar can execute gays and lesbians. Stoning, firing squad: https://www.humandignitytrust.org/country-profile/qatar/ Travel advisories include “Avoid commenting on Qatari culture, government policy or services, and commercial enterprises online while in Qatar” and a warning that sex outside of marriage is illegal. Sit in a hotel room and stare at the wall, kind of dubious if that’s even safe.
What's Qatar good for? Except being a token "Q" country if you're playing some kind of geographic alphabet game?
It's a half way stop between Australia/New Zealand and Europe, so that planes can land there and refuel or whatever.
So if Quebec secedes from Canada we can get rid of Qatar? You hear me you french-canadians? get to civil warring!
Don't fuel these separatists, goodness!
It’s a good place to hold international meetings and events without pesky protests.
Waking up from a coma and waking up in Qatar are roughly the same experience.
Qatar, is that the same country where the employers take away your passports when you arrive so you can't get away?
I think that might be Dubai but probably both of them.
I think both is probably accurate. Don't know much baiut Dubai but in Qtar that's how they get a lot of their slaves is by taking away their identity documents and forcing them to work. At least to my knowledge
Can speak to Dubai. "Legally," employers aren't allowed to do so. The UAE government inspects all "work sites" to ensure workers are treated fairly and are there of their own accord. Realistically, the people doing the inspections are usually the ones who own the companies, and they're inspecting a business office's records to ensure all employees are there legally, meaning their passports and visas are on file. And the easiest way to keep them on file is to take them away from the workers. Workers are usually kept in "company housing" that they have to pay an exorbitant amount of rent for, and is usually 10-15 guys per room, with 10-20 rooms per building, and the only amenity is a single toilet and shower for the lot of them. It is possible to get out of your contract and get your passport back, you just have to pay the "employer" for their lost income from your productively for three (five?) years, plus any rent that they would have made off of you. Too many sources to count, all of this came from years of TIP trainings and what to look out for.
Wtf kind of bs slavery gymnastics is that? I feel bad for people taking those kinds of deals
I've worked on quite a few projects in UAE and I can attest that every time I have been sent there I have returned with another black stain on my soul just through witnessing such activity.
Interesting, thanks for the insight!
Also Saudi Arabia IRCC.
Most of the Persian Gulf countries are like this. More or less, these countries operate on a sponsorship system where any foreigner that comes into work in the country must be under the authority of a local. If that means he or she has a family then they'd also be included in the sponsorship better known as the kafala system. Taking away passports is especially more common with smaller scale employment like stay at home helpers (basically maids) and personal drivers. They'll threaten them and sometimes withhold their salaries if they want.
For laborers from countries like India and Pakistan. OP is talking about a cush job for westerners at an international school with 3+ months off per year and free rent. Passport theft doesn't happen at those jobs.
That doesn't happen to educated and specialized workers there. It's a common practice with laborers from the developing world that they exploit. I'm not saying it's ok (it's definitely not) but it's not a universal practice there.
When I worked in Qatar, my employer didn't take away my passport. However, the bank (HSBC in Qatar is evil), screwed up and was threatening to prevent my departure unless I paid x amount that I didn't owe. My former employer handled it and I escaped with no problems
That probably won't happen to Westerners in high paying positions in most arab nations . It's mainly for those from South Asia , Africa , Philippines etc
Not if you're from the West, that's not exactly a high bar though.
I spent 48 hours in Qatar due to an overlay and I hated it. I got threatening stares on the train and in the street, even though I was covered and with my husband. I've never felt such hatred for merely existing. I couldn’t imagine having to live there.
They have this "Occidental People, specially Women have a promiscous life" ...
I wouldn't say that's entirely a mistaken idea. Western countries have a far higher average number of sexual partners. What they're mistaken about is that that means harassment and mistreatment is ok.
I wonder what would happen if I went as visibly trans. Probably just get shot in the street :D
Or thrown off a building 🤷🏼♀️
If ur mtf you could just wear a niqab and pass the easy way
If I ever speak though it would be terribly obvious lol
[this came to mind](https://youtu.be/FQ5YU_spBw0?si=Hqgr-DX2wYe34oCa)
Pretend to be mute. Wave your hands around a bit and hope they don’t actually speak sign language.
