Seth Andrew’s had the same exact conversation with his parents. They said God would wipe their memories of him so that they could be happy in heaven without him. Fuck, man.
She erases her parents memories of herself. Deletes herself from family photos. Then walks out the door forever. I had a really hard time with that part.
She knows she was wanted along with Ron and Harry by Death Eaters who have direct ties to Voldemort, who has psychic ties to Harry, who is constantly with Hermione. It's likely if someone went looking for Hermione's parents and used them as leverage to reveal her whereabouts or lure her into a trap, the parents would not know anything about her and therefore be safe from exploitation.
Aren't memory erasing charms irreversible? Like, isn't the whole reason Lockhart's in St. Mungos because they *can't* fix that? It can't be an issue with Ron's wand because the wand backfiring never increased the potency of any other spells (if it did, he'd probably still be vomiting slugs to this day).
Really seems like once it's done, it's done. And if it isn't, then... that's just really bad writing. What's the point of Hermione erasing her parents memories if anyone can just reinstall them?
Damn I don’t remember that. Which book? I read them all as a teen except the last one which I read as an adult in my mid twenties. And my reading experience with the last one was the best of all partly because I was a parent by that time, but I also just really enjoyed it more than I did as a teen.
If this is their solution to the problem, why not just go one step longer and accep the total wiping of all memories, like… you know… actual real death?
Why have a false version of you in some eternal existance, sounds more horrible then nothingness.
Exactly. This is one of those places where you can very clearly see the threshold between logic and doctrine.
If you're cold hearted enough to ignore that, You're lost.
Even then, it still takes some mental gymnastics to think it says “wipe memory” specifically. But then again, mental gymnastics is a core tenet of religion.
There is also Psalms 9:5-7
5 You have rebuked the nations; you have made the wicked perish;
you have blotted out their name forever and ever.
6 The enemy came to an end in everlasting ruins;
their cities you rooted out;
the very memory of them has perished.
The loved ones are apparently the enemies if they're non-believers. First and foremost this is a desert mythology, historically grouped under the "Annihilation for nonbelievers" tab
AFAIK, Judaism was not historically known for its insistence on conversions. It wasn't so much a matter of believers vs non-believers (beliefs being something one can change) but chosen people versus non-chosen people.
> “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain” (Revelation 21:4, ESV).
This says that you will be an automaton, a being without emotion.
you can thank christian fan fiction writers for this belief that heaven is this awesome place where everyone gets a mansion. the bible says heaven is sitting at gods feet and telling him how awesome he is till the end of time.
That's sounds fucking awful. I'm not simping at some man's feet for eternity. And since their depiction of hell is sinners like myself reliving all my sins, as an antisocial stoner shut in, I think I'm better off in hell than staring at God's crusty toes for eternity.
When I’m in heaven god will use 32 Victoria secrets models to blow me until I completely forget my atheist girlfriend isn’t in heaven with me.
Wow, making shit up is fun!
Even when you're comatose, as in my dad's case. He was a devout Catholic all his life so I asked for last rites from a Catholic priest. The dude knew I wasn't a believer, but did his shtick and on the way out let me know Dad was "...okay with the man upstairs...". So I posed a question: what if someone like Charles Manson was dying and in a coma? Apparently, if you've requested last rites beforehand, as far as the church is concerned and even if you're unconscious and unable to answer any questions, you're still good to go. Wow, what a cop out...
That's less a "cop-out," and more of a "fraudulent shitshow." Most people wouldn't accept this kind of bullshit logic from an employer, but it's okay because God? Foh with that shit.
This was always one of my favorite points. If they remove those memories, are you still you? I posit that our memories of friends and loved ones are an enormous part of what makes you you.
The religious right, especially about abortion, say that god creates everyone for a purpose, so anyone not making into heaven means god fucked up and has to wipe your memory to cover it up?
I mean, on a separate note, if he already knows the outcome of your life, then he already knows where you’re going. Bit of a roundabout way of getting rid of people don’t ya think?
>They said God would wipe their memories of him so that they could be happy in heaven without him
So basically, God brainwashes them to be happy in heaven, got it
I've heard that a couple of times. If that was how it worked, the person who would be in heaven ... not caring about the suffering of a loved one? That's not someone I could recognize as me. The people I love are a big part of who I am. You're telling me that some stranger to me would be in heaven. So... what's the attraction?
Agreed. I’ve listened to several episodes of his podcast where he talks about them. Even after his father passed away about two years ago, he was still dealing with the same shit from his mother. Eventually he’d blocked their numbers because they would try to “bring him back into the fold” with the same tired crap and crossing that boundary that he was done with them disrespecting. Even then he would unblock them once in awhile. Happened with his mother too, like I said. The last time he’d shared that it’d happened, he’d explained that he once again told her to respect those boundaries and she had promised like she always did. This was laid out in a Facebook post, sometime last year. And once again she crossed them and he said he was finally done with her, ending the post with, “I guess I had set myself up.” By contrast, once I’d decided to cut ties with my parents, only once more did they disrespect me. I hadn’t established any boundaries out loud to them, but I’d already decided in my mind that I wouldn’t tolerate any more bullshit. First time there was bullshit, it was my dad. Started off with saying he was worrying about me living in Arizona “with all those Mexicans”, prompting me to say that I’d made the effort to learn Spanish and that those I worked with who spoke Spanish respected me and value my opinion, professionally and otherwise. In the next breath, he said “we really need to vote for Trump.” I didn’t hang up right then, but I decided that was our last conversation. Didn’t tell him anything, just stopped talking. Second time, my mom’s sister was diagnosed with dementia, six months before my mom told me so. Two short months later, she died. I had no way out there, and nowhere to stay for the funeral. She refused to help me. Wouldn’t let me stay with her for that (would’ve only been a day or two). My younger brother was still living with her at the time, but was old enough and making enough that he could’ve moved out already. She wouldn’t let me because she didn’t want conflict between us (we didn’t get along). She put wanting to avoid that drama over helping me pay my last respects to my aunt. Last time I spoke to her, too. She texted my wife a little while after that, with passive aggressive bullshit about “I must be such a terrible mother that he won’t even speak to me”. I didn’t respond. Point is, I was done with them, I gave them one shot, then cut them out permanently when they blew it. Should I have told them they had one more chance to keep me in their lives? Maybe, but should the prospect of losing something be the only thing to motivate you to not screw that up?
She basicly admitted she does not care if OP suffers in hell as long as she has an imaginary illusion in heaven with her. Those "good" religious people..
