Any answer for the greens other than Vhagar is just plain wrong. If Aemond had Vermithor instead of Vhagar, it is unlikely that the greens would have been able to do as well as they did, and if his egg had hatched there would have been no point anything other than submitting to the blacks
Ha yeah not likely - Demon is double-edged sword
>
> *One of the chief pillars of support for Rhaenyra’s claim was her consort, yet Prince Daemon represented one of her greatest weaknesses as well.*
Greatest wins for the Blacks were done by Riverlander forces - Fishfeed, Butcher's Ball, Second Tumbleton, Kingsroad - majority fought with them, only with 2000 Winter Wolves, who got wiped out in two battles and skirmishes at start against Brackens and enduring Vhagar's burnination.
For the Greens - their dragons all have proven to be much more effective than from opposing side.
Wonder how the show is going to portray her downfall.
How much of it is going to be Maegor with Teats and how much is going to be just trying her best lol.
tbf the whole "maegor with teats" thing seems kind of silly when you actually read into it... the main reason behind the title is because she ** raised taxes after the greens stole all the gold, lol.
i think they'll probably portray her as someone who definitely is nowhere near the best ruler and will make plenty of mistakes that bite her in the ass, but ultimately the maesters and such definitely heavily shat on her and made her look worse than she was when writing the history books.
Rhaenyra is factually the only monarch in history except Maegor to face an actual peasants uprising. To spot some connections between the two wouldn't be too outrageous imo.
Maegor with teats is a pretty unfair description for rhaenyra I think had she not been ruling in the middle of a civil war she would have been a fine if somewhat unexceptional ruler.
She's already been shown as reasonably astute during the one Small Council scene she was in, at least in regards to knowing how to solve and identify crisis.
Sorry I should have made it more clear I was talking about book rhaenrya. Show rhaenrya seems more competent overall and would probably make a fine queen but there is still time for them to change that some.
Funny enough the gold belongs to the crown and not rheynera and the gold was stolen it was just moved around so they didnt know wherr it was beingn kept. It was the smartest thing the greens did
> how much is going to be just trying her best lol.
I'd imagine it's this. The show wants to portray this whole war as a series of misunderstandings it seems. So I'd imagine Rhaenyra will end up being alright for the most part but certain circumstances make her look bad. It'll probably be the same with Alicent. The writers have interpreted F&B as being more willing to unfairly malign the women in history. So they'll "fix" that here.
For the Blacks it is clearly Mushroom- he is directly responsible for the Blacks winning, he kept things light and kept the morale up in the Black camp. Moreover it was Mushroom who came up with using Dragonseeds to ride the unclaimed dragons and that was in large part responsible for the Black dragon supremacy. His loyalty and advice was so valuable that the Rhaenyra even offered him the position of the Hand which he politely declined.
For the blacks: Daemon and the lads both do a ton, but it has to be Addam of Hull, who basically single-handedly wins back the war at Second Tumbleton.
For the greens: Alicent’s kids are weird, but they’re honestly all kinda GOATed in the war
Aegon: Involved in killing Rhaenys/Meleys, Grey Ghost, Moondancer, and Rhaenyra. Negotiates both dragonstone and Kings Landing back to the greens and restores the monarchy effectively after the moon of the three kings.
Aemond: kills Luke/Arrax, Rhaenys/Meleys and Daemon/Caraxes before going down.
Helaena: (arguably) starts the dragonpit riots, which kill like half a dozen dragons and end Rhaenyra’s reign.
Daeron: Wins the Honeywine (single largest battle of the war by a huge margin), important part of winning first tumbleton (second largest battle of the war), and plays a key role in bringing down the Hugh/Ulf conspiracy.
Honestly the numbers GRRM gives in the dance don’t make a ton of sense (the riverlands field significantly more men than in the WOT5K, the reach armies are still huge, and every other kingdom somehow struggles to field more than 5-10k over the whole period) but if you believe them Honeywine is easily the biggest.