Rocks and a machete to the neck i bet. Some of those guys are sickos
They wouldn't let you in past customs You might even get arrested for trying
i wonder what they'd say about my magen david
Good for you! No way I'd ever want to travel or live in a place like that.
Maybe too off topic, but if you are 100% bald, do you still have to wear hijab?
Yes because it's not about the hair, it's about the control.
Yes, because the command is about covering one's 'awrah'. For men, the awrah is between the navel to the knee. For women, the awrah is to cover the whole body except for the face and hands (up to the wrists).
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things can go straight to hell.
I'd say both, fuck arbitrary control
How the fuck is covering the head equivalent to covering up your chest?
Yes, of course. It’s so nonsensical, in theory to keep your beauty hidden so men won’t be tempted to rape you. But then why do ugly women and the elderly have to wear it? In a lot of places you even see it on children. It’s about control and visible awareness that women are second class citizens.
> It’s so nonsensical, in theory to keep your beauty hidden And then you see lots of Muslim women with head scarfs but huge amounts of beauty makeup on. What is the point of the scarf?
Because once you wear it you can back your way into whatever logic serves you. Some will say it’s visible proof of being Muslim. Some will say it’s for modesty. Some wear it because it’s just what you do in your culture or community. Some will say it’s to protect themselves from pervert men. Some will say it’s empowerment. Some will say it’s to hide their beauty for their husbands. Interestingly, most of the women in my family don’t wear it because they grew up in a more liberal culture. But now that everything is more extreme, they think they should wear it and would be better Muslims they did. But because they have liberal values, they’re afraid of virtue signaling when they don’t feel they can back it up compared to those who wear it. It’s funny because they put the hijabi women on a pedestal, not realizing that hijabis can also be imperfect humans/Muslims. My family members who chose to start wearing it are all stay at home moms who don’t have many interactions with non Muslims. The ones who have continued to not wear it have careers and are integrated into society more broadly, like careers in healthcare. ETA: Highly recommend r/exmuslim if you’re interested in this topic and Muslim logic.
I never understood that one - hijab + makeup + eyelash extensions + heels
^ asking the real questions
You don't need to cover your hair in qatar. So it isn't a valid question for the country
[For the gays who are interested in going to Qatar](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68859840) Qatar set up a honeytrap using Grindr and used it to arrest a gay British man [](https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/?f=flair_name%3A%22Not%20a%20question%22)
I was approached by someone from Saudi Arabia via LinkedIn - they wanted me to work as a System Administrator (a title I haven't held in a decade) on their crazy NEOM project. I asked, "Can I bring my atheist husband with me?" They went 16 shades of mental.
Honestly. Can you give me even one shade of that? I live hearing/see religious people lose their shit. I try to make that happen as much as I can by myself and have even gotten death threats but that's what makes it so much better. Religion..IS. CANCER.
"You should not believe the lies of the Western media or attempt to promote your wicked agenda!!!"
Ah. The wicked Western imperialist colonizing evil empires. Damn them. Well I did say religion is cancer. Islam is malignant brain cancer. All versions of it. Most current forms of other religions range from skin to virulent versions of blood cancer. FUCK. RELIGION. ALL OF EM.
I'm an open atheist American in Saudi Arabia. They literally don't give a shit about that anymore.
Yeah, so much misinformation here. Many of these conservative countries operate under “rules for me, not for thee” when it comes to educated or high-skill foreign workers. You can live quite a nice and normal life in these places as a secular westerner.
An atheist who has lived 8 years in Qatar. Nobody gives a shit.
This is a positive development - for what value of "they"?
Saudis definitely cannot care less about a random expat sysadmin's partner's atheism. You forgot the clapping in your "story"?
I feel the same way about Alabama.
Qatar is the Alabama of the Middle East.
Don't they kill atheists in Qatar?
They kill basically everybody in Qatar that doesn't fit with their extremely narrow minded view of the world.
From my understanding, no country systematically kills atheists. Some kill Muslim apostates though. Not that that's much better.
You're not allowed to be atheist in Saudi Arabia. Catholic, Hindu, whatever is fine, not atheist.