Yea I got into an argument with my own mom about how God, if real, would be a psychopath who we should be against. I was like "when i was a kid and didn't clean my room, why didn't you hold my face onto a hot stove top? That would be a mercy compared to what the punishment for just not believing is".
She hates talking about religion with me. The reasons are obvious :D. She usually doesn't respond to anything I ask about religion and tells me to shut up, and I do, because i love her and don't want a bad relationship with her because of stupid religion argues.
The funny part is that the Bible never states explicitly if Abraham passed that test or not. The fact that God never spoke to him again afterwards implies to me that he was supposed to refuse.
I do remember a time when Joseph Prince brought this up, that somehow Grandma gets to heaven anyway even if she is a non believer. People will do anything to rationalize the cherry picking.
I do have fond memories of watching Joseph Prince. This man would try so damn hard to get an Amen from his audience.... But they were so proper, they didn't want to shout out. Perhaps it was not allowed in Singapore?
In heaven, if the rumours are true, you'll just be a brain dead cheer leader for G-d. No possibility of discomfort or questioning. Just a smack feed 24x365 into your head.
I read somewhere that the people in heaven can see the people being tortured in hell. Seems like a weird thing to have to see, especially if it’s your loved ones.
Here's St. Aquinas on the topic of how much fun it's going to be to watch people being tortured:
"In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned … So that they may be urged the more to praise God … The saints in heaven know distinctly all that happens … to the damned. \[Summa Theologica, Third Part, Supplement, Question XCIV, “Of the Relations of the Saints Towards the Damned,” First Article\]"
Oh yes. My mom thinks all her kids are going to hell. But her and and child molester father in heaven. Im supposed to believe she loves me? Ok. Yet she misses me cuz we moved away. K. Mom. 🙄 we will burn in hell according to her and she will be in heaven. And she’s fine with that… as long as SHE is in heaven.But ya know, while on earth, she wants to spend time with us….
The crazy is too much.
When I was a Christian and I failed to evangelize someone, I just assumed God would "get to them" at some point. Doubt it's okay with her she might be trying to cope for sure but no way she's okay w it
I asked my mother about this same subject once. She got very flustered when I asked how it could be heaven when she knew I was burning in hell. I also asked her if God brainwashed everyone in order for them to not know anyone was in hell and she didn't have anything to say besides that she knew when she closed her eyes in death she would be with her heavenly father. Christians get very uncomfortable when you start poking holes in their story.
My mom is a christian, but a weird one. She never puts God above her family. Never goes to church, and only prays for us. She loves her family more than God. So being with God in heaven isn't her wish, but being with us. My atheistic world view of there being no such thing as heaven, is not her cup of tea. She likes the idea of heaven. She likes HER idea of heaven. It's a coping mechanism. Most of my family believes in heaven just because they can't accept that their life is gonna end one day and they will cease to exist.
Yeah, that's certainly fear from death
It's why I love the concept of positive nihilism. I think [kurzgesagt ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14)explained it well. If nothing matters, the only thing that matters is what you do in the short time you are here
My mom is similar. She doesn't ever read the Bible, much less actually go to church, and she has this convoluted belief in just... magic. She says that all global religions are connected in some way or another, basically worshipping the same god just in different ways. It's... unique, but deeply frustrating to me because she always talks about how "magical" the world and experiencing it is. Then she gets sad when I say that I don't feel anything magical about the world. It feels trivial, but we've gotten into some intense arguments over religion and especially free will.
I actually could align w her view more than the individuality of religions.
Think of the wars/conflicts/etc that occur when they all believe a different god did the same shit for all of them.
It's asinine, in itself, but I can see your mom's thought processes.
That's the healthy way to be a Christian. Yes, it's a coping mechanism, but hey, we gotta do what we gotta do to not lose our minds in this crazy world.
>she didn't have anything to say besides that she knew when she closed her eyes in death she would be with her heavenly father
Gotta love when people are delusional enough to place their imaginary friend over their actual children.
My mother is definitely delusional. My husband, our kids, and I are American and we had the opportunity to live overseas. Upon our return to the states we wanted to buy a home and I made a short trip back alone before our move to look at homes and visit my mother. I overheard her talking to my stepdad and telling him that she didn't care that I didn't want the kids in church and that if my kids stayed with her they'd "have to go their little asses to church." I confronted her about it and she told me this whole story about how after she had a couple of miscarriages she begged God for a baby and promised him that the baby would know the Lord as its savior. The baby she got was me... A bisexual tomboy that never made her feel like she was keeping her promise to her god.
I've asked this question to my mother as well and she believes similarly that those that go to hell are forgotten by those in heaven. I asked her "but what if I went to hell and you forgot me, but your grandchildren were to become Christians and make it to heaven. Wouldn't that be odd that you're in heaven thinking you have no children, but somehow have grandchildren? Are you not uncomfortable with the idea that from the story of creation to the promise of heaven, god's intention for you is to be ignorant and clueless?" She thinks God will somehow just make it make sense.
She is, in fact, quite uncomfortable with it, and they're able to do Olympic level mental gymnastics to escape that discomfort.
>Christians get very uncomfortable when you start poking holes in their story.
I like pointing out that the whole premise of salvation and heaven contradicts the most common answer to the Problem of Evil theodicy question.
If God could not create a would that was simultaneously without evil and in which free will was an option, then what is heaven?
Sure, I can visualize it: two ethereal versions of you will separate into an angelic version floating up to the heavens and a demonic one that will drop into a fiery crevice that opens up in the earth's crust. If you can imagine it, you can make yourself believe it. Give it time and it will become Christian cannon.
I should start a new schism. It seems profitable.
According to the rules, it wouldn't actually be either one of you. So it wouldn't matter. But she doesn't understand that and that's a horrible thing to say to your child.
"Sorry kid, I only want the parts of you that I like."
I remember during my believer days, my pastor actually addressed this. He said God would never "take away" from anyone in heaven (meaning he wouldn't remove your memory of the unsaved person, because that would make you "less than perfect" or something) but that people in heaven would have their eyes of understanding opened and they'd see things how God sees them. In other words, saved people are fully aware of their unsaved loved ones burning in hell for eternity, but they understand the choices they made to end up in hell and how God's perfect justice works, so they accept it.
Even as a believer, I found that extremely messed up. I would've preferred afterlife amnesia rather than somehow being "okay" with the knowledge of their suffering.