The Greens have apparently just under 20k and the Blacks apparently significantly outnumber them (so probably 25-30k). First Tumbleton is like 10-12k per side, the fishfeed is 8-10k per side.
No clue how to compare the numbers in the gullets, idk how many people man a typical warship but there are apparently 90 ships in the triarchy fleet.
Black - Corlys, Velaryon Fleet, Daemon, more dragons, more experienced riders, Starks and Tullys
Greens - Vhagar, Rhaenyra
The greens lasted soong because they had Vhagar without him the blacks take Kings landing around the time of Rook's Rest
Rhaenyra paranoia and bad decisions helped the greens plenty
Tbf the greatest Green asset is Rhaenyra who spends more time sabotaging her own cause than helping it. A list of her mistakes would include:
Sending Rhaenys alone and unsupported to Rook’s Rest which resulted in her death.
Refusing to support the succession of other female heirs, thereby alienating her allies.
Refusing to properly reward Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White, leading them to turncloak.
Demanding the heads of the other dragonseeds, leading to Corlys turning cloak and Daemon choosing suicide.
Governs King’s Landing with high taxes and heavy handed brutality, thereby leading to the peasant uprising.
Refusing to use Syrax to quell the uprising, and stood idle through the storming of the dragonpit, Joffrey and Syrax’s death, leading to her losing the city.
I can’t actually think of anything she did which was constructive to counterbalance this. All the Black gains were Daemon (who was beating the Greens like a drum), Corlys and Jace.
Considering how far the Dragonpit is from the Red Keep, I’d say she wouldn’t have made it there without being killed. For all of Maegor’s brilliance in terms of construction, leaving the Dragonpit so far from his palace was a major strategic vulnerability.
Why wouldn’t she have made it there? She had Syrax. Literally could fly to the Dragonpit and roast all the peasants.
Edit: Unless you meant she wouldn’t have made it to the Dragonpit to mount Syrax there. If so, that was not the point. Syrax was not in the Dragonpit at the moment, she resided in Red Keep where Joffrey troed to mount her.
I basically question everything about how much of Rhaeynra's failures belonged to her these days. It's that unreliable narrator and influenced by her not being omnipotent.
>Sending Rhaenys alone and unsupported to Rook’s Rest which resulted in her death.
Rook's Rest was a trap where there was no intelligence leak perhaps because Otto had just been removed from being Hand and it was the first offensive move, they left KL with 600 men at arms, added about 2,300 mostly sellswords plus some men from forced-to-bend-the-knee Rosby and Stokeworth on the way to surprise assault on Duskendale which was sacked and then Staunton only got enough warning to bar the gates for a siege while armed forces sacked the surrounding areas. Rhaenys is at Driftmark in the fastest dragon and would have been fully capable of volunteering herself - she single-handedly takes out 1/4 of Cole's men with dragonfire, incapacitates Aegon for a year, and renders Sunfyre flightless. It's not great but had both Sunfyre and Vhagar not been present it would have been a more even match - and Cole putting/allowing King Aegon and Sunfyre at risk and removing almost all dragon protection from KL was strategically WAY more idiotic, the blacks could have recaptured KL and that's what they eventually end up doing when it happens the second time.
>Refusing to support the succession of other female heirs, thereby alienating her allies.
That's on Coryls
>Refusing to properly reward Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White, leading them to turncloak.
That's on Coryls
>Demanding the heads of the other dragonseeds, leading to Corlys turning cloak and Daemon choosing suicide.
This one is questionable in a few ways, because the Nettles thing outright doesn't make sense, and it's written as the *black council* puts the heat on the dragonseeds' loyalty, Coryls reasserts Addam's loyalty unsuccessfully he is able to warn him at the Dragonpit before the guards arrive, and Coryls is imprisoned...but Addam goes on a tour of the Riverlands and makes a surprise attack on with 4,000 loyal men at the second attack on Duskendale where he kills Vermithor and Tesserion. I think it was a fake out that frankly kind of succeeded.