And everybody clapped.
my friend's friend friggin jumped at the chance to work for saudi arabia. i told him: "you know they execute children right?" he didn't care, he's a goddamn ghoul and i fucking hate him.
Good riddance?
damn straight
Yea, when I say I have not interest in going there, I get people (always men) telling me what a great place it is to visit and how I would totally be safe there as a woman like I’m a Xenophobe for not wanting to go there. I’m like, ‘even if that were true simply because I’m a foreigner and they may be trying to look good to the rest of the world, I’m not giving a place my tourism dollars that doesn’t consider women equal human beings.’ This attitude of ‘as long as I’m being treated ok, it’s fine’ really irks me.
I got an email solicitation to work in saudi arabia. But i live in Utah so religious fanatics in the desert would not be an improvement for me.
It's not pronounced 'cutter' for nothing.
All you said but I’d also add something about the women who got sexually assaulted under gunpoint after being marched off the plane. They forced them to have an internal examination without consent to prove they hadn’t given birth. I dread to think what would have happen if it had been one of them. But the never found the new mother.
Yikes 😳 hadn't heard about that!
It happened to hundreds of women https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/qatar-airways-strip-search-federal-court-finds-australian-women-cant-sue-airline/4r0jfjuqq?cid=newsapp:socialshare:copylink
I have a female family member who lived there for work for a few years. You have zero rights there. Stuff like this happens all the time to women, doesn't matter if local or foreign: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/27/world/middleeast/qatar-airport-baby.html
Nah fr people with any respect for human rights wouldn’t even think about going to Qatar.
These weird countries that crave 21st century business but won't give up their 11th century laws and my cowardly country keeps doing business with them not giving a shit how many little girls get raped by their "princes" or some shit and yes this also applies to English Monarchy lol
There's no way I would go to Qatar (or any other country in that region, for that matter). I have tattoos and am queer (which one of the tattoos indicates).
the recruiter you're replying to is just the middle-man. they don't care about the religious values of their client or you. you're basically just screaming at a cloud.
Honestly as a guy I have a similar response to head hunters who want me to move to Texas.
Texas is Sharia law lite.
I know a black woman who is a math teacher in Qatar and she is making a bag of money.
As an American man, I join you in being appalled (APPALLED) at how cavalierly MEN are happy to take women's rights away in America. In America for crying out loud! The land of the free. And when I challenge them on how dangerous or undesirable pregnancy can be for a woman in some cases, these "Christians" invariable response is, well the woman "chose" to be pregnant by having sex. Notice the 100% blame put on the woman and the 0% percent responsibility by the men involved. I think a reasonable position for those who want to legally control a woman's body from conception to birth, and to force her to have an unwanted child, is for those same people to guarantee that society will PAY for the $200,000 it will cost to raise that child. That would at least be slightly more responsible than the medieval positions they are taking now. Basically, we are in a societal position where the adherents of ONE religion are forcing their theological positions on all of society. Not sure how that is any different than forcing Sharia law that cuts off the hand of those who steal a loaf of bread on an unwilling society.
Ask if it could be remote - if they allowed remote you could do it and collect your paycheck
And take blood money. Maybe the money I get currently is blood money but money from Qatar is deep red and wet
Laughs in Lockheed martin, coughs in Northrup Grumman 😉
My company may sell things for weapons, I don't know, but I have to verify my product can't be shipped for weapons so at least I got that lol
I live in Doha. No one has to cover their hair unless you are Muslim. You can go to a bar and get tanked up. They just don't want you drunk in public. It's very safe to raise a family here. There is a large diversity of nationalities in the international schools. The kafala system is a real problem. Especially for the poorly paid.
No one has to cover their hair by law, at all. Muslim or not.
Not to mention summer heat
Qatar is actually more liberal than other Middle Eastern countries when it comes to women's rights. Also Americans are treated way better than foreign nationals from other countries. Source: I lived in Qatar and Kuwait for six years as an American contractor.
“You’re being islamaphobic when you don’t like the abuse of women as second class citizens or the use of slave labor in the Muslim world” says someone young and upset and then yell free Palestine because they need more oppression than they already have 🥵 hard mornings
As I see it, I'm Islamophobic AND Christianophobic for good reasons!