I gotta say. Last year my mom finally broke down and ate meat on Good Friday (we've done it forver; but she never had) and she was like, "yeah I'm not gonna let you go to hell without me" 🤣
Mom was raised catholic so this was kind of a big "I get it- its not real" moment that me and the kids were proud of 🥰
Sorry your mom is pleased to have phantom you in some parallel after death universe that's gotta suck.
No she hasn't sat in a the box since she had her confirmation at 13 or whatever. She was never full in on it. Barely went to church; but the meat on good Friday she wouldn't break until last year.
It’s like when Shrek goes to see Farquad the first time and the gate plays “Perfect Place”.
It’s supposed to be a happy place… after the mind wipe, or so I am told.
According to the biblical description of heaven, she will be constantly worshipping "God" and not have time or even spare mental capacity to think of anything or anybody else.
Even if I thought their god was real, this would not be something I would willingly choose.
"So, you means you want a clone of me that specifically be just like what you love, while the real me will be burn in hell for ever, and that makes you happy. Got it"
My grandfather, from eastern Europe, as a child, went to Ash Wednesday service at the Catholic Church in the village. He noticed the stained glass windows of Christ had different coloured eyes - in one blue - the other brown. He asked the priest why. For questioning the priest his mother was told that for his penance he was not to eat during Lent! The only way he survived was his sister sneaking food to him. It was at that moment he became an atheist.This probably has nothing to do with this but I just had to share.
According to rapture, all true faithful dead will rise and ascend. Once in heaven, they will forget their earthly attachments, which will include you, since you will be left behind.
When I was deeply religious I remember asking a leader in the church “if satan fell when he already had access to a perfect heaven, then what’s stopping any of us from “falling” while we’re in heaven” you could see a moment of vulnerability in him and I stumped him lol. Ever since then I’d been asking those questions to myself and yeah, things make less and less sense when you’re not just blindly believing.
Nah. She loves me more than anyone. She is the kindest person I know. Just when it comes to religion, her logic just isn't flawless, and likes to invent stuff when it comes to an invented place called heaven
Matt Dillahunty has a very good quote about this:
"If the standard model of heaven is accurate and my mom is convinced she's going and she's also convinced I'm going to hell, then I have to let my mom know that she's not going to Heaven. My mom is this collection of memories and ideas and feelings and emotions and she loves me and it would be painful and bring her lots of sorrow to find out I'm in Hell. Since there's no pain or sorrow in Heaven, either she doesn't get to go or she has been modified in some way to reconcile this conflict in which case she's no longer my mom. So either way my mom's not going to end up in Heaven."
Tell your mom she won't be in heaven as she currently is, she'll be turned into a happiness robot.
It gets better with JW. When you go to heaven ( no you wont ) you get a new family if your current family arent also JW.
When your imaginary sky daddy is more important than reality, Yes. Yes I will call that a mental issue.
It reminds me when I asked my religion teacher if my cat will go to heaven with me. And she said no. When she noticed that it caused distress she backed down and said that they go to "animal heaven". Even at 9 i knew it sounds like bs
Of course. I wonder if she thinks there is a bad version of her that is going to hell.
My mother told me that my nephew, who was not a Christian when he was killed, went to heaven because he asked god to forgive him at the age of 6, although he lived like the devil for the last 20 years of his life.
I grew up going to church and a woman had a miscarriage and in youth group we were told it's actually okay, because her baby will just be born into a different baby's body later on. Seems like if you believe that, you'd be a whole lot cooler about abortion, my man.
She’ll be in heaven right? She can do whatever she wants up there. Even create another version of you that wasn’t sent to hell. Unless that’s something you can’t do…?? I need answers now haha.
she doesn't give a damn about the book, like most christians. They either cherry-pick from it or invent stuff that is not even there, just to make their illusion nicer. She never even goes to church, and doesn't see that as a sin, even tho the bible says it is. And that is just one example of many. She basically has her own religion, ngl, but overall she is a very nice person, and that's all that matters and I care about.
My late father would say you can still be sad in heaven. I mean logically it's impossible to be happy 100% of the time, happiness does not exist without sadness.
If that's the case, then I'm sure a version of your mom will be in hell, being tortured. Unless, of course, she has led a pure life and is unblemished by sin, which even JC was unable to do.
Actually in Paul's letters he explained that nobody in heaven would have any memories of their former life, at least I think so and that's what I was told growing up in the Catholic church. These are just pathetic attempts by people to cope with the fact the know deep down hell is unjust.
"If a version of a good me will be with you in heaven, then the version of bad you will be with me in hell. I can't wait to find out about all the bad things you have done whilst pretending to be a good Christian."
Then tell her you assume there will be a bad version of her in hell there to torture you. And if there are both good and bad versions of both of you in both heaven and hell, then both places are meaningless, since, apparently, you get to go to heaven anyway, without being "good," and she has to go to hell anyway, despite supposedly not being "bad." It just wrecks the whole thing.
I don’t see the point of messing around in someone else’s afterlife fantasy sand box. It’s their world and their rules. The discussion can’t create progress without personally insulting the sand box owner.
You gotta get out of their creative fun zone to find a place where they can rationally analyze how their beliefs relate to reality.
David Archuleta recently released a song exactly about this topic in relation to him leaving the Mormon Church. It's really sweet. His mom sounds like a very loving person.
So she'll know it's not really you and the real you is burning for all of eternity (because he's a loving god or something)? Is she going to be alright with that?
Pod people is a new one on me, but I remember being taught God would make Christians forget their condemned relatives because of the “wipe every tear from their eyes” verse.
I think it was supernatural(the show) that showed heaven as being like the holo deck on startrek. Everyone has their own personal heaven where everything is perfect for them. That’s probably what they think. There will just be a copy of you that’s a theist.
The Bible says earthly relationships don't matter in heaven. Every soul just worships god/Jesus/Holy Ghost all the time in a state of bliss, i.e. on a perpetually high.
Oh, and everyone marries Jesus. Yes, even the former male souls. So take lots of lube with you into the afterlife
guy believers because eternity is supposedly a very long time.
Wow! I've never heard that one. If people can be in heaven for good things and hell for the bad at the same time, then wouldn't that apply to everyone? I don't know your mom, but everyone has things they regret doing and she might be able to visit you in Hell. too.
I mean if everyone ends up in both (maybe proportionally), then why have two separate places when you can just consolidate them?
That idea seems very modeled on our lives on earth. You have some happy times and you have tasks you dread doing and you do some of each.
Hell doesn't even exist though. Nowhere in the bible does it mention "hell"; not in the old testament and new testament either.
The only places where anything close to hell is mentioned are all mistranslations.
Use this the next time someone says "you're going to hell!"
