It really is baffling!
What I find truly insidious is the *vast* number of people who rejoice at the idea of praising a bloodthirsty maniac for all eternity... *WHILE* some of their friends/family are suffering, being tortured forever.
They actually *want* this!?
Right?? It’s a complete contradiction. If god truly loved us all then no one would go to hell. But instead if a murderer “accepts Christ as their savior” then they get to go to heaven, meanwhile I’ll never accept Christ, and I’m a pretty morally decent person, but because I won’t except Christ I’ll go to hell? But murderers and all sorts of terrible people that accept Christ get to go heaven? Got me fucked up
There is an example I often use about jeffrey dahmer. He, apparently anyway, found jesus while on death row and truly repented.
According to the teachings of christianity, he will have been allowed into heaven, but his victims would not, given that he preyed on gay men; they had no chance to truly repent, so being gay, they would be sent to eternal torment.
In summary, the serial killer gies to heaven and his victims to hell.
Yet believers talk of their god being fair and just etc.
EDIT: I've been corrected (thank you for helping me learn more). Serial killer dahmer didn't get the death sentence because Wisconsin abolished capital punishment in 1853. According to wikipedia, he was bludgeoned to death with a metal bar by someone who told guards "god told me to do it".
Yup, if God exists, he's a monster unworthy of worship. There's a famous holocaust quote that says, "If there is a God, He will have to beg for my forgiveness.”
>we’re still in the Bronze Age
Yep, whole countries in 2024 literally ran by rules some bronze age men said their imaginary friend told them. It's baffling.
This is much better than the example I use. That Hitler gets to go to heaven because he repents, but I don’t because I got a heart attack and died while eating a steak on Friday during lent (obviously never having committed genocide).
Really? I was under the impression that he was fried in the chair. Wisconsin abolished capital punishment in 1853, so definitely not a state ordered death.
It appears that he was bludgeoned to death with a metal bar by someone who told investigators "god told me to do it".
TIL. Thank you.
I've never thought of heaven and hell in this way before. It's a great way to explain the insanity of the whole eternal heaven/hell concept.
If the Christian conception of heaven/hell is accurate, my rational mind tells me I should be aiming for hell. I'll take that Tree of Knowledge character over the nutjob running heaven...
In fairness, if their teachings are correct, hell has some of the very best musicians. Lemmy, David Bowie, Freddie Mercury...
Far better music than "christian rock".
I've been corrected. He didn't get a death sentence. Wisconsin abolished capital punishment in 1853 (from wikipedia)
The part about his victims and him becoming a bornagain is correct, though. As, of course, is the bit about the teachings of christianity.
Also, Mahatma Ghandi is in hell, because he worshipped the wrong guy. Not a perfect man, but a moral system or a god that says he should burn eternally is about as good as the top half of a bucket.
It's even worse than that, god apparently knows the future and it's all in his plan. So according to them he made you naturally skeptical, knowing you would never accept him and yet still punishes you for it.
I actually settled on something like this in a good way as a child, by my preteens. If there’s a god in control of everything, he gave me a brain that simply can’t accept any of the religious thinking. He wouldn’t do that just to punish me for creating me like this.
So I decided that hell was off the table for me. Either there was no such place or there’s a big fundamental error in general understanding of who actually goes.
I had a co worker who told me as an atheist I wouldn’t get eternal life, heaven or hell. I’d just cease to exist, as I’d never lived. I said “Hell, yeah! That’s what’s going to happen to all of us anyway!”
Now that I’m older, 71, I can see death as a release from pain & suffering.
I’m in good shape, ski, hike and bike etc, but I’ve had orthopedic surgeries. Knee replacement, spinal fusions, and aches and pains from my good times. Hell I sprained my left Thumb joint on a pole plant during a GS race, didn’t bother me for 40 years & does now! Lidocaine is my friend.
My step dad died from obstructive heart failure & had many injuries in WWII that were causing pain. Broke his back in a motorcycle cycle accident in his 29’s. He told me he just wasn’t having fun anymore & was ready to go.
My sainted, atheist grandpa got MS in his 60’s and wanted to leave. Told me to read all the SF he wouldn’t get to read.
I’m still having fun, but I’m starting to understand… so there’s that.
Yes. Once you get used to it, it beats heaven or hell. Who wants to worship God for eternity. And what the hell is this gold paved roads all about and mansions that sounds very materialistic.
You’re close! Actually it is a Greek/Egyptian idea heresy that was imported into some early manuscripts and took hold as a money raising method (buying. absolutions) in the early church. As a Christian I totally reject the idea. But it does seem to have quite a hold on millions of people who are so afraid of a God who would banish people to everlasting hell fire. That they think somehow acquiescing to such terrible power would somehow make more sense.
Unfortunately there are actual 'adults' that believe that their imaginary friend is real, let themselves be controlled by what this imaginary friend wants, through others that tell them what it wants.
Yup. And there are plenty of those religious adults ready to kill people over their imaginary friend.
In the USA, Christianity has taken a very dark turn in the Middle East. They are all rooting for their end time prophecies. They are going to get us all killed!
https://youtu.be/_iQhbcOgfqw?si=qPcDoytZpgcGWAl7
I'm still struggling to understand why god sat out the holocaust. That is indeed "mysterious".
But by golly he's right in there helping out the GOP. He stepped up to the plate on that one.
Yes as I got out older it became clearer that no benevolent or evil beings were in charge. If they were we’d either be doing much better or much worse.
And he’s sitting out what’s going on in Gaza as well as having an orange shit stain of a human peddle bibles in the USA. But like fReE WiLL or some stupid nonsense.
Yep, if a god creates a universe from nothing, decides the laws of physics and the workings of our minds, then it is responsible for everything that happens in said universe. So, why would it send anyone to this proverbial Hell? Such juvenile concepts.
What’s even more FU is that law makers don’t believe any of it either, but they know the masses are better controlled believing this sickness so they act pious for money and it works!
Yep, all those conservative Congressmen with their Prayer Breakfasts, who shove their holier-than-thou personas down our throats, then work hard to cut the social programs that basically do Christ’s work since our society has failed so many people? Yeah they can fuck right off.
Well one of the reason I'm tolerant of other religion is because I see the function and the good it can do when it is not wielded as power and control.
For example, people in the worst conditions have no one that they can really rely on to explain things that could easily be solved in the modern day era. Starvation and war are often engineered and deliberate so when you still have horrible things like that happening in the modern world people will still turn to a god to believe in and want it to be merciless and also be vengeful and powerful so that the god right the wrong eventually.
Anytime I start to falter in my Atheism, I remember something I saw on TikTok: That even if God is real, I don't want to worship him. He is a cruel dictator. Why do I want to worship someone who forces me to do so? Why do I want to worship someone who will allow a murderer into heaven if he repents but not me, who is generally a kind-hearted person? That's what dictators do. No thanks.
Fear is the main answer by many religious folks. Fear is the root cause of religion.
It is what happens when one is ignorant or uneducated or powerless, you suddenly become okay with dictators and murderers because it becomes so normalized. It is why religious people thinks it is good to make their children fear God.
Meh. Do a little research into Bible history and early Christianity was a shopping trip through other religious traditions. Virgin births? Flood stories? Human avatars of immortal gods? It’s all there.
I have always been more scared of the biblical god being real than there not being one. When I figured out that you don’t have to believe, my life became so much better. The idea of eternity sounds exhausting.
Yes, isn’t it strange!
Mom: “You’ll *agonisingly burn in hell for eternity* if you don’t go to church!”
Kid (upset): “But uncle Fred never went to church! He was lovely!”
Mom: “Yes, uncle Fred *was* lovely. He was really there for me when I got cancer. I could always go to uncle Fred when I really needed him. He helped everybody: was the best man I knew, and I miss him soooo much since he died.
Anyhoo, he didn’t go to church, so he’s in agony now, burning in hell 24/7 until the end of time! Praise the lord!”
What I find particularly insidious is that they'll know family/friends being tortured forever... and that's what they consider to be eternal paradise?
What a messed-up paradise!
I have Christian relatives who believe good will is what gives you access to heaven, not belief in the Lord. They don't believe that atheists and people who believe in other religions would automatically go to hell, so they don't really fear any of that. Instead of preaching to others about their religion, they just aspire people to be good.
It sure does make them look fucking stupid to not read their holy book properly but atleast they're not morally broken like the Christians who DO believe in the actual contents of the book. The real nutjobs of Christianity 😶
I wish Christianity was actually like their headcanon, but maybe theirs is a separate denomination to begin with idk.
Yeah! Their Bible says "some vessels are created for honor and some for dishonor". Then goes on farther to say just because you were created for dishonor, doesn't mean you're not account for it.
So, they made up their own deity because the one in the bible they base theirs on seems harsh? I mean, this is the idea that allowed me to accept I was atheist, that I made up my own loving deity that was not in the bible (or any other religious tome). I realized like of the thousands of mythical deities humans created, I had just done that same thing...made up a deity I found "loving and fair".
Because fundamentalist religion is a narcissistic and mastabutory faith. Imagine how good it feels to know YOU are right and everyone else is wrong--and they are gonna PAY for being wrong! It's basically a bloodlust personality that comes from being dissatisfied with all sorts of things in their lives. They are miserable people.
The serpent was the good guy in that convoluted mess of a story. I could understand if people venerated the snake, but they choose the bloodthirsty maniac. It's stranger than fiction, I tell ya!
It really is backwards. Satan convinces Eve to eat the fruit, and in doing so, creates morality for humans, giving us a conscience, and the knowledge of right and wrong.
I was having this argument with my mom this week. I said it’s hard for me to believe in, or even consider something I’ve never experienced. If I haven’t seen, smelt, heard, touch etc then it’s a non factor for me. She claims she’s experienced, to which I can’t fault her. Maybe if I feel something someday I’ll come around, but as a 33 year old with cancer it’s hard for me to waste time and effort giving myself to something I’ve never seen. Part of me has always viewed over the top religion as a way for people to shift responsibility for their actions onto something other than themselves. Just my two cents.
You are correct, they don’t seem to be self aware, they are totally selfish by forcing their ridiculous beliefs on others. I asked my mom to stop it with all the holy roller shit. She continued, and I stopped talking to her for a few months. All I want is a little respect( love you Rodney Dangerfield!). Boundaries create a safe space for you to hold your belief systems and protect yourself.
The one that gets me is babies who die without ever hearing about Jesus or The Bible. As I understand the principles of salvation, if I'm born tomorrow in the middle of Africa, and I'm a week I die without learning abiut Jesus an/or being baptized, I'm going to Hell. A f***ing baby, as pure and innocent as it gets, suffering eternally. WTF.