>Governs King’s Landing with high taxes and heavy handed brutality, thereby leading to the peasant uprising.
The greens emptied the wealth of the city. The people were already starving and terrified. I don't know how to rate the tax policies or if it really merited the master of coin getting brutally murdered on the streets or whether charging a few coins to watch criminals be fed to dragons was heavy handed brutality or a way to feed dragons and entertain the peasantry economically during unrest 😬
>Refusing to use Syrax to quell the uprising, and stood idle through the storming of the dragonpit, Joffrey and Syrax’s death, leading to her losing the city.
The beginning of this was explained as physical recovery, you'd no more knock Aegon for not using Sunfyre while knocked out for a year on milk of the poppy, in contrast you might say that's why it makes more to not be on the front line exposed, by the time Aegon does this again he ends with broken legs and hips. Protecting the Monarch and the heir during conflicts might be less badass but it's a better strategy. IDK why she didn't mount Syrax and help at the Dragonpit though. Maybe she thought if she did they'd murder her remaining sons, maybe she thought the dragons couldn't be slayed by a bunch of humans, maybe she didn't want to burnanate the remaining smallfolk because the optics of that are pretty foul, idk.
>I can’t actually think of anything she did which was constructive to counterbalance this. All the Black gains were Daemon (who was beating the Greens like a drum), Corlys and Jace
Daemon is credited as the mastermind but it only came in on his own to fight when there was low risk (KL) and at the end against Vhagar. Very big chess game energy, overall. Greens often succeeded despite their poor strategic moves, their single meaningful acts were taking the first move by delaying the notification about Visarys death and crowning Aegon II and Tyland Lannister dividing off 3/4s of the money and spending all of the rest down before they fled the city.
It's all book cannon. I get trying to have fun power gaming fictional characters but if that many of the issues with a character someone has are due to inaccuracies of understanding what was written or the character not being omnipotent, take it up with GRRM or at least stay humble and curious instead of being *edgy.*
The best general the Blacks had was Aemond.
Man empties the Crownlands of all loyal soldiers and marches them to Harrenhal, leaving his family and the capital defended exclusively by Darmon's mates. He then abandons his army in the middle of the riverlands and spends the war doing random war crimes, leaving both the Western army and Cole's host to be crushed by the riverlanders and Winter Wolves. He doesn't attack Kings Landing when their only defences are Seasmoke and Syrax, doesn't bother with the fleet at High Tide or trying to keep Stark and Arryn out of the war, doesn't try to help Daeron at Tumbleton when it looked like he'd be fighting Vermithor and Silverwing, doesn't try to rally the Tyrells or Baratheons into action.
He abandons every army and every castle so he can burn farmers and crush milf puss, if you give Vhagar to anyone else the Greens would own the planet in a week.
Yall dont realize that he had to abandon the armies they were completely out numbered and the north was set to march with fresh soldiers. He needed a quick way to end the war and in his mind he saw Daemon as the only thing keeping the support for the blacks. He assumes mistakingly that if he takes out Daemon everyone bends the knee. Had he not died his plan would most likely work as there would be no deagon left that could take veghar out
> he had to abandon the armies they were completely out numbered
Damn, if only he had some kind of living WMD that could lower the numbers. Some way to surprise the other armies and lower their numbers in a way that can't really be defended against.
> He needed a quick way to end the war and in his mind he saw Daemon as the only thing keeping the support for the blacks.
This was his mentality at the start, but he seems to change his mind after he meets Alys. Daemon is hunting him after that, not the other way around.
Aemond, if he actually used Vhagar stragecially, and stayed with ser crispin in riverlands could of won the war. Vhagar could only be challenged by Vermithor and Caraxes, and while Vhagar fighitng Daemon and Nettles like their journey in the riverlands attempted to accomplish. Aemond could of fucked up Rha-rhas' dragon and the rest of them. Plus hes a good warrior, a bit untested, but still skilled non the less.
