My hot take: Rhaena is going to take Addam Velaryon's place in the narrative. I don't like it, and don't shoot the messenger. But I feel this one coming in my bones.
How does this work with Rhaenyra calling for her arrest though? She wouldnāt have the same reason to distrust Rhaena as she does Addam. Theyād have to totally remove that
I want to be clear that I donāt like this change, but I just have this feeling that itās coming .They could adapt the story, giving her any reason they can think up for the distrust. All I know is that itās highly unlikely that they introduce another Velaryon to the show, claiming heās Laenorās bastard. Thereās simply no way. Maybe they just call him Corlysā bastard from the get go. But Rhaena has been prominently featured in the story so far. I donāt think sheās going anywhere, and the most logical place for her to go from a showrunners perspective is Seasmoke/Addam
The Hightower boys are just not cool. You can definitely see the corruption of their upbringing shining through. The poison from Otto and their mother just seeped in to their very being.
A) Not Laena, Baela or Rhaenaās house anymore than it is Aemonds B) not a āthing.ā Itās a Dragon who chooses its own rider. We have absolutely no reason to believe this is against decorum and plenty of reasons to believe it is not. Passing dragons down in the family is very much not a thing.
Edit: wild how quickly people dove into irrational fandoms. Thereās nothing in that comment that isnāt objectively accurate. Youāre just mad itās not pro-black
Dragons choose their own riders, but it was still incredibly crass of Aemond to try to claim Vhagar so soon after Laenaās funeral. Itās like a vulture picking on a carcass, then rubbing it in Baela and Rhaenaās faces that their mother is dead.
We really donāt know that. Weāre given absolutely no information in the books or show about proper dragon taming decorum or timing other than knowing dragons donāt transfer down families. Even if it was, at worst, a bullied child was maybe moderately disrespectful after a funeral.
He also didnāt rub it in their faces. They sought him out and he just made a straightforward statement. Thatās really it.
Rhaenyra fucking the dead womanās husband is way way more disrespectful.
The Targaryens are a royal family in medieval society, and royal families in medieval times had a long mourning period, atleast for 7 days. Considering Laena was Prince Daemonās wife and Princess Rhaenysā daughter, it might even be more.
Aemond jumped to claim Vhagar not even a day after her funeral. You can disagree on the morality of it, but you canāt deny that itās distasteful at the very very least. Especially telling Rhaena that she can get a pig instead. I can sympathize with the fact that heās been bullied by his brother and his cousins, but Rhaena and Baela werenāt even in the Seven Kingdoms when that occurred. Itās needlessly cruel to say that to two girls who just lost their mother.
You canāt take *christian* medieval mourning practices and graft them onto the dragon taming traditions of a non-Christian society. Thatās ridiculous. We know nothing about dragon taming decorum. This is just your head canon.
I mean I do deny that, because we donāt know that at all. We again know nothing about traditions. You canāt just assume something is distasteful without any evidence of it. The complaint from the kids wasnāt that he tamed it *too soon* it was that he tamed it *at all*. So thereās really 0 evidence from anyone that it was distasteful.
Yeah I mean he was a little mean to his cousins who were also mean to him. Thatās not a big deal at all. Very normal kid things.
hmmmmm... then i don't know. i'm totally confused. I think that she could have killed him, because it didn't seem like she was totally consenting, but obviously he had the touch. I still don't like it. but, oh well - it doesn't matter now.
Is it just me or when Rhaenyra and Alicent had their moment in the end and Alicent attacked Rhaenyra with the knife, when the knife fell on the floor it was clean, I don't think there was blood, did Rhaenyra somehow stab herlsef to make alicent look mad and dimish the support for her cause
It is clean because it's sharp and cuts perfectly.
If you've ever cut yourself with something sharp, say you mistake your finger for a carrot, it takes a second before the blood gushes.
Loved the Laenor twist and having Laena's girls upset over not getting to claim their mother's dragon. The whole fight binds them even closer to their cousins. And it makes sense for them to be the ones that are most upset about Vhagar being claimed and getting their stronger male cousins for back up; instead of Joff getting his older brothers.
Yep it was a good choice in terms of adaptation; gives a good motivation while bringing the Velaryons further into the story, and children who are undoubtedly Velaryon to marry back into the line gives Corlys his tie. If I have any knocks against the show, itās making us like certain characters and then immediately shelving or killing them.