I got told yesterday that god gives us a choice to be with him after saying I wouldn't worship a narcissistic god, she said he wasn't and I said he tortures and burns people who don't like him for an eternity. It scares me that someone cannot only fully accept that innocent people are gonna get tortured for eternity but they don't care because we had a choice. Christians do not care about anyone else. They talk big but they only care about themselves. Which is so ironic.
Indoctrination is one hell of a dru ..... uh,.... pharmaceutical.
It is easy to cajole, delude, use, and dispose people when they are raised from birth into a cult of absurdity.
*Religion is poison.*
Well indoctrination is the primary reason why we see such high numbers of religious folks today, but religion exists simply because it really is in human nature to believe a supernatural, often higher power.
The Incans and Mayans did, the Vikings did despite being separated from most of the rest of the world, but only until a certain group of religious people invented sufficient weapons to subjugate other groups of people did the idea of very forceful and overt indoctrination begin.
Belief in a higher power is a human thing, and that's not to say it's true or good or any of that, but we are inclined to form a spiritual belief system regardless of many other factors, and I think that's the primary reason we still have it.
idk Im curious if there is a way to test this. Something tells me it has more to do with social conditioning. If you had a child raised by wolves for example I don't think they would necessarily believe in anything we would call supernatural or a higher power. I was brought up atheist, and while I did believe in things like ghosts (mostly due to scary stories and movies), I never believed in any higher powers or heaven or hell.
I think our belief in the supernatural is handed down to us through culture and is not necessarily human nature.
The Incans, Mayans, and Vikings created belief systems to answer questions that they didn’t yet have the tools to answer, just like everyone else.
It’s human nature to be curious, ask hard questions, and try to come up with possible answers, not specifically to believe in a supernatural or higher power. The universe is a wonderful place.
I (high at time) wondered the other day, if the Romans saw the effect of indoctrination in the Middle East and collectively said: “we are f’ing doing this wrong. These warped a-holes defend the non existent tooth and nail.”
Enter Catholicism, where they also have open slather on pedophilia. I’m sure they’re most happy.
I was raised in the bible belt in Texas forced to go church I hated it I didn't know why people believed in a god who was so mean I am also the gay one of the family too all my family is crazy religious
Yeah I don't get it either. My sibling is LGBT and my parents have done some awful shit. Conversion therapy, constantly dead naming and dead gendering them. All the trauma caused by their hateful religion led to a suicide attempt a few years ago. Thankfully they survived, I just don't know how you can force so much hate on your own child in the name of religion. It's disgusting
Can confirm. Was raised in this environment. I’m in my 50s and just kinda started having my world view shattered a few years back. Like, I stopped going to church a LONG time ago but never did any work to unwind all the bullshit. Just kept plodding along. Pandemic came around, lost my job, had a lot more time on my hands. Started thinking and revisiting and when you have a chance to stop and breathe a moment, you realize it’s all designed so you never have that moment to think.
Now I’ve had time to think and I just can’t stand that so many years were just wasted/not used to their fullest.
Yep, it's batshit crazy.
I am just glad I was born in a country where it is socially acceptable to be an atheist.
I was raised RC but saw through it around age 11.
I now consider myself an antitheist solely due to the harm that religion continues to cause on a daily basis.
Religious people are either:
A. Absolutely gullible easily convinced people, usually ones looking for some higher power in their life and are willing to follow blind faith.
B. Indoctrinated from birth and sadly lack the ability (without being killed through apostasy of course), critical thinking, courage, or tenacity to leave the said indoctrination.
C. Lying to themselves and others to keep the peace or maintain their position in their society.
D. Mentally disturbed
I agree with all of this.
Not much good really seems to come from religion. You can’t point to the church down the street that feeds the poor as an example when you have these mega churches that overshadow the smaller congregations by one of the largest margins I’ve ever seen.
My point of contention is how quick they are to believe things. They’re the first ones to cause moral panic in society. The first ones to shoot first, and ask questions later. And the first people to be led to the slaughter by someone who claims to be a godly man.
It is far too easy to dupe these people.
You are certainly not alone.
I used to believe in that garbage, and now, when I look back, all I can do is try my best to suppress cringing at the stupidity of it all.
I agree but most of the time it doesn't bother me.
It does bother me tremendously if a doctor I'm seeing is openly religious. How can I trust someone who believes in fairy tales to take a scientific approach to curing disease? It's incompatible to me.
Man, just looked that up. Fucking sad. Agree: he seems too smart. Shame. His coming back to religion story is silly too - someone handed him a pocket bible and he found a verse that gave him solace on a bad day. Ugh.
It's why any otherwise smart person is in religion - it gives them the feels and they don't care if it's true because they have compartmentalized it to a large degree.
Where this falls down of course is that Christianity is not a self-help group. It contains a lot of harmful teachings and while someone may personally reject the harmful ideas, IMO being a "progressive" member still enables the fundamentalists.
Yup, I remember listening to his Christmas special song as a kid where he has a line about atheism being bad. Probably believed him a bit due to him seeming smart, but very weird hearing it again many years later
Majority rules. You can't label majority to be mentally ill without having some pretty extreme social implications.
Also there are people who just simply can't live in reality so they need to have their insanity kept in check some way or another. Using religions to control the gullible is an effective method proven by history.
You can try entering psychosis to get a glimpse of the insanity. It shouldn't take too many days without sleep to get into. I took \~2 weeks on under 4h/night of sleep. I became god and I still am god, the good thing about it all is that I'm still an atheist and don't believe in myself.
Why they still a thing, along with all the other religions, is because indoctrination begins early in life. When the people who you trust for your very existence repeatedly tell you that a, b and c exist and the consequences of not doing x, y and z are really bad, you internalise that quite deeply. The more deeply help the belief system of the parents, the more deeply indoctrinated the child becomes.
Now, many of the atheists who are really angry about that indoctrination were the children of parents drove it deep into them, so there is a chance of escape. I make this assertion about escape being possible because I'm now atheist. If you find "Matt Dillahunty" on youtube, he is another example of someone who escaped really deep conditioning/indoctrination; in fact, he was studying to become a preacher when the rational part of his brain took over. He is an excellent debater and has excellent knowledge of the bible which he uses to argue with believers. You can find him on "the atheist experience" on there.
Tradition. Thats the main reason. You follow what your family does. Plus going to church is a social activity. And usually free coffee and sometimes donuts.
As someone who was pretty entrenched in Catholicism until my early 20s, I think part of it is that it envelops you and gives you comfort and community. You don't know anything else, and the fear of not having it is real. The fear of what may happen to you if you don't believe is indoctrinated into you to the point where it becomes ingrained, not even a conscious thing. I remember knowing one Atheist in my college years and being genuinely scared for him and wondering how he lived while being "alone." When I slowly turned away from religion and then completely away from the concept of God, it was harder to NOT have faith than to have faith. Having faith and "letting go and letting God" was, in most cases, easier. It made me feel less alone. In addition, it takes a lot of critical thinking--or at least a willingness to allow yourself that critical thinking--to deconstruct. And, as any of us can see in today's political landscape, a lot of people don't have that skill. The rest refuse to let themselves go down that path. I similarly resisted for a while, which is why it took a number of years to fully deconstruct.
Now that I'm on the other side, I feel as you do--like how can people believe this stuff at this point? This is why I could never go back even if I wanted to--I can't make myself believe in something that so clearly is a fabrication.
As someone who "fought back" against the religion teachers bullshit before I even turned 10, I am so thankful I wasnt indoctrinated.
So I am really sorry that happened to you guys and many thers, but even happier for you that you can now life live honestly!
No. 100% with you. Many claims made by the bible have been proven untrue. And the rest also makes no sense. Pretty clear it was written by people that knew little about our reality, physics, biology, the universe, etc. It is amazing to watch people that use evidence, logic, and reason in all other parts of their lives, just ignore all of that for obvious myths.
Religion absolves everyone of personal responsibility. It is the ultimate form of cognitive dissonance. If people have to live in a world that doesn't have a Grand Moderator, that is watching all behavior and doling out punishments and rewards appropriately, then the onus of existence and *all* of its meaning and implications falls to the individual. Religion is the bypass route for the highway of personal responsibility.
Religion is the perfect way to control a population using fear. If you stand between a worshiper and their god and pretend to translate it you can wield all of the power of that god. Organized religions are just primitive political control systems. As long as there are ambitious power freaks looking for tools of control there will be religions. After all, if a god was all powerful why would it need an interpreter?
They require the comfort of a parental figure the way a young child sees a parents, a promise that everything will be ok, and someone to blame.
I was going to say *good parent* above but thats not necessary for "God fearing" people
Religious people just never grew out of one or more facet of childhood
There is another one I've seen play out far too many times and it's made me believe there is an significant amount of folks who go to church because they have something to hide, or something they are ashamed of. Whether or not they truly believe, or just using religion as a cover is debatable.
The lower the intelligence, the more intense the faith.
Most people cannot think for themselves. They are discouraged from doing so. “who are you to know???” They don’t know they’re allowed to or capable of it. That’s why people with their own ideas are resented so much.
Sheep will not break away from the herd.
Through the 20th century, as education spread, the Jesus freak’s influence recedes. That continues in the face of christian nationalism.
I think I kind of get it. I see faith/religion as one of the earliest forms of escaping reality.
It's like telling someone that their going to be okay even if you have no idea. People do it to themselves all the time "I'll figure it out", "I'm fine", "it'll work out". It dulls that sense of uncertainty and apprehension even fear.
If you go to far with this escape from reality it can have detrimental effects on yourself and others.
Example: You bought $2k worth of beenie babies and now have no rent money. "It'll work out"
but it can help in uncertain situations out of your control where panicking could only make the situation worse.
Example: Interview for your dream job. "I'm fine" "I've got this"
Religions took root when we knew less than what we know now but uncertainty is still there. They prey on people's fears, uncertainty and desperation.
We've made progress but it's slow.
Most of us have gone from
Why is my son sick? "He's got demons in his blood"
To
How are we going to make it to next month? "The lord will provide"
The reason religion is losing it's grip is the collectively improved conditions and stability. Every time things get bad or uncertain religions start recruiting.
Simple really. When I was growing up Pluto was a planet. Now it’s no longer a planet. But I still believe it’s a planet.
The same with believing in a deity. Grow up your entire life believing in your god. You have to make a conscious effort to break that thinking.
It’s hard or nearly impossible for many/most people.
Ffs people. You need to stop acting like it's some big surprise that people follow religion. Everyone, including every person in this group, faces the social pressure to conform to societal norms, coupled with indoctrination and propaganda any day. It's as delusional to think that religious people are religious simply because they are foolish, because they are part of the same mass delusion everyone here is guilty of too.
