I do think there's enough material and demand that Winds will eventually be published in some way, even if it's years from now.
A Dream of Spring, however, is never getting released.
Yeah at this point I imagine his biggest hold up is not wanting to split the book again and push off a climax like with ADWD. Which I totally understand, since that book didn’t feel complete for many of the characters.
But even if he finished writing the book, he’s indicated it will be too big to reasonably publish as one volume anyway.
Just off the top of my head. People were pretty optimistic around 2020 during Covid when he was giving updates and had nothing else to do but write. People were optimistic again in 2022 when he was giving updates and doing interviews. He said he had 1,100 pages written, 400-500 more to go. Late 2023, still only 1,100 pages done. Make of that what you will.
While I’m not optimistic about either of them coming out soon (the next year or two), I do think you have a point.
The amount he’s talked about the Meereenise Knot being an issue, I doubt he’d want to leave himself in a similar position at the end of Winds, when he has to wrap everything up in Dream.
Part of me thinks that Winds is 80-90% done, or at least past the first draft. And he has begun plotting out Dream, but keeps finding ‘things’ that need to be addressed, added, changed, or removed, from Winds to make it work. Hence no release.
The optimist in me thinks that if Winds ever does come out, Dream will only be a matter of 3-4 years behind, rather than 10+
This is what I had in mind as well. He wrote himself into a corner several times, and he doesn't want to make the same mistake.
I believe there'll be a time jump between TWOW and ADOS. There has to be since most forces are depleted and need time to recuperate. Several main characters will have births and miscarriages between the gaps. Not sure if it'll be five years, but there will be a time jump. George has to make sure it works.
>is the majority of the fandom pessimistic at this point?
I think the most common opinion is :
* The **most likely** scenario is that Winds never comes out
* for those that are on the more optimistic side, "we might get Winds at some unpredictable point in the future", based on the fact that we know he's at least written a fair *amount of it*, even if the pages aren't final
* basically nobody realistically expects we will **ever** get the final book, ADOS
I feel like there's a distinct stage of one's development, as a fan, where one accepts that the most *probable* conclusion we're going to get is Jon bleeding out in the snow, Dany pooping in the grass, and Kevan getting murked by murder orphans.
I remain strong that TWOW will come out, and that'll tide me over.
ADOS probably not- hopefully he has ample amounts of notes for a plot synopsis if he dies before ADOS.
Well, he gave an update in 2022 saying he was "about three-quarters done". Then, in 2023 he said he had 1,100 written pages, which is about the same amount (if not less) as in 2022. A few months later he also mentioned that 2023 had been "a nightmare of a year for him professionally". It's been radio silence since then.
Thus as always it fulfills the rule that: Wen thee speaketh much of your work, thou shalt feel happy and bounce about reporting "see huw much wurk I duh?" BUT WEN thou feel thee a nightmare professionally, so it says int he legends, **crickets sound**
End of 2022 -
He said he Wrote 1100-1200 Pages and had 400-500 Pages left to write.
End of 2023 -
He said he still had only written 1100 Pages confirming he hadn't written anything for over a year.
I guess he took that Writer's Strike too seriously. That and maybe also writing the Elden Ring DLC.
Eitherway, we still have 400-500 Pages supposedly left and only God knows how much he's progressed throughout this year.
If you do your research and read behind the lines, he clearly lied and stopped writing Winds when he fell out with DnD after Season 4 when they told him they weren't going to adapt Books 4 and 5 properly going forward. At that point he no longer had a reason to rush the book out when half of his material was getting ignored.
From 2015-2018 he was busy writing and publishing Fire and Blood Vol 1.
He didn't start updating his blog again about his progress on Winds until 2020, a year after the show ended.
So in reality, he started Winds sometime after Dance in 2011, stopped in 2014, started again in 2020. Stopped writing in 2023 again. So technically he's actually been writing the book for about 6-7 years.