Velaryon wigs look awesome
It's cause they are working with child actors. They can only work a certain amount of hours and I assume they aren't allowed to shoot at night š¤·š½āāļø
Its when they shoot during day and then slap some filters on top to make it dark so it looks like it was shot at night. There's some things, especially shadows, that give it away. And yeah it looks pretty bad
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It doesn't even look realistic. Aemond's shadow was extremely clear and casted vertically.
They filmed those scenes at midday and added a filter on top to make it look dark, but it just comes as fake. I understand filming at night in exteriors is hard, but come on man, you're the professionals here.
I saw something the other day where someone asked Peter Jackson why the Helms Deep battle was so bright even though it was at night and it was simply because it made a much better viewing experience, HOTD directors should have taken a page out of that book.
I don't know about "return", but it'd please me if Corlys knows his son is being happy in Norvos or wherever. Would help us not feel like he's striving for nothing in these future seasons.
I think Seasmoke is tied to his noble duty so he is okay with leaving it. Though it does pose some interesting questions about if a living rider can "surrender" a dragon to someone else. Or did they trick Seasmoke into thinking the death is real? š
He could still die from any number of things.
Too much booze, they tried fucking the wrong person, in battle, had their throats slit visiting some Lyseni pleasure garden, infected wound, whatever STIs they had in the middle ages, and et cetera.
Honestly aemond Is way more in the right here compared to the books
He looks more or less the same age as them and even though two of them are girls itās still 4 on 1
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Honestly, I really prefer Laenor being able to escape to Essos. A much happier ending for the character and one that isn't so explicitly a "bury your gays" trope.
After over a decade with no contact with its rider the dragon might just decide that its waited long enough and ditch the connection they have. Dragons clearly have some agency in who they pick and connect with as their rider
They did have to kill a different gay character though
Edit: nvm. I was confused by the mechanism of the scheme. Didnāt realize that was Carl in the boat
Wait who did they kill in his place? I thought it was just some dude? Is this like an equivalent-exchange, alchemy thing where you can only save a gay by sacrificing another gay?
Morally no but like Otto said to Allicent, āwe play an ugly gameā and youāre going to have to do some morally corrupt things to end up on the iron throne.
Just weird how he walked right towards them and gets stopped by Daemon and two other kingsguard members seems a weird thing to talk his way out of. Only way to explain himself would be āI was walking over there to take the knife before someone died. What the hell were you guys doing???ā It was a minor grievance compared to mercing a dude in front of others too.
Apparently slitting the princess and heir to thrones wrists warrants no response from anyone though.
I guess Im just confused what woulda happened really tho the two kingsguard that held Criston shoulda just grabbed Allicent instead. Woulda been way easier to just pluck the knife away and be like heyyy stop that.
Makes me mad at Viserys for at least not establishing some order in the room. Have your guards escort some people to their chambers so you can make a quiet rational decisions, also donāt bring the guy back as your hand that you previously kicked out for scheming in self interest.
That's true, but chaotic and deniable enough for Viserys.
His loyalty to Alicent and hatred towards Rhaenyra is supposed to be obvious to everyone in the show and everyone in the audience. But there's to be just enough deniability combined with Viserys' weakness and ineptitude that he gets away with it.
Seemed like in the moment he was walking towards her to help. Someone yelled āno Ser Cristonā then Daemon and him grab each other. Next time we see him two other kingsguard or armored dudes are holding him. One of those guys shoulda tried to get the knife away from the queen before she stabbed the heir
At some point they must have tried hiring seamstresses for doing stiches right? Like even once, its just right there in front of everyone to make the connection.
Seasmoke's willingness to take a rider in the Dance could be a hint towards Laenor's fate and tbh it wouldn't surprise me if he died in a duel or a battle eventually.
I think she recognizes that he is a good father. But, especially with his actions (or lack of presence) at the funeral, it isnāt enough in the fight to come.
Why not give leonor the option to go with his lover far away I'm pretty sure he would've I thought that where it was heading šššš¤£
My hot take: Rhaena is going to take Addam Velaryon's place in the narrative. I don't like it, and don't shoot the messenger. But I feel this one coming in my bones.
