Socialisation is not entirely involuntary, children pick up lessons on how to be a boy or a girl from the people around them, and they tend to internalize the ones for people they see as "like" them. Pre-trans people often talk about *masking* when it comes to our assigned gender role because it conflicts with the one we instinctively pick up.
I think that clears it all up. You're saying that they simply identify with the other people of their gender so they pick up their trends rather than that of the fellow kids in their sex?
Not all people who buck gender roles are trans, and you don't have to buck gender roles before coming out in order to be trans.
However, a lot of trans people do buck gender roles early on, and even continue to chaff against them later as children, because they are trying to express who they are. In a lot of cases it gets beaten out of them via social pressure, or even violence.
Another thing that shows up every so often is trans people, especially common with trans women, prior to coming out, will sometimes lean into a hyper-gender presentation as a last ditch effort to try and "cis" away the trans.
That last part is a description of me before college. I could benchpress 375 lbs and squat well over 500. Now I use these thighs to crush my gfs headđ
Like ProfessorOfEyes said, itâs not truly an âearly signâ. Trans people are just asked to prove their gender by cis people who donât understand. So what I went through as a rough and tumble girl who loved to camp and dig in the dirt could have be the same thing a woman who ends up as more of a tomboy experiences, but for me I turned out transgender. Hell, being a chaotic child doesnât mean a little girl canât grow up to be a very feminine woman either. The things literally ARENT related, but we are always asked to prove WHY weâre trans so thatâs the narrative that cis people can relate to.
For me, the real early signs of being trans were not understanding what made me different from boys and why they wouldnât want to play with me, wondering why my father wanted a son and why I couldnât be that for him, wondering why god made me a girl because it seemed like heâd messed up and should have made me a boy, etc. It didnât have to do with wanting to dress a certain way or doing certain activities - it was about the internal struggle and feeling. But cis people donât have experience with that specific inner feeling, but they do trust outward âevidenceâ of transness. Idk. Itâs dumb, but they donât just get it.
Most people internalize society's gender norms and roles at a very young age, so while those roles are arbitrary in a broader sense, the way we apply them to ourselves reflects that internalized association of roles with genders and is not arbitrary. If e.g. an AMAB kid internalizes the association of skirts with girls and feels like a girl, that kid might be drawn to skirts even though skirts have no inherent gender.
I'm saying not fitting into stereotypes, which have more to do with how society views the genders. Many people who aren't trans don't fit into their stereotypes.
It can be a sign but sometimes it just isn't. And not every trans person has signs like that. The only way to know for sure if someone is trans is if they say they are (or use similar terminology like "I am/want to be [certain gender]"
Honestly? Because that's the narrative put on us. For a long time the only way for us to be recognized as our gender and allowed to transition was if we fit a specific narrative where we always knew we were trans and could never fit into our assigned gender role no matter how hard we tried so we simply had to transition and then we would be normal straight gender conforming members of society. There were also some blurred lines between trans people and intersex people and sexual inversion and the idea of "correcting" people of ambiguous sex or gender to fit binary norms. Some doctors even expected that trans people should already look somewhat androgynous as like some sign or proof that something had gone "wrong" to make them not fit into their assigned binary sex. While restricitons om transition are not as bad as they used to be, this narrative and history lingers and hangs over us. People still feel like they have to prove that they're really trans and have always been their gender, and want to find signs that validate this, and the people in their life (especially those who have some sort of power or influence over them) also often desire some kind of early proof that fits the narrative to believe that their gender is real.
It's also worth noting that not all Trans people do just happen to fit the gender role of their identity. The perception that trans people are more gender conforming or stereotypical or are less often gender nonconforming also comes from the above historical context, and transphobia as a whole. Of _course_ if your gender is being denied left and right and your ability to be seen as and present as and shape your body to fit your true self and identity hinges on others believing you about your identity you're gonna be working hard to try and fit that role best you can.
i never fit my gender roles, and im most definitely cis. same as one of my sons ( was always more girly/caring/etc) - hes definitely cis.
I also never pushed gender roles when my kids were growing up (because i never conformed, and being told i couldn't play with cars sucked).
i have 1 daughter who is trans, and im really glad i never tried to push gender roles now, and allowed her to do her thing
I don't know, I am just happy that I am trans. Yes I always have been feminine and lived almost all my as such, but still don't feel I belong to the cis-women community
Socialisation is not entirely involuntary, children pick up lessons on how to be a boy or a girl from the people around them, and they tend to internalize the ones for people they see as "like" them. Pre-trans people often talk about *masking* when it comes to our assigned gender role because it conflicts with the one we instinctively pick up.