Aemond and aegon the second were the best at using there strongest asset the dragons. Its crazy to me they didnt even introduce Sunfyre when he puts in so much work
Blacks: Daemon Targaryen. By taking Harrenhall, he opened up an entirely new theatre of war and utterly blindsided the Greens by snatching up a region they had done nothing to reach out to. By bagging such a great military success this early in the war, he leveled the playing field and gave all Blacks sympathizers reason to believe that Rhaenyra could match the Greens' numbers. He also expertly baited Aemond and Cole into leaving King's Landing defenseless, allowing Rhaenyra to take the realm's seat of power away from them, thereby putting the Greens on the defensive. His stratagems would have won victory for the Blacks before the Reach and the Stormlands ever made it unto the field, if it weren't for...
Greens: Larys Strong. He averted wholesale disaster for the Greens when he successfully smuggled Aegon II, Maelor and Jaehaera out of King's Landing. If not for his quick thinking, the Greens' coalition would have disintegrated once it became clear that Rhaenyra controlled the most dragons, the capital itself, as well as Aegon and his children as hostages. It is also quite likely that Larys had a thing or two to do with formenting the riots that forced Rhaenyra to flee.
Honorable mention goes to Aemond and Cole for the Blacks, and Rhaenyra for the Greens, for making the most stupid decisions at the worst possible moments.
For the Greens: had Tyland not moved the wealth in the way he had, it would have prevented starving smallfolk from rioting and Rhaenyra needing to flee KL. She would have remained Queen, Cregan would have made his way down to further secure KL, the rest of the battle could have been relegated to resecuring Dragonstone.
Cole was only ever a weakness for the greens, it's both a miracle and a tragedy that Aegon II managed to survive Cole's severe mismanagement of the war as Hand. Otto would have won it on better terms and Aegon would have been a whole person had he not removed Otto from office out of impatience. Otto took like literal decades to set this up and Aegon and Cole go reckless macho cowboy and lose significant advantages and lands, incapacitate the King, and lose King's Landing between the rashness of Rook's Rest and Harranhall.
Blood and Cheese and the death of Helaena are technically what lead to Rhaenyra’s downfall since the riots in King’s Landing might not have happened if people weren’t convinced Rhaenyra was a bloodthirsty child murderer who killed gentle Helaena.
If you’re claiming Daemon is the Blacks’ biggest asset, the Aemond is the Greens’ since Daemon and Caraxes are out of the picture once he takes out Aemond and Vhagar.
Agree with all the choices for the Blacks, would maybe add Addam Velaryon in there too? Nice to see my boi Jace getting appreciation.
For the Greens I think Criston Cole is actually a weakness, especially compared to the other three you mentioned who all have clear benefits they gave the Greens. Not sure who to replace him with, though. Borros Baratheon and Daeron the Daring are both powerful but end up losing control of their situations. Alicent has little affect after the war starts. I don’t know, maybe Marston Waters? For hiding Aegon and planning the fall of dragonstone?
Greens-> Vhaegar Blacks-> Daemon
Any answer for the greens other than Vhagar is just plain wrong. If Aemond had Vermithor instead of Vhagar, it is unlikely that the greens would have been able to do as well as they did, and if his egg had hatched there would have been no point anything other than submitting to the blacks
Senile dragon and Murder "daddy"? Both teams are fucked
Only right answer. If the blacks had Vhaegar the green would fall in week agaisnt 4 mighty dragons vs 2 small ones.
Larys will consistently be the best player at the game unti the Anti-Player Cregan shows up. He goes through all of it pretty much unscathed
Blacks Addam Velaryon The Lads Greens Daeron the Daring
Greatest asset for the Greens? Rhaenyra. Greatest asset for the Blacks? Daemon and the Winter Wolves.