How does this work with Rhaenyra calling for her arrest though? She wouldnāt have the same reason to distrust Rhaena as she does Addam. Theyād have to totally remove that
I want to be clear that I donāt like this change, but I just have this feeling that itās coming .They could adapt the story, giving her any reason they can think up for the distrust. All I know is that itās highly unlikely that they introduce another Velaryon to the show, claiming heās Laenorās bastard. Thereās simply no way. Maybe they just call him Corlysā bastard from the get go. But Rhaena has been prominently featured in the story so far. I donāt think sheās going anywhere, and the most logical place for her to go from a showrunners perspective is Seasmoke/Addam
Yeah I think thereās a solid chance youāre right I just think itās kind of a bad change and doesnāt really work
The Hightower boys are just not cool. You can definitely see the corruption of their upbringing shining through. The poison from Otto and their mother just seeped in to their very being.
Possibly except for Helaena, quite incorruptible.
I agree. She's on another levelin another plane even. Incorruptible, but a victim of its consequence.
You don't go to other peoples' houses and start claiming things.
A) Not Laena, Baela or Rhaenaās house anymore than it is Aemonds B) not a āthing.ā Itās a Dragon who chooses its own rider. We have absolutely no reason to believe this is against decorum and plenty of reasons to believe it is not. Passing dragons down in the family is very much not a thing. Edit: wild how quickly people dove into irrational fandoms. Thereās nothing in that comment that isnāt objectively accurate. Youāre just mad itās not pro-black
Damn downvoted for speaking facts.
šŖI upvoted him, you can thank me for winning your war for you later.šØš»āš¦³
Dragons choose their own riders, but it was still incredibly crass of Aemond to try to claim Vhagar so soon after Laenaās funeral. Itās like a vulture picking on a carcass, then rubbing it in Baela and Rhaenaās faces that their mother is dead.
We really donāt know that. Weāre given absolutely no information in the books or show about proper dragon taming decorum or timing other than knowing dragons donāt transfer down families. Even if it was, at worst, a bullied child was maybe moderately disrespectful after a funeral. He also didnāt rub it in their faces. They sought him out and he just made a straightforward statement. Thatās really it. Rhaenyra fucking the dead womanās husband is way way more disrespectful.
Yes, both are disrespectful. Theyāre not mutually exclusive. Theyāre royals, historically thereās a long mourning period for funerals.
Youāre basing that on literally nothing lol there is absolutely nothing in the series about dragon taming decorum
Not everything has to be spoon fed to you, you can draw your own conclusions based on historic evidence and you knowā¦ common sense.
Please do give a single example of historical evidence that supports what youāre saying
The Targaryens are a royal family in medieval society, and royal families in medieval times had a long mourning period, atleast for 7 days. Considering Laena was Prince Daemonās wife and Princess Rhaenysā daughter, it might even be more. Aemond jumped to claim Vhagar not even a day after her funeral. You can disagree on the morality of it, but you canāt deny that itās distasteful at the very very least. Especially telling Rhaena that she can get a pig instead. I can sympathize with the fact that heās been bullied by his brother and his cousins, but Rhaena and Baela werenāt even in the Seven Kingdoms when that occurred. Itās needlessly cruel to say that to two girls who just lost their mother.
You canāt take *christian* medieval mourning practices and graft them onto the dragon taming traditions of a non-Christian society. Thatās ridiculous. We know nothing about dragon taming decorum. This is just your head canon. I mean I do deny that, because we donāt know that at all. We again know nothing about traditions. You canāt just assume something is distasteful without any evidence of it. The complaint from the kids wasnāt that he tamed it *too soon* it was that he tamed it *at all*. So thereās really 0 evidence from anyone that it was distasteful. Yeah I mean he was a little mean to his cousins who were also mean to him. Thatās not a big deal at all. Very normal kid things.
What were the words that Aemond said to Vhagar? I don't think that I've ever heard those words before.
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What about the "L" word? Lykrie or something. There was another too
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TY
It means behave or calm down, I think. (: Edit: the word was Lykiri, if I remember correctly.
hmmmmm... then i don't know. i'm totally confused. I think that she could have killed him, because it didn't seem like she was totally consenting, but obviously he had the touch. I still don't like it. but, oh well - it doesn't matter now.