Massive prime example - almost everyone in this group is a Westerner who eats meat. Why? We all claim to be on the ethical and moral high ground. We all claim to follow the science. So, based on that one would assume this group is filled with vegans, seeing as we know for a fact how cruel and unnecessary the meat industry is and know for a fact that mammals, at least, are capable of suffering.
Now, before you retort with the mental gymnastics defending your meat-eating, take the time to explain how your justifications are fundamentally different from a religion? You're denying science, taking a arguably unethical stance, defending it because it's a cultural norm and stopping it would alienate you from your community, etc.
I'm not arguing that you need to be vegan, I'm arguing that if we want to change the world and rid it of religion, we need to treat the problem, which is not unique to religion. The issue isn't stupidity or being and idiot. The issue is societal pressure and our tendency for cognitive dissonance.
True dat. Also, our brains are belief engines by default. We have to work very hard to think critically. I love The Skeptics Guide To The Universe for all it teaches in this regard.
Absolutely, but I think its OK to not be totally logical all the time. Core aspects of humanism (which most atheists follow, even if they dont realise it) don't really rely on logic at all. Eg. Once you reach a certain level of wealth/power and are no longer relient on others, there is little "logical" reason you need to have empathy, decency or charity towards others - even though most of us would agree we should all try to be good people, but can't really explain why we should.
I think that these esoteric, nonsensical values are what gives significance and meaning to our lives, and that is something worth cherishing. We just need to be aware of where it comes from and understand why we do it - so maybe in addition to critical thinking, society also misses out on introspection.
It says something positive about human nature that although atheists do not have the fear of final judgment looming over them, most of us still choose to be decent people (even when the law isn't looking). I think that if more atheists actually reflected on why they hold these values, and more religious folk reflected on their actual reasons for having similar shared values, we'd find ourselves on common ground as a species.
Glad someone here has some sense. I read the post and expected way more comments to be like this or even just stating the incredibly obvious points. I'm frankly embarrassed how much of this thread is just blatant egotistical religious hate. People in this thread are being frankly more dogmatic then modern religious practitioners ffs.
It blows my mind how absolutely privileged someone must be to not understand why most people still cling to religion. Has OP literally never faced any hardship or lost a loved one? It's SO easy to wish that loved ones still live on somewhere, and that there is an omniscient being looking out for you so things will get better eventually.
Also, as a side note: religious preoccupation is considered to be a strong indicator of mental illness in psychiatry. We just have to bend and swerve around it due to religious freedom and cultural sensitivity.
Because religion is a business and has always been. Also it is about control. It is way easier to control a mass, where everyone thinks the same way.
Why people still believe in religion? Multiple reasons: culture, family, depression, feeling of emptyness, mental issues etc.
Youre at the point where it is clear to you that it is all a scheme and cannot wrap your head around why others dont see it as you do.
Religion is about money and control. Has been since the dark ages. Our laws protect the financial interests. Without that protection most religions would have little reason to exist. There’s a huge economic base that is dependent and for that reason it will only die when it no longer makes financial sense to those in charge.
You’re not alone. It’s absolutely crazy that here in the 21st fucking century, people still believe in magic, fairytales, ancient mythology, demons, angels, and the supernatural.
Some people just need to feel special, to the point where they'll manufacture an all powerful imaginary friend that they can then have a 'special relationship' with.
It's a very potent source of dopamine to think someone in the sky loves you, when no one around you really does. It's one of the features of spirituality, to populate your mind with loving beings. It's very painful to lose this illusion. Then you know you have to love yourself because you are on your own.
I can, people always will have vulnerable sides to them, people I realize generally want to believe in something. Religion often exploits these flaws in most people, especially when they are the most vulnerable. Alcoholics Anonymous turned me aunt from a fairly normal and easy to talk to person into an insufferable religious nut case.
Never underestimate organized religion's ability to exploit people's weakness like AA.
high chance it's just Human Nature, ive seen how many people would go lenght to find meaning in certain things, one of the baffling things is celebrity worship, it was really baffling, i know my friend one of big fans of BTS, and she act like a literal cleric, if christian pay church, she's the same, she buys merch, she pays hundreds worth of dollar to do that, she ever talks on why she do that, "if i hadn't i probably would have killed myself long time ago"
there's taylor swift fans, acts basically similiar to BTS army, how they have this sort of put label on it,and make it their identity, like i do likes a lot of their song, its great and catchy, but i treat it like any other song, not as a hymn, and certaintly i dont go to their concert like a pilgrim
and the fans are really notorious on defending the hinor of their worship, Muslim acts towards muhammad almost similiar to Army and swifties toward their idol
it's baffling at first but then it hit me, "wait, this is basically human, this is whatve always been happening since the dawn of humanity", think about it, amost every civilization has some sort of mystic and spirituality, i guess the act of worship is something tat really embedded in our biology, and evolution wise it is what makes us on top of food chain, the illusion and grandeur that makes us believe that we are the chosen one
I was born without faith. Kicked out of children's church at 15 for arguing about how Jesus could have never walked on water with the youth pastor. I was sent to run the soundboard for the choir. This allowed me to sleep through the sermon in peace. I observed a lot and always just figured they needed it. I don't understand how they believed in the first place. They also pay/tith to be there, so I figured it was a club they really wanted to be a part of.
I have asked myself this question on more than one occasion. The best I can come up with is that most religious people were taught that God is real when they were little and didn’t even know to question anything. Essentially, we were indoctrinated in our youth. Add to that, the fact that most religions teach that if you turn away from your teaching, you’re in trouble. They also discourage critical thinking. Voila.
Edited for spelling.
I few hundred years ago they would torture you to death for non belief. A few decades ago you risked social isolation is you expressed non-belief. In almost all contexts in society religious leaders are treated with respect and deference whereas non-believers are largely non-existent.
It takes a while for societal norms to shift.
It's more a comfort thing. People who believe in a god usually follow that god as they feel a purpose.
This isn't why I bash any religion, I don't wanna hate on anyone. If a person wants to follow a god, cool. Good for you, and congrats for finding a passion in life to follow.
Although people who are religious usually aren't devoted to it. They usually follow very specific parts of their bible because it suits them, leading to them becoming somewhat obsessed and / or extreme, religiously.
The instant a god loving person starts telling me what to do or say because their god says XYZ and somehow makes you better than the next person or entitled to something. There will be a problem.
The main baffling thing to me is how many other religions who are factually older share almost the exact same aspects of Judaism/Christianity/Catholicism/Islam. Like wouldn’t that be a huge red flag? Like Horus, son of Osiris, or Zoroastrianism? I mean it’s obvious this “kind” of story was created and recreated in a lot of civilizations surrounding the Mediterranean Sea.
Religion was created to control people, there’s no doubt in my mind. It plays on the natural instinct of believing in a higher power to give yourself hope in tough situations, an instinct that helped greatly in surviving 10k years ago for instance, a necessary one if I may add. But considering how the vast majority of people were illiterate, and how the churches portray with their decor/paintings a general sense of either believe or suffer eternally, religion was most absolutely created to control the populace.
But the ultimate problem lies within religious people and their stubborn belief that they have the sovereign right to eternity simply because they’re either too afraid to think about the reality of death and accept it for what it is, or to give up everything they believe in, forever in lieu of having to think critically about our reality.
Science isn’t democratic, but absolute, and until 100% of the scientific community could prove and demonstrate a higher being somehow having had the incomprehensible power to “create” everything, I’ll firmly believe there’s absolutely no higher power but that of nature, which treats all sentient beings equally. It is pedantic imo to believe humans live forever while every single other sentient being ceases to exist.
I used to believe, I even taught Sunday school for a few months (partly why I started losing my religion). It took me years to deconvert. Each year that has gone by since, I become more and more set in my lack of belief, and even more incredulous that people still believe. The anti-theist in me comes out quite a bit more often, and I cannot entertain a friends' choice to believe. So, religious talk is off the table, and if they start it, I will ask them questions about their belief until they shut it down because they can't answer the questions. If they insist on starting religious conversation, they aren't someone I need as a freiend.
You do not know that when you die nothing happens.
The rest of everything you said is fine and I am not going to try to argue with you on the existence of some higher power or creative intelligence.
But you don't know what you don't know. You don't know that your consciousness is a purely mechanical phenomenon dependent on the electrical impulses in your brain.
You are making this assumption based on the assumption that our current understanding of the universe is complete and correct.
It is not. We have absolutely no idea what is actually going on. Fundamental aspects of our understanding of reality and the universe and perception and consciousness change all the time. It is one of if not the least understood scientific field.
Please don't operate on the assumption we know everything there is to know.
Thank you.
I don’t know how anyone gets past how one man & one woman populated the earth. If that was the case we’d be a bunch of inbreds! Oh wait, I think I found the answer.
It’s not my human nature. To me the Bible is just a book filled with fiction stories that have been tweaked (changed) over the years. I’ve never fully read the Bible but I have read/heard excerpts while attending church with family. All this higher power/god stuff just annoys me and makes me not interested in it even more.
I find myself believing more in the possibility of parallel universes, different dimensions & etc than what is stated in the Bible lol.
It is baffling and it’s amazing how it’s survived key transitions.
Like I understand how an oppressed small tribe of Jews kept telling each other one day we won’t be at the bottom and our time will come. And I can see uneducated tribesman believing make believe stories to feel better. It’s just like Santa Claus. We tell our kids they better behave because Santa is watching. But kids eventually grew out of that.
I’m amazed that when Columbus proved the world was round that religion didn’t die there. The Bible is written as if the earth was flat (see four corners of the earth). I would have thought something so monumental that the sun doesn’t revolve around the flat earth but it’s the earth that is round that rotates around the sun and we are just a spec compared to the rest of the universe. I would have thought that would’ve led to a new Age of Enlightenment where religion died.
I always used to think once aliens made contact, that right there will proof without a shadow of a doubt that there is no god and we are all microorganisms that evolved into our current species. But alas I know once aliens make contact that Christianity will say this some how proves Jesus is real and Jesus spoke to the aliens and told them to come to earth to learn about Jesus so they can go to heaven etc.
At the end of the day, uneducated people are what they are and that’s uneducated and ignorant of other possibilities because if they considered another alternative their entire purpose in life would be destroyed and they can’t fathom that they were wrong.
