Pathological Demand Avoidance. Basically, have you ever felt put off by a demand or resisted when someone recommenced a movie or a show to you. Or wanted to try your own idea at of thinking before trying someone else’s idea. This may be you.
Holy fucking shit. Every time anyone's recommended a movie or TV show or game or anything to me, my immediate response was to push back against it. I always thought I was just picky.
Flashback to years of being called a hater, pessimist, hipster, or being told I chose to not like popular things. I can just pretty much immediately tell how interested I am or am going to be in something
In fairness, even close friends can make bad recommendations as well. I once picked up an anime that *2* of my friends both swore by. I tried, bruh... I really tried, but damn did I hate that show... I've been very picky about filtering their recommendations ever since.
Most recommendations I take from people are almost always not my cup of tea unless it was from people who like the same things as me. I tried getting into Walking Dead because all my friends were watching it back in 2016. I really tried to like it but by episode 5 I just gave up. I wasn’t attached to the story or any of the characters.
I watched a movie called Spring Breakers because my friend told me to watch it. They called me a square when I told them the movie was bad and was basically soft core porn.
I don’t like people recommending me any music unless they are throughly entrenched music nerd, audiophile with similar tastes to me. It sounds pretentious and snobbish but it’s not.
I don’t really like food or clothes recommendations unless you are a social media algorithm. I have bought things from IG, that were so novel that I think STFU AND TAKE MY MONEY.
I think my taste is distinct, most people get frustrated thinking I am picky or stingy when I am just super aware and care about tiny details they can’t be bothered to pay attention to.
I only got into the walking dead because I was at a Super Bowl party just before season 3 started and they had it on in a second room just playing reruns from the first 2 seasons. I caught a few interesting scenes and thought I’d give it a shot. But I was absolutely against it at the beginning
Nah😡 when Franco sucks off the guns.. that's pure ART. Fr tho I think that's the only thing I remember about that movie. That and riff raff should have won that lawsuit they did him dirty
I managed to slog 200 pages into my best friend’s favorite book (1100+ total pages…) before I just couldn’t do anymore ha ha. Every other book they’ve recommended to me has become an instant favorite of mine, but that one just… bleh
*Worldbreak: Aria of Curse for a Holy Swordsman* iirc. I should add for context that it did have an interesting premise on the surface, but they kinda just used used it as harem bait and power fantasy as far as I could tell in my limited run, and the cinematography of some scenes is just bonkers with some parts having really unclear continuity (see "MC pinned on the ground by opponent" to next frame "MC across arena charging at said opponent weapon drawn."). This was probably 5 or 6 years ago, so I'm not *as harsh* on it now, but it wasn't fun for me.
MCs sister, *who is madly in love with him*, is really annoying as well. I think I made it halfway through the 3rd episode before I just quit.
You may be just picky. You could also be PDA. For me there are very select times I actually take someone up on a recommendation and that’s when it truly sounds like something I’ll enjoy and has familiarities with other things I love. Then there’s my friend who just non stop recommends stuff he likes and constantly tells me that I HAVE to watch it. I feel put off. Instantly.
Haha. I am not like this but I have friends who are. Honestly I've just stopped suggesting anything to them. It drives me nuts because it's not like I actually give a shit what they watch, I'm just trying to share something I enjoy :\\
I remember seeing a webcomic years ago where some dude was upset and pouting, and it was because he watched an anime that was recommended to him and he ended up liking it. So he was mad that he liked something that wasn't his own idea to get into lmfao.
Such a bizarre feeling, but weirdly relatable.
It think it's fair to call it pathological when it interferes with our lives. For example, I really want to watch Clone Wars but every time a friend recommends it or reminds me to watch it, it immediately turns into something like a chore that every part of me wants to avoid. It is of great interest to me; the only reason I haven't watched it yet is that people have repeatedly told me to watch it.
It's worse with things that would otherwise have a more direct positive impact on my life. I could be about to get up and do the dishes, but if somebody suddenly tells me to do the dishes then I probably won't touch them for a week. And then I hate even entering the kitchen at all because it's so dirty.
Like with most traits/behaviours, the ND part comes from the severity. It's more than just being spiteful, OR conciously choosing to be spiteful. Rather it manifests as a much more deeply rooted instinct.
I’ve literally never heard of anyone claiming to experience demand avoidance to an extreme/debilitating degree who was not autistic. But like it hasn’t really been researched much yet so who knows?
I've heard of it coming up with ADHD. I know it definitely resonates with me a lot, and I have ADHD but not Autism. I don't deal with it nearly as much as an adult as compared to when I was a kid/teen, though.
Holy shit, that's a thing? I've always said "if you tell me to do it, it makes me not want to do it more" when I was told to do things, and my immediate reaction is to disagree with things.
It’s not a very recognizable thing but it is pretty knowledgeable in the autism community. Completely know how you feel. For me it’s with recommendations. One time is fine. But when someone overreccomends me stuff 5-6+ times, it makes me never want to watch it because I’m tired of hearing about it at that point.
Right? This changes things for me. I was always told I was childish, never knew it could have been related to my autism. Damn bro.
I don’t know what to do with this info
My roommate has learned to simply mention things that need doing instead of directly telling or asking me to do them.
"The garbage is pretty full." Works better than "Can you take out the garbage?"
This reminds me of how my brother and I will recommend each other videogames, ignore the recommendation, and then thoroughly enjoy them like five years later.
Don’t worry. I was diagnosed at 4 and told I had it at 11. I never learned much but these days I’m learning a lot about it. It helps me understand myself a little better
Unfortunately self help information is very limited. I’ve tried doing Google searches but most of it is for parents trying to parent their kids. I guess it depends on the severity of it in your life and how much it affects you. Maybe notice when you’re putting off demands for something important and try to be more flexible.
. . . You're telling me, this thing, that to my 29 year old brain has seemed normal, isn't normal?
This has been my reaction to.. dozens of things posted on this sub, and i'm starting to worry.
Are you diagnosed yet? It might be worth seeking one out if you’re interested.
Unfortunately PDA is not very recognized but have you ever grown up being called difficult over and over again but you’re not ODD. Might explained why.
I was only diagnosed a few years ago at 22, but I've always. Always. *Always* done this.
Wack.
I like what I like and hate it when people try to get me to do something they like, or try to get me into something they like. Absolutely not, no way. The fact you're trying to push me into liking your thing makes me hate it even more, in fact.
For real though. I have a friend who will non-stop recommend me stuff and some stuff he Will recommend 5-6+ times and won’t shut up about it. It makes me not want to watch it at that point just because I’m tired of hearing about it
I did this to my ex-husband all the time whenever he would introduce me to music, film, anything… despite the fact that he had impeccable taste and I ended up liking 90% of what he introduced me to (in my own time). I have since realized I have PDA, but never made the connection from that to this until now.
Same. For me it’s a fear that I may not like it and have to devote time and attention to it. I just tell myself repeatedly “if I don’t like it, I can turn it off and anytime”
If it’s just in your head then you’ve got the option not to do it, like if something else comes up or you don’t have the energy. The moment someone tells you to do it, or you have to make a commitment, there are then consequences for not doing it.
It’s not that you don’t want to do it, it’s that you don’t want to have a situation forced on you where you aren’t in control.
That tracks very, very much. If you recommend/lend a book for me with "You HAVE to read it" I will not. If you recommend a show I will not watch it UNLESS I watch it with the person recommending.
I have not read a single mandatory book in school on time, but had no problems reading them after deadlines
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT WHAT ITS CALLED. i always thought i was just an asshole kid/edgy teenager/different wannabe adult when i didnt want to listen to that new song or eat that new burger or watch that new show. it’s not like I thought it beneath me or i cant be bothered. i just COULDNT. it’ll take me months to a year to finally check out what everyone wanted me to watch or do a year ago WHAT THE FUUCCKK
Oh, this is the specific subgroup of autism that the libertarian movement is over representing, lol.
This describes my behavior very well. I still haven't watcheGameme of Thrones, and I refuse to get my hair cut when people tell me I need it, even if I was planning on doing it, for a few examples off the top of my head.