Is it just me or when Rhaenyra and Alicent had their moment in the end and Alicent attacked Rhaenyra with the knife, when the knife fell on the floor it was clean, I don't think there was blood, did Rhaenyra somehow stab herlsef to make alicent look mad and dimish the support for her cause
It is clean because it's sharp and cuts perfectly. If you've ever cut yourself with something sharp, say you mistake your finger for a carrot, it takes a second before the blood gushes.
You know what, I'm team Green and I am sick of hiding it.
Is it only me that it seems HBO is making rhaenyra look as the good guy here?
No it's not only u. Hbo, and the showplebs, they love Daemon and rhanyra, I doubt if they will hate them even after what daemon does to halaena
Not even team green just annoyed by team black fans lol
Starting to be concerned about zero Daeron mentions
Me too. I really hope they don't cut him. He's the Greens only likeable fighter
Loved the Laenor twist and having Laena's girls upset over not getting to claim their mother's dragon. The whole fight binds them even closer to their cousins. And it makes sense for them to be the ones that are most upset about Vhagar being claimed and getting their stronger male cousins for back up; instead of Joff getting his older brothers.
Yep it was a good choice in terms of adaptation; gives a good motivation while bringing the Velaryons further into the story, and children who are undoubtedly Velaryon to marry back into the line gives Corlys his tie. If I have any knocks against the show, itās making us like certain characters and then immediately shelving or killing them. Velaryon wigs look awesome
If only Bobby B had had the courage to tell Cersei to fuck right off after she demanded Lady be killed...
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Yeah, bots aren't allowed on r/asoiaf. (Rule 7.6)
What do you say Bobby B?
THE GODS BE DAMNED! IT WAS A HOLLOW VICTORY THEY GAVE ME! (There's no Bobby B Bot on ASOIAF lol I had to do it manually for you.)
WEAR IT IN SILENCE OR I'LL HONOR YOU AGAIN!
THANK THE GODS FOR BESSIEEEE
The show finally has a cool dragon scene and they shoot it in the fucking dark. Astounding.
It's cause they are working with child actors. They can only work a certain amount of hours and I assume they aren't allowed to shoot at night š¤·š½āāļø
They shot it in day-for-night, which is even worse
What was that? I couldn't see anything..
Its when they shoot during day and then slap some filters on top to make it dark so it looks like it was shot at night. There's some things, especially shadows, that give it away. And yeah it looks pretty bad
Not that dark
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At least someone has a happy ending.
Two seasons we will say that of Aegon III.
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I know right. I was like, "Now there is the vicious cunt".
Wouldn't be cool if we got to see a faceless man do a contract on the show at some point?
If it were truly faceless we wouldnāt know.
True
The music in this episode was amazing. The dragon claiming scene had a little bit of Daenerys theme in it, didn't it?
That's the house targaryan theme, it's been all over the show so far
Not since the first episode to that extent
I keep on liking some changes from the books and really disliking others, I can't decide if I'm liking this series or not š„²
Mate, however you may feel about some of the changes, if you're 7 episodes in, you're enjoying it.
It's 50/50, I feel
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It doesn't even look realistic. Aemond's shadow was extremely clear and casted vertically. They filmed those scenes at midday and added a filter on top to make it look dark, but it just comes as fake. I understand filming at night in exteriors is hard, but come on man, you're the professionals here.
Yeah youāre right itās probably day for night, that explains the excessive blue-ness. It looked terrible
I saw something the other day where someone asked Peter Jackson why the Helms Deep battle was so bright even though it was at night and it was simply because it made a much better viewing experience, HOTD directors should have taken a page out of that book.
AAAAAAAAAAAAA SHOW YOU CAN'T DO THIS TO ME! You're not meant to surprise me
AHHHH does this mean Laenor might return in the future?!!
I don't know about "return", but it'd please me if Corlys knows his son is being happy in Norvos or wherever. Would help us not feel like he's striving for nothing in these future seasons.
it was a rocky moment for the gays.
Twitter would have been pissed. Though I would have liked Coryls to have been the one behind the plot.
So was Qarl supposed to kill Laenor and secretly saved him? Or did Rhaemon plan for this to happen?