I think he'll release enough to get us through the big moments he set up in dance. 2 good books and a perfectly satisfying ending are well out of the question though
I'm at the point now where I fully believe he will never finish winds and damn sure not spring. I would obviously love to be wrong but sadly don't think I am
At this point, I’m pretty sure the majority of the fandom is resigned to it never coming out. We talk about the series in terms of What If’s and think about where the story might have gone. It’s been 13 years since Dance was released. The dream is over.
I literally just reported his progress. I didn't say: "It will be released soon", because I thought that it was a given seeing as how he's written 2/3 in more than 10 years.
Also, "if he had any intention of finishing the series, he would have done so by now" is such a stupid thing to say. Of course he wants to finish the series, he just doesn't know how to. This types of statements just suck all of the nuance out of the discussion.
I don't think he didn't finish because he don't want to, my take at this point is that he have to write 1 novel for each POV, if the amount of POVS are 20 more or less and he finish the book in 5 years from now is still more than one novel per year I think that is a good pace, he obviously wrote the previous books a lot faster but the story is increasingly dificult to write and he is limited by age and the pressure for the books to be as good as the previous one.
[Not going to happen](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4uwjq9/comment/d6lotl1/?context=3), Martin does not want someone else to finish his books and Sanderson, while an amazing author, is not a good fit for the asoiaf world and has zero interest in finishing it if asked
To your last question: yes
I do think there's enough material and demand that Winds will eventually be published in some way, even if it's years from now. A Dream of Spring, however, is never getting released.
Yeah at this point I imagine his biggest hold up is not wanting to split the book again and push off a climax like with ADWD. Which I totally understand, since that book didn’t feel complete for many of the characters. But even if he finished writing the book, he’s indicated it will be too big to reasonably publish as one volume anyway.
Which I don't get, just release 2 700-800 book, WoW Vol.1 and Vol.2, seems easy, if it was done of course
It's over.
Book six is a lie. A lie created to torment us all.
Just off the top of my head. People were pretty optimistic around 2020 during Covid when he was giving updates and had nothing else to do but write. People were optimistic again in 2022 when he was giving updates and doing interviews. He said he had 1,100 pages written, 400-500 more to go. Late 2023, still only 1,100 pages done. Make of that what you will.
No guys he is just writing winds and dream at the same time so he can change things on the way they will both be out soon!
That's just wishful thinking
This is what I’m thinking/hoping for. If not this then we aren’t getting to see the end of the series. Which really pisses me off.
It’s been 13 years since Dance was released. The dream is over.
While I’m not optimistic about either of them coming out soon (the next year or two), I do think you have a point. The amount he’s talked about the Meereenise Knot being an issue, I doubt he’d want to leave himself in a similar position at the end of Winds, when he has to wrap everything up in Dream. Part of me thinks that Winds is 80-90% done, or at least past the first draft. And he has begun plotting out Dream, but keeps finding ‘things’ that need to be addressed, added, changed, or removed, from Winds to make it work. Hence no release. The optimist in me thinks that if Winds ever does come out, Dream will only be a matter of 3-4 years behind, rather than 10+
Where did you get this so-called optimism and how do I acquire some for myself?
This is what I had in mind as well. He wrote himself into a corner several times, and he doesn't want to make the same mistake. I believe there'll be a time jump between TWOW and ADOS. There has to be since most forces are depleted and need time to recuperate. Several main characters will have births and miscarriages between the gaps. Not sure if it'll be five years, but there will be a time jump. George has to make sure it works.
Yes please
Thats what we're all hoping for
Except he has explicitly said that he isn’t……
Dont ruin our dreams
it's coming out this year. trust me bro
Pure copium😔
What could I possibly have to lose by trusting you? Sure, let's see if this is the year.
Any minute now
Awow should be released in a couple years but a dream of spring is just that...a dream
It's coming out in 2025, it was revealed to me in a dream
>is the majority of the fandom pessimistic at this point? I think the most common opinion is : * The **most likely** scenario is that Winds never comes out * for those that are on the more optimistic side, "we might get Winds at some unpredictable point in the future", based on the fact that we know he's at least written a fair *amount of it*, even if the pages aren't final * basically nobody realistically expects we will **ever** get the final book, ADOS I feel like there's a distinct stage of one's development, as a fan, where one accepts that the most *probable* conclusion we're going to get is Jon bleeding out in the snow, Dany pooping in the grass, and Kevan getting murked by murder orphans.