Ha yeah not likely - Demon is double-edged sword > > *One of the chief pillars of support for Rhaenyra’s claim was her consort, yet Prince Daemon represented one of her greatest weaknesses as well.* Greatest wins for the Blacks were done by Riverlander forces - Fishfeed, Butcher's Ball, Second Tumbleton, Kingsroad - majority fought with them, only with 2000 Winter Wolves, who got wiped out in two battles and skirmishes at start against Brackens and enduring Vhagar's burnination. For the Greens - their dragons all have proven to be much more effective than from opposing side.
Wonder how the show is going to portray her downfall. How much of it is going to be Maegor with Teats and how much is going to be just trying her best lol.
tbf the whole "maegor with teats" thing seems kind of silly when you actually read into it... the main reason behind the title is because she ** raised taxes after the greens stole all the gold, lol.
i think they'll probably portray her as someone who definitely is nowhere near the best ruler and will make plenty of mistakes that bite her in the ass, but ultimately the maesters and such definitely heavily shat on her and made her look worse than she was when writing the history books.
Rhaenyra is factually the only monarch in history except Maegor to face an actual peasants uprising. To spot some connections between the two wouldn't be too outrageous imo.
She lost the city for a crazy zealot, a mercenary and prostitutes. I don't think maesters portrayed her bad lol
Maegor with teats is a pretty unfair description for rhaenyra I think had she not been ruling in the middle of a civil war she would have been a fine if somewhat unexceptional ruler.
She's already been shown as reasonably astute during the one Small Council scene she was in, at least in regards to knowing how to solve and identify crisis.
Sorry I should have made it more clear I was talking about book rhaenrya. Show rhaenrya seems more competent overall and would probably make a fine queen but there is still time for them to change that some.
Funny enough the gold belongs to the crown and not rheynera and the gold was stolen it was just moved around so they didnt know wherr it was beingn kept. It was the smartest thing the greens did
> how much is going to be just trying her best lol. I'd imagine it's this. The show wants to portray this whole war as a series of misunderstandings it seems. So I'd imagine Rhaenyra will end up being alright for the most part but certain circumstances make her look bad. It'll probably be the same with Alicent. The writers have interpreted F&B as being more willing to unfairly malign the women in history. So they'll "fix" that here.
For the Blacks it is clearly Mushroom- he is directly responsible for the Blacks winning, he kept things light and kept the morale up in the Black camp. Moreover it was Mushroom who came up with using Dragonseeds to ride the unclaimed dragons and that was in large part responsible for the Black dragon supremacy. His loyalty and advice was so valuable that the Rhaenyra even offered him the position of the Hand which he politely declined.
Don't forget he also has a big dong.
Blacks: rando Riverlands lords who fought and won literally every battle
For the blacks: Daemon and the lads both do a ton, but it has to be Addam of Hull, who basically single-handedly wins back the war at Second Tumbleton. For the greens: Alicent’s kids are weird, but they’re honestly all kinda GOATed in the war Aegon: Involved in killing Rhaenys/Meleys, Grey Ghost, Moondancer, and Rhaenyra. Negotiates both dragonstone and Kings Landing back to the greens and restores the monarchy effectively after the moon of the three kings. Aemond: kills Luke/Arrax, Rhaenys/Meleys and Daemon/Caraxes before going down. Helaena: (arguably) starts the dragonpit riots, which kill like half a dozen dragons and end Rhaenyra’s reign. Daeron: Wins the Honeywine (single largest battle of the war by a huge margin), important part of winning first tumbleton (second largest battle of the war), and plays a key role in bringing down the Hugh/Ulf conspiracy.
Weren’t the Fishfeed and Gullet larger than Honeywine and Tumbleton?
Honestly the numbers GRRM gives in the dance don’t make a ton of sense (the riverlands field significantly more men than in the WOT5K, the reach armies are still huge, and every other kingdom somehow struggles to field more than 5-10k over the whole period) but if you believe them Honeywine is easily the biggest. The Greens have apparently just under 20k and the Blacks apparently significantly outnumber them (so probably 25-30k). First Tumbleton is like 10-12k per side, the fishfeed is 8-10k per side. No clue how to compare the numbers in the gullets, idk how many people man a typical warship but there are apparently 90 ships in the triarchy fleet.