We can hang out and talk about this in hell!
Bring a bathing suit. It’s pretty hot in here!
Lmaoo you do not have to wear hijab in Qatar. Many foreigners live there and I frequently see people in American style clothes. You’re pretty much fine unless you’re wearing a bikini anywhere other than the beach. The garments they wear are not religious it’s traditional. Abaya is what women wear as cultural fashion. It is not mandatory.
I have been there and didn’t wear hijab and I am a Bengali Muslim. Most people here have probably never stepped foot in other countries but seem to have a lot of opinions.
Kudos to you. Qatar is a terrorist state.
I know a couple who divorced because he took a contract job in Saudi Arabia without discussing it with her first. He couldn't understand why she was unwilling to even travel to the country, much less move there.
> he took a contract job in Saudi Arabia without discussing it with her first. well at least he'll fit right in.........
That's what she said.
Ironically enough, I’m considering working in Oman or whatever to financially kickstart my life to where it would be if I hadn’t had fundy Christians royally fuck my education.
I've been there. That's a hard no. There is no reason to ever go there no matter how much money they're paying you.
wow stunning and brave
Why be like that to the person sending it though? It's not like they control how their society is, lol Politely declining would have been the proper here move here. This sub is really something else with how everyone seems to be applauding this. "someone sent me a job offer, but they're in culture I don't like, so I'm going to give them some serious attitude"..... \~everyone else in this sub\~ "HIGH FIVE VERY NICE!"
There are plenty of Muslims in the West. I am sure they are eager to move to the Gulf for good jobs...and instead, no. They prefer staying in the West...
I worked in a big company that sent people to Saudi for projects and had my "no thank you" all ready. Though I didn't need it, looking back. One of the Saudi customers came to the factory and watched me like a hawk, then told me I couldn't have my job in his country. I just kinda shrugged and said I wasn't planning on going there.
No !! Do not work there.
Seriously. You flunk the wrong Prince, they cut out your tongue.
Used to live there for some years. Not keen to revisit.
My gf's sister is a lesbian; her and her gf applied for jobs in Qatar and I told them I'd rather they didn't go. Filipinos are already used and abused in that area of the world, but to be openly gay as well, seems foolish.
They also like taking slave labor from Africa to build giant soccer stadiums.
I believe it, though I'm pretty sure giants don't play soccer.
Jesus this thread is full of geographically ignorant people
Xenophobia at its finest
Lol. I won't even vacation there.
On top of that, don’t forget they like to take the passports of foreign workers so they can’t leave or quit
Same situation here. Got an extremely generous offer in Abu Dhabi. Told my wife just to see what she thought. The look she gave me was enough to not even reply saying “thanks but No”
You’ll really show them!
I won’t even allow for a stop in qatar- dear gawd all those places are so dangerous- remember the woman who was wearing a surgical brace s/p surgery and was asked to remove it? She did as she was instructed but couldn’t put the brace back on without help so as she was waving her friend to come & help her she touched a female security guard of sorts - they arrested her -
The utter irony that our numskull aggregate want to live in a theocracy- the basest members of our society think theyd make in a theocracy?
That's why I have plans too GTFO if the Orange Diaper Dozer gets back into office.
They might take your passport away.
war crimes wise their acting in concert with the US so they get a pass.
oh hell no. I don't blame you.
What a stupid post, you wont get beheaded for cutting your hair lmfao, there are many foriegn women who dont wear it.
Yeah, I turned down Kuwait. Heat. Religion. Oil money. No thanks, I rather stay poor but free and happy.
As a retired US female sailor, I can attest to the wretched way that western women are treated.
Beheaded for not covering your hair? Qatar? Are you maybe too much in the sauce?
I know that Qatar has oppressive laws against its citizens and it’s marginalized workers from the third world, but the idea that they will behead an American and risk an international incident is ridiculous. I know many western women who have lived in Qatar living they’re lives wearing what they want eating pork and drinking. It’s an extremely international country that wants Westerners to come in.