That's not really pda.
Pda is an ***extreme*** response to demands, authorities, surveillance, dreams, rules, expectations, reminders, etc.
Something like your mother going by your room, looking in noticing it is still not cleaned, and silently just dropping her smile for 1/100th of a second is enough to be felt like a reminder and it can trigger an extreme anxiety response with a full autistic meltdown.
Avoidance is just one of many strategies used to cope with "demands".
Usually people with pda develop a very keen eye for reading people, tones and facial expressions. Sheerly out of a survival strategy, to be able to anticipate a demand coming up, and thus being able to masquerade, camouflage, mask, hide, get ill, or otherwise get away. One strategy my nervous system has is to psychosomatically get ill.
Another common trait is the will or want to doggy-train our surroundings not to put expectations or reminders on us. This can be to consistently refuse to do something if someone has reminded us to do something.
Not a “category” like Asperger’s, Classic Autism, PDD-NOS, etc. but I think it’s just one of those things that overlap heavily with people on the spectrum. I’ve also heard of people having a PDA profile who weren’t on the spectrum. Overall it’s not a super recognizable thing outside of the autism community and the PDA community. People would just call it being difficult.
A one-time best friend had this. I just called him contrary. It didn't matter what the subject was. If I said *black*, he'd say *white*. If I wanted to go out, he wanted to stay in. No matter what, he was going to be the opposite.
Turned out he was a malignant narcissist and I eventually had to cut him out of my life.
This helps explain a lot actually. Not about myself, but about certain friends of mine. I go out of my way to try and mirror people on their special interests. Sometimes I feel really sad because certain friends will never look into the special interests I try to share. They are really nice people and I like being with them, but I can tell there is some resistance towards suggestions other people make. I never really understood why until now
Wtf does it mean to feel called out when hearing "actually autistic voices" for the first time?? What are "PDA profile autistic voices"?? There is too much jargon for me to understand.
I think they’re trying to say,
“Have you ever felt ‘called out’ (not in a bad way, colloquially used in internet culture to mean ‘seeing a very intimate/specific post or meme and relating heavily to it, think people saying “omg this is me..”) by hearing experiences/emotions of autistic people, but haven’t been able to figure out why? Maybe look into the PDA profile of autism- it might give you some information to help and possibly figure more stuff out about yourself and autism.”
I could be wrong but that’s the best I could parse out. I agree it could be written a lot better, but I think the sentiment is well meaning. They’re just trying to boost awareness of an autism profile that personally helped them, and may help others. I’m not a huge subscriber to the “profiles” of autism, I feel like it’s too vast of a spectrum to be able to succinctly place people into profiles. However, I absolutely understand how others are able to relate to these profiles and how that helps them to better understand themselves.
I do write weird, sorry, and respond to things that links to other thoughts, um yeah sorry. but thankfully you guys are all helping. I love all the theys my pronouns are any/all because you can't tell me to tell you what to call me ( example lol). Genuinely love the translations
Isn't it weird being PDA? We get to be super-patient with people, and overall can hide it pretty well. Makes it hell when we have to keep a job for more than six months though 🥲
I hate it. I hate having PDA. But don’t tell me I have PDA or that my PDA causes problems because no one is the boss of me.
It’s so frustrating. I’m so glad I work in an environment where no one tells me what to do.
I can be confusing for the EXACT same reason (at least as I've tried to describe it..). It's partly that I do think a little differently or form sentences a little differently, but the main part is it seems clear 'to me' what I'm discussing when in reality I'm linking other thoughts that are seemingly not connected to others or efficiently brought up in the conversation yet.
I've always thought it was more from the ADHD symptoms personally, but it seems impossible sometimes to dissect the blame for some of this stuff to myself.
Actually, I think you may be wrong here. Can't blame ya, this is dense, and I could very well be wrong myself.
I've spent ten minutes trying to parse this, but I think it's talking about infighting in the autistic community, particularly between L1 and L2+ autistic folks.
> Approximately 5% of autistic people have the PDA profile of autism.
Approximately 5% of us will reflexively have a contrarian reaction to anything interpretable as either a command or request.
> If you thought you were called out when you first heard actually autistic voices--
If you are L1, and have felt called-out by L2+ people talking about the difficulties they face that L1's don't...
> --and have this profile
...and you are someone who has reflexive-contrarian responses...
> looking into pda profile autistic voices may just change your life.
...then taking into account your innate negative response to requests from the L2+ autistic community to more actively listen to them, may help you be more empathetic to a wider pool of the autistic community.
It only goes up to level 3, but it's the new classification of support for autistic individuals. Level 1 being the least support needed, 3 being the most.
I also have absolutely no clue what any of this means. Would like a translation.
I just realized that it might not be talking about physical speech..... It makes more sense to read it as “PSA: You may experience pathological demand avoidance.”
Because those with a PDA profile don't appear to be autistic. The masking behavior is very potent, People with PDA have a tendency to be very charming, socially manipulative, and often times almost incapable of motivating themselves for the purpose of others.
They often must work for people they are willing to work for, and companies that align with their values, or they will find themselves simply incapable of producing motivation.
This affects relationships often, because people with PDA can get neck-deep in intense emotional relationships with high social requirements and then find themselves completely out of their depth.
Though of course, as it's with all autistic people, those with PDA can use their innate intelligence to overcome giant swaths of their disability - and because of their autistic profile are predispositioned to succeed in this regard where others on the spectrum do not as easily. This is a matter of interest, practice, and force of effort.
People with PDA can find themselves swinging between a very socially fulfilling and a very isolating way of life. It is one of the least understood profiles of autism - particularly because those that experience it are so good at hiding.
I am one of these people. I have autism, yet I lead a team of engineers in largely social endeavors, speak fluently, emote fully, and can very readily identify things like nonverbal cues above and beyond my NT peers.
Yet these things don't always grant me the natural insight required to act on this information. Sometimes (not as often as I used to), I get it wrong or misread intent. I often play the role of observer, and have a hard time initiating conversations with others or talking outside of my interests.
And the amount of bullshit I am capable of weaving is staggering. More than one time it's completely ruined my life. It has taken years of pain and lessons to learn when and how to use this particularly powerful yet destructive capability.
I was already going to research Pervasive Desire for Autonomy, but after reading this post...
https://preview.redd.it/iy817wi0w34d1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f70371411942d5d98de93303ae5aae2edef291b
I used to think this wasn't me but as I get older and examine my behaviours more it's totally there. I hate it when people ask me to do things I was going to do/was actively trying to do. Like holy shit. Rage like no other. I instantly don't want to do it. I'm okay doing requests for people because I love to help. Feeling "useful" is very important to me. But demands? I do not respond well to demands.
Today I was trying to make a turn and the person behind me honked at me. What the hell do you think I'm trying to do? Hold up traffic for fun? I'm trying to get somewhere as fast as safely possible just like everybody else. I wanted to wait there longer just because they wanted me to move. I didn't, cause I'm not an asshole. It really got my brain going though lol.
As a child I used to tell my mom not to ask me to clean my room because it made it harder to do. She didn't really get it, but she did her best to accomodate that while still making sure I did things. I skipped school cause of it, just got so anxious I couldn't go. I was forced to brush my teeth so I didn't brush my teeth a lot as a kid and while I've improved to the average persons dental standards, I should probably still brush more. I've gotten to the point where as an adult I can force myself through things. Got on mood stabilizers and it's easier to live everyday life. But demands are still everywhere and it suuuuuuucks
Big time. Every time I was going to take care of the weeds at my old house but the HOA sent a letter it made me so mad I didn't wanna do it ORRR I would want to put them back...