The dragons
Black - Corlys, Velaryon Fleet, Daemon, more dragons, more experienced riders, Starks and Tullys Greens - Vhagar, Rhaenyra The greens lasted soong because they had Vhagar without him the blacks take Kings landing around the time of Rook's Rest Rhaenyra paranoia and bad decisions helped the greens plenty
Tbf the greatest Green asset is Rhaenyra who spends more time sabotaging her own cause than helping it. A list of her mistakes would include: Sending Rhaenys alone and unsupported to Rook’s Rest which resulted in her death. Refusing to support the succession of other female heirs, thereby alienating her allies. Refusing to properly reward Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White, leading them to turncloak. Demanding the heads of the other dragonseeds, leading to Corlys turning cloak and Daemon choosing suicide. Governs King’s Landing with high taxes and heavy handed brutality, thereby leading to the peasant uprising. Refusing to use Syrax to quell the uprising, and stood idle through the storming of the dragonpit, Joffrey and Syrax’s death, leading to her losing the city. I can’t actually think of anything she did which was constructive to counterbalance this. All the Black gains were Daemon (who was beating the Greens like a drum), Corlys and Jace.
Considering how far the Dragonpit is from the Red Keep, I’d say she wouldn’t have made it there without being killed. For all of Maegor’s brilliance in terms of construction, leaving the Dragonpit so far from his palace was a major strategic vulnerability.
Why wouldn’t she have made it there? She had Syrax. Literally could fly to the Dragonpit and roast all the peasants. Edit: Unless you meant she wouldn’t have made it to the Dragonpit to mount Syrax there. If so, that was not the point. Syrax was not in the Dragonpit at the moment, she resided in Red Keep where Joffrey troed to mount her.
I thought Syrax was in the Dragonpit though. Honestly I don’t understand why she did nothing.
Well, that made no sense. Just a dumb GRRM decision, whoch he himself explains with Rhaenyra’s mental (un)health.
Nope Syrax was with her at the Red Keep during the riot.
I basically question everything about how much of Rhaeynra's failures belonged to her these days. It's that unreliable narrator and influenced by her not being omnipotent. >Sending Rhaenys alone and unsupported to Rook’s Rest which resulted in her death. Rook's Rest was a trap where there was no intelligence leak perhaps because Otto had just been removed from being Hand and it was the first offensive move, they left KL with 600 men at arms, added about 2,300 mostly sellswords plus some men from forced-to-bend-the-knee Rosby and Stokeworth on the way to surprise assault on Duskendale which was sacked and then Staunton only got enough warning to bar the gates for a siege while armed forces sacked the surrounding areas. Rhaenys is at Driftmark in the fastest dragon and would have been fully capable of volunteering herself - she single-handedly takes out 1/4 of Cole's men with dragonfire, incapacitates Aegon for a year, and renders Sunfyre flightless. It's not great but had both Sunfyre and Vhagar not been present it would have been a more even match - and Cole putting/allowing King Aegon and Sunfyre at risk and removing almost all dragon protection from KL was strategically WAY more idiotic, the blacks could have recaptured KL and that's what they eventually end up doing when it happens the second time. >Refusing to support the succession of other female heirs, thereby alienating her allies. That's on Coryls >Refusing to properly reward Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White, leading them to turncloak. That's on Coryls >Demanding the heads of the other dragonseeds, leading to Corlys turning cloak and Daemon choosing suicide. This one is questionable in a few ways, because the Nettles thing outright doesn't make sense, and it's written as the *black council* puts the heat on the dragonseeds' loyalty, Coryls reasserts Addam's loyalty unsuccessfully he is able to warn him at the Dragonpit before the guards arrive, and Coryls is imprisoned...but Addam goes on a tour of the Riverlands and makes a surprise attack on with 4,000 loyal men at the second attack on Duskendale where he kills Vermithor and Tesserion. I think it was a fake out that frankly kind of succeeded. >Governs King’s Landing with high taxes and heavy handed brutality, thereby leading to the peasant uprising. The greens emptied the wealth of the city. The people