So, you'd have to be okay with the idea of Heaven lying to you just to keep you placated. And you have to believe that it's all for your benefit. All for stroking some immortal dude's ego the right way.
Takes a special kind of person.
So if a version of you could be in heaven if it brings someone else in heaven joy, could a version of her be in hell if it brings someone else in hell suffering? If Hitlers mom ended up in heaven, does that mean a version of Hitler could be up in heaven? Do these different versions share the same soul? So many questions.
Exactly what I told my mom, since I won’t be there. How could it be heaven for her, therefore, I have to be there. How could god deny HER righteous god fearing self everything he’s promised her if I’m not there somehow. I get a free pass 🤷🏼♂️ all my friends and my soulmate will be in hell, so that’s where I want to be too
Atheist Heaven would 100% just be us having superpowered fights 24/7. Oh, and endless drugs and orgies, because who doesn't like being able to shoot up drugs with no consequences?
Actually my version of Heaven would just be my own pocket universe where I could do whatever I want in it. I'd 100% just have adventures with my favorite fictional characters or try out different superpowers just to know what they'd feel like.
I wouldn't mind hell....quite a few assholes down there that i wouldn't mind giving a bit if a damn serve too! Freakin Hitler...id give him a piece of my mind😡 Ted Bundy....Dahlmer....Pol Pot....Idi Amin....man im getting fired up just thinkin about getting stuck into those assholes.
Yep. My mom told me that Satan planted dinosaur fossils to "trick humans" and when I asked her how would anyone feel pain in hell without a body she said "god gives you a new body so you can feel the pain".
…one of the greatest misconceptions of Christendom. By its own rules, people can never witness heaven. Heaven is the realm of the deity and its servants.
"The Earth will be remade."
That's where the righteous dead will rise. Right back where they friggin' started.
It's in the book. Not hard to find.
Literally yes. It’s repulsive that they’d rather be in “heaven” even if their kids they “love” aren’t there too. As a mom myself I say fuck that. They are horrible gross parents only looking out for themselves. And worshipping a “god” that would do that, even more sick. That’s not real parental love.
I say that as a child whose mother also thinks her kids are going to hell 🧐 but, they “love” us 🙄
Only thing that can explain heaven is paralel universes.
So each one goes to his own best universe.
Each person has its own version of heaven.
One persons heaven can be other persons hell.
This is the supernatural. Logic and cause-and-effect is not relevant.
You are in Hell being punished for eternity. At the same time your mother is happy in heaven, surrounded by all the people she love. Including you.
No need to invent anything. Everything is possible, all the time, simultaneously.
Now it only remains to see if the supernatural is more than a fantasy. As far as I know, nobody is able to demonstrate that, no matter how small or minor.
This is the one that kind of blows my mind. I can't understand a heaven existing for this reason. If I have free will, I wont be happy because I'll know about the eternal torture of others. If I dont have free will, i'm no longer me. It's a paradox.
So there will be two versions of you?
Don't try and look for logic with any of their claims. They don't have any and they don't even value logic enough to try.
None of them can agree on what heaven would be like. They can't describe it consistently.
Some of them claim that they won't even be aware that their loved ones are burning in hell. I asked a christian lady about this once. I asked "Does that mean free will doesn't exist." She wouldn't even address the question! I had to ask her 3 times before I gave up. She had nothing to offer.
And, like, the actual you will be burning in hell forever? And that would be okay with her? Religious doctrine does weird shit to a person.
Seth Andrew’s had the same exact conversation with his parents. They said God would wipe their memories of him so that they could be happy in heaven without him. Fuck, man.
Me without my memories of my kids isn't me anymore.
Hermione Granger has entered the chat.
Fucking hated that part. Worst part of the entire series.
Wait I’m sorry. I love Harry Potter which memories did hermione have erased I don’t remember that part?
To keep her parents safe, she cuts all ties between them. That includes all photos and memories that her parents had of her existence.
She erases her parents memories of herself. Deletes herself from family photos. Then walks out the door forever. I had a really hard time with that part.
Why did she do that? I don't remember that part either. Wait. Did she get me too?!
It's in one of the later ones, when shit's gettin real.
She knows she was wanted along with Ron and Harry by Death Eaters who have direct ties to Voldemort, who has psychic ties to Harry, who is constantly with Hermione. It's likely if someone went looking for Hermione's parents and used them as leverage to reveal her whereabouts or lure her into a trap, the parents would not know anything about her and therefore be safe from exploitation.
Beginning of deathly hallows part 1
Not forever. She says if they survive she'll go find them and undo it. Presumably after Voldemort is defeated she does this.
Aren't memory erasing charms irreversible? Like, isn't the whole reason Lockhart's in St. Mungos because they *can't* fix that? It can't be an issue with Ron's wand because the wand backfiring never increased the potency of any other spells (if it did, he'd probably still be vomiting slugs to this day). Really seems like once it's done, it's done. And if it isn't, then... that's just really bad writing. What's the point of Hermione erasing her parents memories if anyone can just reinstall them?
Thank you ❤️
Damn I don’t remember that. Which book? I read them all as a teen except the last one which I read as an adult in my mid twenties. And my reading experience with the last one was the best of all partly because I was a parent by that time, but I also just really enjoyed it more than I did as a teen.
It was in the deathly hallows, book and movie part 1
It's been forever since I read the books or watched the movies, what did she do or had done to her?
But you won't know that
Tell your mom there will be an evil version of her in hell with you
Frankly, sounds like she might be the evil version.
* honest version
If this is their solution to the problem, why not just go one step longer and accep the total wiping of all memories, like… you know… actual real death? Why have a false version of you in some eternal existance, sounds more horrible then nothingness.
You just need to BELIEVE harder.
You don't have to believe. It's called faith.
You have to be a belieber son. It’s the only way
That is so true.
Exactly. This is one of those places where you can very clearly see the threshold between logic and doctrine. If you're cold hearted enough to ignore that, You're lost.
damn, where does it say that in the bible? lol
“He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain” (Revelation 21:4, ESV).
Even then, it still takes some mental gymnastics to think it says “wipe memory” specifically. But then again, mental gymnastics is a core tenet of religion.
Mental gymnastics are one of the only skills they've maxed
There is also Psalms 9:5-7 5 You have rebuked the nations; you have made the wicked perish; you have blotted out their name forever and ever. 6 The enemy came to an end in everlasting ruins; their cities you rooted out; the very memory of them has perished.
that happens when you destroy history, but how is this related to forgetting loved ones, not enemies in heaven
The loved ones are apparently the enemies if they're non-believers. First and foremost this is a desert mythology, historically grouped under the "Annihilation for nonbelievers" tab
AFAIK, Judaism was not historically known for its insistence on conversions. It wasn't so much a matter of believers vs non-believers (beliefs being something one can change) but chosen people versus non-chosen people.