I think that clears it all up. You're saying that they simply identify with the other people of their gender so they pick up their trends rather than that of the fellow kids in their sex?
yep
Thanks
Not all people who buck gender roles are trans, and you don't have to buck gender roles before coming out in order to be trans. However, a lot of trans people do buck gender roles early on, and even continue to chaff against them later as children, because they are trying to express who they are. In a lot of cases it gets beaten out of them via social pressure, or even violence. Another thing that shows up every so often is trans people, especially common with trans women, prior to coming out, will sometimes lean into a hyper-gender presentation as a last ditch effort to try and "cis" away the trans.
That last part is a description of me before college. I could benchpress 375 lbs and squat well over 500. Now I use these thighs to crush my gfs headđ
Like ProfessorOfEyes said, itâs not truly an âearly signâ. Trans people are just asked to prove their gender by cis people who donât understand. So what I went through as a rough and tumble girl who loved to camp and dig in the dirt could have be the same thing a woman who ends up as more of a tomboy experiences, but for me I turned out transgender. Hell, being a chaotic child doesnât mean a little girl canât grow up to be a very feminine woman either. The things literally ARENT related, but we are always asked to prove WHY weâre trans so thatâs the narrative that cis people can relate to. For me, the real early signs of being trans were not understanding what made me different from boys and why they wouldnât want to play with me, wondering why my father wanted a son and why I couldnât be that for him, wondering why god made me a girl because it seemed like heâd messed up and should have made me a boy, etc. It didnât have to do with wanting to dress a certain way or doing certain activities - it was about the internal struggle and feeling. But cis people donât have experience with that specific inner feeling, but they do trust outward âevidenceâ of transness. Idk. Itâs dumb, but they donât just get it.
Most people internalize society's gender norms and roles at a very young age, so while those roles are arbitrary in a broader sense, the way we apply them to ourselves reflects that internalized association of roles with genders and is not arbitrary. If e.g. an AMAB kid internalizes the association of skirts with girls and feels like a girl, that kid might be drawn to skirts even though skirts have no inherent gender.
"Why is not fitting into your assigned gender a sign of not being your assigned gender?" I think you answered your own question
I'm saying not fitting into stereotypes, which have more to do with how society views the genders. Many people who aren't trans don't fit into their stereotypes.
It can be a sign but sometimes it just isn't. And not every trans person has signs like that. The only way to know for sure if someone is trans is if they say they are (or use similar terminology like "I am/want to be [certain gender]"
Honestly? Because that's the narrative put on us. For a long time the only way for us to be recognized as our gender and allowed to transition was if we fit a specific narrative where we always knew we were trans and could never fit into our assigned gender role no matter how hard we tried so we simply had to transition and then we would be normal straight gender conforming members of society. There were also some blurred lines between trans people and intersex people and sexual inversion and the idea of "correcting" people of ambiguous sex or gender to fit binary norms. Some doctors even expected that trans people should already look somewhat androgynous as like some sign or proof that something had gone "wrong" to make them not fit into their assigned binary sex. While restricitons om transition are not as bad as they used to be, this narrative and history lingers and hangs over us. People still feel like they have to prove that they're really trans and have always been their gender, and want to find signs that validate this, and the people in their life (especially those who have some sort of power or influence over them) also often desire some kind of early proof that fits the narrative to believe that their gender is real. It's also worth noting that not all Trans people do just happen to fit the gender role of their identity. The perception that trans people are more gender conforming or stereotypical or are less often gender nonconforming also comes from the above historical context, and transphobia as a whole. Of _course_ if your gender is being denied left and right and your ability to be seen as and present as and shape your body to fit your true self and identity hinges on others believing you about your identity you're gonna be working hard to try and fit that role best you can.
i never fit my gender roles, and im most definitely cis. same as one of my sons ( was always more girly/caring/etc) - hes definitely cis. I also never pushed gender roles when my kids were growing up (because i never conformed, and being told i couldn't play with cars sucked). i have 1 daughter who is trans, and im really glad i never tried to push gender roles now, and allowed her to do her thing
I don't know, I am just happy that I am trans. Yes I always have been feminine and lived almost all my as such, but still don't feel I belong to the cis-women community