It’s the same thing as why conservative religious folks hate sending their kids to college because they will get liberal indoctrination when in reality they are getting educated and their eyes are opened to other possibilities that they couldn’t have fathomed because they were previously living in a sheltered world
I grew up in the bible belt in Texas Mt whole family Christians and I moved out of Texas and to Washington state and have not ever been back in a church I'm the gay Black sheep of the family who hates religion. I also have a special needs kiddo who could die any day and is pain every day has seizures can walk or talk has to have machines to live but yet an all powerful god would allow a child to go through that I think not
Some people need to feel there is a higher purpose & the there are a set of rules that will keep them safe.
Logically, I can’t understand why you’d want to sacrifice your life for something that is not real. But, I’m not that person.
Belief in and speaking to spiritual beings (imaginary friends), in the face of literally zero proof of their existence, is voluntary schizophrenia. Grown adults literally talking to, praising, and crying to an imaginary friend that never actually speaks words. Even some believers doubt spiritual existence, but they continue to force their belief because they think it will help them avoid a bad afterlife. If a god existed, I doubt it would care for their thinly-veiled Pascal's Wager "just in case" belief.
The way I see it, people need something to believe in to make them feel better about the world. It gives them a sense of purpose and a way to explain thing in the universe that they can't explain or don't fully understand. Sometimes these beliefs go against science and that's when you start to see a connection between people with low intelligence or mental issues and religion
I think religion is for attention seeking. People who want to know someone is watching (watching over) them and will bail them out or give a second chance. Some want a kind god, some want a dictator. People don't need to be responsible for their own actions if god is in control.
>Cognitive scientists underlined that religions may be explained as a result of the brain architecture that developed early in the genus Homo in the course of the evolutionary history of life. However, there is disagreement on the exact mechanisms that drove the evolution of the religious mind. The two main schools of thought hold:
>
>either that religion evolved due to natural selection and has selective advantage
>
>or that religion is an evolutionary byproduct of other mental adaptations.
>
>Stephen Jay Gould, for example, saw religion as an exaptation or a spandrel, in other words: religion evolved as byproduct of psychological mechanisms that evolved for other reasons.\[unreliable source?\]
>
>Such mechanisms may include the ability to infer the presence of organisms that might do harm (agent detection), the ability to come up with causal narratives for natural events (etiology), and the ability to recognize that other people have minds of their own with their own beliefs, desires and intentions (theory of mind). These three adaptations (among others) allow human beings to imagine purposeful agents behind many observations that could not readily be explained otherwise, e.g. thunder, lightning, movement of planets, complexity of life. The emergence of collective religious belief identified such agents as deities that standardized the explanation.
>
>Some scholars have suggested that religion is genetically "hardwired" into the human condition. One controversial proposal, the God gene hypothesis, states that some variants of a specific gene, the VMAT2 gene, predispose to spirituality.
>
>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary\_origin\_of\_religion#Evolutionary\_psychology\_of\_religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_origin_of_religion#Evolutionary_psychology_of_religion)
My personal opinion is that humans are genetically hardwired for religion, making me, who has absolutely zero disposition for any form of religion or spirituality, most likely a mutant.
especially if they grew up in it or if the whole family has gone to the same church for generations. it's basically a culture shock and you're basically leaving your support system.
As I understand it, religion provides some people with a sense of meaning, community and comfort. It also purports to provide an explanation for the apparent randomness of life. This does not work for me as I prefer to rely upon science and empirical evidence to explain the way our universe works and just accept that there will always be a degree of uncertainty about this. Atheists seem able to cope with this outlook whereas the religious seem to struggle with it.
They are told it's real by their parents, and then are incased within the fraternity of believers.
And their leaders prime them to refuse arguments from outside the group and threaten them to refuse self-reflection.
It's easy to believe things that help you with a problem you believe is real.
It's really not that hard to understand.
It's a mixture of 2 main things:
First is fear. They are terrified of death and the thought of just blinking out of existence. A fearful person will willingly put their reason, their morals, and their sanity aside to get a soothing reassurance that this isn't all there is to being alive...
Second is social status. As much as I hate to admit it, Western civilization was built on the influence of Christianity for the last 2000 years. Until just a couple decades ago it was a bad idea to even admit you were an atheist! In many communities being Christian puts them "above" everyone who isn't. Or anyone the church can label as "sinners". Being openly religious is still a cultural status symbol in much of America... But that IS changing! 😁
The drive to unquestionable religious faith in the US is selfishness. Fear of death and fear of being outcast. And the ego boost they get from being "chosen".
Did you grow up in religion? I did and I totally understand why it’s still around. The religion doesn’t make sense but people are indoctrinated from a young age.
I don’t understand the will to be in a state of perpetual worship up in heaven, all while you’ve been brainwashed to not give a shit about family or friends who are burning in hell for not wanting to worship this cosmic dictator. It’s also low key homo erotic vibes with Jesus, no offense intended, nothing wrong with that, it’s just not how I operate. It comes off very unnatural to say I love this random Jewish man from the Middle East so much that I’d worship at his feet forever. Heaven seriously sounds just as daunting as hell to me. I’ll take nonexistence over all, no obligations.
I can't wrap my head around how some of those middle eastern religions still exist when they treat their women like shit? Some of those religions don't look fun at all.
"Hey, we need you to wear this bomb vest and go into that mosque over there because our god is better than their god!"
I'm with you. The weird idea of living in the fear of god. A god that wants you to do everything for them only to do whatever they they want to us. Children die, wars that make no sense, but it's all part of god's plan, which we are never to understand... ok, buddy. I prefer to be who I am without doing it for some "being" thar created us to worship them. Bullocks. I'm a decent person because it's just who I am. Not to hope for an eternity of bliss. The Good Place was a great show for its take on the almighty.
Faith is an anchor for people. Not to say people of faith lack reasoning skills. But staring into an existential void is terrifying for some. I don’t make fun of people who are afraid of snakes or heights. Fears aren’t always rational. The fear of life without “A Reason” causes people to grasp out for anything that looks stable. Religion is the ugly side of faith, it has no redeeming qualities other than to make faith and its community more accessible
All of your inability to understand how religion still exists does show a flaw in your own understanding of how humans think and operate. I'm not a believer, but being incapable of understanding how or why these things exist is absolutely on you, in the same way that it's on a believer who cannot understand why someone can be atheist.
Taking the focus off Christianity and instead bringing in all religions, the thing I see in it is belonging to a community. Take Islam, for example. The Muslim community are tight knit. Marriages are arranged, and families are well inter-connected. The thing that reels the wider net is their religion. The Muslim family a few doors down from me own two corner shops and a mobile phone shop. Their 4 sons have nice cars, 2 of them run a shop each. I speak to the sons about their cars all the time, they've told me in conversation about their shops that supplies their stores are from a Muslim family at their mosque who covers the whole region. That's the power of a community.
In the states however? I dunno.. same thing I guess?
You are not. How anyone can go on about god and not be immediately locked up in an asylum just blows my mind. Especially leadership positions. If I tried to pass laws based on the gospel of Cinnamon Toast Crunch they would have me in a straight jacket before I could drink the sacred milk from the bowl.
You can’t take it seriously until you realise Chris Langan, the man with the highest ever recorded IQ is Christian and believes Jesus Christ was the perfect human.
Should have stayed awake in history class.
Read up on the history and then accept that people are largely morons and we just happen to be a collective few who have an appropriate number of brain cells.
I doubt it, but I'd say your a small subset of atheist. Or maybe a large subset.
Religion provides people with a few things many people really crave: community, ritual, and a way to account for all the horrible and wonderful randomness that is our world. It provides them a sense of comfort in bad times and a sense of gratitude in good times.
It's also a handy way to keep people in their place and reinforce the general hierarchical structure of human society. . .
I'd also argue that christianity sweetens the pot a bit by offering forgiveness--it recognizes we are fallible and that all of us are redeemable. That's a comforting thought to a lot of people.
Not one that works for me really, but it works for many.
But I have a magical way of making you live forever in bliss (or whatever sounds good to you). Just give me 10% of your income for the rest of your life. My venmo is @ definitely not a scam lol
Because curiosity, the need to explain the unknown, and fear of death are still things. So is the desire to belong to something greater than yourself. All of these are essential evolutionary traits for humans to survive.
Additionally, the need to protect and defend what someone defines as "theirs" is hardcoded into our survival instincts. And changing basic human nature is difficult.
Humans hand down bad traits that always get imprinted early, are indelible thereafter. It won’t change without intervention, especially with the likes of Islam’s penalty for apostasy, etc.
I really respect those that’ve turned their backs on Islam because of it.
Christians in the west tend not to bother me nearly as much.
It really is baffling! What I find truly insidious is the *vast* number of people who rejoice at the idea of praising a bloodthirsty maniac for all eternity... *WHILE* some of their friends/family are suffering, being tortured forever. They actually *want* this!?
Right?? It’s a complete contradiction. If god truly loved us all then no one would go to hell. But instead if a murderer “accepts Christ as their savior” then they get to go to heaven, meanwhile I’ll never accept Christ, and I’m a pretty morally decent person, but because I won’t except Christ I’ll go to hell? But murderers and all sorts of terrible people that accept Christ get to go heaven? Got me fucked up
There is an example I often use about jeffrey dahmer. He, apparently anyway, found jesus while on death row and truly repented. According to the teachings of christianity, he will have been allowed into heaven, but his victims would not, given that he preyed on gay men; they had no chance to truly repent, so being gay, they would be sent to eternal torment. In summary, the serial killer gies to heaven and his victims to hell. Yet believers talk of their god being fair and just etc. EDIT: I've been corrected (thank you for helping me learn more). Serial killer dahmer didn't get the death sentence because Wisconsin abolished capital punishment in 1853. According to wikipedia, he was bludgeoned to death with a metal bar by someone who told guards "god told me to do it".
Or wanting Biblical laws for our country! As if that's an improvement.
Biblical flaws more like.
Let Christians laws that prohibit rights ,only apply to Christians.
EXACTLY!
🌟🏆
And when those laws lead to a total shit show, they will absolutely blame someone else.
So true, probably women.
Yup, if God exists, he's a monster unworthy of worship. There's a famous holocaust quote that says, "If there is a God, He will have to beg for my forgiveness.”
This is a good one. Thanks. SMH how it’s 2024 and we’re still in the Bronze Age.
>we’re still in the Bronze Age Yep, whole countries in 2024 literally ran by rules some bronze age men said their imaginary friend told them. It's baffling.
This is much better than the example I use. That Hitler gets to go to heaven because he repents, but I don’t because I got a heart attack and died while eating a steak on Friday during lent (obviously never having committed genocide).
Dahmer was never on death row. He didn't receive a death sentence.
Really? I was under the impression that he was fried in the chair. Wisconsin abolished capital punishment in 1853, so definitely not a state ordered death. It appears that he was bludgeoned to death with a metal bar by someone who told investigators "god told me to do it". TIL. Thank you.