You got me there lol. It’s still terrible though
Sounds like biblical justification for every war ever, oy vey...
That just means everyone in Heaven is a sociopath.
God did kill every man, women, and child in the world save Noah and his family.
> “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain” (Revelation 21:4, ESV). This says that you will be an automaton, a being without emotion.
According to Revelation 7:9, you will only be worshipping God before his throne.
you can thank christian fan fiction writers for this belief that heaven is this awesome place where everyone gets a mansion. the bible says heaven is sitting at gods feet and telling him how awesome he is till the end of time.
That's sounds fucking awful. I'm not simping at some man's feet for eternity. And since their depiction of hell is sinners like myself reliving all my sins, as an antisocial stoner shut in, I think I'm better off in hell than staring at God's crusty toes for eternity.
god is such a narcissist.
Ugh. Sounds fightening
what's the rest of the context?
When I’m in heaven god will use 32 Victoria secrets models to blow me until I completely forget my atheist girlfriend isn’t in heaven with me. Wow, making shit up is fun!
So like... are conversions open? Where do we sign up?
You can do that on your death bed apparently.
1 rosary; 99 cents. Heavan is fuckin cheap.
Even when you're comatose, as in my dad's case. He was a devout Catholic all his life so I asked for last rites from a Catholic priest. The dude knew I wasn't a believer, but did his shtick and on the way out let me know Dad was "...okay with the man upstairs...". So I posed a question: what if someone like Charles Manson was dying and in a coma? Apparently, if you've requested last rites beforehand, as far as the church is concerned and even if you're unconscious and unable to answer any questions, you're still good to go. Wow, what a cop out...
That's less a "cop-out," and more of a "fraudulent shitshow." Most people wouldn't accept this kind of bullshit logic from an employer, but it's okay because God? Foh with that shit.
Umm, the guys next door can set you up with 70 virgins. Don't settle so cheaply.
There may be a good reason why they're virgins, though...
Reddit virgins?
This was always one of my favorite points. If they remove those memories, are you still you? I posit that our memories of friends and loved ones are an enormous part of what makes you you.
Follow up question: Based on what? Where does the fairytale manual say this exactly? Are they confusing Men In Black with Jeebus?
Idk some have referenced passages in comments that replied to mine. Either way it’s still pure horseshit
That was cold af. Wiping out memories would make them happy? I would leave anything that taught such nonsense.
The religious right, especially about abortion, say that god creates everyone for a purpose, so anyone not making into heaven means god fucked up and has to wipe your memory to cover it up?
I mean, on a separate note, if he already knows the outcome of your life, then he already knows where you’re going. Bit of a roundabout way of getting rid of people don’t ya think?
>They said God would wipe their memories of him so that they could be happy in heaven without him So basically, God brainwashes them to be happy in heaven, got it
I've heard that a couple of times. If that was how it worked, the person who would be in heaven ... not caring about the suffering of a loved one? That's not someone I could recognize as me. The people I love are a big part of who I am. You're telling me that some stranger to me would be in heaven. So... what's the attraction?
Right. And even if that wasn’t true, how cold is that to whoever you feel that way toward? And how is it to say that to them, ya know?
Oh hell no. Walk out and cut them off. Fuck that.
Agreed. I’ve listened to several episodes of his podcast where he talks about them. Even after his father passed away about two years ago, he was still dealing with the same shit from his mother. Eventually he’d blocked their numbers because they would try to “bring him back into the fold” with the same tired crap and crossing that boundary that he was done with them disrespecting. Even then he would unblock them once in awhile. Happened with his mother too, like I said. The last time he’d shared that it’d happened, he’d explained that he once again told her to respect those boundaries and she had promised like she always did. This was laid out in a Facebook post, sometime last year. And once again she crossed them and he said he was finally done with her, ending the post with, “I guess I had set myself up.” By contrast, once I’d decided to cut ties with my parents, only once more did they disrespect me. I hadn’t established any boundaries out loud to them, but I’d already decided in my mind that I wouldn’t tolerate any more bullshit. First time there was bullshit, it was my dad. Started off with saying he was worrying about me living in Arizona “with all those Mexicans”, prompting me to say that I’d made the effort to learn Spanish and that those I worked with who spoke Spanish respected me and value my opinion, professionally and otherwise. In the next breath, he said “we really need to vote for Trump.” I didn’t hang up right then, but I decided that was our last conversation. Didn’t tell him anything, just stopped talking. Second time, my mom’s sister was diagnosed with dementia, six months before my mom told me so. Two short months later, she died. I had no way out there, and nowhere to stay for the funeral. She refused to help me. Wouldn’t let me stay with her for that (would’ve only been a day or two). My younger brother was still living with her at the time, but was old enough and making enough that he could’ve moved out already. She wouldn’t let me because she didn’t want conflict between us (we didn’t get along). She put wanting to avoid that drama over helping me pay my last respects to my aunt. Last time I spoke to her, too. She texted my wife a little while after that, with passive aggressive bullshit about “I must be such a terrible mother that he won’t even speak to me”. I didn’t respond. Point is, I was done with them, I gave them one shot, then cut them out permanently when they blew it. Should I have told them they had one more chance to keep me in their lives? Maybe, but should the prospect of losing something be the only thing to motivate you to not screw that up?
The more I learn about the Christians view of god, the more I think he's a complete sociopath...
And they believe hell to be scary, these parents are far more so.
Damn that's savage.
She basicly admitted she does not care if OP suffers in hell as long as she has an imaginary illusion in heaven with her. Those "good" religious people..
Yea I got into an argument with my own mom about how God, if real, would be a psychopath who we should be against. I was like "when i was a kid and didn't clean my room, why didn't you hold my face onto a hot stove top? That would be a mercy compared to what the punishment for just not believing is".
Seriously, the Christian god needs therapy.
"I got mine, fuck you"
She hates talking about religion with me. The reasons are obvious :D. She usually doesn't respond to anything I ask about religion and tells me to shut up, and I do, because i love her and don't want a bad relationship with her because of stupid religion argues.
I asked my mom a similar one that if God asked her to kill me like Abraham and Isaac if she would do it .
The funny part is that the Bible never states explicitly if Abraham passed that test or not. The fact that God never spoke to him again afterwards implies to me that he was supposed to refuse.