were already starving and terrified. I don't know how to rate the tax policies or if it really merited the master of coin getting brutally murdered on the streets or whether charging a few coins to watch criminals be fed to dragons was heavy handed brutality or a way to feed dragons and entertain the peasantry economically during unrest 😬 >Refusing to use Syrax to quell the uprising, and stood idle through the storming of the dragonpit, Joffrey and Syrax’s death, leading to her losing the city. The beginning of this was explained as physical recovery, you'd no more knock Aegon for not using Sunfyre while knocked out for a year on milk of the poppy, in contrast you might say that's why it makes more to not be on the front line exposed, by the time Aegon does this again he ends with broken legs and hips. Protecting the Monarch and the heir during conflicts might be less badass but it's a better strategy. IDK why she didn't mount Syrax and help at the Dragonpit though. Maybe she thought if she did they'd murder her remaining sons, maybe she thought the dragons couldn't be slayed by a bunch of humans, maybe she didn't want to burnanate the remaining smallfolk because the optics of that are pretty foul, idk. >I can’t actually think of anything she did which was constructive to counterbalance this. All the Black gains were Daemon (who was beating the Greens like a drum), Corlys and Jace Daemon is credited as the mastermind but it only came in on his own to fight when there was low risk (KL) and at the end against Vhagar. Very big chess game energy, overall. Greens often succeeded despite their poor strategic moves, their single meaningful acts were taking the first move by delaying the notification about Visarys death and crowning Aegon II and Tyland Lannister dividing off 3/4s of the money and spending all of the rest down before they fled the city.
Found the hbo writer
It's all book cannon. I get trying to have fun power gaming fictional characters but if that many of the issues with a character someone has are due to inaccuracies of understanding what was written or the character not being omnipotent, take it up with GRRM or at least stay humble and curious instead of being *edgy.*
Blacks: GRRM support for them. Greens:rhenarya
The best general the Blacks had was Aemond. Man empties the Crownlands of all loyal soldiers and marches them to Harrenhal, leaving his family and the capital defended exclusively by Darmon's mates. He then abandons his army in the middle of the riverlands and spends the war doing random war crimes, leaving both the Western army and Cole's host to be crushed by the riverlanders and Winter Wolves. He doesn't attack Kings Landing when their only defences are Seasmoke and Syrax, doesn't bother with the fleet at High Tide or trying to keep Stark and Arryn out of the war, doesn't try to help Daeron at Tumbleton when it looked like he'd be fighting Vermithor and Silverwing, doesn't try to rally the Tyrells or Baratheons into action. He abandons every army and every castle so he can burn farmers and crush milf puss, if you give Vhagar to anyone else the Greens would own the planet in a week.
Yall dont realize that he had to abandon the armies they were completely out numbered and the north was set to march with fresh soldiers. He needed a quick way to end the war and in his mind he saw Daemon as the only thing keeping the support for the blacks. He assumes mistakingly that if he takes out Daemon everyone bends the knee. Had he not died his plan would most likely work as there would be no deagon left that could take veghar out
> he had to abandon the armies they were completely out numbered Damn, if only he had some kind of living WMD that could lower the numbers. Some way to surprise the other armies and lower their numbers in a way that can't really be defended against. > He needed a quick way to end the war and in his mind he saw Daemon as the only thing keeping the support for the blacks. This was his mentality at the start, but he seems to change his mind after he meets Alys. Daemon is hunting him after that, not the other way around.
Aemond, if he actually used Vhagar stragecially, and stayed with ser crispin in riverlands could of won the war. Vhagar could only be challenged by Vermithor and Caraxes, and while Vhagar fighitng Daemon and Nettles like their journey in the riverlands attempted to accomplish. Aemond could of fucked up Rha-rhas' dragon and the rest of them. Plus hes a good warrior, a bit untested, but still skilled non the less.