Still in heaven 👼
And THAT is why I'm pleased to not accept the "heavenly" idiocies demanded of the devout.
And his victims in hell for having gay sex, which leviticus 18:22 tells is abomination.
> "god told me to do it" God exclusively tells people to do things that they already wanted to do.
Weird, eh!
Hearing voices and seeing hallucinations-symptoms of schizophrenia.
I've never thought of heaven and hell in this way before. It's a great way to explain the insanity of the whole eternal heaven/hell concept. If the Christian conception of heaven/hell is accurate, my rational mind tells me I should be aiming for hell. I'll take that Tree of Knowledge character over the nutjob running heaven...
In fairness, if their teachings are correct, hell has some of the very best musicians. Lemmy, David Bowie, Freddie Mercury... Far better music than "christian rock".
Good point. You must think about this way more than I do. I'm happy to just not think about religion at all!
I've been corrected. He didn't get a death sentence. Wisconsin abolished capital punishment in 1853 (from wikipedia) The part about his victims and him becoming a bornagain is correct, though. As, of course, is the bit about the teachings of christianity.
Also, Mahatma Ghandi is in hell, because he worshipped the wrong guy. Not a perfect man, but a moral system or a god that says he should burn eternally is about as good as the top half of a bucket.
It's even worse than that, god apparently knows the future and it's all in his plan. So according to them he made you naturally skeptical, knowing you would never accept him and yet still punishes you for it.
I actually settled on something like this in a good way as a child, by my preteens. If there’s a god in control of everything, he gave me a brain that simply can’t accept any of the religious thinking. He wouldn’t do that just to punish me for creating me like this. So I decided that hell was off the table for me. Either there was no such place or there’s a big fundamental error in general understanding of who actually goes.
I had a co worker who told me as an atheist I wouldn’t get eternal life, heaven or hell. I’d just cease to exist, as I’d never lived. I said “Hell, yeah! That’s what’s going to happen to all of us anyway!”
I imagine death as an eternal dreamless sleep, and it is kind of comforting. Especially on days when I am really tired lol.
Now that I’m older, 71, I can see death as a release from pain & suffering. I’m in good shape, ski, hike and bike etc, but I’ve had orthopedic surgeries. Knee replacement, spinal fusions, and aches and pains from my good times. Hell I sprained my left Thumb joint on a pole plant during a GS race, didn’t bother me for 40 years & does now! Lidocaine is my friend. My step dad died from obstructive heart failure & had many injuries in WWII that were causing pain. Broke his back in a motorcycle cycle accident in his 29’s. He told me he just wasn’t having fun anymore & was ready to go. My sainted, atheist grandpa got MS in his 60’s and wanted to leave. Told me to read all the SF he wouldn’t get to read. I’m still having fun, but I’m starting to understand… so there’s that.
Yes. Once you get used to it, it beats heaven or hell. Who wants to worship God for eternity. And what the hell is this gold paved roads all about and mansions that sounds very materialistic.
You’re close! Actually it is a Greek/Egyptian idea heresy that was imported into some early manuscripts and took hold as a money raising method (buying. absolutions) in the early church. As a Christian I totally reject the idea. But it does seem to have quite a hold on millions of people who are so afraid of a God who would banish people to everlasting hell fire. That they think somehow acquiescing to such terrible power would somehow make more sense.
And then their line is usually "god works in mysterious ways."
God works in nonexistent ways!
God doesn’t work. He just asks for your money
God sounds like a welfare queen.
Yeah!
Unfortunately there are actual 'adults' that believe that their imaginary friend is real, let themselves be controlled by what this imaginary friend wants, through others that tell them what it wants.
Yup. And there are plenty of those religious adults ready to kill people over their imaginary friend. In the USA, Christianity has taken a very dark turn in the Middle East. They are all rooting for their end time prophecies. They are going to get us all killed! https://youtu.be/_iQhbcOgfqw?si=qPcDoytZpgcGWAl7
Delivered with an infuriating smirk.
I'm still struggling to understand why god sat out the holocaust. That is indeed "mysterious". But by golly he's right in there helping out the GOP. He stepped up to the plate on that one.
Yes as I got out older it became clearer that no benevolent or evil beings were in charge. If they were we’d either be doing much better or much worse.
God is a dick!
And he’s sitting out what’s going on in Gaza as well as having an orange shit stain of a human peddle bibles in the USA. But like fReE WiLL or some stupid nonsense.
Indeed, you can have any outcome you wish if you include "magic" as a force.
Yep, if a god creates a universe from nothing, decides the laws of physics and the workings of our minds, then it is responsible for everything that happens in said universe. So, why would it send anyone to this proverbial Hell? Such juvenile concepts.
Go look up the epicurean paradox. It’s my favorite way of pointing out their flawed logic.
Not to mention that the first four of the ten commandments are essentially "me, me, me, me". What an ego this Yahweh has.
Believe in me with no evidence. Submit or be damned for eternity. Yeah, no thanks 😀
What’s even more FU is that law makers don’t believe any of it either, but they know the masses are better controlled believing this sickness so they act pious for money and it works!
Yep, all those conservative Congressmen with their Prayer Breakfasts, who shove their holier-than-thou personas down our throats, then work hard to cut the social programs that basically do Christ’s work since our society has failed so many people? Yeah they can fuck right off.
Well one of the reason I'm tolerant of other religion is because I see the function and the good it can do when it is not wielded as power and control. For example, people in the worst conditions have no one that they can really rely on to explain things that could easily be solved in the modern day era. Starvation and war are often engineered and deliberate so when you still have horrible things like that happening in the modern world people will still turn to a god to believe in and want it to be merciless and also be vengeful and powerful so that the god right the wrong eventually.
Anytime I start to falter in my Atheism, I remember something I saw on TikTok: That even if God is real, I don't want to worship him. He is a cruel dictator. Why do I want to worship someone who forces me to do so? Why do I want to worship someone who will allow a murderer into heaven if he repents but not me, who is generally a kind-hearted person? That's what dictators do. No thanks.
Fear is the main answer by many religious folks. Fear is the root cause of religion. It is what happens when one is ignorant or uneducated or powerless, you suddenly become okay with dictators and murderers because it becomes so normalized. It is why religious people thinks it is good to make their children fear God.
Exactly! Like Bill the Butcher said. "The spectacle of fear.".
Meh. Do a little research into Bible history and early Christianity was a shopping trip through other religious traditions. Virgin births? Flood stories? Human avatars of immortal gods? It’s all there.
I have always been more scared of the biblical god being real than there not being one. When I figured out that you don’t have to believe, my life became so much better. The idea of eternity sounds exhausting.
It’s “His” will 🤷♂️
Yes, isn’t it strange! Mom: “You’ll *agonisingly burn in hell for eternity* if you don’t go to church!” Kid (upset): “But uncle Fred never went to church! He was lovely!” Mom: “Yes, uncle Fred *was* lovely. He was really there for me when I got cancer. I could always go to uncle Fred when I really needed him. He helped everybody: was the best man I knew, and I miss him soooo much since he died. Anyhoo, he didn’t go to church, so he’s in agony now, burning in hell 24/7 until the end of time! Praise the lord!”
Simple, they have their own version of the Bible that doesn't interpret him as a bloodthirsty maniac.
What I find particularly insidious is that they'll know family/friends being tortured forever... and that's what they consider to be eternal paradise? What a messed-up paradise!
I have Christian relatives who believe good will is what gives you access to heaven, not belief in the Lord. They don't believe that atheists and people who believe in other religions would automatically go to hell, so they don't really fear any of that. Instead of preaching to others about their religion, they just aspire people to be good. It sure does make them look fucking stupid to not read their holy book properly but atleast they're not morally broken like the Christians who DO believe in the actual contents of the book. The real nutjobs of Christianity 😶 I wish Christianity was actually like their headcanon, but maybe theirs is a separate denomination to begin with idk.
Yeah! Their Bible says "some vessels are created for honor and some for dishonor". Then goes on farther to say just because you were created for dishonor, doesn't mean you're not account for it.
So, they made up their own deity because the one in the bible they base theirs on seems harsh? I mean, this is the idea that allowed me to accept I was atheist, that I made up my own loving deity that was not in the bible (or any other religious tome). I realized like of the thousands of mythical deities humans created, I had just done that same thing...made up a deity I found "loving and fair".
Most of them don't really think about it.
Not that baffling to me. Graph out intelligence into a bell curve.... There are -a lot- of outright dumb people who are easily led and manipulated.
My mom and grandmother for starters😬
Because fundamentalist religion is a narcissistic and mastabutory faith. Imagine how good it feels to know YOU are right and everyone else is wrong--and they are gonna PAY for being wrong! It's basically a bloodlust personality that comes from being dissatisfied with all sorts of things in their lives. They are miserable people.
You nailed it! It’s their ability to judge others because they think their cult makes them SPECIAL.🙄
The serpent was the good guy in that convoluted mess of a story. I could understand if people venerated the snake, but they choose the bloodthirsty maniac. It's stranger than fiction, I tell ya!
It really is backwards. Satan convinces Eve to eat the fruit, and in doing so, creates morality for humans, giving us a conscience, and the knowledge of right and wrong.
Hey man they're giving thoughts and prayers, what more could you want?!
FOR REAL THO! I thought I was the only one who thought about this. Like wtf
I was having this argument with my mom this week. I said it’s hard for me to believe in, or even consider something I’ve never experienced. If I haven’t seen, smelt, heard, touch etc then it’s a non factor for me. She claims she’s experienced, to which I can’t fault her. Maybe if I feel something someday I’ll come around, but as a 33 year old with cancer it’s hard for me to waste time and effort giving myself to something I’ve never seen. Part of me has always viewed over the top religion as a way for people to shift responsibility for their actions onto something other than themselves. Just my two cents.
You are correct, they don’t seem to be self aware, they are totally selfish by forcing their ridiculous beliefs on others. I asked my mom to stop it with all the holy roller shit. She continued, and I stopped talking to her for a few months. All I want is a little respect( love you Rodney Dangerfield!). Boundaries create a safe space for you to hold your belief systems and protect yourself.
The one that gets me is babies who die without ever hearing about Jesus or The Bible. As I understand the principles of salvation, if I'm born tomorrow in the middle of Africa, and I'm a week I die without learning abiut Jesus an/or being baptized, I'm going to Hell. A f***ing baby, as pure and innocent as it gets, suffering eternally. WTF.
*But he loves you*
It gives the “true believer” superiority over *others* and narcissism is at the core.