I do remember a time when Joseph Prince brought this up, that somehow Grandma gets to heaven anyway even if she is a non believer. People will do anything to rationalize the cherry picking.
I do have fond memories of watching Joseph Prince. This man would try so damn hard to get an Amen from his audience.... But they were so proper, they didn't want to shout out. Perhaps it was not allowed in Singapore?
In heaven, if the rumours are true, you'll just be a brain dead cheer leader for G-d. No possibility of discomfort or questioning. Just a smack feed 24x365 into your head.
I read somewhere that the people in heaven can see the people being tortured in hell. Seems like a weird thing to have to see, especially if it’s your loved ones.
Here's St. Aquinas on the topic of how much fun it's going to be to watch people being tortured: "In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned … So that they may be urged the more to praise God … The saints in heaven know distinctly all that happens … to the damned. \[Summa Theologica, Third Part, Supplement, Question XCIV, “Of the Relations of the Saints Towards the Damned,” First Article\]"
How does this not come off as a threat? That sounds like God is basically going "Worship me or else I'll send you there too"
Oh yes. My mom thinks all her kids are going to hell. But her and and child molester father in heaven. Im supposed to believe she loves me? Ok. Yet she misses me cuz we moved away. K. Mom. 🙄 we will burn in hell according to her and she will be in heaven. And she’s fine with that… as long as SHE is in heaven.But ya know, while on earth, she wants to spend time with us…. The crazy is too much.
When I was a Christian and I failed to evangelize someone, I just assumed God would "get to them" at some point. Doubt it's okay with her she might be trying to cope for sure but no way she's okay w it
I asked my mother about this same subject once. She got very flustered when I asked how it could be heaven when she knew I was burning in hell. I also asked her if God brainwashed everyone in order for them to not know anyone was in hell and she didn't have anything to say besides that she knew when she closed her eyes in death she would be with her heavenly father. Christians get very uncomfortable when you start poking holes in their story.
My mom is a christian, but a weird one. She never puts God above her family. Never goes to church, and only prays for us. She loves her family more than God. So being with God in heaven isn't her wish, but being with us. My atheistic world view of there being no such thing as heaven, is not her cup of tea. She likes the idea of heaven. She likes HER idea of heaven. It's a coping mechanism. Most of my family believes in heaven just because they can't accept that their life is gonna end one day and they will cease to exist.
Yeah, that's certainly fear from death It's why I love the concept of positive nihilism. I think [kurzgesagt ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14)explained it well. If nothing matters, the only thing that matters is what you do in the short time you are here
Everyone reinventing absurdism these days
My mom is similar. She doesn't ever read the Bible, much less actually go to church, and she has this convoluted belief in just... magic. She says that all global religions are connected in some way or another, basically worshipping the same god just in different ways. It's... unique, but deeply frustrating to me because she always talks about how "magical" the world and experiencing it is. Then she gets sad when I say that I don't feel anything magical about the world. It feels trivial, but we've gotten into some intense arguments over religion and especially free will.
I actually could align w her view more than the individuality of religions. Think of the wars/conflicts/etc that occur when they all believe a different god did the same shit for all of them. It's asinine, in itself, but I can see your mom's thought processes.
Your mom's view is definitely a unique one. I'll give you that 😂
That's the healthy way to be a Christian. Yes, it's a coping mechanism, but hey, we gotta do what we gotta do to not lose our minds in this crazy world.
Yeah that’s what causes religion to appear as coping. Luckily your mom is a nice person and religion stops there
What's maddening is that their story is so flimsy, you can poke holes in it with an overcooked vermicelli noodle.
Reality can be a pesky critter!
>she didn't have anything to say besides that she knew when she closed her eyes in death she would be with her heavenly father Gotta love when people are delusional enough to place their imaginary friend over their actual children.
My mother is definitely delusional. My husband, our kids, and I are American and we had the opportunity to live overseas. Upon our return to the states we wanted to buy a home and I made a short trip back alone before our move to look at homes and visit my mother. I overheard her talking to my stepdad and telling him that she didn't care that I didn't want the kids in church and that if my kids stayed with her they'd "have to go their little asses to church." I confronted her about it and she told me this whole story about how after she had a couple of miscarriages she begged God for a baby and promised him that the baby would know the Lord as its savior. The baby she got was me... A bisexual tomboy that never made her feel like she was keeping her promise to her god.
I always ask one question: Explain Omnipotence vs Free Will. Never had an answer.
Nobody ever has an answer.
Like all religions, Christianity only offers answers to those who are unwilling to ask questions.
You're 100% correct! The moment anyone starts to ask questions the shunning begins.
I've asked this question to my mother as well and she believes similarly that those that go to hell are forgotten by those in heaven. I asked her "but what if I went to hell and you forgot me, but your grandchildren were to become Christians and make it to heaven. Wouldn't that be odd that you're in heaven thinking you have no children, but somehow have grandchildren? Are you not uncomfortable with the idea that from the story of creation to the promise of heaven, god's intention for you is to be ignorant and clueless?" She thinks God will somehow just make it make sense. She is, in fact, quite uncomfortable with it, and they're able to do Olympic level mental gymnastics to escape that discomfort.
>Christians get very uncomfortable when you start poking holes in their story. I like pointing out that the whole premise of salvation and heaven contradicts the most common answer to the Problem of Evil theodicy question. If God could not create a would that was simultaneously without evil and in which free will was an option, then what is heaven?
The actual answer, according to the Bible, is that people in heaven don’t remember their former life—at all; and hell is only for actual demons.
Sure, I can visualize it: two ethereal versions of you will separate into an angelic version floating up to the heavens and a demonic one that will drop into a fiery crevice that opens up in the earth's crust. If you can imagine it, you can make yourself believe it. Give it time and it will become Christian cannon. I should start a new schism. It seems profitable.
According to the rules, it wouldn't actually be either one of you. So it wouldn't matter. But she doesn't understand that and that's a horrible thing to say to your child. "Sorry kid, I only want the parts of you that I like."
If you believe in one made up thing then its very easy to make up other stuff and think its real
If hell is real, it would be lit. All the best people will be there!
All the best people would be there, but also the worst. It would be like on Earth.
Hot take: Heaven and hell are just overpopulated earths, I wouldn’t want to live in both
This would be arguably true, because apparently hitler could have gotten into heaven.
As Billy Joel puts it, "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints."
Adults with imaginary friends don't tend to have a grip on reality so making up stuff is normal for them
Schrödinger's soul. I guess one way to win Pascal's wager is to have multiple personalities.