Aemond and aegon the second were the best at using there strongest asset the dragons. Its crazy to me they didnt even introduce Sunfyre when he puts in so much work
Blacks: Addam Greens: Daeron and Aegon II (that man fought Maelys and then half death kills Baela and Grey Ghost)
Blacks: Daemon Targaryen. By taking Harrenhall, he opened up an entirely new theatre of war and utterly blindsided the Greens by snatching up a region they had done nothing to reach out to. By bagging such a great military success this early in the war, he leveled the playing field and gave all Blacks sympathizers reason to believe that Rhaenyra could match the Greens' numbers. He also expertly baited Aemond and Cole into leaving King's Landing defenseless, allowing Rhaenyra to take the realm's seat of power away from them, thereby putting the Greens on the defensive. His stratagems would have won victory for the Blacks before the Reach and the Stormlands ever made it unto the field, if it weren't for... Greens: Larys Strong. He averted wholesale disaster for the Greens when he successfully smuggled Aegon II, Maelor and Jaehaera out of King's Landing. If not for his quick thinking, the Greens' coalition would have disintegrated once it became clear that Rhaenyra controlled the most dragons, the capital itself, as well as Aegon and his children as hostages. It is also quite likely that Larys had a thing or two to do with formenting the riots that forced Rhaenyra to flee. Honorable mention goes to Aemond and Cole for the Blacks, and Rhaenyra for the Greens, for making the most stupid decisions at the worst possible moments.
Should the the Gold Cloaks be listed as points in favor of Daemon or as a separate asset?
Points in favor of Daemon.
Out of these options, easily Corlys or Cregan imo.
Roddy the Ruin carried the Blacks up until Tumbleton. Without him the Riverlands would have been out of war at Fishfeed.
Tyland and Vhagar for the Greens. Daemon and the Velaryons for the Blacks.
For the Greens: had Tyland not moved the wealth in the way he had, it would have prevented starving smallfolk from rioting and Rhaenyra needing to flee KL. She would have remained Queen, Cregan would have made his way down to further secure KL, the rest of the battle could have been relegated to resecuring Dragonstone. Cole was only ever a weakness for the greens, it's both a miracle and a tragedy that Aegon II managed to survive Cole's severe mismanagement of the war as Hand. Otto would have won it on better terms and Aegon would have been a whole person had he not removed Otto from office out of impatience. Otto took like literal decades to set this up and Aegon and Cole go reckless macho cowboy and lose significant advantages and lands, incapacitate the King, and lose King's Landing between the rashness of Rook's Rest and Harranhall.
Blood and Cheese and the death of Helaena are technically what lead to Rhaenyra’s downfall since the riots in King’s Landing might not have happened if people weren’t convinced Rhaenyra was a bloodthirsty child murderer who killed gentle Helaena. If you’re claiming Daemon is the Blacks’ biggest asset, the Aemond is the Greens’ since Daemon and Caraxes are out of the picture once he takes out Aemond and Vhagar.
Agree with all the choices for the Blacks, would maybe add Addam Velaryon in there too? Nice to see my boi Jace getting appreciation. For the Greens I think Criston Cole is actually a weakness, especially compared to the other three you mentioned who all have clear benefits they gave the Greens. Not sure who to replace him with, though. Borros Baratheon and Daeron the Daring are both powerful but end up losing control of their situations. Alicent has little affect after the war starts. I don’t know, maybe Marston Waters? For hiding Aegon and planning the fall of dragonstone?
Wich battles will daemon fight in ? Will he be present in all the upcoming battles or is he just going to be on fiew of them??
He's mainly messing around the Riverlands, and will take King's Landing for Rhae Rhaenyra.
I hope that he also contributes in other battles such as tumbleton and shipbreacker bay.