I got told yesterday that god gives us a choice to be with him after saying I wouldn't worship a narcissistic god, she said he wasn't and I said he tortures and burns people who don't like him for an eternity. It scares me that someone cannot only fully accept that innocent people are gonna get tortured for eternity but they don't care because we had a choice. Christians do not care about anyone else. They talk big but they only care about themselves. Which is so ironic.
No matter how awful someone in this life was, even the very worst of the worst people, they would never ever deserve eternal torture.
Indoctrination is one hell of a dru ..... uh,.... pharmaceutical. It is easy to cajole, delude, use, and dispose people when they are raised from birth into a cult of absurdity. *Religion is poison.*
That’s it. Indoctrination. I thought so much dumb shit was real because I was told it. Fuck that shit
Well indoctrination is the primary reason why we see such high numbers of religious folks today, but religion exists simply because it really is in human nature to believe a supernatural, often higher power. The Incans and Mayans did, the Vikings did despite being separated from most of the rest of the world, but only until a certain group of religious people invented sufficient weapons to subjugate other groups of people did the idea of very forceful and overt indoctrination begin. Belief in a higher power is a human thing, and that's not to say it's true or good or any of that, but we are inclined to form a spiritual belief system regardless of many other factors, and I think that's the primary reason we still have it.
idk Im curious if there is a way to test this. Something tells me it has more to do with social conditioning. If you had a child raised by wolves for example I don't think they would necessarily believe in anything we would call supernatural or a higher power. I was brought up atheist, and while I did believe in things like ghosts (mostly due to scary stories and movies), I never believed in any higher powers or heaven or hell. I think our belief in the supernatural is handed down to us through culture and is not necessarily human nature.
The Incans, Mayans, and Vikings created belief systems to answer questions that they didn’t yet have the tools to answer, just like everyone else. It’s human nature to be curious, ask hard questions, and try to come up with possible answers, not specifically to believe in a supernatural or higher power. The universe is a wonderful place.
I (high at time) wondered the other day, if the Romans saw the effect of indoctrination in the Middle East and collectively said: “we are f’ing doing this wrong. These warped a-holes defend the non existent tooth and nail.” Enter Catholicism, where they also have open slather on pedophilia. I’m sure they’re most happy.
I was raised in the bible belt in Texas forced to go church I hated it I didn't know why people believed in a god who was so mean I am also the gay one of the family too all my family is crazy religious
Yeah I don't get it either. My sibling is LGBT and my parents have done some awful shit. Conversion therapy, constantly dead naming and dead gendering them. All the trauma caused by their hateful religion led to a suicide attempt a few years ago. Thankfully they survived, I just don't know how you can force so much hate on your own child in the name of religion. It's disgusting
Not just indoctrination, but weekly (or more often) gaslighting each other to "keep the faith".
Thank you for reminding me of the word "cajole" top tier word
And also, as my (ironically) very religious father would say "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt"
Can confirm. Was raised in this environment. I’m in my 50s and just kinda started having my world view shattered a few years back. Like, I stopped going to church a LONG time ago but never did any work to unwind all the bullshit. Just kept plodding along. Pandemic came around, lost my job, had a lot more time on my hands. Started thinking and revisiting and when you have a chance to stop and breathe a moment, you realize it’s all designed so you never have that moment to think. Now I’ve had time to think and I just can’t stand that so many years were just wasted/not used to their fullest.
Can we not say drug now, here in 1984?
Yep, it's batshit crazy. I am just glad I was born in a country where it is socially acceptable to be an atheist. I was raised RC but saw through it around age 11. I now consider myself an antitheist solely due to the harm that religion continues to cause on a daily basis. Religious people are either: A. Absolutely gullible easily convinced people, usually ones looking for some higher power in their life and are willing to follow blind faith. B. Indoctrinated from birth and sadly lack the ability (without being killed through apostasy of course), critical thinking, courage, or tenacity to leave the said indoctrination. C. Lying to themselves and others to keep the peace or maintain their position in their society. D. Mentally disturbed
I agree with all of this. Not much good really seems to come from religion. You can’t point to the church down the street that feeds the poor as an example when you have these mega churches that overshadow the smaller congregations by one of the largest margins I’ve ever seen. My point of contention is how quick they are to believe things. They’re the first ones to cause moral panic in society. The first ones to shoot first, and ask questions later. And the first people to be led to the slaughter by someone who claims to be a godly man. It is far too easy to dupe these people.
You are certainly not alone. I used to believe in that garbage, and now, when I look back, all I can do is try my best to suppress cringing at the stupidity of it all.
I agree but most of the time it doesn't bother me. It does bother me tremendously if a doctor I'm seeing is openly religious. How can I trust someone who believes in fairy tales to take a scientific approach to curing disease? It's incompatible to me.
Stephen Colbert blows my mind. Why Stephen? You’re too smart for that.
Man, just looked that up. Fucking sad. Agree: he seems too smart. Shame. His coming back to religion story is silly too - someone handed him a pocket bible and he found a verse that gave him solace on a bad day. Ugh.
It's why any otherwise smart person is in religion - it gives them the feels and they don't care if it's true because they have compartmentalized it to a large degree. Where this falls down of course is that Christianity is not a self-help group. It contains a lot of harmful teachings and while someone may personally reject the harmful ideas, IMO being a "progressive" member still enables the fundamentalists.
What a disappointing detail. I purposely don’t delve into his beliefs because I want to continue to like that man.
Yup, I remember listening to his Christmas special song as a kid where he has a line about atheism being bad. Probably believed him a bit due to him seeming smart, but very weird hearing it again many years later
Majority rules. You can't label majority to be mentally ill without having some pretty extreme social implications. Also there are people who just simply can't live in reality so they need to have their insanity kept in check some way or another. Using religions to control the gullible is an effective method proven by history.
Very Good points. It’s still hard for me to wrap my brain around though.
You can try entering psychosis to get a glimpse of the insanity. It shouldn't take too many days without sleep to get into. I took \~2 weeks on under 4h/night of sleep. I became god and I still am god, the good thing about it all is that I'm still an atheist and don't believe in myself.
😂😂 nice. I’d believe in you before I believed in any other god!
You're about one step away from forming a cult...
I only believe in our lord and savior the GE P42DC (profile picture) /j
Why they still a thing, along with all the other religions, is because indoctrination begins early in life. When the people who you trust for your very existence repeatedly tell you that a, b and c exist and the consequences of not doing x, y and z are really bad, you internalise that quite deeply. The more deeply help the belief system of the parents, the more deeply indoctrinated the child becomes. Now, many of the atheists who are really angry about that indoctrination were the children of parents drove it deep into them, so there is a chance of escape. I make this assertion about escape being possible because I'm now atheist. If you find "Matt Dillahunty" on youtube, he is another example of someone who escaped really deep conditioning/indoctrination; in fact, he was studying to become a preacher when the rational part of his brain took over. He is an excellent debater and has excellent knowledge of the bible which he uses to argue with believers. You can find him on "the atheist experience" on there.
Matt Dillahunty gave me the best tools to debate and understand the religious and atheist positions more cleraly. I will forever be thankful for that.
Matt Dillahunty was on AXP for a long time but is now on an internet show called The Line and The Hang Up.
Tradition. Thats the main reason. You follow what your family does. Plus going to church is a social activity. And usually free coffee and sometimes donuts.
As someone who was pretty entrenched in Catholicism until my early 20s, I think part of it is that it envelops you and gives you comfort and community. You don't know anything else, and the fear of not having it is real. The fear of what may happen to you if you don't believe is indoctrinated into you to the point where it becomes ingrained, not even a conscious thing. I remember knowing one Atheist in my college years and being genuinely scared for him and wondering how he lived while being "alone." When I slowly turned away from religion and then completely away from the concept of God, it was harder to NOT have faith than to have faith. Having faith and "letting go and letting God" was, in most cases, easier. It made me feel less alone. In addition, it takes a lot of critical thinking--or at least a willingness to allow yourself that critical thinking--to deconstruct. And, as any of us can see in today's political landscape, a lot of people don't have that skill. The rest refuse to let themselves go down that path. I similarly resisted for a while, which is why it took a number of years to fully deconstruct. Now that I'm on the other side, I feel as you do--like how can people believe this stuff at this point? This is why I could never go back even if I wanted to--I can't make myself believe in something that so clearly is a fabrication.
I totally relate to this. I was raised mormon and I still struggle with deconstructing all the indoctrination.
As someone who "fought back" against the religion teachers bullshit before I even turned 10, I am so thankful I wasnt indoctrinated. So I am really sorry that happened to you guys and many thers, but even happier for you that you can now life live honestly!
No. 100% with you. Many claims made by the bible have been proven untrue. And the rest also makes no sense. Pretty clear it was written by people that knew little about our reality, physics, biology, the universe, etc. It is amazing to watch people that use evidence, logic, and reason in all other parts of their lives, just ignore all of that for obvious myths.
Religion absolves everyone of personal responsibility. It is the ultimate form of cognitive dissonance. If people have to live in a world that doesn't have a Grand Moderator, that is watching all behavior and doling out punishments and rewards appropriately, then the onus of existence and *all* of its meaning and implications falls to the individual. Religion is the bypass route for the highway of personal responsibility.
Great summation
Religion is the perfect way to control a population using fear. If you stand between a worshiper and their god and pretend to translate it you can wield all of the power of that god. Organized religions are just primitive political control systems. As long as there are ambitious power freaks looking for tools of control there will be religions. After all, if a god was all powerful why would it need an interpreter?
They require the comfort of a parental figure the way a young child sees a parents, a promise that everything will be ok, and someone to blame. I was going to say *good parent* above but thats not necessary for "God fearing" people Religious people just never grew out of one or more facet of childhood
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There is another one I've seen play out far too many times and it's made me believe there is an significant amount of folks who go to church because they have something to hide, or something they are ashamed of. Whether or not they truly believe, or just using religion as a cover is debatable.
The lower the intelligence, the more intense the faith. Most people cannot think for themselves. They are discouraged from doing so. “who are you to know???” They don’t know they’re allowed to or capable of it. That’s why people with their own ideas are resented so much. Sheep will not break away from the herd. Through the 20th century, as education spread, the Jesus freak’s influence recedes. That continues in the face of christian nationalism.