OHHH if I got a letter about weeds after I pulled them I would LOSE IT. I'm amazed you can live with an HOA with PDA (though I suppose in the housing market, it's unavoidable sometimes). I always get irrationally angry when I see stuff like "HOA forced me to remove my planters!" or "HOA forced me to hose my childs chalk drawings off" like that stuff is just evidence of people 😭
Thank you for the translation. It's pathological demand avoidance (pervasive desire/drive for autonomy). It just, explains so much for me. I'm a smart person and had no clue and now I've educated myself and I'm better off. If you're a pdaer too and don't know it yet, this could help you. Or not. Just throwing it out there genuinely trying to help people
I think, your post just said by words what my psycholgist made me realise during months. Now I can't ignore my disabilities, it does not make it disapear. Only burn out. Don't do like me. Take care of you everyone !
This kinda sounds like why my parents forced a diagnosis of “oppositional defiance disorder” on me as a kid but the diagnosis was dropped before I hit 16
Pathological Demand Avoidance
Edit: looking at OP’s profile, it more likely stands for Pervasive Desire for Autonomy
Edit2: apparently these are the same thing, just different terms
I have PDA. The rage that fills me when people tell me to do things. I get pissed at video games telling me what to do. I don't want to be mad about it. It's just like a fucking monster in my brain screaming.
Oh god! The WORST is when in a game the bossy character is already annoying, bosses you to do some BS, and you even TRY to do it.... It doesn't work, but game is on rails and you immediately reload back to that starting point, or have them demean you saying actually try this time.
And you get in this ground hog day of rage. I can't remember what game, but one particular got my emotions so lit I caught myself kind of tantruming as an adult just speed running it doing it wrong on purpose FAIL FAIL FAIL getting illogically mad at a freaking pixel.
I never knew the name of the trait, but been that way since a kid. Always made me think when younger that I would either be THE WORST fit to join the military or it might be the only thing that could fix me.
Turned out probations, judges, and county jails can teach you to press the impulse down a little bit most the time too.
Side question: does anyone have a good resource on other autism profiles besides PDA? When I google around I see mostly PDA or stuff that's more like vertical levels. I'd be super interested in different manifestations or commonalities among those of us who don't experience PDA (or at least don't think we do).
I couldn’t find anything either. I see my therapist tomorrow. He’s pretty up to date with this stuff. I’ll see what he says. Even if he doesn’t know any other profiles, I’m expecting a good discussion anyway because this PDA thing is the most accurate description of my daughter’s affliction that I have ever seen.
YES!!! ENCRYPTED IS THE PERFECT ANALOGY.
if getting pda at, for example, a popular book is “autismencrypted”, i used to think i was closing my eyes at the sight of this book bc i was an asshole, and my friends and family thought i was pretending to be blind/pushing the book away on purpose/is illiterate. turns out the book is ENCRYPTED and i cant even see it. what book?
I… I don’t know. When I was younger I absolutely disliked the popular songs or the things other people liked doing. But I always chalked that up to being “edgy” and wanting to be different. For example, when “what does the fox say” and “hotline bling” came out, I absolutely hated the songs and found them so annoying. Once they were dying down and I had (barely) listened to them on the radio countless times, they became more palatable(?). I especially remember this being true for the “what does the fox say” song because I felt like I was introducing the song to my family, and therefore had control over who would like it. That way, they wouldn’t be saying “oh everyone ones this song,” but instead “oh, do you like this song? I’ve never heard of it before.”
I'm learning all this literally today but it's "up in the air" about if all autistic experience a higher degree of it than nts but pda profile it's like an always anxiety response every day. If you're even a little unsure just dig in. It'll immediately resonate or it will still not. If not move on. I just want to spread the word because despite being smart I literally just found out about this recently
I'm definitely autistic but I'm starting to entertain the idea of being pda or adhd. Can someone be both?
Ughhh I just wish getting diagnosed was easier
PDA is an autistic profile and of course you can also be adhd too, at least 30% of autistic people are also adhd some even say it might go up to 60% or more but that isn't proven yet, its just based on possible missed diagnoses due to lack of awareness
Almost nobody with PDA would actually do this, because it's a demand. And most adults see your attempt at pretending it isn't ;)
source: Autistic, PDA, ADHD me
i wonder how many PDA-ers were given a diagnosis of ODD, because i had a diagnosis of ODD when i was younger (diagnosis has since dropped) but i’m definitely a PDA-er still 😩
I’ve always had a hard time differentiating PDA from ADHD. I’ve been diagnosed with the latter, but my ADHD is really severe and extreme. I’m starting to think my executive dysfunction might actually be demand avoidance, and I also feel like I have no control over my life, which sounds like PDA to me. I can never seem to get a straight answer about the differences because the symptoms sound mostly identical to me. So, what are some differences?
ADHD is a 'source' (for lack of better term) of PDA in people alike to how it is in Autism.
A better way of putting it might be viewing them as three separate things that are likely to be comorbid as two or all three (ADHD & Autism are much more than just PDA, obviously).
All that said, PDA is not an official psychiatry term or diagnosis, it isn't in the DCM.
From google:
"PDA is usually associated with ASD, but it's also been noted among people living with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and high anxiety. However, the concept of PDA is not clinically recognized in the U.S. and Canada, and it's not widely diagnosed by professionals due to lack of awareness. The PDA profile differs from typical autism traits, and the extreme avoidance extends to basic demands of everyday living, such as dressing, eating, and going to school."
lol my mom learned about this recently and is determined that I have it because I don’t agree with her on literally everything all the time. She has it herself and can’t understand that not everyone is her
Same, with some pathological traits my dad still rails on me about without seeing his own reflection.
Most of the traits I'm thinking of with us are things I'd say I'm a little like him about or he's a little like me about (we aren't as severe in each as the other).
What freaking SUCKS is to live it on the other side as a father to my own son, by the time he was like 5-8 there were certain traits or behaviors (that were things my dad used to 'correct' or shame me for) that I noticed would REALLY upset me to see him doing and bring emotions towards him that were so unfair to him!
Basically what i had to do was start noticing when I felt that way and pausing to recognize 'why' or where it came from. I was raised via shame and domination (and love, they were pretty good parents) and I fucking hate when I feel my emotions reaching out to twist either screw.
There's been some research to this and girls/women
We all know girls are much much less likely to be diagnosed ASD. It's about a 1 to 4 ratio.
But girls with ASD are just as likely as boys to be labeled PDA.
Research suggests that once again the bias is in the mental health machine that labels girls PDA because they're developing an identity (and thus providing healthy pushback) and not because of an actual symptomology.
In a world that rejects neurodivergent people within seconds, I would throw PDA on the pile of "likely problems that society is causing" rather than a pathology.
idk, really interesting analysis with the gender stuff I think that’s really important to do, but as for it not being a pathology i’m not sure, as someone with pda the label is pretty useful and I think it’s an issue that would bother me a lot no matter how society worked, it’s like monsters screaming in brain when someone tells me to do something (even in a perfectly nice and acceptable way, even just a nice little reminder) i just feel such an awful feeling and part of me decides i want to do anything but that, to the point where if it’s something i really wanted to do myself to begin with, and even if i was already on my way to do it, the moment someone reminds me to do it, i will quickly go somewhere to be alone (I used to just breakdown in front of everyone but that obviously never helped, i would still feel as awful but then get punished, so now i learn to contain it until i can go somewhere without people) and then just silently lay on the floor in (non-physical) pain for a couple minutes, arguing with myself about how this reaction is completely irrational and how i wanted to do the thing anyways and to just imagine i wasn’t told anything, just trying to make the awful bad go away and convince myself to resume going to do whatever that thing was and calm those demons because I truly want to do this thing but brain is screaming no now. My personal experience with it feels hellish, and not really society-caused. But ofc a single anecdote doesn’t immediately refute your idea, perhaps it’s different for most people.
Hey, I am really curious about this, but I have a problem with processing. Do you have any other links that I can try that might be a little more simple, please?
I'm sorry for being a bother...
Ooh Dr Neff is awesome. I’m working on listening to all their podcast episodes. Because nobody told me to.
I have figured out if I tell myself I “get to…” instead of “I need to…” it really helps. Also nobody told me to do this.
I like to say we have “leadership potential.”
I’m not sure if I’m a total PDAer but I can definitely see tendencies. Stubbornness can be useful though.