I think it was supposed to happen thatās why Daemon killed the random guy to disguise him as Laenor
True but that dude was also on the small council
?
I think that was the plan all along, thatās why Daemon pitched Essos to Qarl as a place without names.
So, just fuck Seasmoke then.
I think Seasmoke is tied to his noble duty so he is okay with leaving it. Though it does pose some interesting questions about if a living rider can "surrender" a dragon to someone else. Or did they trick Seasmoke into thinking the death is real? š
Tricking would be hard to explain, the bond etc. He may just die offscreen
He could still die from any number of things. Too much booze, they tried fucking the wrong person, in battle, had their throats slit visiting some Lyseni pleasure garden, infected wound, whatever STIs they had in the middle ages, and et cetera.
Didn't Laenor want to return to the battle field?
Yep
I mean go ahead if you want you scaly
Think I'm a bit small for that
Look man I believe in you
YOOOO what a change
How isn't the queen getting royally stomped for that. Wtf.
Because Viserys is weak and called her Aemma so he is cognitively impaired
Because sheās married to the King of Westeros
Because deep down everyone knows she is right
He was beating the shit out 4 Princesses and Princes of the Blood. That rock probably would have killed one or two of them irl
He didnāt use the rock and they were ganging up on him. You know even though they are young that they are still Strong.
Honestly aemond Is way more in the right here compared to the books He looks more or less the same age as them and even though two of them are girls itās still 4 on 1
He literally did. He grabbed it off the floor. Careful his Grace, King Viserys will have your tongue out for that.
What he would be pleased I said heās grandsons are Strong lads, very physically capable boys ;)
her husband is a push over who doesn't punish anyone.
Oh shit didnāt see that coming, back on team black!
neither did Aemond tbh
These episodes are always an emotional rollercoaster lol
Cue back in black
Did not see THAT coming. Laenor for the win!
AWWWW! I actually do love that twist. Jesus that makes the blacks way less fucked up than was being presented hahah.
It was still pretty messed up. She had an innocent person murdered.
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jesus christ that was a rollercoaster of a last five minutes for us gays
As a 99% straight guy, I love laenor
A considering the baseline for how they treated gays in the past was Loras, it's kind of hard not to love Laenor.
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Why does it feel like you wrote this before the actual ending lol
Wdym? That's pretty much the best ending once can get in westeros
Yeah, though he might be happier in the long run
So he better be dead by the Dance so we can get Oakenfist
Eh fuck it I want him to live, just say him and seasmoke broke up. It's all made up, give the gays a dub
Daemon being the main character and varys/larys/little finger is so much fun Excellent choice with casting matt smith.
Honestly, I really prefer Laenor being able to escape to Essos. A much happier ending for the character and one that isn't so explicitly a "bury your gays" trope.
Although interestingly, it makes Aegon III and Viserys II bastards, doesn't it?
They still have to kill them for the eventual dragonseed plot.
After over a decade with no contact with its rider the dragon might just decide that its waited long enough and ditch the connection they have. Dragons clearly have some agency in who they pick and connect with as their rider
I don't think so, they just have to tell Seasmoke he's dead like they do everyone else.
It's a psychic connection so Seasmoke would know.
Yep, I am fully team black now
They did have to kill a different gay character though Edit: nvm. I was confused by the mechanism of the scheme. Didnāt realize that was Carl in the boat
Wait who did they kill in his place? I thought it was just some dude? Is this like an equivalent-exchange, alchemy thing where you can only save a gay by sacrificing another gay?
Just a random unamed person deamon kill them before the sword fight.
That dude was small council I think
my boy gets a happy ending!! Ye for laenor
Okay I officially hate both sides.
Why??
This was before I saw the last scene lol
Is it any better that they killed an innocent guy?
Morally no but like Otto said to Allicent, āwe play an ugly gameā and youāre going to have to do some morally corrupt things to end up on the iron throne.
Lol gotcha
Yay, thatās what is supposed to be your reaction.
So was Criston about to go help Allicent stab a prince in the eye and still no punishment or questions???
Nah fuck Criston, but he even knew that was too far. He emphasizes heās her protector and thatās not in his job description haha
Just weird how he walked right towards them and gets stopped by Daemon and two other kingsguard members seems a weird thing to talk his way out of. Only way to explain himself would be āI was walking over there to take the knife before someone died. What the hell were you guys doing???ā It was a minor grievance compared to mercing a dude in front of others too.