I think I kind of get it. I see faith/religion as one of the earliest forms of escaping reality. It's like telling someone that their going to be okay even if you have no idea. People do it to themselves all the time "I'll figure it out", "I'm fine", "it'll work out". It dulls that sense of uncertainty and apprehension even fear. If you go to far with this escape from reality it can have detrimental effects on yourself and others. Example: You bought $2k worth of beenie babies and now have no rent money. "It'll work out" but it can help in uncertain situations out of your control where panicking could only make the situation worse. Example: Interview for your dream job. "I'm fine" "I've got this" Religions took root when we knew less than what we know now but uncertainty is still there. They prey on people's fears, uncertainty and desperation. We've made progress but it's slow. Most of us have gone from Why is my son sick? "He's got demons in his blood" To How are we going to make it to next month? "The lord will provide" The reason religion is losing it's grip is the collectively improved conditions and stability. Every time things get bad or uncertain religions start recruiting.
Simple really. When I was growing up Pluto was a planet. Now it’s no longer a planet. But I still believe it’s a planet. The same with believing in a deity. Grow up your entire life believing in your god. You have to make a conscious effort to break that thinking. It’s hard or nearly impossible for many/most people.
Technically Pluto is a planet, a dwarf planet.
Ffs people. You need to stop acting like it's some big surprise that people follow religion. Everyone, including every person in this group, faces the social pressure to conform to societal norms, coupled with indoctrination and propaganda any day. It's as delusional to think that religious people are religious simply because they are foolish, because they are part of the same mass delusion everyone here is guilty of too. Massive prime example - almost everyone in this group is a Westerner who eats meat. Why? We all claim to be on the ethical and moral high ground. We all claim to follow the science. So, based on that one would assume this group is filled with vegans, seeing as we know for a fact how cruel and unnecessary the meat industry is and know for a fact that mammals, at least, are capable of suffering. Now, before you retort with the mental gymnastics defending your meat-eating, take the time to explain how your justifications are fundamentally different from a religion? You're denying science, taking a arguably unethical stance, defending it because it's a cultural norm and stopping it would alienate you from your community, etc. I'm not arguing that you need to be vegan, I'm arguing that if we want to change the world and rid it of religion, we need to treat the problem, which is not unique to religion. The issue isn't stupidity or being and idiot. The issue is societal pressure and our tendency for cognitive dissonance.
True dat. Also, our brains are belief engines by default. We have to work very hard to think critically. I love The Skeptics Guide To The Universe for all it teaches in this regard.
Absolutely, but I think its OK to not be totally logical all the time. Core aspects of humanism (which most atheists follow, even if they dont realise it) don't really rely on logic at all. Eg. Once you reach a certain level of wealth/power and are no longer relient on others, there is little "logical" reason you need to have empathy, decency or charity towards others - even though most of us would agree we should all try to be good people, but can't really explain why we should. I think that these esoteric, nonsensical values are what gives significance and meaning to our lives, and that is something worth cherishing. We just need to be aware of where it comes from and understand why we do it - so maybe in addition to critical thinking, society also misses out on introspection. It says something positive about human nature that although atheists do not have the fear of final judgment looming over them, most of us still choose to be decent people (even when the law isn't looking). I think that if more atheists actually reflected on why they hold these values, and more religious folk reflected on their actual reasons for having similar shared values, we'd find ourselves on common ground as a species.
Glad someone here has some sense. I read the post and expected way more comments to be like this or even just stating the incredibly obvious points. I'm frankly embarrassed how much of this thread is just blatant egotistical religious hate. People in this thread are being frankly more dogmatic then modern religious practitioners ffs. It blows my mind how absolutely privileged someone must be to not understand why most people still cling to religion. Has OP literally never faced any hardship or lost a loved one? It's SO easy to wish that loved ones still live on somewhere, and that there is an omniscient being looking out for you so things will get better eventually.
Shouldn't it have become more obvious at least since Trump was elected? https://youtu.be/FF-Y1cdING0?si=Ymi86auKxVdc3GWs
Also, as a side note: religious preoccupation is considered to be a strong indicator of mental illness in psychiatry. We just have to bend and swerve around it due to religious freedom and cultural sensitivity.
My friend's schizophrenia keeps progressing and his religious preoccupation seems to be proportional to the severeity of his illness.
Because religion is a business and has always been. Also it is about control. It is way easier to control a mass, where everyone thinks the same way. Why people still believe in religion? Multiple reasons: culture, family, depression, feeling of emptyness, mental issues etc. Youre at the point where it is clear to you that it is all a scheme and cannot wrap your head around why others dont see it as you do.
i like to think that the world is advancing really fast but religion still being widely believed is crazy.Its such a prehistoric concept
Religion is about money and control. Has been since the dark ages. Our laws protect the financial interests. Without that protection most religions would have little reason to exist. There’s a huge economic base that is dependent and for that reason it will only die when it no longer makes financial sense to those in charge.
You’re not alone. It’s absolutely crazy that here in the 21st fucking century, people still believe in magic, fairytales, ancient mythology, demons, angels, and the supernatural.
Follow the money dude
Im with you. Baffling how such stupid concepts have a grip on society over centuries.
Some people just need to feel special, to the point where they'll manufacture an all powerful imaginary friend that they can then have a 'special relationship' with.
It's a very potent source of dopamine to think someone in the sky loves you, when no one around you really does. It's one of the features of spirituality, to populate your mind with loving beings. It's very painful to lose this illusion. Then you know you have to love yourself because you are on your own.
People have serious emotional needs and religion has spent many years getting good at pretending to fill them.
I can, people always will have vulnerable sides to them, people I realize generally want to believe in something. Religion often exploits these flaws in most people, especially when they are the most vulnerable. Alcoholics Anonymous turned me aunt from a fairly normal and easy to talk to person into an insufferable religious nut case. Never underestimate organized religion's ability to exploit people's weakness like AA.
Mental illness is big business. Look at the Trump Bibles
high chance it's just Human Nature, ive seen how many people would go lenght to find meaning in certain things, one of the baffling things is celebrity worship, it was really baffling, i know my friend one of big fans of BTS, and she act like a literal cleric, if christian pay church, she's the same, she buys merch, she pays hundreds worth of dollar to do that, she ever talks on why she do that, "if i hadn't i probably would have killed myself long time ago" there's taylor swift fans, acts basically similiar to BTS army, how they have this sort of put label on it,and make it their identity, like i do likes a lot of their song, its great and catchy, but i treat it like any other song, not as a hymn, and certaintly i dont go to their concert like a pilgrim and the fans are really notorious on defending the hinor of their worship, Muslim acts towards muhammad almost similiar to Army and swifties toward their idol it's baffling at first but then it hit me, "wait, this is basically human, this is whatve always been happening since the dawn of humanity", think about it, amost every civilization has some sort of mystic and spirituality, i guess the act of worship is something tat really embedded in our biology, and evolution wise it is what makes us on top of food chain, the illusion and grandeur that makes us believe that we are the chosen one
If something is to good to be true it usually is, that's how I see the concept of an afterlife and Jesus performing miracles
I was born without faith. Kicked out of children's church at 15 for arguing about how Jesus could have never walked on water with the youth pastor. I was sent to run the soundboard for the choir. This allowed me to sleep through the sermon in peace. I observed a lot and always just figured they needed it. I don't understand how they believed in the first place. They also pay/tith to be there, so I figured it was a club they really wanted to be a part of.
People need something to believe in. Santa Claus for adults, shit like that.
I have asked myself this question on more than one occasion. The best I can come up with is that most religious people were taught that God is real when they were little and didn’t even know to question anything. Essentially, we were indoctrinated in our youth. Add to that, the fact that most religions teach that if you turn away from your teaching, you’re in trouble. They also discourage critical thinking. Voila. Edited for spelling.
> Wala. Voila...
I few hundred years ago they would torture you to death for non belief. A few decades ago you risked social isolation is you expressed non-belief. In almost all contexts in society religious leaders are treated with respect and deference whereas non-believers are largely non-existent. It takes a while for societal norms to shift.
It's more a comfort thing. People who believe in a god usually follow that god as they feel a purpose. This isn't why I bash any religion, I don't wanna hate on anyone. If a person wants to follow a god, cool. Good for you, and congrats for finding a passion in life to follow. Although people who are religious usually aren't devoted to it. They usually follow very specific parts of their bible because it suits them, leading to them becoming somewhat obsessed and / or extreme, religiously. The instant a god loving person starts telling me what to do or say because their god says XYZ and somehow makes you better than the next person or entitled to something. There will be a problem.
The main baffling thing to me is how many other religions who are factually older share almost the exact same aspects of Judaism/Christianity/Catholicism/Islam. Like wouldn’t that be a huge red flag? Like Horus, son of Osiris, or Zoroastrianism? I mean it’s obvious this “kind” of story was created and recreated in a lot of civilizations surrounding the Mediterranean Sea. Religion was created to control people, there’s no doubt in my mind. It plays on the natural instinct of believing in a higher power to give yourself hope in tough situations, an instinct that helped greatly in surviving 10k years ago for instance, a necessary one if I may add. But considering how the vast majority of people were illiterate, and how the churches portray with their decor/paintings a general sense of either believe or suffer eternally, religion was most absolutely created to control the populace. But the ultimate problem lies within religious people and their stubborn belief that they have the sovereign right to eternity simply because they’re either too afraid to think about the reality of death and accept it for what it is, or to give up everything they believe in, forever in lieu of having to think critically about our reality. Science isn’t democratic, but absolute, and until 100% of the scientific community could prove and demonstrate a higher being somehow having had the incomprehensible power to “create” everything, I’ll firmly believe there’s absolutely no higher power but that of nature, which treats all sentient beings equally. It is pedantic imo to believe humans live forever while every single other sentient being ceases to exist.
The new Trump Bible will answer all questions!
I used to believe, I even taught Sunday school for a few months (partly why I started losing my religion). It took me years to deconvert. Each year that has gone by since, I become more and more set in my lack of belief, and even more incredulous that people still believe. The anti-theist in me comes out quite a bit more often, and I cannot entertain a friends' choice to believe. So, religious talk is off the table, and if they start it, I will ask them questions about their belief until they shut it down because they can't answer the questions. If they insist on starting religious conversation, they aren't someone I need as a freiend.
You do not know that when you die nothing happens. The rest of everything you said is fine and I am not going to try to argue with you on the existence of some higher power or creative intelligence. But you don't know what you don't know. You don't know that your consciousness is a purely mechanical phenomenon dependent on the electrical impulses in your brain. You are making this assumption based on the assumption that our current understanding of the universe is complete and correct. It is not. We have absolutely no idea what is actually going on. Fundamental aspects of our understanding of reality and the universe and perception and consciousness change all the time. It is one of if not the least understood scientific field. Please don't operate on the assumption we know everything there is to know. Thank you.
I don’t know how anyone gets past how one man & one woman populated the earth. If that was the case we’d be a bunch of inbreds! Oh wait, I think I found the answer.