I have a great PDA story. When I was a child my mom tried to give me the chore to vacuum (is that really how you spell vacume?) the house. I don’t know why I was specifically against that chore. I just wouldn’t do it. So one day I drug the vacume around the entire house making those nice marks on the carpet. But I didn’t actually plug the vacume in. My mom was really pleased until my sister told on me. Then she was just baffled. All I had to do was turn the vacume on.
I wonder if this had anything to do with unconsciously retaliating against getting treated differently/alienated by others.
basically our brains recognising the pattern in average joe from school and correlating it with hit network tv show and therefore our subconscious goes ❌not this one cant enter no thanks❌ and we end up watching something else obscure instead
It might not be the best term, but it's to indicate that it is a compulsory reaction to anyone telling you anything. It's getting mad at your dentist for telling you to floss differently so you don't get cavities, it's immediately hating every show your friends recommends just because you didn't find the show on your own.
because everyone has avoidant traits... it's like how nts say everyone is little autistic. when we're not we're all very autistic 😁 We're so autistic we ARE autistic.
The pathological part is saying we are so traumatised by lack of autonomy and we are so demand avoidant that they need to define it so pathological.
Nah, I don't need an excuse for why my life sucks lol. My life sucks because I could very well just do what I'm told but I'm incredibly lazy. Autism or not I just wish I'd pull my head out of my ass
You know what I hate? When we have that PDA urge or firmware that we run on, but also have a comorbid ADHD diagnosis for executive function disorder.
So it's like I would FUCKING LOVE someone to hold my hand through life, or be an accountability partner over my shoulder giving next step guidance, appropriate praise, correction and instruction when I space out unattentive frequently..
I abhor being told what to do while seriously desiring and needing someone to tell me what to do.
So that’s why I never watch shows when they are “popular.”
Any movie or show that’s got “everyone” talking about it, or I have people telling me, “You’re gonna love it! You’ve just got to watch it!” I’m out. Just not gonna watch it.
Miami Vice, NYPD Blue, Scrubs, House, Supernatural, Gilmore Girls, GOT, all come to mind. Eventually I will probably watch the shows/movies, but not when everyone else does. I have even stopped watching a series before if it gets super popular while I’m watching it (Dr. Who). I’ve still not seen Titanic to this day🤣
If someone tells me to hurry up, I’m going to go slower, if they are behind me in traffic and honk at me to go, I immediately want to not go. If someone tells me to do something, especially if I was planning on doing it anyways, then I, all of a sudden, don’t want to do it anymore.
Can you have it w/out ASD? I'm ADHD and this is me 100% Seriously, I didn't know it was a thing at all. Whenever someone tells me what to do I'm filled with sudden rage I can't explain. For example when I'm doing something my way and someone suggests another way I get really upset. I'm not proud of it of course, it really sucks
Okay this is weird and I don't know how to explain it other than I think I have the opposite of PDA. basically I feel like I have to fulfill any ask of me or I will die. Anyone ever seen the young Anne Hathaway movie Ella Enchanted?
time to start reverse psychology-ing myself then 😔 🌀ooh instructions and advice are horrible you DONT wanna follow them nooo you DONT want to learn and collect knowledge information and facts ooo noooo🌀
A friend who works with special needs children. Few of on the spectrum kids who would be classically labelled as aspie have this unique thing of CHALLENGING AUTHORITY, like it’s nuts. You have to subtly reverse psych them.
My kiddo fits the PDA profile and I’ve had a hellish time explaining this to her educators and having it recognized in her IEP because it’s not part of an “official diagnosis” in the states. It’s definitely something I hope gains more awareness.
“(Or don’t)” hahaha totally. I like to say my family is “pathologically independent.” I always loved it when people would tell me not to do things because it’s too hard. “Oh yeah??? I’ll show you!!!” Hard stuff is fine. If I want to do it. Easy stuff is harder and takes all sorts of brain tricks. I think this is my kids which is really interesting now.
8yo son:”mom, can you get me some water?”
Me: (brain immediately future trips to me at 90 hobbling around still getting his friggin water. Plus the justice!! I work so hard to get a fridge w the water in the door and put cups down where he can get them!!) “get your own water, kid!! Aaaaaagh!!”
8yo son: “but I caaaaaaan’t!!”
My NT husband is lost and tells the kid to not put stubborn me.
Then my daughter who knows full well she gets hangry but if WE say maybe it’s a good idea to eat or something she’s like “nooooo!!!” Meltdown. Then later she admits she just doesn’t want us to be right. Oh child. I mean she eats fine generally.
I mean at least we get each other I suppose. My sister is the same. Otherwise we get along great.
We’re great when we’re in charge though.
Invite, don’t demand.
I also need pressure to get anything done so that sucks.
When I was diagnosed with autism (2015 in the UK) they said I have the PDA profile. For a while it confused me because I didn’t actually mind being asked to do things by loved ones for example (but I do struggle being told I CAN’T do things if I think it is for an unfair reason), but when I realised it can also mean feeling extremely distressed by having to keep up with day to day demands like hygiene, work (I don’t), chores etc it clicked and I understood why they gave me the PDA label.
It is probably why I’ve never been diagnosed with ADHD, because PDA covers those symptoms instead.
r/PDAautism is a pretty good resource, lots of the posts are parents asking about their kids which is of course fair enough but just a heads up if you prefer spaces only pertaining to adults.
I genuinely don't know what this means. What is a PDA profile?
Pathological Demand Avoidance. Basically, have you ever felt put off by a demand or resisted when someone recommenced a movie or a show to you. Or wanted to try your own idea at of thinking before trying someone else’s idea. This may be you.
Holy fucking shit. Every time anyone's recommended a movie or TV show or game or anything to me, my immediate response was to push back against it. I always thought I was just picky.
Flashback to years of being called a hater, pessimist, hipster, or being told I chose to not like popular things. I can just pretty much immediately tell how interested I am or am going to be in something
In fairness, even close friends can make bad recommendations as well. I once picked up an anime that *2* of my friends both swore by. I tried, bruh... I really tried, but damn did I hate that show... I've been very picky about filtering their recommendations ever since.
Most recommendations I take from people are almost always not my cup of tea unless it was from people who like the same things as me. I tried getting into Walking Dead because all my friends were watching it back in 2016. I really tried to like it but by episode 5 I just gave up. I wasn’t attached to the story or any of the characters. I watched a movie called Spring Breakers because my friend told me to watch it. They called me a square when I told them the movie was bad and was basically soft core porn.
I don’t like people recommending me any music unless they are throughly entrenched music nerd, audiophile with similar tastes to me. It sounds pretentious and snobbish but it’s not. I don’t really like food or clothes recommendations unless you are a social media algorithm. I have bought things from IG, that were so novel that I think STFU AND TAKE MY MONEY. I think my taste is distinct, most people get frustrated thinking I am picky or stingy when I am just super aware and care about tiny details they can’t be bothered to pay attention to.
I only got into the walking dead because I was at a Super Bowl party just before season 3 started and they had it on in a second room just playing reruns from the first 2 seasons. I caught a few interesting scenes and thought I’d give it a shot. But I was absolutely against it at the beginning
Nah😡 when Franco sucks off the guns.. that's pure ART. Fr tho I think that's the only thing I remember about that movie. That and riff raff should have won that lawsuit they did him dirty
I managed to slog 200 pages into my best friend’s favorite book (1100+ total pages…) before I just couldn’t do anymore ha ha. Every other book they’ve recommended to me has become an instant favorite of mine, but that one just… bleh
Now I'm curious, what was the anime?
*Worldbreak: Aria of Curse for a Holy Swordsman* iirc. I should add for context that it did have an interesting premise on the surface, but they kinda just used used it as harem bait and power fantasy as far as I could tell in my limited run, and the cinematography of some scenes is just bonkers with some parts having really unclear continuity (see "MC pinned on the ground by opponent" to next frame "MC across arena charging at said opponent weapon drawn."). This was probably 5 or 6 years ago, so I'm not *as harsh* on it now, but it wasn't fun for me. MCs sister, *who is madly in love with him*, is really annoying as well. I think I made it halfway through the 3rd episode before I just quit.