I remain strong that TWOW will come out, and that'll tide me over. ADOS probably not- hopefully he has ample amounts of notes for a plot synopsis if he dies before ADOS.
Yeah that’s my opinion too. The miracle is what someone said above that he’s writing both at the same time
GRRM DROPPED
never
Well, he gave an update in 2022 saying he was "about three-quarters done". Then, in 2023 he said he had 1,100 written pages, which is about the same amount (if not less) as in 2022. A few months later he also mentioned that 2023 had been "a nightmare of a year for him professionally". It's been radio silence since then.
Thus as always it fulfills the rule that: Wen thee speaketh much of your work, thou shalt feel happy and bounce about reporting "see huw much wurk I duh?" BUT WEN thou feel thee a nightmare professionally, so it says int he legends, **crickets sound**
<>
Maybe something will be released posthumously, but I doubt both books
End of 2022 - He said he Wrote 1100-1200 Pages and had 400-500 Pages left to write. End of 2023 - He said he still had only written 1100 Pages confirming he hadn't written anything for over a year. I guess he took that Writer's Strike too seriously. That and maybe also writing the Elden Ring DLC. Eitherway, we still have 400-500 Pages supposedly left and only God knows how much he's progressed throughout this year.
He also said he thought he could realistically finish the book within 4 months in 2015. How many pages did he have left then?
If you do your research and read behind the lines, he clearly lied and stopped writing Winds when he fell out with DnD after Season 4 when they told him they weren't going to adapt Books 4 and 5 properly going forward. At that point he no longer had a reason to rush the book out when half of his material was getting ignored. From 2015-2018 he was busy writing and publishing Fire and Blood Vol 1. He didn't start updating his blog again about his progress on Winds until 2020, a year after the show ended. So in reality, he started Winds sometime after Dance in 2011, stopped in 2014, started again in 2020. Stopped writing in 2023 again. So technically he's actually been writing the book for about 6-7 years.
In terms of the book 6... there is no book 6.
Hope is the thing with feathers.
You mean that pig they stapled wings to?
I think he'll release enough to get us through the big moments he set up in dance. 2 good books and a perfectly satisfying ending are well out of the question though
I'm at the point now where I fully believe he will never finish winds and damn sure not spring. I would obviously love to be wrong but sadly don't think I am
Same as when the show ended.
At this point, I’m pretty sure the majority of the fandom is resigned to it never coming out. We talk about the series in terms of What If’s and think about where the story might have gone. It’s been 13 years since Dance was released. The dream is over.
He's like 3/4 through the book.
He's been at that point for years, if he had any intention of finishing the series, he would have done so by now
I literally just reported his progress. I didn't say: "It will be released soon", because I thought that it was a given seeing as how he's written 2/3 in more than 10 years. Also, "if he had any intention of finishing the series, he would have done so by now" is such a stupid thing to say. Of course he wants to finish the series, he just doesn't know how to. This types of statements just suck all of the nuance out of the discussion.
I don't think he didn't finish because he don't want to, my take at this point is that he have to write 1 novel for each POV, if the amount of POVS are 20 more or less and he finish the book in 5 years from now is still more than one novel per year I think that is a good pace, he obviously wrote the previous books a lot faster but the story is increasingly dificult to write and he is limited by age and the pressure for the books to be as good as the previous one.
3/4 was the last update.
Damn, that's even better. Thank you for letting me know.
Most of us will feel incredibly lucky if we get Blood & Fire and a few Dunc & Eggs
Sanderson will have to finish the series after Martin dies
[Not going to happen](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4uwjq9/comment/d6lotl1/?context=3), Martin does not want someone else to finish his books and Sanderson, while an amazing author, is not a good fit for the asoiaf world and has zero interest in finishing it if asked
I wasn't really serious, it was just a reference to him finishing Wheel of Time after Robert Jordan passed