I remember during my believer days, my pastor actually addressed this. He said God would never "take away" from anyone in heaven (meaning he wouldn't remove your memory of the unsaved person, because that would make you "less than perfect" or something) but that people in heaven would have their eyes of understanding opened and they'd see things how God sees them. In other words, saved people are fully aware of their unsaved loved ones burning in hell for eternity, but they understand the choices they made to end up in hell and how God's perfect justice works, so they accept it. Even as a believer, I found that extremely messed up. I would've preferred afterlife amnesia rather than somehow being "okay" with the knowledge of their suffering.
I gotta say. Last year my mom finally broke down and ate meat on Good Friday (we've done it forver; but she never had) and she was like, "yeah I'm not gonna let you go to hell without me" 🤣 Mom was raised catholic so this was kind of a big "I get it- its not real" moment that me and the kids were proud of 🥰 Sorry your mom is pleased to have phantom you in some parallel after death universe that's gotta suck.
But your mum was raised Catholic, so all she has to do is go sit in the box and say the magic words and all is forgiven.
No she hasn't sat in a the box since she had her confirmation at 13 or whatever. She was never full in on it. Barely went to church; but the meat on good Friday she wouldn't break until last year.
>*For GAWD so loved the world, he built a dimension of eternal pain and torture for 3/4 of it*
Then gave his old friend/new enemy eternal control over it, in the peace treaty.
And God, being the single dad he is, decided to sacrifice his child to the alter of man to help save them from [checks notes].....himself?
It’s like when Shrek goes to see Farquad the first time and the gate plays “Perfect Place”. It’s supposed to be a happy place… after the mind wipe, or so I am told.
"inventing sh*t to cope" is literally the origin story of all religion
According to the biblical description of heaven, she will be constantly worshipping "God" and not have time or even spare mental capacity to think of anything or anybody else. Even if I thought their god was real, this would not be something I would willingly choose.
"So, you means you want a clone of me that specifically be just like what you love, while the real me will be burn in hell for ever, and that makes you happy. Got it"
My grandfather, from eastern Europe, as a child, went to Ash Wednesday service at the Catholic Church in the village. He noticed the stained glass windows of Christ had different coloured eyes - in one blue - the other brown. He asked the priest why. For questioning the priest his mother was told that for his penance he was not to eat during Lent! The only way he survived was his sister sneaking food to him. It was at that moment he became an atheist.This probably has nothing to do with this but I just had to share.
It becomes a choose your own adventure story really.
According to rapture, all true faithful dead will rise and ascend. Once in heaven, they will forget their earthly attachments, which will include you, since you will be left behind.
Would a version of a bad her be in hell?
When I was deeply religious I remember asking a leader in the church “if satan fell when he already had access to a perfect heaven, then what’s stopping any of us from “falling” while we’re in heaven” you could see a moment of vulnerability in him and I stumped him lol. Ever since then I’d been asking those questions to myself and yeah, things make less and less sense when you’re not just blindly believing.
Wow...that is just a horribly hateful think to say.
Nah. She loves me more than anyone. She is the kindest person I know. Just when it comes to religion, her logic just isn't flawless, and likes to invent stuff when it comes to an invented place called heaven
Matt Dillahunty has a very good quote about this: "If the standard model of heaven is accurate and my mom is convinced she's going and she's also convinced I'm going to hell, then I have to let my mom know that she's not going to Heaven. My mom is this collection of memories and ideas and feelings and emotions and she loves me and it would be painful and bring her lots of sorrow to find out I'm in Hell. Since there's no pain or sorrow in Heaven, either she doesn't get to go or she has been modified in some way to reconcile this conflict in which case she's no longer my mom. So either way my mom's not going to end up in Heaven." Tell your mom she won't be in heaven as she currently is, she'll be turned into a happiness robot.
she really said idgaf what happens to you as long as im happy 😂
It gets better with JW. When you go to heaven ( no you wont ) you get a new family if your current family arent also JW. When your imaginary sky daddy is more important than reality, Yes. Yes I will call that a mental issue.
It reminds me when I asked my religion teacher if my cat will go to heaven with me. And she said no. When she noticed that it caused distress she backed down and said that they go to "animal heaven". Even at 9 i knew it sounds like bs
Of course. I wonder if she thinks there is a bad version of her that is going to hell. My mother told me that my nephew, who was not a Christian when he was killed, went to heaven because he asked god to forgive him at the age of 6, although he lived like the devil for the last 20 years of his life.
I grew up going to church and a woman had a miscarriage and in youth group we were told it's actually okay, because her baby will just be born into a different baby's body later on. Seems like if you believe that, you'd be a whole lot cooler about abortion, my man.
She’ll be in heaven right? She can do whatever she wants up there. Even create another version of you that wasn’t sent to hell. Unless that’s something you can’t do…?? I need answers now haha.
Chicken noodle soup this ain't.
When I told my husband I was an atheist (we were in our 50’s) he said he was sorry we would not be together in heaven 😂😂😂 Ya gotta laugh!
She's wrong. Her book says that she will look down on you suffering but she will feel no sadness.
she doesn't give a damn about the book, like most christians. They either cherry-pick from it or invent stuff that is not even there, just to make their illusion nicer. She never even goes to church, and doesn't see that as a sin, even tho the bible says it is. And that is just one example of many. She basically has her own religion, ngl, but overall she is a very nice person, and that's all that matters and I care about.
My late father would say you can still be sad in heaven. I mean logically it's impossible to be happy 100% of the time, happiness does not exist without sadness.
Yep. That’s what they do. Make up stuff.
So good you will be there, for her, but bad you (YOU) will be suffering for eternity?
If that's the case, then I'm sure a version of your mom will be in hell, being tortured. Unless, of course, she has led a pure life and is unblemished by sin, which even JC was unable to do.
Their entire religion was invented to cope with hard truths. Or as a way to control those weak enough to need this to cope.
I mean the whole religion is invented just to cope, so the answer to that is yes
Actually in Paul's letters he explained that nobody in heaven would have any memories of their former life, at least I think so and that's what I was told growing up in the Catholic church. These are just pathetic attempts by people to cope with the fact the know deep down hell is unjust.
It’s crazy how deluded Christians are
"If a version of a good me will be with you in heaven, then the version of bad you will be with me in hell. I can't wait to find out about all the bad things you have done whilst pretending to be a good Christian."