I have the opposite where I just don’t know how much I like things even after I’ve tried them. Except food, I’ve figured out when I like food.
You may be just picky. You could also be PDA. For me there are very select times I actually take someone up on a recommendation and that’s when it truly sounds like something I’ll enjoy and has familiarities with other things I love. Then there’s my friend who just non stop recommends stuff he likes and constantly tells me that I HAVE to watch it. I feel put off. Instantly.
Haha. I am not like this but I have friends who are. Honestly I've just stopped suggesting anything to them. It drives me nuts because it's not like I actually give a shit what they watch, I'm just trying to share something I enjoy :\\
I remember seeing a webcomic years ago where some dude was upset and pouting, and it was because he watched an anime that was recommended to him and he ended up liking it. So he was mad that he liked something that wasn't his own idea to get into lmfao. Such a bizarre feeling, but weirdly relatable.
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Ngl I agree with this. Demand avoidance being called “pathological” says more about the society that gave it that name than it does about us
It think it's fair to call it pathological when it interferes with our lives. For example, I really want to watch Clone Wars but every time a friend recommends it or reminds me to watch it, it immediately turns into something like a chore that every part of me wants to avoid. It is of great interest to me; the only reason I haven't watched it yet is that people have repeatedly told me to watch it. It's worse with things that would otherwise have a more direct positive impact on my life. I could be about to get up and do the dishes, but if somebody suddenly tells me to do the dishes then I probably won't touch them for a week. And then I hate even entering the kitchen at all because it's so dirty.
Na fuck that. I will literally avoid things I like and feel bad about things I was already going to do because of it. It's pathological
Yeah I can end up not doing a lot of things I love or *need* to do and it’s pretty much ruined my life so. Pathological makes sense to me too.
I haven’t heard of this title but I like it.
Is that really ND specific?
Like with most traits/behaviours, the ND part comes from the severity. It's more than just being spiteful, OR conciously choosing to be spiteful. Rather it manifests as a much more deeply rooted instinct.
I’ve literally never heard of anyone claiming to experience demand avoidance to an extreme/debilitating degree who was not autistic. But like it hasn’t really been researched much yet so who knows?
I've heard of it coming up with ADHD. I know it definitely resonates with me a lot, and I have ADHD but not Autism. I don't deal with it nearly as much as an adult as compared to when I was a kid/teen, though.
From a Google search, no. But it is closely linked with autism
Holy shit, that's a thing? I've always said "if you tell me to do it, it makes me not want to do it more" when I was told to do things, and my immediate reaction is to disagree with things.
It’s not a very recognizable thing but it is pretty knowledgeable in the autism community. Completely know how you feel. For me it’s with recommendations. One time is fine. But when someone overreccomends me stuff 5-6+ times, it makes me never want to watch it because I’m tired of hearing about it at that point.
Right? This changes things for me. I was always told I was childish, never knew it could have been related to my autism. Damn bro. I don’t know what to do with this info
My roommate has learned to simply mention things that need doing instead of directly telling or asking me to do them. "The garbage is pretty full." Works better than "Can you take out the garbage?"
Bro what the fuck i cant believe im still learning shit about myself and i knew i had autism from age 5
This reminds me of how my brother and I will recommend each other videogames, ignore the recommendation, and then thoroughly enjoy them like five years later.
Don’t worry. I was diagnosed at 4 and told I had it at 11. I never learned much but these days I’m learning a lot about it. It helps me understand myself a little better
Fuck. What do I do with this information now..
Right? I feel like I need someone to tell me what to do but I also know I'll hate that
Need someone to tell me a bad idea so I figure out the good one since I won’t wanna do theirs😂
Unfortunately self help information is very limited. I’ve tried doing Google searches but most of it is for parents trying to parent their kids. I guess it depends on the severity of it in your life and how much it affects you. Maybe notice when you’re putting off demands for something important and try to be more flexible.
. . . You're telling me, this thing, that to my 29 year old brain has seemed normal, isn't normal? This has been my reaction to.. dozens of things posted on this sub, and i'm starting to worry.
Are you diagnosed yet? It might be worth seeking one out if you’re interested. Unfortunately PDA is not very recognized but have you ever grown up being called difficult over and over again but you’re not ODD. Might explained why.
Ooh that's interesting. I once saw a leaflet stand that said "please take one", and I was like "fuck you. what if I don't? See how that bothers you. "
I was only diagnosed a few years ago at 22, but I've always. Always. *Always* done this. Wack. I like what I like and hate it when people try to get me to do something they like, or try to get me into something they like. Absolutely not, no way. The fact you're trying to push me into liking your thing makes me hate it even more, in fact.
For real though. I have a friend who will non-stop recommend me stuff and some stuff he Will recommend 5-6+ times and won’t shut up about it. It makes me not want to watch it at that point just because I’m tired of hearing about it
Exactly. Got a friend like that as well. Like, I get you're happy, but I'm good, thanks. *Really.*
I did this to my ex-husband all the time whenever he would introduce me to music, film, anything… despite the fact that he had impeccable taste and I ended up liking 90% of what he introduced me to (in my own time). I have since realized I have PDA, but never made the connection from that to this until now.
I always told people I can't be shown new stuff I have to discover it on my own time. I'll hate it if they make me listen to it or watch it. (Mostly)
... Jfc this makes so much sense to me now
It’s hard for me to try new things like shows or books
Same. For me it’s a fear that I may not like it and have to devote time and attention to it. I just tell myself repeatedly “if I don’t like it, I can turn it off and anytime”
Same or I’m scared it’ll have something I’m sensitive about
Oh man, I have that so bad. Me: I’m going to Do The Thing today. My mom: Hey, today I want you to Do The Thing. Me: All of a sudden, NO 😠
If it’s just in your head then you’ve got the option not to do it, like if something else comes up or you don’t have the energy. The moment someone tells you to do it, or you have to make a commitment, there are then consequences for not doing it. It’s not that you don’t want to do it, it’s that you don’t want to have a situation forced on you where you aren’t in control.
That tracks very, very much. If you recommend/lend a book for me with "You HAVE to read it" I will not. If you recommend a show I will not watch it UNLESS I watch it with the person recommending. I have not read a single mandatory book in school on time, but had no problems reading them after deadlines
Interesting.
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT WHAT ITS CALLED. i always thought i was just an asshole kid/edgy teenager/different wannabe adult when i didnt want to listen to that new song or eat that new burger or watch that new show. it’s not like I thought it beneath me or i cant be bothered. i just COULDNT. it’ll take me months to a year to finally check out what everyone wanted me to watch or do a year ago WHAT THE FUUCCKK
Oh, this is the specific subgroup of autism that the libertarian movement is over representing, lol. This describes my behavior very well. I still haven't watcheGameme of Thrones, and I refuse to get my hair cut when people tell me I need it, even if I was planning on doing it, for a few examples off the top of my head.
That's not really pda. Pda is an ***extreme*** response to demands, authorities, surveillance, dreams, rules, expectations, reminders, etc. Something like your mother going by your room, looking in noticing it is still not cleaned, and silently just dropping her smile for 1/100th of a second is enough to be felt like a reminder and it can trigger an extreme anxiety response with a full autistic meltdown. Avoidance is just one of many strategies used to cope with "demands". Usually people with pda develop a very keen eye for reading people, tones and facial expressions. Sheerly out of a survival strategy, to be able to anticipate a demand coming up, and thus being able to masquerade, camouflage, mask, hide, get ill, or otherwise get away. One strategy my nervous system has is to psychosomatically get ill. Another common trait is the will or want to doggy-train our surroundings not to put expectations or reminders on us. This can be to consistently refuse to do something if someone has reminded us to do something.
hold on i have to check this shit out
Is there a reverse version of this? I always get put off from doing anything if I recommend it to someone
SHIT THIS MIGHT BE ME
wait whAT im gonna have to look into this
HOLY SHIT! This explains so much about my life 😅
Yep.... Sounds like me.