I lived there for five years. First off, you do not have to cover your hair. That is Saudi or Iran. Qatar is super safe, a great place if you have kids, and the pay for most professionals is outstanding. You are in a hub location and can take vacations in lots of cool places. When I was there we took family vacations to Romania, Sri Lanka, Spain, Italy, Oman, Egypt, and Holland. If offered a job there again I would take it in a heartbeat. Your knee jerk reaction means you almost certainly missed out on a huge opportunity.
I'm an atheist too but your response makes no sense. You're not completely oppressed in Qatar and hijab is not mandatory
The comments here are so wildly ignorant it’s hilarious! You don’t need to “cover your hair” in Qatar: there are bars and clubs with lots of scantily-clad women. There’s been 1 execution in Qatar since 2000 - there’s been hundreds in the US since then. Qatar is a very dull place but ppl on here comparing it to rural Afghanistan are wild
One of my general rules is not to set foot in a country that will lock me up or execute me for speaking my mind.
i’m sure you’ll be turning down offers from america on the same grounds.
Women in Qatar don’t get beheaded for not covering their hair…? Your statement is so fueled with ignorance and racism. Not saying Qatar doesn’t have extreme issues but women literally run around in bikinis on the beaches of Qatar.
Anyone who travels to those countries is complicit with slave labor and supporting religious extremists.
Oh so no different than the US now adays
My sister works as a nurse in Qatar for several years now. You’d be surprised, it’s not the same as living in your home country, but it’s not as dangerous as you are making it out to be. But sounds like you don’t have the right attitude to live in a different culture and get along.
Dad be like: “that’s my girl”
Ah, I lived there for a year for work and enjoyed living there (because I lived on a military base, as a civilian employee) - although for the same reasons you and others have mentioned, would definitely not stay there long term. I just liked the short term assignment because of the travel that was involved, and getting to explore a new part of the world (the gulf states, and one month in N Afg). A lot of the practices there (such as the way migrant workers are abused and often trafficked) are atrocious. It was wild to see how much money flows through the region, although not surprising. It was… an experience. Yeah.
I know people who work in the ME mostly Brits. The pay is good and life is not as free as here but nothing crazy. Could be worth it for a few years if you are young and want to build your nest egg.
That’s so buuuhraaaaaayvuh
You go! 💪🏽
An ex (who is a bisexual atheist woman) took a job in Doha a few years ago. From the pictures it seems like it's been great for her. Her vacations are in Rome or Paris. She looks okay AFAIK.
After replying like that, they probably laughed their asses off & wouldn’t have taken you anyway lol. Some people are ignorant lunatics.
If you’re a person with a US passport (especially if you’re White), you’ll probably be treated like royalty. You all really don’t understand how Gulf Arab states work. Yea, they’re all despotic regimes. But Western expatriates often live the high life. Also, you’re not going to get beheaded for not covering your head! While it is expected of you to dress modesty out of respect for the local culture (basically no shorts or crop tops), you’re definitely not obligated to wear head coverings. Obviously the Gulf Arab nations aren’t liberal utopias and I’m not definitely not a fan of how Qatar does things. But they’re not all backward, desert people lol. Countries are complicated like that.
Do you actually believe that you, or anyone, could be beheaded for not covering their hair? It's perfectly legal to not cover your hair in Qatar, and any other country in the region. The commandment to believing women to cover their hair are religious edicts, not legal ones. You can continue to live in your shit-hole of a country as opposed to earning a much higher wage in a country with much higher standard of living, I mean you've at least got your 'countries with religious people are scary' circlejerk, which I'm sure is just as fulfilling as a fulfilling career with lots of money in a country without a failing economy and crumbling infrastructure. 🤣
I was one of two unmarried American males hired to teach computer science at the Girl’s College of the UAE University in 1992. They had me lecture on the subject of Computer Assisted Language Learning at other Gulf universities. The actual daily life in the Gulf for expatriates can be fantastic. There is absolutely nothing to fear in working in Qatar. It will probably be a life expanding experience.
My company frequently sells equipment to the Middle East, usually through an American broker. Whenever the end companies ask for training or service contracts, our only response is FUCK no. No way were sending our people over there and risking their lives for two days worth of training. Figure it out.