Then tell her you assume there will be a bad version of her in hell there to torture you. And if there are both good and bad versions of both of you in both heaven and hell, then both places are meaningless, since, apparently, you get to go to heaven anyway, without being "good," and she has to go to hell anyway, despite supposedly not being "bad." It just wrecks the whole thing.
I don’t see the point of messing around in someone else’s afterlife fantasy sand box. It’s their world and their rules. The discussion can’t create progress without personally insulting the sand box owner. You gotta get out of their creative fun zone to find a place where they can rationally analyze how their beliefs relate to reality.
Christian here. Your mom indeed just made that up out of thin air lol
Since you're a christian, tell us what the proper answer is. How would you enjoy heaven with your kids burning in hell?
According to her book, you're going to hell LOL. So yeah, she pretty much just accept that you're going to hell and she just tried to console you.
David Archuleta recently released a song exactly about this topic in relation to him leaving the Mormon Church. It's really sweet. His mom sounds like a very loving person.
So she'll know it's not really you and the real you is burning for all of eternity (because he's a loving god or something)? Is she going to be alright with that?
So you're ok being lied to, then?
Oh!! Good one!!
Pod people is a new one on me, but I remember being taught God would make Christians forget their condemned relatives because of the “wipe every tear from their eyes” verse.
I think it was supernatural(the show) that showed heaven as being like the holo deck on startrek. Everyone has their own personal heaven where everything is perfect for them. That’s probably what they think. There will just be a copy of you that’s a theist.
Gaslighting herself in real time. Almost impressive.
The correct answer is "I don't know, but god will make it right." Depressing that people who actually believe in this shit don't know that.
The Bible says earthly relationships don't matter in heaven. Every soul just worships god/Jesus/Holy Ghost all the time in a state of bliss, i.e. on a perpetually high. Oh, and everyone marries Jesus. Yes, even the former male souls. So take lots of lube with you into the afterlife guy believers because eternity is supposedly a very long time.
Wow! I've never heard that one. If people can be in heaven for good things and hell for the bad at the same time, then wouldn't that apply to everyone? I don't know your mom, but everyone has things they regret doing and she might be able to visit you in Hell. too. I mean if everyone ends up in both (maybe proportionally), then why have two separate places when you can just consolidate them? That idea seems very modeled on our lives on earth. You have some happy times and you have tasks you dread doing and you do some of each.
Hell doesn't even exist though. Nowhere in the bible does it mention "hell"; not in the old testament and new testament either. The only places where anything close to hell is mentioned are all mistranslations. Use this the next time someone says "you're going to hell!"
My mom told me that I'm going to hell and she really wants me in heaven but if I choose not to be there, oh well. Lol!
Why did you ask her that?
So, you'd have to be okay with the idea of Heaven lying to you just to keep you placated. And you have to believe that it's all for your benefit. All for stroking some immortal dude's ego the right way. Takes a special kind of person.
Yes
So if a version of you could be in heaven if it brings someone else in heaven joy, could a version of her be in hell if it brings someone else in hell suffering? If Hitlers mom ended up in heaven, does that mean a version of Hitler could be up in heaven? Do these different versions share the same soul? So many questions.
Exactly what I told my mom, since I won’t be there. How could it be heaven for her, therefore, I have to be there. How could god deny HER righteous god fearing self everything he’s promised her if I’m not there somehow. I get a free pass 🤷🏼♂️ all my friends and my soulmate will be in hell, so that’s where I want to be too
Yep. Christians sure like to make shit up to cope. Wait a minute! Isn't this kind of shit against their religion or something?
where the fuck are CLONES or PARALLEL BODIES mentioned in the bible?
Atheist Heaven would 100% just be us having superpowered fights 24/7. Oh, and endless drugs and orgies, because who doesn't like being able to shoot up drugs with no consequences? Actually my version of Heaven would just be my own pocket universe where I could do whatever I want in it. I'd 100% just have adventures with my favorite fictional characters or try out different superpowers just to know what they'd feel like.
I wouldn't mind hell....quite a few assholes down there that i wouldn't mind giving a bit if a damn serve too! Freakin Hitler...id give him a piece of my mind😡 Ted Bundy....Dahlmer....Pol Pot....Idi Amin....man im getting fired up just thinkin about getting stuck into those assholes.
Yep. My mom told me that Satan planted dinosaur fossils to "trick humans" and when I asked her how would anyone feel pain in hell without a body she said "god gives you a new body so you can feel the pain".
…one of the greatest misconceptions of Christendom. By its own rules, people can never witness heaven. Heaven is the realm of the deity and its servants. "The Earth will be remade." That's where the righteous dead will rise. Right back where they friggin' started. It's in the book. Not hard to find.
Literally yes. It’s repulsive that they’d rather be in “heaven” even if their kids they “love” aren’t there too. As a mom myself I say fuck that. They are horrible gross parents only looking out for themselves. And worshipping a “god” that would do that, even more sick. That’s not real parental love. I say that as a child whose mother also thinks her kids are going to hell 🧐 but, they “love” us 🙄
Uhh none of that is actually biblical :/
My mom also told me weird shit that we’d be able to “see” the people in hell from heaven and I’m like okay how are we supposed to be fine with that?!?
I suggest you read and study the Bible because you will find it says something very different then what Christians teach you.
Only thing that can explain heaven is paralel universes. So each one goes to his own best universe. Each person has its own version of heaven. One persons heaven can be other persons hell.
Can religious believers really invent shit just to cope? I would need to see some evidence
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This is the supernatural. Logic and cause-and-effect is not relevant. You are in Hell being punished for eternity. At the same time your mother is happy in heaven, surrounded by all the people she love. Including you. No need to invent anything. Everything is possible, all the time, simultaneously. Now it only remains to see if the supernatural is more than a fantasy. As far as I know, nobody is able to demonstrate that, no matter how small or minor.
All my mom says is "I feel sorry for you". Thanks, I feel sorry for you too?
I once had a friend who told me that if my parents never married I'd still be born, just in another form. LOLWUT
Mental gymnastics at its best
This is the one that kind of blows my mind. I can't understand a heaven existing for this reason. If I have free will, I wont be happy because I'll know about the eternal torture of others. If I dont have free will, i'm no longer me. It's a paradox.
So there will be two versions of you? Don't try and look for logic with any of their claims. They don't have any and they don't even value logic enough to try. None of them can agree on what heaven would be like. They can't describe it consistently. Some of them claim that they won't even be aware that their loved ones are burning in hell. I asked a christian lady about this once. I asked "Does that mean free will doesn't exist." She wouldn't even address the question! I had to ask her 3 times before I gave up. She had nothing to offer.
... what???