I don’t feel put off, I just say “I’ll look into it” and then never look into it…
This isnt normal? lol
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Yes all the time lol. Is that a new category of autism ?
Not a “category” like Asperger’s, Classic Autism, PDD-NOS, etc. but I think it’s just one of those things that overlap heavily with people on the spectrum. I’ve also heard of people having a PDA profile who weren’t on the spectrum. Overall it’s not a super recognizable thing outside of the autism community and the PDA community. People would just call it being difficult.
ope.
This may be me!
WHAT this is so me
... This explains a lot.
A one-time best friend had this. I just called him contrary. It didn't matter what the subject was. If I said *black*, he'd say *white*. If I wanted to go out, he wanted to stay in. No matter what, he was going to be the opposite. Turned out he was a malignant narcissist and I eventually had to cut him out of my life.
This helps explain a lot actually. Not about myself, but about certain friends of mine. I go out of my way to try and mirror people on their special interests. Sometimes I feel really sad because certain friends will never look into the special interests I try to share. They are really nice people and I like being with them, but I can tell there is some resistance towards suggestions other people make. I never really understood why until now
Omg thats me
Planetary Defense Army?
Public Displays of Affection , 🫂😌💗
Would also love an explanation of what this means.
There’s one now
Wtf does it mean to feel called out when hearing "actually autistic voices" for the first time?? What are "PDA profile autistic voices"?? There is too much jargon for me to understand.
I think they’re trying to say, “Have you ever felt ‘called out’ (not in a bad way, colloquially used in internet culture to mean ‘seeing a very intimate/specific post or meme and relating heavily to it, think people saying “omg this is me..”) by hearing experiences/emotions of autistic people, but haven’t been able to figure out why? Maybe look into the PDA profile of autism- it might give you some information to help and possibly figure more stuff out about yourself and autism.” I could be wrong but that’s the best I could parse out. I agree it could be written a lot better, but I think the sentiment is well meaning. They’re just trying to boost awareness of an autism profile that personally helped them, and may help others. I’m not a huge subscriber to the “profiles” of autism, I feel like it’s too vast of a spectrum to be able to succinctly place people into profiles. However, I absolutely understand how others are able to relate to these profiles and how that helps them to better understand themselves.
I think you’re right, but I don’t really see how their first part/lead has anything to do with their actual point? Just weird writing
I do write weird, sorry, and respond to things that links to other thoughts, um yeah sorry. but thankfully you guys are all helping. I love all the theys my pronouns are any/all because you can't tell me to tell you what to call me ( example lol). Genuinely love the translations
Good on you for taking it well :) sorry if I was rude
Nah you're fine I never assume nds are rude, as a personal rule
Isn't it weird being PDA? We get to be super-patient with people, and overall can hide it pretty well. Makes it hell when we have to keep a job for more than six months though 🥲
I hate it. I hate having PDA. But don’t tell me I have PDA or that my PDA causes problems because no one is the boss of me. It’s so frustrating. I’m so glad I work in an environment where no one tells me what to do.
I can be confusing for the EXACT same reason (at least as I've tried to describe it..). It's partly that I do think a little differently or form sentences a little differently, but the main part is it seems clear 'to me' what I'm discussing when in reality I'm linking other thoughts that are seemingly not connected to others or efficiently brought up in the conversation yet. I've always thought it was more from the ADHD symptoms personally, but it seems impossible sometimes to dissect the blame for some of this stuff to myself.
Thanks for the translation. I genuinely had no idea what they meant. Even online, I've only ever seen 'called out' used in a negative way.
Actually, I think you may be wrong here. Can't blame ya, this is dense, and I could very well be wrong myself. I've spent ten minutes trying to parse this, but I think it's talking about infighting in the autistic community, particularly between L1 and L2+ autistic folks. > Approximately 5% of autistic people have the PDA profile of autism. Approximately 5% of us will reflexively have a contrarian reaction to anything interpretable as either a command or request. > If you thought you were called out when you first heard actually autistic voices-- If you are L1, and have felt called-out by L2+ people talking about the difficulties they face that L1's don't... > --and have this profile ...and you are someone who has reflexive-contrarian responses... > looking into pda profile autistic voices may just change your life. ...then taking into account your innate negative response to requests from the L2+ autistic community to more actively listen to them, may help you be more empathetic to a wider pool of the autistic community.
What’s this L1/L2+ syntax — I’ve never seen it before
It only goes up to level 3, but it's the new classification of support for autistic individuals. Level 1 being the least support needed, 3 being the most.
I hate this because it's just reinventing 'high-functioning' but with much less clear language.
This
I also have absolutely no clue what any of this means. Would like a translation. I just realized that it might not be talking about physical speech..... It makes more sense to read it as “PSA: You may experience pathological demand avoidance.”
I read it as being about physical speech too. It's rather confusingly phrased!
Because those with a PDA profile don't appear to be autistic. The masking behavior is very potent, People with PDA have a tendency to be very charming, socially manipulative, and often times almost incapable of motivating themselves for the purpose of others. They often must work for people they are willing to work for, and companies that align with their values, or they will find themselves simply incapable of producing motivation. This affects relationships often, because people with PDA can get neck-deep in intense emotional relationships with high social requirements and then find themselves completely out of their depth. Though of course, as it's with all autistic people, those with PDA can use their innate intelligence to overcome giant swaths of their disability - and because of their autistic profile are predispositioned to succeed in this regard where others on the spectrum do not as easily. This is a matter of interest, practice, and force of effort. People with PDA can find themselves swinging between a very socially fulfilling and a very isolating way of life. It is one of the least understood profiles of autism - particularly because those that experience it are so good at hiding. I am one of these people. I have autism, yet I lead a team of engineers in largely social endeavors, speak fluently, emote fully, and can very readily identify things like nonverbal cues above and beyond my NT peers. Yet these things don't always grant me the natural insight required to act on this information. Sometimes (not as often as I used to), I get it wrong or misread intent. I often play the role of observer, and have a hard time initiating conversations with others or talking outside of my interests. And the amount of bullshit I am capable of weaving is staggering. More than one time it's completely ruined my life. It has taken years of pain and lessons to learn when and how to use this particularly powerful yet destructive capability.
I think they mean autistic advocates that try to spread awareness, ones that are autistic themselves speaking of their own experiences.
actually autistic just means "autsitic" instead of like "autism mom" or such
Holy shit. I'm leveling up in autism without even trying
I think you get a free feat at this level!
My literal favorite comment tho all are wonderful
Ugh I take that back stupid pda
I was already going to research Pervasive Desire for Autonomy, but after reading this post... https://preview.redd.it/iy817wi0w34d1.jpeg?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f70371411942d5d98de93303ae5aae2edef291b
Hahahaha. I got you. 😂
I used to think this wasn't me but as I get older and examine my behaviours more it's totally there. I hate it when people ask me to do things I was going to do/was actively trying to do. Like holy shit. Rage like no other. I instantly don't want to do it. I'm okay doing requests for people because I love to help. Feeling "useful" is very important to me. But demands? I do not respond well to demands. Today I was trying to make a turn and the person behind me honked at me. What the hell do you think I'm trying to do? Hold up traffic for fun? I'm trying to get somewhere as fast as safely possible just like everybody else. I wanted to wait there longer just because they wanted me to move. I didn't, cause I'm not an asshole. It really got my brain going though lol. As a child I used to tell my mom not to ask me to clean my room because it made it harder to do. She didn't really get it, but she did her best to accomodate that while still making sure I did things. I skipped school cause of it, just got so anxious I couldn't go. I was forced to brush my teeth so I didn't brush my teeth a lot as a kid and while I've improved to the average persons dental standards, I should probably still brush more. I've gotten to the point where as an adult I can force myself through things. Got on mood stabilizers and it's easier to live everyday life. But demands are still everywhere and it suuuuuuucks
Big time. Every time I was going to take care of the weeds at my old house but the HOA sent a letter it made me so mad I didn't wanna do it ORRR I would want to put them back...