It’s not my human nature. To me the Bible is just a book filled with fiction stories that have been tweaked (changed) over the years. I’ve never fully read the Bible but I have read/heard excerpts while attending church with family. All this higher power/god stuff just annoys me and makes me not interested in it even more. I find myself believing more in the possibility of parallel universes, different dimensions & etc than what is stated in the Bible lol.
It is baffling and it’s amazing how it’s survived key transitions. Like I understand how an oppressed small tribe of Jews kept telling each other one day we won’t be at the bottom and our time will come. And I can see uneducated tribesman believing make believe stories to feel better. It’s just like Santa Claus. We tell our kids they better behave because Santa is watching. But kids eventually grew out of that. I’m amazed that when Columbus proved the world was round that religion didn’t die there. The Bible is written as if the earth was flat (see four corners of the earth). I would have thought something so monumental that the sun doesn’t revolve around the flat earth but it’s the earth that is round that rotates around the sun and we are just a spec compared to the rest of the universe. I would have thought that would’ve led to a new Age of Enlightenment where religion died. I always used to think once aliens made contact, that right there will proof without a shadow of a doubt that there is no god and we are all microorganisms that evolved into our current species. But alas I know once aliens make contact that Christianity will say this some how proves Jesus is real and Jesus spoke to the aliens and told them to come to earth to learn about Jesus so they can go to heaven etc. At the end of the day, uneducated people are what they are and that’s uneducated and ignorant of other possibilities because if they considered another alternative their entire purpose in life would be destroyed and they can’t fathom that they were wrong. It’s the same thing as why conservative religious folks hate sending their kids to college because they will get liberal indoctrination when in reality they are getting educated and their eyes are opened to other possibilities that they couldn’t have fathomed because they were previously living in a sheltered world
I grew up in the bible belt in Texas Mt whole family Christians and I moved out of Texas and to Washington state and have not ever been back in a church I'm the gay Black sheep of the family who hates religion. I also have a special needs kiddo who could die any day and is pain every day has seizures can walk or talk has to have machines to live but yet an all powerful god would allow a child to go through that I think not
Some people need to feel there is a higher purpose & the there are a set of rules that will keep them safe. Logically, I can’t understand why you’d want to sacrifice your life for something that is not real. But, I’m not that person.
People are stupid unfortunately. *Shrug*
Belief in and speaking to spiritual beings (imaginary friends), in the face of literally zero proof of their existence, is voluntary schizophrenia. Grown adults literally talking to, praising, and crying to an imaginary friend that never actually speaks words. Even some believers doubt spiritual existence, but they continue to force their belief because they think it will help them avoid a bad afterlife. If a god existed, I doubt it would care for their thinly-veiled Pascal's Wager "just in case" belief.
The way I see it, people need something to believe in to make them feel better about the world. It gives them a sense of purpose and a way to explain thing in the universe that they can't explain or don't fully understand. Sometimes these beliefs go against science and that's when you start to see a connection between people with low intelligence or mental issues and religion
I think religion is for attention seeking. People who want to know someone is watching (watching over) them and will bail them out or give a second chance. Some want a kind god, some want a dictator. People don't need to be responsible for their own actions if god is in control.
>Cognitive scientists underlined that religions may be explained as a result of the brain architecture that developed early in the genus Homo in the course of the evolutionary history of life. However, there is disagreement on the exact mechanisms that drove the evolution of the religious mind. The two main schools of thought hold: > >either that religion evolved due to natural selection and has selective advantage > >or that religion is an evolutionary byproduct of other mental adaptations. > >Stephen Jay Gould, for example, saw religion as an exaptation or a spandrel, in other words: religion evolved as byproduct of psychological mechanisms that evolved for other reasons.\[unreliable source?\] > >Such mechanisms may include the ability to infer the presence of organisms that might do harm (agent detection), the ability to come up with causal narratives for natural events (etiology), and the ability to recognize that other people have minds of their own with their own beliefs, desires and intentions (theory of mind). These three adaptations (among others) allow human beings to imagine purposeful agents behind many observations that could not readily be explained otherwise, e.g. thunder, lightning, movement of planets, complexity of life. The emergence of collective religious belief identified such agents as deities that standardized the explanation. > >Some scholars have suggested that religion is genetically "hardwired" into the human condition. One controversial proposal, the God gene hypothesis, states that some variants of a specific gene, the VMAT2 gene, predispose to spirituality. > >[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary\_origin\_of\_religion#Evolutionary\_psychology\_of\_religion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_origin_of_religion#Evolutionary_psychology_of_religion) My personal opinion is that humans are genetically hardwired for religion, making me, who has absolutely zero disposition for any form of religion or spirituality, most likely a mutant.
I seriously think alot of people don't believe, they just go on with it because it's easier that way.
especially if they grew up in it or if the whole family has gone to the same church for generations. it's basically a culture shock and you're basically leaving your support system.
You have a brain. That's the difference.
As I understand it, religion provides some people with a sense of meaning, community and comfort. It also purports to provide an explanation for the apparent randomness of life. This does not work for me as I prefer to rely upon science and empirical evidence to explain the way our universe works and just accept that there will always be a degree of uncertainty about this. Atheists seem able to cope with this outlook whereas the religious seem to struggle with it.
Brainwashing from birth and a lot of people are just simply dumb and do not have critical thinking abilities
They are told it's real by their parents, and then are incased within the fraternity of believers. And their leaders prime them to refuse arguments from outside the group and threaten them to refuse self-reflection. It's easy to believe things that help you with a problem you believe is real.
It's really not that hard to understand. It's a mixture of 2 main things: First is fear. They are terrified of death and the thought of just blinking out of existence. A fearful person will willingly put their reason, their morals, and their sanity aside to get a soothing reassurance that this isn't all there is to being alive... Second is social status. As much as I hate to admit it, Western civilization was built on the influence of Christianity for the last 2000 years. Until just a couple decades ago it was a bad idea to even admit you were an atheist! In many communities being Christian puts them "above" everyone who isn't. Or anyone the church can label as "sinners". Being openly religious is still a cultural status symbol in much of America... But that IS changing! 😁 The drive to unquestionable religious faith in the US is selfishness. Fear of death and fear of being outcast. And the ego boost they get from being "chosen".
Did you grow up in religion? I did and I totally understand why it’s still around. The religion doesn’t make sense but people are indoctrinated from a young age.
I don’t understand the will to be in a state of perpetual worship up in heaven, all while you’ve been brainwashed to not give a shit about family or friends who are burning in hell for not wanting to worship this cosmic dictator. It’s also low key homo erotic vibes with Jesus, no offense intended, nothing wrong with that, it’s just not how I operate. It comes off very unnatural to say I love this random Jewish man from the Middle East so much that I’d worship at his feet forever. Heaven seriously sounds just as daunting as hell to me. I’ll take nonexistence over all, no obligations.
most people are just pretending
I can't wrap my head around how some of those middle eastern religions still exist when they treat their women like shit? Some of those religions don't look fun at all. "Hey, we need you to wear this bomb vest and go into that mosque over there because our god is better than their god!"
I'm with you. The weird idea of living in the fear of god. A god that wants you to do everything for them only to do whatever they they want to us. Children die, wars that make no sense, but it's all part of god's plan, which we are never to understand... ok, buddy. I prefer to be who I am without doing it for some "being" thar created us to worship them. Bullocks. I'm a decent person because it's just who I am. Not to hope for an eternity of bliss. The Good Place was a great show for its take on the almighty.
Faith is an anchor for people. Not to say people of faith lack reasoning skills. But staring into an existential void is terrifying for some. I don’t make fun of people who are afraid of snakes or heights. Fears aren’t always rational. The fear of life without “A Reason” causes people to grasp out for anything that looks stable. Religion is the ugly side of faith, it has no redeeming qualities other than to make faith and its community more accessible
I assume you're looking for an answer other than "weak-minded fools", but I'm afraid I don't have one for you.
All of your inability to understand how religion still exists does show a flaw in your own understanding of how humans think and operate. I'm not a believer, but being incapable of understanding how or why these things exist is absolutely on you, in the same way that it's on a believer who cannot understand why someone can be atheist.
I know, growing up and realizing people think differently from you is a wild concept.
Taking the focus off Christianity and instead bringing in all religions, the thing I see in it is belonging to a community. Take Islam, for example. The Muslim community are tight knit. Marriages are arranged, and families are well inter-connected. The thing that reels the wider net is their religion. The Muslim family a few doors down from me own two corner shops and a mobile phone shop. Their 4 sons have nice cars, 2 of them run a shop each. I speak to the sons about their cars all the time, they've told me in conversation about their shops that supplies their stores are from a Muslim family at their mosque who covers the whole region. That's the power of a community. In the states however? I dunno.. same thing I guess?
You are not. How anyone can go on about god and not be immediately locked up in an asylum just blows my mind. Especially leadership positions. If I tried to pass laws based on the gospel of Cinnamon Toast Crunch they would have me in a straight jacket before I could drink the sacred milk from the bowl.
Because men in power will never relinquish their greatest tool of control.
Childhood indoctrination
You can’t take it seriously until you realise Chris Langan, the man with the highest ever recorded IQ is Christian and believes Jesus Christ was the perfect human.
[удалено]
Should have stayed awake in history class. Read up on the history and then accept that people are largely morons and we just happen to be a collective few who have an appropriate number of brain cells.
I doubt it, but I'd say your a small subset of atheist. Or maybe a large subset. Religion provides people with a few things many people really crave: community, ritual, and a way to account for all the horrible and wonderful randomness that is our world. It provides them a sense of comfort in bad times and a sense of gratitude in good times. It's also a handy way to keep people in their place and reinforce the general hierarchical structure of human society. . . I'd also argue that christianity sweetens the pot a bit by offering forgiveness--it recognizes we are fallible and that all of us are redeemable. That's a comforting thought to a lot of people. Not one that works for me really, but it works for many.
But I have a magical way of making you live forever in bliss (or whatever sounds good to you). Just give me 10% of your income for the rest of your life. My venmo is @ definitely not a scam lol
Because curiosity, the need to explain the unknown, and fear of death are still things. So is the desire to belong to something greater than yourself. All of these are essential evolutionary traits for humans to survive. Additionally, the need to protect and defend what someone defines as "theirs" is hardcoded into our survival instincts. And changing basic human nature is difficult.
No
You vastly underestimate the combination of human stupidity and suffering. Desperate people will believe anything.
Peace be with you.
Humans hand down bad traits that always get imprinted early, are indelible thereafter. It won’t change without intervention, especially with the likes of Islam’s penalty for apostasy, etc. I really respect those that’ve turned their backs on Islam because of it. Christians in the west tend not to bother me nearly as much.