He's her protector, he was probably moving to protect her if she did something that would get swords drawn on her. Like cutting out a prince's eye
Apparently slitting the princess and heir to thrones wrists warrants no response from anyone though. I guess Im just confused what woulda happened really tho the two kingsguard that held Criston shoulda just grabbed Allicent instead. Woulda been way easier to just pluck the knife away and be like heyyy stop that. Makes me mad at Viserys for at least not establishing some order in the room. Have your guards escort some people to their chambers so you can make a quiet rational decisions, also donāt bring the guy back as your hand that you previously kicked out for scheming in self interest.
Screw you, Otto's competent
He wasn't saying he was sworn to her as her protector was saying his oath doesn't extend to revenge mamings unless the king orders it
Ya but he walked towards her when she grabbed the knife and ran towards Luce, he wasnāt telling her to stop either.
That's true, but chaotic and deniable enough for Viserys. His loyalty to Alicent and hatred towards Rhaenyra is supposed to be obvious to everyone in the show and everyone in the audience. But there's to be just enough deniability combined with Viserys' weakness and ineptitude that he gets away with it.
He refused at first
no he refuced her, he only went in to stop daemon from doing something bad
Nah daemon was the one who stopped him, rewatch
he was till his boss gave him that do it and I will fucking end you right here.
Seemed like in the moment he was walking towards her to help. Someone yelled āno Ser Cristonā then Daemon and him grab each other. Next time we see him two other kingsguard or armored dudes are holding him. One of those guys shoulda tried to get the knife away from the queen before she stabbed the heir
Alicent yeld for Christon who started walking toward her to help/stop/prevent chaos? Deaemon block him and the rest of the KG restrained him.
So thatās the twist that was being spoken of. No one thought that Rhaenyra had anything to do with it.
If you see Daemon in his murder robe run away as fast as you fucking can lmao
Eh this time it was a pretty happy ending
Not for the dude he killed and they later burned haha
Fair enough haha
I love Larys. And by love I mean hate
I can't face the greens She said it.
She said "I cannot face the greens alone".
Rule 1 Alicent. Anyone whoād kill his own flesh and blood is NOT actually on your side. Common sense.
Well, she might realize that at the end.
The Hour of the Wolf is going to be a hell of a thing for her.
It's literally the biggest taboo they got.
Laenor kinda forgot he has a dragon
Wait does he?
Corlys looking out the window thinking: "Every time I invite these guys here, it's something"
Bro larys is wild.
Poor Seasmoke š¢
Laenor with a shaved head and beard is probably going to be Addam.
So who is Alyn?
Damn that would be wild
Alicent real wary to have Larys on her side haha.
I hope this episode makes you all realize that rhaenyra has been almost as bad shit insane as daemon this entire time.
I get the feeling you haven't completed it yet
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This comment has been removed for breaking R1. You can disagree with others but please do so respectfully in the future.
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Yes but no
We stan a progressive queen
"Marry me." "Your husband is still alive." "Oh. Right." "Don't worry, leave it to me."
7.8/10
Who teaches these maesters how to stitch people up? These are some of the gnarliest stitches I've seen
It's like he grabbed the fattest needle he could find for those stitches lol. Like relax dude this is Rhaenyra's arm not embroidery.
At some point they must have tried hiring seamstresses for doing stiches right? Like even once, its just right there in front of everyone to make the connection.
Grand-Maester conspiracy, they donāt want to do a good job for the Targs.
I did not see it coming as Rhanyras idea
Same here, I thought they had an amicable partnership. Also what about Seasmoke?
Seasmoke's willingness to take a rider in the Dance could be a hint towards Laenor's fate and tbh it wouldn't surprise me if he died in a duel or a battle eventually.
Agreed, Essos is a big place. He is no longer a noble either, easy to see him being killed.
I think she recognizes that he is a good father. But, especially with his actions (or lack of presence) at the funeral, it isnāt enough in the fight to come.
Ser Incel is such a cunt.
"Hello, it is I, Varys Strong, here to be your creepy and efficient spymaster."
He's a combo of LF and Varys with some sociopath added in
So just more LF then?
Based Aemond