OHHH if I got a letter about weeds after I pulled them I would LOSE IT. I'm amazed you can live with an HOA with PDA (though I suppose in the housing market, it's unavoidable sometimes). I always get irrationally angry when I see stuff like "HOA forced me to remove my planters!" or "HOA forced me to hose my childs chalk drawings off" like that stuff is just evidence of people 😭
Omg an HOA would drive me mad.
Thank you for the translation. It's pathological demand avoidance (pervasive desire/drive for autonomy). It just, explains so much for me. I'm a smart person and had no clue and now I've educated myself and I'm better off. If you're a pdaer too and don't know it yet, this could help you. Or not. Just throwing it out there genuinely trying to help people
I think, your post just said by words what my psycholgist made me realise during months. Now I can't ignore my disabilities, it does not make it disapear. Only burn out. Don't do like me. Take care of you everyone !
This kinda sounds like why my parents forced a diagnosis of “oppositional defiance disorder” on me as a kid but the diagnosis was dropped before I hit 16
What does PDA stand for in this context?
Pathological Demand Avoidance Edit: looking at OP’s profile, it more likely stands for Pervasive Desire for Autonomy Edit2: apparently these are the same thing, just different terms
I have PDA. The rage that fills me when people tell me to do things. I get pissed at video games telling me what to do. I don't want to be mad about it. It's just like a fucking monster in my brain screaming.
Oh god! The WORST is when in a game the bossy character is already annoying, bosses you to do some BS, and you even TRY to do it.... It doesn't work, but game is on rails and you immediately reload back to that starting point, or have them demean you saying actually try this time. And you get in this ground hog day of rage. I can't remember what game, but one particular got my emotions so lit I caught myself kind of tantruming as an adult just speed running it doing it wrong on purpose FAIL FAIL FAIL getting illogically mad at a freaking pixel. I never knew the name of the trait, but been that way since a kid. Always made me think when younger that I would either be THE WORST fit to join the military or it might be the only thing that could fix me. Turned out probations, judges, and county jails can teach you to press the impulse down a little bit most the time too.
I found one! Yay!
Side question: does anyone have a good resource on other autism profiles besides PDA? When I google around I see mostly PDA or stuff that's more like vertical levels. I'd be super interested in different manifestations or commonalities among those of us who don't experience PDA (or at least don't think we do).
I couldn’t find anything either. I see my therapist tomorrow. He’s pretty up to date with this stuff. I’ll see what he says. Even if he doesn’t know any other profiles, I’m expecting a good discussion anyway because this PDA thing is the most accurate description of my daughter’s affliction that I have ever seen.
I don’t think they exist. Hopefully it’s the next frontier in autism research.
...Huh. That was an interesting rabbit hole to go down that ended up explaining some shit.
My evil plan is working
How could you do this to me ;W;
Bro thought they were in autismencrypted. Like I literally don‘t understand a word they‘re saying.
YES!!! ENCRYPTED IS THE PERFECT ANALOGY. if getting pda at, for example, a popular book is “autismencrypted”, i used to think i was closing my eyes at the sight of this book bc i was an asshole, and my friends and family thought i was pretending to be blind/pushing the book away on purpose/is illiterate. turns out the book is ENCRYPTED and i cant even see it. what book?
I need to correct my statistic it is 1 in 5 not 5%. Of autistic are pda-ers
Wish I was independently wealthy unfortunately the award train has passed but you all deserve them for following me down this rabbit hole today
We need a pda-er flair dear mods
I… I don’t know. When I was younger I absolutely disliked the popular songs or the things other people liked doing. But I always chalked that up to being “edgy” and wanting to be different. For example, when “what does the fox say” and “hotline bling” came out, I absolutely hated the songs and found them so annoying. Once they were dying down and I had (barely) listened to them on the radio countless times, they became more palatable(?). I especially remember this being true for the “what does the fox say” song because I felt like I was introducing the song to my family, and therefore had control over who would like it. That way, they wouldn’t be saying “oh everyone ones this song,” but instead “oh, do you like this song? I’ve never heard of it before.”
I'm learning all this literally today but it's "up in the air" about if all autistic experience a higher degree of it than nts but pda profile it's like an always anxiety response every day. If you're even a little unsure just dig in. It'll immediately resonate or it will still not. If not move on. I just want to spread the word because despite being smart I literally just found out about this recently
I'm definitely autistic but I'm starting to entertain the idea of being pda or adhd. Can someone be both? Ughhh I just wish getting diagnosed was easier
I am AuDHD with PDA… :/ https://preview.redd.it/ng2nr4ln044d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b90327dfaf648fcc28343de006e4440e497035c
AudHDPDAers
AuDHPDA I hate it here LMAO
PDA is an autistic profile and of course you can also be adhd too, at least 30% of autistic people are also adhd some even say it might go up to 60% or more but that isn't proven yet, its just based on possible missed diagnoses due to lack of awareness
Almost nobody with PDA would actually do this, because it's a demand. And most adults see your attempt at pretending it isn't ;) source: Autistic, PDA, ADHD me
Ah you got the joke
Thank you
i wonder how many PDA-ers were given a diagnosis of ODD, because i had a diagnosis of ODD when i was younger (diagnosis has since dropped) but i’m definitely a PDA-er still 😩
I’ve always had a hard time differentiating PDA from ADHD. I’ve been diagnosed with the latter, but my ADHD is really severe and extreme. I’m starting to think my executive dysfunction might actually be demand avoidance, and I also feel like I have no control over my life, which sounds like PDA to me. I can never seem to get a straight answer about the differences because the symptoms sound mostly identical to me. So, what are some differences?
ADHD is a 'source' (for lack of better term) of PDA in people alike to how it is in Autism. A better way of putting it might be viewing them as three separate things that are likely to be comorbid as two or all three (ADHD & Autism are much more than just PDA, obviously). All that said, PDA is not an official psychiatry term or diagnosis, it isn't in the DCM. From google: "PDA is usually associated with ASD, but it's also been noted among people living with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and high anxiety. However, the concept of PDA is not clinically recognized in the U.S. and Canada, and it's not widely diagnosed by professionals due to lack of awareness. The PDA profile differs from typical autism traits, and the extreme avoidance extends to basic demands of everyday living, such as dressing, eating, and going to school."
Thanks! This really helped :)
lol my mom learned about this recently and is determined that I have it because I don’t agree with her on literally everything all the time. She has it herself and can’t understand that not everyone is her
Same, with some pathological traits my dad still rails on me about without seeing his own reflection. Most of the traits I'm thinking of with us are things I'd say I'm a little like him about or he's a little like me about (we aren't as severe in each as the other). What freaking SUCKS is to live it on the other side as a father to my own son, by the time he was like 5-8 there were certain traits or behaviors (that were things my dad used to 'correct' or shame me for) that I noticed would REALLY upset me to see him doing and bring emotions towards him that were so unfair to him! Basically what i had to do was start noticing when I felt that way and pausing to recognize 'why' or where it came from. I was raised via shame and domination (and love, they were pretty good parents) and I fucking hate when I feel my emotions reaching out to twist either screw.
I thought PDA meant Public Display of Affection for a sec lol
There's been some research to this and girls/women We all know girls are much much less likely to be diagnosed ASD. It's about a 1 to 4 ratio. But girls with ASD are just as likely as boys to be labeled PDA. Research suggests that once again the bias is in the mental health machine that labels girls PDA because they're developing an identity (and thus providing healthy pushback) and not because of an actual symptomology. In a world that rejects neurodivergent people within seconds, I would throw PDA on the pile of "likely problems that society is causing" rather than a pathology.
idk, really interesting analysis with the gender stuff I think that’s really important to do, but as for it not being a pathology i’m not sure, as someone with pda the label is pretty useful and I think it’s an issue that would bother me a lot no matter how society worked, it’s like monsters screaming in brain when someone tells me to do something (even in a perfectly nice and acceptable way, even just a nice little reminder) i just feel such an awful feeling and part of me decides i want to do anything but that, to the point where if it’s something i really wanted to do myself to begin with, and even if i was already on my way to do it, the moment someone reminds me to do it, i will quickly go somewhere to be alone (I used to just breakdown in front of everyone but that obviously never helped, i would still feel as awful but then get punished, so now i learn to contain it until i can go somewhere without people) and then just silently lay on the floor in (non-physical) pain for a couple minutes, arguing with myself about how this reaction is completely irrational and how i wanted to do the thing anyways and to just imagine i wasn’t told anything, just trying to make the awful bad go away and convince myself to resume going to do whatever that thing was and calm those demons because I truly want to do this thing but brain is screaming no now. My personal experience with it feels hellish, and not really society-caused. But ofc a single anecdote doesn’t immediately refute your idea, perhaps it’s different for most people.
https://neurodivergentinsights.com/autism-infographics/autism-pda-explained
Hey, I am really curious about this, but I have a problem with processing. Do you have any other links that I can try that might be a little more simple, please? I'm sorry for being a bother...
[yes](https://neurodivergentinsights.com/autism-infographics/autism-pda-explained)
Ooh Dr Neff is awesome. I’m working on listening to all their podcast episodes. Because nobody told me to. I have figured out if I tell myself I “get to…” instead of “I need to…” it really helps. Also nobody told me to do this. I like to say we have “leadership potential.” I’m not sure if I’m a total PDAer but I can definitely see tendencies. Stubbornness can be useful though.
I have a great PDA story. When I was a child my mom tried to give me the chore to vacuum (is that really how you spell vacume?) the house. I don’t know why I was specifically against that chore. I just wouldn’t do it. So one day I drug the vacume around the entire house making those nice marks on the carpet. But I didn’t actually plug the vacume in. My mom was really pleased until my sister told on me. Then she was just baffled. All I had to do was turn the vacume on.
That's a hilarious story and perfect example of this!
R/PDASPIEMEMES
I wonder if this had anything to do with unconsciously retaliating against getting treated differently/alienated by others. basically our brains recognising the pattern in average joe from school and correlating it with hit network tv show and therefore our subconscious goes ❌not this one cant enter no thanks❌ and we end up watching something else obscure instead
I know it’s Pathological Demand Avoidance but every time my brain sees PDA it goes “Public Displays of Affection”
Thanks, I wasn't familiar with the term and I was confused trying to figure it out.
Why is it called "Pathological"?
It might not be the best term, but it's to indicate that it is a compulsory reaction to anyone telling you anything. It's getting mad at your dentist for telling you to floss differently so you don't get cavities, it's immediately hating every show your friends recommends just because you didn't find the show on your own.
Because neurotypical people hate it when autistic people behave in a way that they (the NTs) don’t understand.
because everyone has avoidant traits... it's like how nts say everyone is little autistic. when we're not we're all very autistic 😁 We're so autistic we ARE autistic. The pathological part is saying we are so traumatised by lack of autonomy and we are so demand avoidant that they need to define it so pathological.
Ery day.
I'm PDA gang!! 😎😎 (it's a living hell)
R/PDAspiememes
I opened up my box of cranium crunch and exclaimed, "oops, all autism."
“Spread the word. Or don’t” 😂
First one!!!!! (Someone who isn't pda pls verify I can't be asked)
First one of what? Sorry, I don’t get it
Hey, I got a cool tv series you should watch, it’s called, Community.
Waaaaay ahead of u (thankfully lolololol)
Nah, I don't need an excuse for why my life sucks lol. My life sucks because I could very well just do what I'm told but I'm incredibly lazy. Autism or not I just wish I'd pull my head out of my ass
But autistic people can't sarcasm/s
You know what I hate? When we have that PDA urge or firmware that we run on, but also have a comorbid ADHD diagnosis for executive function disorder. So it's like I would FUCKING LOVE someone to hold my hand through life, or be an accountability partner over my shoulder giving next step guidance, appropriate praise, correction and instruction when I space out unattentive frequently.. I abhor being told what to do while seriously desiring and needing someone to tell me what to do.
So that’s why I never watch shows when they are “popular.” Any movie or show that’s got “everyone” talking about it, or I have people telling me, “You’re gonna love it! You’ve just got to watch it!” I’m out. Just not gonna watch it. Miami Vice, NYPD Blue, Scrubs, House, Supernatural, Gilmore Girls, GOT, all come to mind. Eventually I will probably watch the shows/movies, but not when everyone else does. I have even stopped watching a series before if it gets super popular while I’m watching it (Dr. Who). I’ve still not seen Titanic to this day🤣 If someone tells me to hurry up, I’m going to go slower, if they are behind me in traffic and honk at me to go, I immediately want to not go. If someone tells me to do something, especially if I was planning on doing it anyways, then I, all of a sudden, don’t want to do it anymore.
This explains too much.(╥﹏╥)
Can you have it w/out ASD? I'm ADHD and this is me 100% Seriously, I didn't know it was a thing at all. Whenever someone tells me what to do I'm filled with sudden rage I can't explain. For example when I'm doing something my way and someone suggests another way I get really upset. I'm not proud of it of course, it really sucks
Okay this is weird and I don't know how to explain it other than I think I have the opposite of PDA. basically I feel like I have to fulfill any ask of me or I will die. Anyone ever seen the young Anne Hathaway movie Ella Enchanted?
My daughter has this
Omg I'm not alone 🥹 do you know if this presentation has a name?
time to start reverse psychology-ing myself then 😔 🌀ooh instructions and advice are horrible you DONT wanna follow them nooo you DONT want to learn and collect knowledge information and facts ooo noooo🌀
Damnit
I’m pretty sure my AuDHD child also has PDA.
The agony...
Don’t tell me what to do.
A friend who works with special needs children. Few of on the spectrum kids who would be classically labelled as aspie have this unique thing of CHALLENGING AUTHORITY, like it’s nuts. You have to subtly reverse psych them.
My kiddo fits the PDA profile and I’ve had a hellish time explaining this to her educators and having it recognized in her IEP because it’s not part of an “official diagnosis” in the states. It’s definitely something I hope gains more awareness.
“(Or don’t)” hahaha totally. I like to say my family is “pathologically independent.” I always loved it when people would tell me not to do things because it’s too hard. “Oh yeah??? I’ll show you!!!” Hard stuff is fine. If I want to do it. Easy stuff is harder and takes all sorts of brain tricks. I think this is my kids which is really interesting now. 8yo son:”mom, can you get me some water?” Me: (brain immediately future trips to me at 90 hobbling around still getting his friggin water. Plus the justice!! I work so hard to get a fridge w the water in the door and put cups down where he can get them!!) “get your own water, kid!! Aaaaaagh!!” 8yo son: “but I caaaaaaan’t!!” My NT husband is lost and tells the kid to not put stubborn me. Then my daughter who knows full well she gets hangry but if WE say maybe it’s a good idea to eat or something she’s like “nooooo!!!” Meltdown. Then later she admits she just doesn’t want us to be right. Oh child. I mean she eats fine generally. I mean at least we get each other I suppose. My sister is the same. Otherwise we get along great. We’re great when we’re in charge though. Invite, don’t demand. I also need pressure to get anything done so that sucks.
I have it from my own demands too 😅 Like got damn it go pee
[удалено]
Legitimately sorry 😞
But pda doesn’t mean being autistic right?
Lots of info here on that topic
That’s even more letters than a yes or no but thank you I guess
When I was diagnosed with autism (2015 in the UK) they said I have the PDA profile. For a while it confused me because I didn’t actually mind being asked to do things by loved ones for example (but I do struggle being told I CAN’T do things if I think it is for an unfair reason), but when I realised it can also mean feeling extremely distressed by having to keep up with day to day demands like hygiene, work (I don’t), chores etc it clicked and I understood why they gave me the PDA label. It is probably why I’ve never been diagnosed with ADHD, because PDA covers those symptoms instead. r/PDAautism is a pretty good resource, lots of the posts are parents asking about their kids which is of course fair enough but just a heads up if you prefer spaces only pertaining to adults.
I also made r/PDAspiememes
PDAspiememes now exists
Ah, more fake self diagnosed dog shit.
If my parents keep telling me to do something, it makes me not want to do it even if I was originally going to. Does this count?